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Secular coalition grades presidential candidates
October 17th, 2012
09:11 AM ET

Secular coalition grades presidential candidates

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) – When judged on their ability to relate to the desires of secular Americans, the presidential candidates aren’t making the grade, according to a large coalition of secular organizations.

Looking at their positions on everything from faith’s place in the presidency to where it fits in education, health care and other American priorities, GOP candidate Mitt Romney got an F, President Barack Obama barely got by, earning a C, and Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson came out at the top of the class, receiving a B.

At a time when the Pew Forum determined the religiously unaffiliated are the fastest growing “religious” group in America, with one in five Americans not affiliated with any religion, a candidate scorecard from secularists should matter, says Lauren Anderson Youngblood, spokeswoman for the Secular Coalition for America.

The coalition, which is made up of a collection of atheist, humanist and agnostic organizations, set out to grade the candidates by first identifying the criteria it deemed most important. The coalition then crafted questions to determine where the politicians stack up when it comes to, say, their stances on faith-based initiatives, public prayer and support of the word “God” in the Pledge of Allegiance. The group pulled media reports and speech transcripts to find answers and further analyze these politicians’ performances on issues that matter to secular voters.

The coalition asked, for example, “What role would religion play in the candidate's decision-making as president of the United States?”

Based on an Obama speech at the National Prayer Breakfast in 2012, one in which the president said he has “fallen on my knees” and asked God for guidance “in the life of this nation,” the group handed down an F. But Romney didn’t fare any better – earning the same grade for saying in his 2007 speech on faith in America that he “will also offer perspectives on how my own faith would inform my presidency, if I were elected.”

Marks given for various questions were then added up to determine the candidates’ final grades.

Though the goal in doing this was to “help people who vote on secular values” decide who to vote for, the coalition spokeswoman believes the results could be valuable to the candidates, too.

“Political parties need to learn how to reach out to the secular community, and I think tools like the scorecard will help them do that,” Youngblood said.

The scorecard faults Obama on his continuation of faith-based initiatives, his support of keeping “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance and his participation in prayer events. Obama earned As for his recognition of America as a secular nation, his appreciation of the separation of church and state, and his support of science in education.

Out of 17 categories, Romney received two As – for his support of science in education and his willingness to appoint someone secular, which he said he would do in a 2007 interview with NBC’s Tim Russert. Romney’s more common grade, though, is an F, where the coalition faults him for his use of faith in decision-making, his stance on separation of church and state and his use of religious beliefs to determine public health care policy.

Youngblood told CNN that the coalition did send questionnaires to each campaign, allowing them to answer for themselves, but no one responded – a result she called “unfortunate.”

“Many of them have religion and government intertwined,” Youngblood said, “and we are not even on their radar, not even important enough to return our questionnaire.”

But one party in particular may soon have to take notice, says John Green, a senior adviser to Pew.

Pointing to 2008 exit polls and findings that 63% of the religiously unaffiliated identify with or lean Democrat, he said that group may be poised to gain a foothold, much as the religious right gained power in the GOP in the 1980s.

For many secularists, agnostics and atheists, a standing and recognized influence can’t come soon enough.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: 2012 Election • Atheism • Barack Obama • Belief • Mitt Romney • Politics

soundoff (325 Responses)
  1. STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

    Human I am Taliban, terrorist goon, my skunk step-father, cross-dresser never sent my sister to school, made her dance for money, absurdity of Isl mic Heejras, she is a dancer of first class, 2 millions plus views, see her video and like her. Please.
    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwsS6eEmYI&w=640&h=360]

    October 17, 2012 at 10:10 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Human all kids in the video are my sons from my 46 wives.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      You're full of horse feathers murder boy.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:56 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      You're actually full of s*h*i*t murder boy.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:59 pm |
    • Athy

      Actually, it's shit.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:01 pm |
    • Shaqeel

      That napaq woman dances like a who,re in public. Shame on her parents and STOP for posting offensive video onYouTube.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:23 pm |
    • Athy

      It's "whore", not who,re".

      October 18, 2012 at 12:06 am |
    • Jeff Williams

      This person is obviously sick – please don't respond. Hopefully the meds will kick in and these posts will stop.

      October 18, 2012 at 10:42 am |
  2. Colin

    A quick quiz should help us understand why the Separation of Church and State must be maintained at all costs, especially in our education system.

    The completely absurd theory that all 7,000,000,000 human beings are simultaneously being supervised 24 hours a day, every day of their lives by an immortal, invisible being for the purposes of reward or punishment in the “afterlife” comes from the field of:

    (a) Children’s fairytales;

    (b) Medieval mythology;

    (c) New age pseudo science; or

    (d) the most politically powerful religion in the USA

    I honestly believe that, when I think silent thoughts like, “please god, help me pass my exam tomorrow,” some invisible being is reading my mind and will intervene and alter what would otherwise be the course of history in small ways to help me. I am

    (a) a delusional schizophrenic;

    (b) a naïve child, too young to know that that is silly

    (c) an ignorant farmer from Sudan who never had the benefit of even a fifth grade education; or

    (d) your average voting Christian

    Millions and millions of Catholics believe that bread and wine turns into the actual flesh and blood of a dead Jew from 2,000 years ago because:

    (a) there are obvious visible changes in the condiments after the Catholic priest does his hocus pocus;

    (b) tests have confirmed a divine presence in the bread and wine;

    (c) now and then their god shows up and confirms this story; or

    (d) their religious convictions tell them to blindly accept this completely fvcking absurd nonsense.

    I believe that an all powerful being, capable of creating the entire cosmos watches me have $ex to make sure I don't do anything "naughty" like protect myself with a condom. I am

    (a) A victim of child molestation

    (b) A r.ape victim trying to recover

    (c) A mental patient with paranoid delusions

    (d) A Christian who can influence access to condoms and other birth control

    You are about 70% likely to believe the entire Universe began less than 10,000 years ago with only one man, one woman and a talking snake if you are a:

    (a) historian;

    (b) geologist;

    (c) NASA astronomer; or

    (d) Christian who can infuence education policies

    I have convinced myself that gay $ex is a choice and not genetic, but then have no explanation as to why only gay people have ho.mo$exual urges. I am

    (a) A failed psychologist

    (b) A fraudulent geneticist

    (c) A sociologist who never went to college; or

    (d) A voting Christian with the remarkable ability to ignore inconvenient facts.

    The only discipline known to often cause people to kill others they have never met and/or to commit suicide in its furtherance is:

    (a) Architecture;

    (b) Philosophy;

    (c) Archeology; or

    (d) Religion

    What is it that most differentiates science and all other intellectual disciplines from religion:

    (a) Religion tells people not only what they should believe, but what they must believe under threat of divine retribution, whereas science, economics, medicine etc. has no “sacred cows” in terms of doctrine and go where the evidence leads them;

    (b) Religion can make a statement, such as “there is one god comprised of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit”, and be totally immune from experimentation and challenge, whereas science can only make factual assertions when supported by considerable evidence;

    (c) Science and the scientific method is universal and consistent all over the World whereas religion is regional and a person’s religious conviction, no matter how deeply held, is clearly nothing more than an accident of birth; or

    (d) All of the above.

    If I am found wandering the streets flagellating myself, wading into a filth river, mutilating my child’s genitals or kneeling down in a church believing that a being is somehow reading my inner thoughts and prayers, I am likely driven by:

    (a) a deep psychiatric issue;

    (b) an irrational fear or phobia;

    (c) a severe mental degeneration caused by years of drug abuse; or

    (d) my religious belief.

    If I am worried that my children, who I love very much, will not believe something I tell them, such as "smoking is bad for you," I should:

    (a) have our family doctor explain to them the various ill effects of smoking.

    (b) show them a film produced by the National Inst.itute for Health on the topic.

    (c) set a good example for them by not smoking; or

    (d) refuse to give them any evidence of the ill effects of smoking, insist they rely on faith and then take them out into the backyard and burn them to death if I ever catch them smoking.

    October 17, 2012 at 9:56 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      If we want to build a society we can all live in in peace we have to equip young people with the tools they need to break free from the indoctrination and the lies that often come from the ones closest to them. Skepticism works. There's nothing more heartwarming than a child who will tell a priest that he's full of shit and here's why.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • biobraine

      Great post Colin

      October 17, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Very simple to watch regardless of number's, if human can control multiple stations from any place on earth or sky, have no doubt, the one created every thing have mean's to watch, whom ever or what ever "HE" created, your hinduism, assumption is based on your small capacity, not of truth absolute GOD,

      October 17, 2012 at 10:29 pm |
    • biobraine

      I've never been able to figure out if this Hindu filthy atheist guy really believes what he posts or if he's just making fun of religion

      October 17, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      D'accord!!

      October 17, 2012 at 10:54 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      biobraine
      Visit my website, limitisthetuth.com ans find out hinduism, corruption of truth absolute by hindu's, criminals to create Pharisee ism, hypocrisy as religion your self.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:35 pm |
  3. STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

    Human my HEEJRA cross-dresser father, goon, no power of his own, let my mother turned into hoo'ker, moral of the post, I am stuck with ten HARAMEE (bast'ard) brothers.

    October 17, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      hinduism, absurdity of a hindu, my haramee brothers are cab drivers, ALL, brings money, cash, stupid, I love them, good muslaman brothers.

      October 17, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      hinduism, absurdity of a hindu, looser

      October 17, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Human please enjoy my HARAMEE sisters
      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnX2wgvVtaE&w=640&h=360]

      October 17, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Sign of a hindu, stupid hindu looser.

      October 17, 2012 at 8:48 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Human I am Taliban, terrorist goon, my skunk father, cross-dresser never sent my sister to school, absurdity of Isl mic Heejra, she is a dancer of first class, see her video and like her.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
    • sqeptiq

      semi-literate troll.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:10 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      sorry Human, I am possessed by too many devils, one tells me to curse Hindus Jews Christians, other makes me to curse my own father, mothers, and my Haramee brothers, and dancing sisters. I need help.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:28 pm |
  4. Mitt Romney

    My promise to all Americans, I will not cum in your mouth. Go down on me America! I hope I've earned that from you.

    October 17, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
  5. STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

    Human my mother, once an angle, now a hook'er of first class, thanks to my father, follower of GAWD, Taliban goons, moral of the post, you sleep with secular GAWDs you get fleas.

    October 17, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      hinduism, absurdity of a hindu, stupid.

      October 17, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
  6. Boulderdash Gentile

    Plan-less or without planning is creation said to be by those who make unGodly mockery their chief dissertation.

    October 17, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
  7. t3chn0ph0b3

    If there were even the slightest chance that voting for Gary Johnson would change anything, I'd think about it.

    October 17, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
  8. STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

    therealpeace2all
    @KRHODES

    You Wrote: " Does that make them secularist...not being affiliated with a religion? That does not mean they are atheist or agnostics if i am reading that correctly. "

    **sec·u·lar·ism, self center ism, denial of truth absolute.
    n.
    1. Religious skepticism or indifference. Religion's are hinduism, corruption of truth absolute, hindu, criminal secularist live by.
    2. The view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education. Education, knowledge has to include instruction according to truth absolute of a subject, and to be trained to live by truth absolute, otherwise known as civil and law abiding, hindu secularist oppose.
    secu·lar·ist n.

    **secularism, hinduism, denial of truth absolute.
    n
    1. (Philosophy) Philosophy a doctrine that rejects religion, esp in ethics, Philosopha, meaning path to a height by following of path of truth absolute. not as you hind, lie, denial of truth absolute. Ethic's means limitation's, and secular deny ethic's, limit's of truth absolute and follow hinduism, denial of truth absolute like hindu's, criminals.
    2. the att-itude that religion should have no place in civil affairs, Yes, not hinduism, corruption of truth absolute called religion's but truth absolute must.
    3. the state of being secular, being hindu, ignorant to truth absolute GOD, essence of existence.in state of hinduism, illegality.

    **secularism
    1. a view that religion and religious considerations should be ignored or excluded from social and political matters. Not a matter of consideration but hindu secularism, criminal self center ism to be expelled from place of education in following of truth absolute GOD.
    2. an ethical system asserting that moral judgments should be made without reference to religious doctrine, as reward or punishment in an afterlife. — secularist, n., adj. — secularistic, adj. Secular, an adjective, for a person to be in hinduism, denial of truth absolute GOD, moral, limit, immorality, out side the limit, a hindu denire of truth abolute limit, a secular self centered, just like an animal.

    No, it doesn't necessarily make them "secularist's" if they say they are *unaffiliated.* You will find however that a good majority of "secularist's" are agnostic or atheists. Yes a person claiming to be a hindu secularist or a hindu atheist, criminal self centered is by admission is out side the limit of truth absolute, just like animals, having no place among civil humanity.

    October 17, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
    • Answer

      I wonder if anybody ever reads your garbage.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • brad4nyc

      Sir, I respect views that differ from mine. You, however, are babbling utter nonsense!

      October 17, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Keep on wondering till you fall to truth absolute of life,death, end of choice to commit hinduism, illegality.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      brad4nyc
      Prove it with your knowledge in truth absolute, not with hindu soul, ignorant desire. hindu secularism, criminal self center ism not a the way of human.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • brad4nyc

      You are funny and pathetic at the same time. I feel sorry for you because you can't even construct a cogent sentence! I laugh at you- ha ha ha ha!

      October 17, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      brad4nyc
      nothing more than a cultural ignorance of an NYC atheist goon, read backward like Arabic, hooked nose.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • brad4nyc

      By the way , did you know that dog is god spelled backwards?

      Btw, dogs are cool and gods, well, they can't be un cool because they are imaginary!

      October 17, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      ignorance of a gentile.

      October 17, 2012 at 8:06 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Wow... you finally posted one to me, and... I don't understand a fvcking thing you are talking about.

      Maybe best to *not* post at me, and save your nonsense for others who want to spar with you and your particular brand of *word-salad.*

      Peace...

      October 17, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Your hindu, filthy french is height of your education, knowledge, no different, every hindu secular turn's to hindu, filthy french, instead of accepting truth absolute GOD, hindu criminal secular's self centered are fair game for la. truth abiding and I will target every hindu secular, criminal self centered at will.

      October 17, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @CS

      CS ?????????? 😯

      Peace...

      October 17, 2012 at 8:49 pm |
    • cs

      therealpeace, nope not me.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:38 pm |
  9. brad4nyc

    Theocratic evangelical christians are scary and anti-American and would take away our rights to free speech and freedom of religion (or lack there of). Believe what ever you want, but do not force your beliefs upon me. As Patrick Henry said "I may not believe in what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". I stand by this great American TRUTH. That said, I hope you give me the same basic American rights...

    The bible is a book of myths and lies. God is imaginary and so is hell. If God were real he would be an evil monster. Who gives a rat's behind what the bible say's because it's pure fiction. How can you worship a god that has killed innocent children? If you worship the god of the bible you worship an evil murderer. Thank god that god is imaginary. Only a monster would make people knowing that they would eventually wind up in hell- especially when he had the choice to not make them at all, thus saving them from eternal torture.

    Satan good. God bad. But only from a mythological point of view, because they are both imaginary. Check out http://www.godisimaginary.com

    Praise Lucifer, the bringer of truth, light and reason! Hail Satan, the imaginary adversary to an imaginary god, who has the balls to fight against god's evil ways! Glory be to the mythical beings of Lucifer and Satan who shall slay the evil mythical God of Abraham!!!! Remember what I said about free speech? Are you American enough to accept this concept?

    October 17, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • Sue

      brad4nyc, wonderful post. Thank you. Made my day to read that.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • Boulderdash Gentile

      Sue,

      What do you make parlor to? Flagelisms' mockeries' post-ems or?

      October 17, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
  10. STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

    KRHODES
    Most of the people not claiming to be religious are frustrated with Pharisee ism, hypocrisy of Pharisee's, hypocrites of hinduism corruption of truth absolute called religion's, but very firm in belief to follow truth absolute in life, knowing no other word and understanding of complexity of situation they adopt secularist label to distance from hinduism, criminality of people of religion, except hindu pagan's, follower of hinduism, racism by faith to justify hind, filth of hinduism, racism from hindered gutter of hinduism, racism called india.

    October 17, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • Answer

      Recycled filth as usual.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • Answer To Answer

      Mullah is getting paid by the pounds.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • Answer

      Then they must be some fat fuggers.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:32 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Still blinded to truth absolute and in hind, darkness of hinduism, denial of truth absolute GOD.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
  11. Gahanna mobile apps

    Very exclusive post. i am happy to know about the site. because it is helpful for me. thanks.

    Gahanna mobile apps

    October 17, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
  12. MennoKnight

    ...where the coalition faults him for his use of faith in decision-making

    Everybody does that! I don't care if you are a Mormon, a Christian, a Muslim, or an Atheist you will always use your predominate world view in decision making!
    One of the very reasons why I would not vote for an Atheist is that they have no other guiding principle other than survival of the fittest to guild their decision making.

    I could at least vote for an agnostic because at least they know that they don't know much and they are willing to borrow morality from other world views.

    October 17, 2012 at 6:19 pm |
    • old ben

      ". . . [Atheist] they have no other guiding principle other than survival of the fittest to guild their decision making. "

      Utter bullshit.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:25 pm |
    • MennoKnight

      old ben,
      by swearing and using vulgarity you just proved my point

      October 17, 2012 at 6:40 pm |
    • old ben

      Nice try, MennoKnight, but your claim says quite a bit more than someone using vulgarity. It's simply one of the biggest misconceptions among religious people that they are the only ones with morals, ethics, concern for your fellow citizens, etc.
      "Survival of the fittest?" Yeah, right, M Knight.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • brad4nyc

      At the end of the day it is ALWAYS about survival of the fittest, both metaphorically and literally. Who wins in church politics? The most fit. Who wins the high school meet? The most fit. Who wins at the office? The most fit. Who wins in a fight? The most fit. Who wins the election? The most fit. Who survives a survival situation? The most fit. Who always makes it to the top- regardless of age or gender- in any situation or group- from a church social circle to atheist political committee to survivors stranded on a dessert island-? The most fit.

      By fit I mean a combination of both physical and mental attributes that an individual has relative to the situation she or he is in. Truth be told, a little luck never hurts either.

      The day will come when Americans will wake up to the myth of god and realize that god is imaginary. The trend in the polls is irrefutable. Science and ason will prevail.

      For proof god is imaginary go to http://www.godisimaginary.com

      October 17, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • Answer

      Religious people are unfit, unwell and delusional. They won't survive.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • MennoKnight

      old ben
      Truth hurts?
      Lets look at the great atheist leaders of the 20th century: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot to name a few. Hitler was a strong believer in neoDarwinism and this lead him to his delusional ideas of a "master race"
      Lets look back further to the French Revolution. Millions died in the name of atheism.

      The Western culture is based on the twin pillars of Jerusalem and Athens.
      "The New Testament" is the basis for modern morality.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • MennoKnight

      ....Who wins in church politics? The most fit....

      Nope, the servant does. Look at Billy Graham.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • MennoKnight

      Answer:
      A guy named Voltaire said the same thing in the 1700's, and then the Great Awakening happened within a generation and Christianity spread around the world like never before.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • brad4nyc

      More have been killed in the name of the mythical god and that mythical foul smelling creature from Nazarene Jesus than in the name of anything else. By the way, Hitler was a Christian!

      October 17, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
    • Answer

      @Menno
      Oh yah and then there are the other "Great" events.. like:

      Look this up you pathetic freak –>"Great Disappointment" . Paint the pathetic picture of those Millerites. Let's see you uphold those fools in your words of praise.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
    • Goddog

      Men... You are utterly and completely wrong about Atheists and Atheism. Nothing is ever done "in the name of" Atheism. Also, the morals of the Jewish and Christian faith were borrowed from religions and philosophies before them, but it is ultimately nature... geography and community, that gave birth to morals. I don't know where you get this survival of the fittest idea. It's not an Atheist concept. Remember that Atheists don't pretend like there is a second life after death. Life becomes even more valuable when you don't have some fantasy about forgiveness and eternal life. The way in which you phrase some of your ideas is odd to me.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:51 pm |
    • MennoKnight

      brad4nyc
      I do not deny that many have died in the name of Jesus, but have you ever heard of a thing called the Reformation? I am follower of the Radical Reformation also known as Anabaptism and the branch called Mennonite.
      Hitler was not a Christian, he only used some Christian religious language to win the masses but he was more of a follower of Nordic Mythology mixed with NeoDarwinism.

      October 17, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • MennoKnight

      Goddog

      Wow you just gave an exact illustration to my point, you believe that morals are all relative based on survival of the fittest. So you live your life that way. The problem is survival of the fittest means that you trample over anybody you don't agree with.
      In the bible this is called the "Sin or Animal Nature" of man.

      And we are called to conquered it by the power of Jesus Christ. The first step in this is realizing the world does not revolve around you. Second you are called to live a life of self sacrifice and servanthood. This has immediate consequences for life here on earth. It brings peace and harmony between people. All people are equal and thus valued equally.
      The very basis of secular humanism is based on New Testament Biblical principles.

      Remember that Atheists don't pretend like there is a second life after death. Life becomes even more valuable when you don't have some fantasy about forgiveness and eternal life.
      Forgiveness is the basis of being set free from this "sinful animalistic nature.

      The way in which you phrase some of your ideas is odd to me....

      Thank-you for you last comment and also I truly do thank you for not name calling. All of your questions are VERY good.

      Blessings to you.

      October 17, 2012 at 9:24 pm |
    • Bob

      Goddog – atheists who understand that the brain is physical would be quick to forgive any transgression because no one can be the true cause of anything. Think about it.

      October 17, 2012 at 9:27 pm |
    • mama k

      Hitler was a Christian for sure. People often try to assign blame to atheism for political decisions by some of the world's most ruthless rulers – most of them communist leaders that made all kinds of awful decisions involving people as a means to control them, and removing religion was only one aspect of that control by these few nutcases. (By the way, I encourage readers to read up on the religions that these rulers had at different times in their lives – their personal beliefs are still debated today.)

      Anyway, as another poster stated they never did anything in the name of atheism – they were just hungry for power and control and didn't let anything get in their way. At the time they wanted something, if religion got in the way, they removed it. (You have to think about Billy & Franklin's recent decision about their view of Mormons while you re-read that last line.) Associating these few rulers with atheism is silly. You can just as easily find Christians who have done terrible things – so unless you want people to start saying all Christians can be described by what the few do, then I suggest you come up with something more substantive than this broad accusation.

      Also, Christians have done terrible things across broad periods of time specifically in the name of their religion. So maybe I should start highlighting those events and posting them to better support that notion – I get the impression some readers haven't been educated well in history. I mean if they are assuming that the U.S. was founded on Christianity, then I kind of have to assume they may not know much about the various inquisitions and other things they should know. I'm sure there are some that don't yet know about those periods.

      And reformation? Hah. One of the reasons the U.S. has the separation of church and state so clearly defined is because of terrible religious persecution going on in several states (or soon to be states) that upset people like Madison and Jefferson so much, it was a priority issue for them to get that amendment in there as #1 despite their own religious leanings. They were not happy at all with any of the religious institutions they had grown up with by the time they were trying to solidify the new government. Let's see, everyone quotes Jefferson, but I like this quote from James Madison, the 4th POTUS and chief architect of the U.S. Constitution:

      During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

      (A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the Virginia General Assembly, 1785)
      (you can find numerous quotes from JM like this over decades by the way)

      (MennoKnight might know at least something about James Madison if he has been to the Mennonite settlement and EMC close to my alma mater: Madison College (now JMU) in Harrisonburg, VA.)

      By the way, in case you're just waking up from a dream that has lasted your whole life, you should already be aware that Christians are experts at declaring at various times that other Christians "are not Christian". Why is this? Because it is built into the religion from the beginning. Some of them are very good people, but there are also many of them that are experts in being fork-tongued and two-faced. (I think we see a bit of that going on now with the Graham people for the sake of politics.) The Bible allows the Christian to pick any side of any fight and be able to support it from scripture. It's easy to find those contradictory tools – you can even google them. I didn't learn them that way – I wound up noticing that from studying Christianity over many years and observing how people applied basic tenets and individual passages.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:32 pm |
    • mama k

      I said in my fourth paragraph: "persecution going on in several states " .
      For clarity, this should have stated to indicate past tense, as in: "persecution that was going on in several states" (since I was describing the state of things around the time of the founding of the U.S.).

      October 17, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
  13. Squeezebox

    Secularism is a plot by Satan to control the world and cause the apocalypse. Aetheists are just Satan's dupes. I'd sooner trust a pagan or a moslem than an aetheist.

    October 17, 2012 at 6:18 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Suggested by Lucifer, self centered Atheist, secular and preached and practiced by hindu Jew, criminal self centered, secular, son of Lucifer, secular costarring himself to be truth absolute GOD. hinduism, illegality of hindu's, criminals.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
    • brad4nyc

      Of course both are imaginary beings, but the true story is Satan is GOOD and God is EVIL. Satan tapped God on the shoulder and asked God please don't flood the earth and kill all those innocent children. God answered and said "Bra ha ha ha! I am allmighty god and can do what I want. It would please me to see those babies drown in agony! Bra ha ha ha!". Satan said "that's wack, dude! You are one cruel, sick, evil monster". So Satan left heaven and promised to help mankind against the evil imaginary God. Then one day all the people grew up and realized God and Satan are both imaginary and they went away hand in hand as boyfriends forever. That is after God asked Satan's forgiveness for all of the mean spiteful things he did. The End.

      For proof God is Imaginary visit http://www.godisimaginary.com

      October 17, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
  14. KRHODES

    "At a time when the Pew Forum determined the religiously unaffiliated are the fastest growing “religious” group in America, with one in five Americans not affiliated with any religion, "

    Does that make them secularist...not being affiliated with a religion? That does not mean they are atheist or agnostics if i am reading that correctly.

    October 17, 2012 at 6:18 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @KRHODES

      You Wrote: " Does that make them secularist...not being affiliated with a religion? That does not mean they are atheist or agnostics if i am reading that correctly. "

      **sec·u·lar·ism
      n.
      1. Religious skepticism or indifference.
      2. The view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education.
      secu·lar·ist n.

      **secularism
      n
      1. (Philosophy) Philosophy a doctrine that rejects religion, esp in ethics
      2. the att-itude that religion should have no place in civil affairs
      3. the state of being secular

      **secularism
      1. a view that religion and religious considerations should be ignored or excluded from social and political matters.
      2. an ethical system asserting that moral judgments should be made without reference to religious doctrine, as reward or punishment in an afterlife. — secularist, n., adj. — secularistic, adj.

      No, it doesn't necessarily make them "secularist's" if they say they are *unaffiliated.* You will find however that a good majority of "secularist's" are agnostic or atheists.

      Peace...

      October 17, 2012 at 6:30 pm |
    • KRHODES

      therealpeace2all

      "No, it doesn't necessarily make them "secularist's" if they say they are *unaffiliated.* You will find however that a good majority of "secularist's" are agnostic or atheists.

      Peace..."

      Well I realize most if not all atheist and agnostics are secularist, but being religiously unaffiliated does not make one either of those...that could mean about anything. I think the article is reaching a little on that point.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:50 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @KRHODES

      " Well I realize most if not all atheist and agnostics are secularist, but being religiously unaffiliated does not make one either of those "

      I already confirmed **agreed** with you, in the affirmative in my post to you, about your point. I was just adding that most or the majority of secularist's are agnostic or atheist.

      Peace...

      October 17, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • Dippy

      It's "secularists", not "secularist's". Apostrophes are never used in forming plurals.

      October 17, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Dippy

      Yes, of course... my bad. Thank you for the heads-up.

      Regards,

      Peace...

      October 17, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
  15. STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

    hinduism, denial of truth absolute GOD, an hind, insult to civility.
    Teddy- Tallahassee
    HINDU KALI – GODDESS OF VIOLENCE/TERRORISM

    A recent report by United Press trust of India (UPI) stated that during the past three years more than 2,500 young boys and girls were sacrificed to goddess Kali in India. Another of AFP's recent reports say: hundreds of young boys and virgin girls are sacrificed every month for the deity Kali. In one case Rama Sewak hacked his eight year old son to death in broad daylight in Delhi because goddess Kali had told him he would come back to life and bring him good fortune. Bloodthirsty Kali is worshipped openly the length and breadth of India. Kali's statue stands naked astride the inanimate body of the Hindu deity Shiva, tongue stuck out with blood dripping from fang-like teeth. She holds a noose, a skull-topped staff, a blood-encrusted sword and a severed head. She is also known as Durga, Devi, Shaktima, Uma and Parvathi in other manifestations. The priest of Delhi, Kali Bari, says that a child sacrificed to Kali ensures a man the birth of a son. Human sacrifices are also made to these gods or goddesses, either to appease them or to ask favours of them.

    maria
    Disgusting. Where are the human right people??????

    Charimonov Caminsky
    With such "Dark Age" culture still in existence in India how can the world be healthy and the neighbors prosperous. India poses a grave danger to the world and its deities and leaders set a bad example. Mahatma Gandhi, a pedophile, needs to be exposed and tried posthumously for his child molestation crimes just like the Penn State crowd Sandusky et al. Gandhi's statutes need to be knocked down everywhere they have been put in USA. The hindu deities need to be shattered and trashed. Disgusting figurines of ugly and scary looking characters with demonic personalities. How can hindu children grow up mentally stable looking at such atrocious representations of evil in its most heinous form.
    To learn more about hinduism, illegality , a hind, crime against truth absolute GOD and humanity visit limiisthetruth.com

    October 17, 2012 at 5:33 pm |
    • biobraine

      Have you thought about getting professional help for your issues?

      October 17, 2012 at 5:36 pm |
    • George Patton

      Good we need send KALI Goddess to Afghanistan, feed all mother fvking muslim terrorists, Taliban to KALI.

      October 17, 2012 at 5:39 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      World need to eliminate hinduism, illegality and hindu's, criminals along hindu fabricated god's made of clay by following truth absolute GOD, foundation of American consti tution to have peace, Islam among humanity. hinduism, denial of truth absolute, an insult to be called human.

      October 17, 2012 at 5:54 pm |
    • George Patton

      World need to eliminate Satan followers like you.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:01 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Every hindu, denire of truth absolute, atheist, self centered is a child of hindu filthy Lucifer, self centered and deserve nothing less for their hindu Judaism, filthy secular ism, but elimination to have peace , Islam on earth.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:06 pm |
    • George Patton

      Shut up you Satanist.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:08 pm |
    • George Patton

      Your Muhammed was a FAKE deal, dolt.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:09 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Only by hinduism, ignorance of a hindu, denier of truth absolute GOD.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
    • George Patton

      stick a shovel full of Alla's truth up your as *s. Mohameed was a pedo.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:34 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      And you are a hindu, ignorant by faith.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • YOUR NEW HINDU DAD

      SON, GET OFF THE INTERNETS AND HELP YOUR MOM WITH THE CHORES

      SHE'S STILL WALKING FUNNY FROM LAST NIGHT IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN

      October 17, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      I assure you Hindu, it was a mechanical dil do malfunction, but not you.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      sorry Human, I am possessed by too many devils, one tells me to curse Hindus Jews Christians, other makes me to curse my own father, mothers, and my Haramee brothers, and dancing sisters. I need help. If you don't believe me visit my like Catch Me If You Can.com and click on FilthyMe to open file.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:41 pm |
  16. biobraine

    Most of the world's population has been indoctrinated with religion since they could speak. Which one people believe to be true among all the others is mostly due to where in the world they were born. Imagine if this were not the case and all of the evidence from the major world religions was presented to people that grew up without religion. What sounds so believable to the religious in this world would sound like complete bull to those that did not receive the brainwashing.

    October 17, 2012 at 5:23 pm |
    • Boulderdash Gentile

      Hello bb,

      "Indoctrinations" are yes learned as character traits yet it is in the/any child's social peers where their positive character structures become either merged or submerged. I believe in any young child being given choices religiously and even being taught about those who deny god and tend to make a mockery of many if not all religiously devoted be they young or even old. What I believe in, you would never consider let alone understand. Science has concluded that our bodies are biological machines and the Gospels proclaim that one's body is but a building where God and God's brethren inhabit. Even machines be they biological or created by man needs operators in order to complete tasks.

      What is Life? Is Life the mastery of logical biologies and are such biologic mechanisms truly doing their tasks without any masters to control them? How is it whereby cellular harmonies of many different embodied cellular structures co-babitate all together in peacefulness and without bedlam or destruction? Is it not written that the kingdom of God is inside Life-as-we-know-it? Christians of Faith-in-one God do yes, read doctrines of Faith. Today's One-God religions have muddied Godliness in their holier than thou perceptions and many God-endorphined folks are shackled and chained due their own life fallacies. Many self-professed pastoral folk have the almighty dollar in their eyes in order for them to be afloat and in the limelights of publicity.

      My God and His families live inside my body and in my taking in of and consumming food and drink, they do take in nourishment and needful things to keep their building/kingdom (one's body) afloat. Your God and His families live within your body/Godly building. My God is not your God nor is anybody else's God our God. Every single 'body' has but one God and we will not meet our body's God until we are dead and then ascend into the body we once thought in control of but only granted consciousness and awareness of the outer-world we call our world.

      October 17, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • biobrain

      BG,
      You wrote: "I believe in any young child being given choices religiously and even being taught about those who deny god and tend to make a mockery of many if not all religiously devoted be they young or even old. What I believe in, you would never consider let alone understand."

      The religious mock others just as much as the non-religious. So lets not point fingers my friend. Something you are forgetting- the vast majority of us who have rejected religion have done so after years of going to church and reading the bible. We have considered what you want us to believe and firmly rejected it as hogwash. I am all for allowing a child to choose their spiritual path. But, apart from someone like myself who is agnostic, very few other people would do this, yourself included. If you are Christian, you would not take your child to a Hindu temple. I have been to Christian services, Hindu temples, Muslim mosques, and even a Baha'i temple. I doubt you ever have. I really don't care what you believe in. I'm just tired of you and other religious people pretending they have moral superiority over whoever doesn't belong to their faith.

      As for your explanation of biological processes, I would recommend you start with cellular biology and end with a good book on genetics.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:53 pm |
    • Boulderdash Gentile

      bb,

      "As for your explanation of biological processes, I would recommend you start with cellular biology and end with a good book on genetics.

      October 17, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • Boulderdash Gentile

      bb,

      "As for your explanation of biological processes, I would recommend you start with cellular biology and end with a good book on genetics."

      To my understandings of cellular biologies, I have seen many others' machine-claims and yet they fail to have faith in these machines needing operators to give them orders to perform such tasks on the genetic levels. Even the Star Wars' Jedi called the operators of encelled machines "Midichlorians" instead of Gods and the "Force" came from the Beings that inhabit the body. Nanotechnology of our kind are but crude illustrations of the Biology Trees of living cellular systems we view as Life.

      October 17, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • biobrain

      So you're into Scientology eh? Not that there's anything wrong with that...

      October 17, 2012 at 10:15 pm |
  17. haha

    The Secular Coalition: because tolerance means flunking politicians who believe differently than you do.

    October 17, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @haha

      We already have that now. It would be virtually impossible at this point for a muslim, hindu, buddhist to become president. And literally impossible for an agnostic or atheist to become president.

      You're right, our "Christian" society has -0- tolerance.

      Peace...

      October 17, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • ME II

      I would suggest that tolerance means a government that treats all citizens the same regardless of religion or non-religion. By extrapolation (?) that means a secular government.

      October 17, 2012 at 5:18 pm |
    • STOP MURDER OF CHILDREN , Human be aware of hindu filthy dog's of hindu Atheism, self center ism , DENIAL OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD.

      Foundation of Christianity, but hindu Mithraism, pagan savior ism in reality is based on hinduism, racism, a crime aginst consti tution of USA, so is hindu secular ism, criminal Judaism, having no place in America or place of any civility.

      October 17, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
  18. hippypoet

    i can fly. i had a personal expierence that proves it. i read in a book once that people could fly so that is the proof for you and you just have to take my story on faith that i am not lieing but can infact fly...now, what do you do?

    i must be superhuman if i can really fly, and so i must be a god or at the very least the son of one right?

    now people worship me and pay me to talk to them and teach them stuff....when they ask me to show them how to fly i referr them to books written by me they can purchase describing the topic in detail. When they ask me to fly for them...well it takes me a long time to meditate to get to the frame of mind to do it right, or i could go terribly off course – you wouldn't want that to happen would you?

    then i say something along the lines of "i will return" and then i leave.

    take this on faith –

    i swear to me it happened – that should be sufficient. plus, i never told a lie. i swear. oh yeah i forget to mention that if you choose not to believe in me then your soul goes to hell...why would you wish for that upon yourself? isn't it better to just believe in case it is real? i can fly, follow me and i will teach you how...trust not me but yourselves and your abilities...love yourself and all is possible...i CAN fly, so can you...just believe, have faith, and take that leap!

    October 17, 2012 at 4:49 pm |
    • Bob

      Talk to us when millions of people believe in you and have similar experiences to embolden them, and when unexplained miracles happen in your name, then you might have something.

      October 17, 2012 at 5:16 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bob,
      You misunderstand. All those unexplained miracles you, and the millions of others, attribute to some other deity were really done by @hippypoet.

      October 17, 2012 at 5:24 pm |
    • Bob

      But they never referred to him by name the way they did Jesus...

      It would be nice if everything really was like everything else and there was no actual truths, but unfortunately, we have too much evidence in God's favor, and none of us are doing a spectacular job at doing things the way He likes them done.

      October 17, 2012 at 5:39 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      "too much evidence in God's favor,"

      Such as????

      "none of us are doing a spectacular job at doing things the way He likes them done."

      how do you even know how this god wants things done?

      October 17, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
    • fred

      Hippy
      I do not understand where the evidence fails. The Bible says if you believe in me I will send the Holy Spirit that will dwell in your heart and guide you in all truth. I did that and found the Bible was different from when I trashed it as a non believer. I did as the Bible said and asked that Jesus come into my life which Jesus did through the Holy Spirit. Ask and you shall receive. I asked and wonders of this world and the things of God which I could not see before became clear.
      Exactly how does that fail as evidence?

      October 17, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Your claim has as much validity and credibility as hippy's claim that he can fly, fred. That you don't understand that anecdotes do not equal evidence is hardly surprising.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      fred: Seriously??? The Bible says therefore??? Rather circular and self fulfilling!! Of course it says that stuff, it wants you to accept it as the only truth out there when in fact most of what is stated in it has been dis-proven by science (ie; virgin birth, the great flood, resurrection). Your failure to see past it does not make it any more truthful.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • mama k

      By the way, fred, you owe me a reply under the topic of "Christian Case for Gay Marriage", where you lumped together unprotected sex, alcolhol abuse and drugs as "risky" behavioral problems of the gay community. You answered part of that, but I still haven't heard back about the drugs and alchohol – you know some statistics to back that claim up.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • mama k

      typo correction: alcohol – I know Tom's watching. lol.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • Answer

      Fred can't even see beyond the tip of his own nose. Always the pathetic bible thumper.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • fred

      TruthPrevails 🙂
      You once believed did you not know what God wanted ?

      October 17, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • thecollegeadmissionsguru

      @Fred, you say the bible says it all, that if you believe that somehow it will be revealed. The truth is, the only thing revealed to you is what others want you to believe/know. Wake up man, think for yourself.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • Bob

      No substantial evidence of the Christian god's existence, or that Jesus was actually divine, has ever been produced.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • fred

      Copycat fred, I'm surprised you still post here. Thu/i>mp thum/i>p thum/i>p thum/i>p thu/i>mp th/i>ump thu/i>mp thu/i>mp thu/i>mp thu/i>mp of your book of storytales. So much thu/i>mping noise, no evidence. Thu/i>mp seems the only sound you can make, but your bible is largely myths and your god would be genocidal maniac and rights abuser if he existed.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • fred

      Tom Tom

      Hippy don’t fly! That’s the difference between my account and a lie!

      October 17, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • fred

      TruthPrevails
      “what is stated in it has been dis-proven by science (ie; virgin birth, the great flood, resurrection).”
      =>That is news to me as science when using scientific methods cannot disprove; the virgin birth, the great flood or the resurrection. They may have theories about it today about such things based on certain assumptions . Unfortunately science must change the assumptions given in the Bible which is nonsense.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • fred

      thecollegeadmissionsguru
      My experience with God was based on a Bible and revelation that came as I read. There was no outside influence for several days. It was not my Bible I did not believe in God or own a Bible at the time.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hippy most certainly does fly. I've seen him with my own eyes.

      So there, ferd the turd.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • fred

      If Jesus is not divine why does that name carry the power it does 2,000 years later? If there is no God why do the hairs on your neck stand up when I say God loves you BOB!!! Don’t forget God made a big sacrifice just because he LOVED BOB.
      That was not finger nails scratching on a black board which just raised the hair on your back.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • fred

      TOM TOM
      That is the difference between an imaginary sky daddy and God who exists but cannot be seen. With faith I will never see sky daddy hippy fly. With faith I have seen the whole of existence which includes the spiritual.
      To your enjoyment quantum physics now speculates and is seeking to prove that consciousness exists in a different dimension. They still do not like to use the word “soul” just matter that exists apart from the physical.

      October 17, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Any bozo can claim to have seen something, ferd the turd. Doesn't mean that they actually did see anything, and if they did see something, there's proof it was real.

      They're called delusions.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • mama k

      fred: the Bible is writings that involve questionable stories, questionable characters and folklore, some of which is rehashed folklore. It is slipping away from the believers and younger people for good reason – people more than ever require credible proof of something before they are going to believe it. Written folklore from millennia ago isn't credible proof of anything and more and more people are noticing this. If there really was credible proof of any of the main events in Christianity, it would most likely be the only religion on the planet by now. Same goes for the other major religions. I think most people would agree in this day and age that the god of Abraham and the various characters that support the notion of that god is the unknown in the argument here, but you can keep calling for "disproof", but I think you will more and more be wasting your time arguing with people that way. People want credible proof of the existence of the god of Abraham, they want credible proof of the resurrection, they want credible proof of Paul's vision. If you can't supply any of that, then just say you can't and move on.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:25 pm |
    • mama k

      And Tom why is millennia correct? My FF keeps highlighting that word. My goodness.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:26 pm |
    • mama k

      Sorry – not why, but is that the correct spelling? Well it is in the mac dictionary, but FF highlights it – oh well, I guess that's correct.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:27 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @mama k

      OED: millennium, n. Plural millennia

      October 17, 2012 at 11:31 pm |
    • mama k

      Thank you "I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV" – I guess I need to put in a note to the FF or Mozilla people about that. It is showing in the mac dictionary. Well, I have to assume that in forms, somehow the browser is marking the word as if it is misspelled. Unless it is the website. Hmm. But thanks, anyway.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:38 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @mama,

      at least you have a spell checker. Internet Explorer does not.

      I have to do it old school. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. Best of luck keeping @fred on topic. I think he means very well.

      October 17, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
    • fred

      mama k
      “ Bible is writings that involve questionable stories, questionable characters and folklore, some of which is rehashed folklore.”
      =>exactly! Even Jesus said he spoke in parables so that those with ears could hear and those with eyes could see. Seek and you shall find Jesus said. When you glace over this web site it is very easy to see how people find exactly what they are looking for in the Bible. It is the Word of God and does not return empty. Some on this web site will call God a killer, endorser of slavery and rapist based on the Bible. That is the exact opposite of the Bibles characterization of God yet they found what they were looking for and the intent and disposition of their heart was revealed. Some contrive conflict between current evolution theory and Genesis simply to cover the fact they cannot answer the questions about the origin of life. The origin of life is self evident the cover of darkness is what obscures. That cover is often termed the unknown by non believers while the Bible calls it blinders. You miss a great deal when you refuse to seek the truth in the questionable. Jesus spit on some dirt and made mud rubbing it on the blind mans eyes. The blind man ran off joyfully because he could see. Story? According to Genesis man was made in the image of God formed from the dust of earth so he could see God. Jesus again with the dust of the earth gave this man eyes to see God. It is not rehashed folklore but a wake up call to the truth. Remove that cover of darkness that is blinding you.
      That is what I see in these stories and questionable characters.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
  19. biobraine

    Most of the religous would not vote for an agnostic or athiest. This removes many of our best and brightest from consideration (or forces them to pretend to believe in something they know as false). Each religious group claims to have the one truth while simultaneously denouncing the very many other belief systems as well as those who don't believe in any religion. Nobody knows if gods exist or not. It isn't surprising that people are waking up and abandoning the empty promises of religion. What is amazing to me is that it's not happening even faster.

    October 17, 2012 at 4:36 pm |
  20. 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

    Please vote for Obama – the least delusional candidate with a chance to win.

    October 17, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      We need the example of yet another Republican administration before we can ban them. Besides, I'm spending more time in Canada these days.

      October 17, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.