November 1st, 2012
10:35 AM ET

Battleground Iowa: Evangelical, Catholic voters may swing state

By Poppy Harlow and Ronni Berke, CNN

Des Moines, Iowa (CNN) - From church pews to cheeseburger joints, Iowa's faithful are a major prize in the political ground war raging between President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney.

Of the roughly 3 million Iowans, about 30% call themselves evangelical or Catholic. Fifty-seven percent of Iowans who voted in the caucuses this year were evangelical Christians.

Evangelicals overwhelmingly supported Rick Santorum over Romney in the Iowa caucuses, helping Santorum squeeze out a slight victory in the final count.

In Des Moines, evangelical Christians flock to Grace Church, affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention, to talk faith, family and the presidential election. The evangelical voters we met strongly supported Romney, but they also expressed a general unease about his moderate history on social issues such as abortion.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: 2012 Election • Barack Obama • Belief • Catholic Church • Christianity • Mitt Romney • Politics

soundoff (130 Responses)
  1. Prayer is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer takes people away from actually working on real solutions to their problems.
    Prayer has been shown to have no discernible effect towards what was prayed for.
    Prayer makes you frothy like Rick Santorum. Just go to http://santorum.com to find out more.
    Prayer prevents you from getting badly needed exercise.
    Prayer makes you fat, pale, weak, and sedentary.
    Prayer wears out your clothes prematurely.
    Prayer contributes to global warming through excess CO2 emissions.
    Prayer fucks up your knees and your neck and your back.
    Prayer can cause heart attacks, especially among the elderly.
    Prayer reveals how stupid you are to the world.
    Prayer exposes your backside to pervert priests.
    Prayer makes you think doilies are exciting.
    Prayer makes you secretively flatulent and embarrassed about it.
    Prayer makes your kids avoid spending time with you.
    Prayer gives you knobbly knees.
    Prayer makes you frothy like Rick Santorum. Just google him to find out.
    Prayer dulls your senses.
    Prayer makes you post really stupid shit.
    Prayer makes you hoard cats.
    Prayer makes you smell like shitty kitty litter and leads you on to harder drugs.
    Prayer wastes time.

    November 2, 2012 at 9:27 am |
  2. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer really changes things,

    November 2, 2012 at 7:30 am |
    • TrollAlert

      2012 at 9:13 am | Report abuse | Reply


      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "Salvatore" degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Thinker23" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
      "Kindness" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian.

      November 2, 2012 at 8:56 am |
  3. Steph

    Well, dunno about the evangelicals, but more and more Catholics are being taken to court. Especially the priests.

    November 1, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
  4. People in Iowa Need a KING!


    November 1, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
  5. Iqbal Khan

    Check this out..


    November 1, 2012 at 8:04 pm |
  6. How to twist yourself into a Christian Logic Pretzel

    Here are the explanations you will hear next Wednesday from the religious nincompundits.

    If Romney wins: God stepped up and saved the nation.

    If Obama wins: The phony god of the Mormon cult couldn't help him.

    If the Republicans win the Senate: God looks after his beloved Christian nation.

    If the Democrats win the Senate: God plays no part in politics.

    November 1, 2012 at 5:02 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Christian Logic Pretzel

      LOL ! 😯 Yeah... it will be some version of that. You know... if Obama wins... Satan is here and it's the end times, or some such drivel.


      November 1, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • Rosanne Rosannadanna

      Wasn't it the End Times a couple decades ago? Yes, I'm sure they were all saying it was the End Times.

      Does that mean that now it is "The Really Endy End Times, Even Endier Than All Those Earlier End Times"?

      November 1, 2012 at 5:12 pm |
    • Very Clever

      But why give Chad, Bill Deacon, fred, truth be told, et al, a leg up; they are more than able to twist any result to their own means but without any humor.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I suppose I'll never understand the predisposition of some people to put words in others mouths and then either argue against that or make fun of it, thinking they are clever.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:24 pm |
    • Well Obviously

      It's called "satire" Bill, and those of us with senses of humor enjoy it.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • Very Clever

      @Bill Deacon
      Watched the catholic charity dinner was quite amused by both Romney and Obama and even your catholic guy got off a few good lines. Are you one of those sad humorless victims of your faith? Do you have any humor in you, go ahead tell us a joke or even a little satire, try.

      November 1, 2012 at 6:13 pm |
    • billdeacons

      Here's one that cracks me up:

      What does an atheist insominiac dyslexic do?

      Lays awake at night and wonders if there really is a dog

      November 1, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • billdeacons

      And most of what I see posted I would not call satire. I would call sarcasm which comes from the Greek sarcazos meaning to tear flesh. So it's not really humorous. It's tearing the flesh of those you disagree with. But we have become so blood lustful we don't even recognize that any longer. I come here looking for decent conversation with people who might have differing views than mine but seldom get well reasoned arguments, mostly juvenile rants and name calling. The humor of that fades pretty quickly

      November 1, 2012 at 9:51 pm |
    • Polka Bob

      We had some excellent discussions today on the credibility of various Biblical stories. Where were you?

      November 1, 2012 at 10:44 pm |
    • Syou

      Yes, it’s somewhat inetresting to know whether a candidate believes in the Bible or not—but is it the sort of question that should come up at a national debate? You can thank Karl Rove for making the Republican Party synonymous with values voters and thus cannibalizing important moments in national debates with pointless speculation on candidates' faith. Expect it to continue in even more important Presidential debates next October. Mitt Romney was also confident and poised. Wow you decided to mention Willard today. First time in months considering he's the frontrunner. First of all, I think Rudy hurt himself with his exchange with Romney. He’s the front-runner (at least nationally), Rudy's the frontrunner ..in states that are weeks or months behind the kingmaking early primary states. Unless Huckabee and Paul collectively steal Willard's thunder in Iowa and New Hampshire, Rudy will be a nonfactor by the time Florida comes around, getting clobbered with a month's worth of negative headlines about his sputtering campaign unable to find traction. Ron Paul is a nut. He's a nut who, given his massive advertising budget and unique message, I now expect to get third place in both Iowa and New Hampshire.It is going to be insanely inetresting to see this GOP primary battle unfold as it's poised to be the most unpredictable nomination dogfight of my lifetime in either party. Two weeks ago, it looked like Willard was on the fast-track to the nomination having worked his way into leads in all of the first four primary states. Now, the surge of Mike Huckabee, a likely pending surge of Ron Paul, and Giuliani and Thompson seemingly in decline, there's very little assurance that this is still Willard's race to lose. On the other hand, Paul is a novelty candidate with a significant but limited appeal, and Huckabee doesn't have the fund-raising capacity or the support of the party's robber baron wing, meaning he'll be unlikely to carry momentum from Iowa to the de facto national primary on Super Tuesday. I still think it's gonna be Willard. The other guys all seem poised to divide their vote amongst one another.

      November 8, 2012 at 6:36 pm |
  7. Eliminate hinduism, religions corruption of truth absolute by hindu's lairs, for peace, Islam among humanity.

    Expect nothing better but mayhem among humanity by following of hinduism, denial of truth absolute, Allah, and following of hindu pagan Mithra ism, savior ism, neither commanded, nor allowed in Islam as a religion, but Theen Allah, consti tution of truth absolute. Foundation of American consti tution.
    hindu Mithra ism, savior ism invented little over 100 years after Sydana Mohammad pbh by tribes of Kujar of north Africa and imposition as Fatmid Khalaphit by force by denial of Hidth and Quran, justified by hindu Judaism, pagan secularism to impose hinduism, racism by hindu, fabricated relationship with Family of Syadana Mohammad pbh to justify existence of hindu criminal Kings, a violation of fundamental commandment, human equality under the LA. truth absolute Allah. Cause of conflict among Muslim's and cause of down fall of Muslim's and Islam in Spain.

    Sunisim, invented by Turk's by corruption of Quran and hidth to justify existence of hindu King's as Khalipha, after death of Ruler Mohammad, but later renamed, Mehmmat, wisdom of spirit of truth by siblings from his Armenian wife, follower of hindu pagan Mithra ism, savior ism in 13th century.

    Christianity, invented by hinduism,. corruption of truth absolute by hindu Pharisees, pagan self centered, follower of hindu filthy pig ism by corrupted Torah, known as Greek Torah, translated and commented by Ben Asheer in 250 AD in Yiddish, secularist, self centered language, also known as Old Testament, part of book of Mithra ism labeled as Bible. A way to justify hindu criminal Kings and self proclaimed Prophets, fortune tellers as god's to rule over humanity.

    JUDAISM, Self center ism, pig ism, or Atheism, invented by hindu's pagan's of Egypt by corruption of truth absolute in Torah to Justify hindu pagan Pharaoh's and their hindu pagan Santans, goons as god's to rule over humanity with impunity.

    word hindu is based on Latin word hindered, negative, Hun, great, Han, to be in greatness, hin, to be negative to both of them, hindu, a noun in negativity, hinduism, way of negativity.
    Visit limitisthetruth.com to learn about hinduism, criminality of hindu's, criminals to impose hinduism, racism on humanity by hinduism, corruption of truth absolute by force.

    November 1, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
    • Huebert

      Seriously, just stop. Your English is depressing.

      November 1, 2012 at 3:49 pm |
    • Reasonably

      See? What you write is code...probably telling us all to buy McDonald's "chicken" nuggets...

      November 1, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • Primewonk

      You're right Reasonable, it is code! Look what I found –

      "JUDAISM, Self center ism, piG ism, Or Atheism, invented by hinDu's pagan's of Egypt by corruptIon of truth abSolute in Torah to Justify hinDu pagan Pharaoh's and thEir hindu pagAn Santans, goons as goD's to rule over humanity with impunity.

      November 1, 2012 at 4:17 pm |
    • Reality

      A rebuttal in Urdu, the official language of Pakistan:

      agnostic سے تردید:

      آرمسٹرانگ، رشدی، Hirsi علی، رچرڈسن اور بیھقی -– کے مطالعہ سے

      پانچ اسلامی افسانوں کا 1400 سال Deprogram اقدامات:

      (کے قدم کمال صرف ختم، دو منٹ میں دو منٹ سے بھی کم ایک ارب سے زیادہ کھو روح انمول میں امن اور سمجھداری لانے لے!!)

      کیا آپ تیار ہیں؟

      کا استعمال کرتے ہوئے ایمان "اسلامی کی 77 شاخیں" ایمان "ایک نقطہ اغاز کے طور پر امام بیھقی کی طرف سے مرتب مجموعہ اس میں، وہ ضروری فضائل یہ سچ کی عکاسی کی وضاحت کرتا ہے" "متعلقہ قرانی آیات اور نبوی اقوال کے ذریعے (ایمان)." یعنی قرآن پاک اور اسلامی عقائد کا ایک اچھا خلاصہ.

      77 شاخوں کے پہلے پانچ:

      "اللہ میں 1 ایمان."

      خدا، Yahweh، Zeus، یہووا، ماں فطرت، قدرت، وغیرہ کے طور پر ارف آپکے نیوران خود صفائی میں شامل کی جائے.

      "2 کہ سب کے علاوہ اللہ غیر موجود تھا یقین کرنے کے لئے. اس کے بعد، سب سے زیادہ ہائی اللہ نے ان چیزوں کو پیدا کیا اور اس کے بعد وہ وجود میں آیا."

      ارتقاء اور بگ بینگ یا "GI B-G-نیب" (جب کائنات کو ری سائیکل شروع ہوتا ہے) ممکنہ ہیں اور اللہ کے لئے "akas" اگر آپ کو ایک "crea tionist" شامل کیا جانا چاہئے.

      "3. فرشتوں کے وجود میں یقین کرنے کے."

      نیوران کی صفائی کے لئے ایک اہم چیز ہے. فرشتوں / ڈی vils قدیم تہذیبوں کے پورانیک مخلوق، مثال کے طور پر ہیں Hitt آئٹیئایس / قدرتی واقعات کی وضاحت کرنے کی وضاحت کے لئے، ان کے دیوتاوں، بڑے پرندوں، اچانک ہواؤں، سیاہ راتوں کے دوران محافظ، وغیرہ نہیں "کافی / UG LY wingy thingies" کے ساتھ رابطے بھی پہلے کا دورہ کیا یا محمد، حضرت عیسی علیہ السلام، مریم سے بات کی یا جوزف یا جو سمتھ. آج ہم F airies اور "ٹن KER-lls" کے طور پر فرشتوں کی درجہ بندی کریں گے. جدید ڈی vils ڈی mented کے ڈی mons کے طور پر کی درجہ بندی کر رہے ہیں.

      "4 کا خیال ہے کہ تمام آسمانی کتابیں ہیں جو مختلف پیغمبروں کو بھیجا گیا سچ ہیں. تاہم، کے علاوہ قرآن پاک سے دیگر تمام کتابیں صحیح ہیں نہیں."

      ایک اور اہم چیز کو خارج. آسمان کی روح ریاست کے وزٹرز کا ریکارڈ رکھا جائے گا (اگر وہاں ایک ہے) کوئی کتابیں ہیں بالکل اسی طرح جیسے کوئی / شائع لکھنے / انہیں تقسیم فرشتے ہیں. قرآن پاک، OT، NT وغیرہ صرف انسانوں کے لئے انسانوں کی طرف سے تحریری کتابیں ہیں.

      انبیاء قدیم scribes کی طرف سے ایجاد عام طور پر لائن میں اقوام متحدہ کے تعلیم یافتہ عوام کے رکھنے کے لئے کیا گیا تھا. آج ہم ان tellers کے لئے دھن کہتے ہیں.

      پیشن گوئی بھی مفت کیا جائے گا اور مستقبل کی قدرتی / خدا / اللہ تحائف کی طرف سے invali ء.

      "5 یقین ہے کہ تمام انبیاء سچ ہیں، تاہم، ہم نبی محمد صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم (امن اور مجزوب کی پیروی کا حکم ہے.
      اللہ علیہ وسلم) اکیلے. "

      محمد خرچ تیس دن "روزہ" اللہ ارف خدا وغیرہ کے ساتھ ان کی ایک "کافی wingy thingy" کے ذریعے پہلے رابطہ کے سامنے ایک گرم غار میں (رمضان علامات). کامن احساس # 5 کے نیوران کی تنسیخ کا مطالبہ. # 5 اسلامی VI olence یعنی رہی ہے محمد کے تیز، بھوک سے چلنے والی "کافروں کے لئے خوفناک حقیقت میں hallu کی cinations اہم ذریعہ بھی ہے.

      ان پانچ قدم پر چلتے ہیں اور ہم آپ کے اسلامی طریقوں میں سے ایک مکمل بحالی اس بات کی ضمانت!

      بدقسمتی سے، بہت سے مسلمان اس بلاگ پر مبصرین / قارئین نہیں ہیں تو "دو منٹ کی" علاج وہ لوگ جو اس کی ضرورت نہیں مل رہا ہے. اگر آپ ایک مسلمان دوست ہے، اس کی ایک نقل بھیجیں گے اور دنیا کو بچانے میں مدد کریں.

      مطابق اقدامات عیسائیت، یہودیت، بدھ مت، ہندو مت اور Paganism کی خرافات کا ترک کرنا deprogramming کے لئے آپ کی درخواست پر دستیاب ہیں ..

      November 1, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • Reasonably

      @Primewonk – wow!

      November 1, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • therealpeace2all


      LOL ! Nicely done ! 😀


      November 1, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
  8. Really now

    They may as well be courting the psych ward patients at Bellevue for all the good it will do them.

    Appeal to their hallucination and you will get their vote.

    November 1, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
  9. Eliminate hinduism, religions corruption of truth absolute by hindu's lairs, for peace, Islam among humanity.

    way of hindu Magi's, criminal tricksters, they confess obedience to truth absolute God, but depend on hindu, ignorant human to stay in business of hinduism, corruption of truth absolute religions. hungry of recognition and power like a hindu hungry dog.

    November 1, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
  10. Sane Person

    Religion = mind control. Control their minds / control their votes. These people don't think for themselves.

    November 1, 2012 at 1:36 pm |
    • cristopher hitchens

      Spoken by the poster child for atheistic slogans. Atheists screwing up humanity since their ill advised conception. What one atheist lies to all the others swear to. Lemmings have more independent thought than atheists.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      I agree with Hitch. Sane people are the poster children for atheism, whereas the mentally deranged are the poster children for religion.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:47 pm |
    • == o ==

      "cristopher hitchens":

      "Spoken by the poster child for atheistic slogans. Atheists screwing up humanity since their ill advised conception. What one atheist lies to all the others swear to. Lemmings have more independent thought than atheists."

      LOL – atheists are lemmings – LMAO! right. Who are the real "sheeple" that follow what they are taught without questioning credible proof?? Hmm??? Fundiot of the worst magnitude.

      And "What one atheist lies to all the others swear to." is the tell-tale sign of the homophobic
      Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. writer's bootcamp flunkie.

      The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:

      "cristopher hitchens degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" degenerates to:
      "Taskmaster" degenerates to:
      "Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      and many other names . . .

      November 1, 2012 at 1:52 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      cristopher hitchens: Honestly your ranting only makes you look delusional to us. So while you remain blind to reality and continue to live in the 1st century, we will go on saving this planet the best way we can...all while living in the 21st century where the numerous books we reference are dated within the last decade or so, unlike your main source of info dated some 2000 years ago and has never been updated. I'll take my reality over yours any day....remember it's my life and you honestly don't care about us, you believe we're sinners anyways.

      November 1, 2012 at 4:26 pm |
    • captain america

      Well liar prefails why don't you and your bull sh it opinion stay north of our border and leave US to US. Just because you are not wanted there does not give you right to undermine our one nation under God. There's your sign

      November 1, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    • captain america

      Well liar prefails why don't you and your bull sh it opinion stay north of our border and leave US to US. Just because you are not wanted there does not give you right to undermine our one nation under God. There's your sign.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
  11. Rational Libertarian

    The shamelessness of politics.

    November 1, 2012 at 1:35 pm |
    • Reasonably

      The shamelessness of religious pandering...just ask Billy Graham.

      November 1, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
  12. Reality

    As per http://iowartl.org/get-the-facts/abortion/illegal-abortion-statistics/, on average there are 6000 abortions done in Iowa every year since Roe vs. Wade. That comes to roughly a total of 234,000 abortions since 1973.

    Now considering there are two people/voters involved in every abortion ("mother and father") that comes to almost 500,000 voters who will be voting for the pro-choice/pro-abortion candidate i.e. B. Obama.

    Tough to lose a state when you have such a large voting bloc. And that is why, Obama (and Axelrod) are filling the airways with their pro-Roe vs. Wade message

    November 1, 2012 at 1:33 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Getting your information on medical procedures from "Right-toLife" makes as much sense as getting your information on the science of evolution from AIG. Sure, you can, but why?

      The fundiot nutters will lie to you every step of the way.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:49 pm |
    • Reality

      Iowa's abortion statistics from the Guttamacher Inst-itute:

      http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/iowa.html (basically the same as previously noted)

      November 1, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
  13. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    November 1, 2012 at 1:27 pm |
    • HeavenSense

      Hi Prayerbot.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module, the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
      by the Alzheimer's Disease Society

      November 1, 2012 at 1:53 pm |
  14. Reasonably

    Courting cultist subsidized (welfare) votes in a state that matters more to candidates than it does to the rest of the country. Seriously, Iowa, get over yourself. We grow corn in my state too.

    November 1, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Meatwad

      I like that corn-on-the-cob. It is fun to eat. Besides, I only have one damn tooth.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
  15. Reality

    Some 21st century reality:

    1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

    “New Torah For Modern Minds

    Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “
    Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.

    2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.


    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    Current RCC problems:

    Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

    2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

    Current problems:
    Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

    November 1, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Reasonably

      Our cult is hipper than your cult. Ask us how!

      November 1, 2012 at 1:20 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      The Church has over 41,406 diocesan and religious-order priests in the United States; over 30,000 lay ministers (80 percent of them women); 17,000 men who are ordained as permanent deacons in the United States (a permanent deacon is a man, either married or single, who is ordained to the order of deacons, the first of three ranks in ordained ministry;[13] they help priests in administrative and pastoral roles); 63,032 sisters; 5,040 brothers; 16 US cardinals; 424 active and retired US bishops; and 5,029 seminarians enrolled in the United States. Overall, it employs more than one million employees with an operating budget of nearly $100 billion to run parishes, diocesan primary and secondary schools, nursing homes, retreat centers, diocesan hospitals, and other charitable instiitutions.[14] Catholic schools educate 2.7 million students in the United States, employing 150,000 teachers, most of them women.

      So a much larger proportion of Catholic lay ministers and teachers are women than men.

      Additionally, a study by the Barna group found that 60% of Catholics are white, 31% Hispanic, 4% black and 5% other. These ratios generally hold within the Episcopate and are in line with then general demographics of U.S. population.

      So, yeah, the guy who calls you full of BS is right.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:44 pm |
    • Reality

      "U. S. Catholic school enrollment reached its peak during the early 1960s when there were more than 5.2 million students in almost thirteen thousand schools across the nation. The 1970s and 1980s saw a steep decline in both the number of schools and students. By 1990, there were approximately 2.5 million students. "

      And the major reason for Catholic schools?

      “John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to an accident (the randomness) of birth. The faith of the vast majority of believers depends upon where they were born and when. Those born in Saudi Arabia will almost certainly be Moslems, and those born and raised in India will for the most part be Hindus. Nevertheless, the religion of millions of people can sometimes change abruptly in the face of major political and social upheavals. In the middle of the sixth century ce, virtually all the people of the Near East and Northern Africa, including Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt were Christian. By the end of the following century, the people in these lands were largely Moslem, as a result of the militant spread of Islam.

      The Situation Today
      Barring military conquest, conversion to a faith other than that of one’s birth is rare. Some Jews, Moslems, and Hindus do convert to Christianity, but not often. Similarly, it is not common for Christians to become Moslems or Jews. Most people are satisfied that their own faith is the true one or at least good enough to satisfy their religious and emotional needs. Had St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas been born in Mecca at the start of the present century, the chances are that they would not have been Christians but loyal followers of the prophet Mohammed. “ J. Somerville

      It is very disturbing that religious narrow- mindedness, intolerance, violence and hatred continues unabated due to randomness of birth. Maybe, just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper every day, that we would finally realize the significant stupidity of all religions.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
  16. Iowa?

    Where the fuck is Iowa?

    November 1, 2012 at 12:34 pm |
    • 24HCC

      It is adjacent to Paymeback.

      November 1, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • Andy

      You think the KKK is bad. Watch out for the CCC (Children of the Christian Corn).

      November 1, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
    • DJ

      Idaho where it is.

      November 1, 2012 at 12:47 pm |
    • Which God?


      Where the fvck is Iowa?

      Just west of Bumfvck Illinois.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:16 pm |
    • Reasonably

      Get out your farm subsidies map.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:19 pm |
  17. Primewonk

    I'm sorry, but I live in the United States of America – I do not live in the United States of Jesusland. My country is a constîtutional republic. It is not a theocracy.

    Many of the fundiot nutters – including several in the video – seem to think they should apply a religious means test to candidates for office. On the otherhand, my constîtution says that a religious means test can never be applied to any office in the US.

    If the fundiot nutters want to live in a theocracy – move. Because trying to turn my country into one will result in a bloodbath.

    November 1, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • 24HCC

      I am about 90% sure at this point that I will not spend retirement in the U.S.A. It is a big world, lots of cool places out there.

      November 1, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
  18. Wayfaring Stranger

    A Word for All of Us.

    It has been drawn to my attention that the path of Hurricane Sandy made the shape of the Hebrew Letter LAMED, ל I find that most interesting as this letter in Hebrew means to learn, it also speaks of the King of Kings. This very strongly indicates to me that the King of Kings is not only telling us something but He is teaching us how He feels about what is happening in the United States of America.

    When I first noticed the path of the storm Sandy looked like Lamed, I stopped and begin to pray over this, and during prayer and asking God what did this mean, I heard in my spirit that small still voice that speaks to those who know His Voice.

    "This is the beginning of Great Sorrows for the Churches have fornicated with other gods and have offered up prayers that are a stench to my nostrils. Those who have called themselves people of God have deceived the people and fed their own bellies with unclean foods of greed and spiritual pride. No man can save them now, for those who know me and I them must know My Word is the Beginning and the End of all things, now it must rain on the just and the unjust alike. There is still time for repentance for those who have sinned against Me, but Judgment now will fall on the Nations who have come against Jerusalem and My people.

    As for Jerusalem I say to you, I will cleanse my house first, fall on your faces and repent before it is too late. You have invited horrible sins into My House and the time for cleansing has come near.


    Shalom, JG

    November 1, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • Primewonk

      This fucking ignorant religious nutter is spamming all threads with this idiotic bullshit.

      November 1, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • 24HCC

      @Wayfaring Stranger

      LOL, you are great.

      November 1, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • Reasonably

      That's some funny stuff. Let me go make some popcorn while I wait for your next post.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • Lamb of dog

      Hey my poop looked like that this morning. I'm going to go pray about my poo.

      November 1, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
  19. Bill Deacon

    There is no social justice without the right to life.

    There is no right to life without the freedom of religion

    There is no freedom of religion without the Constiitution

    November 1, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • Beth

      BillD, your use of "of" is incorrect.

      Apart from that, how do you define human life? And why does your definition differ from others?

      And now, how would you feel delivering your evangiewacko lines from your post to a pregnant ra pe victim.?

      November 1, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • mama k

      First two sentences are certainly arguable by many.

      But the last sentence "There is no freedom of religion without the Constiitution"
      is a partial of the truth about the Constitution. The Constitution and its 1st Amendment (with Establishment Clause) also, to a degree specify for government to be free from religion if exercise of such may infringe on the religious rights (or lack of) of others – in other words, if such exercise can be seen as an establishment on behalf of the government fo a particular religion. An example of where the Establishment Clause has been applied was in 1963 when the Supreme Court ruled that mandated readings from the Bible in public schools was unconstitutional.

      November 1, 2012 at 12:43 pm |
    • mama k

      typo correction: end of next-to-last sentence should be: "for a particular religion."

      November 1, 2012 at 12:44 pm |
    • Jonathan


      Human life starts at conception, without exception. There is no debating this. Every living human today, started life as a single cell, with their own unique genetic code, and grew from there. People who do not accept this do so for many reasons, amoung them are willful denial and/or pure ignorance. Willingness to terminate a human life due to not being able to care for itself or the ability to reason (yet!), or feel pain is merely a stepping stone toward eugenics.

      Any woman that is a victim of ra-pe has been part of a tragedy. While rare, becoming pregnant as a result of ra-pe is also unfortunate but does not have to be a tragedy. The child had no choice in its conception or existance, the child is merely there and growing. The child is innocent of any wrong doing and is a human life, undeserving of murder. I would recommend the woman bring the child to term and give to adoption if she could not accept the child herself.

      November 1, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT



      Human life starts at conception, without exception. There is no debating this.
      No reason to read further. You are amazingly stupid and have no clue.

      November 1, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
    • Jonathan

      "No reason to read further. You are amazingly stupid and have no clue"

      Provide a reasoned argument and/or logical proofs to render my statement invalid or irrelevant, otherwise your opinion carries no weight. It will merely be an emotional outburst of 'nuh-uh' and 'you're stupid'.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      According to the Catholic Church, which I accept as the authority on the beginning of life as does Joe Biden, life begins at conception.

      The social justice of Christianity is based on the sacred nature of each life. People who want to reposition the beginning of life to some point after conception are merely making an argument of convenience which allows them to consider the rights of the mother as supreme to the rights of the child. But that is not justice, that is anarchy or at best political power. Thus, ultimately there can be no social justice without the fundamental care of the unborn as a starting point.

      Since religion tells us that man is sacred simply because of his relation to his creator and not because of his value in the market, the state should not impose restriction on the free exercise thereof. This is what the Constiitution guarantees.

      Finally, whatever the conditions of conception, a life is still a life. I see no justification for terminating a life because on or the other parent is a criminal. This doesn't mean that abortion will become illegal in the U.S. but I think if we are going to give one group (mothers) rights that others are denied (children and fathers) we ought to at least acknowledge the reality of that and accept that democracy is stratified.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • mama k

      Bill wrote: "Since religion tells us that man is sacred simply because of his relation to his creator and not because of his value in the market, the state should not impose restriction on the free exercise thereof. This is what the Constiitution guarantees."

      Go back and read my earlier reply, Bill. The Constitution does try to guarantee free exercise of religion, but carefully grants that guarantee as long as such excercise cannot be seen as establishing a particular religion's belief across the board to the whole country. Overturning R v W would never be able to be done on grounds of religious freedom. It would probably have to be overturned by proving that the original grounds (7 – 2 decision) were wrong. I agree with the current law, but regardless, you keep leaving out some important aspects of the 1st Amendment.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:40 pm |
    • mama k

      typo: 2nd "excercise" should be spelled correctly as "exercise"

      November 1, 2012 at 1:43 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Not a spelling police mam so no worries there. I think we are actually in agreement. The argument against life beginning at conception is not scientifically sustainable. Though I do not support R v W as you do, we both agree that the beginning of life is not the central issue on which pro-abortion advocates rest. The condition of "personhood" seems to be paramount and the current law in the U.S. has declared that the personhood of the mother is supreme to that of the child or the father. I think if we insert the word "black" or "gay" for child we can more easily see that we have conferred on women the right to terminate the life of individuals whom they autonomously deem inconvenient. I just think it is sad that women want to think of themselves as the nurturing and protecting half of our species when that is not the reality.

      November 1, 2012 at 1:52 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Mama, perhaps a more concise way to state the differences in our positions is that you are telling us what the law allows you to do and I am making an appeal to what our religion asks of us.

      November 1, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • Primewonk

      " According to the Catholic Church, which I accept as the authority on the beginning of life..."

      If you want to discuss the existence of a mythical sky daddy, or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, feel free to quote your church al you want. For a discussion on science, why not use science sources?

      November 1, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill Deacon

      You're not addressing bodily autonomy for the woman, and that you are elevating the rights of a fetus above any other human at any other time in their life, as well as any other time in that particular organisms life.
      Also, what your religion tells you to do doesn't have any bearing on anyone other than you.

      November 1, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
    • Primewonk

      " you are telling us what the law allows you to do and I am making an appeal to what our religion asks of us."

      And this cuts to the heart of the matter. We are not a theocracy. Neither your version of a god, or any version of any god has legal standing in our secular laws. Thus whatever it is your god wants, needs, desires, or demands is irrelevant.

      You, of course, are free to live your life by the religious precepts you choose, provided those precepts do not violate the rights of another. You are not free, however, to try and force others to live according to your religious idiocy.

      November 1, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • mama k

      I think so, Bill. As you probably know by now, I am quite in line with James Madison and Thomas Jefferson on the need for separation of church and state. I think it is to everyone's benefit in the U.S., that these men were able to think beyond their own individual objectives. Without their foresight, the relatives of "Billy Grahams" and relatives of today's champions for Catholicism alike may have never even been able to produce the generations that have led to today's representation of these groups of people. JM had to go against his own birth religion which he helped establish as the Episcopal church in the U.S. to guarantee the rights of the Baptists. Persecution then between various sects was often severe and deadly.

      November 1, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
    • mama k

      Bill: "an appeal to what our religion asks of us."

      And I understand this is your belief, but it is not mine. I will try to respect you right to voice your opinion about that belief, but will always challenge anything that is not a full representation of what is in the Constitution and its Amendments.

      November 1, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Prime, again, you and Mama are correct. The government of the United States has decreed that women have the right to end the life of their children before they are born. I am just driving home the point that when it comes down to it, pro-abortionists abandon the debate about when the life of the baby begins and revert to the right of the mother to terminate it. Thanks for illuminating the discussion for those Christian voters who might have wondered what the issue really is.

      November 1, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Bill Deacon

      Hi -Bill...

      While, we also disagree as I am "pro-choice," I believe the laws, as they are currently, are 'best' given the situation.

      I understand your position in where you are coming from religion wise, etc...

      If we eliminate the right to choose, the ramifications of that would be horrific. It's been done before, and didn't workout... at all.

      The law allows a 'small window' of opportunity for a woman to make a choice while what would be a human, is still a zygote... basically a clump of cells, and sometimes it is a fetus, where you could fit it in a shot glass.

      I'm 'not' minimizing the importance of life, I just happen to hold the view that a Woman has the right to make that agonizing choice, as I do believe her rights trump that of the zygote.

      Lets not mince words here... some people like to say pro-choicers are 'pro-death' 'pro-murder' etc... but, people that consider themselves "pro-lifers" are in actuality what I consider to be: **Pro-Forced Gestationers**

      I do not believe that "forcing" someone to have a baby is a good idea. And, I'm in agreement with @Hawaiiguest in that I'm not aware of basically any situation where a person is forced to give up their personal bodily autonomy.

      Anyway... that's where I'm coming from. When you take away a woman's choice... you are courting horrible problems again.



      November 1, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • Primewonk

      " . The government of the United States has decreed that women have the right to end the life of their children before they are born. "

      This, of course is what you nutters do best. Try and re-voice the argument so it's terms suit your particular beliefs. Abortion isn't ending the life of a child any more than getting rid of an acorn kills an oak tree. Nice try though. I really wouldn't expect anything less from you.

      And "pro-abortionists"? Really? Again, attempting to re-voice the issue.

      November 1, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
    • fred

      You have just demonstrated the difference between light and dark, the two trees in the Garden of Eden, Cain and Able, etc etc right down to the two criminals on the cross with Christ.
      That acorn is the hope the promise of new life that will become a stately tree. Notice that; the growth is upward and toward the light, a strong root system nourishes the young plant, any branch not connected to the root dies and in time will reproduce a like kind.
      A godless mindset does not connect the upward outreaching evolution of life with the design and purpose of life. Jesus used the acorn example because everyone could understand it. Yet you cannot see the stately oak in the seed and see no difference between smashing it with a hammer or watering it with love.
      A godless mindset sees life like the acorn. If it spouts and dies or grows to maturity and topples in a wind storm its’ very existence is meaningless in a field of oaks. I say meaningless because if the acorn has no value the oak has no value.
      Those that believe are thankful and appreciate all that God has made and life has meaning far beyond the cluster of oaks in our sight right down to the last acorn and the potential within.

      November 1, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Concerned citizen

      @Bill Deacon
      You have made the statement "...what the law allows you to do and I am making an appeal to what our religion asks of us." The thing is Bill there are so many people that are not of "our religion" and do not believe in any of your churches dogma or teachings. Yet your lot continues to demand that those that do not believe as you do should do as YOU, the church and its followers want them to do, even though they have the right to chose under the law. Mind your own congregation and leave the rest of the population to do as they see fit for themselves, in other words, butt out.

      November 1, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      Equating a godless mindset with actual meaninglessness is a straw man. What a useless twisting of a position that hasn't even been expressed. Then again, that's what you're good at isn't it fred?

      November 1, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
    • fred

      Not a straw man at all just an obvious difference in perception between one who is godless and one who has God in their lives. Primwonk proposed a child is to a mother as an acorn is to an oak. Although that may be the correct answer in an IQ exam it is not correct relative to meaning of life. Without a perspective outside our own self interests the decision between burning a fetus or burning an acorn where oaks and humans are in excess abundance are one in the same. Alternate perspectives outside of self produce alternate conclusions. What force would limit perspective to self and flee a persective greater than self? You are under that force and should really consider what it is.

      November 1, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      1) Self given meaning is still meaning, so equating godless with no meaning doesn't work, not to mention that one is not needed for the other, hence the straw man since Primewonk did not say that life is meaningless.
      2) As for the end, say what you mean, and don't hide behind insinuations and other bullshit.

      November 1, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • fred

      Seems obvious that believers have a driving force that keeps them looking for relationship with a personal God. We look for (seek) the truth, the word of God for us in the Bible and in will of God in the way we live our lives. My assumption is that you also have a driving force and based on your posts that driving force is looking for lies in the Bible and getting the will of God out of sight and mind. That driving force is more than a simple bias.
      Regardless if you believe in God or not the truth of Word stands on its own. The truth of the word is not that there was or was not a flood rather that there were two types of man. One like Noah had a driving force that kept him building an arc for 120 years. The rest were driven by the pursuit of the things this world offers. The warning from the Word of God was to know where your driving force is coming from. Even if you do not believe at least know what is behind your driving force.

      November 1, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • Pastafairian

      @ fred
      The truth in the Word exists in the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and even though you are heretic in our eyes, we know you are driven by his noodliness and truth. If you just sat down to a large plate of pasta, meatballs and sauce, with a few beer to wash it down, you would see the truth.
      Anybody can make up BS and I would expect a reasoning person to get over their obsession with a 2100 year old goatherders myth.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Concerned – Yeah, that's called democracy. You get to push your ideas, I get to push mine. My values are not disqualified simply because you don't like their source. Neither are yours. I am only trying to clear away some of the smoke and mirrors around the right to life issue so that intelligent people can see it for what it is. Pro-lifers value life at conception. Pro-choicers give primacy to women. It's very simple. You either believe that life is worth preserving and protecting or you believe someone else can be granted that choice by the state. Or possibly you believe as Biden does that life is worth protecting but it's not worth alienating the female vote to do so.

      The larger issue is this, if the state can grant the right of another to terminate your life before you are born, where do we as a society draw the line against their power to take that life, liberty or property which God grants? It really isn't about the right of the woman to choose. It's about the infringement of the sanctiity of the individual by the collective. This is the overarching teaching of the Church. That because we are each sacred beings, we do not have the moral ground to dispose of those who inconvenience us. We are not even qualified to make the judgement. Out of this foundation spring the very concepts of personal freedom and property rights embodied in the Constiitution. Roe v Wade is wrong.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      "My assumption is that you also have a driving force and based on your posts that driving force is looking for lies in the Bible and getting the will of God out of sight and mind."
      Key word. Assumption. I don't need to look for lies in the bible, I just present it as it is, and you're the one that does the mental gymnastics to justify everything. And hell yes I want your "holy" book out of sight and mind, because it has absolutely no bearing on my life, and any attempts to legislate it, or to make laws based on it and only it, is a direct attack of my rights as an American Citizen. So fuck off fred, and your acceptance of forcing all to conform to your biblical bullshit.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:13 pm |
    • Concerned Citizen

      @Bill Deacon
      So you have the right to present a positon to overturn a law you disagree with, good luck, but it is a law. To bad your lot did not see fit to obey the law when pedophile priests were covered up in your orginization, the church knew about the crimes but did nothing. How about the whistleblowing butler that stated the Holy Spirit caused him to report the corruption and crimes in the vatican, and who goes to jail the butler of course. For someone that seems to know so much about what happens in the church why are you so blind to the evils? Like I stated before a woman has a right to "free will" as given by god, let your judgement day deal with the so called sinner. I say again butt out, it is not your call.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:28 pm |
    • mama k

      fred said to hawaiiguest: " My assumption is that you also have a driving force and based on your posts that driving force is looking for lies in the Bible and getting the will of God out of sight and mind. That driving force is more than a simple bias."

      Well that is one sorry-ass assumption there, fred. I've heard you make other poor assumptions and claims, fred. I seem to remember you making a claim that part of risky behavior of gays included drugs and alcohol abuse – at a higher incidence than non-gays; and I asked for you to support that statement, and I did not see a reply to that request. I think I know why you didn't answer because you were stating something without knowing what you were talking about.

      Also everything else you said is simply an opinion based on your religious views, yet you attempt to validate your opinion about your religion to others in a self-validating, circular manner, and chock full of poor assumptions to boot. You would be better off just stating your opinion and belief and just leaving it at that. Trying to support it in such a silly fashion is just that – silly.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:29 pm |
    • fred

      Your hot button is your overriding need to maintain the delusion you have the right to complete autonomy. Gods’ truth stands between you and your delusion which is why your hair stands on end when God enters. God will reveal the disposition of your soul and based on that disposition you will face judgment or glory. When you die whatever delusion of autonomy you have dissolves when you bow before God.
      Part of your delusion is that when death is an empty void you think you can hold onto autonomy onto your last breath. You get the last word, the final victory, you did it your way and you end it your way. The entire Bible speaks constantly to the cause of evil / rejecting God as the desire to be your own man autonomous form God.
      It is one thing to be angry with God as Sergeant Dan was in Forest Gump. If life did something or someone did something that God allowed you have the right to be angry but not autonomous? The important thing is to get a handle on why autonomy is on your hot button list.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:42 pm |
    • Romnesia

      Bill. Why do such valuers of life do very little for those that are actually born? People die in their thousands each day from starvation, preventable disease, auto accidents, guns, and from what you would call "acts of god". Where is the outrage over those deaths? It seems to me that religions only care about babies as potential members of the flock.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:43 pm |
    • Concerned Citizen

      @Bill Deacon
      OK I admit my last post was a bit of a rant and not on topic.
      Woman that do not want to carry a pregnancy to term have found ways in the past to destroy the fetus in many different and dangerous ways. This is part of the "free will" that a woman has over her body. Even if she believes as you and your church that it is a living child at conception, it is not usually what influences her right to choose, it is the reality of her situation. If you believe that repealing Roe vs Wade will stop abortion you are deluded, it will just go undergroung again. I could find your position just a tiny bit more acceptable if your stand on cotraception was not so hypocritical. As I said before let your god make the punishment on judgement day, watch the movie The Rapture, you may learn something.

      November 1, 2012 at 5:59 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      So instead of addressing my post, you once again go with a Red Herring. Very typical. Demonstrate your god exists fred, because until then, your assertions of "god's truth" are completely hollow and useles, just like your last post.

      November 1, 2012 at 6:38 pm |
    • Concerened Citizen

      hawaiiguest is of course right, you are delusional and avoid your god's truth statements. If I am given free will, which I assume gives me the option to deny any belief in any god/ gods, I will happily reject any belief in any god and therefore any belief in an after life. If I am wrong "telle est la mort".

      November 1, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      Done already? I should ask you to prove your god from the beginning, since you always run away when I ask it.

      November 1, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • billdeacons

      Concerned, thanks for backing up. It's always discouraging when the conversation veers into the sewer. Three things: I agree and my Catholic faith advocates more and better response to the poor and needy. So, as common as the accusation is, it isn't a valid argument for abortion rights to say that pro-life is the singular advocacy of the Catholic Church. Secondly, I have never said that repeal of R v W would end abortion. I said the court's decision was wrong. I believe the ability to end abortion lies in the hands of women. When women learn their value as more than objects in the seexually engorged society we live in and stop creating babies with men who refuse to be responsible fathers, then we will have a beginning upon which we can construct the type of social justice that the poor and needy deserve. Read my earlier posts. My argument is that pro life is fundamental to social justice, not that it is comprehinsive of it. The right to life preceeds social justice not the other way around. And lastly, I've posted the data on abuse in the Catholic Church so many times I am done with it. Condemn the Church all you like for pedophilia but the Church doesn't advocate it, is not the main transgressor in society at large and has done more to stem the insidious invasion of criminals into it's community than probably every other large group in the world.


      November 1, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      "When women learn their value as more than objects in the seexually engorged society we live in and stop creating babies with men who refuse to be responsible fathers, then we will have a beginning upon which we can construct the type of social justice that the poor and needy deserve."

      THe reality of the situation escapes you.

      November 1, 2012 at 10:06 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Hawaii you accept depravity as the norm

      November 2, 2012 at 9:04 am |
    • midwest rail

      "....depravity as the norm." Hmmmmm, now that sounds familiar.

      November 2, 2012 at 9:06 am |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill Deacon

      You calling something a depravity is no more to the point than banana=computer monitor

      November 2, 2012 at 2:07 pm |
  20. Free Man in the Republic of Texas

    Courting Evangelical and Catholic voting blocs in Iowa...

    Nancy Pelosi:
    "Get over your conscience."

    Bill Clinton:
    "There is NO such thing as truth."

    " "I" have "evolved" "

    FORWARD -> -> ->
    To total depravity !!!

    November 1, 2012 at 11:00 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.

November 2012