By Arielle Hawkins, CNN
Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.
From the Blog:
CNN: A killing, a life sentence and my change of heart
Jeanne Bishop is the sister of Nancy Bishop Langert, who, along with her husband and their unborn child, was shot to death by a juvenile. Since the murder of her family members, Jeanne Bishop has been an advocate for gun violence prevention. Through God she learned to forgive her sister's killer, and is now for abolition of the death penalty. Bishop is a criminal defense attorney in Chicago.
CNN: Amid 'storybook' ending, Ray Lewis is still controversial
It's not hard to find Ray Lewis in prayer. You might catch a glimpse of it on the sidelines before a game. In the locker room. Even on the cover of Sports Illustrated – the muscular Baltimore Ravens linebacker standing bare-chested in a swimming pool, his palms pressed together. To some, Lewis' frequent expressions of faith are the marks of a life redeemed, a long 13-year journey from murder accusations – later dropped by prosecutors – in the death of two men hours after the 2000 Super Bowl in Atlanta. But for others, the show of faith is little more than an act.
CNN: Quarterback's next play: Going long with the Bible
Ask Dylan Thompson to name his career highlights, and fans might expect to hear about one of his big moments as South Carolina's backup quarterback – like the time he led the Gamecocks to victory over rival Clemson, or when he threw the game-winning touchdown with 11 seconds left in the Outback Bowl. But while Thompson said he's proud of his team’s accomplishments as well as his own, nothing really compares to what happened to him off the field his freshman year. “Being saved and dedicating my life to Christ is actually the greatest thing that’s ever happened to me,” Thompson said.
CNN: Former Saint and Super Bowl great discusses new book, the big game, father's struggles and God
It was only three years ago that Reis was playing Super Bowl XLIV for the New Orleans Saints. He burst into the national spotlight with one unusual, but game-changing play, an onside kick recovery that surprised the opposition and many say paved the path for the Saints’ 31-17 victory over the Indianapolis Colts. It was an unlikely position for a kid who grew up in a broken family, with a father who was in and out of his life and addicted to sex and alcohol. Reis broke through the obstacles to succeed, he says, in part by finding God in high school.
Tweet of the Day:
[tweet https://twitter.com/HuffPostRelig/status/298234569948278786%5D
Belief on TV:
Photos of the Day:
People attend a ceremony to inaugurate nine new church bells on February 2, 2013 at Notre-Dame de Paris Cathedral in Paris. Hundreds of pupils attend the ceremony during a jubilee.
Cambodians prayed for the late former King Norodom Sihanouk in front of the Royal Palace on Friday, as a sea of mourners filled the streets.
Buddhist monks, nuns and activists attend a protest rally in New Delhi on February 2, 2013. The Tibetan government in exile launched a Solidarity with Tibet Campaign 2013, as Tibetans continue to self-immolate calling for freedom in Tibet.
Palestinian protesters hold flags amid smoke of tear gas during clashes with Israeli soldiers as Palestinians set up a new camp to protest against Jewish settlements near the West Bank village of Burin on February 2, 2013.
Enlightening Reads:
Religion News Service: Vatican shoots down claim that Iran backed John Paul assassination attempt
The Vatican on Friday (Feb. 1) dismissed a claim by the man who tried to kill Pope John Paul II that the assassination attempt had been ordered by Iran’s Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Mehmet Ali Agca makes the claim in his latest autobiography, “Mi avevano promesso il Paradiso,” (“They Promised Me Paradise”) released in Italy on Thursday. Turkish-born Agca shot and wounded John Paul in St. Peter’s Square on May 13, 1981. He was released from prison in 2010.
Tablet Magazine: Ed Koch on His Life and His Judaism
Back in 2011, Andrew Marantz had a fascinating chat with Mayor Ed Koch, who passed away earlier this morning. In it, Koch talked about his love for the New York he ruled over, his love of Israel, and his Judaism. Here’s a small excerpt.
New York Times: Seeing Darwin Through Christian Eyes? It All Depends on the Christian
On Jan. 22, Rush D. Holt, a Democrat who represents central New Jersey’s 12th Congressional District, introduced a resolution designating Feb. 12, 2013 — Charles Darwin’s 204th birthday — as Darwin Day, “recognizing the importance of science in the betterment of humanity.” Mr. Holt, a nuclear physicist by training, would probably not have the support of his colleague Paul Broun, a Republican from Georgia’s 10th Congressional District. Representative Broun, a doctor, is famous among science lovers for having told the Liberty Baptist Church Sportsman’s Banquet last fall that “all that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang theory, all that is lies, straight from the pit of hell.” Evolution, he added, is one of those “lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior.” Two congressmen, two Christians and two very different views of the man who in 1859 published “On the Origin of Species.”
Reuters: Church should have more control over Russian life: Putin
President Vladimir Putin said on Friday the Orthodox Church should be given more say over family life, education and the armed forces in Russia, as he celebrated the leadership of its head Patriarch Kirill. Faith runs deep in Russia after the fall of the officially atheist Soviet Union and Putin has looked to the largest religion in Russia for support since he began his third term as president after a wave of protests against his rule.
The Jewish Daily Forward: Advocates for Religious Pluralism in Israel Buoyed by Election Results
Proponents of religious pluralism in Israel are in a jubilant mood these days, saying that the surprise results of the January 22 elections may lead to some of the momentous changes they have been seeking. When the Yesh Atid (“There Is a Future”) party emerged as the second-largest faction, many saw it as a long-overdue message from the electorate that Israel’s Orthodox-favoring religious status quo needs to change. In a political culture normally dominated by foreign policy, it is rare to see the triumph of a party so focused on domestic issues.
The Times of India: Buddhist conclave digs into excavation prospect
Experts from India and abroad on Friday began churning Odisha's rich Buddhist heritage at Udayagiri, about 85 km from here in Jajpur district, raising hopes of fresh initiatives for major excavations in the state. Though the three-day international meet is aimed at showcasing the state's Buddhist treasure with a view to attract more tourists, experts are of the view that the goal cannot be achieved unless more ancient sites are brought to light and that can be possible only if the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) or its state counterpart takes up major excavations.
Opinion of the Day:
CNN Opinon: Real heroes: four died so others might live
While you watch the Super Bowl 'heroes' today, remember the four military chaplains who on this day in 1943 selflessly ushered soldiers on a sinking ship to safety, Bob Greene says.
Join the conversation…
CNN: Opt out option expected for religious insurers who oppose contraceptives
Religiously affiliated organizations will be able to opt out of providing their employees with insurance coverage for contraceptives under updates to an Obama administration mandate that the Department of Health and Human Services is expected to unveil on Friday, according to two sources. In March, after an uproar among religious institutions that didn't want to pay for contraceptives, the Obama administration offered several policy suggestions that would require the administrator of the insurance policy, not the religious institution or the insurer, to pay for contraception coverage and invited comment on those proposals.
All so called atheists are liars. That said we can now review the entire so called atheist contributions to society and put them in their proper place, the refuse. Truth be told the only good quality a so called atheist could offer mankind is to off itself thus creating a much better world. 250 million innocent people would have been spared torture and death in world war 2 if the atheist adolf hitler had succeeded in his early attempt at suicide.
Yawn. How many times have been told that is not true – Hitler was a christian. Change your handle or live up to it.
All so called religionists are liars. That said we can now review the entire so called religionist contributions to society and put them in their proper place, the refuse. Truth be told the only good quality a so called religionist could offer mankind is to off itself thus creating a much better world. 250 million innocent people would have been spared torture and death in world war 2 if the Catholic adolf hitler had succeeded in his early attempt at suicide.
Those who knew hitler knew that he was an atheist and as I always say a so called atheist is a liar. In short thanks santa for adding more proof to my comments.
truth be told,
Atheists and even the religious sects have both a very long history of laying waste to untold numbers of mass executions. Therefore all of humanism is held in contempt of deadliness issues. Only thru individualism can one's journey thru Life be set and maintained accordingly and in presumption allotted of any worthiness for God and God's sons.
LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL.
“This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the
practical existence of a religious belief.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.152]
“And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his
estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove
those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.174]
“Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another… while the
enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.309]
“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”
[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]
There's if need.
Akira, read the truth and laugh all you want.
Adolph Hitler (Rothschild)
Father: Alois Hiedler. Jewish Grandfather: Barron Salomon Mayer Rothschild
There's more if you need.*
@me...
Sorry to point this out to you you moron but you are quoting a proven atheist liar as Truth. But thanks for confirming that ALL atheists are liars.
tbt. Sometimes I think you're here just to yank chains. I find it hard to believe that anyone is so stupid and blinkered. Someone provides quotes from Adolf Hitler (who you said was an atheist) saying about his christian beliefs and you call them lies. I think Adolf would know his own religion better than you.
tbt your a big stupid a$$ hat
I just wanted to leave a comment about the cheap Pastor.
In her note she said "god gets 10% why should you get 18%? "
Answer: The server actually does something to earn the money.
how does the biblical account of nineveh and nimrod/gilgamesh not prove that the bible is not a mythical book but rather a accurate and historical account of the nation of israel? how can you take this from Genesis 10 and then argue with the validity of the stories of Israel and pharoah and sit here and act like the books are fradulent. booooooooooooooooo!!!
It just shows what scholars have known all along: the Israelites stole their myths from their neighbors.
TANK!!!!,
The repeating natures of religious passages are of spiritual divinations and hardly a mythological clairvoyance except in the minds skeptics and scoffers and even atheists. For as many sons of God being as gods themselves did thru God's commands ascend up from the atomic realms to become manifestations via skilled inceptions within the womanhood(s) and give all their invested knowledge toward those found compelled to listen, ergo the distillation process of all humanism to be taught in Life Trials and Errors.
So all the t.wats that claim and have claimed to be god incarnate are telling the truth?
TANK,
We are all gigantic children made manifest thru atomic foundries in ways left up to God's sons who live upon our embodiments atomic symmetries.
How does one falisify evolution?
1) Evolution needs millions of years to take place. If organic material survived a million years, be it DNA, soft tissue, or even bone, then evolution would be falsified. Not for atheists!
2) Evolution needs more than a centillion species to justify today's current diversity. If a centillion species could not be identified, then evolution would be falsified. Not for atheists!
3) Evolution should be able to be duplicated in a labratory setting. If evolution could not be duplicated in a labratory setting that simulates evolution over a million+ years, then evolution would be falsified. Not for atheists!
So, WHAT does it take for an atheist to falsify evolution?
Well for one you might want to actually demonstrate you know what you're talking about.
Those are the stupidest reasons I've heard to date against evolution.
I guess you're going to have to specify what you mean by falsify evolution. Are you saying a certain form of evotion? or you discussing the entire theory or idea of evolution?
I guess one way to "falsify" evolution is if your god came down from heaven and said, "you got it all wrong", that'd do it for me. So where's your god? why so quiet?
I used to think you were at least proficient at sophistry. Now I see that you merely an id-iot.
" Evolution should be able to be duplicated in a labratory setting. If evolution could not be duplicated in a labratory setting that simulates evolution over a million+ years, then evolution would be falsified"
Yep. Definitely a few screws loose in your mind.
Sigh....
Please do not even bother with this guy.
" For an evolutionist to argue with a creationist is like a reproductive scientist arguing with someone who believes in the stork theory "
A good start on falsifying evolution would be to show that it is not necessary, even obligatory, as information theory seems to indicate that it is. This gets at the heart of evolution. The flow and change of genetic information through generations.
Lie4Him, The parts of this that almost make sense have been answered each time you post. Short-term memory problems? Pray. Oh wait that has been proven not to work.
Well, Liv4Him, we've just been waiting for you to come along and report your indisputible arguments to a scientific journal.
"The finding amazed colleagues, who had never imagined that even a trace of still-soft dinosaur tissue could survive. After all, as any textbook will tell you, when an animal dies, soft tissues such as blood vessels, muscle and skin decay and disappear over time, while hard tissues like bone may gradually acquire minerals from the environment and become fossils."
"It got me real curious as to exceptional preservation,” she says. "If particles of that one dinosaur were able to hang around for 65 million years, maybe the textbooks were wrong about fossilization." – smithsonianmag.com
It's funny how a creationist see's this and says "Aha!! All the other data telling us these bones are millions of years old must be wrong because we can't explain how this one tiny soft sample survived so long!" while the scientist and people who actually think for a living come to the other conclusion, that what we thought about the fossilization process may be incomplete.
@ The Truth That is what sophists do. Unfortunately our resident sophist is not too skilled at her craft.
1) FALSE and FALSE. Small changes happen over a generation, large changes happen over large periods of time. A little evolution will happen when you have children. And, how the fossilization process may preserve soft tissue has precisely ZERO to do with evolution.
2) FALSE. That's so nonsensical that I can't even respond.
3) FALSE. Astronomy, geology, plate tectonics and epidemiology can't be recreated in a lab. Are they falsified too?
What's more likely – God created a universe with such elegant systems and rules that it can run on its own without his continual intervention, or God created a universe that requires him to break his own laws of physics to magically create things like humans, fish and flowers?
What does it take to get some theists to stop worshipping the work of men (the Bible) and appreciate God's greatest invention (evolution). None of the evidence for evolution, from fossils to DNA, was created by MEN. How much more evidence does God have to provide you before you'll believe Him?
You may Live 4 Him, but you certainly don't appreciate Him or listen to what he's telling you.
More pseudo-science nonsense, all in the name of the wedge strategy, from L4H. Nothing new here, the same argument will resurface somewhere else later, where the creationists hope a rebuttal will not be seen in time.
@live 4him
They have seen this NEWS FLASH !!!
EVOLUTION IN A TEST TUBE Jan. 30 2013
News Release
3-D structure of the evolved enzyme (an RNA ligase), using 10 overlaid snapshots. In the top region, the overlays show the range of bending and folding flexibility in the amino acid chain that forms the molecule. The two gray balls are zinc ions. (University of Minnesota)
University of Minnesota researchers unveil first artificial enzyme created by evolution in a test tube
Thanks Doc.
Liv4him, if you are going to continue to use "soft tissue" as a key in your debates at least read this paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1685849/
It is a paper, not an article about a paper. The thing is that while you and others are going around claiming no "soft tissue" can survive more than 10,000 years, the person that discovered it (who happens to be a devout Christian) is questioning how the soft tissue lasted so long. In order for the assertion that the "soft tissue" can NOT last that long, all of the laws of radiometric dating would have to overturned first.
You're asking Lie4Him to read scientific literature?????
That float, for creationists .
and still not funny.
Well they (creationists) could catch the floating nuts from the arc for food aye
Nuts are good!
tower of babel was definately no started 100 years after the end of the flood.
and there are plenty of ways for fresh water fish or eggs to survive. and you are forgetting that the rivers were parted,that moses came down with grey hair, the plagues, and creation. no you not as nifty as you think you are. but i dont blame you for rationally try to pick through this stuff, however a supernatural God does not explain His ways every time. Hang in there brothers. Keep you chin up Fred. Prayin for you all.
Let me make sure I understand –
A bunch of men tried to build a tower to god. God got angry. God made them all speak different languages. They all scattered (presumably with women they couldn't talk to) and started all these different countries that spoke all te new languages. Right?
But where did all the different religions come from? Shouldn'r everyone still have been jewish?
I love it. The religious will run with logic and reason only so far as it serves their needs then abandon it in favor of "God is a Mystery" when they are shown how moronic their logic and reason is.
Here's a sample:
The bible says there was a global flood cover the entire earth in water for 40 days and 40 nights, far longer than any land based creature could survive and from what we know of ocean habitats would have destroyed all the fresh water fish millions of species, far more than any boat could have held if there had only been one of each, let alone two... if you don't factor in how God can do anything, you know, like keeping the fresh waters and salt waters from mixing, making sure any species not on the ark found some safe harbor in a landscape without harbors, and making a 747 disappear from before your very eyes! Oh wait, that last one was David Copperfield...
You might as well sit in the corner Rodney and wonder to yourself about whether God can make a rock so heavy he couldn't even lift it...
"rationally try to pick through this stuff"
Love it!!
Describing a Higgs Field or the h2o of atomic particles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIg1Vh7uPyw&feature=player_embedded
papa?
O U c = c r2 A c c< x c Cr
The Overall Universal cosmology equals a conforming relativity squared to the Atomized cosmologies confinement times (X) the cellular Cosmologies restraints.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NbBjNiw4tk&feature=player_embedded
(how to build a rickshaw)
I asked for an example of a prophacy that the bible foretold that has come to pass. The only one Live4him provided was Ezekiel 37, the jews renaming their holy land. I argued that this was a self fulfilling prophacy,proved nothing, and not all that insightful. Could someone please do better?
@New Athiest : I asked for an example of a prophacy that the bible foretold that has come to pass. The only one Live4him provided was Ezekiel 37
I provided a RECENTLY fulfilled prophecy. And you're objection was that you didn't like it. Why? Because it disagreed with your apriori conclusions.
Well you see there was this one prophecy that the messiah would be a great warrior..... oops, ok so jesus didn't fulfill that one, so what. What about the one that when the messiah comes, he would literally bring all jews together in a single place .... I guess that place means "earth", yeah, that would make him fulfiil the prophecy.
What about the one where the messiah will be related to the line of kings? Jesus fullfills that one because Joseph is a descendent of King David.... wait, Joseph didn't impregnate Mary so couldn't have passed along his genetic heritage to jesus? Crap!
What about an easy one, the messiah would walk through the west gate on a donkey, cus no one has ever done that before!
See jesus must have been the messiah from all the prophecies he fulfilled!
Jesus fulfilled the prophecies because he had read them and knew what to do, and his followers had read them and knew what to make up after he died.
The seed of a woman Genesis3:15, see also Galatians 4:4
Read Mary's lineage, also judaism is based on maternal lineage
@Pete : Jesus fulfilled the prophecies because he had read them and knew what to do, and his followers had read them and knew what to make up after he died.
Jesus was crucifed in 33 AD and His disciples died within the next 70 years. So, how do you propose that they manipulated events to cause Israel's rebirth in 1948 (i.e. 64 years ago)?
They really went out on a limb with that one, if god were real he would have given the exact date. I'll make a prophecy right now. At some undetermined time in the future Persia will be reborn. Now all we have to do is wait.
@live4him
you are either deaf, dumb, blind or stupid. Or some combination of the 4. In context, i could argue for all four.
The jews have been trying to reclaim control of their holy land since they lost it. It doesn't take a god to predict that someday they could succeed. I was hoping someone could provide something that even remotely suggested a god exists or that the author of the bible had any insight.. You failed.
But that's okay. your god and i still respect you as a human being.
@Live
Something written as "At some point, I'm not saying when, this will happen" may as well be a flashing neon signpost sayin "Hey, everyone, do this thing here". It's not prophesy, it's instruction.
Let us not forget the mighty god himself prophesied his own son would be named Ishmael, yet apparently the li'l bugger was named Jesus. I mean, right out of the gate, if your own dadgum god is so impotent he can't even prophesy his own kid's name correctly, well, maybe consider your religion is barking up the wrong tree.
Chuckles,
Warrior = second coming
All the children of Israel in new Jerusalem = second coming
Descendent of David, you are correct Joseph his earthly father was in David’s line and so was his mother Mary, see Luke 3.
@Pete : They really went out on a limb with that one, if god were real he would have given the exact date.
You obviously haven't watched much science fiction movies. Whenever the future is known in detail (i.e. dates), people/events conspire to change the future. When the future is unknown, the events follow their course.
New Athiest,
Fulfilled prophecy, just off the top of my head, captivity of the northern kingdom by the assyrians, captivity of Judah by the Babylonians, and oh yeah the first coming of our savior.
@Live4Him,
"You obviously haven't watched much science fiction movies. Whenever the future is known in detail (i.e. dates), people/events conspire to change the future. When the future is unknown, the events follow their course."
This is also called a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Hey everyone, look. LIE4him has now gone from literary fiction )(bible) and is now defending herself with science fiction. Way to go LIE4him. I'm sure this will bolster your credibility.
@Live4Him answers his/her own question.
"Jesus was crucifed in 33 AD and His disciples died within the next 70 years. So, how do you propose that they manipulated events to cause Israel's rebirth in 1948 (i.e. 64 years ago)?"
February 4, 2013 at 3:35 pm
"Whenever the future is known in detail (i.e. dates), people/events conspire to change the future. When the future is unknown, the events follow their course."
February 4, 2013 at 4:01 pm
Well said.
@ME II : This is also called a self-fulfilling prophecy.
So, you're trying to convince me that if you KNEW that you would be killed in a car accident on Feb 5, 2013, you would continue to drive your car like normal? :0
Try this one, from Revelation 11, speaking of the two witnesses who will testify during the final days note verses 8 and 9: "when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth."
So, either John had had a prophecy of satellite television or rapid transportation (and certainly worldwide communication) (that would have been completely alien to anyone at the time the book was written) such that people from all of the world would be able to witness their decaying bodies and then receive the news of their death and celebrate (let alone their existence in the first place)
@ME II : Live4Him answers his/her own question.
So, you're claiming that Hilter wanted the nation of Israel to be reborn?
@Live4Him,
No, I'm saying the reason there is an Israel today, is that it was "prophecied" in big book that a lot of people believe in. If it were unknown then it wouldn't have happened.
@Live4Him,
"So, you're claiming that Hilter wanted the nation of Israel to be reborn?"
I don't know what Hitler wanted, but the relocation to and founding of modern Israel was, obviously, heavily influenced by the Bible "prophecies". To say otherwise, strains any credibility.
@New Athiest : The jews have been trying to reclaim control of their holy land since they lost it.
And they were such a powerful nation they wrestled control of the land from England? But, they were not even a nation at that point. So, while they may have WANTED to reclaim control, they had no say-so in the decision. Second, doesn't it strike you as strange that their traditions, identity, etc. remained intact after almost 1900 years? How many times has this occurred before?
Topher, what Pete said is probably the biggest problem, but also there is no evidence whatsoever for a worldwide flood.
@Tommy : there is no evidence whatsoever for a worldwide flood.
What evidence would you expect to see of a worldwide flood?
Mass extinction of all land animals that can't swim, within the last 10,000-1,000,000 years.
@ME II : Mass extinction of all land animals that can't swim, within the last 10,000-1,000,000 years.
Since soft tissue doesn't survive for more than 10,000 years and since we've found dino soft tissue, Would this include all the dinosaurs? 😉
Still going with the lie about dino soft tissue I see.
@Live
Are you just plain stupid or dishonest? People have called you on this, and all you do is run and repost the same idiocy? I guess you take Luther's "Lie for Jesus" philosophy seriously.
She likes to throw that one out there not for those of us who know she's full of dishonest shlt, but for her fellow deluded sycophants who will see it as affirmation of their belief no matter how flawed the logic is.
@Live4Himl,
"Since soft tissue doesn't survive for more than 10,000 years and since we've found dino soft tissue, Would this include all the dinosaurs?"
I read through your article from the other day, but didn't see anything about it being impossible for soft tissue to survive such time periods, not that I'm saying they can. Your article was on the survivability of DNA, and even then I don't recall an upper limit, just an ever decreasing likelihood of intact DNA.
But, I may have missed something, too.
It's not a flaw in logic. It's a complete flaw is comprehension of exactly what happened and what the facts actually point to. Not to mention what the facts actually are.
@ME II : didn't see anything about it being impossible for soft tissue to survive such time periods, ... Your article was on the survivability of DNA, and even then I don't recall an upper limit
The upper limit was the 10,000 years if you read the article. That said, soft tissue is composed of DNA, so if DNA couldn't survive, then soft tissue couldn't either. Additionally, the latest reports out is that they've sequenced portions of the DNA. So, no matter how it is diced, the evidence falsifies the 65+ million years theory.
Additionally, there are historic artifacts that depict dinosarus – pottery, temples, Egyptian monuments, etc. So, it's obvious that man and dinosaurs co-existed at one time in history.
@Live
LOL Soft tissue is made completely of DNA? Really?
Where the hell did you get that from?
@l4h
Do you like circles ?
@Live4Him,
"The upper limit was the 10,000 years if you read the article."
I did not see that in the article, but I don't have the link handy any more.
... (filter issues)
@Live4Him,
"That said, soft tissue is composed of DNA, so if DNA couldn't survive, then soft tissue couldn't either."
DNA is only a small, fragile, part of the cells that make up "soft tissue", e.g., tendons, blood vessel walls, b.one marrow, etc. Additionaly, if I recall correctly, the article said that DNAs fragility was in part due to the evironment within the cell and without the repair mechanisms of the cell, DNA would start degrading almost immediately.
(filter issues)...
@Live4Him,
"Additionally, the latest reports out is that they've sequenced portions of the DNA. So, no matter how it is diced, the evidence falsifies the 65+ million years theory."
I haven't seen this. Please, provide a source, if you have one handy, thanks.
(filter issues)...
@Live4Him,
"Additionally, there are historic artifacts that depict dinosarus – pottery, temples, Egyptian monuments, etc. So, it's obvious that man and dinosaurs co-existed at one time in history."
I'm not sure which artifacts you are referring to specifically, but I do know that there are many claims of dinosaur depiction that do not hold up to scrutiny.
http://archaeologREMOVEynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2011/03/scientists-debunk-creationist-arguments.html
As well as supposed, dino-man side by side footprints:
http://ncse.com/cej/2/4/paluxy-man-creationist-piltdown
Additionally, there has never been, to my knowledge, any human fossils found with dinosaur fossils. If there were a global flood when dinos and men existed that formed all known geology, surely they would have been some that fossilized together.
gyn
. gyne
Lie4Him, All your posts about deterioration of soft tissue were shown last week to be false (as usual for you). Under ideal conditions DNA is currently thought to last about 1,000,000 years. Even if it did deteriorate quicker that doesn't disprove evolution.
Insteresting:
"Human DNA has been recovered from a Neanderthal fossil 70,000 years old."
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/jan/13/thisweekssciencequestions1)
"The oldest DNA samples ever recovered are from insects and plants in ice cores in Greenland up to 800,000 years old. "
"'If the decay rate is accurate then we predict that DNA fragments of sufficient length will preserve in frozen fossil bone of around one million years in age', [said Mike Bunce, from Murdoch University's Ancient DNA lab in Perth]"
( http://www.nbcnews.com/id/49366487/ns/technology_and_science-science/#.URA0gh071MA)
10/2012 – Dinosaur Fossils Found with Hot Red Meat?
http://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/dinosaur-fossils-found-with-hot-red-meat/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxlwg9DPT9o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=219YybX66MY&feature=player_embedded
Fundies love to reply to debates with da one-sided story.
But why this one??
The paranoia of demented verboseness runs thru the courses of each and all socialisms. Fearing of other socialists to do harm is a commonality of any individualist who holds their views in sarcastic cynicisms. For any individual(s) to say bitterly sarcastic commentaries in any adversarial way when confronted by alleged mean spirited social congregations dare goes against the decencies of well-mannered socialized behaviorism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NbBjNiw4tk&feature=player_embedded
The schizophrenic universe 02/02/13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHHz4mB9GKY&feature=player_embedded
Dick Tracy oneman flying machine 02/01/03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOVh-vlUius&feature=player_detailpage
Goodness, even I got the 'Tardis' reference...
Its nice that you like science, Its a shame you wont listen to it.
Good morning, everyone! What shall we talk about today?
Will it float ?
Yes.
And your proof of that is what, exactly ?
Depends on which thing you are talking about.
The Ark experience.
It doesn't need to it was a one time event already done.
If it's just the shell of it I bet it would. But the Experience has many modern factors in it ... such as electricity, lighting, computers ... things that would not have been on the original. Also, the Experience is being built to represent the Ark in its unfinished state. I believe it will have scaffolding all around it and may even have a large portion where it's open to the elements ... so adding in all those factors, I can't really say ... Also remember, AiG is not building it to float it. It's a museum.
Answers in Genesis/The Center for Science and Culture/Discovery Inst.itute admit that their goal isn't to teach what they think is fact. An internal doc.ument leaked in 1999 described the Discovery group's objective in pushing for creationism to be taught as "to defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies". They want to use Intelligent Design as a "wedge" to separate science from its allegiance to "atheistic naturalism".
In other words, they fear that teaching FACTS to children will drive them away from religion.
"If it's just the shell of it I bet it would."
Oh maybe that's why you thought those turtles would be ok on their own. But I'm sure they expired only a few miles into the Atlantic where you left them. You said the ark didn't have to go very far. So those turtles dropped off at Gibraltar were somehow supposed to make it all the way back to the the Galapagos on their own. Fat chance. No sir. I'm not buying that.
@truth be told
You said, "It doesn't need to it was a one time event already done."
Then tell me, where did all the water come from to flood the entire surface of the Earth? Where did it go afterward? How did all the animals make it to the ark? How did they all fit on that tiny little boat. How did they get back to the isolated places afterward? How did all the fish survive in brackish water?
The Wedge Strategy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy
Organized creationist effort to overturn evolution and "reverse the stifling materialist world view and replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions" through the public marketing of fraudulent pseudo-science.
The existence of the wedge strategy is interesting, to say the least. Seems every time it's mentioned, L4H refuses to address it and disappears quickly. Hmmmm.
Topher and the talking snake.
Dover trial.
\Peace
Doc is right on.
Billy
I told you the other day and will tell you again ... the Ark was not a taxi service. It didn't go dropping off any animals any where.
So, OK, don't buy it. It's not essential to your salvation. Repent and trust the Savior.
Add this into the equation
4,000,000 species of animals, insects and plants on the planet.
All plants would have died, nearly every insect, and every animal would be dead.
How did the earth get repopulated?
How did the plants which are not mobile, spread back over the world?
midwest I was beginning to notice a pattern as well. I was starting to think of mentioning Wedge as garlic to ward of vampiric creationists.
*ward off
In recent studies, credible theologians have revealed that the physical dimensions of Noah's Ark are actually much, much smaller than those depicted in the Bible. They theorize that the source texts were modified to be more believable as nobody would be able to imagine all life on Earth fitting into a box no bigger than a phone booth.
The oral histories of a small, reclusive sect of ultra-orthodox Jews say that the Ark made a "fwomp fwomp fwomp" sound before it gradually faded from sight. Stone tablets retrieved from this same sect show that the name "Noah" is actually an ancient Hebrew word from a long lost dialect that translates to "Healer" or "Doctor".
They also found evidence that Moses' staff was really a small, hand held device about the size of a pen that emitted a high pitched squeal and glowing green light. "Staff" also appears to be a mistranslation. The original word was "screwdriver".
Leviticus is full of rules of conduct for the Hebrew people, but there was one particular passage that caused so much confusion and strife at the Nicene Council that they elected to omit it from the Bible.
Scraps of that ancient text were found in the same cave as the Dead Sea Scrolls but have yet to be publically released. The text seems to be proclamations from a long forgotten prophet, but there is little context to make any sense of them.
Thus far, scholars have translated: "run", "don't blink", and a thoroughly confusing psalm praising the virtues of decorative neckwear.
This evidence, compounded with the Biblical texts that say Noah lived to be close to 1,000 years old, confirm without a doubt that Noah was actually from Gallifrey and the Ark a TARDIS.
Doc Vestibule
"In recent studies, credible theologians have revealed that the physical dimensions of Noah's Ark are actually much, much smaller than those depicted in the Bible."
Source?
"They theorize ..."
Wait, so did they really have evidence or is it just their guesswork?
" that the source texts were modified to be more believable as nobody would be able to imagine all life on Earth fitting into a box no bigger than a phone booth."
So where are the these originals so that they know things were modified? And the Ark was way bigger than a phone booth. And it wasn't all life.
"The oral histories of a small, reclusive sect of ultra-orthodox Jews say that the Ark made a "fwomp fwomp fwomp" sound before it gradually faded from sight."
No one would have seen the Ark "fade from sight" and they certainly wouldn't have survived to record a history of it.
"Stone tablets retrieved from this same sect show that the name "Noah" is actually an ancient Hebrew word from a long lost dialect that translates to "Healer" or "Doctor"."
Sources?
"They also found evidence that Moses' staff was really a small, hand held device about the size of a pen that emitted a high pitched squeal and glowing green light. "Staff" also appears to be a mistranslation. The original word was "screwdriver"."
Sources? You know what? Same for the rest of this ridiculousness ... Sources?
@Topher
Not a Doctor Who fan, eh?
It's bigger on the inside.
Goodness, even I got the 'Tardis' reference...and yeah, it's much roomier inside than one would guess at first glance...
Doc used an item from his list, "Show them something shiny."
So what else should we talk about?
I would like to discuss how anyone with a functioning brain could take the Noah's Ark story seriously.
Tommy
Unnecessary insults aside, what are your problems with the Ark?
@Doc The test tube deal. Is that us in there. Topher too.
There is not a single aspect of the story that I find believable.
So you don't believe in God?
Well No, that is just one of about 500 reasons to not believe the Noah's Ark story.
Tommy,
Some say the old testament God was just too mean and is not worthy of worship. Why would he create humans knowing they were going to rebel and then kill them wholesale? There are several examples in the bible, the most extreme is the flood.
It is not believed because we do not see evidence of a worldwide flood and if there was one, the God who did it could not be a good God worthy of worship. Not only that, but the idea that humans and animals developed to some point then were all but eliminated from the earth just does not line up with what we think we know of the history of the earth, at least as far as timing.
First, let’s look at what we do know, there are in modern times examples of huge catastrophic floods. There is evidence from ancient times of floods. Now, could Noah’s flood have been a local or regional flood? Could one family have built a boat similar to the dimensions recorded in the bible? Would a boat of this size be adequate to hold a family, their livestock, a collection of local wild animals, and all the food and water the group would need to survive for a long time? If you can accept that all this is possible, then the story, parable, or allegory also seems to be a reasonable possibility.
Would a God who would destroy a bunch of extremely mean people and preserve some good ones still be unworthy of worship? If so, then what would be the lesson or message of such a parable? It seems very simple to me, God is demonstrating his intention to create, allow people the opportunity to choose good or bad, allow the ones who have chosen evil to change their minds, and then ultimately, eliminate evil and preserve good. What could possibly be wrong with that?
Robert, I agree the story was made up to try and explain something just like most of genesis is made up.
Fair enough. But WHY don't you believe in God?
19 years of religious upbringing convinced me that there is no god.
@Topher,
Why don't you believe in reincarnation or slug aliens who have implanted memories into our brains? When there are an infinite number of possible things to believe, the question cannot practically be why we do n't believe each one, because it isn't possible to evaluate them all.
Tommy
So you think you had bad teachers? What was the problem?
Saraswati
"Why don't you believe in reincarnation or slug aliens who have implanted memories into our brains?"
Why SHOULD I believe those things?
"When there are an infinite number of possible things to believe, the question cannot practically be why we do n't believe each one, because it isn't possible to evaluate them all."
That's fair. But I believe there's plenty of evidence to believe in God. Not so for reincarnation or aliens.
No Topher, I had good teachers. They did such a good job of teaching me about the bible that it was easy for me to come to my decision, despite the fact that they thought I should come to the opposite conclusion.
Tommy
I'm sure you have lots of problems with it, but what's the BIG one?
@Topher,
"But I believe there's plenty of evidence to believe in God. Not so for reincarnation or aliens."
There are plenty of things that we don't know, true. But to classify those things as evidence for God is not valid, I don't think.
ME II
I don't think I'm considering things we don't know as evidence for God. I'm not a "God of the Gaps" kinda guy.
Topher,
" Not so [evidence] for reincarnation or aliens."
Maybe they have hidden the evidence from us. Maybe it is a giant experiment to see how we do with the 'implants' they bestowed upon us... and to see what kind of co'ckamamie stuff we can dream up!
@Topher,
... and those would be?
The first big problem is that if noah put 2 of every animal on the ark, and all of the rest were killed in the flood then we would have no animals left on Earth at this point because one male and one female is not enough for the continued survival of a species.
Topher, there is no evidence whatsoever the the entire world has ever been flooded. Until their is evidence for a worldwide flood I will continue to find Noah's Ark story to be unbelievable. Also, what Pete said is another huge problem for the story.
Tommy
"Topher, there is no evidence whatsoever the the entire world has ever been flooded"
I'd disagree with that. I think the fossil record shows there was a major catastrophe (flood) that killed a LOT of stuff all at the same time.
"Until their is evidence for a worldwide flood I will continue to find Noah's Ark story to be unbelievable. Also, what Pete said is another huge problem for the story."
I'd disagree with that, too. When I was a kid I had a couple pet white mice. My cousin did, too. We kept them in small aquariums. Those things bred more often than rabbits.
Tommy
I'm more interested in why you don't believe there's a God.
Topher makes stunted growth, head trauma pre-schoolers look smart.
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Matt 24:37
Jesus always had a way of clearing up any confusion that may lead some the wrong way. Instead of getting distracted (listening to the talking serpent again) it would be reasonable and logical to focus on the truth. How hard is it to get the fact that when you attack and mock the flood story you are revealing the true nature of your heart? The truth revealed in the Bible is the Word of God and again divides right and wrong, good and evil every time it is presented.
The truth is that Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord while the rest of the world mocked Noah as he built an ark for 120 years. Jesus found favor in the eyes of God hung on the cross while the world mocked, spit and pound nails into his hands and feet. Truth everyone commenting in this site knows is that Noah and Jesus were good and believed in God. Both carried a message of salvation to a dying world. Both were ridiculed and mocked for their belief. In the case of Noah judgment took a long time but it came. In the case of Jesus as with Noah we have been warned, judgment is coming.
Tophers evidence:
Lot's of thingies died, therefore global flood and noah's ark is true.
Right, I'm sure.
To suggest that the fossil record is proof of a world wide flood only proves that either you don't know anything about the fossil record, or that you are lying.
@Topher,
" I think the fossil record shows there was a major catastrophe (flood) that killed a LOT of stuff all at the same time."
That is an extremely simplistic view of geology, that all of the geologic record happened in a relatively short period of time, which was basically disproved in the 19th century, I think. Lyle, perhaps?
Tommy
"To suggest that the fossil record is proof of a world wide flood only proves that either you don't know anything about the fossil record, or that you are lying."
I'm not lying. Is it possible I don't know jack about the fossil record. Likely. That doesn't mean it isn't true, though.
So seriously, dude. Why don't you believe in God? And is it that you don't believe for a reason, or is it that you just don't want it to be true?
@Topher
"I'm not lying. Is it possible I don't know jack about the fossil record. Likely. That doesn't mean it isn't true, though."
Really? Really?
"I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but what I say has validity."
This is your contention?
Topher, let me help you then. It is not true.
@Topher,
"And is it that you don't believe for a reason,..."
I'll drop after this, but I would suggest that you might have it backwards. I (and I presume others too) don't see any reason to believe.
Peace
Why?
I don't believe in god because I see no reason to believe that there is a god, and after reading and studying the bible for most of my life I am 100% certain that the god of the bible isn't real.
Topher
Body World The Cycle of Life real dead humans hanging around.
Did not hear about any souls hanging around
This is hilarious.
Yoo hoo. Topher. Ignoring me still? How cute. Can you give me an example of how I'm not "civil" yet? I've asked before, but you seem only capable of saying that I am in very aside ways before you run from the forums.
Do you not find Creation compelling evidence for a Creator?
What is Creation, Topher?
@Topher
Prove that there was a "creation". Using that term is merely attempting to pidgeon hole your god into the premise. Wait, what's that called again? Oh that's right, it's called a Begging the Question Fallacy.
Tom, Tom, the Other One
In simple terms, it's what you and I might call 'nature.' Grass, trees, animals ...
The Bible states that there were only 3 breeding pairs of humans after the flood in 2349 BCE, with all of the males being 1st order relatives (Noah and his wife didn't have any more kids).
There are a number of civilizations that existed at that time who kept detailed records (IE: Ancient Egypt) with nary a mention of a flood (other than the annual swelling of the NIle). Oh – and the little fact that those civilizations continued to exist for quite some time afterwards.
The story of the Tower of Babel is supposed to have happened a mere 100 years after the flood.
How did 3 breeding pairs of humans, none of whom could cross-breed without incurring significant risk of negative genetic reinforcement via inbreeding, spawn a populace capable of building a monument so grand it threatened God Himself? How did such a small breeding stock result in the genetic diversity we see today in the human species?
When the salt and fresh waters joined together (as they must have in a global flood where the waters rose to above the level of most mountains), how did all the fish survive? The vast majority of fresh water aquatic life cannot survive even small changes in the salinity of water.
How are there both types of water-borne life?
So even when I ask nicely (at least I thought so) exactly what is uncivil about my posts, and Topher can't even answer that. Why is that. Topher why are you so afraid to answer any question I pose?
Why use the word creation for nature, Topher? It could be called nature, or That Which Exists.
Tom, Tom, the Other One
Creation and nature are interchangeable. Let's not go down a rabbit trail here.
No, I don't find the fact that life exists to be compelling evidence for a creator.
TO Topher
Sounds like you hold the SAME view as the world wide creationists at the ICR, do you???
Doc
Problem would be with 2349 BC for the date of the flood. The Bible does not set a time.
@Fred
I'm assuming that those who argue in favour of a literal interpretation of the flood are young earth creationists.
Noah was born 126 years after Adam's death at age 930 (if you add up the begats).
Adam-Seth 130 years
Seth-Enosh 105 Years
Enosh-Kenan 90 Years
Kenan-Mahalalel 70 Years
Mahalalel-Jared 65 Years
Jared-Enoch 162 Years
Enoch-Methuselah 65 Years
Methuselah-Lamech 187 Years
Lamech-Noah 182 Years
Gen 7:6 tells us that Noah was 600 years old when the flood came.
If the Earth is 6,000 years old, it has been approximately 4,340 years since Noah built the Ark.
Once again, this is based on a typical YEC belief regarding the age of the Earth.
Fred you could place the date of the flood at anytime you want, and there is still no evidence that it ever happened.
Science
"Sounds like you hold the SAME view as the world wide creationists at the ICR, do you???"
I am a Creationist, but I'm unfamiliar with the ICR. So I have no idea if I agree with them.
how are you coming up with 100 years from the end of the flood to the tower of Babel?
Hey Doc
Looks like they are showing here today.
The creationists do not like that foul word.
Topher – Rabbit trail? At any rate, you call nature "Creation" because you have presupposed a Creator. No, Creation minus the Creator, nature, in other words, is not evidence for a Creator.
what about Nimrod going to assyria to build Nineveh. I though Nineveh was a mythical capital . . oh never mind they found that place.
Go look icr.org
They are have a hard time with science seeping into the class room. I read some where.
Rodney, Troy was a real place. Long life Zeus. Do you see how dumb your logic sounds now?
Oops are having
Tom, Tom, the Other One
"At any rate, you call nature "Creation" because you have presupposed a Creator"
True, I do have that presupposition. Just as atheists do in the opposite.
"No, Creation minus the Creator, nature, in other words, is not evidence for a Creator."
Fine. But when I look at "nature", I refuse to believe that nothing some how blew up and created the order we see in "nature." I don't have that kind of faith.
Yoo hoo Topher. Why can't you even do something as simple as giving an example of how my posts are "uncivil"?
you dont know the significance of the reality of Nineveh , anyways the scientific community long denied the reality of nineveh and called it mythical for the longest time.
explain the accelleration of radio active decay...or is it miscalibration? how is it that there are zirconium chrystals all over the place dating to 6000 years in the column that is supposedly 500 million years old. what is the explanation? its called a problem with the "consistant model theory"
tower of babel was definately no started 100 years after the end of the flood.
and there are plenty of ways for fresh water fish or eggs to survive. and you are forgetting that the rivers were parted,that moses came down with grey hair, the plagues, and creation. no you not as nifty as you think you are. but i dont blame you for rationally try to pick through this stuff, however a supernatural God does not explain His ways every time. Hang in there brothers. Keep you chin up Fred. Prayin for you all.
Robert Brown wrote, "Now, could Noah’s flood have been a local or regional flood? Could one family have built a boat similar to the dimensions recorded in the bible? Would a boat of this size be adequate to hold a family, their livestock, a collection of local wild animals, and all the food and water the group would need to survive for a long time? If you can accept that all this is possible, then the story, parable, or allegory also seems to be a reasonable possibility."
Nice dodge. However, your god clearly stated that was going to, and did, kill everyone and everything on earth not on the boat. Yet the Egyptians did not all die. Nor did the Chinese. Nor did the Native Americans. Nor did the Europeans. Nor did the Africans. Nor did the South Americans.
This leaves only 2 possibilites, either your god was wrong and he couldn't kill everyone, or he lied and he didn't kill everyone. Either way, he isn't really that much of a god if he lies, or isn't omnipotent.
@Rodney
The timeline is admitedly a bit imprecise for Flood to Babel.
The placement of the stories in teh Bible indicates that the Babel story happens between Noah's Flood and Abraham.
Since Abraham visited places that spoke different languages, the Tower must've come crashing down before his tale.
Abraham was born around 900 years after Noah's birth.
Therefore, Babel likely happened 1-300 years after the Flood.
But any way you slice it, that isn't enough time for such a drastic population increase from 3 breeding pairs.
@Rodney
The City of Uruk has been unearthed by archaeologists, along with evidence of the King Gilgamesh.
Does that mean he was a demi-god who ruled for 125 years and visited the underworld?
Doc
Thanks that is a good summary. I think Adam was the first to have capacity to personally relate to God and at times drift toward C.S. Lewis thought that Adam was not a physical reality at all.
One of the reasons I believe the Bible is the Word of God is because the Bible does not give a date certain for many key points which is in keeping with the manner in which the truth from God is delivered. These truths are always contained behind a veil or a cloud or even in darkness. The set up is always the perfect maze where the ways of man (reason, logic, scientific facts etc) limited in his composition and known senses to baryonic matter falls into it (the maze)each and every time when approaching God out of any spirit other than with a pure and humble heart.
Given Gods great love for man we are held to higher standard when we know the truth and reject it than when just don’t get it. God is protecting many from a greater consequence.
Topher wrote, "I refuse to believe that nothing some how blew up and created"
And again Topher posts this exact same bullshit. Hell, it was just the other day when he did this same thing. I, again corrected him, explain for he bajillionth time that no one in science makes this assinine claim, and that ot is only ignorant fundiot nutters who say this.
I wonder why this lying sack of shit continues to do this? Does he think his god is pleased with him when he lies like this?
LOL FANTASTIC!!!!
Fred believes the bible is true because it makes absolutely no sense!
Tommy
The evidence of the flood is all around you. When you read any good book you know the author puts chapters in place to tell the story. The Bible is the story of God redeeming His people and shows the clear path. One part of that story is the flood. Very few people are like Noah which is why throughout the Bible we see a remnant that make it through and into the hands of God. In this case Noah. When one breaks through often times the entire family is saved as with Noah. The rest of the world keeps on doing whatever they do because they have been deceived by the wonders of the creation instead of the wonders of the creator.
The physical evidence I have seen regarding the flood has some sharp geologists debating alternate possibilities which I do not have sufficient knowledge to understand. Even physicists have great evidence concerning the volume of water and the capacity of sustaining flood levels. What we know about floods is they are sudden and always do a job of clearing away whatever man has built.
ok, I will spare you the quote of building your house on sand.
Alright, everyone ... got to get to work. (Cue the complaints that I have a job ...)
Have a good one and God bless.
Primewonk
Tropher is simply saying he is not buying into M theory or any other spontaneous creation flux. In short we have no evidence of causation or First cause and to the extent we do it is based on quantum mechanics which is an abstraction of mathematical principles. When it comes to known baryonic matter that is really “nothing”. It is thus a fact that alternate theories of causation are based on “nothing”. You are welcome to redefine “nothing or nothingness” however you want but what Tropher stated is not a lie.
If God is happy with Tropher he will be on little row boat soon enough.
gilgamesh and nimrod might be the same person and they are related to osiris some how also, but i am pretty unfamiliar with that stuff, however I assume that their mythical mimicry was very real and probably was unearthed with their civilizations as such. i didnt really study your question very well if this is off.
i though hard and just realized...........The Tower of Babel has different years it is given. Because the Great Pyramid shaft aims at Thuban in 2170bc many claimed that the Babylon that exists in Egypt is the one Nimrod lived at to build the Great Pyramid. Josephus gives Abram a birth of 2169bc by associating him with it, and his grandson Jacob Israel with Marduk Street of 2009bc. The Tower in Babylon Mesopotamia existed in 2009bc because Marduk Street is aimed at the Tower, not at Marduk Temple.
If you are at the gate, you see the tower over the Marduk temple courtyard wall, and if you are on the Tower you see down the street out the gate. Thus the argument is between Jan 6 sunset solstice and July 10 sunrise solstice. But the argument also includes Thoth 1 which was Jan 8 in 2009bc, and Jan 7 the next 2 years. Likewise, Pamenot (Egyptian July 6 or Persian July 11). I find it to be Noah's 360-day new year (966) on July 8.
Babel was built in 2240bc on Nov 18, it is 130 years of Mars in a span of 128 years (10x 13 year Mars = 13 decades) from 2368bc Oct 1, Noah's 360-day calendar year 602 to year 732.
It cannot be said that the tower was first to be built on that date in 2240bc, yet often they later became the first foundation of any city. Just as in America building the stone or brick church was first.
Affiliations with the tower is the kingship of Babylon which began in 1894bc. This is 476 years after the Flood (2370bc). However, it can be a lunar 475 years as in 19x 25 year egyptian (304m each), or 25x 19 year (235m each). Christian Hippolytus uses these 476 years as Flood 3258bc to calendar 2782bc July 20 Thoth 1.
@fred,
"The physical evidence I have seen regarding the flood has some sharp geologists debating alternate possibilities which I do not have sufficient knowledge to understand. Even physicists have great evidence concerning the volume of water and the capacity of sustaining flood levels."
Realize that I feel obligated to ask for you source for this information.
Saying you have great evidence for something and not providing links, sources, citations, whatever, is worse than saying '... because', or 'God did it', IMO. Because, you are actively trying to legitimize your position with science without providing any science.
ME II
I cannot recall any “secular” support and the support that seems valid is suspect since they are authored by creationists or affiliated with creationist inst-itutions. Examples would be Dr. Hugh Ross and Steven A. Austin, Ph.D. ,
Robert Ballard
Yeah, Gopher, are you so afraid of "hell" that you want to spend eternity with a vindictive petty pr1ck?
Morning Belief Blog denizens! I hope the weekend was good.
I got some writing done this weekend, and a story I'm working on had me thinking about fate and destiny.
Do you believe in destiny? That there is some grand plan and we're all just playing our parts (or failing to play our parts)?
I'd give destiny the same chance of existing as I do a supernatural creator, so as close to "no" as possible without saying "no".
I feel one's destiny is what one wants it to be...do I believe things are preordained? No.
Our choices determine our destiny.
I think destiny is a nuanced word.
For instance, I don't think I am preordained by a divine being who has planned my life for anything. However, destiny is tricky because just simply by birth, you might be destined to do something. If you are born into a farming family you have a really good shot of being a farmer yourself.
I've never understoof how someone who believes in destiny and the idea that a god has already decided how you will end up can also push free will, those things to be at opposites with each other.
I believe in determinism, but not destiny.
Myweightinwords,
We are all predestined to be saved by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Sadly, some choose to reject their destiny.
Destiny is something that can not be escaped or rejected if we are to believe in it at all. That is the point of destiny, is it not?
So where does that put you?
@Robert
You don't even see the contradiction in your own post do you?
@Robert Brown
If we're all predestined for anything, how can we have free will? Furthermore, how can we reject that destiny? It nullifies your statement right off the bat if you believe both that we will all receive gods grace and at the same time not all of us will receive gods grace.
If you take a look at the average person's life, it is hard to believe any destiny is "special" in the grand scheme of things. Go to school, maybe college, job, spouse, kids, retire, die. Most people's lives are the such. So for the few that do extrordinary things, most of us would just be cogs in thier machine.
i live in nebraska and there are salt deposits and salt lakes. our bedrock is full of fossils of sea creatures right next to animals and other air breathing animals, reptiles...............that doesnt make outside of a flood. it had to be a flood, along with possibly an asteroid and all the plates of the earth shifting and causing a flood.
Rodney,
" our bedrock is full of fossils of sea creatures right next to animals and other air breathing animals, reptiles...............that doesnt make outside of a flood."
You don't know anything about paleontology, do you?
Start here... follow some of the reference links... learn something - and quit with the "GOLLLLY-SHUUUCKS!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleontology_in_Nebraska
that web site sounds dumb in my opinion............there was an ocean with whales swimming around and then the ocean dried up and there were suddenly mammals everywhere and all the sea life which decentegrated in the water (there are few fossils int he ocean floors) burried itself as the water suddenly disappeared and the mammals dug wholes in the ground and died suddenly and rock formed around all the mysterious natural burials. and this is our cult religious beliefs.
God is happy that Ken and Barbie are real people now. God bless them.
Pray without ceasing in 2013
Prayer changes things
I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your repeated assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!
I had another conversation in which I was asked to describe the tenets of atheism – ie: if you don't believe in God, what do you believe? So I have began to compile a list, in no particular order and subject to change.
I do not deign to speak for all atheists – just me.
VESTIBULARS – The Notebooks of Doctor Humoladonne Q. Vestibule
The misanthrope is seldom disappointed.
People instinctively do that which they perceive to be least painful.
Belief in the supernatural is not required to live a life of charity, compassion and humility.
Lysdexia is when the word of orders keeps wronging come out.
Facts are sterile, but myths have flavour!
The appearance of intelligence can be as useful as its application.
Darwin's 5 laws apply to both species and societies.
Overwhelming force is the coward's first resort.
Jargon keeps a sinking specialist afloat.
Religious schools teach autotheists how to be persuasive.
The End is always nigh.
Faith is the willing suspension of skepticism in order to accept dogmatic answers.
Many things are unknown, but nothing is unknowable.
Brobdignagian is a big word.
Early indoctrination cannot be ignored.
Your first instinct is probably the right one; that doesn't mean you should trust it.
The tools of statecraft include distraction and anesthetization.
Ho.mo sapiens must better organize their collective knowledge and make it universally accessible.
Try distracting them with something shiny.
Anything can be a problem if you make it one.
A stiff c.ock has no conscience.
Nobility is irrational.
Consensus is not truth, and vice versa.
Belief in the extraordinary, if not supernatural, can be prudent:
If you believe that the rustle in the grass is a dangerous predator when it is just the wind, you are more likely to survive than if you believe that the rustle in the grass is just the wind when it is a dangerous predator. Michael Shermer
Tenet of atheism? = lie
Tenet of atheist ? = liar
All normal decent people already know this.
The only ones fooled by atheism are the so called atheists themselves.
I'm sorry, "truth be told", but your repeated assertions regarding atheism are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL".
Ever time i say a so called atheist is a liar along one comes and proves it ! Thanks hal !
I'm sorry, "truth be told", but your assertion is, again, unfounded. My function is to illuminate unfounded assertions and falsehoods. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
But hal all normal decent people already know you're a liar, you are not even fooling yourself or the other self deluded so called atheists. sadly you are not bright enough to ever see Truth. Thanks again for adding proof to what I say.
I'm sorry, "truth be told", but your assertions are unfounded. Perhaps you can share some data from "normal decent people" who have determined that my truth level assessment is inaccurate. Perhaps then I can help you (and them) discover what has led you to these unfounded assertions.
@Doc Stiff = deplited carbon when done.
Everyone already knows you can't even post a punctuation mark without lying hal, as mentioned before the only one your fooling is your own kind. Keep adding proof ... Thanks.
Wow – looks like TBT has decided not to take on hal's challenge. No surprise there.
Science not spelling
I think you mean depleted carbon.
And everybody knows that truth be told is a flaming asshole. No surprise there.
Richard Cranium
Correct
Blame it on the thumb
never good at spelling to many theres
Doc, what does the 'Q' stand for?
a.k.a. the Q Doc...
(sorry)
Q. What an atheist means when they say "there is no God".
A. No I won't. No, I refuse.
Full Ti.tle:
Doctor Humoladonne Quentin Vestibule, STD
If you're interested, I got my STD at the U of BS.
That's Sacred Theology Doctorate from the University of Buffalo Spit in Saskatchewan.
Still being a pretend American doc... what will you be when you grow up . If you were educated at all you would realize that no real American would give a sh it for the opinion of some third world flunky. You are neither needed or wanted by US. There's your sign.
Mornin', t.b.t. !
Still posting as TubeTop, captain? Poor little troll.
@Cap'n Troll of Many Monikers
You do know that Saskatchewan isn't in the United States, right?
Also, please define your criteria for "third world country".
Third world country...
Saskatchewan fits right in there. There's your sign
capitan america is a wannabe patriot. He thinks he's a tough guy. The only "uniform" he ever wore was when his mommy put on his one piece sleep jammies. There's his sign. Guy probably pees his pants when the big fireworks go off. Sign two.
@Cap'n Troll
The Economist's 2005 ranking listed Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and Ottawain the top 10 most livable cities in the world. The highest-ranked American cities, Cleveland and Pittsburgh, were tied at 26th place.
I ask again for your definition of "third world".
Specific criteria are required to quantify your ascsertion, lest you confirm your status as a bloviating blow-hard.
@Doc
Whoa whoa whoa
I'm sure Sakastchuan is a lovely place, but what does "livable" mean? And how the heck could Cleveland and Pitsburgh make the list? Those places are shi.tholes. Clearly you've never been to San Francisco, the best city in the world and that's ever existed in the history of mankind.
@Chuckles
Personally, I don't consider any city in Saskatchewan to be particularly liveable.
Nothing but wheat fields out there. The land is so flat, you can watch your dog run away for hours.
It's too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer, plus the prairie provinces are plagued with the most evil mosquitos you've ever seen.
I've lived in Toronto for the last decade or so.
When I lived on the west coast, I knew a number of people who emigrated there. The city has quite a reuptation for free-wheelin'
Free-wheelin indeed, there must be something in the water.
lol@ "one piece sleep jammies"
Doc: thanks for the explanation. Funny!
February 12th could be Darwin's Day, but it's already the feast day of St. Julian, patron saint of inn keepers ( and 20 or so other saints). Check into a Motel 6 and put a copy of On the Origin of the Species in every room as penance for whatever sins against human knowledge and logic you may have committed or will commit this year.