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 President Obama speaking from the pulpit of a Washington church in 2010.
October 27th, 2012
10:00 PM ET
In Obama’s first term, an evolving Christian faith and a more evangelical styleEditor's note: This is the last in a series about the faith lives of the presidential candidates, which includes a profile of Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney. By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor Washington (CNN) – President Obama’s prayers for a strong first debate may not have been answered, but that doesn’t mean the prayers weren’t happening. Before he stepped onto a Colorado stage earlier this month to face off with Mitt Romney for the first time, Obama joined a conference call with a small circle of Christian ministers. “The focus of that prayer was, ‘Oh, Lord, you know precisely what the president needs to say,'” says Kirbyjon Caldwell, a Methodist megachurch pastor from Texas who helped lead the call. “'You know what this country needs during the next four years.’” “'And so I would pray that your primary will and words that you want the president to say will fall from his lips,'” Caldwell goes on, recalling his prayer. Obama, for his part, was mostly silent. “There’s a profound and genuine humility in the presence of Christ himself,” Caldwell says, describing the president on such calls. “I think he recognizes it as a holy moment.” It was the second time Caldwell and Obama had prayed by phone in as many months. The two had connected in August on a prayer call Obama has hosted on his birthday every year since coming to the White House. Welcome to the intense, out-of-the-box and widely misunderstood religious life of President Barack Obama. Though he famously left his controversial pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the year he was elected to the presidency, a handful of spiritual advisers close to Obama say that his time in office has significantly deepened his faith. The making of a candidate: Mitt Romney’s faith journey Stephen Mansfield, a former Christian pastor who wrote the book “The Faith of Barack Obama,” goes so far to say that Obama has experienced a spiritual transformation. “I think we do have at heart a new man, so to speak,” says Mansfield, who worked closely with the White House and with some Obama religious advisers on his book. “He has undergone a pretty significant personal religious change in his first term.”  Methodist minister Kibyjon Caldwell, right, has grown close to President Obama after serving as a spiritual counselor to President George W. Bush. Here, Caldwell and Bush share a stage in 2003. Obama’s faith advisers say Mansfield goes a step too far, though they acknowledge that when it comes to his faith, Obama has changed. “There is a deepening development in his relationship with God,” says Joel Hunter, a Florida-based pastor who has been in touch with Obama nearly every week since he took office. “He chooses to stay faithful in daily habits of study and prayer and consistent times of interchange with spiritual leaders.” “I am not sure he did that before he came to the presidency.” Whether or not Obama has been spiritually “reborn” in the evangelical sense, his spiritual counselors say the president’s faith has helped shape his first term in ways that haven’t been appreciated by voters or the news media. And they say the presidency is bringing Obama to a new place in his faith - building on a system of belief and practice that helped bring him to the White House in the first place. Talking like Billy Graham These days, when the president talks about his faith, he sounds like a born-again Christian. Addressing the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington this year, Obama recalled meeting the nation’s most iconic evangelical Christian, Billy Graham, and described his struggle to find the right words as he prayed aloud with the aging evangelist. “Like that verse in Romans, the Holy Spirit interceded when I didn’t know quite what to say,” Obama told the gathering, invoking the New Testament. It was hardly the only part of the speech where Obama was speaking “Christianese” – employing a lexicon familiar to evangelical Christians, who put a premium on quoting Scripture and communing directly with the Holy Spirit. Understanding Barack Obama’s gospel At the same breakfast, Obama spoke of spending time every morning in “Scripture and devotion” and dropped the names of “friends like Joel Hunter or T.D. Jakes,” both well-known pastors of evangelical megachurches. “He was talking like Billy Graham” at the breakfast, says Mansfield, who also wrote an admiring spiritual biography of former President George W. Bush. Even in the more secular setting of the Democratic National Convention, Obama hinted at an intense White House prayer life, along with his need for God’s grace.  Some say President Obama sounds like an evangelical when he speaks about his religion, echoing the famous evangelist Billy Graham. The two men met at Graham's mountaintop home in North Carolina home in 2010. “While I'm proud of what we've achieved together, I'm far more mindful of my own failings,” Obama said in his acceptance speech, “knowing exactly what Lincoln meant when he said, ‘I have been driven to my knees many times by the overwhelming conviction that I had no place else to go.’" Such pious talk marks a departure from how the president discussed his faith life before his White House years. Back then, Obama cited his religion more as a basis for social action than for spiritual sustenance. He would temper declarations of belief with affirmations of doubt. Asked in a 2004 interview whether he prayed often, Obama, then a candidate for U.S. Senate in Illinois, responded: “Uh, yeah, I guess I do.” In a 2007 interview with the Chicago Sun-Times, Obama voiced skepticism about Scripture. “There are aspects of the Christian tradition that I’m comfortable with and aspects that I’m not,” he said. “There are passages of the Bible that make perfect sense to me and others that I go ‘Ya know, I’m not sure about that.’” These days, Obama forgoes such equivocations in favor of a full-throated Christianity. To Mansfield, the evolution of Obama’s comments on religion bespeak a born-again experience, prompted largely by the president’s break with Wright and his arrival into a circle of spiritual counselors that includes many evangelicals. The White House declined requests to speak to Obama. But Hunter, the president’s closest spiritual counselor, says Obama has technically been a born-again Christian for more than 25 years, since accepting Jesus at Wright’s Chicago church in the 1980s. But it's in the last four years that the president has become more evangelical in his habits. He now begins each morning reading Christian devotionals on his Blackberry. And then there’s the circle of pastors Obama has begun praying with before big events like the first presidential debate. A circle of evangelicals After landing in Washington following his 2008 election, Obama shopped around for a new church. But he wound up making his spiritual home instead among a circle of far-flung pastors that includes Hunter, Jakes and Caldwell, the minister from Texas. Conference calls with the group started while Obama was still a presidential candidate, including on the night of his 2008 victory. The president-elect spoke by phone with Hunter and other Christian ministers, rejoicing in victory but also grieving the death of his grandmother, who helped raise him, just a few days earlier. The migration from Wright – who almost brought down Obama’s campaign with videos that showed him sermonizing about “God damn America” and “the U.S. of KKK A” – to this new group, says Mansfield, has been underappreciated. “[Obama] went into the Oval Office … questioning the only pastor he’d ever had,” Mansfield says. “Wright left him humiliated.” “And there were deeper questions about the theology that [Obama] had received,” Mansfield continues. “Some part of Wright’s religious orientation had failed.” CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Where Wright is a liberal mainline Protestant, emphasizing liberation and social action, Obama’s new circle of pastors includes theologically conservative evangelicals like Hunter and Jakes, who stress God’s grace and personal transformation. Mansfield notes that the chaplain who has presided for the last few years at Camp David, where Obama spends many Sundays, is also an evangelical. Some of Obama’s spiritual counselors credit Joshua DuBois, executive director of the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships, with leading Obama to a more evangelical-flavored Christianity. Caldwell calls him the president’s personal pastor. A former associate pastor at a Pentecostal church in Boston, DuBois is the one responsible for sending Obama Scriptures and scriptural meditations five days a week; Hunter does it on the other two days.  The evangelical pastor Joel Hunter, center, and White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships Executive Director Joshua DuBois, right, are the President’s closest religious counselors. Here they are in February. DuBois convenes a daily 8:15 a.m. conference call with pastors to pray for the country and the president, who is not on the call. (Lately, those calls have also included prayers for Mitt Romney.) And it’s DuBois who organized the president’s circle of spiritual advisers. After graduate school at Princeton, DuBois talked his way onto Obama’s staff at the U.S. Senate, repeatedly driving to Washington to make his case after job applications were rejected. When Obama launched his presidential campaign a few years later, DuBois was plucked as its faith outreach director. The 30-year-old White House aide plays down his influence on his boss. “He has always been on a Christian journey,” DuBois says of Obama, “and the challenges of the office, of being leader of the free world, provides a deepening and strengthening of faith, and that’s what you see with the president.” “I remember working with him around the Scripture he would use at the memorial service for the miners in West Virginia,” DuBois says, referring to the 2010 tragedy that left 29 dead. “These are obviously moments when one's faith is strengthened.” The unparalleled trials of the Oval Office have been known to deepen the religiosity of presidents ranging from Abraham Lincoln to Ronald Reagan. Hunter says the same thing has happened to this president: “His faith has been growing as the challenges of the presidency have become more naturally the main part of his own everyday life.” Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter One of Hunter’s first Oval Office encounters with Obama came shortly after the president took office, at a time when the economy was shedding 750,000 jobs a month. “He acknowledged at that meeting what many may know but few remember: that by the time issues get to the president, there are no simple or clear answers or they would have been solved by others,” Hunter says. “So we prayed.” A few months later, Hunter was in the Oval Office again, noticing that “the unremitting heaviness of the office was setting in.” “I saw something that has been consistent ever since: He cannot just pray for himself and his family,” Hunter says by e-mail. “At least I have never seen it. His faith, his heart, always includes those who are being left out through no fault of their own.” Despite the changes they’ve seen in Obama, both Hunter and DuBois are uncomfortable with the word “transformation” when it comes to Obama’s White House faith life. “The president doesn’t deal in labels,” says DuBois. “He knows God’s grace is sufficient for him and beyond that doesn’t get into labels, evangelical or mainline. He’s a proud Christian.” Loving God by loving your neighbor When the Rev. Sharon Watkins and a group of fellow Protestant ministers sat down with Obama at the White House a couple years into the president’s term, she knew the pastors would get wonky about religion. “You get a bunch of ministers in the room and we’re all church geeks – it’s theological,” says Watkins, who along with the other pastors had come to talk about poverty. “But the president got every biblical allusion and reference. … He’s just a person who is biblically and theologically literate.” If Obama’s personal theology has grown more conservative, he is inclined to apply it toward liberal political ends. “I’d be remiss if my values were limited to personal moments of prayer or private conversations with pastors or friends,” Obama said at the National Prayer Breakfast in February. “So instead, I must try - imperfectly, but I must try - to make sure those values motivate me as one leader of this great nation.” In signing laws that have increased Wall Street regulations and stopped health insurance companies from rejecting patients with preexisting conditions, Obama said at the breakfast, he wanted to “make the economy stronger for everybody.” “But I also do it because I know that far too many neighbors in our country have been hurt and treated unfairly over the last few years,” he continued. “And I believe in God’s command to ‘love thy neighbor as thyself.’”  Obama and first lady Michelle Obama and their daughters Malia and Sasha leave church after attending a Sunday prayer service. Obama went on to frame decisions as disparate as ending tax breaks for the wealthy and defending foreign aid as examples of biblical principles in action, quoting Jesus’ teaching that “for unto whom much is given, much shall be required” and invoking the “biblical call to care for the least of these.” That last biblical reference also loomed large in another 2011 White House meeting between Obama and a group of religious leaders. They’d come to urge the president to protect programs for the poor amid his fight with Congress over raising the nation’s debt ceiling. The Rev. Jim Wallis, a progressive activist, recalls the meeting: In pressing Obama to take cuts to those programs off the table, one Roman Catholic bishop told the president that “the text that we are obliged to obey does not say ‘as you have done to the middle class you have done to me.’” “It says as you’ve done to the least of these, you have done to me,” the bishop said. “So there was this very rigorous conversation,” Wallis says, “and we pressed him on applying Matthew 25 to this decision about protecting those who were the least of these.” Ultimately, the programs that the religious leaders were lobbying for were protected in the debt ceiling deal, though it’s unclear how big a role the religious leaders played. For liberal Christians, such victories embody the justice of the social gospel, the idea that believers should do God’s work – even aid the Second Coming - by improving society. “I do notice that sometimes, like on health care, when [Obama] says it’s the right thing to do, it’s him saying you love God by loving your neighbor,” says Watkins, who leads a mainline denomination called Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). “He’s doing the best he can to be guided by God so he can be a faithful follower of Christ.” Skeptics might write off Obama’s Bible talk as sanctimonious window dressing, aimed at no higher purpose than connecting with churchgoers in the purple and red states. But translating the Good Book into progressive politics has always been a mainstay of Obama’s political biography. ‘An awesome God in the blue states’ When Obama landed on Chicago’s South Side in 1985 as an idealistic 23-year-old, eager to start work as a community organizer, he was already a political liberal. He was also a man without a religion, the son of a spiritual-but-not-religious mother whom he would later describe as “a lonely witness for secular humanism” and an estranged African father who was born a Muslim but died an atheist. Obama’s work in Chicago, built around causes like tenants’ rights and job training for laid-off workers, was steeped in religion. His salary was paid by a coalition of churches. And the job took him into many black churches, among the most influential institutions in the neighborhood he was organizing, including Wright’s Trinity United Church of Christ. After a lifelong struggle to fit in, set in motion by his mixed-race parents, Trinity felt like home. “I came to realize that without a vessel for beliefs, without an unequivocal commitment to a particular community of faith,” he wrote later, “I would be consigned at some level to always remain apart.”  The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who brought Obama to Christianity, ignited controversy that almost brought down Obama's 2008 presidential campaign. The changes that Wright’s church wrought weren’t just personal. Baptism and active membership there equipped Obama with an ability to connect with churchgoers he was trying to organize – and, years later, with religious voters he was trying to win over – in a deeper way. Wright, who did not respond to interview requests for this story, gave Obama a moral framework for his liberal politics. The pastor espoused a black liberation theology that equates Jesus’ life and death with the plight of those who Wright saw as disenfranchised, from African-Americans to Palestinians. “Wright is the religious version of almost everything Obama already believed without religion,” says Mansfield, who spent time at Trinity for his book. “It’s a support of oppressed people anywhere in the world.” When Obama emerged on the national stage, his comfortable religiosity and sensitivity to the concerns of churchgoing Americans helped distinguish him as a Democrat. “We worship an awesome God in the blue states,” he declared to huge applause in his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, catching the attention of young Christians like Joshua DuBois. But at that same convention, Obama’s party nominated John Kerry, a candidate who eschewed God talk and who lost his own Catholic demographic on Election Day. Four years later, Obama hired religious outreach staffers like DuBois for his presidential campaign and made a point of meeting with Christian Right leaders who’d never before heard from a Democratic presidential nominee. Obama went on to win in places like Indiana and North Carolina, evangelical-heavy states that a Democratic presidential nominee hadn’t taken in decades. If the Rev. Wright had almost brought down his presidential campaign, the controversial minister had also long ago laid the groundwork for Obama to connect with the churchgoing voters who had turned their backs on Kerry. The politics of confusion As president, the line between Obama’s personal convictions and his political prowess on religious matters can sometimes be hard to discern. Obama invited the conservative evangelical megapastor Rick Warren to give the invocation at his 2009 inauguration, ruffling liberal feathers. He introduced an annual Easter prayer breakfast as a new White House tradition. He gives shout-outs to young evangelical leaders in major speeches.  Obama asked evangelical pastor Rick Warren to pray at his inauguration, riling some of the president's liberal supporters. All can be seen as genuine reflections of Obama’s faith and his appreciation for the role of religious leaders in public life. And in a nation where more people believe in angels than in evolution - a fact that the president himself has publicly noted - all promise political benefits. The same could be said for Obama’s predecessor, George W. Bush, and for presidents as diverse as Jimmy Carter and Reagan: All had deep spiritual streaks that enabled the political art of courting religious Americans, especially evangelicals. The irony, in Obama’s case, is that despite his orthodox utterances - there’s “something about the resurrection of our savior, Jesus Christ, that puts everything else in perspective,” he said at this year's Easter breakfast - polls continue to show widespread confusion about his faith. Only half the country can correctly identify Obama as Christian, according to one recent Pew poll, while 17% falsely believe he is a Muslim. “He’s a Christian and he professes his Christian faith - I don’t know what else this man has to do to get that into folks’ ears,” says Caldwell, who was also close to George W. Bush.  President Obama at the 2011 White House Easter prayer breakfast, an annual tradition that he started. But Obama’s public piety has helped him bond with young evangelical leaders, who are less tied to the GOP than their parents’ generation. “I was struck by the specificity of what he described in terms of theology and what it means to him,” says Gabe Lyons, one such leader, describing a White House Easter breakfast he attended. “His message is very specific and very orthodox.” Where exactly that new orthodoxy comes from – the pressures of the White House, a new circle of religious advisers or, to a certain degree, from political calculation – may become clearer after Obama's presidency, if he opens up about such matters. Until then, the president is likely to keep speaking "Christianese" - and resisting Christian labels. soundoff (4,988 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Mormons are NOT Christians, they are MORMONS! You can't be both, doesn't work that way!
Baptists are not Christian, they are Baptists, you can't be both.
ME II
Mormons are as much like Christians as Canadians are like Americans. Baptists are just another variety of American in this analogy, like Mid-Westerners, or New Englanders. Mormons have as many differences with Christians as Christians and Muslims have with Jews. No Christian sect has it's own, completely separate scripture and redefines who Jesus is like the Mormons do. They're a separate religion altogether.
until religion is removed from government, we have little chance for anything more than the ignorance, hate and death it perpetuates. there is no room for faith in a truly successful government.
That is why our senate and congress open in prayer.
"Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
"Salvatore" degenerates to:
"Douglas" degenerates to:
"truth be told" degenerates to:
"Thinker23" degenerates to:
"Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
"another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
"Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
"tina" degenerates to:
"captain america" degenerates to:
"Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
"Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
"just sayin" degenerates to:
"ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
"Kindness" degenerates to:
"Chad" degenerates to
"Bob" degenerates to
"nope" degenerates to:
"2357" degenerates to:
"WOW" degenerates to:
"fred" degenerates to:
"!" degenerates to:
"pervert alert"
This troll is not a christian...
Obama makes history again... now he's the first and only Christian-Muslim in the history of the world!
Why do you ignorant fundiot nutters lie? Do you think it is pleasing to your god?
USDude
You do know how stupid that sounds, don't you?
How Obama's 'faith' changed. He without question joined Wright's church to enhance his political standing with black Americans in Chicago. He cancelled his Chicago church membership, dropping Wright as well, for political gain after Wright's political opinions came to national public light.
DING DING DING DING DING! We have a winner here ladies and gentlemen. Eroteme has nailed it as to exactly how the lib's Dear Leader operates. It will pick and choose which ever religion and denomination within the religion will get it the most votes. This is why I now spell hypocrite, l-i-b-e-r-a-l.
Scott
Scott
And conservatives will pick ANYONE to be their candidate that they think has a chance of winning against the Democrat choice, and they're willing to throw out all their principles to do it.
There's a commercial that airs here where some Chinese leader is telling a Chinese audience how Americans now work for them, and I'm guessing that it's aimed against the Democrats, but I see the Republicans leading us down this road far more.
Obama’s "evolving" Christian faith...
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. Romans 1:18-32
Thou shalt not kill. The 5th commandment. How can Obama call himself a Christian and advocate for partial birth abortion? Many people know what the bible says, few live their life by it.
Then you better condemn just about every president since the US began. Any wars, any federal executions, any military actions resulting in casualties... all violate your stated commandment.
Actually it is, "You shall not murder." The King James Version of the Bible is off on the translation. However, your point is still accurate. The plastic muslim messiah is a pro-abortion type, hence it supports murder.
Scott
Isn't "murder" a legal definition?
So it's okay to kill, as long as the government says it is okay, is that it?
SCOTT
Islam forbids abortion, contraception and family planning for most of its schools of thought. In cases of abortion Christian do it more than Muslims. Why would a Muslim advocate abortion? Oh maybe so that the Muslims would overtake Christians by giving birth. I am a Christian but please leave Muslims alone. None of us use the KKK and Sinn Fein and Westboro Baptist Church to measure Christianity. Why should Al Quaeda and Taleban be used for Islam.
islam is a lying abomination on the face of this earth, allah is not God and mohammed was a thieving fraud.
"Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
"Salvatore" degenerates to:
"Douglas" degenerates to:
"truth be told" degenerates to:
"cristopher hitchens" degenerates to:
"Thinker23" degenerates to:
"Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
"another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
"Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
"tina" degenerates to:
"captain america" degenerates to:
"Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
"Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
"just sayin" degenerates to:
"ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
"Kindness" degenerates to:
"Chad" degenerates to
"Bob" degenerates to
"nope" degenerates to:
"2357" degenerates to:
"WOW" degenerates to:
"fred" degenerates to:
"!" degenerates to:
"pervert alert"
This troll is not a christian.
I, of course, do not know the president personally but I see nothing that would back up this article. If anything, he is inching away from Christianity and anything he says to make it not look like that is only words.
Not buying it CNN.
Actually BoBo is Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist or whatever it needs to be to get a vote. In other words, it is the typical komrade liberal, a hypocrite.
Scott
Scottie, why is it you haven't filled us in on your understanding of economics? Here's your chance. Why should everyone listen to your opinions on it?
a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit ... by their fruits you shall know them not every one that saith unto me,lord,lord,shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith;prove your own selves know ye not your one selves,how that jesus christ is in you,except you be reprobates;be not deceived;God is not mocked;for whatsoever a man soweth,that shall he also reap;seek good,and not evil;hate the evil and love the good;the wicked shall be turned into hell,and (ALL) the nations that forget God;blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; (thou shalt not kill):(thou shalt not lie with mankind,as with womankind;it is abomination;romans 1:24-28 romans 26 for this cause God gave them up unto vile affections;for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature;and likewise also the men,leaving the natural use of the woman,burned in their lust one toward another;men with men working that which is unseemly,and receiving in thenselves that recompence of their error which was meet
Thomas, your god demands that you kill gay folks. Are you doing this? If not, why are you ignoring the commands of your god?
No need the qu eers are killing themselves and taking a lot of innocents with them. Qu eers the folks who gave the world AIDS
you do not know your scriptures or the power of God, remember the woman taken in adultery when they had set her in the midest they said now moses in the law commanded us,that such should be stoned;...what did the Lord say ,he that is with out sin among you,let him first cast a stone at her and thay being convicted by their one conscence left,Jesus said unto the woman hath no man condemned thee ,she said no man Lord,he said neither do i condemn the;go...go and what continue in your sin? no what did he say go and encourage others to do the same,no but what the Lord say, go and sin no more.
The idea that Romney has created jobs is a joke: can you really compare the jobs he sent overseas with Staples? 47th in the nation on job creation, and slapping taxes and fees on everything that moves. How Christian can a Mormon really be when the only thing they care about is their Church? Nothing else matters to them, not even each other.
Obama has created nothing, and 9,000,000 are still out of work. He has no understanding of economics. Romney does and will restore jobs to America. That is why people are already voting for him, the moderate job creator, in droves, and that is why he will win the election by a landslide over the great liberal divider, Obama.
Raisin Bran, what is your background in economics? Have a degree in it? Master's? Doctorate? From what school? What's your profession? How long have you been an expert?
Reason,
Oh, BoBo The Wonder Chimp DOES understand economic. Economics According to Karl Marx that is.
Scott
Well, Scott/Raisin/Troll: why not tell us what your background is? Go ahead. Brag.
Why Tom, Tom, do you have something to say about your own ability to judge economics? Let's hear it.
Reason,
Tom Tom is just one of the resident Soros Trolls. It asks for darn near everyone's credentials that it disagrees with. Just ignore it.
Scott
You're the one flapping your gums about what Obama hasn't done and what Romney will do. Back it up, goomba. Or admit that all you have is the ability to parrot the Tea Party line.
So you have the opportunity to tell everyone here what great economics experts you both are, and you can't? Modest?
Yeah, right.
Crickets chirping from Scott the Wonderslug and Raisin Bran. I wonder why they're unable to tell me why I should pay attention to their posts claiming they know what Obama has done or what they imagine Romney will do for the economy? Come on, dolts, tell me what understanding of macro and micro economics you bring to the table. What experience do you have in business? What academic credentials do you hold that would indicate you're worth listening to on this issue?
"Mormonism is a cult." The current official position of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Definition of cult in this sense is a spiritually abusive religious organization. Nothing to do with Mormon doctrine or ritual but more to do with the fact that some ex-Mormons have needed professional help to deal with spiritual abuse trauma. The Mormon Church is not necessarily bad but application of doctrine sometimes go wrong in a lot of religious organizations..
So does that make it true? Absolutely not. The Southern Baptists are typically good Christians except when it comes to Mormons. Like the Sadducees attacked Christ (a fellow Jew, because they were threatened by Him), the Baptists attack Mormons (fellow Christians, because Baptists feel threatened by them).
Just out of curiosity, what exactly is "spiritual abuse trauma"?
Obama changes his faith, like he changes his ties! He is so obvious in why he is all of a sudden referencing God. God sees his heart and God will judge.
If he truly does have faith in God now, he has not shown any difference or any "fruit" so we know that God changed his heart.
Only for the new members of this blog:
Saving Christians like Obama and Romney from the Infamous Resurrection Con/–>>>>>
From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.
To wit;
From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:
"Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.
Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.
Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.
The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.
Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.
The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "
"In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM
The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.
With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:
An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,
p.4
"Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."
p.168. by Ted Peters:
Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "
So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.
To get a balanced view of the resurrection of Jesus, I suggest you read the works of Gary Habermas. Your citings are all one-sided.
References from both sides of the aisle:
o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.
o
2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
– a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–
30-60 CE Passion Narrative
40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60 1 Thessalonians
50-60 Philippians
50-60 Galatians
50-60 1 Corinthians
50-60 2 Corinthians
50-60 Romans
50-60 Philemon
50-80 Colossians
50-90 Signs Gospel
50-95 Book of Hebrews
50-120 Didache
50-140 Gospel of Thomas
50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80 Gospel of Mark
70-100 Epistle of James
70-120 Egerton Gospel
70-160 Gospel of Peter
70-160 Secret Mark
70-200 Fayyum Fragment
70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
80-100 2 Thessalonians
80-100 Ephesians
80-100 Gospel of Matthew
80-110 1 Peter
80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
80-130 Gospel of Luke
80-130 Acts of the Apostles
80-140 1 Clement
80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
80-250 Christian Sibyllines
90-95 Apocalypse of John
90-120 Gospel of John
90-120 1 John
90-120 2 John
90-120 3 John
90-120 Epistle of Jude
93 Flavius Josephus
100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 T-itus
100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
100-150 Secret Book of James
100-150 Preaching of Peter
100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
100-160 2 Peter
3. Historical Jesus Studies, faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
– "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"
4. Jesus Database, faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html–"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
6. The Jesus Seminar, mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria
7. Writing the New Testament- mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html
8. Health and Healing in the Land of Israel By Joe Zias
joezias.com/HealthHealingLandIsrael.htm
9. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
Continued from above:
10.The Gnostic Jesus
(Part One in a Two-Part Series on Ancient and Modern Gnosticism)
by Douglas Groothuis: equip.org/free/DG040-1.htm
11. The interpretation of the Bible in the Church, Pontifical Biblical Commission
Presented on March 18, 1994
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM#2
12. The Jesus Database- newer site:
wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php?t-itle=Jesus_Database
13. Jesus Database with the example of Supper and Eucharist:
faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb016.html
14. Josephus on Jesus by Paul Maier:
mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
15. The Journal of Higher Criticism with links to articles on the Historical Jesus:
mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
Continued from above:
32. Father Edward Schillebeeckx's words of wisdom as found in his books.
33. The books of the following : Professors Marcus Borg, Paula Fredriksen, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong and Bishop NT Wright.
34. Father Raymond Brown's An Introduction to the New Testament, Doubleday, NY, 1977, 878 pages, with Nihil obstat and Imprimatur.
35. Luke Timothy Johnson's book The Real Jesus
Ah, its so refreshing to see the white trash out in droves....they must have a special on double-wides at the local trailor park: the trailer and Truth's mother/wife/sister( it does not matter which one, he's sleeping with all of them).
By "all of them" I think you mean "her".
It is amusing, seeing how White people come out, declaring their love for n1ggers, bashing the realists, while at the same time their very own cities and towns are being literally destroyed by them.
I bet you race-traitor, n1gger loving b@stards won't even let your own children around any n1gger, hmm?
Enjoy your pet n1gger chimps, America.
Truth you are racist. You are a coward. You are out-dated. You need HELP.
I seriously doubt Obama is a true Christian. When interviewed by Rick Warren before the 2008 election, he did not correctly answer questions about Christianity. He said Jesus was not the only way into Heaven. This goes against Christian faith. I believe he is a Muslim as that was the way he was raised and the way the was taught in school. It also concerns me greatly that he attended the radical Rev. Wright's church for so long. I believe Obama wants us to believe he is Christian because the majority of Americans are Christians. In any case, we need to pray for the best person to fill this important position. Things are a mess and we need a good president in office.
Warren can't answer questions about Christianity either so what's your point?
Wesley: Judging who is a "true christian", are you?
How pious of you.
What you know for 100% fact is that Mitt Romney is not a "true Christian". Mormons cannot be "true Christians", they are Mormons!
Amen!!! to you comment!
So what? What makes Christians so wonderful?What about the rest of the people?
WESLEY
Do you remeber this
"Not al those who call me LORD, LORD shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven but those who do the will of the Father."
Christ said He was the way to the Father not Heaven. The Father having a relationship with you is eternal life not being in Heaven. So Christ is the only way to the Father not to Heaven by His own words.
@guis
Christ makes Christians wonderful. The rest of the people are eternally lost.
That vast majority of "Christians" cannot even answer basic questions. In fact, atheists usually know more about Christianity than Christians. That's why they are atheists.
TRUTH BE TOLD
Non-Christians may go to Heaven just as much as Christians can go to Hell. What you declared is unbiblical and a dogma taught by men. Otherwise Christ would not have talked of the Parable of the Good Samaritan. Besides there are a lot of Samaritans, Jews and other non-Christians there already according to the Bible so what are you talking about.
Everyone knows you are an idiot ni, why must you confirm it . Take a hike loser.
@jim
That is an oft repeated lie. The true Christian has more true knowledge of God and His word than all the so called atheists combined.The phony atheist repeats what it has heard without regard to actual facts or events, falsely assuming their teachers actually could substantiate their theories.
"Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
"Salvatore" degenerates to:
"Douglas" degenerates to:
"truth be told" degenerates to:
"cristopher hitchens" degenerates to:
"Thinker23" degenerates to:
"Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
"another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
"Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
"tina" degenerates to:
"captain america" degenerates to:
"Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
"Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
"just sayin" degenerates to:
"ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
"Kindness" degenerates to:
"Chad" degenerates to
"Bob" degenerates to
"nope" degenerates to:
"2357" degenerates to:
"WOW" degenerates to:
"fred" degenerates to:
"!" degenerates to:
"pervert alert"
This troll is not a christian.
Why has the media probed Romney on mormanism and its racist past? Romney has been mum about it although he's a bishop in that church. The media has given him a free pass yet fell over themselves in targeting Obama and Rev. Wright. Sounds like a double standard. Until there's more information on Mormanism, I'll vote for the Christian in office. There's too much unknown about Romney and his "faith". It is a cult.
Obama you will come out to be a winner . I have no doubt in this .
Can't wait to see the look on n1gger's faces when Romney completely dominates this election! 🙂
No more n1gger handouts, welfare or food stamps for you worthless n1gger chimps!
I can't wait to see your face when Obama is re-elected. This is a race issue for you, and that is a distraction to this election. This issues are what matter most.
When/Where sensible people discuss issues, people like you cannot be present, because your brain is full of racist thoughts and not thoughts of progress.
The author of Christian theology, and doctrine who is Jesus Christ, tells us, as well as instructs us on who is Christian. He, even goes as far as to tell us in his gospel the traits of such a person, yet we still refuse to pay attention and label perhaps, 95% of people Christian who are not. "I will tell you, I did not know you" depart from me, you doer of iniquities.
Wow, how convincing
Romney does not prey or worship Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. All mormons don't
You're flat wrong. This comment shows I ignorant you are about Mormons. I know Mormons personally and the are some of the most devout Christians I know.
The founder of the Mormon church, Joseph Smith, told his followers that there were men that live on the moon, who wear Quaker's clothing, who live to be 1,000 years old. The basis for the entire religion is a sham. Golden plates written in a giberish that only Joseph Smith can understand and translate, that he found and then returned to a place where no one can find said plates? How convenient.
Mario, you are a fool! You know as much about the Mormons and you do about religion. Obama has spent more time studying the Koran than the bible, he can quote it verbatim. He attended a Madras.
Google the "Lost 116 pages of the Book of Mormon" for a real insight into this faith. Basically, they wife of the guy scribing the Book of Mormon for Smith saw through the sham, stole 116 pages that her husband had finished scribing and challenged Smith to reproduce them. Obviously, he couldn't because he was making it up as he went, so he opted to tell the same story from a different "book" and said that evil people would try to discredit Mormonism if he tried to retranslate.
And still people are taken in by this? Amazing!
Mitt Romney worships our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. All Mormons do.
Are Republicans really naive enough to think that they can make war on women, Hispanics, blacks, alternate life styles, the poor, suppress voting rights, give massive tax breaks to robber barons while eliminating safety nets for the middle class and get absolutely no resistance?
America is for White People. The rest have no business here.
Our government MUST be for White People, and only White People.
This is our White Country, after all. We built this.
They can sell limiting medicare to retired conservatives without them catching on to how it would hurt them mostly, so yeah. They can get away with it because their supporters don't realize how their policies hit them the hardest. Sad really.
Penny, are Democrats really naive enough to buy into Obama's vision of the economy and healthcare which will bankrupt generations to come ? Do Democrats really have no concern for the moral fiber of a man in the presidency that refused to help Americans pleading for assistance in Benghazi? Do Democrats enjoy seeing the moral fiber of our nation decline and move away from the principles of our founding fathers?
Romney represents capital's desire for the higher returns through cheaper labor costs.
Capital does not care about externalities like patriotism or morality; if it can get higher returns stabbing the American worker in the back in favor of sweatshop labor, than so be it.
Unfortunately, a sweat shop is better than no job which is what Obama is providing. Aside from rhetoric, Romney has created jobs and knows how to do it. Obama is clueless on the economy and never led anything before the presidency, which is why he's mucked it up so bad. Romney will return jobs to people. Obama, thank heaven, is on his way out according to polls.
Reason, do you have a clue? It doesn't look like it.
When things are obvious, you don't need a clue. It's a shame you can't see the obvious.
Oh, I can see what's obvious: that you think Obama has done nothing to improve the economy. That you're such a dumbfvck you believe Romney will do better. That you're so ignorant you don't grasp the fact that a president can affect the economy to limited degree when the whole world is in a recession. That we'd have done better with McCain at the helm. That Obama made things worse over the last 4 years, when in fact, had he NOT done some of the things he did, we'd be in FAR worse shape.
You're an idiot. And so desperate to see Romney in office that you'll reveal your ignorance publicly.
Reason
What polls are you looking at? Obama is up 4 points in Ohio. I sure wouldn't bet against him.
Oh, I'll bet against Obama, because he's losing on economy and he's bogged down in the quagmire of lies about Libya. Tom, Tom is so jealous of Romney's obvious job creating abilities that she has to, like a good Democrat, make every possible excuse for Obama's poor performance. Where are the jobs? Oh, we'll, Obama's just had a lot on his plate. You know, passing that money hungry partisan healthcare bill was so much more important than fixing the economy and providing jobs. Enough with excuses. Obama has failed miserably, and it is time to look for a businessman with a proven track record who will fix things. That is why Romney will win.
Tom, keep drinking the kool-aid.
Reason wrote, "Unfortunately, a sweat shop is better than no job which is what Obama is providing."
This, of course, is simply more lies from this ignorant fundiot nutter. The tea baggers have blocked Obama's attempts to create jobs. The do this in order to destroy the economy and get rid of Obama.
Don't believe me? Google for the cached version of Tea Party Nation's website when they were having their members sign pledges to not hire a single person or create a single job unless Obama was gone. These same nutters, like Reason, then turn arounf and bitch about a lack of jobs. These ignorant môrons have no shame.
This is huge load of crap. CNN is now trying to pander to the right in order to get more voters for Obama. How pathetic.
Too bad it won't work! People everywhere will be voting for Romney in droves....can you say landslide?
It will be the greatest Republican landslide ever 70 / 30 for Romney ! Larger even than Richard M Nixon and look how well that worked out for us ! Romney / Ryan 2012
What are you boys smoking? Obama is up 4 points in Ohio!
There are more intelligent human beings than latinos and worthless welfare n1ggers in Ohio. Not by much, but there is more.
Your pet n1gger is done for.
@Truth,
Your statements are disgusting.
Mark my words – OBAMA WILL WIN THIS ELECTION RIGHT THROUGH THE HEART OF OHIO!!!!