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Bucking previous trends, survey finds growth of the religiously unaffiliated slowing
January 10th, 2013
01:30 PM ET

Bucking previous trends, survey finds growth of the religiously unaffiliated slowing

By Dan Merica, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='DanMericaCNN']

Washington (CNN) – After years of marked growth, the size of Americans who identify with no religion slowed in 2012, according to a study released Thursday.

Since 2008, the percentage of Americans who identify as religious "nones" has grown from 14.6% to 17.8% in 2012, according to the Gallup survey. That number, which grew nearly one percentage point every year from 2008 to 2011, grew only 0.3% last year – from 17.5% in 2011 to 17.8% in 2012 – making it the smallest increase over the past five years.

This study contrasts with headlines from previous studies on religious “nones,” including a 2012 study by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life that found the group was the fastest growing "religious" group in America and that one in five Americans now identify with no religion.

“Although this ‘rise of the nones’ has increased dramatically over recent decades, the rate of increase slowed last year, suggesting the possibility that there may be a leveling off in this measure in the years ahead,” reports the Gallup study, which is made up of more than 350,000 interviews.

Frank Newport, editor-in-chief of Gallup, says these results suggest “that religion may be maintaining itself or even increasing in the years ahead.”

“Our current ability to look at it over five years with these big surveys suggests the possibility that the growth [of the nones] may not be inexorable,” Newport says.

CNN Belief Blog: Christmas exposes atheist divide on dealing with religion

In his book, “God is Alive and Well: The Future of Religion in America,” Newport argues that a number of factors, including baby boomers reaching senior ages, migration to more religious states, recognition of health and well being of religion and an increase in a Hispanic population, are all reasons that “we are going to continue to have a quite religious nation going forward.”

Atheist and humanist activists disagree and pushed back against the Gallup study.

“The truth is, it doesn't really matter whether one of these surveys – even a big one like Gallup – shows the number leveling off a bit this past year,” Greg Epstein, humanist chaplain at Harvard University, says. “First of all, the numbers for young Americans are still dramatically higher, and secondly, it is beyond dispute now that the "nones" are one of the largest demographic groups in the United States, and we're going to stay that way for a long, long time.”

The Gallup study also found that 27% of Americans age 18 to 29 identified as religious nones, making the age group the largest subgroup in the study. The finding tracks with other studies on religious nones, many of which have found the growth among the religiously unaffiliated has been most notable among people who are 18 to 29 years old.

“There's no slowing here at the Secular Student Alliance. We're up to 394 campus groups from 310 a year ago,” Jesse Galef, communications director at the organization, says in response to the survey. “You can see the religious future of America just by looking at the demographics: Young Americans (18-29) are almost three times as likely to be unaffiliated with religion than senior citizens are.”

In particular, Galef points out, the Secular Student Alliance has experienced growth in ages below 18, an age group that Gallup did not survey. In the last year, says Galef, the number of Secular Student Alliance affiliates at high schools doubled to 60 campuses.

CNN Belief Blog: My take: 'Atheist' isn’t a dirty word, congresswoman

News of strong growth among nones had long been heralded by their community.

As study after study began to report that religious nones in America were growing, many atheist, agnostic and humanist activists began to stress the need for these relative non-believers to come together and turn their numbers into political and social influence. Though some leaders split on what wielding that influence would look like, the size of religious nones became the impetus for many leaders to call for more recognition.

In response to the Gallup study, those calls continued.

“The real question now is when are our historically large numbers going to start turning into more votes and influence,” Epstein says. “The nones can become a steady and inspiring powerhouse in American life if we focus on what we do believe in.”

And even though the Gallup study found a relative leveling off of growth among the nones, David Silverman, the president of America Atheists, says he finds the survey “not at all troubling.”

“This underscores what American Atheists has been saying for years - that every person in America knows more nonreligious people than they think they know,” Silverman says. “America has to get used to the fact that atheists are everywhere, you already know us, and we are a vibrant and growing portion of society.”

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Atheism • Belief • Nones

soundoff (1,615 Responses)
  1. Gerry from Bayonne

    OK, obviously Tom Tom is using another name right now. Obviously too addicted to quit these kinds of discussions – too much fun to be had sh|tting on people.

    Tom, where are you?

    January 11, 2013 at 8:01 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      Probably had to call up the b|tch mother.

      WHY MOMMY? WHY?? Listen, you sit right there. I'll call back in an hour. I have to get back on line and berate people who think differently than me. Who remind me of my . . . . . . . DONT MAKE ME SAY HIS NAME, Mother!

      January 11, 2013 at 8:04 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      "What about us brain-dead slobs?"

      "You'll be given cushy jobs"

      Would you like to be a monorai driver Gerry?

      January 11, 2013 at 8:05 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Monorail.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:06 pm |
    • Answer

      Now the conversation skits. With the role play model.

      Good. I see you're employing capitals. Classic.

      Try less shouting and employ real conversation. It's better.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:06 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You rang? I've been here all along, fvckwit.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:07 pm |
    • Yackle

      Do you have a problem finding and using the reply button? You seem to.
      Oh, btw, Tom Tom, to my knowledge, has never posted under any other name.
      Tom Tom is also unafraid to tell you to fvck off. I am generally more reticent at doing so, but you are wearing my patience at your childish attempts to undermine me.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:08 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      I was right again. Too addicted.

      Tom, RL, and whatever other "enlightened" names you go by

      January 11, 2013 at 8:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      @ Yackie: 😉

      January 11, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If you think I'm RL, you ARE an idiot.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:11 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      If you had seen some of the vitriolic insults Tom and I have hurled at each other in the past, you would not make that accusation.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:12 pm |
    • Answer

      "and whatever other "enlightened" names you go by"

      –Failure to put reality into perspective.

      A common rationale is to assume that the US and Canada (just NA alone) has 400+ million people. Even at 20% internet home connection.. that is a lot of people.

      And we have various trolls and now the religious tards all say the same thing.. "you're using multiple handles". That's called paranoia. Funny as hell.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What RL said. (Aside to RL: the enemy of my enemy is my friend.)

      January 11, 2013 at 8:14 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Answer

      To be fair, Christians do it often enough so it's not implausible that an atheist has multiple monikers.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:16 pm |
    • Answer

      @RL

      Quite true.

      Although what I do is simply to treat everyone as a stated individual. It's the most simplistic of approaches.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:17 pm |
    • Yackle

      Probably had to call up the b|tch mother.

      "WHY MOMMY? WHY?? Listen, you sit right there. I'll call back in an hour. I have to get back on line and berate people who think differently than me. Who remind me of my . . . . . . . DONT MAKE ME SAY HIS NAME, Mother!"

      Projecting what has happened to you onto others again. I think you should seek therapy. You sound entirely too familiar with this scenario.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:18 pm |
    • the AnViL

      ha ha tomtom bludgeoned yet another retard....

      gerry seems a little upset...

      oh the tears... the grief.... the agony.

      you're such a brute, tomtom.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      *Blushing* Shucks, all, I's just funnin'.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:30 pm |
  2. Gerry from Bayonne

    So Yackle – what is your research paper on, exactly???

    January 11, 2013 at 7:58 pm |
    • Answer

      Oh another of those tactics...

      –>Get to know your opponent. Classic.

      Once you find out you'll go do some google and be the little religious freak that you are and lie about yourself to match your opponent. Fake a better standard of knowledge.

      I wonder if you're good at it or not.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:03 pm |
    • Yackle

      "Ass holes On The Internet: The Nature Of Internet Trolls As It Relates To Faith And Deviate Se.xuality". Starring you, of course

      January 11, 2013 at 8:03 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      Oooh (Merv Griffin)! Sounds interesting.

      Good luck.

      Make sure you run it through Lexis-Nexis. Profs hate copycats

      January 11, 2013 at 8:07 pm |
    • Yackle

      I'll assume you speak from experience. And that's not the name of my paper; but it certainly fits you.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:12 pm |
  3. Gerry from Bayonne

    Hey everyone! Meet Yackle. He's working on his doctoral dissertation on all you weird trolls. Open wide and spit to the side!

    Yes, Yackle, I would like fries with that . . .

    January 11, 2013 at 7:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yawn. Pedestrian. Network TV is more interesting.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      @Yackle

      And can my kids have the Hobbit figurines with their Happy Meals, please.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
    • Yackle

      No, not everyone, but you're interesting. And why don't you just swallow like you usually do?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:50 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      "Is there a chance the track could bend?"

      "Not on your life, my Hindu friend"

      January 11, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
    • Yackle

      Oh, I see, you were projecting what you do to your children onto Tom Tom a while ago. I'll put that into the paper. And if you keep taking your children toMcDonald's, they will undoubtedly be as fat as you and your inflated ego seems to be.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:53 pm |
    • Answer

      The most common type of put downs...

      #1 –> Attack their station in life..

      when that fails

      #2 Attack their wealth status. XD

      **Religious freaks – always trying to get to know you because they want to be seen as living the better life. You'll never succeed over the internet. It's better to come face to face and show your bank account details.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:53 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      @Yackle

      Make sure your show your "professor" (Aka, Asst Mgr of the deep frier) your posts as well. It would make for interesting discussion.

      "Hey kid, go mop the bathrooms"

      January 11, 2013 at 7:54 pm |
    • Answer

      "Hey kid, go mop the bathrooms" <<–

      The other tactic is of course to demean your opponent by usage of adult to child relationship.

      Ahh the old classics.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:56 pm |
    • mama k

      oh dear is this lionly when his rabies medication is running low?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:57 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      "Our universe" is just "one" among immeasurable universes. All these universes clustered together may well be but a ginormous jellyfish living within a great sea upon an world so vast, we will never truly be able to ascertain this plausibility of ginormous scalar revelation."

      This insightful quote came from lionlylamb last night in between Christian mumbo-jumbo rants. I was shocked.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:02 pm |
    • mama k

      I used to compose more music. If I had been on the drugs I suspect lionly must be on to write that stuff, I would have produced my own Sun Ra symphony for the cosmos by now.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
  4. Gerry from Bayonne

    Yackle says he's doing research. LOL! Yeah.

    Uh, first you have to get INTO college before you take upper-level classes. Just so you know.

    You seem like a bright kid . . . just go to Wiki, you're sure to get an A at the 13th grade you go to.

    January 11, 2013 at 7:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The voice of experience brays. Are you uniformed yet, Geraldine?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      "Why Joe, I had no idea"

      "Come on now, you were working here"

      January 11, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      RL, you are a connoisseur! I had no idea.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:44 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      Come on Tom Tom – this is getting boring.

      Give me some more Jersey jokes.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
    • Answer

      I, personally, love studying the religious freaks on these comment blogs.

      You freaks really love to project your hatred outward onto others. Just fascinating stuff.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
    • Yackle

      Aw. Does the thought of somebody being at a college other than your alma mater barber college make you envious?
      The only upper classes you know about are the ones you serve everyday while on your knees after you make their bed and clean the bathroom.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Tom

      I imagine if we stay off the topic of economics there's a lot we'd find surprisingly positive about each other.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I'm sure you are quite right, RL. Perhaps we should attempt to do just that.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:00 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      I enjoy the music of Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart and Gentle Giant. I enjoy the films of Ingmar Bergman, Andrei Tarkovsky and Stanley Kubrick.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hmm. I'm more of a classical music sort, RL. Love jazz as well. And lots of other genres. But I do think that Danny Elfman's musical numbers are stellar.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:09 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      What jazz and classical? I like Stravinsky, Coletrane and Ornette Coleman.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Stravinsky, absolutely. But also Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Haydn, Barber, Telemann, Prokofiev, and on and on. Too many to name. As far as jazz? Love Brubeck (RIP–saw him live in 2010), love Miles, love most "traditional" jazz, not so much the "progressive" stuff. Lots of "old" rock: Grateful Dead, Led Zeppelin, etc.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
    • mama k

      Damn you two. you're sending love signals to my iTunes. it keeps bouncing down there at the bottom of my screen.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:24 pm |
    • mama k

      Gentle Giant – you don't hear that everyday anymore.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ha, mama. Last night, i tunes kept jumping up and invading my screen every time I stepped away from the computer.

      The MACHINES! THEY'RE GONNA TAKE OVER! AAAAHHH!

      January 11, 2013 at 8:32 pm |
  5. Gerry from Bayonne

    Tom Tom – making fun of NJ is about the smartest and funniest thing you've said all night. Granted, it's childish, but your jabs are funny – even though they are the jabs of an abused ALANON geek

    January 11, 2013 at 7:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Aww. You're just tho thenthitive.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:35 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      I have a soft spot in my heart for the pathetic!

      January 11, 2013 at 7:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Of course you do. You're one of them.

      My word, but you're dull company.

      Can you really not do any better than this sort of lukewarm drivel?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:39 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      "Who needs the Kwik-E-Mart?"

      "There floors are Stick-E-Mart"

      "Let's hurl a Brick-E-Mart"

      In case you're wondering people, I find this a far more constructive response to trolls like Gerry.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:39 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Their, sorry. As a grammar Nazi myself, I find that thoroughly appalling.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:40 pm |
    • Yackle

      Bet you affirm that every time you look in the mirror, Gerry.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:40 pm |
  6. Gerry from Bayonne

    I say again . .

    It's a picture showing a throng of the disaffected, the abused, the former fundamentalists, the kids who were raised by fundamentalists, people whose parents were alkies', religious, but wildly hypocritical, who never actually studied religion, science, philosophy, etc. A sad and confused group.

    You are all proof of the very things I said. Sad, indeed.

    January 11, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Boy, you are lame to the 10th power.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
    • Yackle

      Actually, it's a Billy Graham Tent Revival that someone photoshopped the "impeach God" sign into.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:27 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      @Tom – you know they call Bayonne the "insular peninsula-r"

      It's come a long way in the last decade

      January 11, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      "Were you sent here by the Devil?"

      "No good sir, I'm on the level"

      January 11, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Gerry,

      "Well, Clarice – have the lambs stopped screaming?"

      January 11, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Geraldine, it's the armpit of the universe.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
    • Sue

      Gerry, you claim to be able to speak to the education of each member of the group in the picture. I call bullshit on that. Please retract your claim, unless you can immediately present the academic record of each person in the photo.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      Hey yackle – have you been trolling these blogs for a long time too, thereby not making you a troll, but a . . . .troll, I mean, "regular"

      Professional raconteur?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      At least he's not uniformed, fvcktard.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:31 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      @Sue

      Where did you go to graduate school, and what was you dissertation on?

      Just curious.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:32 pm |
    • Answer

      I see it's another one of the same long line of religious e-j-a-c j-i-z-z-e-r-s.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Curious? Why? Are you going to steal her ident ity?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
    • Yackle

      Actually, Gerry, I don't troll. I would be called more of a lurker, but your idiocy lately has led my to post. I'm actually gathering information for a class in abnormal psycology, and you've made the cut. Thanks!

      January 11, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      @ Tom Tom –

      I'm doing the best I can! I can't keep up with you Mensa types too good.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:42 pm |
  7. Gerry from Bayonne

    LOL @ Yackle!!!

    "Sue and Tom are not trolls . . . they've been here a long time."

    Irony is always lost on the stupid

    January 11, 2013 at 7:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So true. You didn't get it, did you?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      Why mommy? Why'd ya let him do it????

      January 11, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      "Our skimpy costumes ain't so bad"

      "They seem to entertain your Dad"

      January 11, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Danny Elfman rules, RL.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
    • Yackle

      It would be delicious irony if you had admitted to being the troll, as you are. Dupliciousness of name changers bear that out. LOL @ you being busted again.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
  8. Gerry from Bayonne

    Hey – all you hate-junkies, don't get me wrong. Just because I diagnose the reason for your anger, doesn't mean I'm unsympathetic. Believe me, if I was raised by nut-jobs like your parents, I would be angry too

    January 11, 2013 at 7:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nah. You're just another sock puppet of the same ass wipe. Get bent.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Go get "uniformed", Geraldine. Preferably in a hospital johnny or a straitjacket.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      "Get your paws off me you filthy ape."

      "He can talk, he can talk, he can talk."

      "I can SIIIING"

      January 11, 2013 at 7:14 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      It's OK Tom Tom . . . Daddy's not going to touch you there anymore! It's all over now. Time to move on

      January 11, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @TTTPS,

      this one really is a bilious little toad isn't he?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I guess yours must still be abusing you...

      January 11, 2013 at 7:17 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      And boy does Gerry love number ten on the list of the top thirteen most irritatingly stupid arguments religionists make here:

      10. Atheists hate (and/or are mad at) God.
      eg: You atheists here are so full of hate. – Yeah, right back atcha baby!
      eg: Atheists hate God. – A ludicrous notion, how can you resent something you don’t believe exists.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Run of the mill, notaGOPer. He's nothing special.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      @ Tom

      And that witch your mother . . . she let him do it! Why, mommy? Why?????

      January 11, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Is that what you said?

      Why didn't you call the cops?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      See what I mean, notaGOPer? It's just a game of the dozens and he's not very good at it.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
    • Yackle

      Oh, so you are an advovate for incest and molestation, Gerry? That explains things...if your sister/mama would have swallowed, you wouldn't be here.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @TTTPS,

      yep, I do indeed.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • Yackle

      He makes up different names and he couldn't come up with a better location than Bayonne?? God, what a stupid cvnt.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No kidding. If I had to make up a hometown for myself, there are about 50 million that would be better than that.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:27 pm |
    • sam

      This troll is a particularly creepy weirdo.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:27 pm |
    • Yackle

      Bringing up kiddy r.ape? I'll say. Bet he's on a registry somewhere.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:33 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Or he's a Catholic. Pretty run-of-the-mill for them.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:43 pm |
  9. lamb of dog

    That's funny Geraldine. I would happily watch god on YouTube but I can't find him there either. Please post a link to one of his videos.
    Thanks

    January 11, 2013 at 7:11 pm |
  10. lamb of dog

    That's funny Geraldine. I would happily watch god on YouTube but I can't find him there either.

    January 11, 2013 at 7:10 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Search using the term Captain Beefheart. God will appear soon after.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:12 pm |
  11. Gerry from Bayonne

    Sue and Tom Tom are textbook internet trolls. Angry, cowards, uniformed, but mainly stoking an unquenchable anger, whose spark was lit by mommy and daddy

    January 11, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Blah, blah blah. Translation of Geraldine's post: Geraldine doesn't have a comeback because he's too dumb to figure out Bayonne is a toilet.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, and I've never worn a uniform, either, dumbfvck.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You've outed yourself. That same error was made by your sock puppets.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      But somebody who uses the words "hate God crowd" isn't a troll?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:02 pm |
    • Yackle

      No, Sue and Tom Tom have been here for a long, long time....you know who hasn't been? You. Ass hole.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, the moron's been here before. He's just using another name. One of many. He's had his butt handed to him so many times it's too embarrassing to use most of his names any longer.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Root post by 'Gerry from Bayonne' is an instance of the ad hominem fallacy.

      http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      January 11, 2013 at 7:07 pm |
  12. Aldewacs

    "Bucking previous trends, survey finds growth of the religiously unaffiliated slowing".
    ________

    Who said that the media only reports bad news?

    January 11, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      Indeed! The headline is true. The problem for the hate-God crowd is that YouTube has been in rampant use now for about 5-8 years. The surge in new atheists has died off because we have all now see EVERY Dawkins, Hitchens, Maher, and Carlin video, and found them lacking – and wrong, and hateful

      January 11, 2013 at 6:41 pm |
    • Sue

      No, virtually ever user group population that sees a rapid rise in usage heads for an asymptote or declines eventually, for a variety of reasons unrelated to your claim. Your claim of the apparent saturation being due to hate is unsubstantiated, and false.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      Wrong again, Suzi Q

      January 11, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Real convincing, Geraldine. I doubt you have a clue what Sue was talking about.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      Tom – don't you have re-runs of R. Dawkins to watch?

      January 11, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Don't you have a date to inflate?

      January 11, 2013 at 6:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Bayonne, NJ is a complete dump of a town. No wonder you can afford to live there, Gerrygelding.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Could you please tell me who exactly the misotheistic crowd are, because I've never actually encountered a misotheist?

      January 11, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
    • Terry

      miso theist = a believer in the Great Soup God.

      All hail our soy/rice master.

      Sorry, been a long day at work...

      January 11, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Me, too, Terry. I laughed.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
  13. PrimeNumber

    The young man in right front of the photo with the black shirt interests me. The symbol depicts the atheist "A" as the nucleus of an atom. A more appropriate symbol would be the atheist "A" in the center of a mushroom cloud. After all, that would better depict what the secularists actually did with the atom.

    January 11, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • niknak

      You do know that the president who gave the order to drop those bombs, Harry Truman, was a devout Babstist, right?

      January 11, 2013 at 6:05 pm |
    • Answer

      Good.

      We hope to annihilate you. XD

      January 11, 2013 at 6:05 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Scientists may have made the discovery (and many subsequently regretted it) but it was Truman who chose to use it. Was he an atheist?

      January 11, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      It's a picture showing a throng of the disaffected, the abused, the former fundamentalists, the kids who were raised by fundamentalists, people whose parents were alkies', religious, but wildly hypocritical, who never actually studied religion, science, philosophy, etc. A sad and confused group

      January 11, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
    • Sue

      Gerry, you claim to be able to speak to the education of each member of the group in the picture. I call bullshit on that. Please retract your claim, unless you can immediately present the academic record of each person in the photo.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      Sue – why don't you present your credentials first!

      January 11, 2013 at 6:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why should she? You're the one making the claims, Geraldine.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      @ Tom & Sue

      I stand by my statement – and will raise you the both of you. You two (too) are angry, formerly abused, and ignorant of theology, philosophy, AND science. You are internet trolls – period

      January 11, 2013 at 6:52 pm |
    • Sue

      Gerry, don't try to change the subject. Respond with substance or show some guts for a change and retract your claim if you can't support it.

      You coward!

      January 11, 2013 at 6:52 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      I'm not changing the subject. I just said – I STAND BY MY STATEMENT. (same topic). Those people in the picture are, largely, what I said they are. and so are you

      January 11, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • Sue

      Thanks for also standing up to our latest religious coward, Tom Tom. Such pushback is much needed, I have to say, when they use every dodge available, even on themselves (which is part of their problem).

      January 11, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nope. But you ARE a troll who hails from a sh!t-hole in Jersey.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Eh, ignore the twit. It's just lol under another name.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
    • Gerry from Bayonne

      I rest my case . . .

      January 11, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
    • Sue

      Nice try at another dodge, coward Gerry. You tried to change the subject to my credentials, and I'm calling you on it, as Tom Tom also did very appropriately, and as the record shows.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:57 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Gerry from Bayonne:

      it's a picture of people.. many of them smiling. they look happy. anything beyond that is speculation.

      you've just provided evidence of your delusional thinking.

      good form!

      cha cha cha

      January 11, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "A more appropriate symbol would be the atheist "A" in the center of a mushroom cloud. After all, that would better depict what the secularists actually did with the atom.

      And here was me thinking that a so many of the great minds that worked on the Manhattan project were Jews.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:07 pm |
    • End Religion

      maybe a photo from the Reason Rally in DC

      January 11, 2013 at 8:25 pm |
  14. { ! }

    "A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. " G. K. Chesterton

    January 11, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Presumably Chesterton meant they should stick to the big book of smiting to remind them what drove them to atheism?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:11 pm |
  15. niknak

    Where you at Billybob Deacon Blues?

    Did those mean old atheists make too much fun of your imaginary friend and bum you out too much?
    Don't worry, a warm glass of milk and a few babble versus will make it all better.

    Question for you;

    Have you fundies figured out what happens when you get divorced?
    You know, is she still your sister?

    January 11, 2013 at 5:08 pm |
  16. Ansonia

    Since at least 1960, America has been used to ( and comfortable with ) the fact that many Americans are atheists. The only recent change is that there are now more atheists who feel they shouldn't have to be as tolerant of believers as believers are of atheists.

    January 11, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • Ham23

      I've helped elect religious people ever since I started voting in the 1960s, but how many atheists have been voted in by the religious majority? I think that there are even states that legally prohibit atheists from running for public office. Where is the tolerance in that?

      January 11, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • JWT

      There are an awful lot of religious people that feel everyone should have to live by the rules of their version of religion. Its way past time for them to change.

      January 11, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Ham23: you're absolutely correct... here's the list of states who discriminate against atheists holding public office:

      Arkansas, Article 19, Section 1:
      No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court.

      Maryland, Article 37:
      That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Const itution.

      Mississippi, Article 14, Section 265:
      No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.

      North Carolina, Article 6, Section 8
      The following persons shall be disqualified for office: Any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.

      South Carolina, Article 17, Section 4:
      No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Consti tution.

      Tennessee, Article 9, Section 2:
      No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.

      funny stuff

      January 11, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Believers tolerant of atheists? Church bells ringing to remind the flock it's time to pay homage and tithe, christian rules on public buildings, fundamentalist curriculum in schools (or home schooling on the public dollar), you're all going to fry in hell, etc. Doesn't seem that tolerant to me.

      January 11, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
  17. niknak

    Sorry, pointless

    January 11, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
  18. niknak

    Scooped this off the internet, pretty funny, especially since all your fundies love to quote your babble as being 100% perfect and true.
    Then explain to us why there are these contradictions;

    1. God is satisfied with his works
    Gen 1:31
    God is dissatisfied with his works.
    Gen 6:6
    2. God dwells in chosen temples
    2 Chron 7:12,16
    God dwells not in temples
    Acts 7:48
    3. God dwells in light
    Tim 6:16
    God dwells in darkness
    1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
    4. God is seen and heard
    Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
    Ex 24:9-11
    God is invisible and cannot be heard
    John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
    5. God is tired and rests
    Ex 31:17
    God is never tired and never rests
    Is 40:28
    6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
    Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
    God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
    things
    Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
    7. God knows the hearts of men
    Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
    God tries men to find out what is in their heart
    Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
    8. God is all powerful
    Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
    God is not all powerful
    Judg 1:19
    9. God is unchangeable
    James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
    God is changeable
    Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
    Ex 33:1,3,17,14
    10. God is just and impartial
    Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
    God is unjust and partial
    Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
    11. God is the author of evil
    Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
    God is not the author of evil
    1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
    12. God gives freely to those who ask
    James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
    God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
    them
    John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
    13. God is to be found by those who seek him
    Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
    God is not to be found by those who seek him
    Prov 1:28
    14. God is warlike
    Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
    God is peaceful
    Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
    15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
    Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
    God is kind, merciful, and good
    James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
    1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
    16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
    Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
    God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
    Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
    17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
    sacrifices ,and holy days
    Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
    God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
    sacrifices, and holy days.
    Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
    18. God accepts human sacrifices
    2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
    God forbids human sacrifice
    Deut 12:30,31
    19. God tempts men
    Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
    God tempts no man
    James 1:13
    20. God cannot lie
    Heb 6:18
    God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
    2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
    21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
    Gen 6:5,7
    Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
    Gen 8:21
    22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
    Rom 1:20
    God's attributes cannot be discovered
    Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
    23. There is but one God
    Deut 6:4
    There is a plurality of gods
    Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

    January 11, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • the AnViL

      niknak you heartless b@stard!! how DARE you lucidly point out glaring inconsistencies in the bible!!!

      January 11, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
    • niknak

      Yeah Advil, I am just a dik that way.......

      January 11, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • lol??

      Lookin' for a shortcut, niknak? W C Fields on his deathbed was lookin' for loopholes. Why don't you just paint your own fence instead of bein' so lazy?

      January 11, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
    • lol??

      AnViL, you lucid dreamed one too many times.

      January 11, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • the AnViL

      the only thing funnier than the long list of inconsistencies in the bible – is the long list of failed biblical prophecies.

      January 11, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • lol??

      C'mon AnViL, what's the punch line? Is nikynaky the straight man?

      January 11, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
    • the AnViL

      the only thing funnier than the long list of inconsistencies in the bible and the long list of failed biblical prophecies...

      is watching delusional xians attempt to explain and excuse the elements in those long lists.

      January 11, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
    • the AnViL

      lol?? – you still aren't funny... and you're still an idiot.

      January 11, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • lol??

      Poor widdle ol' me!

      January 11, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
    • niknak

      Loloser,
      Not quite sure how painting my own fence fits in, but I will try to remember to do it myself when it is needs another coat.

      But as to those babble inconsistencies, I posted those because you fundies just love to quote your babble as the word of god, and to it being infallible (except when it does not support your cause, then it seems to be just allegory or references some other part somewhere).

      Look, I really don't care that you believe in god(s). It is your deal.
      And I would not come here and try to mess with your beliefs IF you people would leave us alone to not believe.
      But you don't.
      You pass your god off as fact, then go out and try to force us to go along with it (remember, it is the general you, not you personally).
      You fundies try to inject your god into our government, into our laws, into our science, our schools and of course into our bedrooms.
      And I am not too happy about that whole tax exempt status for your communicators to god either.
      I am tired of having to pay more in taxes so that your churches can get freebies, and then preach politics from the pulpit.

      But I know you will never change.
      You want to howl at the moon, and you won't be content until everyone else goes out and howls along with you.

      January 11, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      LOL?? He had a great sense of humor or do you see it as another version of Pascal's Wager?

      January 11, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Classic Atheist mumbo jumbo–an internet cut and paste hack job. Every single one of those alleged inconsistencies is wrong–completely out of context, improperly and wrongly paraphrased, missed the inherent translation problem, failed to identify cultural nuances or on their face not inconsistent. Take the first one for example: God satisfied/God Dissatisfied. That would only be true if it were a though held at the same time–but not what the Bible says. God was satisfied THEN BECAME dissatisfied. No contradiction there.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
    • VanHagar

      sorry for typo..."thought" not "though"

      January 11, 2013 at 6:03 pm |
    • the AnViL

      VanHagar = eisegete

      January 11, 2013 at 6:04 pm |
    • VanHagar

      @AnVil...nice try but wrong. If you think my interpretation of the first purported inconsistency is based upon my own bias, then prove me wrong–prove that the two verses identify God's thinking at ONE moment and not two.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • VanHagar

      In other words...prove that I took the verses out of context.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
    • the AnViL

      vanhagar... there is NO way you can refute all of the inconsistencies in your bible without applying arguable interpretations.

      of course, you're welcome to run down the list and apply all your explanations... and when you do, keep in mind – it's already been done – and there are a number of explanations which will refute yours.

      good luck with that, champ!

      January 11, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
    • Bob

      VanHagar, your latest line of argument actually makes your case even worse. Far worse. Consider this, given what you said:

      How it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken out of context, and that has so many mistakes in it.

      For that matter, hy can't your "god" get with the times and push some tweets out, or even get with the last decade and produce his own website?

      Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there, that can't even do basic stuff on the web that even kids can do.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      January 11, 2013 at 6:40 pm |
    • Bob

      VanHagar, your latest line of argument actually makes your case even worse. Far worse. Consider this, given what you said:

      How it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken out of context, and that has so many mistakes in it.

      For that matter, why can't your "god" get with the times and push some tweets out, or even get with the last decade and produce his own website?

      Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there, that can't even do basic stuff on the web that even kids can do.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      January 11, 2013 at 6:42 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Bob, I really don't mean any disrespect...but that really is one of the dumbest things I've read (and not just today).

      January 11, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
    • VanHagar

      @AnVil...so I take it you agree with me that i did not take the verses out of context to prove that there was no inconsistency because you obviously didn't take the bait (good for you). But since you've change the subject...why don't we pick up your challenge a little later–I have to sign off here in the next few minutes. Why don't you pick a few of your favorite inconsistencies and I'll respond in another thread...I'll find you.

      January 11, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Post by 'Van Hagar' is an instance of the ad hominem fallacy.

      http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      January 11, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
    • Cherries

      It is well known that the Bible is full of contradictions, as niknak just illustrated. It is also well known the the people who quote it to suit their agendas will not defend such evidence when it is presented...and indeed, often show what hypocrites they are by using diverting tactics to avoid actually explain the contradictions, preffering instead to commit the sin of lol??ism. God is not pleased.

      January 11, 2013 at 7:12 pm |
    • lol??

      cherries, ".......sin of lol??ism........" This oughta be a sweet one. OK, what is it? (variant of knock knock joke)

      January 11, 2013 at 7:44 pm |
    • the AnViL

      vanhagar – no.. i do not agree with you. i never accused you of taking things out of context.

      i was clear: niknak provided you with a list of contradi ctions in your bible. you can attempt to refute all of those contradictions... but you cannot do it without applying arguable interpretations of those contradi ctions.

      pick one? let's stick with the first.

      your omnipotent, omniscient, perfect, infallible imaginary man in the sky created the planet and all the things on the planet... and was satisfied – his work was good – then in the span of a few years... became dissatisfied with his works.

      how is it possible that an all-knowing, perfect imaginary man in the sky can create anything that he declares good... only to become displeased when his creation fails?

      how can your perfect, infallible, omniscient, omnipotent, imaginary man in the sky do ANYTHING in err? why would your imaginary man in the sky create anything knowing that it would displease him... and declare it "good" to begin with??? that might make sense to you.. and you might even attempt to reason it by saying "oh first he was happy then things went south and he became unhappy." but it doesn't reconcile the fact that your imaginary man in the sky either knowingly produced faulty work fully aware that it would eventually displease him, and that was good to him... or produced faulty work unaware that it would eventually displease him. - hardly omniscient... hardly omnipotent. infallible??? pish posh.

      now before you go seeking an explanation and start fumbling in an attempt to reason this wonderful contradi ction... i will provide you with the most obvious explanation:

      there's no gods. your imaginary man in the sky exists only between the ears of those who choose to suspend reason and believe this garbage.

      now why don't you work your way down the list. let's see what you come up with.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:08 pm |
    • the AnViL

      vanhagar – "If you think my interpretation of the first purported inconsistency is based upon my own bias..."

      your interpretations are just that – interpretations.... and they're certainly, without a doubt, biased.

      January 11, 2013 at 8:15 pm |
    • lol??

      anvil sayz, ".......then in the span of a few years... became dissatisfied with his works........" Where does it say a few years? Are you illusioning?

      January 11, 2013 at 8:30 pm |
    • the AnViL

      loltard:

      i was obviously condensing, lepton.

      now patch up your weak-a$$ infantile spleen and get over yourself.

      January 11, 2013 at 9:45 pm |
  19. Moby Schtick

    It's stupid to say that god created the universe but people are responsible for the evil that exists. If god created the universe, then he could have designed it to "break down" differently when humans "disobeyed" as they were bound to do in the silly situation put forth in the opening chapters of Genesis.

    If a car, when it breaks down, causes a nuclear explosion, you can blame the driver for not taking care of the engine----a little bit, but you also blame the stupid car company that made a car that is ABLE to break down and cause such death and destruction by its mere misuse.

    January 11, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • niknak

      You must have missed the memo Mobester.
      God is only responsible for the good things, like when Tim Tebow scores a touchdown.
      But when something bad happens, like Sandy Hook or hurricane Sandy, it is not it's fault at all, or it is just testing us.

      January 11, 2013 at 4:52 pm |
    • Cherries

      And that tree of knowledge? mEH. If God is all knowing, why put the tree there? Either God forgets a lot, and needed an fruit mind-jab, or God put that tree there to test A&E, setting them up to fail, which he knew they would, being all knowing. God the gamer. Really?

      January 11, 2013 at 7:15 pm |
  20. I AM

    I love religion, it is worse than politics. Both so nonsensical in all regards. You can say whatever you want and it is right. There is no wrong, if you are on the side of what is being said. Now you will have people disagree with you, but your belief is that what you say is right, there is usually no compromise. The truth is, there is no truth. Only what you believe.

    January 11, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      And yet without them, the advances that allowed you to say that on the Internet would have never occurred.

      January 11, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • Ham23

      You have to admit, however, that science has been proven to actually work most of the time, and actually has processes where mistakes are sought out and replaced by better ideas, whereas religion so often holds onto ideas that are clearly wrong for a very long time just because they're written in an ancient book with God as a character.

      January 11, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Give us an example of a Christian idea that is wrong. Not one you disagree with but one that is wrong

      January 11, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
    • niknak

      Hey, it's Deacon Blues!
      Back to enlighten us all about his imaginary friend.

      Oh, here is one gen I plucked from your babble that is a xtian idea that most would take as being wrong.
      Maybe not you, but most.

      However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

      January 11, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Bill, you need to clarify. What qualifications are there for a legitimate "christian idea?" How can an idea be "wrong" if its origin is a being whose might makes him right (he's automatically right because he's the biggest---god) and thus his morality is subjective because he can do anything and it be "right" regardless of if he says that we shouldn't do it because it's wrong?

      Whether or not someone agrees that "christian ideas" are right or wrong, most of them are fvcking stupid. "Here, let me make this really awesome good thing that can go from perfect to horribly wrong with one person's one bite of one piece of fruit. Then, let me sacrifice myself to myself to appease myself to exploit a loophole I put in the plan myself whereby I only have to torture some of my creation for all eternity in my private torture pit."

      January 11, 2013 at 4:38 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "Give us an example of a Christian idea that is wrong. Not one you disagree with but one that is wrong"

      Atheists are bitter and unhappy. You love pretending that's true, but it's just another lie. I love my life and my family, and things get better all the time.

      January 11, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • Ham23

      Bill
      It use to be a Christian idea that black people were meant to be enslaved. They could point to a Genesis story for justification. Was forced slavery based on race ever right? Now, Christians can still point to their Bibles for justification in not allowing gays to have the same right to marry that they enjoy. I'm saying that, without religious objections to gay marriage, is there any other argument that would be posed against it? It's only wrong on religious grounds; ancient ones from a culture far removed from our own at that.

      January 11, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • niknak

      Hamms23, you will find it is piontly trying to get anything of substance out of Deacon Blues, or any of the fundies on here for that matter.
      They closed their minds long ago to facts, or logic.
      The belief in some 2000 year old fairy tale is more important then anything else in their lives.

      January 11, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • Ham23

      niknak
      People use to ask why good Germans would still become Nazis. The answer lay in the fact that any system that empowers you over others is often too attractive not to join, and any system that persecutes others is often not one that you want to criticize either. I see a lot of similarity between this and Christianity.

      January 11, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • lol??

      ham23, where did you come up vis gut Germans?.........."Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God."

      January 11, 2013 at 8:10 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.