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November 7th, 2012
08:21 AM ET
Election results raise questions about Christian right's influenceBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor Washington (CNN) - For many conservative Christian leaders, it was a nightmare scenario: Barack Obama decisively re-elected. Same-sex marriage adopted by voters in some states. Rigorously anti-abortion candidates defeated in conservative red states. On multiple levels, Tuesday’s election results raised questions about the Christian right’s agenda on American politics, eight years after the movement helped sweep President George W. Bush into a second term and opened the era of state bans on same-sex marriage. “For the first time tonight, same-sex marriage has been passed by popular vote in Maine and Maryland,” said Robert P. Jones, a Washington-based pollster who specializes in questions about politics and religion. “The historic nature of these results are hard to overstate,” Jones said. “Given the strong support of younger Americans for same-sex marriage, it is unlikely this issue will reappear as a major national wedge issue.” Your Take: Should churches be polling places? Some conservative evangelical leaders echoed that line. Albert Mohler, who heads the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said on Twitter that votes for same-sex marriage suggested that “we are witnessing a fundamental moral realignment of the country.” A Tuesday ballot measure to legalize same-sex marriage in Washington state is still pending. In Minnesota, voters rejected a Tuesday measure that would have banned same-sex marriage there. Thirty-eight states have banned same-sex marriage, mostly via constitutional amendments. Obama’s victory also raised questions about the Christian right's influence in the electorate. Though evangelical leaders as diverse as the Southern Baptist Convention’s Richard Land and Christian icon Billy Graham voiced support for Mitt Romney (Graham stopped short of an official endorsement), Obama performed better among white evangelicals than he did in 2008 in some states. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter In swing state Ohio, exit polls showed that Obama got 30% support among white evangelicals. While that’s hardly a victory, it’s better than the 27% support Obama got among those voters four years ago. Before the election, many evangelical leaders predicted that opposition to Obama over his support for abortion rights, his personal endorsement of same-sex marriage and his vision of government as a force for good would trump reservations evangelicals had about Romney’s past social liberalism and his Mormon faith. “There is no evidence in voting patterns that President Obama's 'evolution' on same-sex marriage cost him anything,” Mohler said in another tweet Tuesday night. Obama also narrowly won Catholics, even after the U.S. Catholic bishops waged a rigorous campaign against the Obama administration around the issue of religious liberty. The bishops alleged Obama was forcing Catholics to violate their own teachings by making health insurance companies provide free contraception coverage for virtually all employees. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories John Green, a religion and politics expert at the University of Akron, said Obama’s win among Catholics was partly a testament to the growing Latino demographic. “Maybe Hispanic Catholics were not as moved by religious liberty-type arguments as by immigration and economics,” he said. Unlike in 2004, when John Kerry - a former altar boy - lost Catholic voters, the Obama campaign had a robust religious outreach program aimed largely at Catholic and evangelical voters. The effort included videos from Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, a Catholic, talking about their Christian faith. Obama's success among some religious demographics also illustrated how economic issues, as opposed to culture war concerns, dominated the election cycle. The defeat Tuesday of two Republican Senate candidates who made national headlines with anti-abortion remarks also raised questions about the Christian right’s power. In Missouri, U.S. Senate candidate Todd Akin, who in August walked back his remark that "if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," lost his bid to unseat Sen. Claire McCaskill, a Democrat. Akin’s campaign became a national cause for conservative Christian activists after the Republican Party abandoned the candidate and encouraged him to drop out over his abortion remark. In Indiana, Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock lost his race against Democrat Joe Donnelly after saying last month that pregnancies resulting from rape are “something that God intended to happen.” Conservative Christians did claim some victories Tuesday night, including helping the GOP retain control of the U.S. House of Representatives and helping elect tea party favorite Ted Cruz as a U.S. senator from Texas. Ralph Reed, the leader of conservative group the Faith & Freedom Coalition, planned a Wednesday morning press conference to release his data about what he called the enduring influence of “values voters.” “Preliminary evidence is they turned out and they voted heavily for Romney,” Reed said in an e-mail message Tuesday night. soundoff (4,434 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Adults that think Rituals and Praying actually do something, makes me laugh and worry at the same time.
It is as ridiculous as thinking Santa can deliver presents to billions of people in a few hours, you just afraid to think about it.
Which is more likely
1) the answer is beyond us at this point
2) Rituals, candles, robes and a 2000 year old book actually make something happen to apease a god ?
Providing a answer in the absence of one is not necessarily the right one, this is what conman trick
Let's call them what they really are.........."Ideological purity, compromise as weakness, a fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism, denying science, unmoved by facts, undeterred by new information, a hostile fear of progress, a demonization of education, a need to control women's bodies, severe xenophobia, tribal mentality, intolerance of dissent, and a pathological hatred of US government. They can call themselves the Tea Party. They can call themselves conservatives. And they can even call themselves Republicans, though Republicans certainly shouldn't. But we should call them what they are– the American Taliban."
I have sat at the gates of Sodom and thought of Sodom is a great city. i look at the cities of this country and feel that some of the gates your building are very similar to that of Sodom. Very tragic to see that your so stubborn and adamant and opening the wrath of God. Be it right or left....you are all so deep rooted to claim you are all right. Under the name of freedom I feel the same gates were opened. And even Jesus named the Cities of Sodom and Gommorah when he was on this earth. People may laugh people may scoff, but this generation has opened themselves to see Gods judgement. Gods Protection and Gods Judgement will knock on the doors very soon. If there was something that God came down to earth to punish. Do not cry nor do not run for quick prayers or to churches when his hand will come very strongly.
Repent ! Repent! and walk away from your wickedness...if God can bring something to the top of World, the best of the nations ....Our sins can drown us to the deepest seas
It's "you're", not "your". Typical bible babbler writing. Your whole comment is just a load of crap. The sad thing is, you probably really believe it.
I'm sorry, but long tedious psedou-quotes from the bible do not win debates. Please state a point rather than allude to it.
Americans do repent. That's why a diaper wearing cult member is not president.. thank you Jesus, you still love us
oooooh, empty proxy threats......how scary
God is real, no doubt. Science actually proves God. Study the fundamentals about anything in Science and then dive into each fundamental. There is a fundamental that makes up all of Sciences fundamentals. Some examples, Gravity, quarks, electromagnetic force, the Universe.
How does science prove god? That's absurd. If anything, science proves there is no god.
Great point BW!
That doesn't prove anything.
Yeah, great post, BW! It does more to demonstrate the utter stupidity of religion far better than anything I could possibly come up with. You're doing us atheists a great favor. Keep up the good work.
This has equal weight with the statement, "Rabbits prove the existence of god because there are rabbits."
As a Christian, statements like this make me cringe. Science proves nothing definitively, let alone "God". The same one who actually said His name is YHWH and not to be flippantly changed. Your string of random things from the fields of science is random. YHWH says YHWH is love. That is the most powerful force. How does one prove love? Science tries to quantify and explain natural phenomena. And when Christians makethe Bible say things it doesn't like the world is a few thousand years old, they make sane people run. Please consider, mega church leaders are not always right. Check the track record. The Bible is the story of things one needs to understand Christ. Other details left out.
"when Christians make the Bible say things it doesn't like the world is a few thousand years old, they make sane people run." "The Bible is the story of things one needs to understand Christ. Other details left out."
The problem is that the details are not left out, they are just plain wrong. There was no global flood as described in the bible within the last 9,000 years. The universe was not created in six days or six thousands years or six million years or even six billion years. If it had just left it all out I would be more inclined to accept your theory, but it did not. Just like every other ancient culture the Israelites invented a creation story and a history for their people as they came out of slavery to Egypt. None of Genesis was known to them at that time, it was written in the wilderness by a man who had studied Egyptian mythology and ancient creation myths since his childhood as an Egyptian prince. Read some of them sometimes and it's like reading a pagan version of Genesis with first humans, snakes, redemption and the creation of the universe, and it all predates Genesis and was undoubtedly a direct influence.
Have you considered that the reason so many cultures have similar stories is because something in common happened? King Arthur and Robin Hood in their many versions were myths until archeology found they existed.
aaaaccc, have YOU considered that most of the tales of Robin Hood and King Arthur have little basis in reality? The fact that such men existed doesn't mean that the exploits ascribed to them occurred in reality.
@4a's4c's
Ahhh yes, who needs silly things like details or facts for that matter. If I'm reading a short story about a house I'm interested in, a little detail like it has no roof shouldn't matter. If my child is in school, the small, unimportant fact that they are failing shouldn't matter to me at all. Blind faith is truly the way to go.
True. But, I was not the one who claimed the basis of my belief is based on a string of science words, purely on the Bible in its current edited form, etc.
I am bothered by the logic on both sides. What I was addressing specifically in the King Arthur example was that the existence of similar stories in multiple cultures neither negates nor proves the Bible.
Why do Christians and atheist constantly fight and debate each other? @ Christians: All who believe in the Son of God was chosen and destined to be children of God before the world was created. If you are a TRUE Christian you should accept this simple truth. John 8:47-"He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." Why argue with fools? Why argue with children of death? Why argue with people who are and will no longer be? Why argue with the ones who will be forever forgotten and seperated from the Living God and His children? @ Atheist: Why argue with Christians? You cannot provide the smallest piece of evidence proving the non-existence of a Creator. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. @ Christians go to the right, @ atheist go to the left. Agree to disagree. Soon enough the truth will be revealed to everyone. If you are elected as the Son og God says, you will come to the light and the truth will not be hidden from you. If you were not elected the truth will be kept from you due to the hardness of your hearts and the blinding power of your father satan. Remeber it is God who chooses us first to come to Him. Love Him who first loved us.
If you see some native people doing a rain dance you dont have to have proof its nonsense right ? well to smart atheist people seeing religious people light candles and wear robes is just as ridiculous, there is no debat there is only growing up mentally and common sense. Did Adam and Ev's kids screw each other ? no thats impossible they would be deformed retards but they didn't know about genes 2000 years ago when it was made up. Did a snake or donkey talk ? laughable no. and the list of over the top magic goes on and on. An all knowing God if he existed could solve all the Biblical problems a little easier and not in such a campy way.
God acts in funny ways bob. Have you ever heard of the school of hard knocks? It's the toughest and most effective curriculum out there and God created it!
Sometimes our eyes don't open until hitting rock bottom wakes us up...
Jesus is the most powerful figure known to mankind (Fact),
I would agree that it is pointless to argue with someone who is convinced otherwise, however, we are called to spread the gospel. I have heard enough testimonies to believe that we never know what God uses to reach a person, all we need to do is present the word and let him do the work.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
2 Corinthians 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints
"All who believe in the Son of God was chosen and destined to be children of God before the world was created."
Oh look we have a determinist. Well then, my un-belief is gods fault. Thanks for clearing that up.
You can show people the door, but it seems they choose to walk into the wall
Who the hell called you to spread the gospel?
An atheist doesn't have to prove anything. We KNOW the Christians are believing a bunch of nonsense. The problem is, Christians can't prove their IS a God. All you can do is point to the sky and the moon and the rainbow and say, "See? Only a god could do that." Really? Such maroons...
steve jobs was more powerful.
If this election teaches the Republicans nothing else, it should be that the social conservatives of their party need to go. That is what lost them this election. Most of the country is moderate, not evangelical, yet the Republicans run their nominee selection process as if 90% of the country is anti-gay and anti-abortion. Until they stop pandering to them, they will continue to lose.
The Christian right never had any influence, they just had votes. Look at the actual record of republican attempts to pass legislation near and dear to the evangelicals – there basically isn't any. Any time they felt the troops needed a boost they would sponsor some meaningless dead on arrival bill they could talk about, but really the only relationship here was one way. Somehow the republicans got the evangelicals to believe that corporate tax breaks and deregulation of the money lenders were part of God's plan, but actually delivering on any evangelical legislation never quite happened.
Christian Right = Radical Repressive Religous Wingnutz. Good riddance.
What do the results mean for the Christian right? That they're wrong, of course!
fundamentalist Christians/Catholics will still be a force regionally. where they are a majority, the bible (and interpretations of it, will rule.
@Otto Where does the Bible rule? Show me people giving up everything and following Jesus. Haven't seen it anywhere.
Here is the reality of Christianity – something many people may not want to hear. You can't paint any group with such a broad brush. There are some closed-minded Christians out there who are truly pharisees but a majority of them realize their religion is faith based and don't expect others to follow. The biggest misconception that is thrown around is that Christians want some form of Sharia Law. This is absolutely not the case. All Christians want is to be able to hold their beliefs without being forced into doing something they don't want to do. I hear it all the time, people calling Christians "bigots". However, if you look at the facts most Christians, as I stated earlier, believe their views are faith based. Thus, they could be wrong. Many atheists and agnostics believe that science is a fact. As if they could prove the big bang happened without some kind of leap of faith itself. Therefore, it is not the Christians who are the bigots but rather the atheists of the world.
From the original Reality-
The Apostles' Creed 2012: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Jerusalem.
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
Amen
(references used are available upon request)
Dude, science has been proving religion wrong for centuries.
Look how far it has pushed you. 14 billion years. All the way back to the big bang.
At one point it was lightening, then the sun, then earthquakes and solor eclipses etc that you fundies pointed to as your proof of god. ("see, tell me how that happened, it was god.....)
And it has all been easily explained with science.
Now you are reduced to saying, "Well, what came before the big bang? See, it was god..."
Guess what, science will figure that out too.
But keep believing in your sky fairy. Some adults just can't let go of their security blanket.
Uh, most people, period, don't believe that science is a fact, they KNOW that science IS a FACT. SCIENCE FACT, unlike science fiction, are two different things because science fiction is fiction until it is proven to be a fact. Christians, on the other hand, believe in a higher power and a diety based entirely on faith because there are no facts to back that up... unless you want to use the Bible as "proof", and it's sorely lacking in any type of emperical FACTS. There are bigots on both sides of the coin, but I find it interesting that a huge group of evangelical Christians came out for Romney, even believing that Mormonism is a cult, but refuse to vote for Obama because they still believe fervently that he's a Muslim... I guess Muslim trumps cult every time.
Have you even read the bible. There is so much crap in there, I don't know where to start.
Yes, there are some good things in there, but if you were to analyze the book, you would find that over 90% of the stuff written in the bible either makes no sense, or shows just how evil god is.
@Niknak I don't recall writing what you put in quotes as if you were quoting me. You guys are all proving my point for me though!
No, I was not quoting you personally Reality Bites, just an ordinary run of the mill fundie from any generation.
See, back in the day, like the time around jeebus, some fundie, most likely one of your ancestors, was trying to convince someone, most likely one of myy ancestors, that god existed.
The fundie said, "Well, if god does not exist, explain lightening." My ancestor said he could not explain it.
Your fundie ancestor said, "See, then that means it came from god and god exists."
The fundie and his family/friends, all your ancestors, blindly put their heads in the sand content that they knew everything there was to know as everything was just explained as "god did it."
My ancestors, not content with that explanation, went on to prove, using science, what lightening was, as well as many other natural occurances.
And each time they explained a phenonemon, your fundie ancestors just came up with another one.
Many years passed, and science just kept pushing the fundies further and further back into time.
Until we got to this current time, where you fundies are left with nothing more then "Well, what came before the big bang." as your "proof" of god.
And just like with every other line you fundies have drawn in the sand, science will just plow right thru it.
You are running out of real estate to draw your next line...........
@ Niknak I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Nobody can be "convinced" of God's existence. You have to seek it. Only once someone has sought and found God does one realize the reason religion has been around for so long.
Believe me I understand where you're coming from – five years ago I was YOU. I would come onto sites like this and bash people like ME.
It is time for the hate, name calling, wishing people would disapper or die and intolorance end. And that is talking to the left and liberals. Just read what they wrote on this post. It is time to unite and work together for the good of America, whether you are left or rigth, republican or conservative, non religious or religious lets restore America. It is time for honesty in the media. It is time to stop fighting over little things and concentrate on the big things such as economy and jobs, etc...
The problem with all religions, is how they force their beliefs on others. The lies they tell their kids, are even worse than the ones about sanata claus. I'd bet over 50% of the mental duress adolescents endure, is due to religion.
You know how we can conclude that America's days are over - when a politician can make a majority winning coalition by pandering to -
– gays (flip-flopping on gay-marriage views)
– single women (Sandra Fuke - looking for free contraception for their promiscuous ways)
– minorities (pandering to blacks and latinos - Trayvon Martin and DREAM ACT)
This coalition sending the winner to the WH is a sure death-knell to America.
How quaint, a Fox news watcher still in denial.
You lost the election because your side has hate in their hearts, and the rest of us know it.
Good luck with the angry white man voter stategy. I am sure it will work great in '16.
Is that you out there, Rush?...or are you just channeling Rush, Mike?
They shoulda voted for the guy who
runs off to france rather than fight for his country
tell lie on top of lie
who keeps most of his money in offshore accounts
who invests a lot of his wealth in foreign countries
who would rather make millions for some rich white guys rather than save the jobs of thousands of middle class people
who is a member of a cult with a very shady history
who cuts off someones hair because he is different
who tries to use the deaths of 4 americans to further his own ambitions
I could go on, but I think you know who I'm talking about
You are a racist. I'm sick of conservatives wringing their hands saying America is dead or will die in 1-3 years. Oh but hey, if things work out, then God performed a miracle. You're all a bunch of crazy, cult-worshipping idiots. Meanwhile, life will go on with one of the best Presidents in the last 50 years. Shut up or move to Canada or something.
I sure hope so!! They are as bad as the Taliban.
Jim Belize, you left of the first part of a verse. Jesus actually said the greatest commandment is to love God, and the second greatest is to love your neighbor. Matthew 22:34-35..
But why do you christians all seem to love the strip club, the casino and your guns more?
Why do you need to love god? Did he have an unhappy childhood? Does he have human feelings? As with all aspects of religion, this makes no logical sense.
Prayer changes things .
Yeah?
Well, what did it change for Romney?
Considering who actually won the election, maybe Blue State Jesus is the one that actually exists?
Mormons are not Christians, their prayers are not directed to God.
How is it you know what Mr.
Romney prayed that wasn't answered .
Were you there?
@ Truth NOT be told
God told me. It came to me before the election and said Romney has been praying, but ain't gonna happen.
It also told me you won't be going to heaven either.
Sorry bro, but it was from god and all so it must be true.
The only conversation God would have with you would involve your repentance. Frankly I think that as you insult God He has chosen to let you go your own foolish way. Those God loves He predestines to be in His family. I do not think you're related so your entire post and entire life is a lie.
Oh no!
I am going to the firery pit!
I insulted god!
I am doomed!
Woes me!
My god is bigger than your god.
Ah TBT.. who are you to say what god will or will not do.. and who are you to decide whether god actually spoke to niknak or not.. you are too presumptuous and a heretic to claim that you know what god does with other people.
simply put, prove that he did not talk to niknak
I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module, the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
Other than humans and praying mantises, are there any other "living things" that could be considered believers?
The Christian right has no credibility with the majority of American anymore. When you align yourselves with the right-wing of this nation – a Party that promotes greed, selfishness, exploitation, and piggishness as policies, while calling the poor "the parasites of humanity" – you've proven yourself to be a total hypocrite.
I would have at least a bit more respect for them if they would just come out and say they don't vote democratic because they hate black people.
Because that is what it comes down to.
If you are not going to vote democratic because you hate black people you do not use the phrase black people.
Yes, funny how the people who deny that evolution is real are the same ones who practice "survival of the fittest (richest)" and let the poor perish.
Yes, Truth not be told, I know that you and your kind use a much different word for black.
@niknak
Your ignorance goes before you like a beacon announcing idiot alert, idiot alert. I refuse to describe any man by color, all are simply equal human beings.
Unfortunately, the rest of your fundie friends don't feel the same way as you.
I work with them, and they are racist to the last guy.
And since you claim this is a Xtian nation, then who were those people who were taking blacks as slaves, and then lynching them during Jim Crow?
Your party, the one of "god," is the most backward, racist group of cretins I have ever had the displeasure of being around.
I can't wait to retire, so I don't have to be around fundies anymore.
They disquest me.
I hope their influence is over. I align with the Libertarian party and one reason that the GOP is such a turn-off for me is the hypocritical social conservatives. They have claimed separation of church and state when it appears Obama is violating their rights, but they keep trying to violate the rights of others by forcing the church into the state. There has never been a valid reason raised as to why gay marriage should be illegal. Not to mention the tyranny of trying to force your beliefs on 300 million Americans against their will. It's high time the GOP recognized how much damage the religious right has done to their party.
Finally, someone else that gets it! This country was founded on principals of freedom. The social conservatives and religous right are huge hypocrites, claiming a monopoly on patriotism while attempting to trample the rights of everyone that doesn't share their beliefs. I hope their influence on politics is over forever!
Also the reason the Christian Right freaks out over the ACA bill, it's not that they don't like it, they're still just waiting on Jesus to appear and cure them. Again, "Faith."
Funny how god never seems to cure amputees, or autism or down syndrome.
I guess god just does not like those types of people......
@niknak
You have no conclusive proof that someone in those groups has not been healed. Your statement shows an inbred hatred and bigotry that you claim on other posts to be above.
OK truth NOT be told, give us and the medical community some proof of your claim that an amputee has gotten their limb back or an autism or down syndrome child has "cured."
And while you are at it, give us some proof of your sky fairy.
We have been waiting for since forever and you STILL have not gotten back to us with that.
THE INFLUENCE OF THE FAUX CHRISTIAN MAJORITY IS DYING OUTSIDE THE FAUX cHRISTIAN SOUTH. iT WILL BE REPLACED BY TRUE CHRISTIANITY. You know true Christianity: love thy neighbor, judge not, lest u will be jud.ged,God is love
I live in Oklahoma and get to spend a lot of time with these crazies. Some are ok. Unless you are trying to debate issues like Gay Marriage and Abortion. Then they use the bible as fact. If you don't view the bible as fact then you don't have, "faith." Faith is the issue here. The same people that view the bible as fact and refuse to question are the same people that listen to FoxNews and do not question their ideas either. When science is used all hell breaks loose here. I am a socialist in Oklahoma and it is a lot of fun, especially when my Nissan Leaf turns heads in a oil rich state.
I hear you Dodo, as I work with fundies from all over the nation.
It is amazing how they hate science, yet depend on it daily for their livelyhood and health and comfort.
They all say DNA testing is the product of the devil when it is used to date something that shows the earth is older than what they have been told by their religious "elders." Yet know DNA is right and true when used to convict some black guy of a crime (yes, the DNA is slightly different, but it is still the same science).