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December 11th, 2012
01:13 AM ET
'Choose Life' license plates ruled unconstitutional in North CarolinaBy Joe Sutton, CNN (CNN) - A federal judge ruled that North Carolina's new "Choose Life" license plates are unconstitutional because the state does not offer a pro-choice alternative. "The State's offering a Choose Life license plate in the absence of a pro-choice alternative constitutes viewpoint discrimination in violation of the First Amendment," U.S. District Court Judge James Fox wrote in the ruling Friday. The ruling was praised by the American Civil Liberties Union, which had filed a lawsuit in 2011 to stop the specialty plates. "This is a great victory for the free speech rights of all North Carolinians, regardless of their point of view on reproductive freedom," said Chris Brook of the ACLU. "The government cannot create an avenue of expression for one side of a contentious political issue while denying an equal opportunity to citizens with the opposite view." Republican state Rep. Mitch Gillespie, who sponsored the bill for the "Choose Life" plates, said he would push for an appeal of the judge's decision, CNN affiliate WRAL reported. The bill for the license plates passed in 2011, and the legislation also mandated that money raised from the sale of the specialty plates would go to a nonprofit that supports crisis pregnancy centers, WRAL reported. During the fight to get the bill passed, North Carolina lawmakers voted down amendments that would have created pro-choice alternatives such as "Trust Women. Respect Choice," the affiliate reported. The "Choose Life" plates are available in 29 states, according to Choose Life Inc., a nonprofit that helps states that want to sell these specialty plates. soundoff (3,213 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Or contribute to paying medical insurance premiums to keep the unwanted, and/or unaffordable, children healthy as they grow up.
Mankind – first to say there are too many wolves, too many coyotes, too many wild horses, too many bison, too many everything else...
Yet, mankind to arrogantly ignorant to realize there are way, way, way too many humans on this planet.
Abortion is good, we need less humans on this planet!
a thinning of the herd would be nice and since im a dooms day prepper ill obvi survive
THANK YOU!!! Finally a person with a clear vision.
Then you and all your followers go drink poison and leave the babies alone.
A**H***: Better yet, the pious can drink the poison so they can take their place kneeling in front of Jeebus. What is the holdup? You can be doing the Lewinsky thing on the savior in a fortnight
@ atheist hunter...somewhere father down this thread, a poster made mention of "Talibangelicals." Based on your trollish comments on this board, I don't think that poster could've described you and your beliefs any better.
Since the anti-choice group believes the fetus has a soul at the point of conception?
Heaven? If so what is the problem? It’s a guaranteed ticket to heaven and those are hard to come by.
Hell? Because they are not Christian and not babtised?
Where does the soul go
Yeah, that's been my question dozens of times. No one has yet answered it.
Only God knows who gets in or not. Hypothetically speaking, assuming everyone gets in, would you be ok with someone else making the decision for when you need to go?
@jcd1992, If god condemns the souls of every zygote and embryo that doesn't make it then that god is an ass, because most of them don't make it. Any decent god would either give them a good non-earth life or another shot at earth. No matter how you cut it, if you belief in this "sould at conception" business, either god can handle things if there is no birth, he's incompetent, or he's a jerk.
If a zygote is "infused" with a soul at the instant of conception – what happens with monozygotic twins? The blastocyte splits into 2 separate zygotes after numerous cell divisions. Which twin gets the soul? Does each twin get half a soul? Is there a pool of emergency back up souls "on-call" for these situations? And what happens when one twin absorbs the other twin in utero? Does the remaining twin have 2 souls? Does one soul get sent back to the emergency backup pool?
And what about Cephalopagus twins? One head with 2 separate faces and conjoined brains, conjoined torso, but separate lower bodies. Do they share a soul?
So I had a thought..If you are pro-life...So what if the State dosen't allow the license plates? Lets just put on our own bumper stickers and donate the money we save by not paying the vanity fee to the State, Where we have little to no say about how it's spent, to the pro-life group of our choice.
A very good idea. All other groups should do the same. Licesnse plates whould hold a number and enough other info to be recognized for the sate of origin.
When does life begin? Do scientists really know? Keep in mind scientist will say "x" is bad for you and then years later a new study will be published that contradicts these findings stating the "x" is now good for you. How many time have we seen this? What if scientist are wrong about when life begins? More importantly, if you believe in God, how can one assume that a scientist's concept of life equals God's? Does one really want to potentially risk the external fate of their soul because it's more convenient to end a pregnancy?
scientist's concept of life equals God's?
---
Can you know God's concept of life?
you're argument is, "just in case the boogey man is real, better do what he says."
Let's hope, when you go to heaven, you are given the task of having lots of really interesting life experience and eternity long conversations with the trillions of souls of the fertilized eggs that failed to attach naturally to the womb, or naturally miscarried at some some later time before birth.
@jcd1992
" Does one really want to potentially risk the external fate of their soul because it's more convenient to end a pregnancy? "
Right... 'cause no "true christian" has had an abortion.
Peace...
Apparently, God has no problem with abortions. After all, He performs far more abortions in the form of miscarriages than all the elective abortions combined. And, if the unborn fetus goes to Heaven when aborted, I just don't see the problem, here.
Bootyfunk, I am sorry you equate God with something that is evil or scary. I follow God out of Love and Respect not fear.
Tony, If I make it to Heaven I would be happy to talk to anyone who is there.
therealpeace2all, Our course Christians have had abortions. What happens to these people in the after life is up to God. Seek forgiveness and see what happens.
Richard,
Using your logic would the following also be true?
Apparently, God has no problem with death. After all, far more people die of natural death than murder. And, if murdered people go to Heaven when killed, then I just don't see the problem, here.
Madtown, when you meet Jesus you can ask him what his concept of life is and then you will know it.
jcd1992
Madtown, when you meet Jesus
---–
I certainly will. You implied you "know" God's concept of life. I'm just curious how you know this?
Here is my opinion. When God stops miscarriages then I'lll stop abortions. So far in my family he up 2 to 0. Until then I think giving people the right to choose is as fair as God's right to make decisions too.
@A-Rod
^Like^
Peace...
That is the most ridiculous comparison. I might as well say, "When people in my family stop dying from accidents, then I will stop murdering."
God did not cause any miscarriages. Miscarriages and other med. problems are a result of the fall of man.
@MK – no, I truly respect that all life is sacred. When God starts explaining why he allowed two miscarriages then people will explain to him why they got abortions. Until then... He has the explaining to do, not me.
And if these miscarried fetues had "souls" god obviously was able to handle the situation. In th much smaller number of cases where humans make the decision he what, is suddenly incompetent on the matter?
@ just me, Right?!?!?! So Down's syndrome is Eve's fault. So being born with a heart defect is Adam's fault? I cannot believe in a god that punishes people for they way they were born, the way he created them.
@sarswati, Thank you for that point.
@ just me. The downfall of man? By your own goD's hand did man fall. He made us in his image, imperfeclty it seems. If he was so omipotent and omniscient, he would have foreseen that all he did was fukked up from the get-go. Wow, a goD who is a fukk-up. Your goD. hahahahaha. Jeebus chrisst, that's phunny. No wonder he scacrificed himself on a cross.
So just give the opposing view a License plate that says "Choose Human Sacrifice". Lilith needs her babies too.
All they need is to make a "Choose Death" plate, then everybody will be happy.
How about just "Respect Choice." You only need one plate then, yes?
That's one UGLY plate.
Just further proof atheists are wrong!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9736619/Noahs-Ark-Great-Flood-may-have-happened-says-Robert-Ballard.html
That's not new news. The story must have come from some where, and there's been plenty of geological evidence of a very large, localized (not global), flood. It also does not add any credence to your fantasy of an anthropomorphic god.
you're quoting the Telegraph?! what next, you'll think there is a batboy b/c you'll be quoting the Weekely World News......
Evidence of a flood is not proof of God.
Nobody has EVER said a flood may not have happened; it's the ark part that is in doubt.
Get real.
WOW you are a moron. Can you read?
Read the article again smart guy. The flood it is talking about was isolated to the Black Sea, not the whole earth.
This is why I don't trust Christians running things. Learn to read and think then come back to us with your ideas on how things should be run.
I believe man can build a big ass boat. But I'm not blind enough or brainwashed enough to believe in something I cannot physically see or touch. Keep proving me wrong, you're doing awesome~~~~
To quote Mr. Ballard in the article, " a lot of real estate, 150,000 square kilometers of land, went under."
I'm sorry, but are you really this fucking stupid? You god specifically stated he flood the ENTIRE earth. The land surface of the earth is over 10 times what this claim is.
So was your god wrong? Or was he lying?
So wait a minute... "does not offer a pro-choice alternative" does not make sense here. The license plate has the word "choose" right on it. What is the "alternative" to a choice? Not having a choice?
If the license plate is advocating one specific choice among two, then it seems to me that the "alternative" would be advocacy of the other choice... say, "choose death". The twisted logic of abortion advocates is truly stunning sometimes.
It should read "choose to give citizenship" to the future children of all pregnant females visiting or assing through the USA at any time during their pregnancy.
How about PRO CHOICE as an alternative? What a waste of time.
I see arguments for both sides. Unfortunately, your argument is senseless...you will not make people think pro-choice with your lack of logic.
It's amusing that after you spent an entire paragraph twisting logic, you then accuse pro-choice advocates of twisting logic.
i love how the opposition believes that if you're pro-choice, you're somehow automatically pro-abortion. you can't seriously all be that dense, can you?
It's the slippery semantics.
Your bias is evident by using the term "abortion advocates", as if there is a group of people actively encouraging women to get abortions.
If the opposte of Pro-Life is Pro-Death, then the opposite of Pro-Choice is Pro-Oppression.
You're purposefully misconstruing the issue in the hopes of bolstering your own views and discrediting opposing views. You know there are two views on the subject – quit acting coy.
It says choose and then gives something to choose. Its not something that is saying to choose between two things, it is saying choose this. Logically it is equivalent to vote yes, so the issue is that the equivalent to vote no is not an option as of right now.
Once again writing your own view of history so you can disregard and ignore people that do not agree with you. The "Choose Life" message is obviously a religiously inspired anti-choice message. That the news media has allowed these reproductive radicals to incorrectly label themselves as pro-life does not negate the fact that their real message is that we want to force our religious beliefs on others and then let them suffer the consequences. There is little about the "pro-life" movement that is actual positive about creating a good and productive life. To be honest the groups should be labeled Anti-Choice and Pro-Choice. Anti-Choice wants to take the decision away from the woman and offer only one solution; while Pro-Choice let's the woman decide and actually gives the woman multiple choices, including giving birth. Pro-Choice seems much more American to me!
WOW another 'Smart Guy'
I bet when you see an ad that says Choose Coke you think that counts as an ad for Pepsi as well.
Go peddle your crap elsewhere.
How did you come to that logic? The court is saying that it is discriminatory and violates the First Amendment to offer 1 plate but not the other. This situation also goes vice versa. If it was a "Pro-Choice" plate the company was offering they would also have to offer a "Choose Life" type of plate.
"Make a choice" alone is a non-biased message for cchoice. Choose Life is the ame as Choose Abortion, which wouldn't file.
@tony, haha...that was funny. I wasn't concieved in the nation of my birth...I need to start checking laws...might have a new citizenship!
Psalm 137:8-9
"O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us- he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."
The Bible is quite clear in this instance.
Kill the baby only AFTER the wh/ore of a mother has given birth.
One of my favorites:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
@Doc V & Honey Badger
Shhhhhhhhhh.... you're not supposed to trot out those little nuggets from the Bible. The fundies will have to do some mental gymnastics to respond to your post.
Peace...
@Honey Badger
I wish God were more consistent when ordering genocide.
Sometimes He says we can take se.x slaves, but other times we're supposed to kill everyone and everything.
Samuel 15:3
"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
I think you missed the point of the New Testament with your quoting the laws from Men in the old testament. Context
Exodus 21:22 When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman's husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. 23 If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
If I take your eye, you take mine. If I burn you, you burn mine. If I kill someone, I am to be killed. If I abort a child, it's a fine. The bible is explicit on this point, an unborn baby is not the same as one born.
Doc
And even Chad must think god allows abortion...
"The God of Isreal is real and nothing gets done without Him", so says the Chad.
@disengaging
Then can you please tell all the ho/mophobic Christians out there to quit quoting Leviticus to justify their anti-gay bigotry.
Religious Conservatives ideals – Government by Force.
And atheists aren't "religious" at all and would govern with kindness and altruism. Ha. Power corrupts, period, no matter your religious leanings.
Unfortunately, there is truth in your statement.
Is there any thing you Americans can Agree on? And listen how you all label yourself. Pro choice, pro llife, Gay, Republican, Democrat, conservitive, middle class, protestant, cathlic, the list goes on. I confess im alil bias on this because im a child of yhe most high, and he said not to do it. So im riding with what my Father Says. Also heres a list of other things he told us not to do but we do it anyway.. worship on sundays, eat pork, charge interest, masterbate inside the house, make your servants (employees) wait more than a day to pay him, bring trees in your home and decorate them and sing to it while exchanging gifts and as we all know dont lie with the man as you do with a woman. Just to name a few.
Bully for you. Live by those rules if you believe in them.
I don't. You can not legislate that I have to live by them.
That's really as simple as it gets.
And the bible was interpreted to mean that life did not begin until birth.
I've always wondered why ahteists waste what little time they have trying to convince us unenlightened that they're right. Don't you have better things to do with your time, like looking for something Hedonistic to do? Certainly you have notrhing to gain by arguing your point. I, on the other hand, have everything to gain by trying to convince you that you're wrong and an eternity to look forward to that makes my brief time here so much more satisfying.
To those of you who have never truly sought for God, you have nothing to lose by doing so. I would suggest "Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis. But if you refuse to seek, you surely will not find.
I would have lost precious minutes of the only life that I have to live in a pursuit that is a ridiculous endeavor and a waste of my valuable time.
We're not trying to convince you. You're already lost. We're letting the others who see the emperor has no clothes that they're not alone and it's ok to speak out against bad ideas, like your version of Pascal's Wager.
@Marineway
Thanks for your post... a little confirmation bias, circular reasoning... mixed in with a dash of Pascal's Wager. Nice. 😯
Peace...
@Marineway
Have you really sought Truth and enlightenment?
Have you dismissed Tanakh, Talmud, Midrash, Quran, Sunnah, Nahjul Balagha, Avesta, Vedas, Upanisahds, Bhagavad Gita, Puranas, Tantras, Sutras, Vachanas, Adi Granth, Purvas, Samayasara, Niyamasara, Pravacanasara, and Pancastikaya; Anupreksa; Samadhishataka of Pujyapada; Tattvarthasutra of Umasvati, Tattvarthasutra, Pali Tripitaka, Jataka,, Visuddimagga, Tripitaka, Lotus Sutra, Garland Sutra, Analects; the Great Learning; the Doctrine of the Mean; the Mencius, Tao Te Ching, Chuang-tzu, Kojiki, Nihon Shoki, K-oki, Ofudesaki, Mikagura-uta, Michi-no-Shiori, Johrei, Goseigen, Netarean Shower of Holy Doctrines, Chun Boo Kyung, Kitab-i-Iqan, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, Book of Mormon, Dianetics, or Revelation X?
They are all Holy Books that claim to be The Truth.
As a Bible adherent, how do you know whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, oriental Orthodox, As.syrian, Byzantine, Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, Anabaptism, Brethren, Methodist, Pietism, Apostolic, Pentocostal, Charismatic, African Initiated, United, Quakers, Couthcotti.tism, Millerism, British-Isrealism, Latter Day Saints, Mennonite, 7th day Adventism, Kelleyism, Co.oneyism, Shakers, Methernitha, Strigolniki, Yehowism, Christadelphians, Christian Science, doukhobors, Iglesia ni Cristo, Makuya, Molokans, Subbotniks, Ebionism, Martinism, Rosicrucians, Rastafarianism, Santo Daime, or Umbanda is the REAL interpretation of your God's words?
you surely will not find.
Most atheists here did find. They then opened their eyes and ran.
We simply don't want idiots like you telling us what to do. You seem to think you have that right but you do not.
Doc:
I love you. Logic and reasoning turn me on. As a former christian, choir girl, your post takes me back to the good ole' days of youth group and my incessant questioning that eventually got me "banned" from attending. Fundementalists really hate it when you use the scripture to invalidate another biblical point. Have a great day sir!
If non-believers presenting their point didn't occasionally work, we wouldn't see a growing number of atheists in the country. The fact that those who actually win people over aren't represented on message boards like this is no different than the same fact regarding Christian proselytizers.
Marineway does not grasp that religious fundamentalists like her are their own worst enemy. Trying to convert people to religious belief and frightening them with what will happen to them if they don't accept is what causes hostility to religion. The fear of a theocracy in America long standing and ever present. Confine your preaching to the choir Marineway.
Stay out of my exam room, stay out of my doctor visits and decision-making, stay out of my uterus.
That about covers it.
So you want everyone out of your business, except when it comes time to pay for it? Then everybody better step up, huh!
I wish there was a like button on here!!
Indeed – the only "choice" these people believe in is their choice to interfere with other people's choices. If that isn't hypocritical, then what is?!?
Where's my "I believe in a fairy in the sky" plate?
For al of you people deluding your selves the Supreme Court has ruled that abortion is legal.
So is alcohol. Do you have a problem with folks offering or suggesting an alternate, sober lifestyle?
Also, Oxford has ruled that "yourselves" is one word...
K-Dawg: the option (choice) to stay alcohol free is yours. The "Choose Life" movement becomes relevant to that choice only when you go back to the days of prohibition, where that choice is denied. I'd ask you to connect the dots on this, but that might be too taxing of your ability to form logical arguments, given that you are voluntarily submitting one of the oppositions best examples of why your logic is so faulty to begin with.
Too bad the ones on here had a mom that did not kill them, and yet they rant and rave. I am sure if your mom would have had the choice – some just might not be here today – A DAY LATE AND A DOLLAR SHORT.
@LB Colorado
What an asinine argument.
Peace...
Is LB Colorado speaking about his mom?
That line of reasoning would insist that all of reproductive age spend all of their time reproducing children so that every sperm and every ovum has a chance. Is that really what you want?
WIN. All these "pro life" people seem to forget the cost of rapid population expansion. Birth control & the right to choose to end an unintended pregnancy are a lot cheaper than the cost of rearing & feeding hordes of unwanted children.
So life has a price tag?
This is about keeping an opinion off a license plate.
@Greco – no, this about the state not making both prevalent opinions available.
Of course John is correct. It's about the legislature allowing a logo on a license plate that they approve but denying one that takes an opposite view.
@John, it's much more complicated than "both" opinions. Now we need the "Choose Life unless you were a ra. pe victim" plate and the "Choose life, but only for higher primates" plate and the "Spaying cats prevents a chance at grandmas reincarnation" plate. You open this up to "every" side of the issue and we've got thousands of new plates.