My Take: Jesus was a dirty, dirty God
January 5th, 2013
10:00 PM ET

My Take: Jesus was a dirty, dirty God

Editor’s note: Johnnie Moore is the author of Dirty God (#DirtyGod). He is a professor of religion and vice president at Liberty University. Keep track of him @johnnieM .

By Johnnie Moore, Special to CNN

(CNN) - Jesus was a lot more like you than you think, and a lot less clean cut than this iconic image of him that floats around culture.

You know the image. It’s the one where Jesus is walking like he’s floating in robes of pristine white followed by birds singing some holy little ditty. He’s polished, manicured, and clearly – God.

But despite the Christian belief that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, Jesus was a rather dirty God.

He was the “earthly” son of a carpenter, and life in the first-century was both more lurid and unfinished than our collective religious memory seems to recall.

To that end, I suggested recently to several astounded colleagues of mine that Jesus actually had to go to the bathroom, perhaps even on the side of the road between Capernaum and Jerusalem.

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What tipped them over the edge was when I insinuated that Jesus, like almost every other human being living in the rural world in that time, might have even had dysentery on an occasion or two.

Someone said, “You mean that Jesus might have had severe diarrhea?”

“Yep,” I replied, “That’s exactly what I mean.”

It seems like an obvious statement if you believe that Jesus was “fully God” and “fully man” (as most evangelicals believe and call the Incarnation), but to some of us it seems in the least, inappropriate, and at the most, sacrilege, to imagine Jesus in this way. We might believe that God was also man, but we picture him with an ever-present halo over his head.

But, actually, the Jesus of the Bible was more human than most people are conditioned to think.

I call this the dirty side of Jesus. He was grittier, and a lot more like us than maybe we believe, and that’s one of the reasons why so many thousands of people followed him so quickly.

They could relate to him.

He was the teacher from a small town who knew and understood the economic insecurity that was common in the first century. Times must have been rather tough for Jesus at points in his life, for he even spoke of being homeless, having to sleep on the ground with no roof over his head.

He also knew what it was like to have his message rejected and how it felt to be misunderstood. Jesus was regarded with such little significance in his hometown that one of his critics once remarked sardonically, “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son?” Jesus eventually had to move to different city (Capernaum) because his teachings so infuriated the people living in his hometown that they drove him out of Nazareth and even tried to throw him off a cliff.

'Jesus Wife' fragment gets more testing, delays article

The real Jesus had dirt underneath his fingernails and calluses on his hands. He probably smelled badly from sweating profusely in the Judean sun on his long hikes to Jerusalem, and Jesus was, without a doubt, rumored to be a hypocrite or absolutely mad for all the time he spent with prostitutes and those afflicted with leprosy.

Not exactly have a clean-cut image.

He had a rather shady reputation.

Some people thought he was a revolutionary. The religious leaders called him a heretic, and others even accused him of being a drunkard and a glutton - in no small part because of the vagabond group of disciples he had with him. No serious religious leader of his day would have ever recruited such people.

For his core 12 disciples, Jesus included a tough-as-nails, bombastic fisherman (Peter), a chief tax collector named Matthew (the most hated popular figure of the time), an eventual traitor who was stealing money out of the offering bucket (Judas), a prolific doubter (Thomas), two jocks nicknamed the “Sons of Thunder” (James and John) and Simon the Zealot, a member of a radical political party which believed in using violence to kick out the Romans.

Jesus was sarcastic, too.

He often snapped back at the Pharisees with a tone fit for late-night television, and in a terribly embarrassing moment for all those around him, Jesus even called these respected religious teachers “snakes” that were probably sons of “Satan.”

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That’s not exactly the behavior of a sweet, self-help teacher with a halo over his head.

It’s the behavior of a frustrated man who might also be divine, but sure knows how it feels for annoying people to get under his skin.

Christians believe that Jesus chose to be born fully human, too, but why?

Lots of theologians have laid out opinions over the centuries, and in their opining they have tried once again to hijack Jesus’ humanity by defining it in philosophical terms. I believe it’s simpler than the philosophy and church councils and centuries of argument.

The brilliance of Christianity is the image of a God, named Jesus, arrived with dirty hands.

Jesus came in a time period when Greco-Roman gods were housed in gigantic temples and portrayed with superhuman powers and with superhuman physiques. Gods were believed to be far away from people on their mountains or hemmed up in their sanctuaries.

Jesus arrived in defiance of this prevailing imagery.

Jesus didn’t come flinging lightning bolts from a mountaintop, or playing politics in Rome. He came to live in a typical Middle Eastern village called Nazareth that was home to a couple hundred typical people. He didn’t decide to brandish his power, but to spend most of his time with the powerless and disenfranchised. And when he started a religious movement that reshaped history, he did it in the most profound and anticlimatic way:

He let himself be killed, and then he busted open a tomb.

In Jesus we meet a Savior who understood the desire to sleep just a few more hours, and who had to control his temper sometimes. In Jesus we find a God we can relate to because he chose to relate to us.

He was the God who became dirty so that the world’s souls might be made clean.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Johnnie Moore.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Jesus

soundoff (7,741 Responses)
  1. Abiodun Power

    Poorly written. Jesus is the light of the world!

    February 9, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • sam stone

      To some people, he is

      February 11, 2013 at 5:55 am |
  2. True Dichotomy

    God is real.

    February 9, 2013 at 9:17 am |
    • Free Nuts

      For creationists Eve is Adam Adam poked himself

      February 9, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • cleareye1

      ...and so is Superman!

      February 9, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • CrossCountry

      if so...then he likely doesn't need your affirmation.

      February 9, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Hello

      nope.. no gods... never have been...never will be.

      February 10, 2013 at 11:02 am |
  3. Science

    Published on Jan 13, 2013

    Program Description
    Over 60,000 years ago, the first modern humans—people physically identical to us today—left their African homeland and entered Europe, then a bleak and inhospitable continent in the grip of the Ice Age. But when they arrived, they were not alone: the stocky, powerfully built Neanderthals had already been living there for hundred of thousands of years. So what happened when the first modern humans encountered the Neanderthals? Did we make love or war? That question has tantalized generations of scholars and seized the popular imagination. Then, in 2010, a team led by geneticist Svante Paabo announced stunning news. Not only had they reconstructed much of the Neanderthal genome—an extraordinary technical feat that would have seemed impossible only a decade ago—but their analysis showed that "we" modern humans had interbred with Neanderthals, leaving a small but consistent signature of Neanderthal genes behind in everyone outside Africa today. In "Decoding Neanderthals," NOVA explores the implications of this exciting discovery. In the traditional view, Neanderthals differed from "us" in behavior and capabilities as well as anatomy. But were they really mentally inferior, as inexpressive and clumsy as the cartoon caveman they inspired? NOVA explores a range of intriguing new evidence for Neanderthal self-expression and language, all pointing to the fact that we may have seriously underestimated our mysterious, long-vanished human cousins.

    Science & Technology


    February 9, 2013 at 6:15 am |
    • Science

      Above post for ALL THE CREATIONISTS .


      February 9, 2013 at 6:32 am |
  4. Hank Roedell

    It's a shame that we regard Jesus as dirty, and urinating at the side of the road. All those people were dirty at that time. They didn't have electricity and hot water and bathrooms. The main thing to understand about Jesus, is He is a way back to God in heaven. I feel sorry for those folks who can't accept that. Hank

    February 8, 2013 at 10:33 pm |
    • End Religion

      You talk to imaginary creatures. Maybe you should feel sorry for yourself?

      February 8, 2013 at 10:37 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      I feel sorry that you are so brainwashed.

      February 8, 2013 at 11:04 pm |
    • jarhead333

      Such creative retorts by the "science" community tonight. You can do better than that.

      February 8, 2013 at 11:09 pm |
    • Science

      Earth’s timeline works better than the bible's timeline

      Trace our planet's geological and biological ages


      February 9, 2013 at 5:50 am |
    • wncmtnman

      Modern Christianity says that Jesus is the only True Son of God, I Totally Disagree with this Concept, thru out History long before Christ was Born in different cultures there have been "Crusified Saviors" and alot of them had the same history as Christ, Born of holy Conception, confronted the "Devil", "Born December 25th suppossely, and Crucified.
      If I am not mistaken Christ said we are all the Sons and Daughters of God, were are eternal Spiritual beings , Christ "said, ye are Gods you just donot know it."
      Gnostic Christianity which predates Modern Christianity taught the Divine is within each of us, I donot need a church or a pastor to have a Relationship with the Creator, I just need Teachers to Guide me Back to Tne Divine within.

      February 9, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • cleareye1

      You can free yourself of these ancient fantasies. Simply accept reality as it is and hope for the best. Life is a constant wonder, no need to fake any of it.

      February 9, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Pockets

      Jesus was illiterate, a peasant and possibly a carpenter,probably suffered from hallucinations. The quotes attributed to him were done by those looking to solidify a religion. This 'bible' has to be taken with a grain of salt. Sad to think that in 2013, people still need a crutch to lean on,only through education can a break through be realized.

      February 9, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • sam stone

      Good for you, Hank. I feel sorry for those who believe they need it

      February 11, 2013 at 5:58 am |
  5. derp

    Did jesus fart?

    February 8, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • Vegas

      Jesus should have farted in YOUR Face! If he wanted to hear such a comment from an @sshole...

      February 8, 2013 at 5:54 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      most definitely. dates, figs, wine and unpasteurized milk – are you kidding

      February 8, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
    • Pockets

      Being "human" he had the same problems with health that we all do,including bad breath,he was a drinker accused at times of being a glutton,and drunk. This fabled character from the region of peasants is totally a figure that has been greatly over done. The more that the bible is scrutinized the more it will be proven to be false.

      February 9, 2013 at 4:04 pm |

    It's very interesting to see how all to the other atheists in this blog are silent and won't even attempt to challenge the questions I posted. Because the truth cannot be challenged. That's why the only intelligent response that I got was from Check, who's answer was: "We do not know the whole process yet. That does not mean that by default a Magic Sorcerer must have done it, and especially the one with 6-pointed stars and lower-case letter 't's on his hat." What an embarrassment to atheism. Speechless!

    February 8, 2013 at 3:42 pm |

      And Just Live's intelligent answer to my questions was: "The Bible was created as the world's greatest prank!"

      Is that your final answer?

      February 8, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • OTOH


      You have not provided a shred of verified evidence that you have any truth, Truth, or TRUTH whatsoever.

      February 8, 2013 at 3:48 pm |


      The Bible is evidence enough! Again! Based on observation, as scientists likes to say, are you not created in the likeness of your human parents? Or, are you a fish, rat, bat, dog, reptile, horse, or let me guess, a monkey? What are you? If you want the answer, I suggest you read the Bible to get the answer.

      February 8, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @all caps troll

      Actually, it's because your questions are illogical bullshit that requires your conclusion to be true for it to be valid. This is called Begging the question. You misrepresent, cherry pick, and ignore certain aspects of what you're talking about. There is nothing of substance in your posts to respond to. They are empty self-serving platitudes worth nothing to those who actually care about knowledge, truth, and accuracy.

      February 8, 2013 at 4:12 pm |


      So that is your final answer?

      It's funny, how if you look at the pattern of some of the atheists on this blog and in general, when they get stuck and are unable to answer an intelligent question, that exposes the flaw in their theories, they start to call you names and try to bully you and hurt your feelings in hopes that they can get you to break! I'm not that sucker Hawaii! You just exposed yourself showing that you cannot support your belief. But that's okay. You have some who call themselves Christians who are not adequately representing their view points as well.

      1 Peter 4:4
      4 Because YOU do not continue running with them in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of YOU.

      1 Corinthians 2:14-16
      14 But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually. 15 However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. 16 For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Chris

      February 8, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @all caps troll

      That is my final answer. You've shown exactly why people don't answer you. You don't address anything anyway. Merely misrepresent. And now you want to toss out irrelevant verses from your immoral book of death, and expect it to carry some kind of weight.

      February 8, 2013 at 6:02 pm |


      It's okay to admit that you know nothing about science, or, you just don't know the answer to the questions. That's what some of your colleagues were humble enough to admit. It doesn't mean your dumb, just maybe you didn't get the chance to research it for yourself.

      February 8, 2013 at 8:00 pm |
    • CrossCountry


      you assume that the bible is the basis of absolute truth. That is why you quote the bible and only the bible and can't debate in an intelligent way. What fuels this assumption?

      Just my two cents.

      February 8, 2013 at 10:17 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      TWSYF, prove that your god exists, that The Babble is the true word of your god and that jesus was actually resurrected and we'll have a serious conversation. Until then, you have no credibility and we have nothing to talk about.

      February 8, 2013 at 10:27 pm |
    • Hello

      the christian myth was created by the Roman Flavian family as a political tool to control the Jews and others they concord.
      They created this slave based pacifistic myth to save Rome no souls.
      Read Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill for the details.

      February 10, 2013 at 11:07 am |
  7. derp

    Why did the intelligent designer give men nipp les?

    February 8, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • CrossCountry


      February 8, 2013 at 10:14 pm |
    • CrossCountry

      I feel like this is a valid query.

      valid indeed.

      February 8, 2013 at 10:49 pm |
    • Hello

      The same reason he gave them to male dogs, cats, hogs, mice, etc... I guess..
      But since nip()ples were not given be evolved.. the answer is about genetics and mythics.

      February 10, 2013 at 11:10 am |
  8. derp

    This article is bogus.

    Doesn't the author know that Jesus was perfectly groomed white guy who farted pixie dust.

    I am curious which hand Jesus jerked off with.

    Right or left?

    February 8, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
  9. RF

    What an ignorant piece. Does the author really believe that Christians think Jesus was a sterile individual? He lived among the people, bathed among the people, ate among the people. This is just an ignorant transparent poorly thought attempt at journalism. i am not a practicing Christian but i can see this for what it is. Crap!

    February 8, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
  10. True Dichotomy

    My flesh rests in hope (Old Testament), and my hope is in Christ (New Testament). God created the universe, and He sent His Son to be our High Priest. He is the author and the finisher of our faith, and will one day judge everyone righteously. For those who are in Christ will inherit eternal life with Him. For those who deny knowing the Lord, He will deny knowing you on your appointed day of judgement. For the Lord is long in suffering not wanting any to perish, but for all to come to the saving knowledge of Christ. Christ did not come into the world to condemn the world, but to save it.

    February 8, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Veiled threats with no evidence and the "believe or else" crap may have worked before, but that kind of immoral idiocy has been exposed.

      February 8, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • True Dichotomy

      And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

      Of sin, because they believe not on me;

      Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

      Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

      John 16, 8:11

      February 8, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      So your response is more threats and believe or else bullshit. Welcome to the status of "useless religious dumbass.

      February 8, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      The early Xtian apologists gave it away when they said that the copy-cat gospels were not plagiarism but a pre-emptive strike by Satan – stories planned in advance to fool.

      February 8, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • moe

      bla blah....

      February 11, 2013 at 6:52 am |


    Where did the information, program, laws and rules found in DNA come from?

    February 8, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • Just Live

      The Bible was created as the world's greatest prank!

      February 8, 2013 at 9:32 am |


      If the creation of complex molecules in the laboratory requires the skill of a scientist, could the far more complex molecules in a cell really arise by chance?

      February 8, 2013 at 9:45 am |


      RNA is required to make proteins, yet proteins are involved in the making of RNA. How could either one arise by chance, let alone both?

      February 8, 2013 at 9:50 am |

      Just live,

      Was that your best answer? Are there any atheist smart enough to give a valid answer?

      February 8, 2013 at 9:53 am |
    • Check


      Listen. You have been told this before, but apparently it has not sunk in:

      We do not know the whole process yet. That does not mean that by default a Magic Sorcerer must have done it, and especially the one with 6-pointed stars and lower-case letter 't's on his hat.

      February 8, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • True Dichotomy

      They came from the Lord.

      February 8, 2013 at 1:08 pm |


      You said: "We do not know the whole process yet."

      What a lame answer! You know that you and none of the atheists on this blog can give a logical explanation to these questions. Atheists always claim that it's a fact that we got here by means of evolution, blind chance, but "we don't know the whole process yet." How can you claim something to be fact when you can't even explain it. Instead of atheists using the term "it's a fact," they should use, "it's blind faith."

      February 8, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • I wonder

      "RNA is required to make proteins, yet proteins are involved in the making of RNA. How could either one arise by chance, let alone both?"

      Precisely how did your god do it then?

      February 8, 2013 at 2:20 pm |


      First answer the question! Is it possible for either of them to come about by mere chance, without intelligent design? And if so, please give your explanation.

      February 8, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • I wonder

      We don't know what we don't know.

      Unlike you (and other theists, both ancient and current), I do not make up stuff to fill in the blanks.

      February 8, 2013 at 3:10 pm |


      So you can honestly say, the evolution theory to our existence is not a fact?

      February 8, 2013 at 3:28 pm |


      You stated that "you" do not just make up stuff to fill in the blanks. So what do you call the "theories" that atheists use to fill in the blanks? Not a whole bunch of made up stuff?

      February 8, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • I wonder


      I don't think that you know the meaning of "theory" in scientific terms:

      "When used in non-scientific context, the word “theory” implies that something is unproven or speculative. As used in science, however, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena.

      Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. In the scientific method, there is a clear distinction between facts, which can be observed and/or measured, and theories, which are scientists’ explanations and interpretations of the facts. Scientists can have various interpretations of the outcomes of experiments and observations, but the facts, which are the cornerstone of the scientific method, do not change.

      A theory must include statements that have observational consequences. A good theory, like Newton’s theory of gravity, has unity, which means it consists of a limited number of problem-solving strategies that can be applied to a wide range of scientific circ'umstances. Another feature of a good theory is that it formed from a number of hypotheses that can be tested independently." –http://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-definition-of-theory.html

      You are barely at the hypothesis stage with your thinking. There is nothing testable nor verifiable in it.

      February 8, 2013 at 3:42 pm |


      I agree with what you said about theory. You stated: "As used in science, however, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena."

      If what you stated is true, how can one claim that the Bible is not factual based on observation, when it comes to humans, animals, plants, trees, etc, being produced according to their likeness?

      Genesis 1:24-28
      24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so. 25 And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.

      26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.” 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”

      February 8, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • I wonder



      Talk about a lame answer! Quotes from a book written by old, ethnocentric Hebrew men from the Middle East...?!

      February 9, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
  12. Bob

    A couple moves into a new neighborhood. The next morning while they are eating breakfast, the young woman sees her neighbor hanging the wash outside. That Laundry is not very clean, she doesn’t know how to wash correctly exclaimed the young woman. Perhaps she needs better laundry soap. Her husband looks on, but remains silent. Every time the neighbor hangs her wash to dry, the young woman makes the same comments. A month later the young woman is surprised to see a nice clean wash out on the line and says to her husband, Look she has finally learned how to wash correctly. I wonder who taught her this? The Husbands’ reply was short and to the point, I got up early this morning and cleaned our windows. And so it is with life, what we see when watching others depends on the clarity of the window through which we look

    February 8, 2013 at 9:20 am |
  13. BOTA KAY

    I love Jesus, I judge the world with heart not brain. Brain does not give a life, but hear does that so I can think.

    February 7, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
    • Check

      So, people with brain damage from diseases or accidents really have heart problems?

      Did you know that injuries to certain parts of the brain cause the heart to stop beating?

      February 8, 2013 at 3:43 am |
  14. True Dichotomy

    By no means does any inductive evidence supporting biological evolution refute or disprove Creation. None whatsoever.

    February 7, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      So what? It is not the purpose of evolution to refute or support any mythology. Evolution has been shown to be valid using the scientific method – The Babble has not, except according to delusional circular thinking believers.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • Science

      Dover Trial creation lost in US.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • True Dichotomy

      That is the most irrelevant comment ever!!

      February 7, 2013 at 8:47 pm |
    • Science

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy religion created to fight evolution go figure

      February 8, 2013 at 4:49 am |
    • Science


      Creationist LOST at the Dover Trial FOREVER !!!
      Can not teach CREATION at all in public schools as FACT.
      Take it up with the courts BLA BLA BLA !


      New STEM science standards for 2013 make ears for transplant from stem cells

      Can't you read EVOLUTION IN A TEST TUBE Jan. 30 2013

      News Release

      3-D structure of the evolved enzyme (an RNA ligase), using 10 overlaid snapshots. In the top region, the overlays show the range of bending and folding flexibility in the amino acid chain that forms the molecule. The two gray balls are zinc ions. (University of Minnesota)

      University of Minnesota researchers unveil first artificial enzyme created by evolution in a test tube

      Thanks Doc.

      February 8, 2013 at 4:52 am |
    • lol??

      HaAce sayz, "........... Evolution has been shown to be valid.........."

      Dude, after centuries and centuries one would think it would be settled. But alas, it's just an ethereal pipe dream going back to the beginning.

      February 8, 2013 at 5:18 am |
    • Science

      Does not need or want a wedgie ok

      February 8, 2013 at 6:55 am |


      That's why American students are lagging behind other nations in education, especially 3rd world nations.


      February 8, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • HotAirAce

      lol??, while I agree that what is known about evolution is evolving, there is way more evidence for it than for any god or the jesus myth, despite religion being around much longer. Using your (il)logic, religion,gods and the jesus myth must be more in question than evolution.

      February 8, 2013 at 6:06 pm |

      HotAir; Science; Religion; Knot; Sam Stone; Saraswati;

      Where did the information, program, laws and rules found in DNA come from?

      RNA is required to make proteins, yet proteins are involved in the making of RNA. How could either one arise by chance, let alone both?

      RNA is required to make proteins, yet proteins are involved in the making of RNA. How could either one arise by chance, let alone both?

      February 8, 2013 at 8:12 pm |

      HotAir; Science; Religion; Knot; Sam Stone; Saraswati;

      The third question from the above post should have been?

      RNA is required to make proteins, yet proteins are involved in the making of RNA. How could either one arise by chance, let alone both?

      February 8, 2013 at 8:18 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      You apparently see a seemingly circular situation that you do not understand, similar to the circular logic that believers use when they say "The Babble is the word of some god because it says it is the word of some god." What you don't grasp is that there are multiple different proteins such that one or more proteins can be involved in the production of RNA that leads to the production of other proteins, repeat multiple times. . .

      I find that if you rely on science books and knowledge to understand science, rather than The Babble and religious charlatans, you have a much better chance of actually learning something, as opposed to remaining at the same intelligence level of first century goat herders.

      February 8, 2013 at 10:40 pm |


      You seem to not understand that no matter what type of "protein" it is, you need RNA, and you need proteins for the production of RNA. Go back and do your research then try again.

      February 9, 2013 at 5:46 am |
  15. True Dichotomy

    Popularity does not equate with truth, but there is significance to the numerical statistics at that level. For example, compare the number of believers to non-believers.

    February 7, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • True Dichotomy

      Also, bear in mind that the people in the other religious groups that represent several more billion have a belief in God and Spirituality even if they are not Christian. Now ask yourself, what are you doing as an atheist or agnostic that is different than several billion other people that are at least subscribed to existence of Spirit?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Thinking rationally, making decisions based on independent, verifiable, objective data and not jumping to "some god did it" whenever we don't understand something.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • Science

      Science Facts

      Check your god(S) at the cave enterance before entering.. No god(s) required for studying humans on this thread

      updated 1 hour 55 minutes ago
      Jan. 29 2013

      Scientists have unearthed and dated some of the oldest stone hand axes on Earth. The ancient tools, unearthed in Ethiopia in the last two decades, date to 1.75 million years ago.


      Ancient DNA reveals humans living 40,000 years ago in Beijing area related to present-day Asians, Native Americans January 21, 2013

      Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-01-ancient-dna-reveals-humans-years.html#jCp

      February 7, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
  16. True Dichotomy

    @Science: biological evolution has already been thrown onto the trash heap in terms of having any relevance for modern debates on religion and science. It's not fundamental enough.

    The 2.3 billion Christians far outnumber the atheists and agnostics. What is it that they know, that you seem to be ignoring.

    February 7, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Saraswati

      Most people choose incorectly when faced with the Monty Hall problem. It doesn't make them right.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • End Religion

      Someone's gone cuckoo... evolution is stronger than ever. Many lines of empirical evidence and lots of time on its side during which many have tried to falsify it. Religion has zero EE with many years during which it has been repeatedly falsified.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • True Dichotomy

      The generic concept of evolution is fine, the point is that biological evolution and the biology sciences are not really needed or useful for these type of discussions. I'm not really disputing Darwin, I'm just saying the idea of biological evolution is not fundamental enough. With that being said, I'm not a huge fan of his theory as it is not really a quality scientific theory, but rather a paradigm or way of thinking that has generated many poo infested discussions on the topic.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:30 am |
  17. Bob

    I am constantly surprised that the atheists think that they are making headway by bashing and not offering a alternative that is help to anyone. If I were trying to sway someone I would offer something better, business does it, ads are all about something better they may bash but they offer something better. I have been where they are with all the knowledge and know how and I found myself in a bad situation that knowledge and money did not help. What I found that helped was the Lord, the situations that I have encountered or life in general sometimes gets pretty unsure. When you have the Lord you have someone to run to that cares and loves you. Its also not a one time situation you can keep going to Him and the more you do the more you learn who He is and how good He really is. You begin to have trust in what He says and what you hear and act upon it and since life is a series of choices life starts to change for the better.

    February 7, 2013 at 9:59 am |
    • Saraswati

      That might make a good argument, except that the ranks of the non-believers are increasing, so something must be working.

      Let's go with the business analogy. Let's say you are a farmer and want to buy a book to help take care of your new equiptment and deal with climate change. The only books available at your local show are on feeding your oxen and and some old horoscope books predicting the weather over the next 400 years (let's call those the Christianity equivalent). So you can buy some useless and/or outdated books or save your time and money and not buy any books at all until something else is offered? Most people will save their money and not dish out for the useless outdated junk.

      Leaving the analogy there, atheism in itself isn't ever going to "offer" anything because it's just a lack of belief (or active disbelief) in gods. That doesn't mean an atheist can't have plenty of other beliefs. Atheist can have all manner of ethical beliefs and even, as many atheist buddhists do, mystical religious beliefs. Atheism isn't what's out there on offer – things like secular humanism, utilitarianism, rights based morality, Unitarianism, Buddhism and new age philosophies are all up for grabs for the atheist. Some make sense and some may be silly, but they all act without gods, and those are the various metapysical and ethical alternatives...not atheism in itself.

      February 7, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • End Religion

      Bob, curiously I believe the search for truth is about truth and not about whatever fantasy makes one feel good.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • Bob

      End You find truth at the end of self, you have not released self nor restrictive ideas or emotions so you are not open for truth. In fact you are in bondage or a slave and as such will not see truth.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:29 pm |


      You stated: "Bob, curiously I believe the search for truth is about truth and not about whatever fantasy makes one feel good."

      Should your word not apply to yourself as well, who have produced no proof or facts but just theories? Scientist used to think the earth was flat, guess what? They were wrong! They used to think the sun orbits the earth, guess what? They were wrong! For over a hundred years from the times of Darwin, some are still holding on to empty theories. Guess who had it right from the start? God' word the Bible!

      Proverbs 19:3
      3 It is the foolishness of an earthling man that distorts his way, and so his heart becomes enraged against Jehovah himself.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot


      How difficult would if have been for "God" to get astronomy correct in 'his' 'word'... even for simple folks of the day back then? Instead of the coo-coo info that Earth sits on pillars and has a dome above it, maybe something like: "The Earth is a tiny round pebble in space and it orbits a giant sun/star, which provides it with energy and light."

      February 7, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • sam stone

      I am constantly amazed that theists feel that threatening non believers with retaliation from beings in which the objects of the threat d not believe. I suspect it makes the theists feel all godly

      February 7, 2013 at 2:24 pm |


      I notice you're quoting Job 9:6 "He is making the earth go quaking from its place,
      So that its very pillars shudder."

      Where God also name a few, out of the billions of different constellations, in educating Job on his creative works.

      Job 9:8,9
      8 Stretching out the heavens by himself
      And treading upon the high waves of the sea;
      9 Making the Ash constellation, the Ke′sil constellation,
      And the Ki′mah constellation and the interior rooms of the South;

      Job 38:31,32
      31 Can you tie fast the bonds of the Ki′mah constellation,
      Or can you loosen the very cords of the Ke′sil constellation?
      32 Can you bring forth the Maz′za·roth constellation in its appointed time?
      And as for the Ash constellation alongside its sons, can you conduct them?

      What I find to be very interesting is the fact that in verse 30, Jehovah told him about the oceanic "plates", that makes up the "compacted stones" of the ocean's floor.

      Job 38:30
      30 The very waters keep themselves hidden as by stone,
      And the surface of the watery deep makes itself compact.

      Again without the technology that we are so dependent on today, they already knew about the hevenly bodies and the function of the earth, that's because Jehovah God told them, and he had his servant pen them for us to learn from it. But unfortunately, you have so called scientist who are seeking their own glory, trying to discredit the Bible so that they can claim they discovered it first.

      And by the way, FYI, the book of Job was the second Bible book written after Genesis.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot


      Here is a drawing of what those primitive Middle Eastern Hebrew men thought the Earth and the universe looked like:


      February 7, 2013 at 3:18 pm |


      Also, the men in Bible times surpass us when it comes to intelligence, while we depend on calculators to compute numbers and technology, they used their God given Brain. So don't use the term "simple" for those who built Pyramids, and other edifices based on their knowledge of the celestial bodies with pin point accuracy that God thought them through their forefathers. Though many of them rebelled against God and sought to become god's themselves, they used what they learned for their own selfish pursuit, just like many atheists are doing today.

      Genesis 10:8-12
      8 And Cush became father to Nim′rod. He made the start in becoming a mighty one in the earth. 9 He displayed himself a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah. That is why there is a saying: “Just like Nim′rod a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah.” 10 And the beginning of his kingdom came to be Ba′bel and E′rech and Ac′cad and Cal′neh, in the land of Shi′nar. 11 Out of that land he went forth into As·syr′i·a and set himself to building Nin′e·veh and Re·ho′both-Ir and Ca′lah 12 and Re′sen between Nin′e·veh and Ca′lah: this is the great city.

      Genesis 11:1-4
      1 Now all the earth continued to be of one language and of one set of words. 2 And it came about that in their journeying eastward they eventually discovered a valley plain in the land of Shi′nar, and they took up dwelling there. 3 And they began to say, each one to the other: “Come on! Let us make bricks and bake them with a burning process.” So brick served as stone for them, but bitumen served as mortar for them. 4 They now said: “Come on! Let us build ourselves a city and also a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a celebrated name for ourselves, for fear we may be scattered over all the surface of the earth.”

      February 7, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      TWSYF. More intelligent? Not likely. Human knowledge is cumulative so we are at least as intelligent and much more knowledgeable.

      February 7, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      "their [primitive men] knowledge of the celestial bodies with pin point accuracy..."

      Of course they had some knowledge of the patterns of the stars/planets. They had a LOT of time to stargaze on those clear desert nights. They had the knowledge from simple observation and record keeping. They were also fraught with superst'itions about what they didn't understand.

      Pin point accuracy: How about the fact that Orion's "Belt" is only a few stars which are not really in a line when observed from other vantage points in space? They only knew what they saw from here...

      February 7, 2013 at 3:54 pm |


      I concur with the intelligence comment.

      February 7, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • Bob

      If you really want to see the detail that God goes into look at the building of the Temple its really fascinating. Not just the construction but the materials used the dimensions what they add up to so many details that man could not have thought of. IN the Temple on one side it has 5 pillars on one side 4 to remind us of the rib God took from man for Eve. The materials used are selected for a precise purpose as also the colors. Nothing is left without significance and just like the Bible it does not reveal its secrets till you spend some time to look into it.

      February 7, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
  18. Represenitative

    "You know the image. It’s the one where Jesus is walking like he’s floating in robes of pristine white followed by birds singing some holy little ditty. He’s polished, manicured, and clearly – God." So much for being a "He is a professor of religion", Jesus was NOT a God or God himself, rather the SON of God. I AM or as it is translated from the Hebrew language, YHWH; is God get your facts correct. After all your supposedly a studier of religion or just another media demon spreading false inormation.

    February 7, 2013 at 9:27 am |
    • End Religion

      Your god didn't exist, neither did its supposed son. BTW, no demons either. Now you can get back to reality. You can thank me later.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:12 am |
  19. Ralph

    News not reporting it, finally O's birth certificate authenticity to be considered by the Supreme C

    February 7, 2013 at 7:43 am |
    • End Religion

      My goodness but the country is awash in idiots. A retired (read this as 'failed in his re-election bid') Washington State Supreme Court Justice helped a woman craft a claim to limit a $13,000 fine she received for an original failed claim PLUS a failed appeal concerning Obama's birth records. The next time you complain about "the media" ignoring you, consider it could be because you're a lying fuck.

      February 7, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • Really-O?

      @Ralph –

      examiner.com? That's your source? Really? And, did you even read the article? In no way does this article indicate any Supreme Court has agreed to hear this case. Simply put, a retired judge (who most likely possesses some nutty right-wing ideas himself) has agreed to assist a woman in fighting a fine she received for filing a frivolous "birther" action with the court.


      February 7, 2013 at 11:38 am |
  20. True Dichotomy

    I always expect to hear the answer that popularity does not equate with truth, but just give my comment some thought. On average, exceedingly large groups of people tend to be right on any given topic. This is just plain statistics. It is true that there are over 2.3 billion people that subscribe to some form of Christianity.

    February 7, 2013 at 12:18 am |
    • redzoa

      First off, the following statement is unqualified and unfounded: "On average, exceedingly large groups of people tend to be right on any given topic." Second, it's a classic argumentum ad populum fallacy. Lastly, when looking at the numbers across the board, Christianity, although the largest single block of believers, is still a minority among all potential adherents:

      February 7, 2013 at 12:30 am |
    • A Frayed Knot

      True Dichotomy,

      The population of the world at present is a bit over 7 billion.
      There are approximately 2.1 billion Christians, which is around 33 per cent.


      Over 2,000 years now (with heavy propaganda) and still 2/3rds of the world does not believe the Jesus legend.

      February 7, 2013 at 12:34 am |
    • Bet

      So if everyone else was going to jump off a bridge, would you jump off it too?

      February 7, 2013 at 12:36 am |
    • Science

      Sorry CREATION LOST.

      EVOLUTION IN A TEST TUBE Jan. 30 2013

      News Release

      3-D structure of the evolved enzyme (an RNA ligase), using 10 overlaid snapshots. In the top region, the overlays show the range of bending and folding flexibility in the amino acid chain that forms the molecule. The two gray balls are zinc ions. (University of Minnesota)

      University of Minnesota researchers unveil first artificial enzyme created by evolution in a test tube

      Thanks Doc.

      February 7, 2013 at 5:36 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.