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December 27th, 2012
07:20 PM ET

Hobby Lobby faces millions in fines for bucking Obamacare

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Washington (CNN)– Craft store giant Hobby Lobby is bracing for a $1.3 million a day fine beginning January 1 for noncompliance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, dubbed Obamacare.

The company opposes providing some contraceptives to employees through its company health care plan on religious grounds, saying some contraceptive products, like the morning after pill, equate to abortion.

After failing to receive temporary relief from the fines from the Supreme Court, Hobby Lobby announced late Thursday through its attorneys that it "will continue to provide health insurance to all qualified employees. To remain true to their faith, it is not their intention, as a company, to pay for abortion-inducing drugs."

In September, Hobby Lobby and affiliate Mardel, a Christian bookstore chain, sued the federal government for violating their owners' religious freedom and ability to freely exercise their religion.

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"All they're asking for is a narrow exemption from the law that says they don't have to provide drugs they believe cause abortions," Hobby Lobby attorney Kyle Duncan, a general counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, told CNN affiliate KFOR in November. "Our basic point is the government can't put a corporation in the position of choosing between its faith and following the law."

The lawsuit says the companies' religious beliefs prohibit them from providing insurance coverage for abortion inducing drugs. As of August 2012, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act requires employer-provided health care plans to provide "all Food and Drug Administration approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures, and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity," according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Churches and houses of worship are exempt from the regulation and a narrow exemption was added for nonprofit religious employers whose employees "primarily share its religious tenets" and who "primarily serve persons who share its religious tenets."

In the face of that opposition, the Department of Health and Human Services tweaked its original rule in February to require health insurers, not employers, to cover the cost of contraception coverage, reasoning that would prevent religious groups from having to finance such coverage. Critics have argued that exemption for nonprofits is far too narrow and a host of nonprofit religious groups have sued the administration over the regulations.

The Internal Revenue Service regulations now say that a group health care plan that "fails to comply" with the Affordable Care Act is subject to an "excise tax" of "$100 per day per individual for each day the plan does not comply with the requirement." It remains unclear how the IRS would implement and collect the excise tax.

The Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, based Hobby Lobby chain has more than 500 stores that employ 13,000 employees across 42 states, and takes in $2.6 billion in sales. The company's attorneys say January begins a new health care plan year for Hobby Lobby and that excise tax from the IRS would amount to $1.3 million a day.

Hobby Lobby is owned by CEO and founder David Green and members of his family. "The foundation of our business has been, and will continue to be strong values, and honoring the Lord in a manner consistent with biblical principles," a statement on the Hobby Lobby website reads, adding that one outgrowth of that is the store is closed on Sundays to give its employees a day of rest. Each year the company also takes out full-page ads in numerous newspapers proclaiming its faith at Christmastime and on Independence Day.

The store is not formally connected to any denomination, but the Green family supports numerous Christian ministries and is behind the Green Collection, one of the largest private collections of biblical antiquities in the world. The family plans to permanently house the collection in Washington at a museum set to open in 2016.

On Friday, attorneys for Hobby Lobby petitioned the Supreme Court to intervene and provide temporary relief from the the fines until the case was decided by the U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver.

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Wednesday evening, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who handles emergency appeals from the 10th Circuit Court, said the company failed to meet "the demanding standard for the extraordinary relief," and that it could continue to pursue its challenge in lower courts and return to the higher court, if necessary, after a final judgment.

"Hobby Lobby will continue their appeal before the 10th Circuit. The Supreme Court merely decided not to get involved in the case at this time," Duncan said in a statement.

A spokesperson for the Justice Department declined to comment on the high court's move.

White House officials have long said they believe they have struck an appropriate compromise between religious exemptions and women's health. The White House has not commented specifically on the Hobby Lobby case.

"It's just so sad that Hobby Lobby is facing this choice. What company, even a successful family owned business like Hobby Lobby, how can they afford the government $1.3 million in fines every day? It's just really absurd that government is not giving on this," said Maureen Ferguson, a senior policy adviser for the Catholic Association. Religious liberty groups like hers are watching the Hobby Lobby case closely.

"I am optimistic that these cases will eventually snake their way back up to the Supreme Court and given a full hearing on the merits of the case, I am confident that the Supreme Court will rule in favor of religious liberty," Ferguson said. "But in the meantime there is serious damage being done to businesses like Hobby Lobby and nonprofit charitable organizations."

The Hobby Lobby case is just one of many before the courts over the religious exemption aspects of the law. The case represents by far the biggest for-profit group challenging the health care mandate.

After this piece of the law went into effect in August, religious nonprofits were given "safe harbor" of one year from implementing the law. "In effect, the president is saying we have a year to figure out how to violate our consciences," Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, said in January when the administration announced the move.

Dolan's New York Archdiocese won a victory this month in its legal battle against the administration and the mandate. In May it sued the government in federal court in Brooklyn over the mandate, saying it "unconstitutionally attempts to define the nature of the church's religious ministry and would force religious employers to violate their consciences."

The government moved to have the case dismissed. On December 4, Judge Brian M. Cogan denied the government's motion to dismiss the case, saying the government's promise of changes to how it will implement the law were not enough to merit dismissal. "There is no, 'Trust us, changes are coming' clause in the Constitution," Cogan wrote in in his decision to let the case proceed.

UPDATE: Hobby Lobby's $1.3 million Obamacare loophole

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church and state

soundoff (5,627 Responses)
  1. Craziness

    And now yet another employer will figure out ways around this law to the detriment of the employees. HC coverage was easier and cheaper before Obamacare for sure.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
  2. Sobby Hobby

    Tough cookies, Hobby Lobby. Your religion has no baring on your employees' choices and health care access. Suck it up.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:39 pm |
  3. sara

    The problem is allowing exemptions for some beliefs and not others isn't fair. Jehovah Witnesses don't believe people should get blood transfusions. Should they be able to deny coverage to people for that? The fact of the matter is employees who want the morning after pill will take it out of their paycheck. Either way, the company is responsible for giving them the means to do it and there isn't anything Hobby Lobby can do about it except go out of business and let someone else fill the void.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
  4. fishyapplepie

    Reblogged this on fishyapplepie and commented:
    Talk about violation of human rights. – Emmett.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
  5. Alicia

    If everyone refuses to pay any fines OR give into OBUMBLE CARE, what will the govt do?.. come down on hundreds of thousands of business's?.. I think not.

    Go take your OBUMBLE CARE & STUFF IT!

    December 28, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, sweetie, the election's over. Your side lost. Wake up, now.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
    • sam

      Most businesses aren't run by hypocritical fundies, thank goodness.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
    • Dippy

      Businesses, not business's. Typical fundie third-grade writing.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I don't think Alicia's elevator goes all the way to the top floor.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
  6. Ken Margo

    This is a phony issue the crooked Christians are babbling about.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • sam

      Fake outrage and grandstanding to get free advertising.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • Dale

      Ken, it is boiling down to free publicity for the company.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
  7. monte

    How about just hiring older people, they won't need it if some of their parts are out?

    December 28, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
  8. John Wayne

    Render Unto Caesar

    And they sent unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.
    And when they were come, they said unto him, Teacher, we know that you are true, and care for no man: for you regard not the person of men, but teach the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

    Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt you me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
    And they brought it. And he said unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
    And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him.

    Marvel Obama and his wisdom of fair share.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
  9. female1217

    Hobby Lobby and its parent company are a business. It amazes me that this is even an issue. You are a business, you are required to follow all pertainable laws. You are not able to pick and choose which ones you will follow and which ones you will not. Just because someone seeks employment with your company does not mean they are required to follow your religious beliefs or be punished by them either.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • monte

      They are also not required to take the job.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • John Wayne

      WHAT!? woa easy there Stalin. It's THIER business! and if they see something that is not fair they have very right to change thier business model and go out of business. I love how sanctimonious you are with thier money and thier business plan.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • Mark9988

      There's always someone who believes that anything that impinges on complete unrestrained pursuit of self interest is somehow 'punishment'. People make decisions all the time about whether to work for companies based on their benefits. In this case, the company didn't take anything away. It simply didn't add something that is inconsistent with its well-known values.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • DWWAJW

      There are many things not covered under various insurance policies issued by thousands of corporations. Do you beleive each of those employees are being "punished" becuase the employeer in those instances does not have the bankroll to buy insurance that covers EVERY eventuality?

      December 28, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • sam

      John Wayne, your cattle are leaving without you...better run to catch up.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • John

      Femlae1217 I bet you are on Welfare and Foodstamp too. It's THEIR business. Not yours, not mine, and surely not the employees'. Don't like it ...don't work there. Stupid Naggers!!!

      December 28, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So any company can decide not to obey the law?

      December 28, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • sam

      John, are you on your cycle? Having a bad day?

      December 28, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
    • sara

      It's fine with me if they go out of business. It's not as if there aren't any other companies willing to fill the void. They can challenge the law if they please, but in the end they must obey it or go out of business.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • RY

      @Sara it's fine with you because it's not your job to lose.Very ignorant statement!

      December 28, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If your wife is out of a job, RY, it's not the government's fault, it's the fault of the owners of Hobby Lobby. If you want to work for a company that flouts the law, that's your problem. The owners do not have any defense for their position. They are not a religious organization and they're asking to be treated as one. They, not the courts, are in the wrong.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • RY

      @ Tom Tom The company was founded by people that have their own religious convictions and they have a right to hold those sacred just like the woman who wants to take the morning after pill. She can pay for that herself and still keep a good job or she can get a job with less pay and not as many perks and get the morning after pill covered. That's her choice!

      December 28, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And Hobby Lobby can either obey the law or pay the fine. Easy as that. Tell your wife to start looking for another job.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Suppose they were opposed to blood transfusions. Many fundies are. What then? Would they get an exemption from following the law?

      You don't seem to get it, RY. What you think should or shouldn't occur because of the owners' beliefs is irrelevant. We don't live by religious beliefs. We live by laws.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • RY

      @tom tom I have bad news for you, Hobby Lobby will never pay for that pill!!!! I know that for a fact and you can write that down in your little black book!!!! They are very smart people and I know that they probably already have a plan B. It might just come out of the tax payers pocket who knows! Wow, I didn't know that I had a wife,thanks for informing me of that!

      December 28, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You "know for a fact", do you? Well, thank goodness you have a crystal ball.

      I don't really give a ripe fvck what happens to HL, as long as they obey the law. And I think it's hilarious that you refer to their "Plan B." Thanks for the laughs.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Maybe you can look into your crystal ball and find the answer to my question. Would it be okay with you for a corporation to deny coverage to its employees for blood transfusions simply because it was agains the religious beliefs of the owners?

      December 28, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
    • RY

      @tom tom I have nothing left say to you. We'll see what happens tom tom.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So you can't answer the question, can you? No problem. I figured as much.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Monte, you think everyone has. queue of jobs just waiting out there to choose from with a diverse array of health benetis to match every imaginable set of ethical beliefs? Really? What world do you line in?

      December 28, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
  10. mdupoise

    This is nonesense. Another corporation trying to dictate its narrow beliefs on its employees. I had a friend who worked for a government contrator in Northern Virgina. He was "unceremoniously escorted from the building" because the family that owned the company (which delt in classified material I might ad) didnt like that he refused to participate in daily prayer meetings! These types of workplace environments are illegal! Unless you work for the church, then keep your damned religious belifs to yourselves! You do NOT have the right to try and IMPOSE your beliefs on another.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
    • Mark9988

      People apply to work there fully aware of their values. You make it sound like they are forced into indentured servitude.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • EdD

      The Gov is dictating their beliefs as well. But that's okay with you? Seriously?

      December 28, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Imposing the rule of law is not the same as imposing religious beliefs.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • DWWAJW

      Why is it the liberal and progressives like to beleive employees have no options other than to work for an employer and accept the terms they dictate? This is the same logic that pushed through the coersive unoin legislation and the minimum wage laws. If you dont like the terms the employer offers, you have the right to refuse the offer of employment.
      All individuals should have the right to freely contract with other individuals and corporations for legal goos and services with out interference from governmental bodies or union activists.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • William

      I hate that so many people believe that you can just find another job so easy. Its hard and people need to work. I also hate that buisness's are using Religion as an excuse to skirt laws and rules and to get benefits for themselves, they are companies not churches, they provide a public service and they themselves are neutral.. the owners may be a religion but do we really want every buinsess is the US to follow the same rules astheir founders beliefs?. Its a company that makes money, they are not very christian when you look at the company's other policies and practices and how they go about making money, so why claim Religion when you dont like something... This is a scam by Hobby Lobby and other buinsess to keep from paying for something they should have to pay for. They are ok to Fund Westboro Church nutjobs but they want pay for a persons contriception.. really gives you focus doesnt it.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • DWWAJW

      Religious discrimination is against the law and if the situation you described was real, I would expect the individual would have a legitimate case. In the instance of Hobby Lobby, you are asking that we ignore religious discrimination by the government against the ownership of Hobby Lobby. Why is that OK?

      December 28, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How is the government discriminating against the company's right to practice religion? Since when does a company have a religion and how is obeying the law infringing on that, D?

      December 28, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What if the religious convictions of the company's owners included refusing to hire people who are black or Jewish? What if they wouldn't allow employees to have insurance coverage that included blood transfusions or antibiotics? Would THAT be okay with you?

      Again, how is the government infringing on the owners' right to practice their religion by insisting that they follow the laws that are there to protect employees?

      December 28, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • Chad

      @mdupoise "unceremoniously escorted from the building" because the family that owned the company (which delt in classified material I might ad) didnt like that he refused to participate in daily prayer meetings! "

      =>that is a bunch of utter nonsense, I've no doubt that he was fired, but not for that reason. that's nonsense.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
    • Loubies

      I wonder if they have an issue with having to pay for Viagra. I'm guessing not...

      December 28, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why not, Chard? Do you have any proof it didn't occur? You're always asking for proof God doesn't exist, so you know....

      December 28, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • Chad

      1. the person was fired, not laid off (escorted from the building means getting fired)
      2. Govt contracts have particularly stringent HR policies and procedures. EVERYTHING is kept track off, and I mean EVERYTHING. There are numerous govt audits during the course of a year to ensure compliance.
      3. When said person was fired, they were given a written statement outlining the cause of their termination. This is policy.
      4. That termination paper was reviewed by HR prior to being presented to the employee, the employee signed it and kept a copy.
      5. There is -0- chance that the reason for termination given on that letter of termination was a failure to participate in daily prayer meetings, that would have been a violation of a dozen or more employment discrimination laws and a guaranteed winning court case.

      zero chance

      December 28, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Not proof, Chardalicious. Your opinion and nothing more. You have no idea what occurred or did not, and no proof that it didn't happen exactly as the post stated.

      Just like the bible. It must be true. It's in writing.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • Chad

      🙂

      "no it isnt" isnt quite as devastating a riposte as you think it is.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You seem to think it is when you're using it. Wanna post some more little smiley faces, Chardalicious?

      December 28, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
  11. david defrank

    listen pro aborts life begins at conception who are you god or a confused baby killer.you will be judged by those innocent ones you toture to death and those holly souls just concieved.i cant wait.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
    • Umm.....

      ...what? You sound like you are a child yourself, judging by the way you write.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • Hypocrites

      These same people are supposedly so outraged by the deaths caused in Iraq but they're good if it's babies in the womb. Especially since we off more babies due to convenience in a single year than we would in 10 Iraq wars.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Another moron pipes up.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • sam

      Troll. BORING troll.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      You should call yourself david de dumb dumb.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • Umm.....

      Hypocrites, you moron, they're not babies, and you don't give a flying fvck,/i> about them once they're born....who's the hypocrite?? It's a morning AFTER pill, not an abortion pill, you freaking dolt!

      December 28, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • Hypocrites

      Sorry Umm but I care in and out of the womb. This is off topic but to the OP's post. However, I obviously stuck a nerve.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:50 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @Hypocrites........ If you care in and OUT of the womb, are you offering any money to help these babies? If not you don't care in or out!

      December 28, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • Hypocrites

      Give to who exactly Ken? I give to many charities.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hypocrites, I wonder where you stand on the gun control issue. Just curious. How about the death penalty? Are you unaware that the morning after pill is NOT an abortion pill? If not, educate yourself. It's a contraceptive and as such is part of basic health care coverage.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • Hypocrites

      Yes. I am aware. My response was to the OP's context. If you care, I feel that there is no need for assault weapons, high capacity clips, or guns made for mass shootings. I also believe there is no reason one cannot own guns as long as there are strict regulations. NJ and Cali have strict gun laws. However, they also have some of the highest murder by gun rates per capita so there is more to it. I am for the death penalty but only for the most serious of murderers. I am not for decades of appeals and sitting on death row forever.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
    • ArgleBargle

      Pro lifers are also pro war. Quite the little conundrum. And yeah, one can be against abortion and still follow the law; the morning after pill is a contraceptive. This is needless absurdity on the part of HL.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So, Hypocrites, are you opposed to the morning after pill, since it doesn't cause abortion?

      December 28, 2012 at 8:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And do you equate fetuses with babies? You appear to do so. Do you think fetuses should have the same rights as those born?

      Never mind. I can guess the answers.

      December 28, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • Didn't these guys learn anything from Chic-fil-a?

      But didn't those innocent souls get a free ticket to heaven. Pure, innocent without ever having committed a sin. That's like being born in heaven

      December 28, 2012 at 9:40 pm |
    • Ken Margo

      @Hypocrites................. Give money to mothers and fathers directly that cant feed their kids, pay for kids healthcare, clothes etc..

      December 28, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
  12. William

    The government is not breaking the law. It does not fringe on their 1st amendment rights. The 1st amendment, states clearly that Congress shall make no law RESPECTING an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The law does not have to RESPECT the beilefs of those in the company, it just has to no infringe on their ability to worship there beliefs. Forcing them to pay for Health care that includes abortion or contraceptives, etc.. does not stop them from worshiping. They may not believe in it but they have to follow the law and they have to provide it. I as a christian do not force people to worship the way I worship, I see no right to allow this buinsess to force its beliefs on its workers. (and dont give any BS that if they dont like it go somewhere else.. they have to work and not many hiring)...

    December 28, 2012 at 7:05 pm |
    • Evil Genius

      The owners of Hobby Lobby are arguing that by forcing them to pay for contraception, they are being forced to violate their religious beliefs. They believe the government is preventing them from the free exercise of their religious beliefs. In the end, this comes down to whether you believe a privately-owned company should be run by the government, or by its owners. If you accept that you can mandate coverage on business, then you're on the 12-step program to socialism.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nonsense. If you think that const itutes 'socialism', you need to take a class in political science and history.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:03 pm |
  13. They close their doors

    And the employees will be screwed. People just don't get it. They'll learn the hard way, if at all.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
  14. BelladonnaCove

    Bye-bye, Hobby Lobby.
    And what is wrong with getting rid of waste in a woman's body ?? Unwanted fetuses are waste, like a diseased kidney. My friend had 3 abortions and she says her life is much better, now.
    NO ONE wants unwanted kids ; that's the point of ObamaCare.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • BelladonnaCove

      Also, healthcare needs to be rationed if it's going to work. ObamaCare will deny coverage to the terminally ill; so those with better quality of life can receive treatment. You all voted for Obama...now live with it.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:05 pm |
    • Sane Person

      fail troll fails.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • MCDinBC

      It's views like yours that hurts the cause more than it helps.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • BelladonnaCove

      @ MCDinBC : Didn't YOU vote for Obama ?

      December 28, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
  15. gaucho420

    Im sure the conservatives were also there when arguing against Galileo that the earth revolves around the sun and now, centuries later, we're still arguing ith the same idiots who argued with Galileo, this time over basic medical needs. When did conservatism become so against science? Oh that's right, when it was highjacked by the Christian right, which is poorly named as its NEITHER.

    December 28, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
    • Mark9988

      Yes, because this is exactly the same thing. Your analogy-drawing skills are superb.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
    • gaucho420

      It is the same thing, as its religious bases non-sense trying to fight versus logic and sanity. The fights has changed, but the lack of logic that myths trump basic logic applies.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
  16. Jimh77

    I'm not really sure what the real beef is here. It's insurance, why does a store owner care what the insurance pays for?
    It's really not their business. They are in the toy and hobby business and that is what they should be focusing on.

    December 28, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      Bingo!

      December 28, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
  17. EdD

    Hobby Lobby is still covering it's employees. There is zero reason they or anyone else should be forced to provide abortion pills. Pathetic that this is even a topic we need to resolve.

    December 28, 2012 at 6:53 pm |
    • gaucho420

      Your definition of abortion needs some MAJOR updating. The morning after pill takes effect and prevents fertilization, so it cannot be an abortion, as nothing's been aborted.

      December 28, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • EdD

      Whatever you want to call it does not change the fact that it is not medical care. It is convenience care. Companies are forced to provide something that goes against their fundamental values. They are not blocking healthcare for their employees. This is really a minor item in the big picture. A very minor item. Instead of giving in on this one item, the zealots refuse to accept anyone else's opinion in their pursuit of righteousness. Get real.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • Smokin Okie

      Hobby Lobby is breaking the law. Period. If they dont like the law then they should work to get it changed not insist upon violating it. I would love to be free to violate laws I do not agree with. Hobby Lobby and the Green family are typical of the christian hypocrites. They choose to openly violate laws and squeal "religious freedom" when they get caught. Their hypocrisy and egotistical profiteering make me sick. They are paying for abortion pills that their employees will be forced to take. They are paying for insurance that give an employee the pill if she chooses to take it. Its ironic that they will squeal about religious freedom of choice and want to deny religious freedom of choice ot their own employees. The Green family are nothing more than greedy hypocrites. like most christians. are self centered selfish control mongers.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
    • Sean

      So when did corperations become people with values? I don't go to McDonald's expecting they have a religious lean to them. Keep religion in churches and out of buisnesses... Provide the damn healthcare to those who want it/need it.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • EdD

      Smokin ...seriously? They are providing HC coverage. You act as though they are taking something away. What exactly are they taking away? A morning after pill? Holy G*D stop the presses. You and those like you need to focus on the big picture and stop getting your panties all tangled over the little things. Overreaction is a big problem by the self-righteous on both sides.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • Umm.....

      The morning after pill is classified as contraception, whether you fvcking like it or not, Erectile Dysfunction. Emergency contraception, and too fvcking bad if you don't like it, it is what it is. Something you'll never have a grasp on, since you're never going to EXPERIENCE what being a woman is like. So please, do shut the fvck up.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • Sean

      EdD

      You're the one making a mountain out of a mole hill. The company is providing the coverage, what that person does with that coverage if THEIR business and no one elses. If I go home and do non "godly" things with my wife what business is that of the company that hires me. I don't have an interview with a potential employer and ask "What religion is the owner because maybe at some point in the future my wife may need the morning after pill?"...

      December 28, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • sam

      It's not an abortion pill, dumbass!

      December 28, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Eddie, they're not "providing" or "not providing" any such thing, you dolt. It's emergency contraception, and the company is supposed to provide health care insurance that includes contraception. No ifs, ands, or buts.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • YPASFS

      Well, you're right, EdD, they shouldn't be forced t provide abortion pills. The emergency contraceptive pill isn't a abortion pill, so I'm unsure where you're going with this.................

      December 28, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      He's not going anywhere with it, since he has no argument. The fact is that the morning after pill is not the abortion pill. It is a contraceptive, just like any other contraceptive, and pretending that it's something else is nothing but a lie. No wonder people can't stand organized religions and the fundies who practice them.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • EdD

      The fun for me on CNN is trolling and watching all of these self-appointed intelligent people jumping to correct someone without reading their other posts. As I have stated in response to gaucho(or whatever), I know it's not not an abortion pill. I just like watching the self-righteous get their panties in a bunch. So how much energy does it take trying to invoke superiority over everyone else?

      December 28, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nope. It requires very little effort at all. Especially when you're the target of the post.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And you said in your original post that it was an abortion pill. Were you ignorant of the facts or just lying?

      December 28, 2012 at 8:08 pm |
  18. gaucho420

    So what's next? A Muslim owned store will sue because they can't make their female employees wear face veils? Then an Bhuddist store will sue over something else? The government needs to put an end to the belief that because you own a business, you can somehow impose your religious beliefs on your employees. Holding back contraception, due to religious beliefs, is religious tyranny imposed on the non-religious.

    December 28, 2012 at 6:51 pm |
    • lol??

      The tyranny is from granny state. You are not in good hands with allstatism.

      December 28, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • gaucho420

      No, tyranny is imposed by religious zealots who demand that we all live per their fables and myths.

      December 28, 2012 at 6:58 pm |
    • Hamsta

      So what's next? A Muslim owned store will sue because they can't make their female employees wear face veils? Then an Bhuddist store will sue over something else? The government needs to put an end to the belief that because you own a business, you can somehow impose your religious beliefs on your employees. Holding back contraception, due to religious beliefs, is religious tyranny imposed on the non-religious.

      December 28, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
  19. Wil

    doofus, the company is not forcing its opnions on the employees! You, as an applicant for employment with the Hobby Lobby Corporation knew their beliefs prior to you becoming employed. Therefore, you are trying to get the government to force their beilefs on an organization owned and operated by Christians. You da looser! Be prepared to be cut back on hours and no one but the managers and senior staff will become full time. For this, you can say thank you to the Obama administration.

    December 28, 2012 at 6:50 pm |
    • gaucho420

      A store's owners religious background should not trump anyone's ability to receive contraception, a basic medical care. What's next, Wil, Muslim owned stores can force female employees to wear veils and not eat pork?

      December 28, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • EdD

      gaucho their issue is with the abortion pill. Hardly basic medical care.

      December 28, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • gaucho420

      The morning after pill works before fertilization, SO IT IS NOT AN ABORTION! LEARN BASIC FACTS.

      December 28, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • EdD

      What's wrong precious? Don't like the term? I know the facts. I choose to call it that to watch people like you get all righteous.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      EdD

      gaucho their issue is with the abortion pill. Hardly basic medical care.

      .
      Educate yourself for dog's sake

      December 28, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • EdD

      The person below trying to tell me to educate myself, proves my point.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • Smokin Okie

      Hobby Lobby is breaking the law. Period. If they dont like the law then they should work to get it changed not insist upon violating it. I would love to be free to violate laws I do not agree with. Hobby Lobby and the Green family are typical christian hypocrites. They choose to openly violate laws and squeal "religious freedom" when they get caught. Their hypocrisy and egotistical profiteering make me sick. They are NOT paying for abortion pills that their employees will be FORCED to take. They are paying for insurance that give an employee the pill if she CHOOSES to take it. Its ironic that they will squeal about religious freedom of choice and want to deny religious freedom of choice to their own employees. The Green family are nothing more than greedy hypocrites. like most christians who are self centered selfish control mongers. If you want to run a business in America who must comply with the business laws. Otherwise go back to being a church. By the way nobody squeals louder about freedom, and choice than a bunch of hy[pcritical christians until somebody disagrees with them then they squeal about denying that same freedom and choice to the party who doesnt share their views.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • Sean

      EdD...

      You have your head so far up "gods" @$$ you can't hear what anyone is telling you.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • Umm.....

      Erectile Dysfunction, the morning after pill is not an abortion pill, you fvcking tard. Something tells me since you're too stupid to know that, you don't have many experiences waking up next to anyone except your blow-up doll.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • sam

      EdD...every time you post, god kills another baby.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
  20. luv2shortem

    so if Hobby Lobby doesn't believe in the minimum wage on religious grounds, would they be able to ignore minimum wage laws? we could take this religious exemption being sought to ridiculous because the government cannot control what religious doctrines should be. so a religion which can be formed by anbyone could simply adopt some illogical views as mantra and then we have chaos.

    December 28, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • DWWAJW

      Well in that instance, Hobby Lobby would have to demonstrate why the minimum wage would violate their religious faith which would likely be an insurmountable task if they paid ANY employee greater than minimum wage.

      I know you think your logic works, but it would fail in the courts.

      Most religions prohibit murder. Whether you personally beleive abortion or the morning after pill is murder is not relevant. What is relevant is that the owners accept that it is murder and therefore prohibited.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • YPASFS

      No, DWWAJW, they are mandated by law to provide contraceptive coverage, and the morning after pill is one, you know, being labeled emergency contaceptives and all. They're breaking the law. Don't worry, it'll give them more talking points for Rush and Beck to pontificate about. Oh, yeah, them beinga business and all, they are not qualified for the religious exemtion...boo hoo Hobby Lobby. They don't givea crap about taking the stinking money from the general public, not do they?

      December 28, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      People who believe that the morning after pill is murder are idiots, you included, D. You, especially, since it's been explained to you repeatedly that it is not.

      December 28, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.