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December 14th, 2012
06:17 PM ET
Massacre of children leaves many asking, 'Where’s God?'By Dan Gilgoff and Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editors (CNN) – As he waited with parents who feared that their kids were among the 20 children killed at a Connecticut elementary school on Friday, Rabbi Shaul Praver said the main thing he could do for parents was to merely be present. “It’s a terrible thing, families waiting to find out if their children made it out alive,” said Praver, who leads a synagogue in Newtown, Connecticut, and was among nine clergy gathered with parents at a firehouse near Sandy Hook Elementary School, where the shooting occurred. “They’re going to need a lot of help,” Praver said of those who are close to the dead. From the first moments after Friday’s massacre, which also left six adults and the shooter dead, religious leaders were among the first people to whom worried and grieving families turned for help. Over the weekend, countless more Americans will look to clergy as they struggle to process a tragedy in which so many of the victims were children. “Every single person who is watching the news today is asking ‘Where is God when this happens?’” says Max Lucado, a prominent Christian pastor and author based in San Antonio. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter Lucado says that pastors everywhere will be scrapping their scheduled Sunday sermons to address the massacre. “You have to address it - you have to turn everything you had planned upside down on Friday because that’s where people’s hearts are,” Lucado says. “The challenge here is to avoid the extremes – those who say there are easy answers and those who say there are no answers.” Indeed, many religious leaders on Friday stressed that the important thing is for clergy to support those who are suffering, not to rush into theological questions. A University of Connecticut professor on Friday hung up the phone when asked to discuss religious responses to suffering, saying, “This is an immense tragedy, and you want an academic speculating on the problem of evil?” “There is no good answer at that time that anyone can hear and comprehend and take in,” said Ian T. Douglas, the bishop for the Episcopal diocese of Connecticut, referring to counseling family and friends of the dead. “They’re crying out from a place of deep pain.” Praver, the rabbi, will join a memorial service Friday night at Newtown’s St. Rose of Lima Roman Catholic Church. “We’re going to have a moment of prayer for the victims,” Praver said of the service. “We cannot let it crush our spirit and we march on.” Some national religious groups are also sending staff to Newtown, with 10 chaplains dispatched from the North Carolina-based Billy Graham Evangelistic Association on Friday. Public officials including President Obama, meanwhile, turned to the Bible in responding to the shooting. “In the words of Scripture, 'heal the brokenhearted and bind up their wounds,' ” Obama said from the White House, citing the book of Psalms. On Twitter, #PrayForNewton became a trending topic. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Some religious leaders argue that modern American life insulates much of the nation from the kind of senseless death and suffering that plagues much of the world every day. “Most of the world, for most of the world’s history, has known tragedy and trauma in abundance,” wrote Rob Brendle, a Colorado pastor, in a commentary for CNN’s Belief Blog after this summer’s deadly shooting in Aurora, Colorado, which left 12 dead. “You don’t get nearly the same consternation in Burundi or Burma, because suffering is normal to there,” wrote Brendle, who pastored congregants after a deadly shooting at his church five years ago. “For us, though, God has become anesthetist-in-chief. To believe in him is to be excused from bad things.” My Take: This is where God was in Aurora Lucado said there was an eerie irony for the Connecticut tragedy coming just before Christmas, noting the Bible says that Jesus Christ’s birth was followed by an order from King Herod to slay boys under 2 in the Roman city of Bethlehem. “The Christmas story is that Jesus was born into a dark and impoverished world,” Lucado says. “His survival was surrounded by violence. The real Christmas story was pretty rough.” Many religious leaders framed Friday’s shooting as evidence for evil in the world and for human free will in the face of a sovereign God. “The Bible tells us the human heart is ‘wicked’ and ‘who can know it?’” the Rev. Franklin Graham said in a statement about the massacre. “My heart aches for the victims, their families and the entire community.” Many religious leaders also said that such tragedies are a good time for lay people to express doubts about God – or anger. “This is a time to go deep and pray,” says Lucado. “If you have a problem with God, shake a fist or two at him. If he’s God, he’s going to answer. And if he’s in control, he’ll find a way to let you know. soundoff (9,195 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 Next » |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Their asking where was God? when all this was going on.
Well! As I recall when I was little in the 1st grade or so, they told God to leave the public school system, he was no longer welcome, we were no longer to thank him for the food we eat or the air we breath. They Marched God right out the front with pink slip in hand and welcomed the Devil with open arms, right on in. But don't Fret God and His Son Jesus were there for sure, weeping. The Devil was certainly there were he is alive and well on planet earth, where most of his followers are.
God does not belong in the public school system. Teach your kids about god at home, or in church.
Maybe if Trinka had spent more of elementary school learning how to read and write, she/he might be able to make a point.
Knock off the same, dear. You are about the 100th person to babble this nonsense. This tragedy wouldn't have been prevented by forcing children to recite Christian prayers aloud daily. Nut-jobs like you who use this terrible crime to spew your asinine opinions are disgusting.
Also, no one is stopping kids from praying in school. It is ORGANIZED prayer that is banned. But, by all means, continue your rant
The doofuses that continue to post this tripe are unable to grasp that fact, sam. I guess they all must live in outer Bumfvck, Arkansas, where everyone is Christian and they imagine the entire nation is like their little one-horse backwater. The schools in major city suburbs are incredibly diverse. Of course when Dinka went to school in her little burg, everyone was lily-white and Christian. That was 50 friggin' years ago! Things have changed, at least in the real world where the rest of us live. Now there are Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, and a host of other religions in a typical suburban classroom. Were Dinka's progeny to go to one of those schools, would she approve having her kids recite the prayers of the Muslim students? The Jewish kids?
Bet not.
The point about asking where god was is because the religious claim god is omniscient and omnipotent. Clearly there is a mismatch between that claim and the reality. Or are you saying that your god allowed these children to be slaughtered as retribution for separation of church and state?
God is responsible for providing you with food and air and you thank him each day for that. What's happening with the 25,000 people that die each day from hunger? Does God not care about them?
Why would an omniscient god be weeping? He knows what is going to happen. He cannot be wrong, right?
Excuse Me,
I am sorry if I offended any one with my post. I did learn how to read and write, I am not from Arkansas, I am actually Jewish. I believe That God does belong in our schools no matter what religion you are, pray to him the way you were taught. Muslim, Jewish, Christian, they believe in God you know.
Prayer is nothing more than self delusion. It does nothing, just like your god.
School should be for learning, not delusional behaviour.
trinka: prayer is fine. organized prayer is not
Trinka, you don't get it. Prayer has NEVER been banned from schools. God has never been ousted from schools. Public schools are legally BOUND not to favor one religion over another or to sponsor prayer. What part of that don't you understand? Children are not prevented from praying; schools simply cannot sponsor group prayer.
Tom, Tom: I think the truth interferes with their persecution complexes
He probably was in the North Pole, with Santa Claus and the elves organizing Christmas, right?
I guess he can scratch another 20 names off his list making Christmas come quicker for everyone else...
"What a most dis gust ting time, buy at sears..!"
No, he was tied up determining the outcome of football games.
God was watching and was pleased with popcorn in hand
On a pass-fail, fail
I'm sorry, "lol??", but your assertion is unfounded. For the month of December, 2012, I see that you have already surpassed last month's number of unfounded assertions, "lol??". Perhaps this book might help you, "lol??":
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
A great way to cope is to do 20 acts of kindness in memory of the 20 children that died. If we all do this it can start to heal this country in many ways.
A nice idea. Anyone who feels overwhelmed should decide just to do one in their honor. I will try to do one today.
James 1:13
"When under trial, let none say, "I am being tried by God" For with EVIL THINGS, God cannot be tried, NOR DOES HE TRY ANYONE"
1 John 5:19
"...The WHOLE WORLD is lying in the power of the wicked one."
Acts 24:15
"II have hope toward God... that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."
Wicked satanic lies from christendom teach God is responsible and or complicit in evil acts. These teachings dishonor God and alienate you from the truth about him. God is not responsible for the wickedness in the world. His chief adversary is.
Jay sez:
"God is not responsible for the wickedness in the world. His chief adversary is."
and who created this "chief adversary" ?
" God is not responsible for the wickedness in the world. His chief adversary is."
But if your God created everything then it created that evil as well and continues to allow it to interfere or your God isn't all powerful as Christians like to claim.
Job 1, 12
12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
God giving his pet daemon permission to take everything that a man has sounds like God trying someone to me.
If your next door neighbor was a bad guy and you knew it, but you allowed your child to be harmed by him, anyway...your ass would be in jail for being a negligent parent.
Isaiah 45: 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things
How come you ignorant fundiot nutters don't know your own bible?
Wonk, I saw someone explain the context of that verse already. Do you have a learning disability?
And expressly to you.
I'm sorry, "lol??", but every Christian has a different interpretation of the mythological collection of books and verses known as the "Bible", therefore any particular assumed interpretation is laughable.
Some people's brains just aren't wired correctly. We don't need fairytales about imaginary beings and their adversaries to explain events like this.
Religion makes people stupid.
Now, if I were to leave it at that one could justifiably say I was trolling, but I will explain. Every religion is a narrative its followers choose to embrace because they like that narrative better than the alternatives.
All of these narratives, and there have been thousands of them of the course of human existence, include beliefs for which there is no evidence whatsoever. For some reason this is accepted by believers as not only acceptable, but desirable. If I said I believed in alien abductions, leprechauns, or Santa Claus people would ridicule me, yet there is no less evidence for any of these than there is for the existence of God. Committing your life to a belief system for which there is no evidence suggesting it's valid seems stupid to me.
When believers are challenged to explain why they believe what they believe, or to explain seeming inconsistencies in what they believe, they resort to so many logically flawed arguments any thinking person would have to question their intelligent. Religion drives people to embrace stupid to justify their beliefs.
fail
I'm sorry, "lol??", but skytag's assertions are, in fact, valid.
I've seen this here before, but I don't know who to credit:
Evangelical Rule of Thumb:
If a bible verse furthers the cause, it is to be taken literally. If a bible verse is detrimental to the cause, it is either: taken out of context; is allegorical; refers to another verse somewhere else; is an ancient cultural anomaly; is a translation or copyist's error; means something other than what it actually says; Is a mystery of god or not discernible by humans; or is just plain magic.
Maybe it would be wise to wait until the character of the murderer unfolds. It is still possible that he is Atheist, therefore, then you may need to explain how he did all these awful things without religion in the equation.
To label any group of people is generally considered wrong, so why label all religious people they way you have in your comment. Do you know every Christian/Muslim/Hindu-ist/Buddhist in the world? Are they all 100% bad, evil, wrong people?
"To label any group of people is generally considered wrong"
Like labelling a group of people sinners?
@ Hubert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Fair enough. Now please learn to use the reply function.
Tried to "reply" – something wrong with how my computer is reloading the page
Thomas
Once again, fair enough. Though might I ask what the suicide rates of each particular country have to do with anything?
@Hubie
Only to point out that social ills are not endemic only to the US. We may have more mass shootings, but we have lower suicide rates, for example. We also have much lower homicide rates than the top 10 counties. I'm just trying to put things into a little perspective.
We have the highest homicide rate of any developed country. Comparing the homicide rate in the U.S. to a country like Serbia, Columbia, or Afghanistan is simply unfair.
@Hubie
Actually, Canada has a higher murder rate than the US, but saying the 84 countries that have a higher murder rate shouldn't be considered in the same category is wrong. A perhaps a little racist. The soft bigotry of low expectations
@Thomas.
"Canada has a higher murder rate than the US"
Seriously – you believe this? Did you get that from an NRA website or something...look again. To use your own source for the suicide numbers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
There seems to be this odd habit where anti-gun control people just make up statistics and repeat them and I think you've been caught in that trap.
Canada has 1.4 murders per 100,000 the U.S. has 4.2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Also I'm not saying that all countries with higher murder rates should be disregarded, only the ones that are not developed. To compare a wealthy country with a strong central government and effective police force to an undeveloped nation with a weak central government and an impotent or corrupt police force, if one exist at all, is silly.
I stand corrected. Read the chart wrong. USA is actually 104 on the list of homicide rates. Canada is lower.
But to shrug off the 103 countries that lead the US in murder rates simply to indict US, is irresponsible
Thomas
Have you ever been to an undeveloped nation?
I wonder at the people who are still braggin' about how rich ye olde USA is. Better check the balance sheets and see what the UNFAITHFUL PUblic Servants did.
@lol
Your ignorance is showing.
Your assertion is correct, "Huebert". "lol??"'s ignorance is, in fact, showing.
@Hubie
I have been to many undeveloped and underdeveloped countries.
China
Indonesia
Tailand
Iraq
Afghanistan
Several islands in the Carribean
Uzbekistan
and several others
Forgot to mention partially developed Canada!
Thomas
Then you should understand why comparing the US homicide rate to the homicide rate in those countries is ridiculous. This is like trying to compare your strength as an adult male, I as.sume that you are a male, to that of a five year old. Yes you are stronger, but that does not provide any useful information about your strength. In order to gain an accurate understanding about your strength you would need to be compared to your peers. In order to gain an accurate understanding about the homicide rate in the US you would need to compare the US to other wealthy developed nations. This is not arrogance, it is controlling for variance.
Hubie – point well made.
I feel sorry for the husband of Tom Tom the piper's son. I bet he's married to a fat cow! Imagine being married to that liberal fat trash bag and she's on the computer 24 hours a day because she's miserable
I <3 co.ck
"fat trash bag and she's on the computer 24 hours a day because she's miserable"
Great example of a bully.
Oh, look, it's Basher/Brophy/herbie/ClownQuestion, etc., the little boy who has to change his moniker every two hours because he gets his ass handed to him and is too embarrassed to come back under the same name.
Get over it, Dickie. You're lame.
Shut up u fat dog face Cow
Co.ck is my favorite part of breakfast.
Poor Dickie. You don't like having to wear the shoe that fits, do you? So sad for you.
In fact, the country with the highest teen suicide rate is India.
Where's God? Which God? This horrific action proves that there is no just and loving, all-powerful, all-knowing god. If there were it would surely prevent such tragedy. As a parent of two children of the same age range my heart hurts for these parents; but turning to the divine, and assuming it's some master plan, rather than taking action is what prevents us from moving forward with solutions to help prevent these types of violence.
How are you so sure? Sounds arrogant.
@lol
How are you so sure that there are no unicorns?
LOL?? = troll = ignore
@AH, Judging by the low rate of violent crime in Ja p an, Denmark, France and other secular countries I'd say we have to assume God loves non-believers.
Mass shootings may not be common in those countries, but they ALL have higher suicide rates than the US
Thomas
What is your source?
So what, Thomas? What possible difference does that make? By the way, Ireland has a higher rate of suicide than the US, and it's certainly go more religious believers than we do.
Do you have a point?
Would you rather live in a country where people who make there own decision to end their lives feel free to do so without fear of eternal damnation or where you regularly run the risk of getting killed walking down the street if you live in a city that's large enough to have one decent museum and a university?
Man has free will only to the extent that he is rational
I have yet to see a good definition of free will, and I've read several books that tried.
Well, maybe you did see what others consider to be a good definition of free will, but you, for some reason, deemed it not to be a good one!
@Thomas, iF there's something like "free will" on which hundreds of books have been written trying to define it, you probably want to include your definition if you make a post on the topic.
I believe my quote is already found in a book.
It was first written by Thomas Aquinas (+1274)
I don't believe in free will. I think it's an illusion. I believe each of our brains is a unique computer that processes information and makes decisions according to a set of rules based on the structure of that brain and the information fed into it over the course of our lifetimes. The uniqueness of each brain and the information fed into it results in each of us making different choices as we go through life.
Although each brain is unique, by and large there is a lot of commonality as certain traits are favored by evolution because they increase our chances of survival.
""free will"
occurs in 0 verses in the KJV"...You were free until you thought or committed your very little ol' first sin. Do you remember the first time?
@Thomas, Thank you for the clarification: I didn't read that as a definitional statement initially, but I agree it could be read either way. Aquinas started with an assumption that free will was necessary to the existing god concept, and so came up with an explanation that didn't quite (in my opinion, as you rightly point out) fit the need. I think it's easier to eliminate the whole concept – if you don't start with the religious need, it is no longer required.
"Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?" ....How do you know if you are free or not?
"2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.".......BTW, that's NOT a command.
LOL?? = troll = ignore
Only for the new members of this blog:->>
The earliest known United States shooting to happen on school property was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where four Lenape American Indians entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed nine or ten children (reports vary). Only three children survived.[18]"
Wikipedia has an excellet review of the topic.
And the shootings obviously have not stopped.
What to do?
Background checks not only for the teachers but also their relatives.
Added security for all schools.
More at-home/internet education.
Gated parking lots.
No toleration of bullying or bullies.
And instill in all global citizens, three words: DO NO HARM!!!
You keep spamming your crap, but your "solutions" are NOT guaranteed to be either effective or affordable.
Why call yourself "Reality" when you are so out of touch with it?
Not a single one of your suggestions would have stopped this tragedy from occurring.
I have yet to decide for myself whether 'Reality' is a troll or just a bit removed from the reality he claims to speak for. I have yet to see one of his posts that actually offers any solution to whatever he seems to be trying to solve.
The door is open for all other suggestions on how to prevent this tragedy from happening again. In the meantime, some added history and statistics.
School shootings have been occurring since 1764 in the territory that was to become the USA:
"According to the National School Safety Center, since the 1992-1993 U.S. school year there has been a significant decline in school-as-sociated violent deaths (deaths on private or public school property for kindergarten through grade 12 and resulting from schools functions or activities):[37]"
1992–1993 (44 Homicides and 55 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1993–1994 (42 Homicides and 51 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1994–1995 (17 Homicides and 20 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1995–1996 (29 Homicides and 35 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1996–1997 (23 Homicides and 25 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1997–1998 (35 Homicides and 40 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1998–1999 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)
1999–2000 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)
According to the U.S. Department of Education, in the 1998-1999 School Year, 3,523 students (57% High School, 33% Junior High, 10% Elementary) were expelled for bringing a firearm to school.[38]
The late 1990s started to see a major reduction in gun related school violence, but was still plagued with multiple victim shootings including;
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States for a list of shootings from 1764 to the current tragedy.
...
Ok I'm out have a goodnight its all arguments on here nothing helpful or kind or caring.
(Sorry, forgot a verse. It's all here now)
It was twenty years ago today
That the coaches said we couldn't play
Our classmates called us nerdy geeks
Our pastors told us to be meek
You wonder why we're full of rage?
We need this electronic stage.
RICHARD DAWKINS' LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND!
We're Richard Dawkins' Lonely Hearts Club Band
We've got no bloddy place to go
We're Richard Dawkins' one and only Lonely Hearts Club Band
The girls in high school told us "no"
Richard Dawkins', Lonely, RIchard Dawkins' Lonely
Richard Dawkins' Lonely (Harmony) Hearts Club Band
I don't really want to spoil the show
But I thought you'd all like to know
My daddy was a fall-down drunk
His uncle was pedophile monk
I don't know how to handle pain
My childhood prayers were in vain
Richard Dawkins' Lonely Hearts Club Band!
Billy Shears!
What would you think if I called God a jerk, would you stand up and walk out on me.
Lend me your ears and I'll sing you a song of why your faith bothers me
Oh I get by with a little hate in my heart
Ooh, and I cry with a little hate in my heart,
Yeah, I'm going to die with a little hate in my heart.
Mmm, I'm going die with a little hate in my heart, with a little hate in my (Harmony!) Heart!
All together, now!
It was twenty years ago today
That the coaches said we couldn't play
Our classmates called us nerdy geeks
Our pastors told us to be meek
You wonder why we're full of rage?
We need this electronic stage.
RICHARD DAWKINS' LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND!
We're Richard Dawkins' Lonely Hearts Club Band
We've got no bloddy place to go
We're Richard Dawkins' one and only Lonely Hearts Club Band
The girls in high school told us "no"
Richard Dawkins', Lonely, RIchard Dawkins' Lonely
Richard Dawkins' Lonely (Harmony) Hearts Club Band
Billy Shears!
What would you think if I called God a jerk, would you stand up and walk out on me.
Lend me your ears and I'll sing you a song of why your faith bothers me
Oh I get by with a little hate in my heart
Ooh, and I cry with a little hate in my heart,
Yeah, I'm going to die with a little hate in my heart.
Mmm, I'm going die with a little hate in my heart, with a little hate in my (Harmony!) Heart!
@retardo ... not even funny.... ....... how old are you? 12?
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
I think I did it again
I made you believe, we're more than just friends
Oh baby, it might seem like a crush
But it doesn't mean that I'm serious
'Cause to lose all my senses
That is just so typically me
Oh baby, baby
Oops! I did it again
I played with your heart, got lost in the game
Oh baby, baby
Oops! You think I'm in love
That I'm sent from above
I'm not that innocent
You see my problem is this
I'm dreaming away
Wishing that heroes, they truly exist
I cry, watching the days
Can't you see, I'm a fool in so many ways
But to lose all my senses
That is just so typically me
Baby, oh
Oops! I did it again
I played with your heart, got lost in the game
Oh baby, baby
Oops! You think I'm in love
That I'm sent from above
I'm not that innocent
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
Just making a point. I'm 33 an adult. An not looking to get into childish arguing on here just for having my own beliefs but I'm getting a perfect example look at how people on here are posted remember if they don't believe with other person says I don't agree or like what the other person says and they want to start arguing and bickering at them weather there is a God or whether there's not a guy none of us including me and him probably want to hear that in heaven or earth U expect your children to know how to act but they watch u and if u argue get mad on here at others because they don't think believe like u. How you expect your kids to know how to not argue with others for having a opinion
Bullying is one of our biggest problems in our society and this forum shows it's not ending anytime soon.
You don't get it. The issue for atheists isn't that believers don't agree with them, but that believers rely on the most tortured logic imaginable to justify believing things there is no rational reason to believe.
Many of the comments in this discussion demonstrate clearly why many atheists hate religion. Religions start innocently enough, as narratives that explain the otherwise explainable, offer comfort to those having difficulty dealing with injustice or loss, allow us to deny the finality of death, even believe we have an invisible friend who will control the elements for us and assure us victory in battle.
To the extent these beliefs give people comfort and inspire them to be better people, it's all good. But there is a dark side. When something bad happens, such as an incident like this, a drought, an earthquake, a flood, a plague, or other natural disaster, in seeking explanations believers often conclude the problem is that God is not pleased with them. Of course it's never that he isn't pleased with them, it's that he isn't pleased with the nonbelievers, the atheists, the people in false (i.e., "other") religions, sinners, gays, witches; there has always been a group of people to blame for making God so unhappy that he's punishing everyone.
The next step is to correct the problem by persecuting, punishing, or even eliminating the people who have offended God so he'll be happy again and stop the plague, make it rain, not let anymore earthquakes happen in the future, whatever. This is where it gets ugly. History is replete with examples of people who were killed, persecuted, tortured, burned at the stake, had their rights taken away from them, all in the name of protecting the people from the wrath of a being no one could even prove existed. This is the truly dark side of religion.
So if you think it's just that people have any issue with others simply for not believing what they believe you really don't get it.
skintag, ".............The next step is to correct the problem by persecuting, punishing, or even eliminating the people who have offended God..........." I see, ye olde creeping Socialism trick is what makes you afraid.
@lol??: You're wasting your time posting your idiotic Limbot responses to anything I say. I've been discussing politics online for years. Fools like you are a dime a dozen. I give their comments all the consideration I would those of anyone I consider to be mentally troubled, which is none.
Well said Skytag.
skytag wins
good form old bean
You've been discussing politics on line for years but seem to forget that people do not need religion in order to group together and marginalize, oppress and victimize other less organized or powerful groups. If your efforts at combating religion are aimed at alleviating man's inhumanity to man, I'd say your ideology is skewed. That or you are obfuscating the fact that what you really hate is religion (possible even God) and are merely using the "dark side" of it as an excuse to press your attack.
skintag sayz, "...........I've been discussing politics online for years.........." If you've been doing it at CNN's belief blogs you have my sympathy. It also explains a LOT.
There is no easy scapegoat here.
It was not lack of religion, easy access to firearms, media glorification of violence, or chemtrails in the sky.
If the staff at the school were armed, the result would not have changed.
Sometimes, people decide to forfeit their own lives in a hail of avenging bullets.
There is no single factor, or group of factors, to which one can assign blame for this individual's insanity.
There is no rational response to an emotional argument.
What's crazy is he didn't even buy the guns, his mother had them.
"......If the staff at the school were armed, the result would not have changed.........." Cops have the "right" to carry as an extension of the Masters' right to carry. Gonna disarm the whole wurld, docster? Military spending is out of control, so I see your point. Socialists need to be kept on a short leash.
@lol???
Good morning Mr. Troll.
I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that you've never worn a uniform.
I'm not advocating universal disarmament – that simply doesn't work.
What I'm saying is that if the teachers had weapons, it wouldn't have stopped the rampage.
It is also unlikely that a janitor, teacher, security guard or whatnot would have wandered into the line of fire to try and use a handgun to take down the gunman.
Police and soldiers are trained to be able to handle themselves under fire, which is far more important than knowing how to use a gun. But even then, it is impossible to know how an individual will react in such a situation until they've experienced being under fire.
Let's be clear here, docster. The educratist industry gives a whoop about walking all over peoples rights, because they have declared themselves GOD. They never get enough for their desires and have stomped the Masters property rights all to hades. Party, party, have an opposite day.
@lol??
A word of advice:
You really shouldn't stop taking your meds until the Doctor says it's OK.
I know that without the voices guiding you, you don't know what to burn or who the Illuminati are, but you're much better off without them.
Socialism is bbbbbaaaad to the bone.
LOL?? = troll = ignore
Billy Shears!
What would you think if I called God a jerk, would you stand up and walk out on me.
Lend me your ears and I'll sing you a song of why your faith bothers me
Oh I get by with a little hate in my heart
Ooh, and I cry with a little hate in my heart,
Yeah, I'm going to die with a little hate in my heart.
Mmm, I'm going die with a little hate in my heart, with a little hate in my (Harmony!) Heart!
Here comes Santa Claus,
Here comes Santa Claus,
Right down Santa Claus Lane,
Vixen and Blitzen and all his reindeer
Pullin' on the reins.
Bells are ringin', children singin',
All is merry and bright.
So hang your stockings and say your prayers,
'Cause Santa Claus comes tonight.
Here comes Santa Claus,
Here comes Santa Claus,
Right down Santa Claus Lane,
He's got a bag that's filled with toys
For boys and girls again.
Hear those sleigh bells jingle jangle,
Oh what a beautiful sight,
So jump in bed, and cover your head,
'Cause Santa Claus comes tonight.
To the undecided:
If there's a God and you believe, you spend eternity in paradise.
If there's a God and you don't believe, you spend eternity in hell.
If there's no God and you believe / don't believe, you're dust in a few years.
What do you risk by believing and it turns out there is no God? Nothing, you're dust in a few years anyway.
What do you risk by not believing and there happens to be a God? Everything. You spend eternity in hell.
Is it worth the risk to not believe? If there's even the smallest, tiniest chance that there's a God, the reward is infinite, and you risk nothing by believing. It's the best bet you could ever make.
Google Pascal's Wager. No one wants to explain to you why it's silly to quote an argument that was easily dismissed as illogical several hundred years ago. I don't care whether you believe in a god, and have no idea whether there is one, but I do care if you are perpetuating bad logic and low quality debate.
"If there's a God and you don't believe, you spend eternity in hell."
Seeing as only 30% of people on this planet believe in your specific God that means 70% of people are going to end up in your version of hell. Now, how can you claim that your God is loving when it's burning most people on this planet for eternity or turning them into dust? LOL!
Since there is just as much chance that the Norse were right, I hope that you're going to try and die valiantly in battle so Odin will grant you passage to Valhalla.
"If there's a God and you believe, you spend eternity in paradise.
If there's a God and you don't believe, you spend eternity in hell."
To the illogical
Your post is nonsense.
It presumes only two possible outcomes, either your god or no god.
It presumes that god would rather people blindly follow rather than using their brains
If you want to believe because it provides you a "Get Out Of Hell" card, then you must think your god is a dolt for not seeing the reason you believe
Another wholly ridiculous argument offered by someone desperate to justify his belief in something for which there is no evidence. Seriously, the logical failures in your argument are laughable.
First, you're not even talking about believe, you're talking about putting on a pretense of believing. You can't sincerely believe something just because it sounds better than the alternative. I sounds to me as if you're trying to justify your commitment to a belief system you don't really buy into.
Second, the idea that some all powerful God will punish you forever if you don't commit your life to a belief system based on claims for which there is no evidence whatsoever is just stupid.
Third, since I'm just supposed to decide to believe in God with no rational reason to so and no understanding of his nature based on any facts or evidence whatsoever, in which deity should I decide to believe, and why? The Christian god? The gods of the American indians? The Norse gods? The Greek gods? Should I adopt the beliefs of some remote African tribe? Let me guess, I should adopt your beliefs because someone on the Internet I don't know from Adam thinks they make the most sense. Thanks, but no thanks.
Your comment demonstrates why so many people dislike religion: it makes people stupid.
This is a morally bankrupt argument. You are going to believe something and follow certain rules just because you're afraid of "hell". Grow a backbone.
What're the current "virgin rewards" for the various god's "heavens"?: One should make an informed decision when picking a cult.
"This is a morally bankrupt argument." Well then it's the perfect argument for people like J. Matt who are beholden to organized religion who's picture is there next to "morally bankrupt" in the dictionary...