November 20th, 2012
04:38 PM ET

Church of England rejects female bishops by six votes

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
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(CNN)– After decades of debate, the Church of England formally voted down draft legislation that would have allowed women to become bishops.

Debate on the draft legislation Tuesday spanned seven hours and saw more than 100 people voice support or opposition for the draft legislation.

At its General Synod meeting, despite the ardent support of the incoming Archbishop of Canterbury, the Rt. Rev. Justin Welby, the measure failed to secure a two-thirds majority in all of the three voting bodies of the church, the House of Bishops, the House of Clergy and the House of Laity.

At the General Synod, elected church leaders, both laity and clergy, meet at least twice annually to decide on everything from the governing rules of the church to worship practices to budgets.

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"The ministry of women priests," Welby, the current Bishop of Durham and archbishop-designate, told the Synod, "has been powerful in all areas of the church except as part of the episcopacy."

"It is time to finish the job and vote for this measure. But also the Church of England needs to show how to develop the mission of the church in a way that demonstrates that we can manage diversity of view without division; diversity in amity, not diversity in enmity," he said, according to a copy of his statement posted on the church's website.

During the debate, Jane Pattison, from the Diocese of Sheffield, voiced opposition to the measure, according to the Episcopal News Service. She told the assembly that it would “promote the loss of conservative evangelical and traditional catholic ministry in the Church of England. I suggest that the church cannot afford this loss. … England cannot afford this loss if we are serious about sharing the Gospel with the nation.”

In the Church of England women have been able to serve as priests since the early 1990s.  The draft legislation would have continued that service by "enabling a woman to be consecrated to the office of the bishop if she otherwise satisfies the requirements of Canon Law as to the persons who may be consecrated as bishops."

Had the measure passed, canon law for the church would also have been amended to allow for female bishops and the General Synod would have then had to send that on formally to the Queen of England as a "Petition to the Crown" for her to grant "Royal Assent and License" to make the change to the church canon.

Queen Elizabeth is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England.  The two archbishops of the church, the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Archbishop of York, along with 24 other bishops, have seats in Parliament in the House of Lords.  The Church of England is part of the global Anglican Communion.  The Church of England says 1.7 million people take part each month in services and four in 10 people in Brittain say they belong to the church.

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Before the results of the vote were read to the assembly, the members and the gallery were reminded by Archbishop of  York John Sentamu of "the long-standing custom of receiving the results of votes on controversial matters in silence."

The legislation titled "Draft Bishops and Priests (Consecration and Ordination of Women) Measure" received broad support by the House of Bishops with 44 votes for, three against and two abstentions. The House of Clergy was similarly supportive with 148 in favor and 45 against. Both votes cleared the needed two-thirds majority.  But the 132 for and 74 against vote in the House of Laity came up six votes shy needed for the measure to pass.

The Bishop of Bristol said in a statement the vote was disastrous.

"Whilst I have never believed it necessary for anyone to leave the church on the basis of the measure before us today, others clearly took another view," the Rt. Rev. Mike Hill said in a statement posted by the Diocese of Bristol.

“It will be very difficult for those of us who have supported the ordination of women bishops to process our disappointment in the days ahead. My prayers are with the many people who are hurting, particularly women in our churches and those within and outside the church who are bemused and disillusioned by such a failure," Hill said.

The House of Bishops of the Church of England will hold an emergency session to consider the consequences of the vote on Wednesday morning according to a statement by the Church of England.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Anglican • Belief • Christianity • Women

soundoff (451 Responses)
  1. montford2


    November 20, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
  2. montford2

    As it should be.
    Women should only be in the congregation.

    November 20, 2012 at 11:36 pm |
    • noodles doodles and toodles

      Ah yes. Just like St. Paul said when he made his "goof", and said women really WERE still under the old law.

      November 21, 2012 at 2:39 am |
  3. Reality

    What a waste of time!! And why is that?

    Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity, the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" are converging these religions into some simple rules of life. No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, male/female bishops, popes, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired.

    Ditto for houses of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples and synagogues.

    November 20, 2012 at 11:14 pm |
    • Al Christian

      Reality - You sound like a really smart guy who has all the answers. Now, how do you convince the billions of people who disagree with you?

      November 20, 2012 at 11:20 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Abram was a Hebrew issacc was a Hebrew yaccob was a Hebrew Jonah was a Hebrew Hebrewisms of west africa

      November 20, 2012 at 11:20 pm |
    • Reality

      Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/

      From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

      Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

      To wit;

      From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

      "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
      Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

      Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

      Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

      The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

      Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.

      The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

      "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."

      The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

      With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,


      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      p.168. by Ted Peters:

      Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

      So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

      November 21, 2012 at 6:53 am |
    • Reality

      Putting the kibosh/”google” on all religions in less than ten seconds: Priceless

      • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

      • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

      • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

      • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

      • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

      • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

      • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

      Added details available upon written request.

      A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

      e.g. Taoism

      "The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

      Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "

      November 21, 2012 at 6:55 am |
  4. 200 TON HAMMER

    ACTS CHAPTER 21:38 Apostle Shaul looked Egyptian are black he was not European looking

    November 20, 2012 at 11:04 pm |
  5. Al Christian

    George - Where did it all come from? "In the beginning was the word..." Hint, if you are mathematically capable - consider this in light of information theory, after you have studied the works of Marcel J. E. Golay and Leo Szilard. Mix them all together and you might have some insight. Or keep putting down people who post here. Either approach will make you feel good. "For every complex problem there is a simple answer - and it is wrong."

    November 20, 2012 at 10:39 pm |
    • George

      So it just came from the word. Wonderful. I see. I get it now. I'm convinced. Where do I sign?

      November 20, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
    • End Religion

      Sounds like the death knell of religion to me.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      To a statistical mechanic everything looks like a nail.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:06 pm |
    • Al Christian

      George - It is difficult to communicate with some people when they share little in common or when they have no faith. St. Paul says in his first letter to the church in Corinth that, ".. the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing ..." It makes me wonder why so many non-believers spend (waste?) their time in this blog. What are they about?

      November 20, 2012 at 11:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Sorry, that didn't come out right. To a man with a hammer everything looks like information.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:08 pm |
    • Al Christian

      Tom Tom the Other One - To a man with an outsized ego everyone else looks like a fool. If the shoe fits ...

      November 20, 2012 at 11:10 pm |
    • End Religion

      outsized ego? lol, pot meet kettle.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      If the shoe fits it must be Cinderella.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:26 pm |
    • George

      Things that are real should not require faith. Otherwise how do you know what to have fait in? Why not have faith in me?

      November 20, 2012 at 11:29 pm |
  6. Carole Clarke

    Well, that's a shame – they are denying over half the population. Never mind Leviticus, what did Jesus say about the acceptance of women? And the Queen is the head of that church along with the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Queen is a woman. It isn't logical to accept her and deny her gender above a certain rank. Maybe it's time for a female boycott of the church. No females in the pews, none to act in admin, the choir, cleaning staff, cooks, etc. All those wonderful fetes, fairs, fund drives, meals on wheels, church charities – everything that women do. Getting the right to vote was the start – too late to put any of us back in the bottle.

    November 20, 2012 at 10:34 pm |
    • Cleombrotus

      What difference does it make to you what an organization that no one is required to join does? Why do you care? It doesn't affect you or that "half the population" in any way, shape, manner, or form.

      Yet you have to comment negatively.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:06 pm |
    • End Religion

      some slaves are happy to go on being slaves, even as they mumble against slavery

      November 20, 2012 at 11:22 pm |
    • Cleombrotus

      EndReligion, allow me to suggest that it is YOU who are the slave. It's you who are the one who belongs to the hive mentality growing in Western Civilization these days, not the religious. They are the counterculture while you are the Borg and everyone MUST believe as you do or, in your mind, there's something wrong with them. Yet, you cannot or will not show what it is they are doing wrong, For you it's enough to cast stones.

      I despise that hive mentality and I will oppose it till the day I die.

      November 21, 2012 at 8:27 am |
    • End Religion

      @cleo: "EndReligion, allow me to suggest that it is YOU who are the slave. It's you who are the one who belongs to the hive mentality growing in Western Civilization these days, not the religious. They are the counterculture while you are the Borg and everyone MUST believe as you do or, in your mind, there's something wrong with them."

      You are aware the vast majority of people in "Western Civilization" believe in God? You are aware this puts your assertions squarely in the camp of the typical religious nutter who must redefine words to continue the machinations of their delusion, such as calling their religion "truth" instead of belief?

      counterculture: A way of life and set of attitudes opposed to or at variance with the prevailing social norm.
      hive mind: refers to shared set of beliefs and moral attitudes which operate as an unifying force within society

      The social norm is religion. Counterculture by definition is the people without it, not as you asserted. A hive mind requires a set of shared beliefs/morals of the group. Atheists are defined by answering "no" to one simple question "do you believe in any gods?" Atheism is not a set of beliefs or morals such as found in religion.

      There is something wrong with people who practice religion. They believe in imaginary creatures. That's cute when you're 4; not so cute when one reaches the age of reason.

      "Yet, you cannot or will not show what it is they are doing wrong, For you it's enough to cast stones. I despise that hive mentality and I will oppose it till the day I die."

      This blog is FILLED with instances of what is wrong with religion. Since you actually defend no logical position but instead simply despise whatever is the the hive mentality of the moment and oppose it until death, I expect to see all your future posts rail against religion since I have proven to you above that *it* is the hive mentality of the moment.

      November 21, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
  7. Ancient Alens

    Fvck, religion is stupid.

    November 20, 2012 at 10:33 pm |
  8. Rockstone

    Lift up your hearts! It is meet and right so to do!

    November 20, 2012 at 10:30 pm |
    • End Religion

      Hope you enjoyed your religion while it lasted.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:51 pm |
  9. George

    Wait, they are allowed to be preists? God commanded in Leviticus that women be kept slient in church. What do they do, use sign language? Who are they to doubt God's wisdom? Hellfire. That's what they'll get.

    November 20, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
    • Agapatos

      Once upon a time not long ago, EVERYONE was silent in church (Except for the preacher).

      November 20, 2012 at 10:25 pm |
    • George

      Any now we have women flapping their jaws when God clearly stated they are to be kept silent in church. The bible is never wrong.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:28 pm |
    • J.W

      George do you follow all of Leviticus? I bet I can find something that God commanded that you do not follow.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:40 pm |
    • George

      JW- I don't follow any of it since it's a bunch of BS. You people are the ones with the problem, claiming it is the world of god and proves this and that and must be followed, then a minute later you people aren't follwowing it. And you wonder why we think you are not right in the head.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:44 pm |
    • J.W

      What do you mean by 'you people?' What group of people do you classify me as?

      November 20, 2012 at 11:11 pm |
    • George

      JW – religious people.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:15 pm |
    • J.W

      You assumed that what you said was what I believe, but you don't really know that.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
    • Al Christian

      George - You are obviously intelligent. And you remind me of the saying, "He knew the price of everything and the value of nothing."

      November 20, 2012 at 11:50 pm |
  10. mendacitysux

    Cake or death?

    November 20, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
  11. Nigel Godard

    Untill nextime my loving sisters in faith. Keep up the persuasion. The conservative element with its icy heart will soon yield to your cause and women and men all over will benefit. Give them time.

    November 20, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • Agapatos

      The women with the best hearts (St. Catherine of Siena, St. Teresa of Avila, Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich) have ALL supported the all-male priesthood. Why because it's BEST for women, and best for society!

      November 20, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
    • End Religion

      Do not give them time. They've had enough. DO not accept subjugation any longer. Rise up against the authority that keeps you in chains. Religion is dying anyway; better get a piece of the pie now while you can.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:56 pm |
    • Akira

      St. Catharine of Siena died in 1380.
      St. Teresa of Avila died in 1582.
      Bl. Anne Catharine Emmerich died in 1824.

      They ALL supported all-male priesthood, not because it was BEST for women, (what bullsh!t!) and best for a [male dominated] society, but because they had no freaking CHOICE, given the time and age they lived in.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:07 pm |
  12. Apple Bush

    I am going to call Toshi and Sushi Kanji and see what is fresh tonight.

    November 20, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • Akira

      Sounds good. Let me know, mmmkay?
      I'll see if the mechanic has gotten anywhere with the Lear yet.
      Maybe go to the BBBistro for an Akira?

      November 20, 2012 at 10:28 pm |
  13. Marghi

    What male nonsense!

    November 20, 2012 at 10:17 pm |
    • George

      God said in Leviticus to not let women speak in the church, are you denying his will?

      November 20, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • Agapatos

      Male Nonsense, eh? Perhaps you haven't taken into account ALL of scripture's motives.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:21 pm |
  14. Agapatos

    Finally some people who have the courage to interpret Holy Scripture literally! Truth is not always PC.

    November 20, 2012 at 10:17 pm |
    • End Religion

      Religion is control in the name of the opposite of courage.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:59 pm |
  15. Dave

    Wow, I thought the Church of England had moved past the Rennaissance. Obviously I was mistaken. Sad.

    November 20, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
    • Agapatos

      I happen to like the Middle Ages. They were WAY wiser back then.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
  16. George

    Religion has never favored women. Of course the bible does say not let women speak in church, Leviticus. God knows best I guess. Sorry ladies.

    November 20, 2012 at 10:15 pm |
    • Al Christian

      George - To what religion are you referring? Christianity - specifically the New Testament - mentions and honors a great many women. Islam, on the other hand, only mentions one woman in its holy book, the Koran, and that is Mary the mother of Jesus. You need to study more George.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
    • George

      Al, read Leviticus, it says it right there. How can you not trust the bible?

      November 20, 2012 at 10:23 pm |
    • Nigel Godard

      Nothing will happen if a woman preaches the love of God. We can disagree with Leviticus and God may respect us for growing up. I am a father, and I want my children to be better than me. I'm guessing God the father has nothing to fear from women priests or bishops.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:26 pm |
    • George

      So Leviticus is wrong then? (please say it please say...pretty please)

      November 20, 2012 at 10:27 pm |
    • Al Christian

      George - I've read Leviticus, and I've studied the rest of the Bible, several times. Leviticus is not what the Christian faith is about. St. Paul teaches us there are only four things we need to obey of the old rules. Jesus gave us a new rule - "Love one another as I have loved you." Study more.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:30 pm |
    • George

      So Jesus himself is saying that the first part of the bible is incorrect?

      November 20, 2012 at 10:32 pm |
    • Al Christian

      George - No. Jesus is not saying the first part of the Bible is incorrect. He said he is the fulfillment of the Old Testament.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
    • George

      So he's saying it was only true or the commands in them required until he came along?

      November 20, 2012 at 10:58 pm |
    • Gregory

      George, it is not in Leviticus. You should stop saying it is. Leviticus is one of the earliest books of the Old Testament. There are no rules for the Church in there, since the Church came over 1500 years later.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:59 pm |
    • George

      Dang it, you're right, it's Corinthians 14:34. Still.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
  17. Loathstheright

    Hey, women can believe in a magical invisible being in the sky also. God is a myth, doesn't exist, never will.

    November 20, 2012 at 10:14 pm |
    • Al Christian

      Loathstheright - If God is a myth and never existed, where did you come from? And where are you going when you die? (Or are you your own god and somewhat immortal?)

      November 20, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • George

      Al – if god exists then where did it come from? You need to study more, Al.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:26 pm |
    • jmt

      Ah, atheism............the new "religion" of the non-religious......

      November 20, 2012 at 10:30 pm |
    • Al Christian

      George - I have studied all my life - Math, science, philosophy and religion. But there are many things that are true which cannot be proven so (Cf. Goedel's incompleteness theorem.) And it is difficult conversing with people who start by closing their minds to another point of view before they have tried to understand. I dare say I could make your arguments more forcefully than you could make mine were I so convinced.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:34 pm |
    • George

      jmt- it's not a religion any more than not-believing in the tooth fairy is a religion.
      And 'not riding a bicycle' is not just another kind of bicycle. You people need to drop these old silly arguments that you keep spewing, they never make sense. They make you look more and more foolish everytime you say them. Like the new kid at school using the dog-ate-my-homework excuse.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:34 pm |
    • George

      Al – I did not start closed minded, I started in the church, confirmed, alter boy, the works. I have thought about it my whole life as well, and I'm not young.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:36 pm |
    • Al Christian

      George - Nor am I young at 75. I would sincerely encourage you to keep studying. If you are Protestant, try the Alpha program or the Tres Dias course. If you are Catholic, either the Alpha or the Curcio course. And keep an open mind. There is a lot of negativity among those who don't understand. Bishop Fulton Sheen once said regarding the Catholic Church, " There are 100 people who hate the Catholic Church and there are 100,000 who hate what they think the Catholic Church is."

      November 20, 2012 at 10:49 pm |
    • George

      I don't so much hate it as I think it is wrong in it's conclusions, assumptions and premice.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:00 pm |
    • End Religion

      Al, it doesn't matter how old you are. If you believe supernatural creatures inspired a book of rules for us to live by, you're delusional. If you believe in any of the absurdity that poses as the product of an intelligent creator, if you force your brain to dance the wild machinations required for religion to make sense, you do not share our reality and are deserving of ridicule and contempt. You should be ashamed of yourself.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
    • Al Christian

      End Religion - You obviously do not believe in "supernatural creatures" and I would assume must then only understand what you yourself can perceive. Regarding a "book of rules for us to live by" - Don't you agree that is a great way for people to get along with each other. Or do you object to common law? Do you pick and choose your own rules and laws? You should keep looking over your shoulder because the police may be coming for you if so. My religion makes sense because I live it 24/7 and it guides me in my relationships with others including my Christian brothers and sisters. And you make it clear that I do not share your reality, and I am very thankful for that. As for your "ridicule and contempt," I expect it. Why should I be ashamed for trying to live as Jesus taught? Do you really know what you are condemning?

      November 20, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
    • End Religion

      @al: "Regarding a "book of rules for us to live by" – Don't you agree that is a great way for people to get along with each other. "

      No, I do not believe a book of rules inspired by supernatural creatures is a great way to get along. Not only don't I believe it, you can look back on CNN's home page and maybe click on the Israel/Hamas war for an example of why it is a fallacy. Everyone has his own imaginary creature and believes his own set of unfounded imaginary rules, and thus, war.

      "Or do you object to common law?"

      Don't be absurd.

      "Do you pick and choose your own rules and laws?"

      Although we have an unwritten agreement to live under our secular laws, we do pick and choose the rules we live by, and suffer the consequences should we choose to ignore one. If your question is the larger "do we live in anarchy" then of course not.

      "My religion makes sense because I live it 24/7 and it guides me in my relationships with others including my Christian brothers and sisters."

      Illogical. Your religion does not makes sense simply because you live by it or use it as a measuring stick for your buddies. If I chose a religion that only allowed me to wear purple clothing, a top hat, and could only speak words that began with the letter "z", it would make no more sense just because I lived by it and let it guide my relationships. Zounds!

      Next, you do not live your religion 24/7 because:
      1) you're here judging me, which Jesus said is a no-no, and so you are not living your religion in this moment, and
      2) because you just lied about living your religion 24/7 you've now broken one of the 10 commandments

      Now that you've broken a commandment, I'm sure you understand that means you have defied your god's commands. You have denied his supremacy. Since you have denied god, and your god is supposedly the trinity of father, son, holy ghost, you have also denied the holy ghost.

      And Al, if you don't already know where we'd headed here I feel bad to be the one to tell you, but according to the book of rules you tout so highly you have just committed the one mortal sin that god does not forgive, denial of the holy ghost. Unfortunately you will be spending eternity in god's concentration camp next to beautiful Lake O' Fire in Hell. Please give Satan my regards.

      "Why should I be ashamed for trying to live as Jesus taught? Do you really know what you are condemning?"

      One should never be ashamed of trying to live a "good" life; to be a nice person, to treat others well, to show compassion and caring and forgiveness. I commend you for this.

      But you do not need religion for this. One is inherently naughty or nice, then environment enhances or changes it completely. Some lives are harder or easier than others. We all have to find our way through.

      What we don't need is a destructive, hateful and divisive fantasy be that path. As an elder, people look up to you for your valuable life experiences. To look them in the eye and lie to them that Santa will make things all better is shameful.

      November 21, 2012 at 2:40 am |
  18. Al Christian

    So many negative comments about Christianity. I wonder how many of these negative commenters have ever tried to learn what it is to live as a Christian. Or are they just mouthing the bigotry of other haters? "A little learning is a dangerous thing. Drink deep or taste not the Pierean spring. There shallow draughts do intoxicate the brain, whilst drinking largely sobers it again."

    November 20, 2012 at 10:13 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      "A little learning is a dangerous thing."

      That is too easy. LOL

      November 20, 2012 at 10:17 pm |
    • Al Christian

      Apple Bush - What is your point? I missed it.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:23 pm |
    • End Religion

      You missed the point because you're so wrapped up delusion you can no longer think straight.

      November 20, 2012 at 11:18 pm |
    • Al Christian

      End Religion - Please define "delusion."

      November 20, 2012 at 11:47 pm |
    • End Religion

      I heard a rumour you have an internet connection. Look it up yourself, nutcase.

      November 21, 2012 at 1:55 am |
  19. Apple Bush

    My thorns, now flies.

    Buzzing around my gruesome head and face.

    My wasted body……finally brought down. Breathe still in me, just a whisper.

    Nurtured and cleansed. Bandaged and cared for.

    Now I am risen to say my final farewell.

    Do not worship me.

    Do not mourn for me.

    Do not build churches for me or profit from me.

    I am a man, born of a woman from the seed of my father.

    I am as you are. A man and a human being.

    Learn from the sacrifices I have made. Learn from the hypocrisy.

    Bury me in good company. Remember me as a friend.

    November 20, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
    • Akira

      Wow, that's deep, Apple...

      November 20, 2012 at 10:17 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Boredom makes me wax poetic.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Akira

      You've got talent, my friend.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
  20. Nathan

    Sad, sad day for the pitiful Church of England.

    November 20, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.