February 8th, 2013
10:25 AM ET
Americans reveal their 3 favorite sins
By John Blake, CNN
“Lead me not into temptation. I can find it all by myself.”
That line, taken from the country music song “Lead Me Not,” evokes smiles because it underscores a truth: The struggle against temptation is universal.
A new survey, however, gets specific about the type of temptations most Americans battle against, and shows that men and women seem to wrestle with different vices.
“Temptations and America’s Favorite Sins,” a survey conducted by the Barna Group, a Christian research firm, concludes that the moral struggles that vex most Americans aren’t the salacious acts that drive the plotlines of reality television shows. Most Americans are too worn down or distracted to get snared by those vices, the survey concludes.
The top three sins seducing most Americans: procrastination, overeating and spending too much time on media.
“You would think it would be sex, drugs and rock and roll,” said Todd Hunter, pastor and author of “Our Favorite Sins,” whose book was consulted in conjunction with the survey.
The survey said that 60% of Americans admitted that they’re tempted to worry too much or procrastinate; 55% said they’re tempted to overeat, and 41% said they’re tempted by sloth, or laziness.
The sex, drugs and rock and roll-like vices fell dead last in the temptation categories: 11% of Americans said they were tempted by drug abuse; 9% were tempted by sexually inappropriate contact.
Even young people put sex and drugs way down on their list, according to the survey, which broke down temptations by gender and age. It found that 21% of millennials (born between 1984 and 2002) considered sexually inappropriate behavior their chief temptation. It was the lowest percentage attributed to any vice by millennials. Their top two temptations were worrying too much and procrastination.
The battleground for temptation has also shifted – it’s gone digital, according to David Kinnman, president of Barna Group, which based its survey on 1,021 online interviews with a representative sample of white, African-American and Latinos.
“Temptation has gone virtual, ’’ Kinnman said. “Nearly half of Americans admit to being tempted to use too much media and one in nine admits to expressing their anger digitally.”
Temptation also seems to affect men and women differently – more women said they’re tempted by gossip and overeating, and only 8% of women admitted to being tempted by online pornography versus 28% of men.
Many Americans who admit to being tempted aren’t putting up a big fight. The study said that 59% of Americans admit that they don’t do anything to avoid temptation and half can’t explain why they give into temptation.
Many Americans still can’t explain what sin is, Hunter said. Worrying, for example, is not considered one of the seven deadly sins (pride, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, greed and sloth). Yet survey respondents listed it as one of their top temptations.
“There’s no agreement on what sin is,” Hunter said. “It’s one of the aspects of the world we live in. It’s becoming more relativistic. It’s hard to talk about sin when everyone disagrees about what it is.”
Hunter knows a little bit about temptation. One of his is chocolate. He once shot up to 330 pounds because he overate. He said all temptations start with a desire for something good: tasty food, rest, intimacy. They become “disordered” when they enslave people and spread pain through their lives.
“Disordered desires imprison us,” he wrote in “Our Favorite Sins.” “In the end they give us nothing – not one lasting shred of goodness, freedom, joy, or love.”
Hunter’s advice for staying clear of temptation: fasting, praying and staying out of places and relationships that lead you toward temptation.
For those who aren’t religious, Hunter recommends thinking about sports. He cites the practice habits of superstars like NBA legend Michael Jordan. They practice progress, repeating athletic exercises every day until their body complies.
Little victories lead to big things, Hunter said. In his book, he quoted the legendary college basketball coach John Wooden:
“When you improve a little each day, eventually big things occur. So don’t look for the quick, big improvement. Seek the small improvements one day at a time – that’s the only way progress happens – and when that kind of progress happens, it lasts.”
About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
Truth be told the Bible is a proven and accurate doc ument dealing with ancient Israel and the middle east.
No, it isn't. That you tout it is proof it's nothing of the sort, you lying sack of manure.
Give everyone a roll of toilet paper and a bible.. you'll see that the roll of toilet paper is far more useful.
Truth be Sold,
The babble is nothing more then a collection of goat herder fables from previous religions, massaged thru the ages by unknown writers to keep the masses on their knees.
You have bought into a big ponzi shceme, nothing more.
I respect people who believe in god. Do you think it deserves respect to state beliefs and opinions as proven facts? It's fine to believe in the bible, why over reach and say it has been proven?
No its not.
Azzholes like Robert are just sickening. I have nothing at all against those who believe and live their faith. I have known a few of them. They'd NEVER be here bloviating like Robert Brown. They would be out giving blankets to those sleeping in the cold. They'd be in soup kitchens feeding the hungry. They would be visiting the sick in the hospital and the nursing home who have no family and are dying of loneliness.
Robert, you should be ashamed to call yourself a "Christian." You're nothing of the sort.
Yep. I know what you mean. My christian friends aren't even remotely like these fvcktard pretend christians that are on these blogs.
No, they're not. There are wonderful, giving, loving people in this world who make the effort to love others. Robert ain't one of them, by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, people like him work against god by alienating others, judging their actions, and pronouncing sentence as if they were qualified to judge. They can eat sh!t.
Guys like Robertbrownstreak have some really creepy stuff going on just below the surface.
He sounds just like the fundies I work with, and all of them are creepy.
The fvcktard just stated that the evidence of god's retribution is obvious.
If that were so, any just god would have silenced cretins like Robert the Boob long ago.
It would have been a merciful act–the rest of us would be spared the agony of reading Robby Dobby's idiocy.
Gee I agree with Tom a lot.
BUT again. True. I know some really sweet and sincere Christians. I hate to broad stroke a group but its morons like some of the ones posting here that make it hard not to.
As I said. I have known those who are truly Christian. Robert and his ilk aren't among them.
Reach out to strugglesrs at your place of worship and let them know that they are bound for glory when
they reject fornication. The sin of gay coitus and fornication is now echoing back with horrific consequences.
Recently, toddlers at an elementary school were found engaging in the type of S@x acts performed by
gay fornicators. This is the price we are now paying for a generation of permissiveness and "anything goes"
that we see in the s@xual exhibitionism of gay pride parades.
By lowering the morality bar, the unspeakable act has now become routine with tragic consequences
for confused youth and children.
Again, reach out to the fornicators at your place of worship and lt them know that there is power and
salvation through repentance at the altar.
Let them know that celibacy is now going viral among the formerly unclean fornicators.
Keep your retarded religious nonsense to yourself.
Hysterical old bat...masquerading as a human. I know you, and there is no one more "unclean" than you, literally and figuratively.
Toddlers don't go to elementary school, you fucking lying sack of shit. You sink to such deep levels of depravity yourself when you lie to make your lying point.
Once you start criticizing the s-xual habits of heteros too, then you will BEGIN to have some credibility. Until then, it's all thoughtless hypocrisy.
How did you get the F and the S word thru the filter?
I can't even get the word S_ex thru and you somehow got those?
Very good descriptors of that fundie btw.
Re: filter dodging
She knows some html to get around the filter.
1. Right click on this page (elsewhere than this message box, though)
2. Click on View Page Source
3. Search "Find" her name & that particular post
4. You will see the characters that she used
Cool, I will see if I can recreate that.
Although I would not use those words here. But I am tired of writing a long post only to have it denied by some word like S_ex.
That is pretty interesting.
I did not know that existed, but I don't do much with code and only use computers for internet and some music programs.
Thanks for the heads up.
Gravity is a fact, the various theories of gravity are not facts. Newton's theory describes gravity very accurately for speeds somewhat less than the speed of light. Einstien's theory is better (more accurate over all speeds and has an explanation of why there is gravity), but science can't say it is complete or "proven".
Evolution is a fact. Darwin's theory is pretty good but with time has been shown to be inadequate much like Newton's theory of gravity. That doesn't mean evolution isn't a fact (it is directly observable), it means we don't fully understand the details and all the mechanisms.
You may want to argue that evolution doesn't account for humans, but to base your argument on evolution being false is like saying gravity is false and earth orbits the sun because god wants it that way.
@chad it lost in court Forever
Intelligent Design On Trial NOVA
Thank you to the National Centre For Science Education (NCSE) for providing this information.
I'm not an atheist. I completely believe in God. But I can't make heads or tails of the bible. Never have.
What makes you believe in god?
The old English in the KJV can be kind of tough if you aren’t use to it. I read Moby Dick and Robin Hood when I was around 10 and have never had a problem with old English since. You might try the contemporary English version and some good bible commentaries.
I recommend an interlinear Greek Bible, also. Helps you penetrate some of the embellishments.
You might not have a problem with old English, Booby, but you surely have plenty of problems with modern English. And facts.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
I can probably hold my own with most 8th graders in English. As for facts, here is one that is straight from heaven, God loves even you!
Wow! Eighth graders! What a high standard!
You don't have a clue what god does or doesn't do. You're a sham.
What makes me believe in God, someone asked. I guess because there are "alive" things in the universe. Things that are alive show some sort of awareness. It's just easier for me to think there is "something" rather than "nothing". That and I guess I'd rather think you go on rather than just being dead.
"God even loves you." – you forgot to mention that god hates you Robert.
If the universe could create living self aware beings spontaneously without another agent (god), isn't that even more beautiful?
Truth Be Sold,
When the Roman Empire fell, it had already transitioned to christianity.
Maybe had they kept their old gods they would still have been around.
Ahh, wrong reply button....
The three most damning and detestable sins in America today are atheism, ho mose xuality and abortion. All are lethal and a discredit to any nation they infect.
Then why haven't you been able to name the civilizations that have been "destroyed" by them?
You idiot, Rome didn't fall because of any of those. Did you just fall off the turnip truck, moron?
You mean Rome as in where the Vatican is and from which the Pope controls the Catholic world? People have pointed out before that the Rome of emperors became the Rome of the popes and the RCC. Talk about a golden parachute.
Rome as in Roman Empire.
The Roman Empire didn't fall because of atheism, abortion or gay s3x, azzhole. Get an education, you simp.
Nope. Nope. Nope. The three most damning and detestable sins in America today are: looking women on TVs, looking women on TVs, and looking women on TVs, and that is true in your religion too Amigo!!
Provide evidence that Sodom fell at all. Then provide evidence it fell due to abortion, hom0s3xuality, and atheism. The Bible doesn't count as a credible source of facts, dingus.
Hurry up, captain limpdick. You cannot resist the bait.
Tbt, you are out of your element, and I suspect, out of your mind.
Ancient Rome's GOVERNMENT fell, dumbass. Picked itself up, dusted itself off, and remains a city to this very day...shity example.
He's such an imbecile.
WOW. REALLY??! I would think it would be arrogance, intolerance, indifference and hatred.
go look in a mirror.
He ain't much of a biblical scholar, either.
Yesterday the asshole said TOLERANCE was one of the three. Stupid git.
He's a fvcktard with a burr up his ass about Canadians.
The Roman Empire followed the same downward spiral as all great nations, turn from God, gross immorality, and then political anarchy. God help America.
Good evening, Robert.
You mean we could have a Pope of our own?
Your United States is about 230 years old since it's inception... so god only recently chose your nation to back as the winner?
Sounds like you're a loser.
Robert, you are an idiot. You're not quite as stupid as Turdy, but that's faint praise. Rome didn't fall because of any religious belief or lack thereof. Read something, dip wad.
Hey there Tom,
No, God is very patient and slow to anger, but if we don’t turn back to him as a nation and repent he will judge us too.
Yes and I hope he gives us another few years to turn back to him.
Oh, bull fvcking sh!t, Robby the doofus. You're such a fraud. Knock off your Nostradamus act. It sucks.
"God is slow to anger"? LOL
What other emotions do you know of your "we can not know god"? You pathetic cretins are all the same.
And what will happen when your United States don't?
Seems like your god loves to back losers then.
Really. What manure. If your god were going to smite a nation, why wouldn't he smite China? Iran? Myanmar? You are so beyond dumb it's not even fun to ridicule you.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
Nostradamus? That is funny.
Exactly how am I trying to defraud you? This is the way God has operated in the past.
"This is the way God has operated in the past."
–The more facts that you religious nut bags state about your unknowing god the more you ruin your own point.
How? By pretending you're a Christian. Christians don't do the sort of ass-wackery you're performing on this blog, Robert. They are far too busy doing the work Christ commanded they do: feeding the hungry, giving shelter to the homeless, comforting the sick and the lonely. If that doesn't keep you busy enough to stay away from your ego-boosting here, you're no Christian.
@BobbyB: "but if we don’t turn back to him as a nation and repent he will judge us too"
How do you know God didn't judge us 15 minutes ago and gave us an "A+"? How do you know he didn't judge us 100 years ago with an "A"? Maybe God thinks we've improved since then.
We know a lot of things about God from his word, but there are a lot of things we don’t know.
If we don’t repent as a nation, we go down.
Ya sure Robert.
You can do your can of worms pretend christian mumble junk to boost your own pathetic self worth but those who see you in real life would do myself a favor and take you out permanently.
More bullsh!t from a fvcking azzhole. There is no evidence your "god" even exists, much less that it punishes anyone at all.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
I hope he doesn’t smite any nation, but I am afraid he will.
In answer to the nations you mentioned, I would just say, to whom much is given much is expected.
Oh God I am the american dream
With a spindle up my butt till it makes me scream
An I'll do anything to get ahead
I lay awake nights sayin, thank you, fred!
Oh god, oh god, Im so fantastic!
Thanks to freddie, Im a sexual spastic
And my name is bobby brown
Watch me now, Im goin down,
And my name is bobby brown
Watch me now, Im goin down
"This is the way God has operated in the past."
–The more facts that you religious nut bags state about your unknowing god the more you ruin your own point.
Read your own tripe loser. Figure it out.
Go suck your own dick, Robert. No one else would want to.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
I will agree with you that I am not a “good Christian”. But, I would rather be a Christian than anything else I know.
I am not on here for my ego, I am trying to help those who do not know God.
Sodom ... archaeology...cities discovered in the right location at the south end of the Dead Sea. Records of trading with those same cities discovered.
Robert Brown, you've shown time and time again that the god that you present in your posts would be an excessively vengeful asshole if he existed. Please give your beliefs a more careful, more honest examination. Doing so should help you leave your sicko blood cult Christian delusions behind, if you can reason.
Robert repent aye
You made my rocker fall over I was laughing so hard .
Liar. You're here because it's easy. You're here because you're a lazy son-of-a-bit@ch who can't be bothered to do the real work. You're here because you can sit on your ass in your nice warm house and do no more than bang your digits on a keyboard.
You're a fraud. You're no Christian.
Turdy, you're so lame it's not even fun to ridicule you anymore. Get a girlfriend and stop pestering the goats.
Substi.tute the word judge with punishment. God has punished this nation in the past and we have yet to repent. The ultimate punishment would be if he allowed us to cease to exist as a nation.
And yet again, Robert Brown shows that the "god" of his fairy tales would be a cruel, excessively vengeful asshole if he existed. Robert, please give your beliefs a more careful, more honest examination. Doing so should help you leave your sicko blood cult Christian delusions behind, if you can reason.
People like Robert and Turdy do nothing for their god. If anything, they ought to be fired by him for incompetence. Their recruiting techniques suck dead priests and frogs. They couldn't convince me to join their brigade if they were offering paradise as a reward–that's how repugnant they are.
"I am trying to help those who do not know God."
-That assertion speaks volumes. What do you know?
The psychological aspect of that claim that you're making is like that of a child telling everyone that you've found a snail in your backyard. It all comes right back to "what do you know?"
Here is my self worth, I am nothing without Jesus.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
There is plenty of evidence for God and his judgment.
The arrogance of this ass is beyond description. What part of this fact does Robert the Boob not grasp? People are not convinced by words but by acts. Shut yer trap and go do something for others, you phony baloney. Set an example. Stop telling and start proving by works.
Lazy friggin' jerk.
It isn’t about vengeance. If you run a red light and a policeman pulls you over and writes you a ticket, is his motivation vengeance?
I know for fact that you are worthless. Even with your jeebus. That is nothing new.
If there were evidence, Robert the dolt, you'd have been struck dead long ago.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
I could ask why you are here, but that wouldn’t be nice.
The reason is of course that there are s-c-u-m like you on these blogs that need to be pointed out to others.
That wouldn't stop you, you jerk. "Nice" has nothing to do with you. You aren't "nice" by any definition. You're a sh!thead. I'm here to expose frauds like you for what you are. I'm here because I know you're no Christian. I'm here because I hate hypocrisy and you're a prime pract it ioner.
I know there is a God and I have some ideas of how you could get to know him too.
Ya please re-introduce myself to Zeus. Thanks.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
Have you read the stuff you write?
What convinces people is God. We are called to give out his word, sow the seed. He does the work by making the seed grow.
You imbecile, I don't pretend to be a Christian. You do nothing but. You're a disgrace.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
You’re here to expose frauds?
How would you know if I am a Christian, or not?
How do you know I am a hypocrite?
That's a false analogy, Robert Brown. A constable is not a claimed creator, nor judge and jury, nor executioner, nor torturer.
Again, your bible says repeatedly that your god is vengeful, in the present case, clearly excessively so. He would clearly be a human rights abuser by any reasonable modern standards. Yet again, Robert Brown shows that the "god" of his fairy tales would be a cruel, excessively vengeful asshole if he existed. Robert, please give your beliefs a more careful, more honest examination. Doing so should help you leave your sicko blood cult Christian delusions behind, if you can reason.
Let's have a closer look at some of the demands for horrid actions that are presented as being from the god-asshole that Robert Brown worships, straight from his book of horrors bible:
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
How do I know you're a fraud and a hypocrite, Robert? Because you are HERE instead of where Christ said you should be: among the poor, among the hungry, among the sick, among the lonely. Because you're HERE, boasting about your faith and your understanding, instead of where Christ said you should be: among those who need your immediate help to survive, to be comforted, to be cared for. Because you're here, stroking your own ego, judging a nation, judging individuals and judging behaviors instead of doing as your Christ commanded: setting an example, giving all you have, and loving others unconditionally.
Got anything more, you fraudulent twit?
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
You say I am boasting while I only see it as sharing. You say I am judging while I see examples in the word of God of his judgment and share those. It is important to help the needy and the biggest need is the word of God.
You like the warm fuzzy stuff. You don’t like the truth. That is what makes you angry with me. There is a God who will forgive sin, if his forgiveness is rejected his holiness requires him to judge sin. You don’t want to hear about the consequences.
You think I am on here for me? You said up above that you know Christians who are loving and giving. All the examples you gave are great things and if I do all of those things for someone and let them die and go to hell, did I really love them? “Rescue the perishing”, doesn’t just mean physically.
Your words ring false, Robby. You're nothing but a fraud who posts here for attention. You don't give a rat's ass about my soul or anyone else's, you lying sack of sh!t. You're sickening.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
I really do post to try and help. If you won’t accept that there is nothing I can say to change your mind. Think what you will. At the very least I hope you will remember that God loves you.
I've read your posts, Robert. If you're an example of what a god's love does for a person, I don't want any part of it. I'll believe in the kind of spirit that guided the people I respected and loved, not what some ass hole on a blog yammers about.
And another comment...
Who ever would have thought a story about an unclothed lady and the devil in the woods would be allowed in church?
..i think it was a garden.
Yea its the stuff of happy dreams for children.
Lots of incest and rape in that same book being taught to the kiddies.
yep. Not to mention men having many wives. typical.
If it were in the woods, it'd be "Twilight"
Plotline: true, that.
Is that a snake in your fig tree, or are you just happy to see me?
Based on the evidence and speculation below, is it more likely that old and new testaments are A) revealed truth or B) human constructions?
For me, it seems like you have to do mental gymnastics (or blind faith) to go with A, while B is completely aligned with facts. Doesn't mean new facts won't become known, but it seems like the more new facts are found, the more B continues to be upheld while A gets more and more tenuous.
The books of the bible are human constructions. In several cases they contain claims that they come directly from God or a messenger of God (not by inspiration). So, they may be lies. We know they were compiled and edited by people, as well. In some cases edited to suit some obvious purpose.
Tom is right...they were entirely compiled by people. Which makes them subject to error. They were also compiled with the purpose of backing up the doctrines of the men that decided which book was acceptable and which was not.
Christians believe they were God breathed to men and then written and complied over years. Thus they tend to ALSO believe that no error happened in the final product that they hold in their hands. I tend to disagree. A book compiled over years and then the final product decided by a group of men is subject to major major error.
Soooo that brings into question absolute truth that is based solely on scripture. There are so many holes....so many deep black holes. lol
the bible mentions unicorns several times. also satyrs and dragons. talking snakes and talking donkeys. silly, silly stuff.
Oooo yeaaaa I forgot about the talking donkey!
Once again biffyfink shows a total ignorance when it comes to biblical interpretation. So is it accidental that it continues to use the English to discredit the original Hebrew or since it has been shown its error so many times is it more likely it is deliberate lies.
Oh, you poor thing, captain azzwhizzle. You just can't catch a break. You get slammed every time you post. Deservedly.
What slam? If you are referring to your post tom we've long since determined you to be totally useless. Still missing on the opportunity to off yourself? You would never be missed.
Sure. That's why you are compelled to respond to my every post.
Yer a ball-less loser.
there isn't a debate unless dont have faith
I have proof of God that no one can top, for the rest of my life, the verdict is in . God is alive. so is the devil.
now now boys...play nice in the playground....
Im headed to church to praise God.!!!!! i am taking a friend today.
Of course there were no unicorns.....but there were talking snakes and a talking donkey. SOoo yea....
What is your proof? Feeling god is not proof. Human feelings are notoriously faulty. They feel real, but often are wrong.
Does your friend know?
it didnt have to be a snake, it could have been a reptilian creature.
the bombardker beetle shoots fire out.
it could have been a dragon because they go on their belly too.
fact is the devil is alive . peace i'm out
CC, I think his *friend* may be inflatable.
Austin, do you really consider the devil a fact?
my proof has been many experiences with special revelation in dreams. dreams about the future, dreams about knowledge given that was never before fathomed by me, demonic revelation, revelation of scripture before reading it, and the transcription of my thoughts one night directly into someone elses dream the same night and they woke up and told me
these thing happen AFTER you get saved , dont expect it for a sign. you arent in a position to make any demands (dont want my experience to be a stumbling block for you. ) just ask for faith.
i know for a fact yes.
Gee, I dreamed that I was on a bus that could float and it took me to Mars.
Doofus, dreams aren't evidence of a thing except that your subconscious is expressing itself.
No, you don't "know". You believe.
But hey, who doesn't like an inflatable friend every once in a while. Not me of course....
I dreamed my toothbrush is made of high temperature superconductors and this made it possible for me to communicate with God while on a Chinese submarine with someone who looked a bit like Maturin from Master and Commander, but with scales. What does it mean, Austin.
Austin, do you have a distinction between knowing something and believing something?
i cant lie, I was simply called
to the Way the Truth and the Life.
Jesus Christ, His Holy Spirit is a truth gearing spirit that reveals Himself within the heart/mind of man. spiritual world manifests itself in many ways. off to church ill be back .
TTTOO, I want some of whatever you took before you hit the sack.
haha it means ease off on the purple kush.
Turdy, are you still trying to put forth the theory that parts of the Bible lost something in translation?? Seriously?? You are SO full of shit...that, of course, is your pat excuse for why the Bible makes so little sense..."It was translated wrong".
Turdy can't even manage to get through these posts without moving his lips. That's why it's taking him eons to respond.
His mommy's contacting ChildFind to try to get him some help.
I leave for 1/2 hr and look how much I've missed.
Jesus was born in hell!!
Actually, if you consider the behavior and character of God, as well as what he says and demands in his Bible, you will realize that if he exists, he is Satan.
@Damocles : There is no reason to thump your chest ... that your way is the only way.
Is that what we ALL tend to do? We all think our way is the right way. And we want to talk about it. Tell me, do you believe in relative truth or absolute truth?
Ahhh truth. Well there is the truth for me (I have to be at work at X time), there is the truth for someone else (they have to have the presentation ready before X time) and there is the truth for all (1+1 = 2 all the Xing time). And yes, we all tend to thump our chests, get bent out of shape from time to time and maybe even hurl the occasional insult.
lol, deist, lol
@Damocles : Well there is the truth for me (I have to be at work at X time), there is the truth for someone else (they have to have the presentation ready before X time) and there is the truth for all (1+1 = 2 all the Xing time).
So, where does relative truth end and absolute truth begin?
Oh, but see, they are all absolute truths, even if it's only for one person.
@Damocles : but see, they are all absolute truths, even if it's only for one person.
So, you believe in absolute truth. So, why do you object to someone teaching another about that absolute truth?
There are many absolute truths @lives4him just as there are many universal truths.
However, in regards to 'spiritual' things you are not allowed to tout your perceived truth as absolute unless backed up by actual fact. I am not saying God does or doesn't exist. But I am saying you don't determine truth for everyone (where Christians miss the mark). What is truth for one isn't truth for another. You can only say what is truth to YOU. And then it is your job (by virtue of what your bible claims) to love others regardless.
Sorry it took me so long to respond, pizza and a rousing viewing of Ghostbusters II makes for a sleepy Damo. You are mistaking opinion for absolute truth. In my examples, these are not opinions, these are truths.
Is it possible for Chad to be any more absurd?
I think so. He could slip into lionlylamb-ville. Chad's intelligent, just strong convictions which he's willing to lie to himself and us for.
....meanwhile i'll show off my smarts by ending a sentence with a preposition... DOH!
It's the "well, well," "LOL," and other little snarks that make him a real turd, though.
Can you imagine Chad in a live debate?
A live debate would be.... interesting. Think I'd have to bring a brick baseball bat though. Temptation is a b!tch.
Chad and L4H here goes L4H below with the talking snake and Adam and Eve popcorn time.
Yes and this is one thing he can prove.
Why do you say the creature was a talking snake ?
@End Religion –
Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.
–Winston Churchill (attributed)
...and, of course, I forgot the quotation marks. DOH!
lol, deist, lol
wrong spot above ..
Topher said so
Well, as for Chad possibly becoming more absurd, well, there's absurd, and then, there are spoonfuls of coconuts to rest your tangents on.
While everyone is analyzing the Bible, let's hear about when God created Nod. Since God started humans from a male only (Eve was just a rib), could "Steve" have been the first man in Nod?
– Genesis 4:16-17 “So Cain went out from the Lord's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden."
@Observer : let's hear about when God created Nod. Since God started humans from a male only (Eve was just a rib), could "Steve" have been the first man in Nod?
Adam and Eve were the first couple, but they had other sons and daughters too. So, "Steve" would have been one of their sons (except for the English name 😉 ).
So please tell us about the children that grew up with Cain and Abel, but the Bible didn't bother to mention.
So Cain married one of his sisters in the land of Nod? Hmmm. Biblical incest. The first episode, anyway.
On high the heavens were not yet named- Mesopotamian creation myth
MESOPOTAMIAN CHRISTIAN GENESIS 1
6 generations of Gods 6 days of creation
1. Primeval chaos Lahmu 1. without form or void
2. Beginning of light Lahamu 2. let there be light
3. Creation of firmament Ansher 3. made firmament
4. Appearance of dry land Kishar 4. divided the waters
5. Creation of luminaries Anu 5. let there be light
6. Creation of man Ea 6. creation of man
7. Deity rests Marduk 7. God rests
Known as part of GILGAMESH epic
Recited for over 3000 years, predates ABRAHAM
As early as 2000BCE was know in at least 4 languages
A fragment found at Megiddo reveals it was known in Palestine in 14th century BCE
Traces of epic found later in Trojan ballads and poetry of Homer
In structure and numbers creation epic the same as Gen;1
Marduk creates man to serve Gods as slaves, God creates man in own image
Early Bible writers thought Mesopotamian's were good scientists, bad moralists
So Gilgamesh used either the written or spoken Hebrew account to write his novel ?
Aww. Now Stupid4Him has to blacklist you.
@just wondering : So Gilgamesh used either the written or spoken Hebrew account to write his novel ?
You're on the right track, but scholars are almost certain that Hebrew wasn't a language when the flood happened. Scholars think this is why Moses translated the original tablets into Hebrew approximately 1425 BC. BTW – the earlier 1445 BC date is the estimated date of the Exodus from Egypt and Moses was probably too busy getting the Israelites out of Egypt to be translating the tablets into Hebrew. 🙂
Ummm, no. The Gilgamesh story is written in Sumerian, not Hebrew.
Moses didn't exist. The exodus never happened.
I forgot to mention that while part of Gilgamesh does predate Moses, the tablet on the flood post-dates Moses.
Moses based his creation myth off the one he learned as a child growing up as a prince of Egypt and tutored in all of it's religious doctrine and laws which enabled him to draft new ones for the Israelites.
"In the beginning there was only the swirling watery chaos, called Nu. Out of these chaotic waters rose Atum (Adam anyone?) , the sun god of the city of Heliopolis. It is believed that he created himself, using his thoughts and will. In the watery chaos, Atum found no place on which to stand. In the place where he first appeared, he created a hill. This hill was said to be the spot on which the temple of Heliopolis was built. Other interpretations find that Atum was the hill. In this interpretation Atum may represent the fertile, life giving hills left behind by the receding waters of the Nile's annual flood. As early as the Fifth-Dynasty, we find Atum identified with the sun god Ra. By this time his emergence on the primeval hill can be interpreted as the coming of light into the darkness of Nu. As the god of the rising sun, his name is Khepri.
. . . . .His next act was to create more gods. Because he was all alone in the world, without a mate, he made a union with his shadow. (Eve taken from Adams rib?) This unusual way of procreating offspring was not considered strange to the Egyptians. We find Atum regarded as a bise.xual god and was sometimes called the 'Great He-She'. The Egyptians were thus able to present Atum as the one and only creative force in the universe. According to some texts the birth of Atum's children took place on the primeval hill." – egyptartsite.com
It's obviously not identical as any Christian is sure to point out, but some of the similarities are too much to be refuted as a foundation for Moses later work.
@Damocles : Ummm, no. The Gilgamesh story is written in Sumerian, not Hebrew.
This wouldn't prevent the version that we could call the Hebrew version from being used as a reference. Books are translated all the time.
What in the world are you talking about? From Hebrew to Sumerian to Hebrew? Didn't you state that Hebrew wasn't a language? Dodn't you also state that the material on which Hebrew was written on tended towards rapid decay?
The Gilgamesh story comes before the biblical flood story.
"This wouldn't prevent the version that we could call the Hebrew version from being used as a reference. Books are translated all the time." lol.
It's almost not fair anymore to make fun of L4H, it feel's like i'm teasing someone who is disabled, playing keep away from the paraplegic...
@Damocles : What in the world are you talking about? From Hebrew to Sumerian to Hebrew? Didn't you state that Hebrew wasn't a language? Dodn't you also state that the material on which Hebrew was written on tended towards rapid decay? The Gilgamesh story comes before the biblical flood story.
It is likely that Hebrew wasn't a language at the time of the flood. It is also possible that Sumerian may not have been the language at the time of the flood, but it is more likely. However, it very likely that stories Gilgamesh and Noah came from the same source – regardless of the language used.
Second, the Hebrews used sheepskins for their documents because it was cheaper to obtain and easier to carry. However, scholars don't depend upon just the extant manuscripts – which is why they use the higher criticism method to date a historical work.
Third, the tablet in the Gilgamesh concerning the flood wasn't a part of the oldest poems. Scholars believe this was added between 1300 – 1000 BC when the Akkadian version was compiled.
LYING IS NOT SIN. MERCIFUL ALLAH GOT INTO TROUBLE FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH, SO HE MADE ALL LIES HOLY.
What the? Well glad lying is okay.
I am curious if your fibbing about covering your eyes when there are naked woman on tv.....tsk tsk....peeker.
LOOKING WOMEN ON TVs ARE SIN TOO. I ALWAYS MAKE SURE TO COVER MY EYES.
I cover my eyes too but only one at a time, is that ok?
Just above he said lying is ok.
Looks like someone is in trouble for peeking. snicker.
A little p-ssy, more p-ssy, way too much p-ssy
Clearly the New Testament succeeded the Greek mythology.
"I have the biggest pubic mound in the whole world. What is that? It's huge! Literally, I could deliver a sermon off this mound."
Hypothesis 1: the old and new testaments are the revealed word of god.
Hypothesis 2: the old and new testaments borrowed concepts, themes, and moral lessons from previous cultural writings.
The stories of Gilgamesh were written centuries before the bible. It describes a flood, a righteous man who built a boat, contained all the animals, etc.
Greek mythology written centuries before the New Testament tells of Dionysis, son of Zeus (god), born of a virgin human woman, healed the sick and turned water into wine, was killed and resurrected as an immortal.
There are many more examples.
Judge for yourself.
Could you give a published date for the first copy of the Bible and
Or better yet the location where the first original account was made?
No publishers back then. No scholars would dispute the precedences stated.
Clearly the New Testament succeeded the Greek mythology.
From what I found, genesis was written ~1445 BC. The story of gilgamesh was written ~1800 BC.
"Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."......... That is very early in the history of man.
The earliest creation story is also Sumerian, written ~2100 BC. Has a flood story in it too.
There is truth in that, I definitely bruised my head a few times getting seed together.
@Bostontola : The stories of Gilgamesh were written centuries before the bible.
The story of Gilgamesh came from Uruk, which arose shortly after the Biblical Worldwide Flood (around 2450 BC). While this story predates the extant manuscripts of the Bible, it doesn't predate the original text of Genesis. The extant manuscripts of the Bible were written on sheepskins – which wearout / decay very quickly compared to clay tablets. So, you've got an apples-oranges comparison here.
@Bostontola : Greek mythology written centuries before the New Testament tells of Dionysis, son of Zeus (god), born of a virgin human woman, healed the sick and turned water into wine, was killed and resurrected as an immortal.
Not quite. While Greek mythology was written prior to the New Testament, the attributes you've linked to Zeus only became tied to him about 200 AD.
@Bostontola : There are many more examples.
I'm sure, but when you get ALL the facts, your examples fail.
@Bostontola : No publishers back then. No scholars would dispute the precedences stated.
Scholars would object simlar to my objections.
@Damocles : From what I found, genesis was written ~1445 BC.
Moses re-copied 12 tablets into what we now call Genesis about 1425 BC.
Looks like some of you are stuck on "written history". Before the internet people had time to pass down oral history, gaze at the stars, and procreate.
Young earth creationism does not work
Your assertions have no basis. All evidence supports my account. You suppose there were earlier versions.
I would accept an argument that the truth was revealed to earlier people and then subsequently to the Jews. But you didn't make that case.
Science, you're back! Hey dude how big is a neanderthal? our size?
Dionysis predates the birth of Christ, how could the Christ story be floating around in oral stories before Christ was born. On the other hand, the Dionysis story was there prior to Christ and clearly some of the dramatic elements were borrowed for excellent effect.
The earliest Greek stories I could find date to ~800 BC.
I have a feeling that if Gilgamesh could have been proven to have been written ~4000 BC, the christian stories would strangely be thought to have been written ~4200 BC. Keeping up with the neighbors and all that.
Oh, you are so very right. If the story of Gilgamesh is ancient in its written form, could it not be even more ancient in its verbal form?
Strong ties between Egyptian creation stories and Hebrew. Passed down, changed a little for a more 'there is a special deity just for us' flavor.
So you claim two or more texts concerning the same event with no accurate way of determining which is closer to the event?
If the event happened to you or your family could it be considered a more accurate account of what actually happened?
@Bostontola : Your assertions have no basis. All evidence supports my account. You suppose there were earlier versions.
The text of Genesis is broken up by phrases like the following. This indicates it comes from an earlier source.
2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
5:1 This is the written account of Adam’s line.
6:9 This is the account of Noah.
If you align the Bbilical record of ~6100 years ago, with the earliest writing (5300 BC), this ties very closely with Adam's "bragging" of having the new technology called "writing".
Genesis 1:1 – 2:4a
Genesis 2:4b – 5:1a
Genesis 5:1b – 6:9a
Genesis 6:9b – 10:1a
Genesis 10:1b – 11:10a
Genesis 11:10b – 11:27a
Genesis 11:27b – 25:19a
Genesis 25:12 – 25:18
Genesis 25:19b – 37:2a
Genesis 36:1 – 36:43
Genesis 37:2b Exodus 1:6
Just wondering, the timing between christ's birth and the Dionysis story is accurate. As for the others, I know of no scholarly paper which questions precedent of sumarian over biblical, and many which support it.
L4H, that is interpretation, not evidence.
Sorry to jump in, but how does Live4Him come up with "the Bbilical record of ~6100 years ago"?
Do I, Damocles, have a way of dating these texts? Nope.
@Bostontola : I would accept an argument that the truth was revealed to earlier people and then subsequently to the Jews. But you didn't make that case.
Well, technically, you're correct here. The term Hebrew came from 'apriu (means nomad or shepherd). This ties to the time of Abraham (a nomadic shepherd). The term Israelite comes from the grandson of Abraham, whose son was Judah – where the term Jew comes from. However, this is all contained in the Biblical account which traces its history to the beginning – Something that Gilgamesh doesn't do.
Who knows, it ties in with what I was saying that if any text can be dated before a christian creation story, said christian creation stories will somehow suddenly get older.
How do you determine 1st edition of any ancient texts? Do we have original 1st editions?
@Tom, Tom, the Other One : Sorry to jump in, but how does Live4Him come up with "the Bbilical record of ~6100 years ago"?
This was traced by James Ussher (sp?) about 150 years ago. But here's the results of his work. The formatting probably won't look right, but...
Gen 5 ...... Adam to Shem .......... 1556
Gen 11...... Shem to Egypt ...........680
Exo 12:4.... yrs in Egypt ........... 430
1Ki 6:1..... Exodus-4th Yr Solomon... 480
Scholars ... 4th Yr Solomon ..........968 BC
Calendar ... Christ .................2013
Total .............................. 6127
@just wondering : How do you determine 1st edition of any ancient texts? Do we have original 1st editions?
Not before the time of Christ. The best preserved manuscripts (other than clay tablets and stone) are from the Bible. Other than the Bible, there is usually between 300-600 years after the author died and the earliest extant manuscripts. I'd have to reference my books before I could give exact numbers, so let me know if this is important to you.
Suspicions about possible plagiarism of the gospel writings were already significant enough in early Christianity that some early apologists came up with the idea that Satan had written the earlier stories in advance to fool everyone. It's not plagiarism – it was something Satan did. Don't look at that man behind the curtain – I am OZ!
Say that what is considered 1st edition is what was found first. Older texts may well indeed exist, but we haven't found them. Think like if you found a book 1000 years from now called Lightning, by Dean Koontz. Well since this is the first book you found by him and you are unaware he wrote other books, you may consider it a 1st edition.
@Bostontola : L4H, that is interpretation, not evidence.
It is for scholars. IT is known as higher criticism or the historical-critical method.
Not responding to anyone in particular, but if something takes me 60 seconds to accomplish, I do not say it took me 50 seconds, then 15, then 20, then 18 and arrive at a grand total of 103 seconds to do a minute task.
@Damocles : Say that what is considered 1st edition is what was found first.
That fails the historical-critical test
It passes every test until you find something that you can date as older. Flash forward 1000 years, here I am with my Koontz novel. It is, as far as I can tell, the 1st edition of his writing. Until I set out to find other things he was written and find those books, it remains the 1st edition. Granted, clues within the book can lead me to understand he wrote other books both before and after this one, but until I find them, they are slightly meaningless.
@Damocles : It passes every test until you find something that you can date as older.
If a person in the story or as an author is a historical figure (rather than fictional) and that person has been dead for hundreds of years, then the higher criticism method would declare this a copy rather than the original.
If there really is a good god out there I think that he/she/it would be quite able to impart the necessary information to me (and everyone). I do not need to be "more blessed" than your legendary Thomas. If this god is as smart, powerful, noble, fair, just and loving as you proclaim he/she/it will do so.
You are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
It's a shame that your otherwise seemingly good mind has been hijacked by those myths.
Seeing as how Koontz might be considered a historical figure and he is the author, it still doesn't make any difference. Can you assume other copies exist and that it's not original? Certainly. But that's assumption. It is *the 1st edition of his works that you posses*.
@Doubting Thomas : It's a shame that your otherwise seemingly good mind has been hijacked by those myths.
I was once like you – a doubter. My question to you is ... What are you going to do about it? Are you going to assume you have the truth and do nothing more? Or are you going to research this issue?
If the result of your "research" is the nonsensical dreck you've been posting, LivtoLie, you'd better go learn how to do a better job of researching. You continue to cut and paste drivel about matter and energy and in the very first few sentences, you make the huge leap to the "conclusion" that GAWDDIDIT.
That's not research. That's just laziness.
See, this is retarded. 'Oh you can't possibly have researched the issue because you don't believe what I do'. I'm well aware that my use of the word retarded may put me on the slippery slope of being not responded to, but come on.
"It's a shame that your otherwise seemingly good mind has been hijacked by those myths."
Be careful what you wish for. People who can't weigh evidence objectively for their biases would be likely to do this in whatever field they dabbled in. If these folks weren’t wasting their time on this stuff they'd likely be out there arguing with "evidence" of how vaccines cause autism or the wonders of crystals as medicine some other idea they got into their heads and couldn’t let go.
Ah yes, and I was once a believer, like you (for nearly 50 years!). I finally had to admit that there is no-one up/out/over/under/around there, and frankly, (and I don't intend to be mean) "research" such as yours only makes the prospect seem more unlikely.
"People who can't weigh evidence objectively for their biases would be likely to do this in whatever field they dabbled in."
Yes, Sara, you do have a good point there!
So there is no real proof of any kind that Gilgamash predates the Bible ?
All objective evidence says Gilgamesh predates the bible, proof is not possible as you know. All we can rely on is the evidence, lots that Gilgamesh predates the bible, absolutely none that the bible predates Gilgamesh.
DRAWING MUHAMMED IS THE WORST KIND OF A SIN. YOU GO TO HELL STRAIGHT.
Not before you:)
If there are bad women in hell I'm in!