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December 27th, 2012
07:20 PM ET
Hobby Lobby faces millions in fines for bucking ObamacareBy Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor Washington (CNN)– Craft store giant Hobby Lobby is bracing for a $1.3 million a day fine beginning January 1 for noncompliance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, dubbed Obamacare. The company opposes providing some contraceptives to employees through its company health care plan on religious grounds, saying some contraceptive products, like the morning after pill, equate to abortion. After failing to receive temporary relief from the fines from the Supreme Court, Hobby Lobby announced late Thursday through its attorneys that it "will continue to provide health insurance to all qualified employees. To remain true to their faith, it is not their intention, as a company, to pay for abortion-inducing drugs." In September, Hobby Lobby and affiliate Mardel, a Christian bookstore chain, sued the federal government for violating their owners' religious freedom and ability to freely exercise their religion. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter "All they're asking for is a narrow exemption from the law that says they don't have to provide drugs they believe cause abortions," Hobby Lobby attorney Kyle Duncan, a general counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, told CNN affiliate KFOR in November. "Our basic point is the government can't put a corporation in the position of choosing between its faith and following the law." The lawsuit says the companies' religious beliefs prohibit them from providing insurance coverage for abortion inducing drugs. As of August 2012, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act requires employer-provided health care plans to provide "all Food and Drug Administration approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures, and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity," according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Churches and houses of worship are exempt from the regulation and a narrow exemption was added for nonprofit religious employers whose employees "primarily share its religious tenets" and who "primarily serve persons who share its religious tenets." In the face of that opposition, the Department of Health and Human Services tweaked its original rule in February to require health insurers, not employers, to cover the cost of contraception coverage, reasoning that would prevent religious groups from having to finance such coverage. Critics have argued that exemption for nonprofits is far too narrow and a host of nonprofit religious groups have sued the administration over the regulations. The Internal Revenue Service regulations now say that a group health care plan that "fails to comply" with the Affordable Care Act is subject to an "excise tax" of "$100 per day per individual for each day the plan does not comply with the requirement." It remains unclear how the IRS would implement and collect the excise tax. The Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, based Hobby Lobby chain has more than 500 stores that employ 13,000 employees across 42 states, and takes in $2.6 billion in sales. The company's attorneys say January begins a new health care plan year for Hobby Lobby and that excise tax from the IRS would amount to $1.3 million a day. Hobby Lobby is owned by CEO and founder David Green and members of his family. "The foundation of our business has been, and will continue to be strong values, and honoring the Lord in a manner consistent with biblical principles," a statement on the Hobby Lobby website reads, adding that one outgrowth of that is the store is closed on Sundays to give its employees a day of rest. Each year the company also takes out full-page ads in numerous newspapers proclaiming its faith at Christmastime and on Independence Day. The store is not formally connected to any denomination, but the Green family supports numerous Christian ministries and is behind the Green Collection, one of the largest private collections of biblical antiquities in the world. The family plans to permanently house the collection in Washington at a museum set to open in 2016. On Friday, attorneys for Hobby Lobby petitioned the Supreme Court to intervene and provide temporary relief from the the fines until the case was decided by the U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Wednesday evening, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who handles emergency appeals from the 10th Circuit Court, said the company failed to meet "the demanding standard for the extraordinary relief," and that it could continue to pursue its challenge in lower courts and return to the higher court, if necessary, after a final judgment. "Hobby Lobby will continue their appeal before the 10th Circuit. The Supreme Court merely decided not to get involved in the case at this time," Duncan said in a statement. A spokesperson for the Justice Department declined to comment on the high court's move. White House officials have long said they believe they have struck an appropriate compromise between religious exemptions and women's health. The White House has not commented specifically on the Hobby Lobby case. "It's just so sad that Hobby Lobby is facing this choice. What company, even a successful family owned business like Hobby Lobby, how can they afford the government $1.3 million in fines every day? It's just really absurd that government is not giving on this," said Maureen Ferguson, a senior policy adviser for the Catholic Association. Religious liberty groups like hers are watching the Hobby Lobby case closely. "I am optimistic that these cases will eventually snake their way back up to the Supreme Court and given a full hearing on the merits of the case, I am confident that the Supreme Court will rule in favor of religious liberty," Ferguson said. "But in the meantime there is serious damage being done to businesses like Hobby Lobby and nonprofit charitable organizations." The Hobby Lobby case is just one of many before the courts over the religious exemption aspects of the law. The case represents by far the biggest for-profit group challenging the health care mandate. After this piece of the law went into effect in August, religious nonprofits were given "safe harbor" of one year from implementing the law. "In effect, the president is saying we have a year to figure out how to violate our consciences," Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, said in January when the administration announced the move. Dolan's New York Archdiocese won a victory this month in its legal battle against the administration and the mandate. In May it sued the government in federal court in Brooklyn over the mandate, saying it "unconstitutionally attempts to define the nature of the church's religious ministry and would force religious employers to violate their consciences." The government moved to have the case dismissed. On December 4, Judge Brian M. Cogan denied the government's motion to dismiss the case, saying the government's promise of changes to how it will implement the law were not enough to merit dismissal. "There is no, 'Trust us, changes are coming' clause in the Constitution," Cogan wrote in in his decision to let the case proceed. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Christianity is just Islam with a different superhero and slightly older coloring book.
That is historically and doctrinally far truer than most realize.
@ Bill. Well played, sir!
It really depends upon where you define the split. Islam as we know it is younger than Christianity, but the split begins all the way back at Ismael (Son of Abraham). The Jewish/Christian branch falls in the line of Issac. Both branches believe that their son of Abraham was the one who was blessed rather than the other.
Bravo Bill. Excellent and thought provoking post.
You nailed it Bill!
Yeah there's really no difference between the two societies that Christianity and Islam have built. None whatsoever.
Uh...he's talking about the similarities of the roots of both, Deacon.
You got your 6 responses. Right on cue.
The law is the law. Hobby Lobby is not a church or a church-affiliated organization. Period.
Follow the law or get your proverbial skull cracked. Your choice.
Sieg Hiel!
*sigh* God, Bill, you're so stupid you can't even figure out how to spell a simple insult.
Funny you should reference the Nazis, Bill, one of the major Christian parties of the 20th Century.
Another useless post designed to merely make a complete non-point from Bill Deacon. Tell me Bill, does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy everytime you post something useless?
BD you are a religious a clown. You have never offered anything but snide remarks. You cannot back up the RCC and it's fallacies, like your triune goD, viginal birth, the authority of your popes, etc, let alone explain how your jesus is lard of all. You are a POE, and a very delceitful person.
Bill can't explain how it is his now-wife aborted their child, when he and she are both "good Catholics."
She died on Thanksgiving day this year.
No, she didn't, or you wouldn't be here, blabbering away.
Can I invoke Godwin's law, now?
"She died on Thanksgiving day this year"
One less fundie. It's a step in the right direction.
They are not paying for a woman's abortion. The women is receiving wages and benefits...the benefits are a part of her overall wage scale and she has the right for it to cover her health care needs regardless of what the employers religion happens to be.
Not only should Hobby Lobby face fines, people should boycott them for making our health care costs higher.
No one on these plans is paying for people's abortions. What they are getting is discounted insurance because both birth control and abortions are far cheaper than paying for childbirth and infant care.
This whole Action against Hobby Loby is wrong the law of the land should not trample all over what people belief in.
What they are asking for has aready been granted to church's so why not this firm, If it was a muslem firm asking for the same consideration in line with there believe's I am sure it would have been granted. But Hobby Lobby is a Christian company so it must suffer.Just because a law has been passed it doesn't make it a good law.Obamacare needs to be looked at and Changed.
They should also force them to be open on Sundays. These employees have a right to work on Sunday but are being forced to spend time with their families. HOW CRUEL!!!
Do you understand what the word "law" means? Laws force; that's what they do. If the law was that every business must open on Sunday, then that would be nonnegotiable, too.
If they want the exemption, they should liquidate the company, transfer all assets to the state and become a religious non-profit. You can't have your cake, eat it too, then sell the leftovers at a profit to cover the whole cost.
You mean liquidate their assets and do whatever they want with them. It would be something I would consider if I were them.
I would have to seriously consider the same. They are under no obligation to operate the company. Let Obama appoint a hobby czar to run it.
There's always someone else willing to step into the gap that would be left. I say let them bankrupt themselves and the government can use the money to help fund medicare and medicaid.
No czar needed. They own the company. Sell it, close it, sell off the assets or any combination of it. Keep the profit and do as they want.
Yeah with all the new taxes, regulation and low interest rates, capital is just lining up to invest in business.
Oh yes because high taxes and regulations was such a huge deterrent during the Clinton administration.
Good, I hope Hobby Lobby buckles under the fines imposed on them. Forcing them to comply to fair government regulations is not forcing them to violate their religious beliefs, however, forcing women who work for them to conform to their religious beliefs by denying them medicine is violating THEIR religious freedom. The "morning" after bill does not cause abortions, it simply stops ovulation and thickens the lining of the uterus. The ignorance of these people is on display for all to see.
How exactly is Hobby Lobby preventing anyone from using birth control?
You are allowed to restrict other people religious freedom in this country IF you do it while proclaiming that your rights are the one's being trampled. It's like saying "Shut up, because you are restricting my freedom of speech."
There are many medications my insurance won't cover.... I'm sure President Obama is going to fix that too. Oh wait... that has to do with $$$ so I'll have to pay for it myself.
I wish theywould put contraceptives in the wine that Christians drink each Sunday, pretending it is the blood of their over-rated sky-zombie Jesus. If we could just stop them from having children, we could advance science and logic significantly within a few years.
Or you could just round us up into camps and medially sterilize us.
Bill, that would work, but it would have to be done before you breed.
"Or you could just round us up into camps and medially sterilize us"
Well it sounds like a good starting point.
I'll meet you at the train
So where do we draw the line? Can an employer refuse health insurance for blood tansfusions because it is Jehova Witness? Can they be a KKK member and refuse to hire minorities, calling the KKK their church? Your religion stops at my nose, and if I am a woman wanting birth control, that is a lot closer than my nose.
Excellent post, Al...well said.
Well said.
Hey Dan, Metalhead65 is right. He's not a bigot. Its the way the country is these days. The government would cater to the muslins and thats not being a bigot for having a opinion. Walks like a duck.
We cater to Muslims, huh? Is that what Sean told you? Let me ask you this....should employees of businesses owned by the Seventh Day Adventist Chruch exclude coverage for blood transfusions to their non-Adventist employees? Using your Muslim-hating logic, that would be perfectly ok, right?
Nope, metalhead85 is a bigot, and so are you.
Walks like a duck.
"Let me ask you this....should employees of businesses owned by the Seventh Day Adventist Chruch exclude coverage for blood transfusions to their non-Adventist employees? Using your Muslim-hating logic, that would be perfectly ok, right?"
Your logic is impeccable. You will not receive an answer.
Christians have just as much right to freedom of religion as anyone else. You know what is hypocrisy? Having all semblance of Christian faith removed from the public in the name of freedom of religion because it "offends" someone or it is viewed as Christians shoving our faith into the lives of others. Freedom of religion started out as a right for citizens not to fear persecution for practicing their religious faith. It has been transformed into a right that specifically gives non-believers an attempt at destroying Christian traditions and faith. That's hypocrisy. But like the Bible says, there will be those that are blind to the truth and will mock what is truth to attempt to escape from it. How many have looked at a Buddhist temple and become offended? Now, how many have looked at the Cross and become offended? There is a reason for that people; hiding from truth
You know what hypocracy is? Hobby Lobby importing millions in goods from China, where infanticide is common.
Put that in your righteous BS pipe and smoke it.
Hobby Lobby is not owned by the public. It is a private enterprise.
Nobody's religious rights are being infringed upon. Nobody is being forced to get contraception. A company is being told that they must comply with the laws of the land. A company is not "christian," and in any case, is not being told to do something against their religion. It's the person's choice regardless of whether HL decided to follow the law or whether they continue to break the law.
Amen Sam!!! This bunch of Greens are more than ok with overlooking the "sins" of the Chinese when they want to sell their chear goods to fatten their own wallets. Where's their outrage on that?
Doesn't matter whether it's private or public. At all.
Liberals think only atheists should have freedom of religion. As illogical as the atheist religion is...
Robert....no need for health care for you. You are officially brain-dead.
Seriously?? When was the last time you had a "public" holiday celebrated for a Jewish, Buddha or Muslim holiday?? Everyone grumbles when the schools shut down for a Jewish holiday, but no one bats an eye when Christian holidays shut down government and public businesses?? There is no war on Christianity. People are just asking for equality. Christians have never had a problem with equality when it was meant for themselves. As soon as it starts applying to the other religions, THEN it becomes a problem!
Someone hit the boring fundie alarm – Robert's here with gems of wisdom NO ONE has EVER heard before.
"You know what is hypocrisy? Having all semblance of Christian faith removed from the public"
Um, since that is not what is happening, there is no hypocrisy at issue.
Ask Muslim countries how state sponsored faith works out. There are very serious and valid reasons for having a secular public policy and government. No one is stopping you from expressing your religious faith in your home, or church are they?
You give no examples of what you believe people areunfairly trying to force from public life...most likely because you have none.
These hypocrites have not limited access in the past. No health insurance plan has denied women birthcontrol in decades under its drug coverage. This is strictly these conservatives trying to inflict their beliefs on employees and to buck anything associated with Obama. If they hire only Christians with the same beliefs and not people with different beliefs ( illegal by the way) This is a non-issue- or is it?
Any divorced employees by the way?
Just to clear up a common misconception here...
This does NOT cost Hobby Lobby anymore money to offer health insurance with the morning after pill to their employees. It saves them money to do so, which makes it even more ridiculous they won't do it. Insurance companies are not filled with fools. They have done the math and offering this coverage is much much cheaper than paying for pre-natal care, the cost of covering child birth, and the cost of covering a dependent for 24 years. In fact, insurance companies pushed for this provision in the health care bill. They were already offering a discount for plans that included this but many companies refused because they thought they would get bad press if it were known they bought that plan. The thinking was company insurance buyers and the insurance companies could blame the law for 'having to offer this service' and both (mostly the insurance company) pocket the profits.
All arguments that this is an added expense for businesses are invalid. It is a reduction of cost.
Obviously you can't comprehend "religious conviction regarding the sanctiity of life""
Bill – I wasn't addressing those arguments. I was addressing the arguments of cost. People are free to believe what they want. I would argue that the people who own Hobby Lobby still have choices. One is to pay the fines, one is to grant the coverage, and another is to sell the company. Two of those three choices allow them to continue in full knowledge that they are not violating their own beliefs. They have made the first choice. It is interesting that the choice they have made presumes that their ability to express free will is more important than their employees' ability to express free will.
As you have pointed out there is no argument of cost. That is not Hobby Lobby's point. The point is that they do not want to fund medical procedures or medications that they believe contribute to the death of women and children.
Then HL is lying just as you are.
Then they can sell their company. If they don't want to follow the rules like everyone else, then they just don't need to run a for-profit company.
Ultimately they are imposing their religious beliefs on others in the course of a private enterprise. Are they immune to safety standards if those standards violate their religious beliefs? Can they stone to death employees who disobey their parents? How about those that have extramarital se.x? Are they allowed to send women home during 'that time of the month' because they are unclean and should not be around men?
...if there is no issue of cost then they are not funding those procedures.
The should NOT have to pay for the morning after drug. I hope they win. Obama care in my opinion stinks anyways. Go Hobby Lobby!!
YUK YUK GOIN TO HOBBY LOBBY RIGHT AFTER CHIK_FIL_A
"The should NOT have to pay for the morning after drug."
You will be delighted to learn (only on account of your profound ignorance) that the chain is not compelled to do that.
I hate Christians. I really wish we had a policy of educate yourself or be prohibited from breeding. We could wipe out this archaic Dark Ages superst.ition in a generation or two.
Ah, the mindset of anti-theists does indeed result in murder. Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Lenin are fine examples of such close minded bigotry.
Well, we love you! We are also glad that your mom chose life- to give you life 🙂 Jesus loves you, too! Praying you'll choose Him some day, since He is the author of Life, Light, and Love.
And Hitler is the example of the wonders of Christianity.
Robert
"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
– Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941
"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out." Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people." Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933
bekahjoy42- Thank you. You pray for me and I'll think for both of us.
"You pray for me and I'll think for both of us"
We have a winner
Hobby should simply drop all insurance coverage instead of paying for a woman to murder her baby with a pill.
You're an idiot.
No, no that's crazy! They just shouldn't hire whores in the first place.
Are you on dope? Because no one with a sober mind would advocate for eliminating health care coverage for thousands of people. What are you? Drunk? On crack? Meth?
I can't tell, Tom....is he a blooming idiot or just doped out of his mind?
Is there really a difference? If so, who cares?
It would actually be a rather sound strategy for them to take. They'd have to cut employee hours as well though. It would be legal and not cost them anything.
Providing insurance that doesn't cover certain contraceptives is illegal and will cost them a considerable amount of money and would probably cost those employees their jobs too.
Robert, the morning after pill is not an abortion pill, no matter what Pastor Rush has foamed at the mouth to tell you. Do some research, and educate yourself before inserting your big mouth into a topic that has nothing to do with somebody named 'Robert'.
The FDA, with no fanfare, released a new report, dated April 30, 2011. The report indicates 14 women in the United States alone have died from using the mifepristone abortion drug and 2,207 women have been injured by it.
Of the women experiencing medical and physical problems resulting from the abortion drug, 612 women required hospitalizations, 339 experienced blood loss significant enough to require a transfusion, 256 experienced infections and 48 women experienced what the FDA labeled as “severe infections.” Given that the RU 486 abortion drug caused sepsis, a potentially lethal infection that resulted in the deaths of women from around the world, the “serious infections” were very likely life-threatening situations.
Yes, killing a baby with a pill is grounds for denying EVERYONE their health coverage. Killing over 31,000 people a year with guns and saying we should control guns is UNFAIR, GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE, MY RIGHT TO BARE ARMS SHOULDN'T BE MESSED WITH BECAUSE OTHERS ARE TOO DUMB TO NOT GET SHOT.
OK then, With that logic, pills don't kill babies and you shouldn't control the ability for others to have access to them. Besides, some types of birth control are also used to treat women's health issues outside of getting pregnant. You can't deny a woman coverage for her endimetriosos or hormonal disorder because of your stick up beliefs just like you don't think someone can take away your gun rights because they believe guns are dangerous.
@Bill
Link to the source.
For those unaware of how google works:
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/UCM263353.pdf
Hey Bill, guess what: pregnancies can cause the same problems.
Bill, if you can't win your argument on legal grounds, you think resorting to this will help? Sorry, BD the widower, but the drug is legal and pretending that the side effects are reason to deny its use smacks of desperation on your part.
If you can't do better, you'd best retreat or better still, surrender. You have no grounds.
On the very first page of the report
"These events cannot with certainty be causally attributed to mifepristone because of information gaps about patient health status, clinical management of the patient, concurrent drug use and other possible medical or surgical treatments."
Bill you really are pathetic.
Sorry, they're a business, not a house of worship. What would happen if they tried to say that they won't hire Muslims because they believe in a different god and it conflicts with their religious beliefs?
On the other hand, I am completely against Obamacare, so don't get the idea that I'm backing him on this. Definitely NOT!
you can be sure if a muslim owned company found this against their beliefs it would have stricken from the bill or over turned in court. can't have them offended in any way but since it is a christian owned company it is ok to force them to go against their neliefs.
Give me a break, you bigot. Do you want some cheese with that whine of yours?
typical liberal reply to someone who does not share you view start throwing insults. if they do not receive special treatment then why did this judge deny this request but when before she was a supreme court justice ok a suit brought by a muslim prisoner who demanded special food for the ramadan holiday citing freedom of religion?
Bigotry, thy name is metalhead85.
I find it offensive they find everything about our culture offensive and we must changes as not to offend them. and if that makes me a bigot then so be it.
Metal, why don't you move to a theocracy and see how well it tolerates your views?
"I find it offensive they find everything about our culture offensive and we must changes as not to offend them. and if that makes me a bigot then so be it"
Name one law or regulation that has ever been changed in America to accommodate Muslims.
They are even nuttier than the bibletards. Islam is just a slightly crazier version christianity with a different superhero and coloring book.
I see it the opposite scenario more likely. IN NC, we recently passed an Amendedment banning Gay Marriage. Our own Governor Pat McCrory said when running for office "AS A CHRISTIAN I BELIEVE MARRIAGE IS ONLY BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN AND I SUPPORT AMENDMENT ONE"
Imagine a Senator saying "AS A MUSLIM I BELIEVE EATING PORK IS A MORTAL SIN AND PORK PRODUCTS SHOULDN'T BE INCLUDED FROM MILITARY OR PUBLIC SCHOOL MENUS"
You say that's two different things and you're right, really. Banning a person's ability to marry who they choose is FAR more overbearing than if the government banned a food product because of religious beliefs. The government has the FDA, they ban food all the time.
metalhead, you are basing your entire argument on ONE court case this justice heard? Last time I checked, doofus, if they didn't provide a place for all faiths to worship, they were violating civil rights. Plus, this is a COMPLETELY different argument, so your retarded point is moot. You are not only incorrect but ignorant of how the law works. Were you hit with a crane and suffer a fractured skull or something? Even though you'll run away like the baby you are it must be said again: you are a bigot and I hope you die soon.
wow where is the left wing tree hugging compassion we always here about? oh right that's only if share the same leftest viewpoint. do society a favor and kill yourself before you reproduce.
close em down since they are not open on sundays....