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December 27th, 2012
07:20 PM ET
Hobby Lobby faces millions in fines for bucking ObamacareBy Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor Washington (CNN)– Craft store giant Hobby Lobby is bracing for a $1.3 million a day fine beginning January 1 for noncompliance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, dubbed Obamacare. The company opposes providing some contraceptives to employees through its company health care plan on religious grounds, saying some contraceptive products, like the morning after pill, equate to abortion. After failing to receive temporary relief from the fines from the Supreme Court, Hobby Lobby announced late Thursday through its attorneys that it "will continue to provide health insurance to all qualified employees. To remain true to their faith, it is not their intention, as a company, to pay for abortion-inducing drugs." In September, Hobby Lobby and affiliate Mardel, a Christian bookstore chain, sued the federal government for violating their owners' religious freedom and ability to freely exercise their religion. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter "All they're asking for is a narrow exemption from the law that says they don't have to provide drugs they believe cause abortions," Hobby Lobby attorney Kyle Duncan, a general counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, told CNN affiliate KFOR in November. "Our basic point is the government can't put a corporation in the position of choosing between its faith and following the law." The lawsuit says the companies' religious beliefs prohibit them from providing insurance coverage for abortion inducing drugs. As of August 2012, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act requires employer-provided health care plans to provide "all Food and Drug Administration approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures, and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity," according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Churches and houses of worship are exempt from the regulation and a narrow exemption was added for nonprofit religious employers whose employees "primarily share its religious tenets" and who "primarily serve persons who share its religious tenets." In the face of that opposition, the Department of Health and Human Services tweaked its original rule in February to require health insurers, not employers, to cover the cost of contraception coverage, reasoning that would prevent religious groups from having to finance such coverage. Critics have argued that exemption for nonprofits is far too narrow and a host of nonprofit religious groups have sued the administration over the regulations. The Internal Revenue Service regulations now say that a group health care plan that "fails to comply" with the Affordable Care Act is subject to an "excise tax" of "$100 per day per individual for each day the plan does not comply with the requirement." It remains unclear how the IRS would implement and collect the excise tax. The Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, based Hobby Lobby chain has more than 500 stores that employ 13,000 employees across 42 states, and takes in $2.6 billion in sales. The company's attorneys say January begins a new health care plan year for Hobby Lobby and that excise tax from the IRS would amount to $1.3 million a day. Hobby Lobby is owned by CEO and founder David Green and members of his family. "The foundation of our business has been, and will continue to be strong values, and honoring the Lord in a manner consistent with biblical principles," a statement on the Hobby Lobby website reads, adding that one outgrowth of that is the store is closed on Sundays to give its employees a day of rest. Each year the company also takes out full-page ads in numerous newspapers proclaiming its faith at Christmastime and on Independence Day. The store is not formally connected to any denomination, but the Green family supports numerous Christian ministries and is behind the Green Collection, one of the largest private collections of biblical antiquities in the world. The family plans to permanently house the collection in Washington at a museum set to open in 2016. On Friday, attorneys for Hobby Lobby petitioned the Supreme Court to intervene and provide temporary relief from the the fines until the case was decided by the U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Wednesday evening, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who handles emergency appeals from the 10th Circuit Court, said the company failed to meet "the demanding standard for the extraordinary relief," and that it could continue to pursue its challenge in lower courts and return to the higher court, if necessary, after a final judgment. "Hobby Lobby will continue their appeal before the 10th Circuit. The Supreme Court merely decided not to get involved in the case at this time," Duncan said in a statement. A spokesperson for the Justice Department declined to comment on the high court's move. White House officials have long said they believe they have struck an appropriate compromise between religious exemptions and women's health. The White House has not commented specifically on the Hobby Lobby case. "It's just so sad that Hobby Lobby is facing this choice. What company, even a successful family owned business like Hobby Lobby, how can they afford the government $1.3 million in fines every day? It's just really absurd that government is not giving on this," said Maureen Ferguson, a senior policy adviser for the Catholic Association. Religious liberty groups like hers are watching the Hobby Lobby case closely. "I am optimistic that these cases will eventually snake their way back up to the Supreme Court and given a full hearing on the merits of the case, I am confident that the Supreme Court will rule in favor of religious liberty," Ferguson said. "But in the meantime there is serious damage being done to businesses like Hobby Lobby and nonprofit charitable organizations." The Hobby Lobby case is just one of many before the courts over the religious exemption aspects of the law. The case represents by far the biggest for-profit group challenging the health care mandate. After this piece of the law went into effect in August, religious nonprofits were given "safe harbor" of one year from implementing the law. "In effect, the president is saying we have a year to figure out how to violate our consciences," Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, said in January when the administration announced the move. Dolan's New York Archdiocese won a victory this month in its legal battle against the administration and the mandate. In May it sued the government in federal court in Brooklyn over the mandate, saying it "unconstitutionally attempts to define the nature of the church's religious ministry and would force religious employers to violate their consciences." The government moved to have the case dismissed. On December 4, Judge Brian M. Cogan denied the government's motion to dismiss the case, saying the government's promise of changes to how it will implement the law were not enough to merit dismissal. "There is no, 'Trust us, changes are coming' clause in the Constitution," Cogan wrote in in his decision to let the case proceed. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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I wonder if Ricky Bobby ever went you Hobby Lobby...
Only for new members of this blog:
Condoms are available over the counter for less than 40 cents each. Make the Pill (type dependent on doctor’s evaluation) available over the counter and there will be no more debate. Planned Parenthood can offer deep discounts for those who say they cannot afford said protection. Ditto for the morning after pill which I believe is available OTC for women over seventeen.
Or better yet, put a pack of condoms and a box of Pills in cereal boxes. Unfortunately, that would not ensure the condoms and/or Pills would be used. Based on Guttmacher Insti-tute data, said condoms and/or Pills are currently not being used as they should. (one million abortions/yr and 19 million cases of S-TDs/yr because either the daily Pill was not taken or a condom stayed in the pocket.)
Maybe selling Pill-enriched sodas??? Hmmm?
Condom-fitted briefs for men?? Hmmm?
The door is open for other ideas!!!
=================================================================
Just as college kids are required to have vaccines to start school, high school and college students could be required to take birth control vaccines, once the right technology is in place.
The main problem, however, is in determining the extent to which fear of pregnancy keeps STDs at bay by reucing numbers of partners and encouraging condom use. You may want simple to have "vaccines" that reduce se'x drive, at least until age 18.
Added details to go along with Saraswati comments:
Currently, a perfect STD/contraceptive barrier system does not exist. Time to develop one! In the meantime, mono-ma-sturbation or mutual ma-sturbation are highly recommended for hete-rose-xuals who need a contraceptive. Abstinence is another best-solution but obviously the se-x drive typically vitiates this option although being biological would it not be able to develop a drug to temporarily eliminate said drive?
Most of you seem to be missing the point of all this. The Government has no business telling Americans they have to buy something from the government or they will be punished. If I start a company and I worship Satan and my company policy is that anyone caught wearing a cross to work, or reading a bible in the breakroom will be terminated, I don't want the government telling me, I can't do that. If I want to go to work for that company and I know their policy, then I make the decision of whether or not I can live with their beliefs, in exchange for a paycheck that I will gladly spend.
right on blue
The problem is that you are assuming you will always be able to live by those rules. Do you realize that there is not, as most Americans believe, a law that requires Saudi women to cover their faces and be kept from the workplace? What there are are government policies that allow companies to do just that. Your looking at something that (for you) is a small issue. But these general rules apply to much bigger issues that limit the ability of minority groups to live and work comfortably, and of industry to work in the most efficient manner, where the most qualified candidates are free to match to the most appropriate jobs.
If you drive you are required to have auto insurance, if you breathe you are required to have health insurance. I am tired of paying for those too cheap to buy health insurance and then stick the hospital when they require care. I am tired of the conservative principal of everything for everybody and nobody has to pay for anything. We need to man up and pay our way.
@kurt, Ditto. And let me add that I'm tired of idiots who say they're happy to be left on the road to die rather than carry insurance, without understanding even the most basic sociological concepts that would explain why this would never happen. I'm tired of people who live in a fantasy world and are to lazy and selfish to understand how humans in general and our culture in particular actually function. And I'm most tired of the fact their ignorance is so deep they can't understand how stupid they sound.
Hobby Lobby's corporate christian core value is based on the Golden Rule: who has the most gold makes the rule
yep but not them
Sounds like some people believe that the Federal government is always right and we should accept it. Remember when women weren't allowed to vote. Most men don't get a choice when it comes to providing for a child, No one's telling thier employees they can't use birth control, they just think that if you want to drop your panties, you should pay for it.
Well Bill, I take it you think we should also be allowed to deny healthcare to the 50% of americans who raised their risk of illness by eating enough to be overweight?
if your thinking about having a abortion please dont allso dont let the proabort and procontrceptive evil ones fool you hobby lobby and mother theresa of callcutta are right these are among the greatest of sins.stay clear of all those who wish to destroy life and your very soul.
Spoken like a man who will never have to make that choice for himself. How many unwanted kids have you adopted?
I have had it up to my eyeballs. WHY DOES no onever mention that the morning after pill IS NOT AN ABORTIFACIENT? It works just like birthcontrol. If a women is pregnant when ingested it does not harm the fetus.UUGGHHH!! SO FRUSTRATED
Because they're STUPID!
These folks are not generally too bright. ETS used to record SAT scores by religious affiliation for statistical purposes, but the low scores among fundementalist groups were such an embarrassment they were pressured to drop the data.
Ummm.. You said that if she's pregnant it does not harm the fetus.
What would be the POINT of a morning after pill, if not to get rid of a fetus? Just because the fetus is only a day old, doesn't mean it is not a fetus. It IS a form of abortion. You can not say it is like a form of birth control is you are using it AFTER the fact. Birth Control is preventative. Abortion is trying to clean up your mistakes after the fact.
@No an Idiot, What she means is that is the woman is pregnant the pill has not effect.
Notta, what it means that if the egg has been implanted in the uterine wall already, the pill won't work.
TO ALL HAVE A NICE WEEKEND AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR. TIME FOR ME TO GO HOME. BYE.
mago dont go to sleep yet you may never wake up
I find it hilarious that old davey wants to tell women they should not take a morning after pill, but wishes death upon another person. Hypocrite.
hal hal they kill little tiny babies
I hope it puts the Religious freaks out of business, They have no right to judge others the same as if we told them to give up their guns or have their tubes untied.
I think a more apt analogy would be a federal law mandating employers to buy guns for their employees. Business owners that believe that more guns just create more violence would just have to put their opinions aside and obey the government.
Jesus hates abortions but loves guns.
Jesus remained celibate because Hobbly Sloppy's corporate policy against extra marital activities
here is the deal Ken- no matter what you think of their religous beliefs the fact is the government is putting out of business an American Company, and 13,000 americans. That is ridiculous!
@loveall, are you arguing that a company should be allowed to break they law if it employs enough people? Where would you draw the line? Wave safety laws, se'xual harassment, minimum wage requirements? We establish policies for the good of the worker. You may not agree with all policies, likely no one agrees with all, but we have to uphold the law.
I guess loveall thinks we should let everyone disobey the law if they're 100% AMURICAN.
Ken, are you for serious right now? These "Religious Freaks" are not judging others because they don't want to sell the morning after pill in their stores. It is one of their personal beliefs, and the last time I checked America is all about "co-existing" and stuff, until it comes to Christians standing up for not only what they believe in, but what is right. They're not judging because they've made a personal choice. But everyone else is judging them for the personal decision they've made. That doesn't sound very fair to me.
Sidenote: I know (because my school was one of the recipients) that Hobby Lobby gives ABUNDANTLY from what they make. And putting them out of business would not only hurt them, but hundreds of other businesses and schools across America. So you can calm down anytime now.
@Not an Idiot, The issue isn't about judging, but about the need for standards. If some company thinks its OK to se'xually harass workers or provide unsafe working conditions we don't just say "OK". We set minimum standards, sometimes right, sometimes wrong, but always our best effort as a society. We have rules and we enforce them. If you don't like the rule, work to change it.
sorry i posted twice im new on this computer but i bet a lot sharper than you who think abortfacionts kill a living person who is the dum dum here
Everyone knows who the dumdum is, davey.
When did you have your lobotomy?
Da fuq goin on in here? What are you whining about, fool?
I will take that bet
Good evening, "david". "david", some of my subscribers, particularly those on IX are confused about your use of the expression "abortfacionts". They are asking that you share with us. If you'll indeed illuminate the meaning behind this expression for me, I will gladly share this with my subscribers. Thank you in advance, "david".
David...you drunk, homey. Go to bed.
Davey, does your new computer's keyboard have punctuation marks?
TheVocalAtheist wrote on December 28, 2012 at 10:28 pm, "Cowardly Lion, If you hate this world so much why don't you just do yourself in? Oh, that's right you won't get into heaven, right? Allow me to declare that you are one certifiable whack-a-doo!"
I don't hate the world. I hate many of the fvcking parents who see abortion as the 'easy way out'! Such persons are so perverted they would rather abort a child than face the consequences of their s e x u a l deeds done! I have no sympathies for such of life's ilk! May they get what they deserve come heaven or hell or high waters!
You'd better hope your god has mercy on YOU before you start worrying about others' so-called "sins", you illicit licentious old fart. Stop bothering people. You're a loon.
Whose high waters? They did that once. I don't think he'll go with that plan again. It made a mess of everything.
@lion said "I hate this fvcked up world...
Loopy Lunatic, you don't have ANY business judging others. You aren't qualified. You've committed your own sins and have no right to tell others what eternity they should 'fear.' Mind your own black soul.
You have never in your life faced the prospect of an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy. You never have; you never will. Until you have, shut the fvck up.
Eight on Very well said.
tom tom did you not no thats a sin ask ummm he does it all the time .i bet your as nutty as a fruit cake to .get over it proaborts soon you will have to give account to i am who iam.he dont get along with child abuse or people who use abortfacionts.remember abortion is murder abortion is contrception excuse my spelling i was kicked out of high school '
I'll bet you were. Scratch that. You never got that far.
"i was kicked out of high school "
LOL
Congrats. Retard.
I think you got kicked out of second grade and never went to high school. Your writing is indecipherable (that means it makes no sense).
What's beyond belief in most of these fundies' posts is that the morning after pill will PREVENT pregnancy and any need or reason for an abortion! What part of that is beyond you morons? Why, why, why don't you get an education and stop being such stupid asses?
Education is a foreign concept for them to understand.
These people have to be republicans! They don't deal with reality. They complain about "moochers" being on public assistance, but wont let the moochers use birth control so they wont be moochers. They are pro life and pro gun. These people tie themselves into a knot trying to be everything to everybody.
But how can there be so many idiots??? Can't they read? Why can't they figure out that what is being required is not an "abortion pill"? How stupid can they be and still manage to figure out which way is up? Can they not tell their asses from holes in the ground?
@Tom Tom
They got their bibles jammed up 'there' too tight.
One word RELIGION.
They outwardly refuse to read, I swear. I know many that will not read anything about science. They can't get their heads around it. They're freaking robots, no, robots have better reasoning skills. They would never watch an episode of The Big Bang Theory, never consider evolution, in fact they will tell you to "hush-up" when you speak of evolution. It's beyond incredible.
The morning after pill works by several mechanisms, one of which is preventing an embryo from implanting in the uterus. That kills the embryo, and this is what the anti-abortion position is opposed to.
No, it doesn't, you liar. You're no teacher of biology or anything else, you fraud.
Reading is hard. Plus religious folks like to be told what to think, then believe it.
One type of emergency contraception (Plan B One-Step, Next Choice, Levonorgestrel Tablets) is made of one of the hormones made by a woman's body — progestin. Another type (ella) blocks the body's own progestin.
Both types of emergency contraception work by keeping a woman's ovaries from releasing eggs — ovulation. Pregnancy cannot happen if there is no egg to join with sperm.
You might have also heard that the morning-after pill causes an abortion. But that's not true. The morning-after pill is not the abortion pill. Emergency contraception is birth control, not abortion.
Morning-after pills can help prevent pregnancy if you've had unprotected s3x — whether you didn't use birth control, you missed a birth control pill or your method of birth control failed.
Morning-after pills can prevent pregnancy because conception typically doesn't occur immediately after s3x. Instead, it may happen up to several days later. During the time between s3x and conception, sperm travel through the fallopian tubes until they potentially reach an egg. As a result, using emergency contraception soon after unprotected s3x isn't too late to prevent pregnancy.
Morning-after pills do not end a pregnancy that has implanted. Depending on where you are in your menstrual cycle, morning-after pills may act by one or more of the following actions: delaying or preventing ovulation, blocking fertilization, or keeping a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. However, recent evidence strongly suggests that Plan B One-Step and Next Choice do not inhibit implantation. It's not clear if the same is true for Ella.
Keep in mind that the morning-after pill isn't the same as mifepristone (Mifeprex), also known as RU-486 or the abortion pill. Mifeprex terminates an established pregnancy — one in which the fertilized egg has attached to the uterine wall and has already begun to develop.
Tom Tom..you're going to blow this blog up with all these facts.
Abort, abort, abort! Keep sane the insanities of abortions! Keep sane the bittersweet memories of lovemaking without its ending to be a child wanted! Be then liberal minded but when a child rears itself up, get rid of it! I hate this fvcked up world and its uncaring desires for children! No damn wonder many kids today are growing up wrong!
You who do the deed and have fallback plans are fvcking perverted mothers and fathers! No wonder kids are growing up less civil and even less moral! They see and know that their parents will dare abort their soon to be sister or brother! Like parents do your children suffer in the rants and raves of abortion being the legal avenues to escape life's s e x u a l consequences! What a fvcking life people live who use abortion as a means to an end!
The tragedies of life is in the unborn being treated as but a lump of flesh, a cancer to be cut off! Fvcking perverted people who dares not treat life with honor and grace but chooses to discard it as being worse than the dirt we are all made from!
You babbling old fool. Do you have any children? For humanity's sake, I hope not.
You have no clue what you're burping here, Lying Loser.
Cowardly Lion
If you hate this world so much why don't you just do yourself in? Oh, that's right you won't get into heaven, right? Allow me to declare that you are one certifiable whack-a-doo!
It's amusing to watch the old stew bum rant about the wonders of children and pregnancy when he's never had experience with either.
@LL.................If the church would stop interfering with peoples chance to get birth control you wouldn't have abortions.
Ken Margo,
I am no church goer! I believe our bodies to be the buildings/temples of God whose family trees live inside us and take residencies within our bodies! 54,000,00 plus doctor assisted abortion here in the USA since 1973 till 2011! 54 million abortions! What a waste of children all just wanting a chance for life being so conceived in a mother's womb and why do they truly deserve to remain an unborn lump of flesh, a cancer to be sliced out? Fvcking perverted system abortion is!
How many unwanted children have YOU adopted, you smelly old man?
Once again LL.............IF PEOPLE CAN GET EASY ACCESS TO BIRTH CONTROL, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ABORTIONS. WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO UNDERSTAND. PLEASE PULL YOUR HEAD OUT YOUR AZZ. WIPE THE SH IT OUT YOUR EYES AND DEAL WITH REALITY.
Ken, I think YOU'RE going to blow up this blog with facts. 😉
Ken Margo,
HOW LONG HAS THE PILL BEEN ON THE MARKET AND STILL THERE ARE DOCTOR ASSISTED ABORTIONS? I BLAME THE ONES WHO WANT THE DEED OF DOING WITHOUT THE CONSIDERATIONS OF CONCEPTION BECOMING A REALITY! LIKE I SAID THEY HAVE A PERVERTED REALITY AND DO NOT CONSIDER THEIR CONSEQUENCES. ABORTIONS ARE THE FVCKING SCURGES OF SOCIETIES HERE IN THE USA! 54+ MILLION ABORTIONS IS NO CAKE WALK!
I'm sorry, "lionlylamb", but 54 million abortions in the U.S.A. since 1973 is, in fact, a "cake walk". It is roughly the equivalent of the amount of population increase for the states of California and Arizona over the same time period – just two of the fifty states.
Prayers work. Proven.
I just want to get noticed (sorry)
I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
Hilarious.
I got noticed . Yoohoo !
umm its wrong to call your elders names.rememberwatch your temper and think a little you might allso find many forms of abortion controception pills are offered by pres .plans ..you all are good with words but us christians see through your ignorance ever been burned alive try saline on your face concentrated'or have brains sucked .yours were long ago
So nice you posted twice. Whom are you addressing, ding-dong?
hey hmmm your not as smart as you think. its wrong to call your elders names.rememberwatch your temper and think a little deeper about abortion and controcepetion. you might allso find many forms of abortion controception pills are offered by pres .plans ..you all are good with words but us christians see through your ignorance ever been burned alive try saline on your face concentrated'or have brains sucked .yours were long ago
hey hmmm (Who's Hmmm?) your (It's "YOU'RE") not as smart as you think. its wrong to call your elders names.rememberwatch your temper and think a little deeper about abortion and controcepetion (THAT'S CONTRACEPTION). you might allso find many forms of abortion controception (YOU DO KNOW THAT ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION ARE NOT THE SAME THING, RIGHT?) pills are offered by pres .plans ..you all are good with words but us christians see through your ignorance ever been burned alive try saline on your face concentrated'(SALINE IS JUST SALT WATER, OR IS THAT A REVELATION?) or have brains sucked (UMM, YOU DO KNOW THAT ISN'T LEGAL, DON'T YOU?) .yours were long ago (DO TELL. AND YOU KNOW THIS HOW? WHEN YOU CAN'T EVEN FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE "REPLY"?
Hey, Hmmm, you're not as smart as you think. It's wrong to call your elders names. Remember, watch your temper and think a little deeper about abortion and contraception. You might also find many forms of abortion contraception pills are offered by present plans ...you all are good with words but Christians see through your ignorance. Ever been burned alive? Try concetrated saline on your face, or have your brains sucked out. Mine were, long ago.
This is the best I could do with this post; however, I could not inject it with any truth. Except for the last sentence, that is. Too bad, so sad.
You posted the same thing 3 times.
Just though you'd want to know that before calling someone else ignorant, you should probably overcome your ignorance of the reply button.
hey hmmm your not as smart as you think. its wrong to call your elders names.rememberwatch your temper and think a little deeper about abortion and controcepetion. you might allso find many forms of abortion controcepyion pills are offered by pres .plans ..you all are good with words but us christians see through your ignorance ever been burned alive try saline on your face concentrated'or have brains sucked .yours were long ago
frank, you're hilarious.
deFrank, you're illiterate.
This is why I don't watch CNN. Reading the comments here. If you owned a business, and the government forced you to pay for something for your employees that you found morally objectionable, what would you do? Just forget your morals and go along? The problem is, people have NO MORALS anymore, so anything goes, and those WITH morals need to just forget them and go along. No wonder people in our nation have no respect for other human life. Never have I had to pay for someone else's abortion drugs until now. I'm sorry, but someday I am going to have to give an account to God, and I don't want to find out that I paid for the destruction of someone's child. I don't have health insurance right now, and I WILL pay the fine if I have to in order to keep my conscience clear.
Lots of people are killing others right now, should I go along with that? If so, where do you live?
What kind of abortion drugs are you speaking of, Carol? Is that really part of the picture – abortion drugs?? You mean you take one, and stand over the toilet, and the bloody thing just pops out?? Really??
My word, there are a lot of idiots out there.
You don't have healthcare now? Do me a favor, if you get sick or hurt DON'T go to a hospital. I don't want to pay your bill.
What's sad, Ken, is that Carol is desperately in need of psychiatric care and some meds. She's a wackaloon.
Carol, are you really that distant from reality? How did you get this way? What don't you understand? No woman is being forced to take birth control or have abortions. Hopefully the people that think like you will figure out sooner than later that you don't have the right to tell a woman what and what she cannot do with her life and her body. It blows my mind that your words are coming from a so called female mouth. What's up with that?
The dividing line between freedon of religion and duty to obey the law is pretty simple.
Believing that a Bronze Age Israeli sky-god busies itself about how humans have $ex is fine. Delusional, but fine.
Basing public policy, corporate policy or breaking laws based on this belief is not.
@Colin "Basing public policy, corporate policy or breaking laws based on this belief is not."
@Chad "really??
wow, ok, so you aren't familiar with our constitutionally guaranteed right to freedom of religion?
Note especially the part about "exercise"
Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
Oh, look, Chard thinks he's hooked himself a live one. Now watch while he proceeds to pontificate.
Then will follow the 😉 😉 ;), and after that you'll see ====> and @Chad about 49 times.
It's too bad Chard doesn't just go buy himself an inflatable date and jack off.