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December 27th, 2012
07:20 PM ET

Hobby Lobby faces millions in fines for bucking Obamacare

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Washington (CNN)– Craft store giant Hobby Lobby is bracing for a $1.3 million a day fine beginning January 1 for noncompliance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, dubbed Obamacare.

The company opposes providing some contraceptives to employees through its company health care plan on religious grounds, saying some contraceptive products, like the morning after pill, equate to abortion.

After failing to receive temporary relief from the fines from the Supreme Court, Hobby Lobby announced late Thursday through its attorneys that it "will continue to provide health insurance to all qualified employees. To remain true to their faith, it is not their intention, as a company, to pay for abortion-inducing drugs."

In September, Hobby Lobby and affiliate Mardel, a Christian bookstore chain, sued the federal government for violating their owners' religious freedom and ability to freely exercise their religion.

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"All they're asking for is a narrow exemption from the law that says they don't have to provide drugs they believe cause abortions," Hobby Lobby attorney Kyle Duncan, a general counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, told CNN affiliate KFOR in November. "Our basic point is the government can't put a corporation in the position of choosing between its faith and following the law."

The lawsuit says the companies' religious beliefs prohibit them from providing insurance coverage for abortion inducing drugs. As of August 2012, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act requires employer-provided health care plans to provide "all Food and Drug Administration approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures, and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity," according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Churches and houses of worship are exempt from the regulation and a narrow exemption was added for nonprofit religious employers whose employees "primarily share its religious tenets" and who "primarily serve persons who share its religious tenets."

In the face of that opposition, the Department of Health and Human Services tweaked its original rule in February to require health insurers, not employers, to cover the cost of contraception coverage, reasoning that would prevent religious groups from having to finance such coverage. Critics have argued that exemption for nonprofits is far too narrow and a host of nonprofit religious groups have sued the administration over the regulations.

The Internal Revenue Service regulations now say that a group health care plan that "fails to comply" with the Affordable Care Act is subject to an "excise tax" of "$100 per day per individual for each day the plan does not comply with the requirement." It remains unclear how the IRS would implement and collect the excise tax.

The Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, based Hobby Lobby chain has more than 500 stores that employ 13,000 employees across 42 states, and takes in $2.6 billion in sales. The company's attorneys say January begins a new health care plan year for Hobby Lobby and that excise tax from the IRS would amount to $1.3 million a day.

Hobby Lobby is owned by CEO and founder David Green and members of his family. "The foundation of our business has been, and will continue to be strong values, and honoring the Lord in a manner consistent with biblical principles," a statement on the Hobby Lobby website reads, adding that one outgrowth of that is the store is closed on Sundays to give its employees a day of rest. Each year the company also takes out full-page ads in numerous newspapers proclaiming its faith at Christmastime and on Independence Day.

The store is not formally connected to any denomination, but the Green family supports numerous Christian ministries and is behind the Green Collection, one of the largest private collections of biblical antiquities in the world. The family plans to permanently house the collection in Washington at a museum set to open in 2016.

On Friday, attorneys for Hobby Lobby petitioned the Supreme Court to intervene and provide temporary relief from the the fines until the case was decided by the U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver.

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Wednesday evening, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who handles emergency appeals from the 10th Circuit Court, said the company failed to meet "the demanding standard for the extraordinary relief," and that it could continue to pursue its challenge in lower courts and return to the higher court, if necessary, after a final judgment.

"Hobby Lobby will continue their appeal before the 10th Circuit. The Supreme Court merely decided not to get involved in the case at this time," Duncan said in a statement.

A spokesperson for the Justice Department declined to comment on the high court's move.

White House officials have long said they believe they have struck an appropriate compromise between religious exemptions and women's health. The White House has not commented specifically on the Hobby Lobby case.

"It's just so sad that Hobby Lobby is facing this choice. What company, even a successful family owned business like Hobby Lobby, how can they afford the government $1.3 million in fines every day? It's just really absurd that government is not giving on this," said Maureen Ferguson, a senior policy adviser for the Catholic Association. Religious liberty groups like hers are watching the Hobby Lobby case closely.

"I am optimistic that these cases will eventually snake their way back up to the Supreme Court and given a full hearing on the merits of the case, I am confident that the Supreme Court will rule in favor of religious liberty," Ferguson said. "But in the meantime there is serious damage being done to businesses like Hobby Lobby and nonprofit charitable organizations."

The Hobby Lobby case is just one of many before the courts over the religious exemption aspects of the law. The case represents by far the biggest for-profit group challenging the health care mandate.

After this piece of the law went into effect in August, religious nonprofits were given "safe harbor" of one year from implementing the law. "In effect, the president is saying we have a year to figure out how to violate our consciences," Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, said in January when the administration announced the move.

Dolan's New York Archdiocese won a victory this month in its legal battle against the administration and the mandate. In May it sued the government in federal court in Brooklyn over the mandate, saying it "unconstitutionally attempts to define the nature of the church's religious ministry and would force religious employers to violate their consciences."

The government moved to have the case dismissed. On December 4, Judge Brian M. Cogan denied the government's motion to dismiss the case, saying the government's promise of changes to how it will implement the law were not enough to merit dismissal. "There is no, 'Trust us, changes are coming' clause in the Constitution," Cogan wrote in in his decision to let the case proceed.

UPDATE: Hobby Lobby's $1.3 million Obamacare loophole

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church and state

soundoff (5,627 Responses)
  1. Dixie

    People can still go out and get the inexpensive medication on their own dime. There is no problem here.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • Primewonk

      That isn't what the law says though, is it?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • Ashlin

      The fact that the law DOES say otherwise is the problem.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What are you talking about, Ashlin?

      December 28, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • William Demuth

      HA!

      The VAST majority of people on both welfare and food stamps are Christian

      The biggest debtor states are the most Christian

      You guys are mooches, have been for two millenium

      December 28, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • Ashlin

      I'm talking about how I believe that, regardless of my religious beliefs, it should not be my responsibility to ensure you are provided birth control. If you want to find a plan that does, then by all means, its your own personal choice. My wife works for Hobby Lobby. We choose not to use their insurance because it does not cover birth control.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ashlin, regardless of your beliefs, the law now requires employers to offer an insurance plan that DOES cover contraceptives. What you "believe" is immaterial. The law has been passed. The company must obey it.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • jw

      The Law also allowed slavery at one time. By your reasoning, it should have went on uncontested. Because, as you say, "The law has been passed. The company (people) must obey." You would have to concede for the sake of this argument, that some laws are good and some laws are bad. And it is our right as American citizens to contest the laws that we do not agree with, whether you agree or not.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Should have went on"? Are you for real? Please tell me you don't have a high school diploma, you moronic ass wipe.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:09 pm |
    • jw

      Wow, so glad the grammar nazi is here to point out such trivial matters. You must really hate your life.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, actually I don't. I love my life. I dislike ass wipes like you, who aspire to have two brain cells and whose reach exceeds their grasp.

      When you actually possess the ability to get your high school diploma and write like an adult, I'll be happy to accord you a degree of respect. Until then, you moron, you don't get a say in the reproductive lives of women. Shut up and blow.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
  2. ted

    I hope and pray that Hobby Lobby does not pay any federal tax. Some of that money goes to providing Afghan woman with drone strike abortions.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • jw

      you forgot to take your medication this morning.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:03 am |
  3. Sam

    If Hobby Lobby refuses to comply and is fined 1.3 million a day, it won't take long to bankrupt them. How will the feds explain to 13,000 people that they no longer have a job or any health insurance at all?.It's a fine mess that our government has gotten itself into.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • ER

      Seriously? They explain it like this. 'Your employer did not follow the law'. Hobby Lobby is just greedy, hiding behind religion. So sad.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • ted

      If by "Government" you mean "Hobby Lobby"

      December 28, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • god?

      They better get on board then.

      Go pray to your magic man in the sky on your own time. If you want to run a business in this country you follow the rules like everybody else.

      THEY aren't paying for the medications, the insurance company is. Do the work of god on your own time.

      10 – You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
      9 – You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
      8 – You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
      7 – Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Al lah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
      6 – You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
      5 – You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
      4 – You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs – though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
      3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some id iot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christian
      2 – You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
      1 – You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, catholicism and church history – but still call yourself a Christian

      December 28, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • William Demuth

      Excellent.

      Break them.

      Just a cult that sells Chinese chachkis to chubbie fundies!

      Good Bye and good riddance.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Sam

      @ER. Does it make sense to punish 13,000 people trying to survive hard times?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Sam

      @God?– Settle down there and try answering the question.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Then their employer should follow the law and make sure it can continue to operate. Simple as that. Just like any other company in any nation, they have to obey the laws of that nation.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Bruce

      No one cares. Greed can only be committed by companies, not by upstanding ladies like Sandra Fluke who need thousands in aide from the rest of us to buy contraception. No greed there, don't judge her either. Judge companies.

      At the end of the day its all of us paying for this mess, thats where the money ALWAYS comes from. Not Hobby Lobby or any insurance providers.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • Sam

      @Tom– I was posing a "what if" question. I'll leave it to you to pontificate about what the company should do.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • jw

      The idea of a "principle" is lost on these people. Absolute truth doesn't exist right? Murder seems wrong to you but not to Adam Lanza, so is he wrong? Because morals are relative, isn't that right?

      December 28, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, you weren't, Sam. What you're doing is pretending that it's the government's fault if Hobby Lobby goes under. It isn't, and the government DOES have an interest in making sure that affordable health care is provided by all corporations, regardless of the beliefs of the owners.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • Sam

      @Tom– Regardless of where the fault lies, should the 13,000 and their families have to pay the price?

      December 28, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why not? When a sweatshop is forced to close, the employees are out of work. Same principle.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And really, Sam, what would be YOUR solution?

      Should Hobby Lobby be permitted to hire 5-year-olds? Refuse to hire blacks? Jews? Why should the company use the excuse that it disagrees with a law and therefore should be allowed to flout it?

      December 28, 2012 at 11:21 am |
    • Sammy

      @Tom– Now you've set a whole legion of straw men on my trail.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And yet you have no argument to refute a single point.

      December 28, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
    • Nathan

      I'd explain it by saying that your employer, Hobby Lobby, failed to follow the law and was given ample opportunity, which they chose not to employ, to begin doing so.

      There's nothing that would need "explaining" in this situation.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:16 pm |
  4. Brian

    Pathetic. What I'm reading here, from the self-proclaimed "tolerant" crowd, is plain pathetic. Supporting, advocating tyranny from our government. Government from the government, by the government, for the government...and useless idiot sheep. You guys won't be satisfied until the golden goose is publicly hanged in the village square, will you? You don't deserve freedom.

    Let the piranhas feed now.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • William Demuth

      Brian

      Religion is slavery

      If you believe in bulls#@t you can never be free.

      You are just an indoctrinated drone, mentally subservient to a cabal of con men and pedophilles

      December 28, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • Brian

      Billy, you don't know one thing about me, and your ignorance demonstrates your intolerance. I believe you're incapable of making a point that won't serve to reinforce mine.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • jw

      Well said Brian.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You WOULD think that, wouldn't you, jw/derp?

      Brian, you're a bonehead.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • Nathan

      Nope.

      This is not tyranny. And do remember that Hobby Lobby is a CORPORATION, not a person. Besides, the Founder incorporated specifically to avoid personal liability in case something goes wrong, so he has no grounds to then try to re-inject personal , non-business desires back into the company so as to force those onto his employees. Hobby Lobby has people of all different backgrounds, att.itudes, beliefs, and religions and he cannot use his position as CEO to make religiously moral choices on behalf of his entire staff. Nor is it acceptable for Hobby Lobby to sign up for all the benefits of being a US corporation and then willfully ignore the parts of the law they don't like or wish to abide by. If you are a corporate ent.ity, this is the law.

      December 31, 2012 at 9:23 am |
  5. Dan l

    Why do we have to have this argument every time ANY legislation is passed. Somebody somewhere who believes in wood fairies will say it is against something in their cult. idiots.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:47 am |
  6. jw

    Wow, so much religious intolerance from you people.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • William Demuth

      Just wait.

      We got four more years to decimate your cult.

      Drive you yahoo's back into the Bronze Age.

      Tax the churches, feed the people.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • jw

      and what cult would that be?

      December 28, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • derp

      "And what cult would that be"

      Christianity.

      December 28, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
  7. Danimal

    I wonder why they think they are above the law just because they are religious. Sorry, it doesn't work that way in America. Follow the rules or get out.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • MacV

      So another company leaves. Great, lose more jobs. Someone please tell me how this law is going to make companies want to hire or want to bring any business to the U.S.? You decry the lack of manufacturing jobs, but think Obamacare won;t cause job loss, or will bring jobs back to the U.S.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:05 am |
  8. jw

    No one is forcing you to work there. So, no they are not forcing their religion on you.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      They don't get to be exempt from the law. That is the bottom line. If Hobby Lobby doesn't like the law of the US, it can relocate to another country.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • JudgeDB

      No one is forcing Hobby Lobby to operate in the US. They can follow the law, pay the fine, or get the eff out.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • jw

      The Law also allowed slavery at one time. By your reasoning, slavery should have went on uncontested.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "should have went." No comment is needed here to show the poster is a complete and utter imbecile.

      December 28, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
    • derp

      Nothing else needed to show that Tom is a jack@ss. But I fear there will be many more examples in the future.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So you have nothing, then, derp? Thanks for playing.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I guess derp thinks that "should have went" is good writing. What a shock.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • derp

      Thanks for playing? You act as if I am done? Silly stupid girl, playing is the whole point. You don't think there is anything to actually win on here do you?

      Oh my gosh you do think there is don't you? How tragic.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Are you brain-dead? If I did, I'd have stopped posting when you first showed up.

      You lost with your first key-stroke, you idiot.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • derp

      I love it when people try to "win" just by declaring. Please keep going girl, you amuse me with your foolish ways.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
    • derp

      There is nothing real to win on here. There is nothing real to lose on here.

      I have gained a few laughs at your expense. There are a few on here that have added insight to the topic of faith and religion. You are not one of them however since any argument you tend to make has the bad habit of being laced with pointless insults.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, you're the one responding, dearie. If it's of no consequence, why not drop it?

      December 28, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • derp

      Mostly because it's fun you stupid girl.

      Enjoy the last bits of your year, hopefully you will be just as amusing next year as you have been this year.

      "Yet once more, O ye Laurels, and once more
      Ye Myrtles brown, with Ivy never-sear,
      I com to pluck your Berries harsh and crude,
      And with forc'd fingers rude,
      Shatter your leaves before the mellowing year."

      December 28, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sweetie, you can post all the quotes you wish. It won't make anyone love you. Better luck next time.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, I meant to say Lycidas, not "Sweetie.' My bad.

      Go jack off now, dear.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • derp

      Stupid girl, who requires love? Not the one where that quote comes from.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Never knew an idiot who would call someone 57 years old "girl." But there's an ass hole for every post, I guess.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • derp

      hahaha...see...you are just as much fun as before. Hit a nerve and watch you get all mad. That was a few minutes well wasted. It's fun when those that think they are so intelligent get fooled so easily.

      Be well and think on all this. Try just giving your point of view without the insults next year. Maybe more people would be receptive to your arguments.

      Or heck, stay the same and get the same results. Insanity may agree with you.

      Buh-bye 🙂

      December 28, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Run away, Lice. Nice to see you haven't improved at all.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • derp

      "But there's an ass hole for every post, I guess."

      You are ample evidence of that.

      Wait? How old? Oh my...your collection of comments on here have taken a much more tragic perspective. I would expect better from someone of your advanced age than comments that would be categorized as "stupid girl" comments.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Just in case you're still smoldering after that beating, Lycidas, you might want to consider something: do you really think I'm upset? Why?

      Are you not familiar with drama?

      One would think you'd be more adept at recognizing it.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And now you're attempting to feign ignorance as to my age?

      How stupid are you?

      December 28, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
    • derp

      Run away? From what?

      Don't worry stupid girl, I am sure I can make you look a bigger fool later sometime. Though with all your life experience behind you...I am sure you can make yourself look a fool quite easily without my help.

      😉

      December 28, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Funny how you threaten to leave and then can't tear yourself away. I suppose you must crave attention no matter from whence it comes.

      Sad.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, I'm quite sure I can. Why do you seem to be unable to leave and allow your point to prove itself?

      Insecure, I suppose. Most short men are.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      By the way, why did you feel it necessary to change your name again? Scared?

      December 28, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • derp

      "Just in case you're still smoldering after that beating"

      Are you on something? Have a mental illness? Because you are imagining some wild stuff.

      Actually I did not recall your age. If it was mentioned in the past I either missed it or decided it wasn't that important to remember. It is sad that someone of your years thinks they cannot argue their points on here without the insults. Just as it is sad that you can't really take it when it's done to you. That's why you keep coming back.

      You didn't forget that there is nothing to win or lose on here right? There are really no beatings either stupid girl. No one really can win when all we are really doing is throwing insults about. Maybe if we were having a discussion on something like faith or the topic of this thread but considering this all came about from you trying to "win" an argument on a grammar technicality..you don't have much to stand on.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If that were so, you wouldn't still be responding. Yet here you are.

      Apparently, I've hit a nerve. Otherwise, you'd have left.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
    • derp

      No reason beyond I like changing my username from time to time. It's fun..duh.

      After all, I don't have any kind of odd attachment to any username as you seem to.

      Ok....playtime with tom is over for now. Maybe I'll be on later, hopefully you'll have some intelligent arguments to comment on. We can hope at least.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Just for your edification, dear, if the noun is "someone" then you should use "his" or "her", not "their." I'm sure you'll argue common usage, but you'll still be wrong. Of course, it doesn't matter to you, since no one wins.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I don't believe you, Lycidas. I think you change your name because you're afraid. Of what? Who knows? You're a paranoid little twit, I suppose.

      Go, stay, come back, drop dead. Do you think anyone cares?

      December 28, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • jw

      Piper, I'm not surprised you avoided responding to my point. Diversion a common tactic for those who lack the intelligence to engage in logical discussion.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What point? Did you have one?

      December 28, 2012 at 3:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I guess I assumed an as swipe who didn't know that "should have went" was laughably incorrect would have no point.

      Oh, wait....

      December 28, 2012 at 3:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Get back to me when you get your GED, jw/derp.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • jw

      Piper, perhaps you would be so gracious as to overlook my petty grammatical error and actually address the point intelligently.

      The Law also allowed slavery at one time. By your reasoning, slavery should have gone on uncontested.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:18 pm |
    • jw

      Actually, I'm quite educated and successful and have nothing to prove to you. I think it's more telling that you choose to nit-pick people's grammar instead of engaging in a logical debate. IT'S a little pathetic.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Get a clue, moron: perhaps making abortion illegal should have gone on, too. It didn't, for the same basic reason that slavery didn't. People realized it was not legal under the Const itution. They woke up. They and the courts recognized that born people had rights, and that those people included women and blacks. They realized that the principles involved were the same as for white men. That they have rights. That those rights are not cancelled out by skin color or gender or pregnancy. They figured it out.

      When will you?

      December 28, 2012 at 4:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And as for your claim that you're "educated?" Bullsh!t.

      Times ten. No one who has an education past that of an eighth-grader says "would have went." NO ONe.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:26 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And jw/derp? As for your "point?" You don't have one. Never did. You dream of having one, but you don't have one.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:27 pm |
    • jw

      Piper, you might want to proof-read your posts. My nine year old doesn't even make these mistakes.
      -didn't capitalize "perhaps" after the colon
      -unnecessary comma after "on"
      -I'm not exactly sure what "Const" is, or "itution."
      -"That they have rights." is an incomplete sentence.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You don't have a nine-year-old unless you got your girlfriend knocked up when you were 6.

      Get over it, dumbfvck. Nobody looks at your posts and does anything but laugh.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:45 pm |
    • jw

      Piper, you are a loathsome creature to be pitied above all others. You remind me of Tolkien's character Gollum. The unfortunate truth for you though is that I can walk away from this discussion and live my content, happy and well-adjusted life and never think of you again. But you still have to be you, and that's about the worst thing I can think of. I'm so sorry for you.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Don't let the door hit you where the dog shoulda bit you, loser.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
    • Jen

      You can't write const.itution as one word because it has the word t.i.t in it. Are you brain dead? You post here all the time so you should know that.

      December 28, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Jen, you're talking to a moron who thinks "have went" is correct. Don't bother. He's dumber than Chard.

      December 28, 2012 at 5:11 pm |
    • derp

      JW, laws are not absolute. There were laws that legalized slavery and they were not correct. So I agree that just because there is a law that states that businesses have to provide certain medical benefits doesn't mean they are instantly justified.

      Perhaps one day there will be new laws that will protect the existence of fetuses or embryos and those future people will look back on this time as backwards.

      As for those who would be grammar gestapo...if they have nothing to comment on than some nitpicks on grammar, they probably have very little upstairs to use in a proper discussion.

      December 28, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
  9. William Demuth

    Boycott these lunatics

    Shoplift what you can, and damage what you can't

    Buy stuff and return it over and over and over and over again.

    They want to play games? Let's play!

    December 28, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • Bruce

      What, are you three? How did you vandalize Chick-fil-a when they didn't live up to what ever crazy you believe in? Who are you going after next? Maybe those girl scouts and their cookies?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • John

      You are a total idiot! When someone doesnt follow your "mantra" of liberalism you vandalize, steal, and rob? You "progressives" are the most closed-minded most INTOLERANT people out there! Go to hell!

      December 28, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • William Demuth

      Johny Boy

      Hell is a story your momma told you to make you stop choking your chicken.

      The threat of it didn't stop you, and it wont stop me.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • William Demuth

      No Bruce, we go after the Churches themselves

      Starting out with Westboro.

      Gonna shut them dowm, throw the leaders in prison, as well they deserve.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • jw

      William, I truly feel compassion for you. I can't imagine how miserable you are living with such anger and bitterness. What happened to you while growing up is not your fault, but it's not too late to get help, and get free from it's bondage.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      jw: it's = "it is."

      Keep it up. Your batting average is amazing.

      December 28, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • jw

      Piper, not sure what your point is, but IT'S becoming clear that you probably don't have too many friends.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, I am not wanting in that department. But you ARE an idiot.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "free from it's bondage."

      Would you like a map and a flashlight, jw?

      December 28, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
  10. JM

    Just curious....Will Hobby Lobby also refuse to cover the cost of Viagra and vasectomies??

    December 28, 2012 at 10:44 am |
  11. Cindy

    What is wrong with women paying for their own contrceptive, I did. Why do we always have to compromise our beliefs for the ways of the world?

    December 28, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If you want to maintain your 'beliefs', fine. You don't get to force your employees to do so. If that's what you want to do, go start a business in a country that's a theocracy.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • Bruce

      How would you keep this insane cultural war going if we didn't make person A pay for person B's mistakes? If person A didn't pay for person B's right not to work. It's ok, they are all victims ready to vote as they are commanded.

      How is a poor girl like Sandra Fluke, attending a top school, suppose to afford the thousands in birth control a young lady needs to get by each year? That's your victim folks, the example dems sent to congress to testify. She has a lot of need from men and from you and I to pay for her needs.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Bruce=stupid git

      December 28, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • MacV

      Nothing. Under Obamacare, contraception is "free". I don't care if contraception is covered, but there should be a co-pay. As for this company, or any company, simply convert your workforce to part-time, wouldn't even be an issue.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Saraswati

      Do you also want to allow a vegan-owned or religious group opposed to animal testing to force people to pay for any cancer treatment tested on animals? If you allow one ethical exception, you allow them all.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
  12. Benjamin

    It doesn't impose on their religious freedom. It imposes on their right to impose their religious beliefs on others.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • ted

      100% correct.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Nathan

      Amen.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • eigenklarg

      But forcing ones morality and beliefs on others is what Evangelicalism is all about.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • DLinLA

      The "religion" angle is just a cover story. Its about $$$ – religious freedom is just the excuse they use to get out of complying with the new law.

      If they get away with it, every greedy corporation in America will suddenly "find Jesus" so they too can skirt the law.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • jw

      So DL, you admit that complying will cost the company more money? You said it was just included in premiums like that makes it free or something.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • derp

      This has nothing to do with money. It is all about religious fanaticism. If hobby lobby's plan covered contraception it's premiums would actually be lower than of it did not. Pregnancies cost a whole lot more than contraceptives.

      December 28, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
  13. Apex301

    This is not about employer rights, This is about EMPLOYEE rights. If Hobby Lobby wants to go on with its 99% imported C%@P store that uses child labor overseas, and refuses to adhere to LAWS in this country, then they need to pay stiff fines.
    Pretending to be Christian is not an excuse to skirt the law.
    Try telling a cop that caught you speeding that you belong to a religion that does not believe in going under the speed limit.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • jw

      Lol, i guess you don't buy anything from anywhere then.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:48 am |
  14. Colin

    Does any of the following statements make any less sense than the other three, or are they all just as selfish and unworkable in a modern society?

    (i) I belong to a group of economists who believes that the creator of the Universe does not want people to pay taxes. Therefore, I don't have to pay taxes.

    (ii) I belong to a group of hunters who believes that the creator of the Universe wants people to be hunted. Therefore I don't have to obey laws against murder.

    (iii) My psychiatric group believes that the creator of the Universe wants young people to have $ex. Therefore, I can molest children.

    (iv) my religious group believes the creator of the Universe wants women to risk pregnancy every time they have $ex. Therefore, I don't have to follow the law that the rest of society does concerning contraceptives.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:41 am |
  15. b0bc4t

    Maybe we just have to read what's in the bill... now that it is passed, and we still don't have clue number one about what the costs and effects will be...... another fine piece of legislation from the brain trust in Washington DC.
    When does the govenment sponsored, tax payer funded sterilizations and lobotomies begin... does the line form in DC?

    December 28, 2012 at 10:40 am |
  16. roy smith

    we support David Green and Hobby Lobby

    December 28, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • Cindy

      My family and friends do too.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And I'll bet your patronage will keep them afloat. How many millions are you going to spend there?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • derp

      So you support a company that imports most of it's products from a country who's government subsidizes it's businesses while simultaneously forcing abortions on anyone who has more than one child.

      The cognitive dissonance of you idiot fundies would be funny if it were not so alarming.

      December 28, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
  17. Patrick

    Since when did one's boss get to decide one's reproductive options? That sounds like slavery to me.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • gunnde

      Slavery? Really, Patrick? Who's mandating that you, I, or anyone else work for Hobby Lobby or patronize their stores? Answer: no one. So, slavery is not applicable here.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • jw

      Actually, you are quite an idiot for equating this to the suffering of black Americans.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:19 am |
  18. Ashlin

    I'm not sure why it should be a businesses obligation to provide contreception to any employees at all. On religious grounds or not. If I employ someone to build widgets in my factory, how am I repsponsible for making sure they can go out and bone with no consequence?

    December 28, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • Patrick

      Ashlin - there are always consequences. Sometimes they are emotional. But you know what? It isn't your business to judge, nor is it the business of any corporation or boss. Judge not lest ye be judged.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why do morons like you assume that contraception is used only by single women who want to get "boned"? Most married women use contraception for the majority of their reproductive lives. What did you think, they only did it when they wanted a baby?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Ashlin

      Still not seeing how it should be the responsibility of one person to ensure another person is provided birth control.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      THEY AREN'T PROVIDING IT. They are providing coverage for it under the health insurance plan. Employees pay premiums for health insurance.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • jw

      We must also make sure they have an HDTV because that is only fair. God forbid they have to pay for something! That's outrageous!

      December 28, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Saraswati

      Because historically that is the decision the US has made. To function as a country, we need to guarantee people have healthcare. Hopefully we will move to a better solution, but for now this is what we've got.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
  19. ted

    What about the Christian woman who work for Hobby Lobby who want contraceptive coverage?
    What about their rights?

    December 28, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • Cindy

      Isn't the issue the "Morning After Pill", not contrceptive as a whole?

      December 28, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No.

      December 28, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • jw

      As a married lower income couple we have always paid for own contraception. It's ridiculous to even imagine forcing someone else to pay for it.

      December 28, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • DLinLA

      THE EMPLOYEE PAYS FOR IT THROUGH PREMIUMS – why can't that sink into your closed minds?

      December 28, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • jw

      Well then there's another point of contention. If i'm an employee of Hobby Lobby, I don't want my premium to go up to pay for your contraception.

      December 28, 2012 at 12:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I don't want to pay for your smoking cessation program or your weight-loss program, either. Or for your diabetes meds or your hypertension meds. But I have to, and rightly so, because all of them are benefits that save money for everyone.

      What part of that do you fail to comprehend?

      December 28, 2012 at 12:34 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Cindy, the issue is with the general idea of religious exclusions. If you allow one, you open the door for anything, even people who don't want to treat anyone who is overweight or who has god-ordained cancer.

      December 28, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
  20. Peter Q Wolfe

    This Hobby Lobby case isn't about morality like conservatives would have us believe. No, its like usual about MONEY the God of the GOP not morality. Is it moral that millionaires or billionaires even exist? A last thought is that I'm advising my family never ever to purchase from this zealot company and similar intedies like them.

    December 28, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • Mike

      Typical lefty view. If it was about money, it would seem to make more fiscal sense to suck up the additional health care cost over the 1.3 mil per day they are getting ready to get socked with. But don't let facts stand in the way of your argument...

      December 28, 2012 at 10:53 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.