home
RSS
A killing, a life sentence and my change of heart
Jeanne Bishop, left, and her sister Nancy visit Scotland in 1990, the year before Nancy's murder.
February 2nd, 2013
10:00 PM ET

A killing, a life sentence and my change of heart

Editor's note: Jeanne Bishop is the sister of Nancy Bishop Langert, who, along with her husband and their unborn child, was shot to death by a juvenile. Since the murder of her family members, Jeanne Bishop has been an advocate for gun violence prevention, forgiveness and abolition of the death penalty. She is a criminal defense attorney in Chicago.

By Jeanne Bishop, Special to CNN

(CNN) - I have been paying close attention to the changes coming since the U.S. Supreme Court struck down any mandatory life sentences for juveniles who kill.  A teenager killed my sister.

He killed her dream, too. She wanted to be a mom.

My sister Nancy married young.  She was overjoyed when she got pregnant at age 25.

That dream died three months later, when she and her husband walked through the front door of their home and found their killer waiting for them.

He was a 16-year-old with a history of violence.  He wanted to see what it was like to kill someone. He found out when he broke in and shot Nancy, Richard and their unborn baby and left them to die on a cold basement floor.

When the killer was arrested, details emerged that turned my stomach. He had joked about murdering my family members, even attended their funeral.

When he was convicted of the murders, he was remorseless. When he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, I was glad.

After sentencing, my mother turned to me in the courtroom and said, “We’ll never see him again.” I was glad of that, too.  I wanted to wipe him off my hands like dirt.

I never spoke his name. I wanted his name to die and Nancy’s to live.

When a coalition of people (including law professors such as Bernardine Dohrn and Randolph Stone whose advocacy on behalf of children I have always admired) launched efforts to abolish juvenile life sentences, I was appalled. The last thing I wanted was to attend parole hearings year after year, to beg bureaucrats not to release the person who had slaughtered my loved ones.

So I publicly fought any change in the sentence.  I told myself that fight was not just for my family, but for other family members of loved ones murdered by juveniles who would be affected.  I was like Saul early in the Book of Acts, the righteous one with a zeal for justice, before he was struck down and humbled and given a new name: Paul.

Then, I repented.

My road to Damascus moment didn’t come in a blinding light or a voice from heaven. The voice that changed my heart was that of a Mississippi-born, Vietnam veteran, Yale-educated  Southern Baptist pastor and academic named Randall O’Brien.

O’Brien told me something true - that Nancy’s killer and I are both children of God, equally beloved and equally fallen. O’Brien reminded me of Jesus’ example on the cross of what to do with those who have harmed us: pray for them.

I had never prayed for the person who killed my loved ones; I had never even uttered his name.

I say it now: David Biro. I began praying for him in the only place I could: the garden where Nancy and Richard and their baby are buried. I dropped to my knees and asked God for something I never could have imagined, that Nancy’s killer get well enough to get out someday.

I don’t know that he will; he is not there yet.  But I do know that no one, including him, is beyond the forgiveness and redemption and purpose of God.

My two young sons taught me that. We were talking about loving your neighbor as yourself.  Stephen asked, “What about the person who killed Aunt Nancy?”

Brendan replied, “We can’t love what he did. But we have to love him, because God made him for a purpose.”

Brendan is right. God made each of the juveniles serving life sentences for a purpose.  I can no longer support a sentence that says never.

Repenting privately would be cowardice, since my past support for locking up some juveniles forever has been so public.  So when lawmakers in my state of Illinois consider bills next month that would abolish juvenile life sentences, I will be there to speak in favor of the mercy of a second chance.

Dr. Marcus Borg, a biblical and Jesus scholar, notes that the roots of the Greek word for “repentance” mean “to go beyond the mind that you have.”

My mind is changed; my heart is remade, and a new task lies ahead.

- kramsaycnn

Filed under: Belief • Guns • Violence

soundoff (1,981 Responses)
  1. lol??

    Sociopaths are the agnostics and psychopaths are the atheists united in their hatred of the Word of God, but only temporarily. ......"Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."..............."2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:......." An article about a psychopath and it's all about them and their problem with the Creator?

    February 5, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • ¿¿lol

      streeeetch and faaaaail. If it weren't for those early apologists fixing stories of the past, you might be believable.

      February 5, 2013 at 11:35 am |
  2. Reality

    Only for the eyes of Jeanne Bishop:

    1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

    “New Torah For Modern Minds

    Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “
    prob•a•bly
    Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.

    2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

    earlychristianwritings.com/

    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    Current RCC problems:

    Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

    2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

    Current problems:
    Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

    3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

    This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.

    And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

    Current crises:

    The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

    4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

    The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

    Current problems:

    The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.

    5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

    "However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

    Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

    Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

    Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!

    February 4, 2013 at 11:54 pm |
    • John

      Rubbish. Genesis is accurate, and it was credited to Moses. Jesus was accurate in saying Moses and Abraham existed, as well as David. There is a record of a battle from another city's tablet referring to David and their battle with his army. The tombs of Abraham and his clan are in Hebron. The tombs of others are also located in Israel. Atheists try so hard to erase God, I wonder why...

      February 5, 2013 at 2:02 am |
    • Austin

      Rubbish, why would you go to Genesis 10 and read about the Historical account of Nineveh and then assume that moses and abraham are myths when the bible correctly had the city of nineveh from the time of Nimrod. this article and anything protesting Abraham and Moses is criteria for judgment and hell fire.

      Do not mess with Abraham and Moses or you are going down.

      February 5, 2013 at 2:21 am |
    • tallulah13

      John: You can't erase something that is not there. I'm not certain what accounts you are referencing, since you didn't include links, but human history is not proof of supernatural events. There is no proof of any of the supernatural events described in the bible, just as there is no proof for any of the supernatural events described in the Iliad. Humans have worshiped literally thousands of gods, and there is no evidence to support the existence of any of them, even yours.

      Perhaps a better question would be why do religious believers desperately cling to empty promises and threats that are based on ancient mythology?

      February 5, 2013 at 2:32 am |
    • End Religion

      Moses didn't exist. The exodus never happened.
      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3355050,00.html
      http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/chapter12.html
      http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/judaism/TCF2K1C0BPAGF6BVO

      February 5, 2013 at 3:07 am |
    • Science

      Can't you read EVOLUTION IN A TEST TUBE Jan. 30 2013

      News Release

      3-D structure of the evolved enzyme (an RNA ligase), using 10 overlaid snapshots. In the top region, the overlays show the range of bending and folding flexibility in the amino acid chain that forms the molecule. The two gray balls are zinc ions. (University of Minnesota)

      University of Minnesota researchers unveil first artificial enzyme created by evolution in a test tube

      Thanks Doc.

      February 5, 2013 at 5:31 am |
    • Science

      Above post for John and Austin

      February 5, 2013 at 5:55 am |
    • Reality

      Obviously, many here have to contact the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis about their New Torah for Modern Minds as said book's authors have concluded that Abraham and Moses were myths. As was the great flood and the exodus.

      February 5, 2013 at 6:57 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "John" and "Austin", but "Abraham" and "Moses" are elements of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL".

      February 5, 2013 at 7:27 am |
    • lol??

      Poor pitiful Reality sayz in her kweer mission, "...........Bottom line: There are many good ways.........."

      You haven't found one yet.

      February 8, 2013 at 5:05 am |
  3. lol??

    Here's the skinny. The A&A's don't like the idea of judgment from a Holy and Perfect God.

    February 4, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
    • You haven't been skinny since 1985

      February 4, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Holy and Perfect God acts from a position of infinite inequality with us, judges and condemns us, redeems us only if we have faith that he will do so. Is this what you have for us, lol???

      February 4, 2013 at 11:02 pm |
    • John

      I agree

      February 4, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
    • Simran

      What is it with the need of a Holy and Perfect God to create an Unholy and Imperfect World?

      February 4, 2013 at 11:17 pm |
    • lol??

      Simran, I see not one of your pals called you out. Ain't they tolerant?

      February 5, 2013 at 11:35 am |
    • Akira

      Lol??, that's because Simran was talking to YOU.

      February 5, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
  4. ¿¿lol

    For early apologists, one way to make excuses for the gospel stories being copy-cats was to say earlier similar stories were a pre-emptive strike by Satan; another way was to claim the original stories were actually referring to the copy-cat story much later and call these prophesies.

    February 4, 2013 at 10:12 pm |
  5. seriously?

    Prophecies Relating to Christ’s Crucifixion
    1. Sold for Thirty Pieces of Silver
    Prophecy: Zechariah 11:12 And I said to them, “If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!” So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 26:14-15 Then one of the twelve, named Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests, 15 and said, “What are you willing to give me to deliver Him up to you?” And they weighed out to him thirty pieces of silver.

    2. Betrayed By a Friend
    Prophecy: Psalm 55:12-14 For it is not an enemy who reproaches me, Then I could bear it; Nor is it one who hates me who has exalted himself against me, Then I could hide myself from him. 13 But it is you, a man my equal, My companion and my familiar friend. 14 We who had sweet fellowship together, Walked in the house of God in the throng. (See also Psalm 41:9; Zech 13:6).

    Fulfillment: Matthew 26:49-50 And immediately he went to Jesus and said, “Hail, Rabbi!” and kissed Him. 50 And Jesus said to him, “Friend, do what you have come for.” Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and seized Him.

    3. The Money Cast to the Potter
    Prophecy: Zechariah 11:13 Then the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them.” So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 27:5-7 And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself. 6 And the chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, “It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood.” 7 And they counseled together and with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers.

    NOTE: Notice that in both prophecy and fulfillment we find stated that (1) it was silver; (2) there were 30 pieces (Matt. 27:3); (3) they were thrown down; (4) they were cast down in the House of the Lord; and (5) the money was used to purchase the potter’s field.

    4. The Disciples Forsook Him
    Prophecy: Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, And against the man, My Associate," Declares the LORD of hosts. "Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered; And I will turn My hand against the little ones.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 26:56 “But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets may be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left Him and fled. (See also Mark 14:27)

    5. Accused by False Witnesses
    Prophecy: Psalm 35:11 Malicious witnesses rise up; They ask me of things that I do not know.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 26:59-60 Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus, in order that they might put Him to death; and they did not find any, even though many false witnesses came forward. But later on two came forward, . . .

    6. Smitten and Spit Upon
    Prophecy: Isaiah 50:6 I gave My back to those who strike Me, And My cheeks to those who pluck out the beard; I did not cover My face from humiliation and spitting.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 27:30 And they spat on Him, and took the reed and began to beat Him on the head.

    NOTE: Note here the details that correspond in both prophecy and fulfillment (1) He was to be smitten, (2) He was to be smitten on the face (as well as the other parts of the body). See Luke 22:64. (3) He was to be spit upon, and (4) He was to be spitten upon in the face.

    7. Dumb Before His Accusers
    Prophecy: Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 27:12-14 And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He made no answer. Then Pilate said to Him, “Do You not hear how many things they testify against You?” And He did not answer him with regard to even a single charge, so that the governor was quite amazed.

    8. Wounded and Bruised
    Prophecy: Isaiah 53:5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 27:26, 29 Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he delivered Him to be crucified. . . . And after weaving a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand; and they kneeled down before Him and mocked Him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!”

    9. Fell Under the Cross
    Prophecy: Psalm 109:24 My knees are weak from fasting; And my flesh has grown lean, without fatness.

    Fulfillment: John 19:17 They took Jesus therefore, and He went out, bearing His own cross, to the place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha. Luke 23:26 And when they led Him away, they laid hold of one Simon of Cyrene, coming in from the country, and placed on him the cross to carry behind Jesus.

    NOTE: Evidently the Lord was so weak that His knees gave way under the weight of the heavy cross. So they had to put it on another.

    10. Hands and Feet Pierced
    Prophecy: Psalm 22:16 For dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and my feet.

    Fulfillment: Luke 23:33 And when they came to the place called The Skull, there they crucified Him and the criminals, one on the right and the other on the left.

    NOTE: Christ was crucified in the customary Roman manner, the hands and feet being pierced by huge spikes which fastened the body to the wooden cross. See John 20:25-27 “ . . . except I shall see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails . . . Then said He (Jesus) to Thomas, reach hither thy finger and behold My hands,” etc.

    11. Crucified with Thieves
    Prophecy: Isaiah 53:12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.

    Fulfillment: Mark 15:27-28 And they crucified two robbers with Him, one on His right and one on His left. 28 (And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "And He was numbered with transgressors.")

    12. Prayed For His Persecutors
    Prophecy: Isaiah 53:12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors. (emphasis mine)

    Fulfillment: Luke 23:34 But Jesus was saying, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.” And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.

    Here Jesus, as foreseen by Isaiah, “interceded for the transgressors” who nailed him to the cross.

    13. People Shook Their Heads
    Prophecy: Psalm 109:25 I also have become a reproach to them; When they see me, they wag their head.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 27:39 And those passing by were hurling abuse at Him, wagging their heads.

    14. People Ridiculed Him
    Prophecy: Psalm 22:8 “Commit yourself to the LORD; let Him deliver him; Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him.”

    Fulfillment: Matthew 27:41-43 In the same way the chief priests also, along with the scribes and elders, were mocking Him, and saying, 42 “He saved others; He cannot save Himself. He is the King of Israel; let Him now come down from the cross, and we shall believe in Him. 43 “He trusts in God; let Him deliver Him now, if He takes pleasure in Him; for He said, ‘I am the Son of God.’”

    15. People Astonished
    Prophecy: Psalm 22:17 I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me;

    Fulfillment: Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.”

    16. Garments Parted and Lots Cast
    Prophecy: Psalm 22:18 They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots.

    Fulfillment: John 19:23-24 The soldiers therefore, when they had crucified Jesus, took His outer garments and made four parts, a part to every soldier and also the tunic; now the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece. 24 They said therefore to one another, “Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, to decide whose it shall be”; that the Scripture might be fulfilled, “They divided My outer garments among them, and for My clothing they cast lots.”

    NOTE: How exact the inspired prophecy! The garments were to be parted among them, but the vesture was to be awarded to one by lots. These were statements that would appear almost contradictory unless explained by the record of the scene at the cross.

    17. His Forsaken Cry
    Prophecy: Psalm 22:1 For the choir director; upon Aijeleth Hashshahar. A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “ Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? “that is, “ My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me ?”

    18. Gall and Vinegar Given Him
    Prophecy: Psalm 69:21 They also gave me gall for my food, And for my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

    Fulfillment: John 19:28-29 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, in order that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I am thirsty.” 29 A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop, and brought it up to His mouth.

    19. Committed Himself to God
    Prophecy: Psalm 31:5 Into Thy hand I commit my spirit; Thou hast ransomed me, O LORD, God of truth.

    Fulfillment: Luke 23:46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Thy hands I commit My spirit.” And having said this, He breathed His last.

    20. Friends Stood Afar Off
    Prophecy: Psalm 38:11 My loved ones and my friends stand aloof from my plague; And my kinsmen stand afar off.

    Fulfillment: Luke 23:49 And all His acquaintances and the women who accompanied Him from Galilee, were standing at a distance, seeing these things.

    21. Bones Not Broken
    Prophecy: Psalm 34:20 He keeps all his bones; Not one of them is broken.

    Fulfillment: John 19:33, 36 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs; . . . 36 For these things came to pass, that the Scripture might be fulfilled,” Not a bone of Him shall be broken. “

    NOTE: It is profitable to notice two other prophecies concerning His bones which undoubtedly had an exact fulfillment, although such is not stated in Scripture in so many words. We draw our conclusions from honest inference. (1) Psalm 22:14 “All my bones are out of joint.” Hanging on the cross by the hands and feet would easily disjoint the bones, especially when we remember that the body was fixed to the frame while lying on the ground. (2) Psalm 22:17 “I may tell all My bones.” He was left hanging on the cross naked (John 19:23) and all His bones could thus easily be seen. The extension of the body and the wasting pangs of crucifixion would make the bones more prominent than usual.

    22. Heart Broken
    Prophecy: Psalm 22:14 I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It is melted within me.

    Fulfillment: John 19:34 but one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water.

    NOTE: The blood and water running out of the pierced side presented an evidence that the heart had literally burst.

    23. His Side Pierced
    Prophecy: Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him, like the bitter weeping over a first-born.

    Fulfillment: John 19:34-37 but one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water. 35 And he who has seen has borne witness, and his witness is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe. 36 For these things came to pass, that the Scripture might be fulfilled,” Not a bone of Him shall be broken. “ 37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”

    24. Darkness Over the Land
    Prophecy: Amos 8:9 “And it will come about in that day,” declares the Lord GOD, “That I shall make the sun go down at noon And make the earth dark in broad daylight.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

    NOTE: The Jews reckoned twelve hours from sunrise to sunset. This would make the sixth hour about noon, and the ninth hour near three o’clock.

    25. Buried in a Rich Man’s Tomb
    Prophecy: Isaiah 53:9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 27:57-60 And when it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be given over to him. 59 And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock; and he rolled a large stone against the entrance of the tomb and went away.

    Old Testament Prophecies
    Relating to the Person of Christ
    1. His first Advent
    The Fact: Gen. 3:15; Deut. 18:15; Psa. 89:20; Isa. 2:2; 28:16; 32:1; 35:4; 42:6; 49:1; 55:4; Ezek. 34:24; Dan. 2:44; Micah 4:1; Zech 3:8.

    The Time: Gen. 49:10; Num. 24:17; Dan. 9:24; Mal. 3:1.

    His Divinity: Psa. 2:7, 11; 45: 6-7, 11; 72:8; 102:24-27; 89:26-27; 110:1; Isa. 9:6; 25:9; 40:10; Jer. 23:6; Micah 5:2; Mal 8:1.

    Human Generation: Gen. 12:3; 18:18; 21:12; 22:18; 26:4; 28:14; 49:10; 2 Sam. 7:14; Psa. 18:4-6; 50:22-23; 89:4, 29-30; 132:11; Isa. 11:1; Jer. 23:5; 33:15.

    2. His Forerunner
    Isa. 40:3; Mal. 3:1; 4:5.

    3. His Nativity and Early Years
    The Fact: Gen. 3:15; Isa. 7:14; Jer 31:22

    The Place: Num. 24:17, 19; Micah 5:2

    Adoration by Magi: Psalm 72:10, 15; Isa. 60:3, 6

    Descent into Egypt: Hosea 11:1

    Massacre of Innocents: Jer 31:15

    4. His Mission and Office
    Mission: Gen. 12:3; 49:10; Num. 24:19; Deut. 19:18; Psa. 21:1; Isa. 59:20; Jer. 33:16

    Priest Like Melchizedek: Psalm 110:4

    Prophet Like Moses: Deut. 18:15

    Conversion of Gentiles: Isa. 11:10; Deut. 32:43; Psa. 18:49; 19:4; 117:1; Isa. 42:1; 45:23; 49:6; Hosea 1:10; 2:23; Joel 2:32.

    Ministry in Galilee: Isa. 9:1-2

    Miracles: Isa. 35:5-6; 42:7; 53:4

    Spiritual Graces: Psa. 45:7; Isa. 11:2; 42:1; 53:9; 61:1-2

    Preaching: Psa. 2:7; 78:2; Isa. 2:3; 61:1; Micah 4:2

    Purification of Temple: Psa. 69:9

    5. His Purpose
    Rejection by Jews and Gentiles: Psa. 2:1; 22:12; 41:5; 56:5; 69:8; 118:22-23; Isa. 6:9-10; 8:14; 29:13; 53:1; 65:2

    Persecution: Psa. 22:6; 35:7, 12; 56:5; 71:10; 109:2; Isa. 49:7; 53:3

    Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem: Psa. 8:2; 118:25-26; Zech. 9:9

    Betrayal by Own Friend: Psa. 41:9; 55:13; Zech 13:6

    Betrayal for Thirty Pieces: Zech. 11:12

    Betrayer’s Death: Psa. 55:15, 23; 109:17

    Purchase of Potter’s Field: Zech 11:13

    Desertion by Disciples: Zech 13:7

    False Accusation: Psa. 27:12; 35:11; 109:2; Psa. 2:1-2

    Silence Under Accusation: Psa. 38:13; Isa. 53:7

    Mocking: Psalm 22:7-8, 16; 109:25

    Insult, Buffeting, Spitting, Scourging: Psa. 35:15-, 21; Isa. 50:6

    Patience Under Suffering: Isa. 53:7-9

    Crucifixion: Psa. 22:14, 17

    Offer of Gall and Vinegar: Psa. 69:21

    Prayer for Enemies: Psa. 109:4

    Cries Upon the Cross: Psa. 22:1; 31:5

    Death in Prime of Life: Psa. 89:45; 102:24

    Death with Malefactors: Isaiah 53:9, 12

    Death Attested by Convulsions of Nature: Amos 5:20; Zech 14:4-6

    Casting Lots for Vesture: Psa. 22:18

    Bones not to be Broken: Psa. 34:20

    Piercing: Psa. 22:16; Zech 12:10; 13:6

    Voluntary Death: Psa. 40:6-8

    Vicarious Suffering: Isa. 53:4-6, 12; Dan 9:26

    Burial with the Rich: Isa. 53:9

    6. His Resurrection
    Psalm 16:8-10; 30:3; 41:10; 118:17; Hosea 6:2

    7. His Ascension
    Psalm 16:11; 24:7; 68:18; 110:1; 118:19

    8. His Second Advent
    Psalm 50:3-6; Isa. 9:6-7; 66:18; Dan 7:13-14; Zech. 12:10; 14:4-8.

    February 4, 2013 at 9:13 pm |
    • Lol, wut?

      Using the Bible to prove events in the Bible is called circular reasoning. Prove any of this happened, without using the Bible as your source...lol, wut?

      February 4, 2013 at 9:45 pm |
    • Austin

      right the crucifixion of Christ was a planned fulfilled event that was allready foretold of in Isaiah 53 and fulfilled becasue it was God's will. but it isnt fake.. It all really happened. it was foretold and foreshadowed through the entire bible from Adam, to Abraham and the sacrifice of his son and the lord provided a ram instead, to moses and passover and the festivals, all through the prophets major and minor prophets. it was foretold and fulfilled . that is circular logic, but it is also the will of God and a divine miracle.

      February 4, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @austin

      As I pointed out.

      "And what about Isaiah 53? Something interesting that I do notice is the rest of Isaiah is written as most prophecies are (that being with a lot of "this will happen, that will happen", and in Isaiah 53 it switches completely to "this has happened and that has happened". This reads more of a reprimand than a prophecy."

      February 4, 2013 at 9:53 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      I prophesied that I would eat lunch today and guess what, I ate lunch! I must be god incarnate. Please post your bank account details since I will need to deduct 10% of your monthly earnings as ti-the because I am your god

      February 4, 2013 at 9:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      The Gospels were clearly written by people with a keen knowledge of prophecy. They, and possibly even Jesus himself, worked hard with this knowledge to make Jesus out to be the messiah. People skip over the difficult parts of the prophecies, the ones that don't fit. For example Isaiah 53, "the Gospel of Isaiah":

      Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
      and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
      he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
      and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

      Did the Jesus of Christians have a prolonged life and live to see his offspring? That part is ignored because the rest sounds so much like him. And no, the offspring are not the believers.

      February 4, 2013 at 9:59 pm |
    • Austin

      hahahaha good one!

      the problem is that the prophecies and the fulfillment were divine and miraculous in fulfillment, and genius and sovereign, and the blood ato

      11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life

      February 4, 2013 at 10:01 pm |
    • Austin

      wrong the offspring is the seed of Abraham, and then moses and the festival of firstfruits was the foreshadow of the day of resurrection. and Jesus is the firsfruit of the spirit, and the fulfillment of the blood covenant that is the first fruit, the seed of life. that is the offspring being talked about. there are tons of "firstfruits" verses in the new testament.

      February 4, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
    • John

      The children of God are those that believe Jesus, and Jesus did prolong his days in raising from the dead.

      February 4, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
    • Austin

      that is clearly the believers being talked about if you read the rest, it says he will pour out his soul unto death. there was never going to be a physical offspring for Christ. of course that is talking about believers bud. and he sums it up "my kingdom is not an earthly kingdom or i would fight" during his trial.

      February 4, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Not so, Jesus never spoke of believers as his offspring. The relationships he described were quite different.

      Paul: For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

      Jesus: Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”

      February 4, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
    • John

      You need to realize it depends on the translation. The word translated to "offspring" is "seed" in the King James AV. Jesus spoke of the seed being God's word, Jesus, starting out small as just the apostles believing him, and later becoming huge over time, like a mustard seed starting out small and becoming a huge tree later. Jesus saw his "seed", the sons of God, or children of God that originally followed him then, and knew what it would grow into later, now. Jesus prolonged his days in raising from the dead on the 3rd day. You'll deny all that of course.

      February 4, 2013 at 10:38 pm |
    • End Religion

      The sheer stupidity of nutters is staggering sometimes... How do they function in society?

      February 4, 2013 at 10:40 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      wow... a bunch of bible verses.. It's like going to church without the hot, conservative girls.

      February 4, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      You stretched and spun things so well I couldn't have illustrated Christian pretzel log any better, John

      February 4, 2013 at 10:46 pm |
    • John

      That's the beauty of how it's set up Tom, you got exactly what you wanted, and so did I. I got to know the most incredible being in the entire universe, and you in not wanting to know him, never found him. The stuff the apostles described... was real... and so is God. But you don't want to know that, so it's left to you, to never believe what I'm telling you, nor what they told you... the same thing happening, in neither instance, will you figure it out. It's like a room full of treasure that you and quite a few others, never bother to open the door to... and you think it's right to walk right by and walk off smirking at anyone going in.

      February 4, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
    • Bet

      I don't know who to credit with this, but it seems apropos:

      Evangelical Rule of Thumb:

      If a bible verse furthers the cause, it is to be taken literally.

      If a bible verse is detrimental to the cause, it is either: taken out of context; is allegorical; refers to another verse somewhere else; is an ancient cultural anomaly; is a translation or copyist's error; means something other than what it actually says; Is a mystery of god or not discernible by humans; or is just plain magic.

      February 4, 2013 at 11:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Sorry, John. That's Christian pretzel logic. I just noticed the typo.

      February 4, 2013 at 11:05 pm |
    • End Religion

      Personally I find "Christian pretzel logs" more appealing and honest than religion in general, especially at Christmas time. They are certainly less insane than the average nutter.

      February 4, 2013 at 11:17 pm |
    • Austin

      tom tom, your arguement about the offspring of christ is so unbiblicaly sound that it is not worth the fifty cross refrence verses on the sons of god, the firstfruits, the tree of life, seed of abraham, the brance, the vine, the seed of life, its not even up for discussion what the offspring refers to.
      That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

      0 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

      11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

      12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

      February 4, 2013 at 11:27 pm |
    • Pete

      seriously?
      Did Jesus build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28), gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6), usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4). Did he spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9)?

      No? Well he wasn't the expected messiah then, was he? Even with the scriptures right before them to craft a story where Jesus fulfills prophecy the Gospel writers could not fake these things.

      February 4, 2013 at 11:57 pm |
    • Kev

      4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

      5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

      6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

      7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

      Galatians 4:4-7 KJV

      February 5, 2013 at 12:22 am |
    • Kev

      16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

      17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

      18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

      2 Corinthians 6:16-18 KJV

      February 5, 2013 at 12:36 am |
  6. frank

    I didn't read the article. Is it about a country song? Not my cup of tea really.

    February 4, 2013 at 8:38 pm |
  7. Gus

    Nothing quite as effective as religion to turn your brain into mush.

    February 4, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
  8. Sane Person

    This kid murdered your sister, her husband and their baby in cold blood, for no reason, and now you are praying for him and wishing him well? Wow. Religion makes people act pretty damn stupid. Why don't you pray for Hitler while you're at it?

    February 4, 2013 at 8:01 pm |
    • John

      She's hopeful that he would eventually regret his actions that day, and wish he'd never had anything to do with it. That's between God and him what he thinks about it, and whether or not he finds God and is forgiven through Jesus's sacrifice.

      February 4, 2013 at 8:20 pm |
    • Sane Person

      The kid is a psychopath and no ancient middle eastern man named "Jesus" is going to change that. Grow up and face reality.

      February 4, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
    • John

      SP, the reality is that God exists. At some point in the future, you will be faced with that reality. Best would be to find God before then.

      February 4, 2013 at 8:37 pm |
    • Sane Person

      That is not reality, that is a mass delusion. There is nothing supporting the existence of god except for very old story books. Let me make it easy for you – think of the reasons why you don't believe in all the OTHER gods, and that is why I don't believe in yours.

      February 4, 2013 at 8:46 pm |
    • Simran

      I get this woman's need to forgive the perpetrator, so as to be able to move on in her own life. You have to let go in order to do that. The praying and fighting for his pardon -well, that would be just insane. Unless someone figures out how to treat people with psychopathic tendencies, especially ones who have alreadu commited heinous crimes, they should not be out in the society.

      February 4, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
  9. John

    I agree with the author in forgiving him, this will remove most of the daily pain she'd feel if she didn't let it go.

    A warm hello to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and big thank you for sending Jesus to die for our sins.

    February 4, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
    • End Religion

      Who let Li'l Johnny 3rd Grader post on here again?

      February 4, 2013 at 6:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Greetings from the God of Vlad III, Mussolini, Ted Bundy and you John.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      "sending Jesus to die for our sins."

      Take your ghoulish religion and shove it.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
  10. truth be told

    I am a complete moron

    February 4, 2013 at 6:16 pm |
    • Bob

      True, you are.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
    • truth be turd

      Stop stealing my name.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • truth be told

      More proof as to the lying thieving nature of the so called atheist. Unable to deal with Truth the self deceived atheist will do foolish and desperate things like steal a name on an anonymous blog to hide their sin. To no avail all morally decent peoples everywhere already know so called atheists are liars.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
    • truth be told

      And, I like turtles.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
    • truth be turd

      It is interesting that when ever a so called turtle is exposed to the undeniable Truth of its swim back to the Archipelagos from the Ark it will do two things. One is to swim and hide by stealing a name in the foolish hope of discrediting the Truth. The other is to deny the Truth the right of free algae and seagrass. The one thing a self deceived turtle cannot do is repent and become an asset to society.

      February 4, 2013 at 11:11 pm |
  11. Bill Deacon

    Her Christianity rightly compels her to forgiveness. This is not unique, religious people often forgive perpetrators of crimes against them. The state has a twofold responsibility; first to the protection of the rest of society and secondly to the rehabilitation of the criminal. So, just because she is personally willing to forgive, thus releasing herself from hatred, that does not make his release back into society an imperative.

    February 4, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • Bob

      Bill Dumbkin, actually your nasty bible demands much worse from you than "forgiveness". Horrors like these, for example. No wonder Christians are disproportionately criminals:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      February 4, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
    • lol??

      "Mat 5:8 Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God."

      February 4, 2013 at 6:57 pm |
    • Akira

      Turd be told: according to many, if they have been 'saved', no matter what heinous thing they have done or continue to do, if they ask Jesus for forgiveness, yes.
      The thought is that any actions are trumped by being saved. In other words, you can be the best, loving, charitable person on the face of the earth, and if you haven't been 'saved', you don't go to heaven.
      If, on the other hand, you are a murderer, get saved in prison, ask forgiveness, rape another prisoner, ask forgiveness, stab an inmate, ask forgiveness, it's all good, because one's acts are rendered moot once you've been saved. And one can continue to use the saved safety net to continue being an asshole. Alllllll forgiven.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
    • Austin

      Akira, pleas dont confuse adolf Hitler with christianity. this is not cool....

      it specifically says and is beyond obvious...........and yes of course there are hippocrates

      "shall we keep on sinning that grace may abound all the more? May it never be" Its in the book Romans. 4 gospels, then the history of the early church in Acts, the Romans the book on sin and grace. look people like to point out the worst Christians and pin the tail on the donkey. hitler crusaders molesting priests....this is the devil.

      Do you understand? my church is full of fantastic and moral loving people. i go to 3 churches. 1 in 3,000 people act like this at the evangelical or non denominational fundamentalist church...We are a loving charitable and outreaching group of people. we dont take advantage of grace so we have an excuse to screw people over.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:55 pm |
    • Akira

      Austin, where did I say anything about Adolph Hitler at all? I didn't. Not cool.
      That would be your fellow proselytizer, 'truth be told' who brought up Hitler.
      And, what I spoke about was directly from a Baptist Minister's, and his family's mouth. Proving that even the representatives of God cannot agree.
      Do you understand?

      February 4, 2013 at 8:03 pm |
  12. December

    I admire her willingness to forgive, must be hard.

    But, let him receive her forgiveness while serving his life in prison. Maybe he can have a 'coming to Jesus' moment and help other inmates.

    When you take a life, there is not way to make total amends.

    February 4, 2013 at 5:18 pm |
    • Chuckles

      How do you know? I thought only god knew?

      Weird, so you can judge when you want to but when asked by others you throw your hands in the air and say god can only do it?

      Interesting.....

      February 4, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • December

      May God have mercy on me if I have made a mistake.

      I do make a lot of them.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:23 pm |
    • Chuckles

      How is there no way to make total amends?

      February 4, 2013 at 5:27 pm |
    • ME II

      "total amends" = return victim to life (I think is what was meant)

      February 4, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • December

      Yea, he can't bring back the man, woman and unborn child.

      He can attempt amends to their loved ones and others they harmed. And they can accept them.

      But I don't think he can totally fix the wrong he has done.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @ME II

      That doesn't make sense, are you saying the only way to make complete amends for any action you have to reverse the action itself?

      February 4, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • December

      others *he* harmed

      February 4, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • Chuckles

      I'm also a little confused because this whole article is about her forgiving this guy and as December as pointed out a lot, god loves everyone, so how is it that this guy can't make complete amends?

      You shouldn't mess with absolutes.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chuckles,
      I can't speak for December, but I suspect s/he is going for the idea that once someone is gone you can't replace them nor compensate for their lose, i.e. make "total" amends. At least that's the way I read it.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
    • ME II

      oops "lose" should be "loss"

      February 4, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • Bob

      December, a "coming to Jesus" appears to do more harm than good as far as inmates go. Keep in mind that an excessive percentage of inmates are already Christian, more than in the general population. And greater than 0% is too many.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:48 pm |
    • December

      God can still love him. But he allows the consequences of our bad actions play out. That is part of free will.

      If he commits a crime he still has to do the time.

      Some people make amends (like admit to a crime they committed) and then end up serving jail time.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • December

      >> December, a "coming to Jesus" appears to do more harm than good as far as inmates go. Keep in mind that an excessive percentage of inmates are already Christian, more than in the general population. And greater than 0% is too many.

      True. Christians commit crimes just like everyone else.

      Some people have spiritual awakenings in prison and turn their lives around. For me a "coming to Jesus" moment is deciding to do as he would have us do. Turning the other cheek, walking the extra mile and extending love to an outsider.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @ME II

      I get that, but it still doesn't make sense to me, I've had my only issues with dealing of a murder of my own to a certain extent and you are right that there is no way to bring that person back to life, but what good is offereing even a little bit of forgiveness and moving forward if you hold a grudge? Is it really forgiveness if you never forgive?

      February 4, 2013 at 5:56 pm |
    • Bob

      December, the point that escaped you is that Christians commit crimes in greater number and out of proportion to their fraction of the general population. The ones in prison re-offend at essentially the same rate.

      Regardless, even if the rate was lower (it isn't), your religion is still a giant ponzi scheme, with no evidence to support its claims and much counter-evidence. And its core premise regarding the sacrifice of Jesus is rubbish. We've already been over this. Do try to keep up.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
    • December

      Bob

      I follow Jesus Christ, not other Christians.

      I really haven't done studies on our prison systems, but I do know a lot of people go to jail due to drugs. And there are also a lot of minorities in prison. I also think I've heard that economic background has a lot to do with a person's chance of going to prison.

      But all of these inmates are God's children. He asks us to love them, too.

      I believe if more people tried to do what Jesus asked us to, things would be better. I know they are for me.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • Bob

      December, your god of your Jesus ponzi scheme actually demands that you do some pretty nasty stuff. Maybe you should actually read your horrid Christian users manual AKA the bible. A few quotes showing the violence and other horrors commonly demanded of you in both testaments by your supposed "god":

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      February 4, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • Pete

      December
      The writers of the New Testament were fellow Christians. So, if you follow that book at all, then you are following other Christians, right?

      February 4, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • December

      Bob –

      If it is a ponzi scheme, my church is failing horribly at it.

      We actually do read the Bible. And have addressed the verses you name.

      We definitely are not afraid of them. Or worried when somebody quotes them to us out of context and with little understanding.

      >> Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      The Bible does not ask me to follow Mosaic Law.

      And I don't worship the Bible. It is not my idol. I follow Jesus Christ.

      Jesus "did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it". That means that we now follow the New Testament teachings of Jesus.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @December

      So your "unchanging god" changed his mind on which laws to follow.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:36 pm |
    • truth be turd

      Duhcember: do all murderers in prison who spread the word of jesus to others in prison then go to heaven?

      February 4, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chuckles,
      Ah, I think I finally get your point (bit slow today apparently).
      If one forgives, no amends are necessary?

      February 4, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • December

      > So your "unchanging god" changed his mind on which laws to follow.

      I would say no. Times change. People change. How God interacts with us changes.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
    • fred

      December
      I agree with you as man is limited. On other hand the good news is that with God all things are possible. I believe in the attributes of God as revealed in the Bible and to me personally through the Holy Spirit. The Bible is the Word of God and the Chosen Ones were charged with bringing forward the knowledge of the law of the Prophets. If something does not fit with what is clear in the Bible it typically is not of God.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:48 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @December

      So standard apologetics. Got it. You might just save time by copying and pasting

      "Insert standard apologetic bullshit here."

      February 4, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
    • Bob

      December, what you have really just shown is how much of a ponzi scheme your religion is.

      Now, read what I posted and try to respond with some substance this time, for a change. Note especially that you cannot deny that those verses are there. And note especially the comments afterward re interpretation. If you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it.

      Furthermore, why hasn't there been a peep from your sky fairy for >2K years? That fact alone justifies reasonable doubt. Why can't your god get with the last decade and produce its own website (no, religious shill sites don't count), or even push some tweets out? Even a child can do that.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      February 4, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @ME II

      I think that depends on the person. What would the "amends" be exactly in that kind of situation? I think after you grant forgiveness, amends aren't necessariy, amends are before forgiveness (I don't think I've ever used the word "amends so much). The whole point is December pretty much says that no matter what this guy does, he will never be totally forgiven, I disagree.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
    • December

      >> So standard apologetics. Got it. You might just save time by copying and pasting

      I thought about it, especially after Bob posted his "standard misunderstandings of Christianity that he thinks no person who trusts in God has never thought of before"

      Standard disbelief misunderstandings.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:51 pm |
    • fred

      Chuckles
      Absolutes are only possible if there is God otherwise it is all relative. Just as with the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil you cannot un-know what you now know. This is why we continue on in this fallen state.

      I am not aware of any instance in the Bible where God played back the clock for man in order to allow a do over or TVO moment. The Bible reflects patterns and this is a clear pattern. When you take a life or any action for that matter the effects or affect continues until acted upon again. It is sequential.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:59 pm |
    • December

      >> Note especially that you cannot deny that those verses are there. And note especially the comments afterward re interpretation. If you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it.

      I didn't deny that those verses are there. I discuss them with other people. Some are difficult to understand.

      The book is not the only thing God has given us.

      Do you ever hear about people talking about having a relatinship with God?

      We can communicate with God today. Through prayer and meditation. I would suggest attempting to humble yourself first. I get on my knees and admit to God where I am weak. He does communicate with me.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @fred

      That's why I said dealing in absolutes was dangerous, because I personally believe when it comes to morals, or intangible abstracts, you can't deal in absolutes.

      The rest of your post is bullsh.it

      February 4, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • December

      >> Chuckles

      >> The whole point is December pretty much says that no matter what this guy does, he will never be totally forgiven, I disagree.

      Wrong.

      I said a person can give their forgiveness to him.

      I said when you murder, you can not bring that person back.

      If I steal your car, I can return your car or buy you a similar or better car.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:07 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @December

      And yet you don't actually address any of those points do you? You merely say
      "My church says there's answers, so there's answers. I know those answers, so there."
      Yet you give no answers. And I would bet everything I own I know exactly the answers you'd give for all of those points because *gasp* It's "standard apologetics" and doesn't actually give any answers to the points.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
    • fred

      December
      Christ atonement for sin on the cross was for all who believed upon His name. The sin is forgiven and you free of it in Christ. This is because God has promised to create and new heaven and a new earth where God will wipe away every tear. If the victims and perpetrator both end up in the Kingdom of God regardless of cause all events will have come together for the good of those who believed in Christ. In this regard we have something better than complete amends.

      Outside of this Kingdom of God complete amends would not be possible.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:10 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Yes, just pile on more unjustified assertions. I'm sure no one will notice.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:11 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Wait, are you still operating under the assumption that the bible is true and reliable because it makes no sense whatsoever?
      Or is it logical and verifiable this time?

      February 4, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
    • December

      Oh, Bob is just copying and pasting his standard relies.

      Great.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
    • December

      >> hawaiiguest

      I'm giving general answers. I don't have time to address all his points.

      And he is clearly copying and pasting standard things he has been working on for a long time.

      A long, long time. Posting the same things over and over.

      What a great life to have the time for that.

      I'm not working on a theological doctorate that I don't give a *&(* about.

      I'm not establishing an 'internet persona' that proves how smarter and more reasonable that everyone else I am.

      Just trying to share Christ's love.

      I've received it and living my life in response to it.

      Now how do I prove that my church is not a ponzi scheme?

      February 4, 2013 at 7:20 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @December

      What denomination are you in.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:40 pm |
    • December

      Presbcatothedisturan: Reformed evangalical eastern orthodox (US).

      February 4, 2013 at 8:06 pm |
    • Akira

      "Presbcatothedisturan: Reformed evangalical eastern orthodox (US)." So obscure, not even Google's heard of it. And I c/p it exactly.

      February 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm |
    • December

      I tried to include everyone.

      February 4, 2013 at 10:26 pm |
    • Akira

      Then the honest answer would have been "none" or "all".

      February 4, 2013 at 11:09 pm |
    • End Religion

      Practicing deceit is a "coming to Jesus moment" for December.

      February 4, 2013 at 11:20 pm |
    • Bob

      December apparently lacks the fortitude and the courage to tackle directly the problems with her religion that she has been very explicitly presented with, or to admit that she can't. A fairly typical Christian coward.

      Sure, hide in the general dogma, December, but don't expect reasonable people to go along with your god fraud. You spineless coward.

      February 5, 2013 at 12:04 am |
    • December

      Yea, I'm a work in progress.

      February 5, 2013 at 1:08 am |
  13. truth be told

    All so called atheists are liars. A simple Truth to view ALL so called atheist comments through. Did a self deceived atheist say it... it's a lie.

    February 4, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • Troll Hunter

      All so called trolls are liars. A simple Truth to view ALL so called troll comments through. Did a self deceived troll say it... it's a lie.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • truth be told

      All so called pandas are liars. A simple Truth to view ALL so called panda comments through. Did a self deceived panda say it... it's a lie.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • truth be told

      All so called liars are liars. A simple Truth to view ALL so called liar comments through. Did a self deceived liar say it... it's a lie.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • truth be told

      It is interesting that when ever a so called atheist is exposed to the undeniable Truth it will do two things. One is to run and hide by stealing a name in the foolish hope of discrediting the Truth. The other is to deny the Truth the right of free speech. The one thing a self deceived atheist cannot do is repent and become an asset to society.

      February 4, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Do take a day off. It must be hard being so foolish in the face of all that evidence. What do you think your god would make of your idiotic postings?

      February 4, 2013 at 6:05 pm |
    • truth be told

      It is interesting that when ever tbt is exposed to the undeniable Truth it will do two things. One is to run and hide by stealing a name in the foolish hope of discrediting the Truth. The other is to deny the Truth the right of free speech. The one thing a self deceived tbt cannot do is repent and become an asset to society.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • Pete

      truth be told
      Why are we supposedly "so called atheists"? We don't believe in God any more than you believe in Zeus. That makes us both atheists, to a certain degree. You're just being only 99.99% pure atheist to my 100%. Not a very big distinction, is it?

      February 4, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
    • truth be turd

      Im sorry I keep dropping my turds all over the blog.Please excuse me.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:39 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      You probably deal with atheists each and every day – they are your neighbors, on the police force, in the army, and believe it or not probably sitting next to you in church. Religion has such a powerful cultural impact, that most atheists just go along and pretend for the sake of not upsetting people. When you vent your unwarranted rage against atheists, eventually even the closeted atheists are going to step forward and call you out on your twisted views. I have been an atheist since I was a child, and yet I have NEVER struck another person in anger, committed a crime more serious than speeding, and am one of the most generous people you would ever meet. This is a secular country, and our const.itution guarantees that. If you don't like it, you have the right to pack up your stuff and leave (because this IS a free country). The first amendment is only not there to give you the right to worship as you please, it is there to give the rest of us the right to tell you to shove it.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:51 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      I have an idea for the next "Epic Rap Battle" video –

      "Truth be told" vs. "Captain America" – Who's the biggest hater?

      YOU DECIDE!

      February 4, 2013 at 7:54 pm |
    • truth be told

      Actually it is a lie to suppose that so called atheists are all around us. The so called atheist is an extreme and foolish minority. If I can find one I'll be sure to let you know. More positive proof that all atheists are liars.

      February 4, 2013 at 9:34 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @truth be told
      "The so called atheist is an extreme and foolish minority."

      Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
      Matthew 7:14

      February 4, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
  14. PumpNDump

    If we're lucky someone made him a punk in prison and will stick him like a human pincushion with a shiv.

    February 4, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
  15. lol??

    "Their killer was four weeks shy of his 17th birthday, at which point he would be tried as an adult for all crimes in Illinois. He was certified and tried as an adult, and duly sentenced to three life without parole sentences that he is currently serving in the Illinois Department of Corrections. The killer did not act on impulse. He was not acting under peer pressure. He knew it was completely illegal and horrifically evil. He was not on drugs. He was not mentally ill or deficient in any way. He reported doing it later for the “thrill of it”. He attempted to murder his own parents prior to killing Nancy and Richard. He threatened a mass murder at a bank after their murders. Only a life sentence interrupted this serial killer in the making. He continues to this day to be an unrepentant and dangerous sociopath. http://www.teenkillers.org/index.php/memorials/illinois-victims/richard-and-nancy-bishop-langert-baby/

    February 4, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
  16. A sane person

    What if this killer gets out and puts down some more of her family members? Will there then be another change of heart?

    February 4, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • New Athiest

      Definately.
      but what if she gets him released, and he kills someone in a different family. Would she be willing to take any responsibility for that?

      February 4, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • The Truth

      According the the religious it would just all be part of God's plan to test the faith of another family. What a sick and demented God.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • Roger that

      ' What a sick and demented God.'

      Yet somehow this is acceptable because who are we humans to question God.

      February 4, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
  17. water and spirit

    22 “Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

    24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. 30 I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. 32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, people of Israel!

    33 “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. 35 They will say, “This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited.” 36 Then the nations around you that remain will know that I the Lord have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I the Lord have spoken, and I will do it.’

    37 “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Once again I will yield to Israel’s plea and do this for them: I will make their people as numerous as sheep, 38 as numerous as the flocks for offerings at Jerusalem during her appointed festivals. So will the ruined cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the Lord.”

    February 4, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • SHrUb....gOd wIlls iT.....

      Still no time line...nailing out the exact time should not be a problem for an Omniscient , Omnipresent God.

      He goes part way and forgets the real details- does god have ADH? cant finish anything to save our lives?:)

      February 4, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • SHrUb....gOd wIlls iT.....

      adhd even...

      February 4, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • Live4HisPenis

      The funny part is that the Israelites themselves claim this prophecy came true two other times, once when they returned from captivity in Babylon and the other when the temple was rebuilt a third time... seem's like those Jew's like to get a lot of mileage out of just one prophecy...

      February 4, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So what if they did? Doesn't mean it's true. And just because you believe it doesn't mean you are correct in doing so.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • SHrUb....gOd wIlls iT.....

      Even with 2k lead time humanity could never make the modern political structure match a biblical prophecy.... but an all encompassing god could pull it off np...so he could put a tme for it all to happen without risk.

      thats my point....

      February 4, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • SHrUb....gOd wIlls iT.....

      The only reason for the Bible being va gue is the same reason psychics are v ague in their details..... its all a scam

      February 4, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
  18. Live4Him

    @New Athiest : Evolution can explain how we came to be. No god necessary.

    Evolution begins with the basic ingredients of Matter, Energy and Time. Without an explanation for these, then evolution cannot stand. Second, evolution is mathematically impossible, given that we do not have 1 centillion+ species identified. (Note: Dawkins theorized 1000-100000 speciation events for the evolution of the eye alone. This would result in a minimum of 1 centillion species.)

    2) Please tell me of one specific prophecy that has been fulfilled. Note the word 'specififc'.

    Ezekiel 37 tells that after a long time (much longer than 200 years) of Israel being a non-nation, Israel would be reborn in the land known as the Promised Land – i.e. Israel today. Israel ceased to be a nation in 73 AD, but was reborn in 1948 inhabiting the traditional territory known as the Promised Land. The customs are the same, the langauge is the same, the territory is the same, etc. No other nation has ever done a similar event.

    February 4, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      You've really gone off the deep end now.

      February 4, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • New Athiest

      Firstly, you are stuck in a mindset where there was nothing, and suddenly your god created everything. This is not science. Matter has been here long befoer the 'Big Bang'. that is just all we have seen so far.

      Secondly, the best you can do is a self fulfilling prophacy? The Jews managed to rename thier Holy land, and you think that devine intervention was necessary??

      February 4, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • SHrUb....gOd wIlls iT.....

      You would have a point IF a hard time line was given.Today I could say "we will return to the Moon- to walk upon it dusty face". Over time it may happen...that doesnt make me a prophet. If i said: "we will return to the Moon- to walk upon it dusty face in 53 years, 3 months, 12 days, 2 hrs from 02/04/13 then you can start a church with me as the Prophet.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • Live4HisPenis

      I just wish would come down out of heaven and do me already!! What is taking so long?!!! I've been praying! I've been good!

      February 4, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • New Athiest

      @SHrUb...
      Still not good enough. What if i start your church, kowing when we need to land on the moon. And with proper planning we do it. That takes planning, but not a god. The jews were trying to reclaim the holy land for a long time.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @New Athiest : Matter has been here long befoer the 'Big Bang'.

      Can you prove this?

      @New Athiest : The Jews managed to rename thier Holy land

      How did the Jews take the land from the British (who won it after WWI)?

      February 4, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • SHrUb....gOd wIlls iT.....

      your are right...i blew the post.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • New Athiest

      @live4him
      1) Yes i can prove matter is here. Here we are!
      There is the Law Of Conservation of Energy thing, but i'm not going to try to teach science in a religious blog. BTW – matter is a form of energy.

      2) The Jews didn't take the land from the British. The UN gave the land to the jews after WWII. FYI – the jews were trying to reclaim the Holy Land by buying it one house at a time before the UN gave it to them. Not that that matters.

      Please provide another prophecy. Surely there are many to choose from ....

      February 4, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Dan

      "Matter has been here long before the 'Big Bang'. Can you prove this?"

      The evidence we now have that shows how empty space is not really empty and the proof of dark matter and the higgs boson particle show that it's very likely that those same conditions existed prior to what we think of as "the big bang". However, since I don't evidence to show this difinitively I can only go so far as to say that is our current understanding and it is not set in stone as religious doctines claims of infallibility.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • SHrUb....gOd wIlls iT.....

      And there is a theory out there that explains the galaxies still accelerating out from the event... multiple collection points.....meaning 'Big Bangs' are a relatively common event in the Cosmic scheme of things.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Pete

      Live4Him
      Goddunit is an answer, one of several thousand coming from equally valid creation stories all the world's religions, but it hasn't been proven to be the correct answer. Are so immature that you would rather have any answer, regardless whether it's true or not, than admit that you simply "don't know, yet" like we atheists are happy to do?

      February 4, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • New Athiest

      It seems Live4Him has run away again. She does that A LOT.
      Don't worry friends, I will pursue her, and save her from her arrogance and ignorance.
      AAaaammmeeennn.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @SHrUb....gOd wIlls iT..... : Today I could say "we will return to the Moon- to walk upon it dusty face".

      This would be an educated guess, rather than a prophecy. You obviously don't know the circumstances surrounding the Eze 37 prophecy. At the time, Israel had just returned from the 70-year Exile. They were diligent in serving God and could see no likelihood of them being destroyed. Yet, this prophecy was foretelling their destruction and, after a long time, would return to their land. So, this much more than an educated guess.

      February 4, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Dan : it's very likely that those same conditions existed prior to what we think of as "the big bang".

      So, you cannot prove it. And, if you DID have evidence, you should bring it to immediate attention of the astrophysics community. So, most of what you've presented is apriori conclusions.

      February 4, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      LIE4him
      It was told it was going to happen.
      Many people believed it would happen, and worked to make it happen.
      This is not a prophecy fulfilled, it is a self fulfilling prophecy, and proves only that if enough men believe something, they will make it happen. No sign of gods or supernatural anything, LIE4him, just people making something happen because they believe they were told to.

      Do you have actual prophecies that were fulfilled not by the hand of man?

      February 4, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • I owe my bookie...

      L4H and yesterday you said take the 49ers and give the points, doofus. Some prophecy.

      February 4, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him,
      "Note: Dawkins theorized 1000-100000 speciation events for the evolution of the eye alone. This would result in a minimum of 1 centillion species"
      Dawkins was talking about changes, not speciation.

      February 4, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
    • Roger that

      Okay the Jews have been given "the promised land" and they are God's chosen people. Why aren't you Jewish? Why the hell are you following around some ghost named Jesus? How can you guys support the Jews and hate the Jews at the same time?

      February 4, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him,
      So, what is the name of their King?

      "One king will rule them all;... (Ez 37:22)

      February 4, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Pete

      Roger that
      They need the Jews to build the new temple and do a few other things so that King Jesus can return and end world democracy. After that, the Jews had better convert, or else.

      Some friends, eh?

      February 4, 2013 at 5:08 pm |
  19. William Demuth

    The killing seems to have another victim, this authors sanity.

    If the parasite becomes free, and kills again, then she will be complicit.

    If the parasite becomes free and reproduces, she will be ten fold complicit.

    Mental case killers can NOT be permitted to breed, or their mental case offspring shall continue the tradition.

    Her imaginary sky fairy is irrelevant.

    February 4, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Chad

      So now you're in the business of deciding who will and wont be allowed to have children??

      February 4, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Chad, I think it would be fair to prohibit people in prison from having children – we already are restricting numerous other standard "rights". However, if we are going to allow conjugal visits enforcing birth control use would be tricky. But cases like Van der Sloot where a conjugal visit led to pregnancy are something I think we would do well to avoid if we can find a way.

      February 4, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      Of all people I would have thought you would be a proponent of not allowing convicts to have children. You've endorsed two-parent households with such alacrity it seems strange that you would also be for the freedom of a dad to have a conjugal visit and not be able to parent because he is an inmate. Even if the father is only in prison for 1-3 years do you tihnk it's fair to impregnate a woman and then allow her to go through the first couple of years of her childs life without a father?

      February 4, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Chad's Mommy

      You probably know that Chad was conceived in a petrie along with several other embryos that were flushed. Ever day I curse the Doctor for picking the embryo that he said was the most viable that turned into Chad.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • Chad

      Not allowing convicts conjugal visits (I dont think they should be allowed) is a different issue than that which William brought up and I objected to.
      If the parasite becomes free and reproduces, she will be ten fold complicit.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Chad,

      OK, a more similar scenario. Do you think a convicted child molester should be allowed to have and/or raise children?

      February 4, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • Chuckles

      But your objection doesn't make sense if you are against conjugal visits. If you are against the idea of deciding who and who will not be able to reproduce, and you think that right should be up to the people who want to reproduce, then you should support the idea of conjugal visits.

      If you think that limiting repoduction on certain individuals in certain circu.mstances, then why would you have an issue with William's original statement? William is merely pointing out that if someone is mentally disturbed enough to plan a murder of a pregnant woman and her husband and gets out, prayer won't stop the murderer from killing again or passing off his genes to other distrubed children.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • Chad's Mommy

      Chad first became obsessed when I told him I was a lesbian and used in viro fertilization to give birth to him. He got it in his head that he was just like jesus because his two mothers were both virgins. Mary and Magie, he rebelled against us and turned into, well you all know.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • Chad

      "Do you think a convicted child molester should be allowed to have and/or raise children?"
      =>yes, they served their time and got out. All convicted child abusers are required by law to register their location. I do not support removal of their reproductive capability.

      I do not support conjugal visits for female inmates because jail is no place to raise a child.
      I do not support conjugal visits for male inmates because it's prison for crying out loud, it isn't supposed to be fun.

      February 4, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Chad, I completely agree with you.

      February 4, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Chad

      well, it was bound to happen sooner or later.. 🙂

      February 4, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Indeed

      February 4, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with you, but your initial commnent still has me confused. Are you against legislating who is and isn't allowed to reproduce and if you are, why are you also against conjugal visits?

      February 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • Chad

      I do not support legislating who is and isn't allowed to reproduce. The one exception being that I do not support conjugal visits which could be characterized as "legislating who is and isn't allowed to reproduce".

      February 4, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Chad, I'm still not certain I understand your position correctly. Do you believe that someone who was convicted of multiple child mol'estation charges and is now out of jail and registered should be allowed to have children in the house with them?

      If the answer is yes, what do you believe is an accurate estimate of recidivism (real and arrest recorded) for repeat se'x offenders?

      Also if yes, and if your answer to the previous estimate is as high as most studies (40-90+%) do you alternately think sentences should be extended?

      These aren't rhetorical...I don't have an answer, though I would not allow a repeat child molester ever to have children in the home. "Served his/her time" does not seem to me a reason for endangering children when the risk is as high as studies indicate (not including chemical castration studies). One's "time" should not simply count as time in jail, but as all associated punishments, restrictions and rehabilitations and be related to the likelihood of reoffending and othe danger to the community. What I don't know is how that balance should be handled.

      February 4, 2013 at 8:48 pm |
    • End Religion

      There will come a time when we no longer get to choose when/if we want to reproduce. We will eventually run out of room. Thankfully none of us will likely be around to have to tackle that issue.

      February 4, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @End Religion –

      Unfortunately we'll run out of food and potable water long before we run out of room and, yes, none of us will likely be around to tackle those issues.

      Cheers

      February 4, 2013 at 11:33 pm |
    • End Religion

      @really: trouble with filter... here's something neat verticalfarm.com
      hydroponic high rise building.

      February 5, 2013 at 12:01 am |
    • End Religion

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xis79alLNhE&w=640&h=360]

      February 5, 2013 at 12:12 am |
  20. some is coming around

    @ end religion...............bro I really am overjoyed to hear you claim that I have lied about the cat. because you know for a fact, that the truth I tell you, is the reality of a demonic power. and so you tell me it is a lie. you have to .

    It is not a lie. dont forget the time I was racked and thought " i wonder if they have the light in their eye" and one of the kids woke up and told me that his dream that night was people were possessed and the only way to tell was to go see if they had the "light in their eye" this kid was not even aware of the scripture talking about that. that is not even mentioning the fact that I was having dreams about scripture that i was going to be reading the next day that i was not familiar with. ......................................I am talking about spirits, that hear your thoughts, and can take your thoughts and speak to you through another persons mouth............this is supernatural, possibly demonic, and also a supernatural sovereign God.

    so you calling me a liar.................................is an incredible start to this whole conversation. I put the facts of what i am telling you on my life, and I will stand for Jesus until the day I die. because I had my eyes opened to spiritual reality, and I still need my savior to sustain my faith because I am pitiful and weak. But God is faithful.

    February 4, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • End Religion

      what a nuisance. No wonder your prison cell mates hated you. It sounds like it is only a matter of time before you end up back there.

      February 4, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • austin

      Job 1:6-12
      New King James Version (NKJV)
      Satan Attacks Job’s Character

      6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[a] also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

      So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

      8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”

      9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”

      12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”

      So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

      February 4, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • End Religion

      have a drink on me, friend.

      February 4, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • Austin

      cheers !

      February 4, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • John

      Only God can know your thoughts, or know the future. See Job, Satan thought he knew what Job would do in the future, but he was wrong and God was right, because only God knew Job's heart, Satan didn't.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @John

      Bullshit. Even within your own mythology it makes no sense. Satan was a fallen angel, created by and in the presence of your god for who knows how long. Would obviously have known the characteristics of the god, and still tried to make a bet. IT. IS. ABSURD. The stupidity in that thought is beyond words. The most clever and devious father of lies and deceit being an inept boob. Yea, makes perfect freaking sense.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • John

      HG, Job is very easy to read, even you can understand it. Satan claimed Job would leave God in the end, but God said Job would not, and after the worst Satan could do, Job still loved God. Satan failed to predict what Job would do, or know Job's heart.

      In Acts 16, the spirit that was supposed to be able to "predict the future", failed to predict that Paul would cast it out, and failed to drive the girl away from Paul before the spirit was cast out of her.

      In Luke 8, the demons in the man failed to predict Jesus showing up and then had to beg Jesus to not torment them. if they had known the future, they could have driving the man off before Jesus got there.

      In all three cases, none of the demons predicted the future accurately. In the one case, Satan himself failed to know Job's heart.

      This is obvious.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @John

      You should try some reading comprehension yourself. You completely missed what I was saying, I'm guess probably on purpose, because it's all absurd bullshit.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:47 pm |
    • John

      HG, it's sad that you don't want to know the most incredible being in existence, or comprehend what that means.

      February 4, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @john

      How about you address the points brought up instead of being a condescending douche. Oh that's right, you can't, that's why you're being a condescending, passive-aggressive tool.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      austin & John,

      There is no evidence that the tale of Job ever really happened. Who was Job... actually? Where did he live? Who wrote the story?

      It is a classic fantasy tale: Once upon a time there was a man (blah blah blah... bad things happened, bad, bad) then (blah blah blah... magical stuff... and finally 'good' prevailed)... and they all lived happily ever after.

      IT IS A FANTASY STORY.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • John

      HG, it was the same thing in heaven, Satan making claims against God, saying Job would leave God if Satan tormented him and his family enough. Here it's much the same, you claim people should reject what God said, and God's word tells me that you're wrong. Different beings involved, but the same end result. In the end though, I know God is right, and you're wrong to deny him. Notice I didn't say "I believe", I said I know. There is a point where people that believe God, end up knowing God, and at that point, they'll love God until death. They know, why would they ever leave God once they know? All the claims you and others will make against God, can not convince me otherwise to reject him. I'll die knowing he's there, and loving him.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:27 pm |
    • John

      AFK, you can make claims against Job, but the text is from God, the end where God speaks up, gives it away who the source was of what was said. That is the one of the most awesome texts, some of the stuff he said makes me cry, it being so incredible. I'd have some pancakes right now if I had any. Luckily I don't have any... I'd gain a lot of weight eating those.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @John

      Yes yes continue to not address any points whatsoever. Why don't you save everyone some time and put a disclaimer at the bottom of all your posts saying:

      WARNING!
      I will not address any questions, or differing opinions. My opinion is henceforth law and indisputable truth because I say so.

      February 4, 2013 at 7:43 pm |
    • John

      HG, I assumed you know about "free will", maybe you don't? What ever, everyone here on earth has God given free will, to do what ever you want, and either do what God said to do, or reject what he said to do, and/or rebel against God. Satan is much like you, you accuse God as being wrong in what he said, yet you are a human being. In heaven, Satan accused God of being wrong in claiming Job would leave God if Satan could do his worst to Job and his family, treat them poorly enough and Satan figured Job would leave God. That was Satan's claim against God, or accusation against God... and Satan was wrong. Much like here, you are accusing God of being wrong, and his witnesses of being wrong... this is why Jesus himself would have claimed you're a son of Satan. You prefer rebellion and accusing God of being wrong, or others if they believe God of being wrong.... that is just like Satan does or did in heaven.

      It is much the same thing. That is why in my standing up for God, I'd be called a son of God, and in you standing up against him, you'd be called a son of Satan. You'll of course deny all the above.... that's what Satan would do. Time is ticking away...

      February 4, 2013 at 8:03 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @John

      So now you're comparing yourself to Jesus, while attempting to insult me with things I don't even believe, and still not addressing any points that were brought up. Isn't it almost time for you to run away while claiming you've addressed the points amazingly?

      February 4, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
    • John

      HG, the bible is a book that is easy to read. Pick up a King James AV at your local mall, $10 probably, and read the New Testament. It's easy to do that, and most of your questions will be answered about God.

      February 4, 2013 at 9:38 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @John

      Read it, still have my bible from when I was a christian, and guess what? It's still all bullshit. Tell me, are you even physically capable of addressing a point?

      February 4, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
    • John

      HG, I completely answered both of the original statements made that I hit the reply link for just now. Your comments I answered too, unless you can point out what "point" didn't get answered, that you're unable to answer for yourself. On the topic of the two points the original reply was to, there are also verses in the Old Testament where God also points out that HE is the only one that knows the future, and HE is the only one that knows someone's heart and mind. I could post verses for those too... but the first 3 examples show it already, demons including Satan can only attempt to influence someone, they can not know what the future outcome will be, nor what someone thinks. Only God knows those things, or who God decides to tell them to... and who God tells them to, are considered to be God's prophets, past, present, and future. God exists through all time, it's up to him when he wants to make himself known, and to who.

      February 4, 2013 at 10:19 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      John,
      "... where God speaks up, gives it away who the source was of what was said."

      Oh really? Like "God" having to ask "Satan" where he'd been? (like "God" wouldn't know?)
      Like "God" shaking those "pillars" under the Earth?
      Like "God" saying that he keeps snow and hail in little 'storehouses' in the clouds?

      Those are give-aways that it is NOT any supernatural being speaking.

      Haven't you ever been stirred to tears when reading any novels, hearing a touching song, seeing a movie or a play? Fiction can be quite emotionally gripping.

      It is no more a god speaking in that story than it is Bambi speaking: "What happened, Mother? Why did we all run?"

      It is a FICTIONAL story, written by some very imaginative and melodramatic Middle Eastern Hebrew men.

      February 4, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.