Pat Robertson challenges creationism
Pat Robertson: "There was a time when these giant reptiles were on the Earth, and it was before the time of the Bible."
November 29th, 2012
04:04 PM ET

Pat Robertson challenges creationism

By Dan Merica, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='DanMericaCNN']

Washington (CNN) – Televangelist Pat Robertson challenged the idea that Earth is 6,000 years old this week, saying the man who many credit with conceiving the idea, former Archbishop of Ireland James Ussher, “wasn’t inspired by the Lord when he said that it all took 6,000 years.”

The statement was in response to a question Robertson fielded Tuesday from a viewer on his Christian Broadcasting Network show "The 700 Club.” In a submitted question, the viewer wrote that one of her biggest fears was that her children and husband would not go to heaven “because they question why the Bible could not explain the existence of dinosaurs.”

“You go back in time, you've got radiocarbon dating. You got all these things, and you've got the carcasses of dinosaurs frozen in time out in the Dakotas,” Robertson said. “They're out there. So, there was a time when these giant reptiles were on the Earth, and it was before the time of the Bible. So, don't try and cover it up and make like everything was 6,000 years. That's not the Bible.”

Before answering the question, Robertson acknowledged the statement was controversial by saying, “I know that people will probably try to lynch me when I say this.”

“If you fight science, you are going to lose your children, and I believe in telling them the way it was,” Robertson concluded.

Forty-six percent of Americans believe that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years, according to a survey released by Gallup in June. That number has remained unchanged for the past 30 years, since 1982, when Gallup first asked the question on creationism versus evolution.

The Gallup poll has not specifically asked about views on the age of the Earth.

Ussher’s work, from the mid-1600s, is widely cited by creationists as evidence that Earth is only a few thousand years old. Answer in Genesis, the famed Christian creationist ministry behind the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky, cites Ussher as proof of Earth’s age. They describe the archbishop as “a brilliant scholar who had very good reasons for his conclusions concerning the date of creation.”

For Christians who read the creation account in Genesis literally, the six days in the account are strictly 24-hour periods and leave no room for evolution. Young Earth creationists use this construct and biblical genealogies to determine the age of the Earth, and typically come up with 6,000 to 10,000 years.

Most scientists, however, agree that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and the universe is 14.5 billion years old.

The idea of creationism has been scorned by the mainstream scientific community since shortly after Charles Darwin introduced "The Origin of Species" in 1859. By 1880, The American Naturalists, a science journal, reported nearly every major university in America was teaching evolution.

The question about Earth’s age has been in the news recently. Earlier this month, Republican Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida attempted to walk the line between science and faith-based creationism in remarks that that provoked the ire of liberal blogs and left the door open to creationism.

“I'm not a scientist, man,” Rubio told GQ’s Micheal Hainey. “I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States.”

- CNN’s Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Christianity • Creationism • Evolution

soundoff (4,408 Responses)
  1. lol??

    I have discovered the chink in the Radiometric dating of the age of the earth. It was just a little oversight on the part of the scientists. They failed to take into account Absolute Zero and its affects upon isotopes. It got mighty cold at least twice. I have decided to name this phenomenon 1)Little iso age and 2)Big iso age. More data is expected to confirm this theory.

    November 30, 2012 at 10:34 pm |
  2. lionlylamb

    Any number of discourses concerning sub-textual conceptualism exists. Thus, the premise of deconstructive rationalism suggests that society, paradoxically, has intrinsic meaning. Lycanthropic obscurity properties propose that unobstructed reality is fundamentally a legal fiction. Thusly, I do concur that the premise of the cultural paradigm of expressionism holds that art is capable of social comment, but only if the cultural paradigm of the narrative is invalid; if that is not the case, Truth is used to reinforce the status quotient.

    November 30, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
    • joseph

      are you speaking in tongues? i know what lycanthropic mean. why don't you say it in layman word so the god believers can understand

      November 30, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Ben Rast

      I don't think you understand the words you're using. You repeatedly use "thus" as if you've made an assertion, supported it, and are then making a logical extension from said assertion. However, in your effort to use a thesaurus to sound more intelligent, you routinely fail to use words correctly and often fail to write actual sentences. If you want to impress strangers, its best to understand how the english language works first, then show off everything you learned in philosophy 101. The ability to convey your ideas is just as important as the ideas themselves in intelligent discourse

      November 30, 2012 at 10:34 pm |
    • joseph

      why is this page not moving?

      November 30, 2012 at 10:34 pm |
    • roland

      Agree. And radical deconstruction of the anthropic principle supports via subtextual realism the dialectic you are eschewing.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:52 pm |
    • lol??

      Per roland, "...dialectic...." Bingo. Double mindedness is valued in educratist circles. Of course they determine the boundaries of the debaters............"Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways."

      December 1, 2012 at 9:17 am |
  3. poopmeister

    Ok, I'm not a believer myself but I will try to merge two beliefs here. Why is it so hard to imagine that God created everything billions of years ago? Just because the Bible gives a different time period, doesn't mean that it is the full truth. We all here war stories of the good work being done by the US in foreign countries but then down the line truth starts to come out of hidden agendas and shady dealings and such. The Bible could be very similar. It was written by a bunch of guys that weren't in the "know", so the Bible could be a very loose depiction of history....more of a guess. Why do believers believe so blindly. Also, I am really annoyed with the posters that post scripture. Speak from your heart not the heart of a book you read. You might get better responses from the rest of us if you are a little challenging of your own faith. Us non-believers tend to be ever-evolving, which helps to keep up with the times.

    November 30, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      There is no reason that a Christian cannot maintain a belief in God and accept that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and evolution is God's method for creating life.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • Chad

      "Just because the Bible gives a different time period"

      actually, the bible doesnt give ANY time period... That is a very common misconception.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
    • joseph


      November 30, 2012 at 10:12 pm |
    • Chad

      I'll just wait for GOPer to refute Joseph, as GOPer is the one that hates a person not willing to apply critical thought to a question

      November 30, 2012 at 10:17 pm |
    • Russ

      @ meister: I agree with GOPer & Chad on this one.
      [again, I'm not the Russ whose been commenting on the last few pages]

      As I said earlier today on this blog, it's not "creationism" that's being rejected per se, but rather "young earth" creationism. it often feels like the media acts as though they are unaware that a substantial number of conservatives adhere to another form.

      in case you're interested in a brief overview from that perspective, here's Tim Keller on this exact topic...

      November 30, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • John A

      Believing in the Bible is a moral issue and relationships, versus a historical, geographic, scientific or any academia subjects.

      December 1, 2012 at 12:49 pm |
  4. Russ

    Funny... when I post a reply it doesn't show... so, I try to post it again and it says that there is a duplicate...lol

    November 30, 2012 at 9:40 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Then it is certainly the filter. I have seen that before. Do you need the list of naughty words?

      November 30, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @GOP, I don't know if he does but I do. I couldn't post something yesterday and ended up giving up and breaking it into pieces to cram it through. There was nothing in it I could see.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
    • joseph

      whats going its not moving

      November 30, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • Russ

      @ other Russ: i certainly don't have a copyright on my name, but it could be confusing considering I have had a running conversation with many of the folks I see you interacting with here. Merely for that point of clarification for any who care to know... especially since I (as a fellow Christian) disagree with you on a few of your points (six 24 hr days, for example).

      November 30, 2012 at 10:14 pm |
    • Helpful Hints

      (and anybody else who's interested)

      You can see the "Helpful Hints" list on page #42.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • poopmeister

      Russ, I wasn't exactly replying in regards to this article...just more of a thought that I had in the past. It makes no sense to me why it needs to boil down to a young Earth or, what it is, a very old Earth. It seems that for every discovery science has, creationist have to come up with an answer, instead of melding the 2 beliefs into 1. Seems counter productive to me.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:32 pm |
    • End Religion

      The words/snippets that seem to be embedded in other words the most for me are:
      • tit
      • sex
      • cum
      • spic
      • vag

      December 1, 2012 at 2:21 am |
    • LinCA


      On the Belief Blog, repeat posts, even those that were previously censored and not displayed, will show a message stating that you posted it before.

      The following words or word fragments will get your post censored (list is incomplete):
            arse             as in Arsenal
            cock           as in cockatiel
            coon           as in cocoon
            cum             as in circumstance
            homo         as in homosexual
            poon           as in spooked
            rape         as in grape
            sex           as in homosexual
            spic         as in despicable
            tit               as in constitution or title
            vag           as in vague
            wonderful us

      To circumvent the filters you can break up the words by putting an extra character in, like: consti.tution (breaking the oh so naughty "tit").

      December 1, 2012 at 2:32 am |
  5. Russ

    I can't reply to my own posts now...lol

    November 30, 2012 at 9:32 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      That's happened to me once before I made my wordpress account. Don't know what causes it or if it's just website script error.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      I'd wager it's the iniquitous WordPress filter, in the drawing room, with a candelabra.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:34 pm |
    • joseph


      November 30, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
    • Dippy

      Joseph, turn off your fucking caps lock.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • joseph



      November 30, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
  6. Russ

    Guess our posts on the previous page got too long and it shut us down?

    November 30, 2012 at 9:24 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Never seen that before.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • joseph


      November 30, 2012 at 9:30 pm |
    • mama k

      Did you lose some posts?

      November 30, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
  7. Brent

    If science can be proven, then prove that God exists! You know that is impossible, and you want me to believe that it is true. So let me ask you this , If you truly believe that God exists, why are you not jumping off cliffs and tall buildings without parachutes. Your God should come to your side and save your ass. He should be able to do it. He has made the earth and the heavens in 6 days, talked through a burning bush, was able to flood the earth with water till no land was visible for 40 days and 40 nights... I really want to know how he made all that water disappear . Maybe he put it on Mars... just covered up with dirt so know one would know. Please answer some of these questions.. and I want verifiable proof too. Not some stupid excuse either.

    November 30, 2012 at 9:22 pm |
    • Damocles

      Yeah, ok, it's not often I do this, but in defense of believers, even if I had it in my mind that I was going to a heaven when I die, that does not mean I would be in a rush to get there.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • joseph


      November 30, 2012 at 9:30 pm |
    • Bob

      Luk 4:1 ¶ And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

      Luk 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

      Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

      Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

      Luk 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

      Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

      Luk 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

      Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

      Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

      Luk 4:10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

      Luk 4:11 And in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

      Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

      Luk 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

      Luk 4:14 ¶ And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

      Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

      Luk 4:16 ¶ And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

      Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

      Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

      Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

      Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

      Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

      Luk 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

      Luk 4:23 And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

      Luk 4:24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

      Luk 4:25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

      Luk 4:26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, [a city] of Sidon, unto a woman [that was] a widow.

      Luk 4:27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

      Luk 4:28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

      Luk 4:29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.

      Luk 4:30 But he passing through the midst of them went his way,

      Luk 4:31 ¶ And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.

      Luk 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

      Luk 4:33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,

      Luk 4:34 Saying, Let [us] alone; what have we to do with thee, [thou] Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.

      Luk 4:35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.

      Luk 4:36 And they were all amazed, and spake among themselves, saying, What a word [is] this! for with authority and power he commandeth the unclean spirits, and they come out.

      Luk 4:37 And the fame of him went out into every place of the country round about.

      Luk 4:38 ¶ And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.

      Luk 4:39 And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.

      Luk 4:40 ¶ Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.

      Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

      Luk 4:42 ¶ And when it was day, he departed and went into a desert place: and the people sought him, and came unto him, and stayed him, that he should not depart from them.

      Luk 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

      Luk 4:44 And he preached in the synagogues of Galilee.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • Bob

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:53 pm |
    • Bob

      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
      For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
      He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
      And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
      For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
      But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV


      Luk if you've ever been a lady to begin with
      Luk be a lady tonight.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
  8. Pedro

    I don't waste my time with foolish people who believe in fairy tales and myths.

    November 30, 2012 at 8:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How do you stand yourself, then?

      November 30, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • Damocles

      Good. Tell yourself you have had quite enough of your stupidity, I know everyone else has.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
    • joseph

      really pedro ? who do you believe?

      November 30, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
    • joseph

      right pedro i remember your name was taken from the bible thats why you are a fairy tale too. who ever gave you that name is a fool that believes in fairy tale. so both of you are booth fools and both fairy tale.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
    • Russ

      Pedro...Do you believe in Newton's laws of motion?

      November 30, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
    • joseph

      @ russ

      how can pedro believe in newton. its a fact. PEDRO BELIEVES IN FAIRY TALE.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
    • Russ

      Newton was a devout Christian and even wrote a set of commentaries on the Bible.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
  9. lol??

    The stars you see are an illusion, like much of science, err according to scientific theories. That's a gotcha.

    November 30, 2012 at 8:08 pm |

    • Born drunk, were ya?

      November 30, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • Roger that

      The light from the North Star started it's journey to Earth around the time that Columbus started his genocide tour of the Americas.

      November 30, 2012 at 8:57 pm |
    • Dippy

      Its, not it's.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:03 pm |
    • lol??

      Roger, that should be a lesson for today. Don't corner people who think they are Jews.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:19 pm |
    • Roger that


      The auto spell correction on my phone changed the word, and I failed to notice. It won't happen again.

      December 1, 2012 at 3:27 am |

  10. "The 700 Club needs to reign in Pat Robertson before he goes completely sane."

    November 30, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
  11. Theo

    I Love when people say they love jesus, or they have personal relationship with jesus

    How is this possible he is dead did you ever know the real person ? do you know what his favorite food was ? for this love relationship did you ever do anything together like go roller blading ?

    The answer is no, you can no more love or have a relationship with jesus as you could with Abraham Lincoln

    November 30, 2012 at 7:50 pm |
    • niknak

      Yet these same people who claim that, and also claim they follow jeebus' unconditional love, are the same ones who are armed to teeth, walk into abortion clinics and shoot random people, and hate anyone who is different them them.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:53 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      You must fear the God who loves you.
      You must love the God you fear.
      The God who loves you will punish you for eternity if you turn away from him.

      Lot of metaphysical Stockhom Syndrome going on there.

      November 30, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • Chad

      @GOPer "You must fear the God who loves you. You must love the God you fear. The God who loves you will punish you for eternity if you turn away from him"

      =>ok, so if you are trying to sound like an atheist that never took the time to investigate the claims of Christianity, you're good.
      however, if you are trying to relate actual Christian theology, you're way off.
      1. There is no "must", we have a choice. In fact, "you must love" is a self contradictory statement..
      2. You are misusing the word "fear",
      God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4
      3. If you choose to live apart from God, God will respect that choice.

      November 30, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV


      you're on a sticky wicket with this one:

      "3. If you choose to live apart from God, God will respect that choice."

      What, by punishment in the eternal lake of fire? Respect like that, I don't need!

      November 30, 2012 at 8:58 pm |
    • Chad

      @GOPer "What, by punishment in the eternal lake of fire? Respect like that, I don't need!"

      =>you act as if you have a choice to participate, or not participate in Gods reality...

      November 30, 2012 at 9:03 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      And you have no evidence for the so called "gods reality". Now go ahead and paste the 5 point idiocy that has been refuted multiple times already.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:05 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV


      "God's Reality"

      thanks for the laugh. It really did make me laugh.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, What happens on judgement day to those who do not choose god, and isn't that supposed to be the fear-inducing part?

      November 30, 2012 at 9:12 pm |
    • joseph

      maybe abraham lincoln was better because at there is a proof that lincoln exist.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
    • mama k

      Does God have a reality show now? OK never mind, I've got a TV Guide link on here somewhere . . .

      November 30, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
  12. Pedro

    I will never believe in the fantasy and myth that a frog can turn into a prince. Scientific data tells us that life is complex and cannot be a product of blind chance. Your house or a factory didn't just appear from non-living matter. All machines are created. Our living earth and human life was created with a purpose. I don't care if an atheist thinks I'm unintelligent for believing in intelligent design. Darwinian evolution is a myth

    November 30, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV


      evolution is not a myth. It is a theory, backed up by evidence.

      There is no reason why a Christian cannot believe that God used evolution as his method for creating life.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Pedro, stop posing. You're not believable.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:51 pm |
    • mama k

      Hmm which is the real myth here:

      1. Ancient writings based on more ancient folklore and mythology; OR
      2. Scientific evidence.

      Hmm – I wonder which one is more likely to be myth . . . let me think. Oh it's too hard – I'll let the reader decide. lol.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • sqeptiq

      Well pedro, why didn't you just cut to the chase and say outright that no amount of evidence or facts will persuade you to believe reality? That's actually a psychiatric disorder.

      November 30, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      You claim we came from a god because we are complex and something of higher complexity had to create us. Since you god is more complex what created your god?

      November 30, 2012 at 8:35 pm |
    • Pedro

      The evidence shows us that natural selection does not create new species. Mutations do not create new species. Darwin's philosophy led to people like Hitler believing that one race is superior to other 's@v@ge' races. Hitler was also involved with the Catholic Church (he was never excommunicated) Stalin was an atheist. The fact is the new atheist are not going to make the world a better place. It is a cult with Richard Dawkins as its leader, and from most of the arguments on here it seems that most of you are being brain washed by him and atheistic scientist. Scientific evidence supports the fact of intelligent design.

      November 30, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      I'm still calling poe on Pedro. The amount of misinformation, and pure idiocy is just too much to be real.

      November 30, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • Pedro

      Ok, typical atheist who says your 'stupid' or 'crazy' for believing in intelligent design. Come up with something new

      November 30, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      Actually, I'm saying I think it's more likely you're an atheist posting satire. So I'm calling you a liar.

      November 30, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Ding ding. Pedro makes two of my top thirteen most irritating stupid arguments that religionists make here – numbers one and eight:

      1. Equating atheism with religious zealotry
      eg: “Atheism is a religion” – Ummm, no, really, it’s not!
      Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby,
      Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color,
      Atheism is a religion like off is a television channel
      Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex act
      Atheism is a religion like health is a disease
      Atheism has no sacred text, no orthodoxy, no rites or rituals, no houses of worship … it is not a religion or a faith. It is the absence of faith in God.

      Pedro's corollary: atheism is a cult. Ummm, no, it's not.

      8. Absurd attempts to conflate atheism with despotic dictators
      eg: ”Atheists have tortured and murdered more people in the last 100 years than were killed in all previous centuries” or slightly less inaccurately: “Atheists killed more than 100,000,000 people in the 20th century”
      The syllogism:
      – Communist despots ordered or failed to prevent the deaths of millions in the 20th century
      – Not believing in God is a tenet of communism
      – Therefore, atheists killed millions in the 20th century
      deliberately misrepresents atheism. It’s a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

      November 30, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
    • Chad

      Actually, Pedro is 100% right. Darwinian evolution (phyletic gradualism) IS a myth.

      Common ancestry is real, but Darwinian evolution (phyletic gradualism) IS a myth, there is absolutely no way to reconcile stasis and rapid change with purely random genetic mutation and natural selection

      November 30, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      And since when has phyletic gradualism been the sole basis of evolution? Since when has "Darwinian evolution" been solely based on that either? You have absolutely no honesty Chad. Rate of speciation is completely irrelevant to the fact that evolution occurs.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:14 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV


      you can't see me but I'm laughing here.

      You really wonder why people call you disingenuous?

      Your post here is a classic example. Yes, what you have written is an accurate representation of your beliefs – except for the statement:

      "Pedro is 100% right."

      Parsing the essence of @Pedo's comments with an understanding of the distinctions you make regarding gradualism, you DO NOT believe the same things that Pedro believes.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:15 pm |
    • Chad

      @Pedro "I will never believe in the fantasy and myth that a frog can turn into a prince."
      @Chad "true, it cant, without Gods intervention"

      @Pedro "Scientific data tells us that life is complex and cannot be a product of blind chance"
      @Chad "obviously true"

      @Pedro "Your house or a factory didn't just appear from non-living matter"
      @Chad "true"

      @Pedro " All machines are created.
      @Chad "true.."

      @Pedro "Our living earth and human life was created with a purpose"
      @Chad "true"

      @Pedro " I don't care if an atheist thinks I'm unintelligent for believing in intelligent design. Darwinian evolution is a myth"
      @Chad "Darwinian evolution has been completely refuted, phyletic gradualism is dead, put to death by the fossil record"

      The only thing that remains is the definition of "intelligent design".
      I dont believe that herds of deer just materialized out of thin air, perhaps Pedro does. In the end the distinction between God creating deer in a microseconds, or creating deer over the course of millions of years is fairly irrelevant. In either case the God of Israel is real and nothing gets done with out Him.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:34 pm |
    • Skillful example of sock puppetry

      Do it again Chad.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV


      you don't believe in what is conventionally meant by the term "intelligent design".

      You and I both know that.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
    • joseph


      November 30, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Poor little Chad can't answer points against his complete Straw Man arguments against evolutionary theory.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • Chad

      I find nothing in here that I disagree with, and I dont know that I disagree with anything that William Dembski has ever said ( that I have heard, and I've heard quite a bit)

      Intelligent design (ID) is a form of creationism promulgated by the Discovery Insti.tute, a politically conservative think tank. The Inst.itute defines it as the proposition that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."[1][2] It is a contemporary adaptation of the traditional teleological argument for the existence of God, presented by its advocates as "an evidence-based scientific theory about life's origins" rather than "a religious-based idea".[3] The leading proponents of intelligent design are a.ssociated with the Discovery Inst.itute [n 1][4] and believe the designer to be the Christian deity.[n 2]
      Intelligent design seeks to redefine science in a fundamental way that would invoke supernatural explanations, an approach its proponents describe as theistic realism or theistic science. It puts forward a number of arguments in support of the existence of a designer, the most prominent of which are irreducible complexity and specified complexity.[5] The scientific community rejects the extension of science to include supernatural explanations in favor of continued acceptance of methodological naturalism,[n 3][n 4][6][7] and has rejected both irreducible complexity and specified complexity for a wide range of conceptual and factual flaws.[8][9][10][11] Intelligent design is seen as a pseudoscience in the scientific community, because it lacks empirical support, supplies no tentative hypotheses, and resolves to describe natural history in terms of scientifically untestable supernatural causes.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:49 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      What utter bullshit.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:53 pm |
    • Chad is doing a Pat Robertson

      Chad " In the end the distinction between God creating deer in a microseconds, or creating deer over the course of millions of years is fairly irrelevant. In either case the God of Israel is real"

      Oh my goodness, Chad is making a strategic retreat

      November 30, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • Chad

      "strategic retreat"?

      I have been a theistic evolutionist nearly as long as I have been a Christian..

      November 30, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
    • mama k

      I wonder what Chad thinks of this? It was posted on page 38/41 – I forget which, but where "Tyler" replied to "Blue"?

      "Mitochondiral Eve. Proof that we have been here for more than the 5,000 years you are thinking.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve "

      November 30, 2012 at 10:23 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      My life is in disarray since Chad exposed the rotted underpinnings of molecular biology and evolutionary dynamics. No one to turn to but the God of Israel. Damn you, Chad.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
    • Chad

      @mama k "I wonder what Chad thinks of this? It was posted on page 38/41 – I forget which, but where "Tyler" replied to "Blue"?"

      =>what makes you think that I would have any problem with this?

      November 30, 2012 at 10:26 pm |
    • mama k

      That 200,000 years ago (M. Eve) sure is a lot further back than 10,000 years ago.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:28 pm |
    • mama k

      Well maybe you don't if you truly are an evolutionist.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:28 pm |
    • Chad

      1. I am definitely NOT an evolutionist
      2. I AM a theistic evolutionist

      A. you dont know the difference, and
      B. didnt know that I am a theistic evolutionist
      demonstrates several things, first and foremost that you dont bother to read posts before responding..

      November 30, 2012 at 10:31 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV


      Chad is not a young earth creationist. He does believe in the common ancestry aspect of evolution. He does accept that the earth is billions of years old. He does not accept abiogenesis.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:32 pm |
    • mama k

      Fair enough. Theistic evolutionist. Where does M. Eve fit in with the Bible set of characters?

      November 30, 2012 at 10:39 pm |
  13. skeptic

    Why does belief in science have to mean a rejection of faith? Our understanding of the cosmos has evolved, so must our understanding and interpretation of scripture evolve. Dogma is dangerous-it was responsible for the excommunication of Galileo and Copernicus who dared to assert that the Earth is not the center of the solar system. We do agree with them now, don"t we? Fundementalists scare me. Their faith trumps any scientific evidence that can be presented to them.

    November 30, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV


      November 30, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So how do reconcile faith with reason?

      Do you pick and choose what parts of the Bible you accept?

      November 30, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • Theo

      Because a real Science person would not think animals can talk, wearing robes means something, lighting candles does magic, a god in the sky listens to peoples praying, that magical rituals can affect something, and that we decend from inbreeding ( adam and eve's kids scr3wed each other )

      A scientist who believes in such things would be a quak .

      November 30, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "Why does belief in science have to mean a rejection of faith?"

      Because "faith" is pretending to know something you don't know.


      November 30, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • DN3

      Exactly. The theory of evolution does not conflict with the teachings of the Bible as long as the teachings are correctly interpreted.

      December 1, 2012 at 5:43 pm |
  14. PonyBOy

    The world is older then 6000 years i can prove it my grandma is 7065

    November 30, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
    • joseph



      November 30, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
  15. donner

    Seriously?? True believers know the earth is 375 years old.

    November 30, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • Saraswati

      3.2 years. Satan planted the memories in your head to trick you.

      Just try and prove it's not so.

      November 30, 2012 at 10:02 pm |
  16. Russ

    You have to realize that the chapter numbers and verse numbers were added in the 4th century... Also you have to realize that early eastern writings were not always sequential in their style... often they would present a topic and then repeat it in order of importance rather than order.

    November 30, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I don't "have to" do any such thing. If your book of fairy tales is written in such a way that it requires enormous leaps of faith, suspension of disbelief, and tolerance of disorganization and chaos, I don't care to "have" anything to do with it.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
  17. RationalistArgument

    So, if Tim Keller stopped deluding himself with his logical fallacies, and stopped convincing others that he actually makes sense (he seems to have convinced you), then the world would already be a better place...And this is just ONE argument I picked out of the whole video that was full of illogical argumentation....

    November 30, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
  18. kindness

    This is my experience... Thank you.

    MY personal testimony.
    A thought to consider without an ego response

    I Accepted Jesus christ as my lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
    The world denounces truth....

    Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.

    Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.

    The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.

    Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners. Even once we are saved by christs merciful grace we will still experience adversity to mold us to adhering to the truth.
    We will slip... But not fall of the ship ...carrying us onward to perfection in christs grace.

    We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Follow me".
    It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .

    Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
    See the truth...
    do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from some other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..

    Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .

    Trancsend the temporal world.

    Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .

    Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing (to change) The Holy spirit (within) will convict you beyond what you think you can do by yourself. Grace is given to those who renounce the world. That are" in" the world but not "of " the world.

    Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith ....above reason in Jesus Christ.

    Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....

    Read Ecclesiastes. Read romans or corinthians.

    You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.

    Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are by faith above reason in christ.

    I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .

    Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?

    Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.

    once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
    You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it

    You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
    I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
    Its awsome and It's just between you and Jesus

    my testimony

    Romans 10:9

    "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

    Last eve I passed beside a blacksmith’s door,
    And heard the anvil ring the vesper chime;
    The, looking in, I saw upon the floor
    Old hammers, worn with beating years of time.
    “How many anvils have you had,” said I,
    “To wear and batter all these hammers so?”
    “Just one,” said he, and then with twinkling eye,
    “The anvil wears the hammers out, you know.”
    And so, thought I, the anvil of God’s Word,
    For ages skeptic blows have beat upon;
    Yet, though the noise of falling blows was heard,
    The anvil is unharmed – the hammers gone.

    Truth is..exclusive

    November 30, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • sybaris

      "Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you."

      Sorry kindness, the bias of the mind is to seek what it wants to confirm. It is your Reticular Activating System at work. It's simply a group of nerves in our brains who's job it is to filter information. Once something becomes of interest to us the brain becomes hyper-aware and will see patterns regardless of how remote the association. For instance, your new boyfriend or girlfriend has red hair but you never noticed redheads before until you fell in love with one. Now you see them everywhere. Christians feel like they see/feel their god everywhere because their brains have been trained to interpret and notice certain things as being from their god but it's nothing supernatural, nothing divine, nothing "touched" you. You've been reprogrammed, brainwashed if you will.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • Akira

      How does one describe a color, anyway?
      Pretend I'm blind.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • sqeptiq

      To make a long story short: CRAZY AS A BETSY BUG.

      November 30, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
  19. Kyle

    Atheist are immoral f@gs

    November 30, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • Kyle


      November 30, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Can you cite any source that shows that atheists are immoral? That they commit more crimes than believers?

      Do so, or you're a liar.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • sam

      That's so cute! A troll that corrects its own spelling! Aw. I just wanna pinch your litte cheeks and kick you down the stairs.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • End Religion

      Kyle, I will give you one guess at a reason religion is dying. Think hard now. Reread your post. Come back next week and let me know your answer.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • John M.

      To quote Ricky Gervais:

      "...nearly 75 percent of Americans are God-­‐fearing Christians; 75 percent of prisoners are God-­‐fearing Christians. 10 percent of Americans are atheists; 0.2 percent of prisoners are atheists."

      November 30, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • Akira

      How very tolerant and non-judgemental of you, Kyle; you do religion proud.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
    • Joey K.

      How kind of you to say. And it is atheist, you had the original spelling correct.

      November 30, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
    • Dippy

      Atheists is correct.

      November 30, 2012 at 9:49 pm |
  20. God is Great!

    All politics aside... I've read the Bible quite a bit, but can't recall scriptures stating the Earth is 6,000 years old anywhere. You'll have to show me! And "6 Days" can easily be understood as "6 Stages" (or epochs of creation) to anyone with an enquiring mind. That being said, evolution does make a lot of sense in many ways. Distinct features, traits, or men being different colors is a good example of evolution – but they are still ALL men. I don't believe that one species can evolve to become another totally different species! Has anything like that ever been proven? I also can't agree with the "Classic Timeline" by science that says man is a relative latecomer and has only been here a small fraction ot the time that dinosaurs have. We are certainly much more evolved than brutish dinosaurs which would naturally indicate that we've been much longer evolving (perhaps on other worlds?) or that something like an outside (alien) DNA was purposely introduced into a lower species on this planet – speeding up (or altering) any natural course that evolution may take. Similar to many things our current crop of scientists are constantly experimenting with...

    November 30, 2012 at 6:48 pm |
    • ChrisC

      It's not a single person, monkey, etc. changed into a different species. Rather, it's descent from a common ancestor (the scientific phrase in use currently is "descent with modification" meaning they share similar underlying foundation, but when they migrate (those that survive) they evolve based on environmental triggers (challenges), which give rise to mutations; that make future generations better suited to live in the new environment. Those generations after the original tend to take on these new features. That was tortured and way too simple an explanation, but it's far too long a story.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:05 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Tigers and lions and jaguars and leopards etc are all different species.

      Is is so hard to imagine that they all evolved from a common ancestor over millions of years?

      Humans are no different.

      November 30, 2012 at 7:32 pm |
    • lol??

      Dinosaurs take a lot of abuse. Did it make them stronger?

      December 1, 2012 at 8:54 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.