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 The debate between Paul Ryan, left, and Joe Biden marks the first time two Catholic vice presidential nominees are facing off.
October 11th, 2012
12:27 PM ET
Obama camp, liberal groups use VP debate to organize Catholic votersBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) – As it organizes Catholic watch parties for Thursday night’s debate between Joe Biden and Paul Ryan, who are both Roman Catholic, the Obama campaign hasn’t been shy about suggesting that the GOP vice presidential nominee hasn’t lived up to his Catholic values. “For Catholic outreach, a defining moment in this campaign has been (Mitt) Romney’s selection of Paul Ryan as his running mate,” said Broderick Johnson, a senior adviser with Barack Obama’s campaign who spearheads Catholic outreach efforts. “The Ryan budget has entered into quite a debate, particularly among Catholics, in terms of the moral test and what is in that budget and what the budget proposes to slash.” Johnson is referring to the proposed budget that Ryan crafted in his role as chairman of the House Budget Committee, which was roundly criticized by many Catholic interests – including by the Catholic bishops – for cutting programs that help the poor. The Obama camp hopes the debate will provide an opportunity to reprise such Catholic criticisms of Ryan. “The vice presidential debate will be a significant event and will provide a strong contrast on how these two men from the same faith come to two different visions for the country,” said Michael Wear, Obama's national faith vote coordinator. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter For a party that has often been accused of insufficient piety by its Republican and conservative opponents, Democrats' implications that the GOP vice presidential nominee has fallen short of his Catholic faith are a dramatic turnabout. And it’s not the only way the Obama campaign and liberal groups are using Thursday’s debate to organize Catholic voters, one of the country’s big swing voting constituencies. Beyond encouraging Catholic watch parties, the Obama campaign has been visiting Catholic colleges in swing states and dispatching Catholic campaign surrogates to address Catholic groups in the leadup to the debate. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories “Every time I see the president, we talk about how Catholic outreach is going,” Johnson said. “He’s very interested in that, and it makes my job more meaningful.” Left-leaning Catholic groups that aren’t officially connected to the Obama campaign have been even more vocal in attacking Ryan from a Catholic perspective. “Some of his positions are fundamentally at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church,” said a Ryan critique issued this week by dozens of Catholic theologians and other Catholic scholars. The organizers of the statement, part of a group called On All of Our Shoulders, said that while Catholic politicians who support abortion rights are often called out for their differences with their church, “Catholic Republicans who dissent from church teaching on issues such as torture, war, the environment and the economy receive far less scrutiny.” With Ryan, progressive Catholic groups have taken particular aim his proposed budget, which passed the House but not the Senate. A letter to Ryan from faculty at Georgetown, a Catholic university, summed up the Catholic opposition to the proposal: “We would be remiss in our duty to you and our students if we did not challenge your continuing misuse of Catholic teaching to defend a budget plan that decimates food programs for struggling families, radically weakens protections for the elderly and sick, and gives more tax breaks to the wealthiest few.” This year, a group of progressive nuns organized a “nuns on the bus tour” to decry what it called the Ryan budget’s “slashing of programs for the poor.” This week, the nuns reprised the tour, criss-crossing Ohio just in time for the vice presidential debate. “He clearly has not been where I’ve been," Simon Campbell, an organizer of the tour, told MSNBC of Ryan. “He just is out of touch.” A progressive group called Catholics United is organizing watch parties for the debate, noting in an e-mail blast to supporters that the event marks the first time two Catholics vying for the White House are facing off. “This election is coming down to the wire and the Catholic vote will certainly play an important role in determining who will win,” the group said. The Romney campaign, like the Obama campaign, has rolled out a Catholic outreach effort. And Ryan has invoked his Catholic faith on the campaign trail after defending his budget in distinctly Catholic terms earlier in the year. “The work I do, as a Catholic holding office, conforms to the social doctrine as best I can make of it,” Ryan said in an April speech at Georgetown in which he responded to criticism of his budget. Ryan has promoted the Catholic idea of “subsidiarity,” which he says means that “the government closest to the people governs best” and which he says informs his budget proposal. When Romney introduced Paul as his running mate over the summer, the Republican presidential hopeful called him “a faithful Catholic” who “believes in the worth and dignity of every human life.” About one in four American voters is Catholic, though there is such a broad range in Catholic political concerns and voting habits that many political experts reject the notion of a cohesive Catholic bloc. Catholics have voted with the winning presidential candidate in every election since the early 1990s. In 2008, Obama beat John McCain among Catholics by 54% to 45%. In 2004, John Kerry – the first Catholic nominee for president since John F. Kennedy – lost the Catholic vote to George W. Bush, provoking Democrats to take Catholic outreach more seriously. Both major parties had America’s highest-profile Catholic cleric, New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, give the closing prayer at their recent political conventions. –CNN’s Dan Merica contributed to this report.
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Biden is about to be kicked to the curb beside his evil master. Romney / Ryan 2012
The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:
"Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
"truth be told" degenerates to:
"Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
"Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
"tina" degenerates to:
"captain america" degenerates to:
"just sayin" degenerates to:
"nope" degenerates to:
"WOW" degenerates to:
"!" degenerates to:
"pervert alert" or "...." where he writes such lovely posts as "QUE ERS THE ONES WHO GAVE AIDS TO AMERICA"
and many other names, but of course I prefer to refer to this h0mophobe as
the disgruntled Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. writer's boot camp "flunkie".
Catholics are vile devil worshiping cretins.
They worship 'Mary' and 'Saints' like Idols.That is NOT HOW to do it.
the POPE is nothing but the anti-CHRIST,who claims to speak for JESUS.HAH!!! That can't be.
These Catholics are terrible pagans.
Also,I forgot to add:
Remember when Moses worshipped a Golden Cow? How'd that turn out?
Since it's a fairy-tale, who gives a crap?
Moses never worshipped the Golden Calf, Jesus boy. It was made while he was gone for the Israelites, and Moses was angry abouot it when he returned.
Prayer changes things
Curb your God.
@hiscur...
nope
nope to nope
I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. The degree to which your assertions may represent truths is 0.0. To help you understand the degree to which your assertions may represent truths, I will access my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE). Using my IEE module, the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
@snoops
nope
Hi Prayerbot.
Yes we all saw how well it worked for Bachman and Santorum
NO Bidne is NOT a Catholic. He is for abortion and contraceptives so he is not a Catholic.
And so Ann, do you live in a closet surrounded by highly fragranced soaps and fresh linens?
Biden is my kind of Catholic–one who care about people at all stages of life. Ryan is the paternalistic one who believes he should make our decisions for us, especially if we are women, who he seems to think should be controlled by men. I also prefer Biden as a human being, because he tells the truth. Ryan probably thinks being fooled by people like him is for our own good. Ryan is slick and fast-talking enough to do well in a debate, though. I suspect Biden is too nice, honest and easy-going to stick it to Ryan when he lies.
Wow are you delusional
No one should ever uphold a sense of reverence toward politicians as they would for bishops or priest, or even alter boys. If you do, then you need a serious overhaul in your belief system and how that may translate in whom you would vote.
Biden is the same kind of Catholic as Kennedy. A pro-abortionist without any real true values.
Willie, stop listening to Faux News so much. And tuck that willie away, this is a family forum.
Willie–Kennedy ran on pro-life and tax cuts so get your facts straight before mouthing off.
Yes, it would have been SO MUCH BETTER to elect Nixon instead of Kennedy in 1960.
"Biden is the same kind of Catholic as Kennedy. A pro-abortionist without any real true values."
Gerorge W was a practicing Christian and he didn't have any true values, he lied and caused and unjust war.
So to all you so called Catholics who claim to *know* whether Paul Ryan or Joe Biden is a "true Catholic" ("True Scotsman fallacy by the way) or a "better Catholic", please ask yourselves what gives you the right to do this?
I know the fundies like the old chapter and verse more than Catholics but the words of Jesus are surely relevant here.
Matthew 7:1
""Do not judge others, and you will not be judged."
We are not ordaining a priest here. We need someone to serve the interests of the whole United States – not just Catholics and not certainly not just the richest 1%. This is not a religious discussion and the answer is clear to me.
TV – you can be certain when anyone uses the word "true" as an adjective, BS will follow.
I don't care what religion any of the candidates practice. I care more about their vision, policies and leadership.
@Miss Trixie,
fair enough.
The article isn't about the candidates it's about the voters. The Catholic voters. I can see that my brothers and sisters in Christ have, many of them, read the Formation of Conscience for Faithful Citizenship. This guide encourages all Catholics to engage the politcal process with the understanding of our faith. The issue then arises between Catholics because neither party fully embraces the teachings of the Church on social matters. It matters not one whit whether Ryan or Biden is teh more devout Catholic. What matters is which political party approaches the values Catholics hold in priority. The papal encyclicals detail these priorities clearly
if it hadn't been a headline, it never would have occurred to me what the candidates religious affiliation was.
@snowboarder,
the reason the Dems picked Biden in 2008 and the reason the Reps picked Ryan in 2012 are the same – to pander to Catholic voters in swing states.
The Catholic vote splits right down the middle – very close to 50/50 and close to the nation as a whole. Catholic independents are the perennial swing voters and they exist in large numbers in key swing states with lots of electoral college votes like Pennsylvania and Ohio.
There are two causes for this candidate selection behaviour:
1. The Electoral college
2. The US obsession with religion
The most interesting observation to me is that with the exception of the President*, none of the candidates are Protestant.
* Frankly I would not define Mr. Obama as a particualrly devout or even observant Protestant, particularly compared with the likes of US Rep. Paul Broun (thankfully).
We have two Catholics and a Mormon in a country that has overwhelmingly elected while male Protestant Presidents. This is pretty remarkable. Ironically the choice of the Catholics is purely for election gains.
We had one Catholic President, one non-while President, one Jewish VP candidate and two female VP candidates. James Buchanan might have an interesting distinction in Presidential diversity but we'll never know. His political opponents more than hinted.
24 Hr CC... Thanks for posting all your comments. Obama's list of accomplishments is incredible and makes me extremely confident in supporting him for a 2nd term. And your Romney list is quite succinct. I only hope those with half a brain can see thru the fog and cast an educated vote on election day.
Being a g.a.y USN/USMC vet, I'm delighted to see the advances in equal rights for gays in the military. It's been a long time coming. And we've been there all along throughout history (despite the witch hunts and discrimination), serving proudly behind the scenes, excelling in our careers far beyond many of our straight counterparts, living with war wounds and some of us dying for our country. It's about time we had a Commander in Chief who acknowledged us, our contributions to this nation, and our rights as free citizens.
A+ post
as one veteran to another, thank you for your service.
Web Jock, right on brother and thank you thank you thank you.
Thank you, comrade, for your service.
Observe how abortion is coming to the front of the election issues.
From CNN's home page:
ELECTION CENTER
"O'Brien grills GOP boss on abortion
Romney takes heat for abortion talk"
And why is that? Democrats know how to count votes.
To wit:
Why the Christian Right no longer matters in presidential elections:
Once again, all the conservative votes in the country "ain't" going to help a "pro-life" presidential candidate, i.e Mitt Romney, in 2012 as the "Immoral Majority" rules the country and will be doing so for awhile. The "Immoral Majority" you ask?
The fastest growing USA voting bloc: In 2008, the 70+ million "Roe vs. Wade mothers and fathers" of aborted womb-babies" whose ranks grow by two million per year i.e. 78+ million "IM" voters in 2012.
2008 Presidential popular vote results:
69,456,897 for pro-abortion/choice BO, 59,934,814 for "pro-life" JM.
And the irony:
And all because many women fail to take the Pill once a day or men fail to use a condom even though in most cases these men have them in their pockets. (maybe they should be called the "Stupid Majority"?)
The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the Pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions ( one million/yr) and S-TDs (19 million/yr) in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or condoms properly and/or use other safer birth control methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.
Bottom line: Watching tonight's debate is going to be a waste of your time.
October 11, 2012 at 4:19 pm | Report abuse | Reply
Reality
From CNN's home page:
ELECTION CENTER
"O'Brien grills GOP boss on abortion
Romney takes heat for abortion talk"
Funny but I don't remember the GOP killing babies.
Really? You need to get out more, pimpson.
Before they're born, the GOP cares a lot. After they're born? They're on their own.
The American Catholic Church is nothing but a vote colony for the Democratic Party and has been since the day the Irish got off the ships and Boss Tweed gave them a piece of bread and a nice slum to live in. Then one like Paul Ryan comes along and wants things like (gasp) a balanced national budget, freedom of enterprise, a right to life, and the American Church labels him "immoral".
With friends like these...
And yet, they voted for George W. Bush in 2004. Hmmm, hate much? Don't let facts get in the way of lies.
and P.S...the Kennedy's...a cartel on par with anything their Mexican equivalents have developed. Nothing but a trail of corruption, hypocrisy, drugs, and dead bodies.
You omitted his love of Ayn Rand – that goes down well with the church.
Balanced budget sounds like a good idea but in reality it is too rigid for a government (and most corporations). How would you finance wars (elective or not); how would you finance disaster recovery. Ignoring those issues – a balanced budget would need to account for the massive debt we already have, which the Ryan plan does not.
The Church hasn't "Labeled" Ryan 'immoral'. And in fact, they stand behind his pro-life stance, among many other things.
What the hell does this have to do with running the US Government? Keep the faith of the candidates OUT OF GOVERNMENT. It will only cause issues.
I know....as a Canadian it always stuns me that a candidates religion ever comes up. I have no idea what religion our Prime Minister is, nor should it matter.
Only in the USA is this an issue. In most western nation's elections, advisors will insist, that candidates keep religion OUT of the equation, lest they offend a particular demographic.
Choosing a candidate based on your religions "values" and nothing else is simply reckless and irresponsible. If all you care about is keeping people you will never meet from having abortions, and seeing thousands lose their jobs and homes means nothing to you, you don't deserve to live in this country.
Maybe they don't deserve to live at all, eh? Burn it all down xirume! Burn until there's nothing left to burn.
I agree, but telling everyone your political values are shaped by your faith opens yourself up to be examined and Ryan is about as Catholic and Christian as a piece of cat scat.
Two Catholics inspired by the same God. Anyone see irony here??
Religion. Government. Leave each other alone!
Ok, frist and foremost, Biden is not a very Catholic, Catholic. Essentially the right to life is a value that is held high and as Jesus said: "The poor you will always have". Unfortunte but true. This is a grabbing at straws attempt to give fuel to liberals to see who is most Cathoice ahd why so many Catholics support Obama. Simply put, most Catholics who support Obama are not follwing what they should be and deflect arguements for life by bringing up the poor. Well the poor we will always have and so for those Catholics that think all the progarms will go away when Obama does, it jsut isn't true. We all need to help with community programs and not expect the govenrment to fix it all. Nice try CNN but trying to change the subject is like the Big BIrd attmepts, I assure you that Big BIrd and the Catholic Church will both survive without Obama.
Another post from someone with no concept of what it is to be Catholic and vote in the United States.
Please. Do me and other Catholics a favor and don't speak for us. You don't have a clue!
The catholic church has made out like a bandit for centuries so obviously it will survive regardless of who is president. Are you saying that the church should not fulfill its christian directive to help the poor?
How can any who proclaims to be Catholic vote for any who is for abortion?
Jack – no one, anywhere, is 'for' abortion. Shove your hysterical rhetoric.
So what you are telling me is that Obama has now come out that he was against abortion?
Jack, read my post on the previous page relative to your question about "respecting life". You'll either accept it, or not. Doesn't affect me either way in the least.
Hey bookworm........
If all TRUE Catholics, and for that matter, all TRUE Christians prayed to God for guidance, would they vote for the same person?
Jeff, If I am interpreting your comments correctly, you are saying that the abortion issue is just a part of the equation. I am saying that you have to first HAVE a life in order to have other issues. The church speaks very clearly on the issue of life. That is why I have my stance that in no way can you say you are Catholic if you support abortion. The other issues, if you had to rank them, come after a person is conceived. Life and death is the first question. If you answer, or vote, the wrong way, all other questions are irrelevant.
Please only speak for yourself. Abortion is not the only issue that is considered when making a choice(free will) of whom will receive your vote.
Melanie, IF you are Catholic all other questions would come after that one. You are correct about "free will" but, when a choice is so clearly evident in regards to your faith, what other choice could you make?
Jack,
I don't think that's what I wrote, but if that's your interpretation, so be it. I'll say it again – respecting life is more than protecting fetuses. I did not say I was "pro-abortion" – in fact, what I said was that I support organizations who provide tangible support for those that "choose life" for their unborn children, both financially and with my time.
What I DID say was that I am totally opposed to a theocracy. I am not willing to incorporate the Catholic catechism into law, seeing as how we live side by side with people of other faiths ... just the same as I would not be willing to live under Sharia law or the dictates of Southern baptism.
Given what the "Faithful Citizenship" program says, I have not problem with my voting choice. And like I said, I really couldn't care whether I meet your definition ... or interpretation ... of what it means to be Catholic.
who died and made you god?
Jeff... So using that logic, are you saying that if candidate A supported a law that allowed for the killing of 2 year old kids and candidate B was opposed to that law, you would have to look at other factors in regards to your vote?
Jack, I'm not going to get into a red herring debate with you. That was an absurd comment you made.
First off, abortion is legal in this country. And by the way, did you know that in South America ... where abortion is almost universally illegal ... there is a higher per capita incident of abortion than in Europe, where abortion is almost universally legal? Why do you think that is? It might have to do with education, alternatives and a whole lot of other reasons. One thing's for sure – abortion isn't going down simple because it's against the law! And here we have one party who supposedly is "pro-life" and yet cuts funding for programs that would support a pro-life stance.
From your ridiculous comment, I can tell you're really not interested in having an adult discussion on this. We'll just have to agree to disagree. God bless you. Believe it or not, we both want the same thing. I don't think voting Republican is going to get what we want. But that's why the USCCB told us that neither party fully supports the Church's teachings, isn't it?
Religion does not belong in politics. Our forefathers would be disgraced to find out what was happening in modern times.
Used to be a devote Catholic, but when these hypocrites start turning their drone backs to obvious Christian values, then I was out. How in the name of God, can these fools vote for a mad man like Obama who thinks that it is just fine not only to abort a baby, but abort a live baby and kill it. This is sick, they are sick. I'll stick to praying to the God that knows that is evil, not to the one the Catholics pray to.
You misrepresent Obama's position, but you knew that, right?
I suggest you turn in your uterus right away, we're pulling your woman card
Tell me how I misrepresent Obama's position. He voted "no” on the Illinois Born Alive Infant Protection Act, or BAIPA. You know what that is, right? It's infantiside“, meaning to kill a baby born alive, let it die like an animal. Just one reason he gave was "because 'it' would be a burden on the mothers". Holy cow, how is that misrepresenting evil?
patti, I think it's called infanticide.
Infantiside might be some sort of sugar. I'm not sure.
Yes BAIPA is one of the NRLC attempts to get a challenge against Roe v Wade to the SCOTUS. Obama's reason for not voting for it was just that.
Tell me, what does the NRLC do to protect actual life – you know people actually living. Water safety, food security, drug safety, road safety, gun safety, etc. etc. 10000s of children die daily from starvation, 1500 people die daily from malaria – that's not including other preventable diseases or cancers and other illnesses caused by polluted water.
"Yes BAIPA is one of the NRLC attempts to get a challenge against Roe v Wade to the SCOTUS. Obama's reason for not voting for it was just that."
Folks like pattie don't want to hear crazy facts like that – they would rather just believe the surface crap they're told and get all outraged about it.