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December 27th, 2012
07:20 PM ET

Hobby Lobby faces millions in fines for bucking Obamacare

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Washington (CNN)– Craft store giant Hobby Lobby is bracing for a $1.3 million a day fine beginning January 1 for noncompliance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, dubbed Obamacare.

The company opposes providing some contraceptives to employees through its company health care plan on religious grounds, saying some contraceptive products, like the morning after pill, equate to abortion.

After failing to receive temporary relief from the fines from the Supreme Court, Hobby Lobby announced late Thursday through its attorneys that it "will continue to provide health insurance to all qualified employees. To remain true to their faith, it is not their intention, as a company, to pay for abortion-inducing drugs."

In September, Hobby Lobby and affiliate Mardel, a Christian bookstore chain, sued the federal government for violating their owners' religious freedom and ability to freely exercise their religion.

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"All they're asking for is a narrow exemption from the law that says they don't have to provide drugs they believe cause abortions," Hobby Lobby attorney Kyle Duncan, a general counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, told CNN affiliate KFOR in November. "Our basic point is the government can't put a corporation in the position of choosing between its faith and following the law."

The lawsuit says the companies' religious beliefs prohibit them from providing insurance coverage for abortion inducing drugs. As of August 2012, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act requires employer-provided health care plans to provide "all Food and Drug Administration approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures, and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity," according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Churches and houses of worship are exempt from the regulation and a narrow exemption was added for nonprofit religious employers whose employees "primarily share its religious tenets" and who "primarily serve persons who share its religious tenets."

In the face of that opposition, the Department of Health and Human Services tweaked its original rule in February to require health insurers, not employers, to cover the cost of contraception coverage, reasoning that would prevent religious groups from having to finance such coverage. Critics have argued that exemption for nonprofits is far too narrow and a host of nonprofit religious groups have sued the administration over the regulations.

The Internal Revenue Service regulations now say that a group health care plan that "fails to comply" with the Affordable Care Act is subject to an "excise tax" of "$100 per day per individual for each day the plan does not comply with the requirement." It remains unclear how the IRS would implement and collect the excise tax.

The Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, based Hobby Lobby chain has more than 500 stores that employ 13,000 employees across 42 states, and takes in $2.6 billion in sales. The company's attorneys say January begins a new health care plan year for Hobby Lobby and that excise tax from the IRS would amount to $1.3 million a day.

Hobby Lobby is owned by CEO and founder David Green and members of his family. "The foundation of our business has been, and will continue to be strong values, and honoring the Lord in a manner consistent with biblical principles," a statement on the Hobby Lobby website reads, adding that one outgrowth of that is the store is closed on Sundays to give its employees a day of rest. Each year the company also takes out full-page ads in numerous newspapers proclaiming its faith at Christmastime and on Independence Day.

The store is not formally connected to any denomination, but the Green family supports numerous Christian ministries and is behind the Green Collection, one of the largest private collections of biblical antiquities in the world. The family plans to permanently house the collection in Washington at a museum set to open in 2016.

On Friday, attorneys for Hobby Lobby petitioned the Supreme Court to intervene and provide temporary relief from the the fines until the case was decided by the U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver.

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Wednesday evening, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who handles emergency appeals from the 10th Circuit Court, said the company failed to meet "the demanding standard for the extraordinary relief," and that it could continue to pursue its challenge in lower courts and return to the higher court, if necessary, after a final judgment.

"Hobby Lobby will continue their appeal before the 10th Circuit. The Supreme Court merely decided not to get involved in the case at this time," Duncan said in a statement.

A spokesperson for the Justice Department declined to comment on the high court's move.

White House officials have long said they believe they have struck an appropriate compromise between religious exemptions and women's health. The White House has not commented specifically on the Hobby Lobby case.

"It's just so sad that Hobby Lobby is facing this choice. What company, even a successful family owned business like Hobby Lobby, how can they afford the government $1.3 million in fines every day? It's just really absurd that government is not giving on this," said Maureen Ferguson, a senior policy adviser for the Catholic Association. Religious liberty groups like hers are watching the Hobby Lobby case closely.

"I am optimistic that these cases will eventually snake their way back up to the Supreme Court and given a full hearing on the merits of the case, I am confident that the Supreme Court will rule in favor of religious liberty," Ferguson said. "But in the meantime there is serious damage being done to businesses like Hobby Lobby and nonprofit charitable organizations."

The Hobby Lobby case is just one of many before the courts over the religious exemption aspects of the law. The case represents by far the biggest for-profit group challenging the health care mandate.

After this piece of the law went into effect in August, religious nonprofits were given "safe harbor" of one year from implementing the law. "In effect, the president is saying we have a year to figure out how to violate our consciences," Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, said in January when the administration announced the move.

Dolan's New York Archdiocese won a victory this month in its legal battle against the administration and the mandate. In May it sued the government in federal court in Brooklyn over the mandate, saying it "unconstitutionally attempts to define the nature of the church's religious ministry and would force religious employers to violate their consciences."

The government moved to have the case dismissed. On December 4, Judge Brian M. Cogan denied the government's motion to dismiss the case, saying the government's promise of changes to how it will implement the law were not enough to merit dismissal. "There is no, 'Trust us, changes are coming' clause in the Constitution," Cogan wrote in in his decision to let the case proceed.

UPDATE: Hobby Lobby's $1.3 million Obamacare loophole

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church and state

soundoff (5,627 Responses)
  1. Phil

    This is a story about government intrusion into personal matters (regulating healthcare is not the same as regulating the speed limit, one is designed to keep you from hurting others, and one is designed to force you to lead a certain lifestyle). If you want to debate the lifestyle comment, please explain why purchasing insurance is a MANDATE for the uninsured individual?

    December 28, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why not?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • JohnQuest

      Because we all pay if a person does not have insurance, hospital have to treat them and the cost is past off to the rest of us, higher premiums, higher cost for services.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • Saraswati

      People trying to feed their kids and pay rent don't always have a choice of where to work. In some towns people are left with a single industry to work at or lose their homes – these people need the same insurance opportunity as everyone else.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why shouldn't health care be mandated? What's wrong with it?

      Why should you be able to avoid buying health insurance and use the ER when you get sick, costing the rest of us millions of dollars?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • Terri

      It is important we are all insured, the rest of us pay for those who are not insured via higher medical bills. If that is not a concern for all of us I am really not sure what is. On the other side of that is just allowing people to die if they don't have insurance or the money to pay for themselves, is that really an option for you?

      December 28, 2012 at 11:07 am |
  2. JohnQuest

    I'm not sure why this is a problem now, I thought female and male contraceptives (tubal ligation, implants, vasectomies and the like) were always a part of all health care plans. were they not paying for these services all a long?

    December 28, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • Phil

      Some are optional elective surgeries not covered as a matter of law but of choice

      December 28, 2012 at 10:19 am |
    • JohnQuest

      Thanks, some are but tubal ligation and vasectomies were always covered as far as I know.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:22 am |
  3. Robert

    I guess being christan means only one faith. IF they are true christians and not money hungry coporation then they would be closed on Saturdays for those employees who observe a different day of observance. Sunday is NOT the only day that people observe as their religous day. And yes, this problem is one of the many that government healthcare is going to run into. There will be many many more problems to come.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:16 am |
  4. sisi

    It's his company. He should not be forced by the government to provide insurance for abortions if its against his religion. You can choose to work for a company that provides insurance for abortions if you so choose. You can choose not to work there. This company puts food on the tables of hundreds of people!!

    December 28, 2012 at 10:15 am |
    • myweightinwords

      1) No one is being forced to cover abortion, only contraception.
      2) No one is being forced to take contraception against their beliefs.
      3) Many women use pills considered to be contraception for purposes other than contraception.
      4) Women who work for this company are not required to be Christian, nor are Christian women necessarily in agreement with this business owner on the subject.
      5) Jobs are not so easy to find as one might imagine, and you certainly don't quit (or not work for a company) based solely on whether or not your religious/ideological beliefs line up with the owners.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • David

      First, health insurance benefits are a portion of the worker's compensation, their pay. This is because of the innane way health insurance is paid for to get around wage freezes years ago, but the idea that this is the company's money makes no more sense than if the company wanted to dictate what brand of toothpaste you would buy with your salary.

      Second, ask yourself if there would be this same outrage in favor of company's that were led by people of less popular faiths, say Jehovah's Witnesses. Would you say that such a company could deny health insurance coverage for things like blood transfusion or bone marrow transplant because it is against the tenants of their faith?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:46 am |
  5. Dan

    This is one of the huge problems with the government stepping into health care. If the government wants universal healthcare, it should have just raised taxes and have everyone on the same government plan. The problem is that the government instead tries to coerce companies into providing benefits on its behalf. If the government would just provide its own plan, available to all taxpayers, we wouldn't be having these arguments about what companies should be forced to provide. If you want everyone to have health insurance, and have all the benefits you think people should have, then provide it yourself.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Single-payer would be a better alternative, but the conservatives balked.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • dieselbug

      But that's Communism!

      December 28, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Saraswati

      We're basically going to end up with the same system the swiss have. It's the only system in the world as expensive as ours, so won't save us anything, but everyone will be covered. One of the major differences, however, is that the Swiss have much stricter immigration policies which makes figuring out who is "in" and "out" of the system much easier.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • Saraswati

      We're basically going to end up with the same system the Swiss have. It's the only system in the world as expensive as ours, so won't save us anything, but everyone will be covered.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Haha to d-bug! Yeah, that's what the tea-baggers say–because they have no idea what communism is.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:15 am |
    • Hal

      A corporation has no religious beliefs whatsoever.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:50 am |
  6. cc

    It's possible to satisfy Obamacare by self-insuring your employees. Although they might technically be required to pay for contraceptives even under self-insurance if they stay true to their beliefs by hiring only those who refuse to use contraceptives the issue will never come up, right? So maybe the reason they don't do that is because nobody would work for them? Sounds good to me!

    December 28, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • Jim

      So you are OK with religious discrimination?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:18 am |
  7. Karen

    Matthew 5:38-42 ESV

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:04 am |
    • Nathan

      This applies how exactly?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:15 am |
    • Primewonk

      Deuteronomy 22: 28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and ràpes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

      Isn't quoting from your bible fun? Now, you go again. And then I will, OK?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:22 am |
  8. Karen

    1 Corinthians 6:1-20 ESV

    When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:03 am |
    • Dan

      Karen, that verse is regards to an argument between to believers. Paul says they shouldn't go to court, and they should be able to solve it on their own. I don't think it has much to do with a company suing a government on religious grounds.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • Karen

      "Karen, that verse is regards to an argument between to believers.'

      Our gov't has in God We Trust on our money. Most of the people that made the law are Christians. Our president that signed the law is Christian.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why didn't god give you a brain, Karen?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • chi-town

      Karen, the word God does not imply Christian. In God We Trust, not in Jesus. It's obnoxious when people hijack god for their own agenda. Muslims believe in god, as do most religions.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Primewonk

      Leviticus 20:13 If a man has sèxual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death;

      So many great meaningful verses to post, right Karen?

      Hey! How come you fundiot nutters are ignoring these verses?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:28 am |
  9. Jim

    If you have people of different faiths in the company. How can you force your religion on them. I think this guy is a little self centered.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:01 am |
    • Dan

      He's not forcing his religion on anyone. He's just not paying for something. They're still free to get supplemental insurance. They're free to purchase birth control on their own. It's crazy that we think our rights are being violated because someone won't buy us something.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Dan, why shouldn't companies hire 10-year-olds to work on an assembly line? Why can't Hobby Lobby force its employees to work 7 days a week for less than a dollar?

      Bozo.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:19 am |
    • Terri

      I agree Jim, and claiming "the company" has beliefs is ridiculous. The OWNER has beliefs, it is doubtful all his employees hold those beliefs...no different than the Catholic church trying not to provide services to people working in hospitals. It is ridiculous. And the company is not providing abortion services, they are contracting with an insurance company. They are also not forcing anyone to use those services, only their employees who believe it is ok to use it will do so. No one is forced to use "the day after pill".

      December 28, 2012 at 10:47 am |
  10. Laura Eckel

    Good maybe it will finally put those religious fanatics out of business. Let Georgette Pay the fine!.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:00 am |
  11. Tony

    Some folks don't believe in defense spending and war as government-mandated programs either–and in protest have withheld tax money owed to the IRS–and I don't recall them winning their cases. The folks filing these lawsuits in protest of federal health reform–are they willing to go to prison for their beliefs like pacifists have done in the past-or are these lawsuits just "suit & tie" political foot-dragging?

    December 28, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • jane

      Well said. And good question.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:03 am |
    • Terri

      Exactly, none of us agrees with all government spending. That is the beauty of a Republic, even the majority does not always rule. If it did, women would still be considered subhuman, slavery would still be allowed, so many other injustices would continue.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:52 am |
  12. donduvie1985

    The law was made for one thing alone, for the exploitation of those who don't understand it...ObamaCare is the law of the land and corporations can never have the same right as citizens in any modern society.

    December 28, 2012 at 9:58 am |
  13. Read Your Good Book

    Dear Hobby Lobby,
    You need to practice what you preach. RENDER UNTO CEASAR WHAT IS CEASAR'S.

    Now, please continue to sell all your adorable decorations made in China.

    December 28, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • Ben

      ...except that in America, "CEASAR" is the people of the United States (or at least that's how it is supposed to be). The owners of HL are included.

      December 28, 2012 at 12:17 pm |
  14. John

    I thought we lived in a country where there was separation of church and state. But that has been proven wrong so many times. Everybody that pays taxes in the US, is paying for every ones medical care. I don’t like it, but there isn’t anything we can do about it, since our senators & congressional leaders do whatever they want to or don’t want to {fiscal cliff}, and they ALL hide behind the statement that they are doing what is best for us. They pass laws that they or any of their close relatives don’t have to abide by, or deal with. SS, they won’t get SS, because they have a great pension and they really didn’t do much for it, except spend our taxes on things they loved and for their pet projects. I love this country and I am proud to live here, but it is becoming so divided we may never recover from this. I don’t want to pay more taxes, but if that is want it takes to get this country out of this mess, then let’s do it. Remember JFk – “Ask not want your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

    December 28, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • Terri

      This country has always been divided.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:55 am |
  15. rainyday

    Hobby Lobby's customers are overwhelmingly female. From a corporate sales perspective, it does not make sense to publicly fight a service for women – who can, and will, boycott Hobby Lobby. NEVER tick off your target customer. Take a lesson from the Romney campaign and don't consider the needs and opinions of women to be unimportant – especially when you are making your revenue from them. I didn't know HL was against these contraceptives,and as a craft-addict, I will think again about patronizing HL, and go to Jo-anne or Michael's instead. Perhaps someone should 'Pin' a boycott HL on Pinterest and start sharing it.

    December 28, 2012 at 9:56 am |
    • Nancy

      There is no way HL is going to stay afloat when having to pay 1.3 mil. a day in fines. Money will dictate this, not women rights. Christians still discriminate against women even today.

      December 28, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • John

      So rainyday – it's nice to know that HL – according to you can't have an opinion about what they feel they should and should pay for medical care. – maybe people should boycott reading any of your posts. It’s funny how people infer that “I am allowed to have my opinion about things but others can’t – unless it agrees with me.”

      December 28, 2012 at 10:02 am |
    • Too Funny

      Health Insurance coverage is a benefit to the employee. The owners religious beliefs should not come into play. This was a stupid move by Hobby Lobby because most people believe that companies should pay for health insurance, most people believe women should have access to contraception and many of those people vote with their wallet.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Terri

      Exactly, Hobby Lobby just lost my business as well. I shop there a lot but will not any longer.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:57 am |
  16. blf83

    To quote Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does." Fine them – right put of business, if necessary.

    December 28, 2012 at 9:56 am |
  17. Freedom

    Welcome to the world of Dictator Obama - Hobby Lobby has always provided healthcare for its emplyess, but that wasn't good enough for Obama. He clearly won't be happy until he forces his perversion of abortion on everyone, and in the end, he will cost thousands of Americans their jobs (if Hobby Lobby goes out of business, the blood rests on Obama's hands alone)! Great job little Hitler!

    December 28, 2012 at 9:54 am |
    • blf83

      No dictator Obama – your Tea Party Court said it's legal. Get over it.

      December 28, 2012 at 9:57 am |
    • WASP

      @"freedom": hey idiot is obama forcing the fracking pill down your throat?
      if not then shut your fracking pie hole.
      it is only making certain that the companies cover their employees that wish for that type of coverage, if you don't want that plan then DON'T GET IT!

      December 28, 2012 at 9:57 am |
    • ricardo1968

      Actually, this is the will of the people of the United States. That's what this is. If you want religious based healthcare, you can move to Pakistan.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:01 am |
    • dieselbug

      Don't let facts get in the way of your arguments, Freedom. This law is to prevent religious persecution by employers on their employees – it's nothing to do with imposition of abortion by the government. Turn off the fat one on the radio and seek out information yourself. The truth will set you free!

      December 28, 2012 at 10:01 am |
    • Seraphim01

      Perversion of abortion, eh? Because doctors are just lining up in rows with drolling mouths and twitching hands to doll these out. People like you are what is wrong with this country.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • Frank

      "it is only making certain that the companies cover their employees that wish for that type of coverage, if you don't want that plan then DON'T GET IT!" Due to the cost of health insurance premiums, employees may not have a choice but to enroll in employer subsidized health insurance plans.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Nathan

      Hitler? Really? What are you, three years old?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:24 am |
  18. JudgeDB

    Freedom of religion isn't the freedom to force your religious beliefs on others. Just because you ignorantly believe that the morning after pill = abortion doesn't mean that you are right and it doesn't give you the right to deny other people the freedom to not believe in your religious ideology. Hobby Lobby is legally not allowed to deny someone a job because they aren't Christian or whatever religion Hobby Lobby thinks is the one true path. Why should they be allowed to pick and choose what health benefits employees get based solely on religious beliefs? Are they going to deny people from receiving custom grown organ replacements because its "not part of God's plan"?

    These same people would be screaming bloody murder if some Muslim owned business tried to pull the same stunt.

    December 28, 2012 at 9:54 am |
    • blf83

      Amen! Well said.

      December 28, 2012 at 9:57 am |
    • dieselbug

      +1

      December 28, 2012 at 10:02 am |
    • Ben

      "Why should they be able to pick and choose health benefits......?"

      Simple Answer: because Hobby Lobby is paying for the benefits.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:03 am |
    • Phil

      Too many posters here want to promote their own beliefs without first debating the facts. They are:

      HL provides an insurance benefit because they believe as employers that is a moral obligation. Before the ACA they had no obligation to do so
      As part of the benefit (not legally bound to give prior to ACA) HL did not provide for contraception benefits. No one sued or complained because they had no legal standing to do so. Presume if it bothered you enough you quit. Employees obviously found a way to get what they wanted if they needed it.
      HL was free to make this decision

      Post ACA the decision is no longer the companies and they object to being told that if they want to continue to provide insurance as a moral obligation that they must provide a new component they object to.
      Government intervention upset a working solution
      If HL is willing to pay 400 million in fines for their beliefs perhaps its important to them.

      Ok now lets debate these issues

      December 28, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • cnnmembuh

      Citizens in a "free" society are free to apply or not apply for work at Hobby Lobby. There are terms associated with employment with every organization. It's the same if you opt for employment within a religious organization. This would have been a narrow exception which would have caused no harm to the general public or to the monstrosity which is Obamacare, the largest tax increase in the history of mankind. But BO's administration will see to it that the masses shall comply with its directives.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • JudgeDB

      Corporations in a society that protects the freedom to practice religion as well as the freedom from religion are free to leave the country if they cannot operate under these conditions.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:43 am |
  19. Wootings

    Stupid should hurt. And the very definition of stupid is believing in something for which there is no evidence – i.e. religion. Hobby Lobby deserves to go bankrupt over this, fast, as a warning to others. We have to stop tolerating stupidity – especially when it comes to important issues like women's health and reproductive rights.

    December 28, 2012 at 9:52 am |
  20. Portland tony

    So-called religion trumps good business practice. Insurance companies know the cost of preventive care in no way exceeds the costs associated with child birth and prenatal care.

    December 28, 2012 at 9:51 am |
    • Ben

      Does the pragmatism of the "lowest cost" trump a human life?

      December 28, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • tallulah13

      Ben? Did you forget that women are human as well?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:01 am |
    • dieselbug

      @Ben – is that the human life your ilk believe is "on their own" after they are born, whether their parents can afford to bring the child up or not? The same life that will have no safety net because you want to strip the "Welfare State" so there is no support system for them? Yeah, sure, you're "pro-life" alright, Hypocrite.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • Ben

      No Tullulah, I did not "forget". In fact, it's a resonable estimate that 50% of children inside the womb, who might be saved from an abortion are female.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • Nancy

      "No Tullulah, I did not "forget". In fact, it's a resonable estimate that 50% of children inside the womb, who might be saved from an abortion are female."

      So Ben what is your solution for all the millions children that will be born unwanted, left in foster care or on the streets. Most of these children end up adding to the crime rate, especially murder. When abortion was illegal the murder rate was the highest it has ever been.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      There aren't any "women" inside a uterus, moron. The woman is the one who have the choice, not you.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • Dan

      @dieselbug Maybe you should go tell all the world's poor that their lives aren't worth living, because they don't have a lot of money. Apparently that's what you think makes for a quality life.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Dan, maybe YOU should ask them if their lives would be better if they had decent jobs, food, housing and clothing. What do you suppose they'd say?

      Get over it, dear. You don't have any say in the matter of choice. You aren't ever going to face an unplanned pregnancy. The only say you have in the matter is to make sure you never impregnate anyone. Do you wear a rubber every time, honey?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Ben, you do understand that far more fetilizations are spontaneously terminated than ever are willfully terminated, right? What do you think God is doing in all those cases that he suddenly can't handle when it's done because woman needs to make this choice?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • Ben

      @Nancy: Are you willing to take poor kids on the streets and foster homes and execute them because they are a burden to society? If your argument is based on pragmatism, you must answer this question affimitively. If such a thing seems uncomfortable for you, then I suggest you re-evaluate your position.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ben, are you willing to pay the cost of pre-natal care and childbirth for an unmarried teenager?

      When was the last time you did that?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:23 am |
    • Ben

      @ Tom Tom: .."are you willing to pay the cost.....when was the last time you did that?"

      Tom, I'm glad you asked. The last time I did that was December 15th, which is our monthly draw to our local pregnancy support center. If you are interested in helping teens in crisis pregancy situations, then this is a great way to help.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:43 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.