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Romney meets with evangelist Billy Graham
Billy Graham has counseled presidents going back to Harry Truman.
October 11th, 2012
04:44 PM ET

Romney meets with evangelist Billy Graham

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) - Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney met with evangelical icon Billy Graham for the first time on Thursday at the evangelist’s remote mountaintop home in North Carolina.

Romney traveled to Graham’s residence in Montreat, just outside Asheville, to meet with Graham and his son Franklin Graham, a high-profile pastor in his own right.

Romney campaign spokesman Rick Gorka told reporters that Romney met with the Grahams for approximately 30 minutes and that they discussed religious freedom, religious persecution and growth of the Grahams’ ministry in China, Sudan and North Korea.

Towards the end of the meeting, according to Gorka, Billy Graham led a prayer for the Romneys, saying "I'll do all I can to help you. And you can quote me on that."

"What impresses me even more than Governor Romney's successful career are his values and strong moral convictions. I appreciate his faithful commitment to his impressive family, particularly his wife Ann of 43 years and his five married sons," Billy Graham said in a statement through a spokesman following the meeting.

"It was a privilege to pray with Governor Romney—for his family and our country. I will turn 94 the day after the upcoming election, and I believe America is at a crossroads. I hope millions of Americans will join me in praying for our nation and to vote for candidates who will support the biblical definition of marriage, protect the sanctity of life and defend our religious freedoms," the evangelist's statement continued.

Graham, 93, has provided counsel to generations of U.S. presidents beginning with Harry S. Truman, and is the founder of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

Staging revivals that he called “crusades” around the world, Graham has reached untold millions of people in person with his message.

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In the United States, his power and reach have transcended partisan politics. He has counseled presidents from both parties and met with President Barack Obama in 2010. Graham was hospitalized for treatment of a pulmonary infection earlier this year.

Romney first met with Franklin Graham, founder of the aid group Samaritan’s Purse, in 2007, when the Mormon White House hopeful was getting know many national evangelical leaders for the first time.

The elder Graham began his missionary work in 1944 when he started speaking at rallies for the Youth for Christ Campus Life ministry. Five years later, Graham was holding crusades in tents in downtown Los Angeles.

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Originally scheduled for three weeks, the crusades drew so many followers they were extended to seven.

His "last crusade" in June 2005 drew 230,000 people.

More recently, Billy Graham has weighed in on hot-button issues, including supporting North Carolina's constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, which voters passed earlier this year. This summer, Graham defended the president of the Chick-fil-A restaurant chain for his opposition to same-sex marriage.

Graham has been in and out of local hospitals this year, battling respiratory issues. The pool reporter following Romney added in their report from the meeting, "Billy Graham's voice sounded somewhat weak but he did not look any more frail than his age would suggest."

CNN's Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: 2012 Election • Mitt Romney • Politics

soundoff (518 Responses)
  1. REASON AND SCIENCE, Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

    hinduism, absurdity of hindu Pharsses, criminal secular, Jew's. They claim to follow GOD, truth absolute, but Deny "HIM" truth absolute by faith.
    REASON AND SIENCE
    More than 2000 years old argument and belief of hindu Pharisee's, criminal self centered, hindu Jew's, criminal secular's, deniers of truth absolute, base of hinduism, corruption of truth absolute called religion's, such as Judaism, hindu Mithra ism, savior ism, labeled as Christianity, Suni ism, Shea ism. etc. As it is stated in book of Mithra ism, Christianity, bible addressed to hindu Pharisees, criminal secular's, YOU DECORATE TOMB'S OF YOU CLAIMED ANCESTORS AND DENY TRUTH ABSOLUTE, TRUTH IS THE ROCK, WHO EVER WILL FALL ON IT, WILL DIE AND WHOM EVER IT WILL FALL ON, WILL DIE. Cause of conflict among humanity. hindu atheism, criminal self center ism, denial of truth absolute GOD, to satisfy hindu soul, filthy desire. way of hindu's, criminals to justify their hinduism, criminality against humanity and truth absolute GOD. To learn fundamentals of conflict, please visit limitisthetruth.com

    October 12, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
  2. Back when Billy was gettin' around a bit more

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuet7GRv7Bo

    October 12, 2012 at 1:06 pm |
  3. N.Shapiro

    B T W, there is no biblical definition of marriage.
    There are many accounts of polygamyamong the patriarchs and others, but n biblical DEFINITION,
    certainly not the "one man-one woman" blasphemers claim
    Surprised at Graham's lie, I am not a fan of his, but I thought better of him.

    October 12, 2012 at 12:24 pm |
    • nojinx

      True, but fathers are required by Deuteronomy to sell their daughters in marriage to their daughter's rap ist for 30 silver pieces if said daughter is rap ed. One of those rare instances of a reverse-dowry.

      So, the bible does provide some guidelines in that matter.

      October 12, 2012 at 12:39 pm |
  4. Doc Vestibule

    Billy Graham once said "Give me five minutes with a person's checkbook, and I will tell you where their heart is."
    I wonder how he feels about the ways in which the LDS spends their money.
    Mormons are told: "if a dest.itute family is faced with the decision of paying their ti.thing or eating, they should pay their t.ithing." (Lynn Robbins, General Conference, April 2005).
    According to the Deseret News Agency, the propaganda arm of the LDS, the Church has spent some $750 million internationally on charitable work between 1984 and 2006.
    They have also spent 4 times that amount (approx $3 BILLION) in ¼ of the time to build a mall in Salt Lake City.
    While the lay clergy and ministers in the LDS are all unpaid volunteers, the upper echelons are handsomly paid.
    Becuase of their tax exempt status, solid figures are hard to come by – but in 1984 the Quorum Of the Twelve were paid in the range of $80 thousand a year for living expenses, excluding benefits. This does not include any money received by business ventures or sitting on the board of directors for other companies. Adjusted for inflation, that equals $177,385 today.
    In addition to the modest salary, the Prophet and his Apostles are given living arrangments.
    Thomas S. Monson, for example, lived in a 24000+ square foot condo estimated at a value of $2.8 million.

    Mr. Graham is likely to find that the Mormon leaders' hearts are more concerned with profit than rightly befits prophets.

    October 12, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
    • Kev

      So, where did you get your figures from?

      October 12, 2012 at 12:25 pm |
    • Jonah

      We love the Lord and are happy to contribute to his kingdom. There are no paid clergy or ministers in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. We serve each other and the Lord out of Love. Mormon bishops do not charge for their service, not even for weddings or blessings or anything. We do not sell the Lord's gospel for money. Mormon missionaries are motivated by love and concern for others. In fact, many of them pay for their missions with their college funds and by selling cars and possessions. They give up girl friends, family, and lucrative sports and entertainment contracts to serve people they don't even know and who are often unpleasant and unkind. These are the hallmarks of the true church, "By their fruits ye shall know them."

      October 12, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • End Religion

      @jonah: "These are the hallmarks of the true church"

      Aside from a "no true scotsman" fallacy, these are the hallmarks of a cult.

      October 14, 2012 at 12:46 am |
  5. mama k

    You know hamburger is messy stuff. I'm willing to bet most people don't even know what goes into it, but they may have heard of some of the things. But if you're looking at uncooked "fresh" hamburger meat, and it's reddish in color, you pretty much can be confident that it is less than say 100 years old and you know it has beef in it. As to whether or not it is safe to eat is another story. And if you prepare it using Hamburger Helper you may wind up with something that tastes good, but that also might make you very sick not long after you eat it.

    Religion which is rehashed folklore. And because it's political spam from so long ago, you really can be sure of anything that's in it. It's like old Hamburger Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper Helper... and so on.

    Stay healthy and eat more vegetables.

    October 12, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • mama k

      Correction to the beginning of my second paragraph. Clarity is important. It should read:

      "Religion is rehashed folklore. And because it's political spam from so long ago, you really can't be sure of anything . ."

      October 12, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • Kev

      Well, if the word of God originally came from God before all the hashing and rehashing, did you seek the source and ask where to go?

      October 12, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • Bob

      Kev, problem is, god won't answer. Never has, never will. If you think otherwise, then present proof, but good luck with that; you'd be the first.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
    • Which God?

      Kev, that was a mindless statement. You can't "go to the source." There IS no source to go to. The babble was NOT written by god, so that go.obledy -go.ok doesn't hold up to anything. If you think so, you need to sit down and really think things through. God hasn't helped in any situation, nor has it done anything for humanity.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
    • Kev

      So guys, what is the big deal about conducting this experiment? There's no knowledge like first hand knowledge, and besides it wouldn't hurt.

      October 12, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
  6. OgLikeRock

    @nottolate
    First, don't you mean not TOO late? Learn English. Second, and I repeat, there is no objective evidence for the existence of your so-called god. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. Quoting the bible isn't objective or extraordinary proof. IF the message were only about ethics, all of the other mumbo jumbo wouldn't be needed, but the bible doesn't teach humane ethics. Here, here's a quote this supposed jebus made;
    Mathew 10:34 – "Do not think I came to bring peace, I came to bring the sword."
    Since there's no objective evidence this fraud-person existed, what would be the point of those words ever being written? To sanctify the unethical behavior perpetrated by the non-person's followers. Who look more and more like their own description of evil/devil. I can quote books too, you know. YoozYerBrain, please...

    October 12, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • nottolate

      "I can quote books too, you know."

      Yeah but do you know what they mean ascertaining the finer points? The obviously answer is no. For if you did you would have paid strict attention to and exegeted that which follows that which you quoted instead of focusing on something as irrelevant as a screen name. Boy, you unbelievers do think yourselves wise don't ya. NOT!

      October 12, 2012 at 12:50 pm |
    • OTOH

      @notolate,
      "Boy, you unbelievers do think yourselves wise don't ya. NOT!"

      And you...?

      October 12, 2012 at 1:29 pm |
    • Og Like Rock

      Og notice you don't address main point. Rock say "emperor has no clothes" if nottolate uses sources other than bible. Does rock need to explain finer points of this allusion? Og like rock...

      October 12, 2012 at 2:26 pm |
  7. Dyslexic doG

    Is Mormonism Christian?" is a very important question. The answer is equally important and simple. No. Mormonism is not Christian.

    The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God in all existence, Jesus is divine, God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:1-5), and Jesus rose from the dead physically (1 John 2:19; Luke 24:39), the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, 1 Cor. 15:1-4), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the God of Christianity, and His work of salvation.

    Mormonism teaches

    Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is God in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5). See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is (see also, false trinity)

    Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, the Mormon is not Christian – in spite of all his claims that he is Christian. Quite simply, the Mormon god doesn't exist.

    Mormonism teaches

    Mormon theology teaches that God is only one of countless gods, that he used to be a man on another planet, that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that world, and that he brought one of his wives to this world with whom he produces spirit children who then inhabit human bodies at birth. The first spirit child to be born was Jesus. Second was Satan, and then we all followed. But, the Bible says that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5), that God has been God eternally (Psalm 90:2) – which means he was never a man on another planet. Since the Bible denies the existence of other gods (and goddesses), the idea that Jesus is the product of a god and goddess couple is rejected. The Bible tells us that Jesus – The Jesus of Mormonism – is definitely not the same Jesus of the Bible. Therefore, faith in the Mormon Jesus is faith misplaced because the Mormon Jesus doesn't exist.

    Mormonism teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross itself (and receiving it by faith) is not sufficient to bring forgiveness of sins. It teaches that the forgiveness of sins is obtained though a cooperative effort with God; that is, we must be good and follow the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church in order to obtain forgiveness. Consider James Talmage, a very important Mormon figure who said, "The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil," (Articles, p. 432), and "Hence the justice of the scriptural doctrine that salvation comes to the individual only through obedience," (Articles, p. 81). This clearly contradicts the biblical doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9) and the doctrine that works are not part of our salvation but a result of them (Rom. 4:5, James 2:14-18).

    To further confuse the matter, Mormonism further states that salvation is twofold. It maintains that salvation is both forgiveness of sins and universal resurrection. So when a Mormon speaks of salvation by grace, he is usually referring to universal resurrection. But the Bible speaks of salvation as the forgiveness of sins, not simple universal resurrection. Where Mormonism states that forgiveness of sins is not by faith alone, the Bible does teache it is by faith alone. Which is correct? Obviously, it is the Bible.

    Mormonism and the Bible

    In order to justify its aberrant theology, Mormonism has undermined the authority and trustworthiness of the Bible. The 8th article of faith from the Mormon Church states, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly." This means that when the Bible contradicts Mormonism, the Bible isn't trustworthy.

    The interesting thing is that Joseph Smith allegedly corrected the Bible in what is called The Inspired Version, though it is not used by the LDS church. Though they claim they trust the Bible, in reality they do not. They use Mormon presuppositions to interpret it instead of letting it speak for itself. For example, where the Bible says there are no other gods in the universe (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8), they interpret it to mean "no other gods of this world" – which is not what those verses say. They do not trust the Bible and they often state that the Bible is not translated correctly.

    Conclusion

    Why is Mormonism a non-Christian religion? It is not Christian because it denies that there is only one God, denies the true Gospel, adds works to salvation, denies that Jesus is the uncreated creator, distorts the biblical teaching of the atonement, and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.

    No-one denies that Mormons are good people, that they worship "a" god, that they share common words with Christians, that they help their people, and that they do many good things. But that isn't what makes someone Christian. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23, " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (NKJV). Becoming a Christian does not mean belonging to a church, doing good things, or simply believing in God. Being a Christian means that you have trusted in the true God for salvation, in the True Jesus – not the brother of the devil, not the god of Mormonism, not the gospel of Mormonism. Mormonism is false and cannot save anyone.

    October 12, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • Madtown

      Being a Christian means that you have trusted in the true God for salvation
      ------
      Being a christian also means that you are arrogant enough to think that your opinion equates to "knowledge" of the "true God", which is ridiculous. In fact your opinion is just one of many throughout the world regarding God, and creation. Religions developed culturally. Had you been born in Egypt, you'd be Muslim, and then consider the traditions of the Muslim religion to be the "true" way to see God.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @doG,

      I bet you know some "true Scotsmen" too!

      October 12, 2012 at 1:16 pm |
    • Og Like Rock

      Rock say this same argument as
      "Bilbo had a yellow handkerchief when he ran out of Bag End"
      "No, Bilbo had a RED handkerchief when he ran out of Bag End" so you are a blasphemer!

      Rock say your ridiculous fantasies all look the same to rock. Og like rock...

      October 12, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • Jzybelle

      Thank you for that interesting explanation. And I mean that sincerely. We had a couple of mormon kids come to our house one time, and I think we blew them out of the water. Nice young men, and I truly enjoyed talking to them, but they couldn't provide answers to biblical questions that we had to argue their doctrine.

      Thanks again. That was a very interesting and revealing read.

      October 12, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • The Mockingjay

      You know, none of the protestant churches could possibly be the true church because they all apostatized from the Catholic church and can claim no authority (Isn't that why we call them protestants?) Christ founded his church on priesthood authority. Hebrews 5 says, " 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
      5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee." John 15:16 says: "16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit," Christ never intended that minsters and pastors run helter skelter preaching whatever they please and taking priesthood authority "unto themselves". He intended that his church be run by revelation administered by a prophet. Only the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the organization of the original church and is administered by a prophet of God. It is the only church today that is administered by verifiable priesthood authority with most churches not even bothering with authority at all!

      October 12, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
    • The Mockingjay

      But, why do we need to quarrel? We are all Christians and our differences are minor. We should be feiends.

      October 12, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • I wonder

      Mockingjay,
      "...administered by a prophet of God."

      And your verified evidence for this is....?

      October 12, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • Madtown

      It is the only church today that is administered by verifiable priesthood authority
      ---------
      Is it even possible that only 1 man-made religion would be "approved" by God, if not all equal human creations of God had access to it?

      October 12, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • Rynomite

      Each sect is of your cult is of course free to make up their own definitions of "Christian". However, the fact is, the word Christianos or Christian means "follower of Christ". That's it. Follower of Christ. The word does not mean you have to believe dogma A, or dogma B, or dogma C. All you have to do is be a follower of Christ.

      You don't have to believe he was born of a virgin or even that he is devine.
      Thomas Jefferson didn't believe either of those things and he considered himself a Christian (and a Deist) because he believed in the philosophy of Jesus.

      Even Atheists could be Christians. There is no requirement to believe in a god in order to believe that the core moral and ethical teachings of Jesus are good models to follow.

      October 12, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • The Mockingjay

      Usurpers and false prophets are always alone when they have their "visions". That is why the scriptures call for witnesses because the Lord knew that these things would occur. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 13, "1 In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." That is why we have witnesses to Jesus Christ's resurrection. That is why there were witnesses to all that Joseph Smith said, "Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. "
      Three men saw an angel and the plates were laid before them!!!! Later, 8 more men saw the plates and handled them. This is the difference between Joseph Smith and the false teachers of the day. JOSEPH SMITH HAD WITNESSES!
      That is also why the Father has sent the Holy Ghost to bear witness to us individually, so that we will not be deceived! " 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."
      5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."
      You can read the witnesses accounts on the introduction page of the Book of Mormon. You can get a free Book of Mormon at mormon.org.

      October 12, 2012 at 4:14 pm |
    • The Mockingjay

      The Protestants and Catholics who have changed the true doctrine. A good example is the Nicene creed. The Nicene Creed is nowhere in the Bible. It was totally fabricated by Constantine and his council of pagans, Capadocians, Nicenes, Gnostics, Arians, Apolinarians, Greek mystics and others who had an agenda. Constantine didn't know any doctrine. He just wanted peace in his empire from all the factions who were fighting over doctrine. He just settled for the first thing that the majority could agree with. The sad thing is that there were probably people there who knew the truth, but couldn't prevail over all the other factions – doctrine by committee! Paul would not have approved of the mess christianity is in. He said, "5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism," (Ephesians 4) Obviously, there can not be more than one true church or more than one true doctrine. The question is, which one? We invite all to visit mormon.org for the answer. Christ taught the true doctrine of the Godhead when he suffered himself to be baptized by John. In Luke 3:21,22 we read, "21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
      22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

      This is the true doctrine of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost which was taught by the Bible – that the Father and Son are two separate beings. Funny, the smartest religious leaders have been reading the Bible for 2000 years but it took a 14 year old boy to point out the obvious! Let's just come clean. The Nicene creed is incomprehensible, and directly contradicts the teachings of the New Testament.

      October 12, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • The Mockingjay

      I doubt you will reply, dyslexic, but out of curiosity, how do you explain Acts 7: 55 and 56:

      55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
      56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. (New Testament, Acts, Chapter 7)

      Steven saw the heavens open and saw Jesus on the right hand of God. Count them, one, two. We believe that Jesus rose from the dead with a physical body and that he still has that body of flesh and bones today.

      Grace? We believe in grace as much as you do. We just believe we first need to do all that we can do and then Christ will make up the difference. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (New Testament, James, Chapter 2).

      October 12, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • I wonder

      Mockingjay,

      What did Joseph Smith tell Oliver Cowdery when Oliver could not see any 'revelations' from "God" in the bottom of Joseph's hat?

      October 12, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • End Religion

      Inside I dance with glee when I see religious people wagging fingers at each other over which delusion is the truest one. Children in a sandbox. Thanks for once again illustrating that religion only delivers divisiveness and hate.

      October 14, 2012 at 1:43 pm |
  8. Dyslexic doG

    Any Christian who votes for a cultist Mormon will face God's harsh judgement!!!

    October 12, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • nottolate

      @Dyslexic dog

      Your first post was very good. Accurate too. This one I don't know. I don't see how any authentic Christian can vote for Romney. I know I'm not. But is that the word of Lord you just posted? Cause if not you've gone a tad bit to far in that it looks like prophecy?

      October 12, 2012 at 11:21 am |
    • Madtown

      You wouldn't know. You don't speak for God.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • nottolate

      @Madtown

      "You wouldn't know. You don't speak for God."

      He just might. Your problem is you'll never know when that is occurring being hardened of heart among other things.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • Madtown

      No human does.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • Madtown

      being hardened of heart among other things.
      ------
      LOL!! You are hilarious! Seriously, thanks for the comedy. Judging me as well? I guess you just know everything there is to know! You don't know the first thing about me. If you did, a "hardened heart" wouldn't possibly be something you'd think of me.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:51 am |
    • tammie

      im a christian, but who are you to judge? Gods the only one true judge! & besides God chooses whom ever he wills.God uses non believers to his advantage.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • nojinx

      Just a question: is not a follower of Christ, including a Mormon, a Christian? I thought we used Protestant for non-Catholic or non-Mormon theists.

      October 12, 2012 at 12:57 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Objectively, Mormons are not Protestants. They claim the t;tle of Christians and since Jesus figures prominently in their beliefs, yes they can claim to be Christians.

      Let's not forget that there are plenty of Protestant Evangelicals who don't think Catholics are Christians. This is of course patently absurd, but then we're talking about Protestant Evangelicals here.

      October 12, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @nojinx,

      there are lots of other non-Protestant, non Catholic Christians besides the Mormons. The biggest group are the Orthodox and Oriental sects. Then other odd balls like the Jehovah's Witnesses.

      October 12, 2012 at 1:02 pm |
    • nottolate

      @tammie

      "im a christian, but who are you to judge? Gods the only one true judge! & besides God chooses whom ever he wills.God uses non believers to his advantage."

      If you are you haven't done much studying. To much TV? You're carnal and spiritually insensible to the core.

      October 12, 2012 at 1:05 pm |
    • nojinx

      So any follower of Christ is a Christian, semantically speaking. Thanks.

      October 12, 2012 at 1:11 pm |
    • nottolate

      @nojinx

      "Just a question: is not a follower of Christ, including a Mormon, a Christian? I thought we used Protestant for non-Catholic or non-Mormon theists."

      Read the long post by Dyslexic doG above. He nails it and details just why Mormons aren't Christians. Same things hold for true Catholics and WOFers that you see on TV. Not everyone claiming to be Christian is. You must examine their doctrines closely to determine if they in fact are.

      October 12, 2012 at 1:11 pm |
    • nojinx

      Yes, thanks. Dyslexic's points were invalid due to their lack of objectivity. He was arguing from opinion of why a particular definition would apply, rather than using linguistic logic.

      An anthropologist might be the best person to answer this question. Theists could be biased if they subscribe to a Christian belief.

      Out of curiosity though, if Mormon or other Christ followers are not Christians, what is the term you would use for all followers of Christ?

      October 12, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @nolatte,

      what's a WOFer? and can I get one at Burger King?

      So you have the monopoly of truth on what it is to be a "true Christian"?

      October 12, 2012 at 1:19 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Madtown

      "I guess you just know everything there is to know!"

      No, I just know the things you and every unbeliever here needs to know but don't.

      October 12, 2012 at 1:40 pm |
    • nottolate

      @nojinx,

      "Yes, thanks. Dyslexic's points were invalid due to their lack of objectivity. He was arguing from opinion of why a particular definition would apply, rather than using linguistic logic."

      That is incorrect. He was arguing from the historic definition of just what is a Christian based upon essential doctrines having knowledge of them which he's obviously studied. You have not. Essentials that Mormons do not subscribe to and even contradict. They then therefore cannot be authentic Christian.

      "An anthropologist might be the best person to answer this question. Theists could be biased if they subscribe to a Christian belief."

      Now you're going way out in left field somewhere. The sciences can do nothing in getting at the heart of this.

      Out of curiosity though, if Mormon or other Christ followers are not Christians, what is the term you would use for all followers of Christ?

      Again, Mormons are not followers of Christ. The actually make up there own Christ. A counterfeit one that is pleasing to them and not as he in fact is. "Spirit brother of Lucifer?" Really?! Can their be any bigger blasphemy? And yet that is the Christ that the Mormons have created to their liking. See the difference? Wofers do the exact same thing. They too create their own Christ because they don't want Christ as he is. And so they have no part with the real Christ.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @nottolate

      You're forgetting one important thing. You don't have the right to tell someone else what they are or what they must label themselves as.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:18 pm |
    • nottolate

      @I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "@nolatte, what's a WOFer? and can I get one at Burger King?"

      See, had you not acted so dumb I would have gladly told you what a WOFer is. Now you're pretty much on your own left to your own ignorance and perpetual peril. Good luck with that.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • nottolate

      @hawaiiguest

      "You're forgetting one important thing. You don't have the right to tell someone else what they are or what they must label themselves as."

      Silly remark. In other words, you can't call a dog a dog.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      That's a false analogy.

      1) We don't know how self aware dogs are.
      2) They cannot communicate their own preferences on labels to us.

      People can. Your analogy fails.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
    • I wonder

      WOF =

      Wheel of Fortune?
      Who's on First?
      Warriors of Fury?

      (p.s. I know what notto means, [hint: "carnal"], but it's much more fun guessing other stuff...)

      October 12, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
    • LinCA

      @I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      You said, "what's a WOFer? and can I get one at Burger King?"
      WOFer – Wacko of faith.

      WOFers are highly delusional believers, even more so than your average believer. You may find some at BK, or any fast food joint. They will most likely be in charge of mopping the floors. The higher functioning ones may be found salting the fries. But no, you can't get one.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:32 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Christian = Faith + 0

      October 12, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • Og Like Rock

      Dyslexic -Rock say "prove god"....

      Og say, not gonna happen without circular illogic...

      October 12, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
    • Madtown

      I just know the things you and every unbeliever here needs to know but don't
      -----–
      Your arrogance actually exceeds your stupidity, the result being excessive hilarity. Again you suggest to know something you do not know. I'm an "unbeliever"? Wrong. I believe in God.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
    • Og Like Rock

      "....prove it" said rock.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      I'm laughing that nottolate apparently disappeared after I pointed out his complete failure of an analogy.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @LinCA,

      thanks for helping me out with "WOFer". I really had no idea what it meant. With my comment, I figured I'd get a 'f... you' reaction from @notlatte, but I couldn't help myself.

      Based on your definition and @nolatte's 'true Christian' / 'monopoly of faith' comments I would think that he is precisely that.

      October 12, 2012 at 3:52 pm |
    • nojinx

      @nottolate:

      First, I think you have fgallen into a xeno phobic bias that illogically prevents you from accepting that opinions may differ.
      Second, if "The sciences can do nothing in getting at the heart of this," then this conversation is pointless as we are only left with opinions that cannot be supported.
      Third, the differences you discuss between your idea of what a Christ ian is and what a Mormon thinks is as meaningful as two Scien tologists arguing over a passage of Dian etics. I feel you have eliminated yourself as a knowledgeable and objective resource on the matter.
      Cheers!

      October 12, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
  9. Dyslexic doG

    the upcoming election will prove two points.
    (a) that christians are believers according to convenience, and
    (b) that republican christians are republicans first and christians second

    Romney is a mormon which is a religion that, as well as co-optingsome parts and characters from the bible word for word, also contradicts and makes a mockery of so many key christian religious beliefs that it should be a bigger issue to christians than gay marriage and abortion. But ... the same way as christians always pick and choose which parts of the bible to loudly proclaim and which parts of the bible to pretend don't exist ... they will ignore all these issues and vote for Romney anyway.

    What do you think God/Jesus will think of you if you give your vote to a man who truly believes that he will one day be a God? Or a man who truly believes that Joseph Smith, a 19th century reknowned con-man, is an equal of Jesus?

    Go on christans, pretend you never read this post. Find some obscure bible quote that will justify you supporting a cult. What a joke!

    October 12, 2012 at 11:06 am |
    • nottolate

      Agreed. I have been telling so-called Christians this very thing. How can you vote for a guy who subscribes to the very same ideas that got Satan kicked out of Heaven?

      October 12, 2012 at 11:24 am |
    • Og Like Rock

      Rock say "prove god"....

      October 12, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
  10. Woody

    "................at the evangelist’s remote mountaintop home in North Carolina."

    Billy would like to thank all the little people (suckers) for making this possible. Keep those cards, letters and tax free donations coming in.

    October 12, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • Beth

      Indeed, Woody. Graham and his ilk are laughing all the way to the bank at stupid donor sheeple. What a pathetic lot.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:24 am |
  11. Pete

    If the headline read "Romney meets with Graham, kicks him in the balls" I might have considered voting for him.

    October 12, 2012 at 9:45 am |
  12. JeepGirl

    God will not be mocked. Those of you in these comments who do not fear Him, will be shown the truth. Billy Graham is a true servant of God. He has ministered to hundreds of thousands of people with God's truth. When the Dems took God and Jerusalem out of their platform at the DNC, it opened up my eyes and I won't be voting for your candidate again. God has given us all a free choice. I've made mine. Peace

    October 12, 2012 at 9:27 am |
    • Damocles

      @Jeep

      I always find it odd that believers talk about free will and then threaten with hellfire and brimstone.

      'Oh yeah, you have free will, but if you use it my deity is going to punch you in the face.'

      October 12, 2012 at 9:38 am |
    • Dawkins is my homeboy

      God will always be mocked, because he is a imaginary diety and a huge fvcking joke.

      October 12, 2012 at 9:43 am |
    • mikey

      You do have free will genius.

      If Heaven is God's home and He's going to destroy the earth. You're either going to get what you wanted which is Him. Or get what you wanted which is not Him. You can't go to His house without Him though. Jesus died on the cross, and the choice to follow His Word and His Spirit, is up to you.

      October 12, 2012 at 9:53 am |
    • nottolate

      @JeepGirl,

      "Billy Graham is a true servant of God. He has ministered to hundreds of thousands of people with God's truth."

      Yeah but Graham makes a huge mistake here. For it is written,

      10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house and do not give him any greeting,1 11 because the person who gives him a greeting shares in his evil deeds.

      We know that Romney is more than just a rank and file member of the Mormon Church. Graham therefore has no business even meeting with him. Mormon doctrine is among the most blasphemous you'll find in any word religion.

      October 12, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • Madtown

      who do not fear Him, will be shown the truth
      ------
      What's to fear about someone who loves us?

      October 12, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • sam stone

      JeepGirl: If you made your peace, why the empty proxy threats?

      Also, your gods will be mocked as much as other gods will be mocked.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • nottolate

      @mikey,

      There is no such thing as absolute free will. What you have is a very limited freedom to make choices which can be upset at any time by God and often is to bring about his sovereign will. If there were absolute free will then God would not be sovereign now would he?

      October 12, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • Madtown

      Mormon doctrine is among the most blasphemous you'll find in any word religion.
      -----–
      Yet, it's relevance and value are equal to that of the bible.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • nottolate

      mikey

      "If Heaven is God's home and He's going to destroy the earth."

      God is not gonna destroy the earth. He's gonna renovate it. Why else do you think that hot core is sitting beneath you that's reportedly hotter than the sun?

      October 12, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Beth

      JeepGirl, "God will not be mocked." is false. Here, I'll mock your god now: Na Na god, you suck! Your god is so pathetically incapable that he made millions of design errors in "designing" life on our planet.

      And your threat presentation is essentially Pascal's Wager, an easily nullified argument. Look it up.

      Do America a big favor , learn some modern science, and get over your delusions already.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • nottolate

      @Madtown,

      Who says God loves you? Are you part of his elect? If not I would be deeply concerned.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:23 am |
    • niknak

      Billy Gramm is a scammer who uses religion as his ponzi scheem.
      And you and your backward family/friends bought right into the scam hook line and sinker.
      He laughs at you everytime he sees another mil going into his account.
      He has multiple houses, private planes and boats, mistresses and will never have to worry about money as long as the myth is alive.
      There is no god, so your not so vieled threat of us who mock god being punished is bull.
      Phuck god.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:28 am |
    • nottolate

      @Madtown

      "Yet, it's relevance and value are equal to that of the bible."

      Do you even hear yourself? How is it valuable when it's blasphemy? There is nothing good about blasphemy and so it has no value.....geeesh!

      October 12, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • ref

      @not to late

      The decision of relevance for that poster is not your decision.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • nottolate

      @ref

      "The decision of relevance for that poster is not your decision."

      Then you apparently don't know the theological definition of BLASPHEMY with that assessment. And since you don't that puts you in error.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • Madtown

      How is it valuable when it's blasphemy?
      ---–
      Blasphemous to who, you? No one is concerned about what you consider blasphemy, 'cuz that's just your opinion. Blasphemous to God? You wouldn't know. You don't speak for God.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Madtown

      Who says God loves you?
      ----–
      Your scripture.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • nottolate

      @Madtown

      Who says God loves you?
      --–
      Your scripture.

      Show me.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • === o ===

      Uh oh, someone's done woke up Carrie's grandmammy!

      October 12, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • Madtown

      Show me.
      ----
      LOL!!! Arrogance combined with mind-numbing foolishness sure is entertaining!

      October 12, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • OgLikeRock

      God is a stupid concept used by the ignorant to explain natural phenomenon that weren't in the past understood. I mock both the concept of god and the ones who drove that fear and ignorance into your brain from birth. There is no god, just a bunch of scared people who could use a lesson in science and psychology, especially the psychology of those like B graham, stalin, hitler, etc who sociop athically must take advantage of the rest of the human race- for which they have no love or respect.

      And by the way, why would anyone want us to go back to the party that gave us the debt, economy, and wars we're still struggling to overcome? Dude, W had a $5 trillion SURPLUS when he stole that first election! Robber barons, and you want them back? Totally un-American. The Taliban loves you.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • OTOH

      JeepGirl,

      You (and your fantasy) mock reality.

      October 12, 2012 at 1:35 pm |
    • Which God?

      Ahh, JeepGirl. How can you mock something that just doesn't exist? If it does, please point it out to me, so I can mock it for such a rotten job it has done .

      October 12, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • End Religion

      @jeepGirl: "God will not be mocked."

      I will prove you wrong. Hey god, nanny-nanny-boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo. I say in a retard voice, "thou shalt not kill, shmou shmalt shmot shmill."

      Done and done.

      ***
      "Those of you in these comments who do not fear Him, will be shown the truth."

      We already know the truth. All religion is a fraud. If you suffer from a brand of this delusion, it is no less crazy than any other.

      ***
      "Billy Graham is a true servant of God."

      No such thing. Certainly not a deluded charlatan who defrauded the entire world.

      http://youtu.be/P1hl2jdfIiA

      ***
      "He has ministered to hundreds of thousands of people with God's truth."

      You're confusing "ministered" with using the words people want to hear in order to part them from their money. God is a fraud. Anyone who continues to present that fraud as a truth to you only wants something from you, usually your money, but sometimes your trust so that you may be further be used for a larger financial goal.

      ***
      "When the Dems took God and Jerusalem out of their platform at the DNC, it opened up my eyes and I won't be voting for your candidate again. God has given us all a free choice. I've made mine. Peace"

      God is not a part of any platform. If he was, don't you think he would choose the platform that provides more social benefit? I'm not sure how god ever came to be equated with the repub party other than the fact they constantly claim him on their team. It is the dems who provide the most social programs and money toward those ends, which constantly causes repubs to moan and complain, however wouldn't this be EXACTLY what the vaunted jesus would have done? Wouldn't he have had housing for the poor and all that jazz?

      October 14, 2012 at 1:12 am |
  13. Matt in Oregon

    Obvious pandering to the religious right is obvious

    October 12, 2012 at 9:24 am |
  14. niknak

    What a bunch of creepy people.
    What is it about religion that makes people look all inbred and dumb?
    Maybe it's something in the water.

    October 12, 2012 at 9:11 am |
    • The Truth

      "What is it about religion that makes people look all inbred and dumb?"

      Well for starters, it's because it's easier to find someone who has the same faith as you when they are in your own family and have gone to the same church as you did growing up. That coupled with the belief that all the "intermalectuals" from that thar big city be teechin lies about God and stuff don't make um to likely to get past the 8th grade...

      October 12, 2012 at 2:18 pm |
  15. James

    The divisions amongst christians are worse than those between shiite and sunni muslims and more people have been killed throughout history. What would Jesus say if he was to re-appear. How would he judge the enormous wealth that some of the so-called preachers have amassed? I suspect he will castigate them just like he chased the money-lenders out of the temple. The things that people do in Jesus' name are deplorable.

    October 12, 2012 at 7:12 am |
    • nottolate

      @James.

      "The divisions amongst christians are worse than those between shiite and sunni muslims and more people have been killed throughout history. What would Jesus say if he was to re-appear. How would he judge the enormous wealth that some of the so-called preachers have amassed?"

      The problem is you've not taking the necessary time to discover just what is and what is not a Christian. There are those you'd swear are Christian when they're really not. And all because you refuse to take the time to get to the bottom of it. You also might want to know that it is impossible for you to positively id an authentic Christian yourself not being born again.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:04 am |
    • ref

      @not to late

      Your judgment does not extend past you.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • Damocles

      @not

      So you say that people have to find out what a true believer is and then go on to say it's impossible to know who is a true believer?

      October 12, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • YoozYerBrain

      Remember James, there is no objective proof that jebus existed, period, end of discussion. This person never existed, ever, and the sociopaths that created that nonsense, ie saul/paul, constantine, popes, etc et al, only use it as the political tool that it is. This was a person that never existed in reality, but is a convenient myth to fit the purposes of the various people who DID exist and have used this myth to control you. YoozYerBrain, please...

      October 12, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • nottolate

      @ref

      "Your judgment does not extend past you."

      It is enough.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • YoozYerBrain

      @ James
      "ran the money-lenders out of the temple"... this is one of the things I point to in the NT to prove this person never existed. Don't you think there would have been SOME kind of record of this person's actions, in Jewish temple or rabbinical writings, Pharisees scribes, ANYTHING since he was such a rabble-rouser? Something? Anything? How about even- "Some dude came into the temple and physically attempted to remove the bankers who've had a concession in the temple for hundreds of years." Not even that. No Roman records, no temple records, no archeological records, nothing independently verifiable. The whole thing is made up and taught as fact, which is the real crime perpetrated by christianity. YoozYerBrain, please...

      October 12, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • nottolate

      @DamocIes,

      "So you say that people have to find out what a true believer is and then go on to say it's impossible to know who is a true believer?"

      No, I'm informing you of that which you cannot know. That is, you are not endowed with the capacity to positively id an authentic Christian not being born again.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • Damocles

      @not

      Ah, I see. You have the ability to know who is a real believer and who isn't? How do you handle that awesome responsibility? I bet your deity comes to you when it is unsure who is really a follower of its teachings.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • nottolate

      @Damocles

      "Ah, I see. You have the ability to know who is a real believer and who isn't? How do you handle that awesome responsibility?"

      Whats so awesome about it? Do you not know who your biological siblings are? So too can we discern just who our spiritual siblings are and who is not.

      " I bet your deity comes to you when it is unsure who is really a follower of its teachings."

      An utterly ridiculous statement seeing as how he hand picked each one of us. So play nice.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • midwest rail

      Reading the comments by nottolate only reinforces the image of today's faux Christian as arrogant, condescending, and self-righteous – they bear little to no resemblance to the ideals they espouse.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • Damocles

      @not

      No, it's possible I would not know who my biological siblings are. As an adoptee, it would be very easy for me to not know blood relatives.

      Right, you say he handpicked you. You are claiming to know the mind of something that would, for all intents and purposes, be unknowable.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • nottolate

      @Damocles,

      "No, it's possible I would not know who my biological siblings are. As an adoptee, it would be very easy for me to not know blood relatives."

      See, now you're being a bit silly. You know full well the context is all things being equal.

      "Right, you say he handpicked you. You are claiming to know the mind of something that would, for all intents and purposes, be unknowable."

      God is not unknowable. The Greeks thought that in the first century and said so. My, how little you have progressed. Haven't moved one inch. God is knowable and we know him because he is our Father and his mind is in us. As it is written,

      14 The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The one who is spiritual discerns all things, yet he himself is understood by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to advise him? But we have the mind of Christ.

      Therefore you are offended in what we speak. You do not like the mind of God and therefore do not like us.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • Damocles

      @not

      You made the claim that we would know our biological siblings. I merely pointed out that that isn't always true whether you agree or not.

      So the whole debate is moot then since you claim that there are only a select few who can know the mind of a deity. The rest of us will just have to stumble along finding meaning in our friends, relatives and all the other things that have actual meaning as opposed to empty feel good stories that can only be seen after death.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:55 am |
    • Madtown

      As it is written....
      ---
      And, what about human beings born to a portion of the world where they will never learn the first thing about christianity, never have a chance to learn anything of the bible? How can they possibly "know" God without the bible?

      October 12, 2012 at 12:01 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Madtown,
      -
      And, what about human beings born to a portion of the world where they will never learn the first thing about christianity, never have a chance to learn anything of the bible? How can they possibly "know" God without the bible?

      Whom God wants God goes and gets. God doesn't need a printed bible. Y'all are so busy blaspheming that you can't hear a word that is being said or learn anything about God. For it is written,

      45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.

      and again

      10 ​​​​​​​“For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people.

      Just as it is with every authentic Christian. We don't need a bible. What we need is his word which is already written on our hearts. The bible is just a bonus.

      October 12, 2012 at 1:52 pm |
    • Madtown

      God doesn't need a printed bible.... For it is written
      -----
      LOL!! Now you've got yourself confused(something I imagine happens frequently). "God doesn't need a bible", but then you go and quote more scripture?! LOL!!! Sounds like you're suggesting that for those without access to christianity, God can see what's written on their hearts and that is sufficient. I actually agree with this. Of course, this also means there's no need for man-made religion in the first place, if God finds favor with people who have no knowledge of the bible. No need for religion is good news!

      October 12, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
  16. Reality

    Dear Billy G,

    We welcome you to the 21st century with a prayer:

    The Apostles' Creed 2012 (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
    ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen
    (References used are available upon request.)

    October 12, 2012 at 7:08 am |
  17. Reality

    Graham and his son should first apologize for ripping off their "non-profits" with their combined salaries of $1.2 million/yr.

    And it is all a con job!! Both should be sued for selling a historically and theologically flawed religion !

    October 12, 2012 at 7:07 am |
  18. Joihn Dale

    I think Romney is already guaranteed the moron vote, so this photo-op/meeting seems like a waste of time to me.

    October 12, 2012 at 5:14 am |
  19. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    October 12, 2012 at 4:39 am |
    • Paul Spence

      Explain why. While you are at it explain why it must be healthy to believe things for which there is no evidence and why non-human species suffer for not believing in a god.

      October 12, 2012 at 4:51 am |
    • nottolate

      @Paul Spence

      "and why non-human species suffer for not believing in a god."

      Non-human species suffer as a direct result of the fall of man. The whole creation is under a curse. Next time you see a weed growing somewhere you'll see a result of that curse. Weeds would not even exist if it weren't for this.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Damocles

      @not

      Really? Weeds are now the fault of man? Come on.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • Madtown

      Non-human species suffer as a direct result of the fall of man
      ----–
      The "fall of man" is a man-made concept. We were created as we are, as we were meant to be, imperfect.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:16 am |
    • nottolate

      @Damocies,

      "Really? Weeds are now the fault of man? Come on."

      Yeah, read it:

      17 ​​​​​​​But to Adam he said,
      “Because you obeyed your wife
      and ate from the tree about which I commanded you,
      ‘You must not eat from it,’
      cursed is the ground thanks to you;
      in painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
      18 ​​​​​​​It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
      but you will eat the grain of the field.
      19 ​​​​​​​By the sweat of your brow you will eat food
      until you return to the ground,
      for out of it you were taken;
      for you are dust, and to dust you will return.”

      October 12, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!~..

      October 12, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • Damocles

      @not

      So the ground is cursed, yet it can grow things?

      One of the things I find amusing is that a deity supposedly created two people and then got so mad at them that it damned every person after that. It would have been easier to just try again with two more people but somehow that never occured to an all powerful deity.

      October 12, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • nottolate

      "So the ground is cursed, yet it can grow things?"

      What does the text say? It says in plain English that it will grow things that we may eat. But it also says it will grow weeds.

      "One of the things I find amusing is that a deity supposedly created two people and then got so mad at them that it damned every person after that."

      No, we did it to ourselves. Adam is the federal head of the entire human race. Think like your Congressman represents you in Washington. So does Adam represent you before God. And he messed up big time.

      "It would have been easier to just try again with two more people but somehow that never occured to an all powerful deity."

      Actually it did. There was already a plan in place it deal with it. A covenant was made within the Godhead for that very purpose and the coming of Christ is a part of that redemptive covenant.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • Madtown

      A covenant was made within the Godhead
      -----
      The trinity is a creation of the human mind. It is not necessary to use it, in order to believe in God.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • Damocles

      @not

      So tell me how many needless deaths were caused because a deity was unwilling or unable to make a change when it mattered. If I make something and it doesn't turn out the way I want it, I don't keep making the flawed product, do I?

      You believers put more terms and conditions to your deity than I do.

      October 12, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • nottolate

      "So tell me how many needless deaths were caused because a deity was unwilling or unable to make a change when it mattered. "

      No. you did that to yourselves. Who says God is obligated to rush in and save us? He's not. He chooses to save some however. Add to that the covenant was already in place to deal with your disobedience so what need is there to go any other route? Bear in mind that those who are chosen were chosen before Adam's sin in any response.

      October 12, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • OTOH

      Ah, nottolate – another one who thinks himself to be wise...

      October 12, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • Madtown

      He chooses to save some however
      -------
      The arrogance of those who think they know the mind of God. If you can get past how pathetic it is, it's actually quite funny!

      October 12, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
    • End Religion

      @ntl: "So does Adam represent you before God. And he messed up big time."

      What's messed up that god sends people to hell if they don't play his game properly. He supposedly set the game in motion and forces one to choose from limited choices.

      Just like Jigsaw from the movie Saw, god supposedly puts a game in motion, forcing people to choose his way or torture. While the poor cattle in the movie indeed get to "exercise free will" they've still been bound into a game against their choice, then forced to play by its rules.

      And you call this god a loving god... lol.. He's a horror movie monster.

      October 12, 2012 at 6:29 pm |
  20. spangler

    Having 10 billion years to plan the reveal between the Big Bang and the earliest humans, the diety has determined that each tribe and culture can come up with their own religion and change it whenever they feel like it.

    October 12, 2012 at 2:58 am |
    • Funker

      What are you babbling about? If you believe in a deity (not diety, which has something to do with eating), he/she should have no problem existing beyond the constraints of time, and "Having 10 billion years to plan the reveal between the Big Bang and the earliest humans" would mean the same as an instant.

      October 12, 2012 at 3:21 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.