December 27th, 2012
07:20 PM ET

Hobby Lobby faces millions in fines for bucking Obamacare

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
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Washington (CNN)– Craft store giant Hobby Lobby is bracing for a $1.3 million a day fine beginning January 1 for noncompliance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, dubbed Obamacare.

The company opposes providing some contraceptives to employees through its company health care plan on religious grounds, saying some contraceptive products, like the morning after pill, equate to abortion.

After failing to receive temporary relief from the fines from the Supreme Court, Hobby Lobby announced late Thursday through its attorneys that it "will continue to provide health insurance to all qualified employees. To remain true to their faith, it is not their intention, as a company, to pay for abortion-inducing drugs."

In September, Hobby Lobby and affiliate Mardel, a Christian bookstore chain, sued the federal government for violating their owners' religious freedom and ability to freely exercise their religion.

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"All they're asking for is a narrow exemption from the law that says they don't have to provide drugs they believe cause abortions," Hobby Lobby attorney Kyle Duncan, a general counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, told CNN affiliate KFOR in November. "Our basic point is the government can't put a corporation in the position of choosing between its faith and following the law."

The lawsuit says the companies' religious beliefs prohibit them from providing insurance coverage for abortion inducing drugs. As of August 2012, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act requires employer-provided health care plans to provide "all Food and Drug Administration approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures, and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity," according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Churches and houses of worship are exempt from the regulation and a narrow exemption was added for nonprofit religious employers whose employees "primarily share its religious tenets" and who "primarily serve persons who share its religious tenets."

In the face of that opposition, the Department of Health and Human Services tweaked its original rule in February to require health insurers, not employers, to cover the cost of contraception coverage, reasoning that would prevent religious groups from having to finance such coverage. Critics have argued that exemption for nonprofits is far too narrow and a host of nonprofit religious groups have sued the administration over the regulations.

The Internal Revenue Service regulations now say that a group health care plan that "fails to comply" with the Affordable Care Act is subject to an "excise tax" of "$100 per day per individual for each day the plan does not comply with the requirement." It remains unclear how the IRS would implement and collect the excise tax.

The Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, based Hobby Lobby chain has more than 500 stores that employ 13,000 employees across 42 states, and takes in $2.6 billion in sales. The company's attorneys say January begins a new health care plan year for Hobby Lobby and that excise tax from the IRS would amount to $1.3 million a day.

Hobby Lobby is owned by CEO and founder David Green and members of his family. "The foundation of our business has been, and will continue to be strong values, and honoring the Lord in a manner consistent with biblical principles," a statement on the Hobby Lobby website reads, adding that one outgrowth of that is the store is closed on Sundays to give its employees a day of rest. Each year the company also takes out full-page ads in numerous newspapers proclaiming its faith at Christmastime and on Independence Day.

The store is not formally connected to any denomination, but the Green family supports numerous Christian ministries and is behind the Green Collection, one of the largest private collections of biblical antiquities in the world. The family plans to permanently house the collection in Washington at a museum set to open in 2016.

On Friday, attorneys for Hobby Lobby petitioned the Supreme Court to intervene and provide temporary relief from the the fines until the case was decided by the U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver.

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Wednesday evening, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who handles emergency appeals from the 10th Circuit Court, said the company failed to meet "the demanding standard for the extraordinary relief," and that it could continue to pursue its challenge in lower courts and return to the higher court, if necessary, after a final judgment.

"Hobby Lobby will continue their appeal before the 10th Circuit. The Supreme Court merely decided not to get involved in the case at this time," Duncan said in a statement.

A spokesperson for the Justice Department declined to comment on the high court's move.

White House officials have long said they believe they have struck an appropriate compromise between religious exemptions and women's health. The White House has not commented specifically on the Hobby Lobby case.

"It's just so sad that Hobby Lobby is facing this choice. What company, even a successful family owned business like Hobby Lobby, how can they afford the government $1.3 million in fines every day? It's just really absurd that government is not giving on this," said Maureen Ferguson, a senior policy adviser for the Catholic Association. Religious liberty groups like hers are watching the Hobby Lobby case closely.

"I am optimistic that these cases will eventually snake their way back up to the Supreme Court and given a full hearing on the merits of the case, I am confident that the Supreme Court will rule in favor of religious liberty," Ferguson said. "But in the meantime there is serious damage being done to businesses like Hobby Lobby and nonprofit charitable organizations."

The Hobby Lobby case is just one of many before the courts over the religious exemption aspects of the law. The case represents by far the biggest for-profit group challenging the health care mandate.

After this piece of the law went into effect in August, religious nonprofits were given "safe harbor" of one year from implementing the law. "In effect, the president is saying we have a year to figure out how to violate our consciences," Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, said in January when the administration announced the move.

Dolan's New York Archdiocese won a victory this month in its legal battle against the administration and the mandate. In May it sued the government in federal court in Brooklyn over the mandate, saying it "unconstitutionally attempts to define the nature of the church's religious ministry and would force religious employers to violate their consciences."

The government moved to have the case dismissed. On December 4, Judge Brian M. Cogan denied the government's motion to dismiss the case, saying the government's promise of changes to how it will implement the law were not enough to merit dismissal. "There is no, 'Trust us, changes are coming' clause in the Constitution," Cogan wrote in in his decision to let the case proceed.

UPDATE: Hobby Lobby's $1.3 million Obamacare loophole

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church and state

soundoff (5,627 Responses)
  1. david defrank

    taxy yes roe will be overturned as soon as us catholics vote catholic

    December 31, 2012 at 7:52 am |
    • Primewonk

      You ignorant fucking fundiot nutters had the perfect storm from 2000 – 2006. You owned the White House, Senate, House, and SCOTUS. Yet Roe was not overturned. Why? Let's see if you are smart enough to figure it out.

      December 31, 2012 at 11:51 am |
  2. david defrank

    hey please listen. the morning after pill kills a already concieved embryo ....it allso does harm to the endometrium.so allthose similar to morning have been approved.you go hobby lobby.

    December 31, 2012 at 7:49 am |
    • Primewonk

      More fucking bullshit david. Plan B's mode of operation is to delay ovulation, preventing the egg from meeting the sperm. Plan B has absolutely no effect on a zygote. Why do you nutters keep lying?

      December 31, 2012 at 11:57 am |
  3. Tax the Rich

    I think it is about time America turned the tables on the Christian Right and began shoving secular laws down their throats for a change. It will not be long now before marriage equality is national and Roe v. Wade will never be over-turned in America not he way the war on woman is being conducted by the right in this nation. Now if we could just nullify the Christian's tax exempt status the world could be a peace. A-men !!!

    December 31, 2012 at 1:35 am |
  4. Tia

    I am a Hobby Lobby employee and a FEMALE and I think this is wrong. Insurance is a privilege not a right. If the employee wants something not covered (there are other things not covered like VISION, WEIGHT LOSS SURGERY,VITAMINS) then they have the right to use the federal cafeteria plan. They can set aside up to $2500.00 per year for those items. I don't think this medication should be any different.

    December 30, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Then get the law changed. As of now, birth control is considered part of basic health care, and it is therefore incu mbent upon Hobby Lobby to provide an insurance plan that covers it. The other health-related costs you cited are not considered basic. What you think is "wrong" makes no difference. It reduces the number of unplanned pregnancies, which often result in lower-birth-weight babies, more birth defects. Women spend about 75% of their reproductive years trying NOT to get pregnant. Why shouldn't insurance plans cover something so basic to life as that?

      December 30, 2012 at 10:06 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Just like what she thinks is "wrong" isn't germane, what you think is "right" is not germane. What is on the table is who gets to decide, does government get to decide when we will violate our personal religious convictions? Hobby Lobby is working to change a law that they see, along with 42 other litigants nationwide, as unconstiitutional. While they are litigating the case they are merely asking for a suspension of the fines which are designed to force them into compliance. Imagine someone holding a million dollar gun to your head and demanding you do something you find morally objectionable Tom though I can't imagine what that might be.

      December 31, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, Billy, what I think is "right" is for HL to obey the law. If they don't want to, they can either pay a fine or leave the country to carry on their business.

      Our laws don't force the owners to take the drug. They aren't being forced to do anything but provide their employees with the coverage required by law. Too bad if their religious convictions are such that they don't wish to do that. If they are that bothered, they should stop operating here. After all, they ought to have the courage of their convictions, right? If they do, they'd move out of a country that isn't ruled by their beliefs.

      December 31, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
  5. Reality

    Only for the new members of this blog: Why no one should be required to pay for the stupidity of many men and women-

    The reality of se-x, abortion, contraception and STD/HIV control: – from an agnostic guy who enjoys intelligent se-x-

    Note: Some words hyphenated to defeat an obvious word filter. ...

    The Brutal Effects of Stupidity:

    : The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the Pill (8.7% actual failure rate) and male con-dom (17.4% actual failure rate) have led to the large rate of abortions and S-TDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or co-ndoms properly and/or use safer methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.- Failure rate statistics provided by the Gut-tmacher Inst-itute. Unfortunately they do not give the statistics for doubling up i.e. using a combination of the Pill and a condom.

    Added information before making your next move:

    from the CDC-2006

    "Se-xually transmitted diseases (STDs) remain a major public health challenge in the United States. While substantial progress has been made in preventing, diagnosing, and treating certain S-TDs in recent years, CDC estimates that approximately 19 million new infections occur each year, almost half of them among young people ages 15 to 24.1 In addition to the physical and psy-ch-ological consequences of S-TDs, these diseases also exact a tremendous economic toll. Direct medical costs as-sociated with STDs in the United States are estimated at up to $14.7 billion annually in 2006 dollars."

    And from:

    Consumer Reports, January, 2012

    "Yes, or-al se-x is se-x, and it can boost cancer risk-

    Here's a crucial message for teens (and all se-xually active "post-teeners": Or-al se-x carries many of the same risks as va-ginal se-x, including human papilloma virus, or HPV. And HPV may now be overtaking tobacco as the leading cause of or-al cancers in America in people under age 50.

    "Adolescents don’t think or-al se-x is something to worry about," said Bonnie Halpern-Felsher professor of pediatrics at the University of California, San Francisco. "They view it as a way to have intimacy without having 's-ex.'" (It should be called the Bill Clinton Syndrome !!)

    Obviously, political leaders in both parties, Planned Parenthood, parents, the "stupid part of the USA" and the educational system have failed miserably on many fronts.

    The most effective forms of contraception, ranked by "Perfect use":
    – (Abstinence, 0% failure rate)
    – (Masturbation, mono or mutual, 0% failure rate)
    Followed by:
    One-month injectable and Implant (both at 0.05 percent)
    Vasectomy and IUD (Mirena) (both at 0.1 percent)
    The Pill, Three-month injectable, and the Patch (all at 0.3 percent)
    Tubal sterilization (at 0.5 percent)
    IUD (Copper-T) (0.6 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Post-ovulation) (1.0 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Symptothermal) and Male condom (both at 2.0 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Ovulation method) (3.0 percent)

    Every other method ranks below these, including Withdrawal (4.0), Female condom (5.0), Diaphragm (6.0), Periodic abstinence (calendar) (9.0), the Sponge (9.0-20.0, depending on whether the woman using it has had a child in the past), Cervical cap (9.0-26.0, with the same caveat as the Sponge), and Spermicides (18.0).

    December 30, 2012 at 7:53 am |
    • Question

      So are you saying Hobby Lobby is, or is not responsible for someone else's stupidity?

      December 30, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • Reality

      Obviously, no citizen/corporate taxpayer should be paying for the stupidity of men and women who cannot follow simple directions on the packages of Pills and condoms.

      December 30, 2012 at 11:31 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The employers aren't paying for anyone's "stupidity", you idiots. They are providing access to health insurance. Period. That is what they SHOULD be doing. Hobby Lobby is breaking the law. They deserve to be fined. And Unreality, you ought to be required to pay a fine for spamming your stupid crap here. Do you really think ANYBODY reads your posts because they're "NEW" here? You obviously think you're providing some kind of public service, but the fact is that you're a troll who is also boring as hell.

      December 30, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • Saraswati

      So you want to provide emergency contraception and abortion so we don't have to pay the pregnancy expenses of those who were stupid? Sounds good to me.

      December 30, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Reality, get your head out of your ass. Many health issues people have are the result of bad choices and poor lifestyle. So what? Hypertension is often caused by factors people could control. So is heart disease, lung cancer, diabetes, and a host of other maladies. They're covered, aren't they? This has nothing to do with cost or "paying for stupidity" you dishonest bozo. It is purely a case of the owners trying to force the employees to live by their beliefs.

      Stop lying.

      December 30, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yeah, Saraswati, that's what Reality wants to do. He also would LOVE to punish women for their sin of having s3x by forcing them to get pregnant and give birth against their will, instead of taking responsibility and using a medication to prevent said pregnancy from occurring–and one of those medications is Plan B, the morning-after pill.

      December 30, 2012 at 11:45 am |
    • Reality


      Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or co-ndoms properly and/or use safer methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.- And Hobby Lobby et al should not be forced to subsidize the irresponsible members of society until said persons act responsibly.


      December 31, 2012 at 12:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, gee, because that's your opinion, Unreality? What you believe they "shouldn't" have to do is about as relevant as a fart in a windstorm.

      But do go on repeating your stupidity. It just reinforces what most people here think of you.

      December 31, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
  6. juleslegal

    Hobby Lobby better watch out. Employees could file discrimination cases based on religion if their employer wants to cram religion down their throats by denying health care benefits. Fines + discrimination lawsuits = bye bye business.

    December 30, 2012 at 5:27 am |
    • wesmarshall

      Ah, Obamacare...more "make work" for lawyers. So not providing birth control, abortifacients, and sterilization services is "discrimination based on religion"? It's amazing how liberty is taking body punches from leftist loons these days.

      December 30, 2012 at 6:49 am |
    • Luci H

      And the wonderful thing about our free society is this – if you don't like it, you can always look for work elsewhere. No one is forcing you to work for this employer. It's not like they flip flopped their position after you were hired.

      December 30, 2012 at 8:14 am |
    • Randi

      I agree! I don't think it matters what religious beliefs the owners have. Give your employees the same rights as everyone else, and let them decided what birth control methods they do or do not believe in! If I were an employee I would be very angry that my employers were trying to push their beliefs onto me!!!

      December 30, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Randi

      And No Lucy, Someone should not have to get a new job because of their employers religious beliefs.

      December 30, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • Akira

      Birth control pills are used in a variety of ways that are not necessarily related to preventing conception.
      My daughter has PCOS, and she takes them; she is a virgin, and you're bloody right I want that covered by my prescription plan.
      The morning after pill is not an abortifacient, no matter how much Rush and O'Reilly tell you it is.
      And I had to have a hysterectomy because I had cancer; that is a sterilization procedure that you're bloody right I want covered by my insurance.
      Please do not weigh in matters concerning women until you are in possession of all the facts; sweeping generalizations such as yours are absolutely ridiculous.

      December 30, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
  7. CoAvs

    It it hilaous when also these pro lifers come out of the woodwork. The "pro" life crowds positions are the furthest thing from supporting life. They vote against help for single mothers, education, science and research, health insurance for struggling families, amoung other things promote healthy lives. I wonder how many of the pro lifers donate to save children from extreme poverty like I did this year? The pro lifers are nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites worrying about utteri when there are millions of staving children around the globe. If even half the effort that these pro lifers put into fighting abortion were put into fignting extreme poverty we could dramatically reduce the number of preventable deaths of children.

    December 30, 2012 at 1:14 am |
    • campbellrestored

      Did you pull this propaganda straight off Reddit or something? Most if not all of the pro-lifers I know are actively involved in helping the unborn as well as those alive and in need. They help the homeless, single parents, third world countries etc. And just so you know, your argument of focusing on helping the children already alive was one of the main arguments of those who lied and manipulated the situation to get the original abortion laws pushed through (they themselves admit they lied about stats, look up Roe vs. Wade). The truth is that since that time abuse of children has only increased, and dramatically. The worth of life has dropped dramatically. The pro-life position emphasizes the worth of ALL life, born and in the womb. Get your facts right before you start spouting off.

      December 30, 2012 at 2:06 am |
    • RY

      The owner of this company has done more to help people in need in one day than you could ever do in a lifetime. Get off your high horse.

      December 30, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The issue of what the owners have or have not done to "help" anyone is irrelevant. They are breaking the law. That's the end of the story, RY.

      Tough toenails if you think the law is "unfair." You don't get to decide that. Neither do they.

      December 30, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • RY

      So Tom Tom, you believe in one compromising their beliefs to pay for what someone else believes in. To answer your question about the blood transfusion issue, if a person doesn't like the benefits a company offers then they can look for another job period. You are not forced to work there and should not expect someone to go against what they believe in period!

      December 30, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So, by your response, RY, I assume you believe that any company should be able to deny its employees a lunch break and bathroom breaks, any health care insurance whatsoever, a safe workplace that follows OSHA guidelines, etc., right?

      Guess what, moron: those are the kinds of conditions that employers offered - back in the 19th and early 20th century. That's why the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire killed dozens of women. Most employers won't "give" their employees ANYTHING unless they're required to do so by law, and that is WHY we have such laws. The owners of this company do NOT have the right to do whatever their 'faith' tells them they should if it violates the laws of the country in which the corporation operates. If they don't like those laws, they can appeal, as they've done, pay a fine, or go elsewhere. What part of that escapes your admittedly limited understanding?

      December 30, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why don't you keep your promise and stop responding to my posts, RY? You are incapable of making any cogent argument whatsoever. You believe that a company can offer whatever it wishes and if the employees don't like it they can lump it and find jobs elsewhere. Are you really that dim?

      I believe you are.

      December 30, 2012 at 1:28 pm |
    • Akira

      ...A narrow exemption was added for nonprofit religious employers whose employees “primarily share its religious tenets” and who “primarily serve persons who share its religious tenets.”

      Hobby Lobby is a for profit organization.
      They sell to the public, both in a retail setting and online.
      They do not know who shares its religious tenets.
      They are subject to the same laws any other business is, regardless of their religious beliefs.
      They do not qualify, no matter how much charitable work they do; they key words here are non-profit.
      CLEARLY they don't have a leg to stand on, legally.

      December 30, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
    • RY

      @ Tom Tom You clearly try to run over anybody because you're full of hate towards others. I Imagine you've burned a lot of bridges in your lifetime and you probably had a very lonely Christmas! I pray that you will find peace in your heart!

      December 30, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You can pray for me; I'll think for you, RY. You have no idea who I am or what my life is like.

      You cannot come up with a single rebuttal for my argument and it just gripes your little ass.

      December 30, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • Akira

      Oh, I don't know, RY, I don't think that TT is full of hate for others; I think she just has a low threshold for stupidity of any sort.
      I, myself, have a low threshhold for BS.
      I can't speak for TT, but I don't suffer fools gladly.

      December 30, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • Robert

      You, my friend, have truly exposed your ignorance.

      December 30, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
  8. Fritz Hohenheim

    Oh great, now companies are not only people, they also get to have religious beliefs? Whats next? Having children?

    December 29, 2012 at 11:30 pm |
    • Janet Frisco

      Hello, companies are made up of people that have values and principles. It does not surprise me that people, like Obama, who deny people the right to birth would also deny them other human rights such as the right to conscience. I think we know from history what kind of leaders did this.

      December 30, 2012 at 5:18 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, bull. There is no "right" to birth. There is, however, law which protects the rights of those already born. The owners are breaking that law. But I guess you only think the laws you like should be followed, right?

      December 30, 2012 at 11:35 am |
    • Akira

      Oh, Janet, this is a new spin: "the right to birth?"
      While in the same breath, you deny equal rights for other citizens?
      Based on your beliefs.
      You cannot legislate your beliefs into law, and the wise POTUS knows this; nor is he going to overturn a law that is currently in place because of belief.
      Oh, I might add, none of the other presidents that have preceded Obama has, either, so your hatred for Obama must have other reasons besides your assertion that he doesn't care for the "right to birth."

      December 30, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
  9. toobad

    We plan to do even more business with Hobby Lobby. If you don't believe in something, you'll fall for everything.

    December 29, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • david defrank

      welcome mi fellow poster from da FaEast. Biz been good to you ?

      December 29, 2012 at 10:10 pm |
    • Angel Moronic

      But if you believe in only one and only one thing, you don't know if you are actually falling

      December 29, 2012 at 10:21 pm |
  10. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    I love Hobby Lobby. They have really nice stuffs with the cute little Made in China sticker. The Ch

    December 29, 2012 at 9:19 pm |
  11. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    Poor MW. It's sad that you're so threatened by anonymous posts on a blog no one even reads. Must suck to be you.

    December 29, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
    • guest

      I've read your posts for a while, and I'd imagine as you live on these posts it probably sucks to be you. However, yes "guest" not very original. Got me there you miserable old hag. But you are my comic relief on my lunch break.

      December 29, 2012 at 9:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So you are also MW. Nice. You're a liar and a bore. Good going, loser.

      December 29, 2012 at 9:02 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It cracks me up when boobs like you get on here and bit@h about others who post and then pretend you're here for jollies. If that were so, you wouldn't be so fvcking pizzed off, would you? No, you're here because you think you have a point to make and when it's laughed off as absurd and idiotic you suddenly decide you're too "noble" to care.

      Beat it, you hypocrite, and don't let the door hit you where the dog shoulda bit you.

      December 29, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
    • Argle Bargle

      Why? Because TT is by far wittier than you can ever be, you limp-dicked retard? Fvck off, you scardy-cat ass hole. Can't even say what you want to say using your regular handle. Pvssy!

      December 29, 2012 at 9:07 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I heart you, Argle!

      December 29, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • Argle Bargle

      TT, I am a HUGE fan. You crack me UP!

      December 29, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Glad to lighten the load. Can you divulge your "real" identi ty?

      December 29, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
  12. david defrank

    tom tom the maniac.settle down you are not so tuff.maybe a few hits of kush will help you in your twisted punk ass brain. im off this site because thinking abut you baby killers make me want to vomit .or tom maybe a smack over your tired ass head with a iron fryingpan mighthelp you realize thats the only star of the show not you blogging your hate .

    December 29, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, you are a sad little sack, aren't you?

      December 29, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
    • Get An Education

      You inbred New Orleans hick. When presented with logic, you cut and run. Moron.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Dedededfrankduh isn't wealthy enough to live anywhere NEAR NOLA. He's from some god-forsaken hell-hole that has no jobs and nothing to attract anyone but lame-ass losers just like him.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
    • Moron Whisperer

      Poor Tom Tom, I'm so glad that you have a gps to get you through life.

      @Get an education – Yes you do need to get one, an education.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Geez, even your insults are lame. Loser.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
    • Get An Education

      Did you shoot your load all over the screen after youe came up with that "insult", MW?

      December 29, 2012 at 9:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I think MW shoots blanks.

      December 29, 2012 at 9:14 pm |
    • Get An Education

      TT, if he's the same ass that I'm thinking of, he lives in the 9th ward and is a 2nd gen welfare recipient.

      December 29, 2012 at 9:14 pm |
  13. Moron Whisperer

    @Tom Tom
    You're tag is named after a gps, but you don't have a clue where you're going.

    December 29, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      My "tag", as you call it, you moron, is from a nursery rhyme. If you weren't an illiterate fvcktard, you'd know that.

      As it is, you are beyond hope, and need to apply for disability on the basis of brainlessness.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • Moron Whisperer

      As it says, I speak to morons; just wanted to see if you realize that you are a moron and answer me back.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
    • guest

      There is a GPS system by that name.

      Also, Tom Tom, what would you recomend be in place to protect citiczens with a matter of conscience?

      December 29, 2012 at 8:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Happy now?

      Did you figure out from what nursery rhyme my moniker originated, dumbfvck?

      December 29, 2012 at 8:38 pm |
    • Moron Whisperer

      Bet the first words you said when you were born were "right turn ahead"

      December 29, 2012 at 8:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I don't "recommend" anything that requires intelligence, doofus, because the vast majority here, including you, don't have any. If you live in an urban war zone, get a job, earn some money, and move to a better neighborhood. If you are so afraid for your safety that you need an automatic weapon, you're living in a sh!thole. Leave.

      See? Simple.

      The fact is that you don't live in any such place. If you did, you wouldn't have the time or energy to post here, moron.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey "guest", did you have trouble coming up with a name?

      Says much about you.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:47 pm |
    • Saraswati

      "Also, Tom Tom, what would you recomend be in place to protect citiczens with a matter of conscience?"

      You don't get to opt out of societal rules anywhere you want because you disagree...that would lead to chaos. Don't like war? Only those who approve pay for it. Who do you really think would be left paying? I don't think anyone should have more than 2 children. I wouldn't give tax deductions or public school benefits (about $13,000 per child) to families after the second child. Family rates for insurance...so you pay the same if you have 1 kid or 7! It's absurd. But Pay up my taxes like everyone else and would never refuse to pay legally obligated insurance for employees at the cost of millions in legal fees to taxpayers. If I have an issue I will fight for it in the appropriate legal and political forum.

      December 29, 2012 at 9:01 pm |
  14. Extra Medium

    China operates the biggest abortion clinic in the world yet Hobbly Sloppy has no problem with getting almost iall of their items there. When will they stop paying the Chinese abortion tax ? Or is it the $$$ profit just too good to mess around with ?

    December 29, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Lol, good. point.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
  15. Hobbit Lobbyist

    For the record, my current employer asks for BMI, height, weight and family history for our benefits, but there isn't anyone for me to complain too. They are one of the major corporations, unfortunately.

    December 29, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • Extra Medium

      Do they ask you how many times a week, with whom, and ask if you plan to have children ?

      December 29, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And does said employer deny you the right to have health insurance coverage for basic health care? If not, shut up and be grateful.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Do you give this information to you employer or the insurance carrier?

      December 29, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
    • End Religion

      HobLob: you're not helpless. If you don't like your employer's info requirements, find other work.

      December 30, 2012 at 5:43 am |
  16. Hobbit Lobbyist

    The government is fighting....a craft store. Think about that for a second. Big banks, lots of people out of their hosue..were the banks subject to such fines..nope. Over a million dollars a day...and its a craft store. That's insane.

    December 29, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So if someone *just* steals your wallet, it's okay? Because you only had a few bucks in it anyway, right?

      And then if someone steals my ident ity and takes thousands, that's okay, it's just a drop in the bucket compared to what Madoff did, right?

      How dumb are you?

      December 29, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • Hobbit Lobbyist

      Tom Tom everybody who's ever read this blog knows you'll say any sort of nonsense just to prove a point. You call everybody you meet "dumb" like it's elementary school. Lighten up, or if you cant atleast try to listen to reason.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • jerri uhl

      If hobby lobby has a problem providing (not paying for) employee ins then, they reap what they sow!!!For some reason these businesses think they have to pay for employees ins. The employees pay for their own ins. Employers just need to provide it to employees. Most ins plans have perscription drug plans with them . If I have ins thruogh my employer and I PAY FOR MY INS it's none of my employer business what i do to my body medically or surgically.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • Hobbit Lobbyist

      Jerry..you actually do make a good point with that, however don't you think the punishment should fit the crime? With a fine like that they might as well just shut the place down and be done with it.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      When you manage to post some "reason", you fool, alert the media. You have posted nothing of the sort thus far.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • Extra Medium

      Are you sure that Hobbly Lobby is NOT associated with any big bank at all ?

      December 29, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      There's nothing insane about requiring ANY business that operates in the US to follow the law. What part of that is so hard for you to grasp, HobbySlobbyist? Do you think a small community BANK should be able to flout the law just because it's not big?

      I suppose it would be okay with you if the US just ignored "small" drug dealers, right? What possible harm could they do?

      Are you really that stupid?

      December 29, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And what part of the fact that most of the 'big banks' repaid the government did you fail to understand? J.P. Morgan paid back every cent. Does that burst your little bubble? So sad, too bad.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
    • Argle Bargle

      The government isn't fighting Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby brought up a frivilous lawsuit. The government now has to spend tax dollars that would have been spent elswehere, perhaps on your other suggestions, if it didn't have to spend time defending a frivilous lawsuit.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:53 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Argle, That really is the worst of it. Hobby Lobby is pulling this cr@p and I'm paying for it. We can't afford to be wasting our money on this stuff.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
    • Whatever!

      Are these big banks purposely defying a law like Hobby Lobby? This Company deserves to be fined 1.3 million dollars a day and I'll be elated when they go out of business. The Hobby Lobby employees are paying for their insurance out of their paycheck and should be getting what they paid for.

      December 29, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Holly Light

      The "craft store", Hobby Lobby takes in $2.6 Billion. Their 13,000 U.S. non-denominational employees remain free to follow their religious beliefs: Regarless of health insurance, all can choose to use contraceptives....or not. Health and Human Services, not the president, determined that contraception is an important preventative medicine.

      Meantime, craft store is piled high with merchandise, produced by slave children who have no rights in The Peoples Republic of CHINA.

      Time to grow up and accept that OBAMACARE is our law. The voters have spoken.

      December 31, 2012 at 9:10 am |
    • hennahands

      See the problem is that Hobby Lobby had no problems buying products from an atheist country like China, or turing around and selling the goods to an atheist consumer (like me). Now they have a issue with covering medicine that is considered basic by most insurance companies and required by the law. I will not be purchasing anything from them any longer. I thought that what happened to Susan B. Koman would have been a lesson for most corporation, but I see now that these types of people are not quick learners.

      December 31, 2012 at 11:41 am |
  17. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    My prayers are with you David deFrank: I love you.

    December 29, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
  18. david defrank

    aikra ok one more time.first off the editor of this blog danny boy lied to you.hobby loby did never ever ever equate morning after with abortion.so you think we lost ha.i dont. it will end up in the supreme court.your pres. sits on a seat in the white house with clintons body fluid all over it.you guys are all perverted to think abortfacients dont kill developing babies'this is about abortion not the morning after.whats your point to frustrate us.no you dont smarty pants.i see mr.hate is on line now.hi tommy i read your lies.your a sick man who needs holywater lots of it maybe about a ocean and then a couple dozen priests.

    December 29, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The men in the white coats are on their way, sicko, Hold on tight.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • jerri uhl

      Everyone that has employer PROVIDEwith their own money paycheck. Should be able to get any medical procedure they need or want!!!This is what is so annoying to read over and over again. Provide means provide= make available NOT PAY!!!!All employees will pay for their ins. NOT EMPLOYERS.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • Akira

      David defrank:
      From another artical on this blog:
      Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor on Wednesday turned down a request that she block part of Obamacare that would require companies’ health plans to provide for coverage of certain contraceptives, such as the morning-after pill.

      Courtesy of TTtPS:

      One type of emergency contraception (Plan B One-Step, Next Choice, Levonorgestrel Tablets) is made of one of the hormones made by a woman’s body — progestin. Another type (ella) blocks the body’s own progestin.

      Both types of emergency contraception work by keeping a woman’s ovaries from releasing eggs — ovulation. Pregnancy cannot happen if there is no egg to join with sperm.

      You might have also heard that the morning-after pill causes an abortion. But that’s not true. The morning-after pill is not the abortion pill. Emergency contraception is birth control, not abortion.

      Morning-after pills can help prevent pregnancy if you’ve had unprotected s3x — whether you didn’t use birth control, you missed a birth control pill or your method of birth control failed.

      Morning-after pills can prevent pregnancy because conception typically doesn’t occur immediately after s3x. Instead, it may happen up to several days later. During the time between s3x and conception, sperm travel through the fallopian tubes until they potentially reach an egg. As a result, using emergency contraception soon after unprotected s3x isn’t too late to prevent pregnancy.

      Morning-after pills do not end a pregnancy that has implanted. Depending on where you are in your menstrual cycle, morning-after pills may act by one or more of the following actions: delaying or preventing ovulation, blocking fertilization, or keeping a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. However, recent evidence strongly suggests that Plan B One-Step and Next Choice do not inhibit implantation. It’s not clear if the same is true for Ella.

      Keep in mind that the morning-after pill isn’t the same as mifepristone (Mifeprex), also known as RU-486 or the abortion pill. Mifeprex terminates an established pregnancy — one in which the fertilized egg has attached to the uterine wall and has already begun to develop.

      One more time, Hobby Lobby filed this.
      I suggest you turn off Fox and Rush and actually do a bit of research.
      Hobby Lobby is not, and never will be, a non-profit religious organization.
      They have no legal leg to stand on, and it will be ruled against.
      Please refrain from calling me names.
      I haven't called you any, yet, but my patience is wearing thin.

      December 29, 2012 at 8:08 pm |
    • Argle Bargle

      david defrank, what is your position on priest wearing condoms when they're ra.ping children? Pro or con?

      December 29, 2012 at 8:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I would love to see a picture of a 'priest-wearing condom."

      December 29, 2012 at 8:44 pm |
    • Holly Light

      D.D. – Are you insane or just intellectually limited. Take wild rants to a New Year's eve party along with your dunce cap.

      December 31, 2012 at 9:18 am |
  19. jerri uhl

    Why aren't they complaining about erectile producing drugs? That's were it all begins anyway;-)

    December 29, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • Personal accountability

      Those are also drugs who should be purchased by the consumer.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • Personal accountability

      I meant drugs THAT should be purchased by the consumer. None of these posts are comming out correctly.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Personal dumb azz, will you show some personal responsibility and get an education? It's obvious that you don't have one and that you are completely clueless on this issue.

      Read something, you idiot.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
  20. Personal accountability

    The responsibilty of the cost of birth control is in the hands of the user of said contraception. It is not the tax payers responsibility. It is not the employers responsibility. I had to purchase my own supplies many a time, it never occured to me to pass my cost alone to anyone else. Now there are huge battles ensuing because people didn't want to be responsible for themselves.

    December 29, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • jerri uhl

      That's the problem. Everyone thinks employers pay for anything. ACA just says provide insurance to your employees NOT PAY FOR IT!!! YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR INS!!!! EMPLOYER JUST NEEDS TO HAVE IT AVAILABLE TO YOU. AND YES MOST INS PLANS HAVE PERSCRIPTION DRUG PLANS IN THEM. GET INFORMED. IT'S A NON- ISSUE.

      December 29, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Taxpayers ARE NOT paying for any of these medications, you moron. How can you be so stupid?

      December 29, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • Saraswati

      The issue is that for anyone with a pre-existing condition in their family employer based insurance is the only option right now to cover the family. If you can exclude one thing, no matter how small, you can exclude anything....cancer treatments tested on animals, blood transfusions...whatever the employer doesn't like.

      December 30, 2012 at 11:45 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.