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December 14th, 2012
06:17 PM ET
Massacre of children leaves many asking, 'Where’s God?'By Dan Gilgoff and Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editors (CNN) – As he waited with parents who feared that their kids were among the 20 children killed at a Connecticut elementary school on Friday, Rabbi Shaul Praver said the main thing he could do for parents was to merely be present. “It’s a terrible thing, families waiting to find out if their children made it out alive,” said Praver, who leads a synagogue in Newtown, Connecticut, and was among nine clergy gathered with parents at a firehouse near Sandy Hook Elementary School, where the shooting occurred. “They’re going to need a lot of help,” Praver said of those who are close to the dead. From the first moments after Friday’s massacre, which also left six adults and the shooter dead, religious leaders were among the first people to whom worried and grieving families turned for help. Over the weekend, countless more Americans will look to clergy as they struggle to process a tragedy in which so many of the victims were children. “Every single person who is watching the news today is asking ‘Where is God when this happens?’” says Max Lucado, a prominent Christian pastor and author based in San Antonio. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter Lucado says that pastors everywhere will be scrapping their scheduled Sunday sermons to address the massacre. “You have to address it - you have to turn everything you had planned upside down on Friday because that’s where people’s hearts are,” Lucado says. “The challenge here is to avoid the extremes – those who say there are easy answers and those who say there are no answers.” Indeed, many religious leaders on Friday stressed that the important thing is for clergy to support those who are suffering, not to rush into theological questions. A University of Connecticut professor on Friday hung up the phone when asked to discuss religious responses to suffering, saying, “This is an immense tragedy, and you want an academic speculating on the problem of evil?” “There is no good answer at that time that anyone can hear and comprehend and take in,” said Ian T. Douglas, the bishop for the Episcopal diocese of Connecticut, referring to counseling family and friends of the dead. “They’re crying out from a place of deep pain.” Praver, the rabbi, will join a memorial service Friday night at Newtown’s St. Rose of Lima Roman Catholic Church. “We’re going to have a moment of prayer for the victims,” Praver said of the service. “We cannot let it crush our spirit and we march on.” Some national religious groups are also sending staff to Newtown, with 10 chaplains dispatched from the North Carolina-based Billy Graham Evangelistic Association on Friday. Public officials including President Obama, meanwhile, turned to the Bible in responding to the shooting. “In the words of Scripture, 'heal the brokenhearted and bind up their wounds,' ” Obama said from the White House, citing the book of Psalms. On Twitter, #PrayForNewton became a trending topic. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Some religious leaders argue that modern American life insulates much of the nation from the kind of senseless death and suffering that plagues much of the world every day. “Most of the world, for most of the world’s history, has known tragedy and trauma in abundance,” wrote Rob Brendle, a Colorado pastor, in a commentary for CNN’s Belief Blog after this summer’s deadly shooting in Aurora, Colorado, which left 12 dead. “You don’t get nearly the same consternation in Burundi or Burma, because suffering is normal to there,” wrote Brendle, who pastored congregants after a deadly shooting at his church five years ago. “For us, though, God has become anesthetist-in-chief. To believe in him is to be excused from bad things.” My Take: This is where God was in Aurora Lucado said there was an eerie irony for the Connecticut tragedy coming just before Christmas, noting the Bible says that Jesus Christ’s birth was followed by an order from King Herod to slay boys under 2 in the Roman city of Bethlehem. “The Christmas story is that Jesus was born into a dark and impoverished world,” Lucado says. “His survival was surrounded by violence. The real Christmas story was pretty rough.” Many religious leaders framed Friday’s shooting as evidence for evil in the world and for human free will in the face of a sovereign God. “The Bible tells us the human heart is ‘wicked’ and ‘who can know it?’” the Rev. Franklin Graham said in a statement about the massacre. “My heart aches for the victims, their families and the entire community.” Many religious leaders also said that such tragedies are a good time for lay people to express doubts about God – or anger. “This is a time to go deep and pray,” says Lucado. “If you have a problem with God, shake a fist or two at him. If he’s God, he’s going to answer. And if he’s in control, he’ll find a way to let you know. soundoff (9,195 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 Next » |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Where is God in tragedy you ask. He is there with the dying believer ensuring that he is lifted to heaven and he is there with the rest of the evil people ensuring that they go to hell because thats what they want. All people that are not saved are evil enemies of God plain and simple they can not understand God nor do they care to. When you perceive yourself to be a good person thats your excuse and your deffinition of good which doesnt matter in the eyes of God. Evil people look for any reason to attack God such as these blogs and worthless books about dancing to your genes.
Yes God is your creator but he is not your father if you dont believe in him, which means that Satan is your father and the holder of your heart and your mind. Why do you feel such hate towards God if he just some imaginary figment of crazy Christains, thats not the premiss of Aetheism which believes theres no God so why hate him if hes not real? There is a reason and its that you hate God , because your father Satan wishes it. If anyone could see hell then the fear of it would have you in every church service you could find , but you dont usually get that opportunity until death and its too late. God could put you there and then you would beleive in him and that would take away your choice of free will so he stays out of our business until you seek him. Christians experience God everyday because he is our father and he looks out for us. The bible says that "I called to them but since they have ignored me I will give them what they dread" , you dont want that trust me. Why do you attack the Christians when thay are only looking to help you avoid hell, the demons wont help you when you are dead and they come for you. Dont bother saying something about high and mighty Christians that think that they are better than you because you father Satan put fake Christians in your path to make you hate God. I dont think Im better than anyone , I have been at the lowest in my life for too long before God lifted me when I sought him out.
You will believe eventually but after your death and you are standing over your lifeless body it will be too late and your freedom of choice is gone and you will go to what you dread, hell.
I do not dread imaginary places.
oooh....hell......pretty scary.....for those who believe in that tripe
bob....fvck you and your empty proxy threats
Quran says, (holy Islamic scripture)
“They say (subconsciously), "We live only this life; we will not be resurrected." [6:29]
“If you could only see them when they stand before their Lord! He would say, "Is this not the truth?" They would say, "Yes, by our Lord." He would say, "You have incurred the retribution by your disbelief." [6:30]
“Losers indeed are those who disbelieve in meeting God, until the Hour comes to them suddenly, then say, "We deeply regret wasting our lives in this world." They will carry loads of their sins on their backs; what a miserable load! [6:31]
“The life of this world is no more than illusion and vanity, while the abode of the Hereafter is far better for the righteous. Do you not understand?! [6:32]
“Recall that your Lord said to the angels, "I am placing a representative (a temporary god) on Earth." They said, "Will You place therein one who will spread evil therein and shed blood, while we sing Your praises, glorify You, and uphold Your absolute authority?" He said, "I know what you do not know." [2:30]
“They do not value God as He should be valued. God is the Most Powerful, the Almighty.”[22:74]
“If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.” [Quran 6:116]
Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to visit whyIslam org website.
prayers dont work.. so stop praying.. instead you can do the good acts of sharing and helping others without the advertisement of god.
there is no god no equality.
Man (Adam & Eve along with their descendants) was left to prove he can guide his own step successfully since he rebel against his creator. He continues to fail. 2nd Corinthians 4:4 is what every so called Christian has been ignoring- "If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things (Satan) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious GOOD NEWS about the Christ, who is the image of God, might NOT shine through." You will continue blind and unbelieving until you listen and accept the Good News about the Kingdom of God- the only solution to mankind's woes.
marc: you do know that quoting scripture to those who do not accept the authority of the source is only so convincing, don't you?
Powerful lobbies such as the Pro Israel lobby, American Atheists and many others pay top dollar to have shills come to these forums, spread their agenda and copy whatever info they can get about the people who disagree with their point of view. If you knew how many of the "debaters" in this forum were paid shills
sitting in boiler room type operations all day basically getting into character and arguing the agenda their boss gave them you would spend less time debating them and more time talking about their little known but thriving industry. anyone who is in the lobby industry or marketing research knows about this business but the majority of the average forum readers have no clue that the person they are talking with is in character and secretly copying their info and telling some lobby if they agree or disagree with their agenda. Mad grimy. I don;t care what your politics are one way or the other...I just want you to be able to spot these shills when you come across them.
http://consciouslifenews .com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/1147073/
Question is...how is it that all good is attributed to god, while all evil to man/devil? I thought god created EVERYTHING, and has the power over EVERYTHING...
yah, azztard. I'm making a bundle shilling against fools like you. Fukking deluded fool, and first class LIAR.
God was in the same place he always is during any crisis, deep in the imaginations of people saying "how could he let this happen". And what would all you born and raised Christians say if the killer said "God told me to do this"? After all time and time again the bible tells stories of murder because God told them to!
Your diatribe against Christianity falls short. I notice there is no valid academic argument, and no proper use of reasoning. Rather than throwing assertions with no means of support, please consider investing in the departments of Philosophy and Theology. And as Fulton J. Sheen once said, "Far better it is for you to say: "I am a sinner," than to say: "I have no need of religion." The empty can be filled, but the self-intoxicated have no room for God."
@Abe
You said, "I notice there is no valid academic argument, and no proper use of reasoning."
The argument is, of course, that without proper support in evidence, it is completely ridiculous to assume there is such a creature like your god.
You said, "Rather than throwing assertions with no means of support, please consider investing in the departments of Philosophy and Theology."
The assertion is simply the default position. Because, without any evidence to support the existence of gods, it is simply ignorant to assume they exist. And, without a shred of evidence to support the assertion of the believers that their god is real, theology is nothing more than a discussion of the fabric, the cut, the colors and patterns of the emperor's new clothes.
You said, "And as Fulton J. Sheen once said, "Far better it is for you to say: "I am a sinner," than to say: "I have no need of religion." The empty can be filled, but the self-intoxicated have no room for God.""
That only goes to show that Sheen was deluded. To anyone who has the ability and willingness to apply rational thought to the matter it will become clear that it is only the "self-intoxicated" that have a need for gods. It is the believers that proclaim to be the "chosen ones". It is them that claim to be so special as to warrant preferential treatment by some all-powerful being.
Do us all a favor, and get the fuck over yourself.
Where was God? God was in the same place He was when cruel men took His only Son and crucified Him on a cross.
Yes. He was trapped in some religionist's imagination and just couldn't find his way out in time. In fact, he never found his way out.
I can tell you where god was and is: In people's imaginations.
A good imagination is a definite advantage in this world, and I can't imagine a world without God.
Still, the article itself seems like it's a moot point. Without death, there can be no real appreciation of life. For triumph over evil to have meaning, the evil must be real. God doesn't *let* evil into our lives, God *places* us within range of evil, and our own free will ensures that good and evil are the choices we face. The metal tempered by fire is stronger than the metal not tempered.
Thoughts about "why God allows this" are like thoughts regarding abortion and birth control – to prevent the choice is as much hubris as it is assuming that you know God's will. I certainly don't know his will, I barely know my own at times! All I can do is strive to make good choices and DEMAND that those choices REMAIN mine! The moment someone else makes them for me, I lose the gift of free will that God gave me, and any glory for making the right choice. Further, to force my choices off on others is more than mere hypocrisy, it is the same as assuming God's will yet again. It seems strange to me that so many "Christians" are so intent on such an un-Christ like position (the Bible would show us that Christ is much more likely to offer sympathy and compassion to the sinner, while rebuking those that would force the sinner to act as they believe they should – He would also offer hope and guidance to make the right *choice*, but his sympathy and compassion would not be bound by or contingent on that choice).
So you are free to lead a life that can't imagine God, and others are free to commit horrors that affect our lives here on this planet. Those lost surely moved on to a better place, or at least to the place they deserve. This planet is just a training ground for the after-life, after all – so what difference will living 10 years versus 110 years make when eternity is on the far side? With enough imagination, you won't have to ask about what God allows or why he allows tragedies like this – you will instead be able to use these events to ask yourself if you are ready to move on when your time comes.
Great. Now we have the loony christian cultist perspective. Anyone care to give us those of other religions?
@ImaginaryGod: .."So you are free to lead a life that can't imagine God"...
– – – –
Such a web of fairy tales has been woven by you religionists. While on the surface that does not seem to affect the rest of us, it becomes bit much when the deluded start to give others the 'dispensation' to live a life devoid of that same delusion. My take is that we're all living in an insane-asylum experiment where the inmates think they are in charge, just because they have grabbed a white lab coat.
Imaginary God – Just wanted to say I like your post. Well said.
no proof
Mike Texoma, have you recently experienced brain trauma?
We are watching you!
And prying you will see the light and stop trying to things your way!
ado
You should know the answer to that. Everything that happens in your life was brought on by YOU. We were all given science, knowledge and free will. Yes, THE ALL gave those three things because of the love for us and also that we would have a life to be proud of and share with others. If it's not working for you, check your Karma. You have to fix all of the problems you caused in previous lives. This isn't your first life you know. Start by reading The Nag Hammadi Scriptures.
The greatest, glaring hole in all this is how all believers, rich and poor, keep on giving this god a male 'persona'.
'HE' did this". 'He did that'. 'He' said this and that. 'He' is this, etc.
This is proof of
mass hypnotism and handed down brainwashing.
If you'd read your Bible you'd see that God gives Himself the male persona.
Hey Rick... Read THE AGE OF REASON written by Thomas Paine. Then get back to us.
The greatest, glaring hole in all this is how all believers, rich and poor, keep on giving this god a male 'persona'.
'HE' did this". 'He did that'. He said this and that'.
This is proof of
mass hypnotism and handed down brainwashing.
If there's no omnipotent being...then there's nobody to blame.
If there were an omnipotent being you would have to know everything about his plan in order to assess the ‘why’. But since you can’t know everything about a God, if there is one, then you also can’t find blame there either.
This is horrifyingly sad. But I'll paraphrase Sam Harris on this point, "9,000,000 children under the age of 5 die each year – that’s an Asian tsunami like the one in 2004 that killed 250,000, one of those every 10 days, killing only children under five. 24000/day, 1000/hr. 17/minute. That means before I get to the end of this sentence, some few children will have died in terror in agony. Who can worship any God that will allow children to die by the millions and to suffer in this way, and their parents to grieve in this way – and by the way, most of these children will go to hell according to Christianity because they and their parents were praying to the wrong God."
Don't focus on the temporary, think long time. All those kids that died are in heaven, much better place to be at.
I think you mean only the Christian ones correct?
rightforlife,
Excellent argument infavor of abortion. Well done.
That's absolutely wrong about the children going to Hell.
This is an example of how Believers like yourself are so full of yourselves and your God. 2/3 of the world isn't Christian but according to God, only you selfish buttheads want to go to heaven. Besides, I bet instead of the actual terrible shooter you are blaming on the Devil. besides no proof for God and don't say everything could not have come without a creator. It is just our small human heads who cannot comprehend how everything came to be. The Big Bang theory is more plausible than an imaginary being. Look up Carl Sagan Dragon in My Garage.
Remember everyone – age of accountability ISN'T in the bible anywhere. It's just something we've come up with to make ourselves not feel like dinks on behalf of the christian god.
These children don't go to hell. They go to heaven. They are too young to be accountable for their beliefs. Read your Bible Mr.humanist.
I'm not sure if Chad would save himself from all these deity sanctioned murders. He might see it as his ticket to heaven.
I got punishment from your post about parents and kids having to deal with the consequences of their actions. However, if the husband allows the kids to get into the car with the mother, then he is guilty of their deaths as well. So now we have not just 1 death, but 2 or more. So I, as a human trying to prevent a tragedy, am better than this deity who just twiddles its thumbs and goes lalalalala.
Chad,
Still stumped? Would you have saved the children? YES or NO?
Simple question. Either a 2 or 3 lettter answer.
Atheists and agnostics have ZERO problems. So much for "Christian" morality.
Yes or NO?
Chad's smart enough to avoid the trap you place and too stupid to realize that his god is already caught fast in it.
I'm envisioning a comic strip panel in the style of a political cartoon. God is ranting and preaching love and tolerance. All the while, he's having trouble walking because a rather large Bear Trap of Hate has ensnared the bottom half of one leg.
Where was God when the children were massacred? He was right there where He was when He was watching His own son stretched out, nailed to the Cross so that you and I would not be lost forever in eternity.
He didn't spare His Son, but seeing the glory and triumph that followed afterward, He swallowed the tears and let satan play his game for a moment. If you people humbled yourself in your hearts and did not listen to satan's accusations against God, you may hear God instead and have your understanding enlightened.
As it is, you'll just walk your road in darkness, right into the trap that father of lies has set for you, not knowing where he's leading you. Whom will you blame at the end then.... God?
Hey, Prissy! Still loving Sam Barber's "Adagio for Strings"? Did you know he was gay?
Prism 1234,
If you could have prevented this horrible slaughter would you have done it or would you have just sat around and watched the massacre of children like God did?
After Chad's hands are through with him, they should start looking for you.
@Observer,
I'm not God, I don't see the past, present and future. But I trust in His character that all things are in His hands, and if He is there when a sparrow falls to the ground, He was there when those little ones fell to the ground. Christ Jesus spoke of judgment on the wicked, in fact many more in number of times than promises to the humble and pure and righteous of heart. He knew what human heart needs, because He knew what was in man. If you want answers, don't look for them to prove to yourself that you are fine the way you are, and you don't need Christ. That is what man in hi natural state desperately tries to convince himself of. He'll go to great length to disprove the claim of man who knows otherwise. But humble yourself and ask Christ to reveal Himself to you. Then you will not have to ask no man to show you and convince you, and the answers will come to you in such way that you will know they came from God Himself. And HE will form in you a character of such strength that even in the face of gates of Hell you will know who the LORD its! You have this life,and you have free will. It's your turn!
We've seen the character your god forms. You can keep your pedophile priests, your bigots and dullards.
You've seen NOTHING, becaue the god of this world has blinded your eyes. You've bitten into his lies, hook, line and sinker. If it were not so, you would recognize Christ Jesus for who His is. You are poor, blind, wretched and lame beggar, whose heart is filled with pride to face your own condition. So what's in you overflows into posts you write. Don't pretend otherwise. You condemn those pedophile priests, bigots and dullards. But they are your future cohabitants, not mine, because you, like them have rejected the Truth. "
By their fruits you shall know them" Christ said. Yet, you put Him, the Lord of glory in same category as the evildoers, therewith piling condemnation on YOUR OWN head! Now, go and laugh, laugh your heart out! But inside you know that your laugh is empthy and phony!
@PrismRainbow: "You've seen NOTHING, becaue the god of this world has blinded your eyes."
God blinded me with science, eh? Sounds like an 80's tune.
***
"You've bitten into his lies, hook, line and sinker."
You were talking about god. You're saying god lies? That's an improvement. You're coming along nicely.
***
"If it were not so, you would recognize Christ Jesus for who His is."
I recognize him perfectly well for who he is: bigoted fiction.
***
"You condemn those pedophile priests, bigots and dullards. But they are your future cohabitants..."
Thanks to religion, they're all our *current* cohabitants. You and me both, buster. So you can see why we need to get rid of religion then?
***
"Yet, you put Him, the Lord of glory in same category as the evildoers"
He's a god. I didn't put him anywhere. He put himself in the camp with bigoted morons and pedophiles. One would think a god would have enough power to change friends but apparently he couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper sack.
***
"Now, go and laugh"
Oh, trust I have, am and will go on laughing at you.
"Where was God when the children were massacred? He was right there where He was when He was watching His own son stretched out, nailed to the Cross so that you and I would not be lost forever in eternity."
Thousands of children die each year. I think most of us have had enough of your invisible man in the sky. No, we won't blindly have faith, it is just another way of saying don't ask questions, believe what a few people say. Your no better than people in the past the prayed to a sun gun, and your worse because you champion worshiping something that let's children die. We have seen the satanic monster and it is the blind faithful.
A person that does a bad thing is a a bad person. We don't need talking snakes to to see that.
@moby
The kind that loves you.
Aaaaahahahahahaha... sorry, couldn't say that with a straight face.
I'll offer up my opinion that the revolution was done by bad people and those that could have done something were either too scared or wanted to ride the power train.
Since I have read some books that contained some personal entries that seem to support this, my opinion carries just as much weight as Alex's.
When our children ask "Where is God", we can tell them we no longer felt we had need of Him, so we created laws to remove Him from our schools, from our courts, and as a consequence from our hearts.
If Christians have removed God from their hearts, don't try to blame anyone else.
because we are either too stupid to teach them about morals ourselves, or we had too many children and don't have the time and need the rest of society to take over and teach our children about our own particular brand of religon.
Funny how this all powerful something-or-other can be removed so easily.
“Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened." Since then I have spent well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
Chad,
If you could have prevented this horrible slaughter would you have done it or would you have just sat around and watched the massacre of children like God did?
Ohhhh so one person's opinion is fact as long as it matches your opinion.
Damocles nails Chad's modus operandi on the first go.
Yeah and then I fail by posting in the wrong place. Ah well, balance in all things, yes? 🙂
What kind of fvcked up azzhole is this god who lets children be slaughtered because some people "forgot about" him?
*sigh*
Posting in the right spot is so overrated. 🙁
@Observer "If you could have prevented this horrible slaughter would you have done it or would you have just sat around and watched the massacre of children like God did?"
=>if your wife whom you loved, leaves you, starts drinking, drives drunk and kills herself, how would you feel if someone accused you of sitting around and watching?
And the Fartful Dodger strikes again!
Do you not even realize how stupid that analogy is, Chad? Do you seriously not see how stupidly you argue your position? Seriously, the only conclusion I can come to is that you're an atheist posting the dumbest sh!t you can think of to make christians look bad.
False analogy, and no, I'm not going to explain how. If you can't figure it out on your own, I pity you and your miniscule intellect.
Chad,
So are you going to answer the question? Your attempt at diversion DIDN'T WORK.
What a horrible, horrible an-alogy. I mean.... that's just the worst ever. Your hands should just spontaneously beat the crap out of you for being forced to type that.
So no one can explain how the analogy fails 🙂
didnt realize it was so good, someone usually tries some crazy explanation as to why.
Observer
Chad,
Sorry you've missed my question 2 times. Here it is:
If you could have prevented this horrible slaughter would you have done it or would you have just sat around and watched the massacre of children like God did?
Let me put it to you this way, Chad, it was so fvcking stupid that I'd rather you think it's good and keep using it on others. It's a fine example of how retarded christian "reasoning" is. Do you think you could post it most every day like you do all that other crap that has been soundly refuted with superior argument over and over and over? Cause that would be awesome.
Why, oh why, can't god get any followers that understand how logic and argumentation works? Why are they all so stupid and blind?
So, Fartful Dodger, your omniscient, omnipotent god is just a cuckold with a limp dick? Is that pretty much it?
sorry observer, you must have somehow missed the response:
=>if your wife whom you loved, leaves you, starts drinking, drives drunk and kills herself, how would you feel if someone accused you of sitting around and watching?
I'll explain:
The wife in my example, is humanity
The husband is the God of Israel
Just like the wife, humanity went off on it's own, got drunk, and killed itself
and the husband, who dearly loved the wife, is forced (because of the choice the wife made) to watch.
see?
@chad
Fail.
If I am an all powerful husband, I would do what it takes to keep my wife from killing herself. I would imagine that I, as the husband that can do anything, could find a painless method of preventing it.
I find it amusing to no end that I, as the non-believer, am willing to let your deity be all it can be while you, as the believer, want to limit it in every possible way.
Your wife left you.
are you going to coerce her? Make her stay?
Dont you respect her free will enough to allow her to make the choices she wants to make, regardless of your opinion of them?
by Chad
I hear Jim Carrey is planning to star in a sequel, based on Chad's life: Eternal Sunshine of the Thoughtless Mind
@ join us
Shouldn't that be Brain?
@chad
Ahhh so those kids decided to die of their own free will?
oops, yes we wanted to hire a professional to do the credits, but Chad wanted to do the whole show himself
those poor children were in the back of the car, screaming as mom drove off the cliff..
They, like all children, have to live with the tragic consequences of the parents actions.
Your god isn't powerless, Chard, at least according to you. Didn't he work miracles? Why doesn't he do so now?
Chad, it's a bit stupid trying to dictate to us what choices of god's would be indecent. He's already pulled the most indecent move of all: He made a universe CAPABLE of corruption. And he offered that possibility in the form of "low hanging fruit" so that just one person, without enough knowledge, with just one mistake could rot the whole "good" thing.
And now you're implying that god shouldn't do something in his omnipotence because of YOUR sense of decency? Puh-lease.
Chad wants us to believe that god would be wrong to offer convincing proof to us because he was so right to do it in Doubting Thomas's case.
Ah so the murder of the kids is fine as punishment against the parents. Nothing screams 'I love you' more than whacking kids.
Biblical morality at its finest.
"punishment" ?
how do you get that?
is the husband punishing those kids?
not at all, not sure where you got that from.
Those kids died simply, and for no other reason, than the tragic choice the mother made.
no punishment...
So your god is not more powerful than a human? Then why call him a god? Why worship him?
If the husband extends freedom of choice to the wife, It doesnt matter how all powerful the husband is.
With that freedom comes the responsibility of choices and tragedy of having to live with consequences.
Chad, if you would let children die instead of doing something within your power to stop it, just say so. What's so hard about answering a question honestly with a "yes" or "no?" You christians have the most ridiculous way of apologizing for the abject stupidity of your god.
All I hear endlessly from atheists is this agonized cry of WHY???
Why? because we made our choices, and God respects that
Why? because God is not going to coerce us.
You need to realize that the tragedy here is that the wife didnt stay with the husband.
The husband would have taken care of the wife and protected her.
But, the good news is, the husband wants the wife back!!!! He was unwilling to simply let the wife run off, and He has pursued her relentlessly.
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1
What.The.Fvck.
Can you imagine that TV interview with the bereaved husband?
'Yeah I could have stopped her, it was totally in my power, but I let her die and now I want her back so I can maybe kill her of her own free will again in case she needs to be taught another lesson'. *pause for camera close-up of the fake tear trickling down his cheek* 'I love you honey, so much that I killed you'.
A normal husband might be brought up on charges.
And again, it's an implied threat... the wife left and got killed. Ooooo you don't want to be killed by your spouse do ya? Better do what he says or there will be severe consequences. 'I beat her out of love for her' is not something that a jury would look favorably upon.
Chad wouldn't save the children.
Atheists and agnostics wouldn't hesitate if they could save the kids from the massacre.
It's a riot to hear Christians pretend they have good morals and atheists and agnostics don't.
We've just seen what Christian morality is.
Dammit all!!
Stupid posting in the wrong place and whatnot. Grrrr, I say, grrrrrrr.
Christians: Stupid, Since 1AD
Christians: Bringin' You Some of That Ol' Timey Hate, Since 1AD
so, how would you have saved those children?
free will comes with terrific responsibilities.
"When our children ask "Where is God", we can tell them we no longer felt we had need of Him, so we created laws to remove Him from our schools, from our courts, and as a consequence from our hearts."
Yep, we have fired him for not doing anything useful. And no, he does not get to be all powerful and helpless in how he creates and manages the world at the same time.
And that is all too bad, because there are a lot of people in religious organizations that do really good things, but doing a good thing or bad thing does not make a belief true or false.