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Pope Benedict makes first appearance since resignation news
February 13th, 2013
05:26 AM ET

Pope Benedict makes first appearance since resignation news

By Laura Smith-Spark, CNN

Huge crowds in the Vatican cheered Pope Benedict XVI Wednesday as he made his first public appearance since announcing his resignation at the end of the month.

He thanked the Roman Catholic faithful in several languages and said it was not appropriate for him to continue as pope.

He appeared tired but not visibly unwell as he sat and read his remarks off several sheets of paper.

Benedict will also celebrate an Ash Wednesday mass marking the beginning of Lent at St. Peter's Basilica in the afternoon.

FULL STORY
- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (601 Responses)
  1. Rainer Braendlein

    The most heavy sin of the pope is that he doesn't preach the pure gospel, God's Gospel of his Son Jesus Christ.

    Jesus Christ died and rose for us. Jesus sacrifice was an atonement but also a work of redemption. Through faith and sacramental baptism we get metaphysically connected with Christ's sacrifice, we die for the sin, and enter Christ. Day by day we overcome the lust of our sinful flesh by these two promises: dead to sin; being in Christ. If we daily remember Christ's sacrifice, we keep the faith, and become more holy day by day. By this means we will come through at Judgement Day.

    I was a Catholic up to my 21th year of age but have never been told the true gospel by a Catholic priest, or by Daddy Rat. Daddy Rat you claim you would be a bishop but in fact you are a greedy jack-as-s.

    February 13, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      You've been less abrasive in the past, Rainer. Have you been exposed to lead? Could you have that checked?

      February 13, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • Akira

      Nonsense. All you had to do was READ the Bible. Catholicism never denied you that opportunity.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
  2. Rainer Braendlein

    Daddy Rat (the pope) is guilty of having molested many children even if he has not committed the crimes personally (maybe he has). The pope is the demonic head of the Catholic Church, and every priest is a limb of the pope's body. If one limb committs a crime, he also does it as a limb of the pope's body. What next, Daddy Rat?

    February 13, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • Akira

      I should think you would be proud of your national copatriot. I guess you're not.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Google Translator

      Translation: "My invisible friend is better than your invisible friend."

      February 13, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Joey Ratzinger is guilty of thinking that Christians need him as a representative of Christ on earth to intercede for them. That's about it. Otherwise he's just another guy with a common delusion. One that you share with him as near as I can tell, Rainer.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • CrossCountry

      well then I guess that's no different than Word of Faith pastors and ministers that tarnish the collective of christianity. Perverse, greedy imbicils that breathe fire from the pulpits and demand a tenth.

      All dirty deeds my friend. Dirty dirty deeds.

      February 13, 2013 at 7:16 pm |
  3. Rainer Braendlein

    I guess the pope is very proud to be a Bavarian but Bavaria has always been the most backward region of Germany. Hitler was brought up in Munich, and Himmler was a farmer from Trudering/Munich. The ba-stard Richard Wagner was promoted by a Bavarina King who ran up very high debts for Bavaria almost destroying it. Germany would be happier if Bavaria would be detached from it. Bavaria has always protected Catholicism, and is still doing it. How backward a country which protects a most backward religion.

    February 13, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • Thomas D.

      Nice bigotry, Rainy!

      I guess "Love thy neighbor" is optional for people like Rainer.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
  4. Rainer Braendlein

    The pope is the worst hypocrite on earth. I guess if we would knew all his sins we would vomit. Don't get fooled by his "holy" glamour, in fact he is the forerunner of the Antichrist.

    February 13, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • ohno....

      Rainer is going to burn for this one, you judgmental hypocrite.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • Wren

      They worship the same God you and I worship.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
  5. Chick-a-dee

    Pastoral Statement on Penance and Abstinence
    A Statement Issued by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops November 18, 1966

    http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-resources/lent/us-bishops-pastoral-statement-on-penance-and-abstinence.cfm

    February 13, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Wren

      That is why I look forward to the Lenten season.A great opportunity to discipline oneself by fasting and also praying, abstaining for all those acitivities that are a distraction to spiritual growth.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Wren
      If you look so forward to lent, Why don't you give up those things all the time. You can fast and give up any manner of thing, why do you need just one "season"?
      Just imagine how much more spiritual you could be.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • December

      Because that wouldn't be Lent. That would be a lifetime sacrifice.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • Tommy

      This year for lent I am giving up giving up stuff for lent.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Wren

      I give up on a few of my favourite things during Lent just because it reminds me of the supreme sacrifice Christ made for me on the cross. Jesus fasted and prayed for 40 days and 40 nights, although I cannot fast without food for 40 days I may fast and stay away from some of my favourite food.
      I may stay away from FB which time I can spend in prayer.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • Religion is not healthy for children nor any living thing

      Wren, fasting for 40 days and 40 nights will result in severe malnutrition, then death. Why don't YOU try it and see?

      February 13, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Alvin Plurp, Accordian King of Nazareth

      Until fairy recently, religious people would whip and burn themselves to honor Jesus. Heck, there are still people who actually get nailed to crosses on Good Friday. Fasting is part of this weird tradition.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      There is a heavy emphasis on self-denial as a path to righteousness – this stemming from Matthew 16:24 in which Jesus says "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."
      Strange folk like the Flagellants probably took that one a little bit too far....

      February 13, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
  6. Flint Fredstone

    21 straight stories on the Pope/Catholicism. That's 20 too many.

    February 13, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • sam stone

      yabba dabba do

      February 13, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
  7. Jim

    Found some interesting stuff today while investigating the resignation.

    Along with st. malachy's prophecy saying the pope after benedict will be the last pope:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

    I found some interesting stuff on St. Hildegard. She talked about a great comet in during the time of the last pope. We will be able to see two comets this year: Comet Ison and Comet Pan-starrs. Heres a link about Benedicts beautification of Hildegard. Notice this was published a year before the two comets were discovered.

    http://www.summorumpontificum.net/2011/12/pope-to-name-hildegard-of-bingen-as.html

    February 13, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Ooohhh goody,

      More apocolypse claims from the cult.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Benedicts BEAUTIFICATION of Hildegard? Did Benedict just do a mani-pedi, or did he do the whole make-over for Hildegard?

      February 13, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • End Religion

      Jim, isn't there a certain number of these constant apocalypse claims that come and go before you stop and think maybe they're all just a fabricated crock of turds?

      February 13, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • midwest rail

      The Malachy "prophecies are nonsense.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      St. Malachy: Also known as St. Malarky... Irish, you know!

      February 13, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Chick-a-dee

      EWTN Catholic Q&A
      Prophecy of St. Malachy Revisited
      Question from Benedict on 04-22-2005:

      I find the answer you gave to the question on this topic below unsatisfying. Despite being found well after the death of St. Malachy, the prophecy has been surprisingly accurate, e.g., when calling Pope John Paul II "de labore solis", which well before his election was assumed to refer to a solar eclipse. John Paul II was born on the day of a solar eclipse. Pope Benedict XVI is, according to the prophecy, "gloria olivae", the glory of the olive, which was always held to be a reference to Benedict or the Benedictines. Joseph Ratzinger's choice of name makes me wonder if he was thinking of the prophecy when he chose his name. Hard to imagine he would not know about that prophecy.

      And you did not comment on the fact that the prophecy only lists one more name after "Gloria olivae", the pope described as "Petrus Romanus." Some say there is no explicit mention that there will be no additional popes between "Gloria olivae" and "Petrus Romanus." What reason do they give for assuming that there will be more popes than those on the list? That assumption is not obvious, and in need of justification.
      Answer by Colin B. Donovan, STL on 04-25-2005:

      It seems to have been more accurate for the last few popes than the ones between 1590 and 1958. That may only be because we are alive during these times and able to find more convincing connections owing to our greater familiarity with these popes over previous ones.

      I seriously doubt that Joseph Ratzinger intended any allusion whatsover to the Malachy list by the choice of his papal name. The explanation that he gave to the Cardinals is simple and sufficient, without resorting to alleged prophecy. Nor did Pope John Paul II take it into account, apparently, when he spoke of a Civilization of Love and the new evangelization of the Third Millennium. Nor, did Our Lady of Fatima seem to consider it when speaking of an era of peace following the trial of the world caused by Russian communism, or John Bosco or other approved mystics who likewise refer or allude to a coming era of history under various names. (see my FAQ on the Endtimes.)

      So, ought a Catholic to give credence to a questionable prophecy which the Church has never sanctioned over popes, and saints, and blesseds, and apparitions that she has approved? Probably not a good idea. But if one MUST attempt a reconciliation, it may simply be that "the era of peace" is the silence in the list between Glory of the Olive and the Pope of the time of the antichrist (Peter the Roman), a silence which some have suggested can also be found in Scripture (Rev. 8:1), before the unleashing of the events of the End. Since we cannot know how long that period lasts, we can be comforted by the words of the present pontiff, who once gave his opinion that we are NOT at the end of the world.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Jim

      I am not making any claims. I am just presenting information that somehow fits together like a jigsaw puzzle. Thats what i find interesting.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • End Religion

      Jim, it fits together because every religious puzzle piece is conveniently square. You can put it together any way that makes sense to you. It's also like a Rorschach test in that it is meaningless until you want to see some meaning in it.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
  8. Religious Mythology 101

    Jesus is just one more in a long line:

    Horus:
    Born of a virgin, Isis. Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star. Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” An angel tells Jesus’ father to: “Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucified, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.

    Attis of Phrygia:
    Attis was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana. He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind. His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers. He was both the Divine Son and the Father. On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth. He descended into the underworld. After three days, Attis was resurrected.

    Zoroaster/Zarathustra
    Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.” He was baptized in a river. In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom. He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil. He began his ministry at age 30. Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.” He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man. He taught about heaven and hell, and revealed mysteries, including resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse. He had a sacred cup or grail. He was slain. His religion had a eucharist. He was the “Word made flesh.” Zoroaster’s followers expected a “second coming” in the virgin-born Saoshynt or Savior, who is to come in 2341 AD and begin his ministry at age 30, ushering in a golden age.

    Glycon
    In the middle of the 100s AD, out along the south coast of the Black Sea, Glycon was the son of the God Apollo, who: came to Earth through a miraculous birth, was the Earthly manifestation of divinity, came to earth in fulfillment of divine prophecy, gave his chief believer the power of prophecy, gave believers the power to speak in tongues, performed miracles, healed the sick, and raised the dead.

    Heracles
    Heracles is the Son of a god (Zeus). It is recorded that Zeus is both the father and great-great- great grandfather of Heracles, just as Jesus is essentially his own grandpa, being both “The root and offspring of David” (Revelation 22:16) as he is part of the triune God which is the father of Adam and eventually of Jesus. Both are doubly related to the Supreme God.

    Diodorus writes that, “For as regards the magnitude of the deeds which he accomplished it is generally agreed that Heracles has been handed down as one who surpassed all men of whom memory from the beginning of time has brought down an account; consequently it is a difficult attainment to report each one of his deeds in a worthy manner and to present a record which shall be on a level with labours so great, the magnitude of which won for him the prize of immortality.”

    Jesus is also said to have done a very large number of good works. John 21:25 says that: “Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.”

    Hera tries to kill Heracles as an infant by sending two serpents after him, yet Heracles survives by strangling them. This parallels Herod’s slaughter of the innocents in an attempt to kill Jesus (Matthew 2:13-16).
    Heracles makes a descent into Hades and returns from it with Theseus and Peirithoüs, just as Jesus descends into the “lower parts of the earth” or Hades (Ephesians 4:7-8); Though Jesus does not bring anyone up from it. Heracles’ body is not found and he is assumed to have been taken by the gods: “After this, when the companions of Iolaüs came to gather up the bones of Heracles and found not a single bone anywhere, they assumed that, in accordance with the words of the oracle, he had passed from among men into the company of the gods.”

    Romulus
    Romulus is born of a vestal virgin, which was a priestess of the hearth god Vesta sworn to celibacy. His mother claims that the divine impregnated her, yet this is not believed by the King. Romulus and his twin brother, Remus, are tossed in the river and left for dead. (A “slaughter of the innocents” tale which parallels that of Matthew 2:13-16). Romulus is hailed as the son of god. He is “snatched away to heaven” by a whirlwind (It is assumed that the gods took him), and he makes post mortem appearances. In his work Numa Pompilius, Plutarch records that there was a darkness covering the earth before his death (Just as there was during Jesus’ death according to Mark 15:33). He also states that Romulus is to be known afterwards as ‘Quirinus’; A god which belonged to the Archiac Triad (a “triple deity” similar to the concept of the Trinity).

    Odysseus
    Homeric tales about Odysseus emphasize his suffering life; just as in Mark Jesus said that he, too, would suffer greatly. Odysseus is a carpenter like Jesus, and he wants to return his home just as Jesus wants to be welcomed in his native home and later to God’s home in Jerusalem. Odysseus is plagued with unfaithful and dim-witted companions who display tragic flaws. They stupidly open a magic bag of wind while Odysseus sleeps and release terrible tempests which prevent their return home. These sailors are comparable to Jesus’ disciples, who disbelieve Jesus, ask foolish questions, and show general ignorance about everything. It’s amazing that either Odysseus or Jesus ever manage to accomplish anything, given the companions they have, but this simply demonstrates the power and ability of the one true leader who has a divine mandate to lead the people out of darkness and into a brighter future.

    Krishna
    According to Bhagavata Purana some believe that Krishna was born without a sexual union, by “mental transmission” from the mind of Vasudeva into the womb of Devaki, his mother. Christ and Krishna were called both God and the Son of God. Both were sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man. Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity. Krishna’s adoptive human father was also a carpenter. A spirit or ghost was their actual father. Krishna and Jesus were of royal descent. Both were visited at birth by wise men and shepherds, guided by a star. Angels in both cases issued a warning that the local dictator planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. The parents fled. Mary and Joseph stayed in Muturea; Krishna’s parents stayed in Mathura. Both Christ and Krishna withdrew to the wilderness as adults, and fasted. Both were identified as “the seed of the woman bruising the serpent’s head.” Jesus was called “the lion of the tribe of Judah.” Krishna was called “the lion of the tribe of Saki.” Both claimed: “I am the Resurrection.” Both were “without sin.” Both were god-men: being considered both human and divine. Both performed many miracles, including the healing of disease. One of the first miracles that both performed was to make a leper whole. Each cured “all manner of diseases.” Both cast out indwelling demons, and raised the dead. Both selected disciples to spread his teachings. Both were meek, and merciful. Both were criticized for associating with sinners. Both celebrated a last supper. Both forgave his enemies. Both were crucified and both were resurrected.

    Buddha
    Both went to their temples at the age of twelve, where they are said to have astonished all with their wisdom. Both supposedly fasted in solitude for a long time: Buddha for forty–seven days and Jesus for forty. Both wandered to a fig tree at the conclusion of their fasts. Both were about the same age when they began their public ministry:
    “When he [Buddha] went again to the garden he saw a monk who was calm, tranquil, self–possessed, serene, and dignified. The prince, determined to become such a monk, was led to make the great renunciation. At the time he was twenty–nine years of age… “Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age.” (Luke 3:23). Both were tempted by the “devil” at the beginning of their ministry: To Buddha, he said: “Go not forth to adopt a religious life but return to your kingdom, and in seven days you shall become emperor of the world, riding over the four continents.” To Jesus, he said: “All these [kingdoms of the world] I will give you, if you fall down and worship me” (Matthew 4:9). Buddha answered the “devil”: “Get you away from me.”

    Jesus responded: “…be gone, Satan!” (Matthew 4:10). Both strove to establish a kingdom of heaven on earth. According to the Somadeva (a Buddhist holy book), a Buddhist ascetic’s eye once offended him, so he plucked it out and cast it away. Jesus said: “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, and throw it away;” (Matthew 5:29).

    Mithra
    Was born of a virgin on December 25th, in a cave, attended by shepherds
    Was considered a great traveling teacher and master
    Had 12 companions or disciples
    Promised his followers immortality
    Performed miracles
    Sacrificed himself for world peace
    Was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again
    Was celebrated each year at the time of His resurrection (later to become Easter)
    Was called "the Good Shepherd"
    Was identified with both the Lamb and the Lion
    Was considered to be the "Way, the Truth and the Light," and the "Logos," "Redeemer," "Savior" and "Messiah."
    Celebrated Sunday as His sacred day (also known as the "Lord's Day,")
    Celebrated a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper"

    Dionysus
    Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles. He “rode in a triumphal procession on an ass.” He was a sacred king killed and eaten in a Eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification. Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25. He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.” He was identified with the Ram or Lamb. His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.

    February 13, 2013 at 11:35 am |
    • VanHagar

      Not sure why you keep trying to align Jesus with a birth date of December 25–you'd be hard pressed to find any Christian who (a) believes he was actually born that day; and/or (b) that it matters at all. Its not biblical, so its totally irrelevant.

      February 13, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
    • December

      @Religious Mythology 101

      "Horus: Born of a virgin, Isis" NOPE!!!!

      The comic movie Religulous (2008) and the book The Christ Conspiracy claim that Horus was born of a virgin though an ‘immaculate conception.’

      Egyptian texts demonstrate that Horus’ mother was the goddess Isis, and not a human virgin.

      Horus was conceived when Isis resurrected the dismembered god Osiris and had intercourse with him, which precludes the idea of virginity, and certainly parthenogenesis.

      February 13, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Your arguments are off point. Even if there are comparisons to be drawn, that it not evidence that Christ did not exist nor is it evidence that he is not everything described in the Bible. More compelling is that, had your comparative gods really existed, had they really done the things you assign to them, would they not still be worshiped or, at least, honored? Christ is still worshiped today, 2000 years later, and his appearance came at a time when his ministry should not have succeeded. The Jewish culture was against it. The Roman government trampled on the believers. One might say its a miracle Christianity, a faith first argued for by 12 cowards (the Bible is clear that the disciples were not heroes), even exists. Yet, here we are, as strong as ever.

      February 13, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Van hagar
      January...named after the roman godess Janus
      The names of the days of the week...named for the sun, the moon and 5 other gods.
      The names of the planets....named after gods.
      The moons around those planets...named for gods and other mthical characters.
      Saturn...the car company.
      Many towns (Jupiter FLA) named after gods.

      Why do you think that gods other than your own are not honored?

      You violate the first commandment EVERY time you mention any of the above...good luck with that.

      February 13, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Richard...nice stretch...but that's all it is. If you can convince me that the names of planets, streets, towns, anything else TODAY is in worship and acknowledgement of their true existence, then I will reject Christ. Good luck.

      February 13, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Van Hagar,

      None of what you list makes any of it true. The real question is was Jesus god. Nothing he said would point to that conclusion. The actions that are claimed (miracles) are nothing but hearsay.

      February 13, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      The moths of the year
      January....Janus
      March...Mars
      April....possibly but unsure named for aphrodite
      May...Named for Maia
      June...named after Juno.

      tuesday...in the latin marde or Mardi...named for Mars
      wednesday...mercredi...named for mercury
      thursday....thors day
      friday...in the latin named for Jupiter
      satruday...named for Saturn

      Why did they do this?
      To honor the gods...and we still honor these gods to this day...Are these gods real? Did those who worshipped them believe they are real?
      Did the people who worshipped the thousands of gods men have made not believe their gods were real?...Are they?
      Do you not see the correlation?...If history is any guide, you will be just another one of the billions of people who believed whole heartedly in their gods, but time shows, they do not exist.

      February 13, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Correction
      Thursday...thor's day, and Jupiter
      Friday named for Venus

      February 13, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • Zeus is God

      I worship Zeus to this very day, so I guess you have to reject Christ now.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Blessed...all history (to the extent the actual witnesses can no longer testify)...is based on hearsay...that doesn't make it untrue or unreliable. Hearsay is a rule of evidence in place to allow an opposing side an opportunity to cross-examine the declarant (with certain exceptions)...its a matter of fairness, not of legitimacy.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Zeus...no you don't.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Richard Cranium,

      You are quite correct.

      Here is another list, showing the ancient deities' connections:

      Every week (52 times per year) in English-speaking places we have:
      Tuesday = Tiu's day (Norse god)
      Wednesday = Woden's day (Norse god)
      Thursday = Thor's day (Norse god)
      Friday = Frigga's (Freya's) day (Norse goddess)
      Saturday = Saturn's day (Roman god)
      And every year entire months dedicated to:
      January = in honor of Janus (Roman god)
      February = Roman purification rite, februa
      March = in honor of Mars (Roman god)
      April = in honor of Aphrodite (Greek goddess)
      May = in honor of Maia (Roman goddess)
      June = in honor of Juno (Roman goddess)

      The ancient calendar makers from the Church left these in to induce the old-timey believers to feel comfortable. I suppose they could have made: Marksday, Paulsday, Polycarpsday and (horror of horrors, spelling-wise) Chrysostomsday!

      February 13, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • fred

      Richard Cranium
      I doubt Christians worshiped these gods and Saul of Tarsus put all the Greek gods in perspective when he contrasted the living God with the dead man made gods.
      In addition take note that at a minimum God has been worshiped 6,000 years based only on key heads of Hebrew families recorded by the Hebrew themselves. It most likely is a much longer period of time but we do know the minimum.
      Take note that God as revealed to us through the Bible remains the primary acknowledged creator and focus of worship today. 6-8 billion people since Neanderthal have worshiped the creator who’s attributes fit the God revealed in the Bible.
      I suggest you check your calendar as it is the Day of the Lord February 13, 2013 for just about everyone. You may be godless but you cannot escape God.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • End Religion

      vanhagar, there are still Norse religion adherents. Please don't ever utter the name of any day of the week again or risk eternity in hell.
      http://www.religionfacts.com/a-z-religion-index/asatru.htm

      February 13, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Zeus is God

      So you got me, but you can't prove with any certanity that someone somewhere doesn't still worship those gods.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Van Hagar
      Say good bye to your Jesus.
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/01/religion.uk
      http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695237521/Inmate-sues-for-Norse-god-worship.html?pg=all
      http://askville.amazon.com/America-worship-ancient-Greek-Roman-gods/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=3832807

      All are examples of ancient gods being worshipped today...time to renounce your faith.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • Religious Mythology 101

      It is fun reading the responses to this post. It drives the point home that religion is subjective and built on legends. Every culture has them. Humans are not very creative in that regard it seems.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      fred,

      Re: Year of Our Lord (A.D.)

      The B.C./A.D. dating system was the brainchild of a monk named Dionysius in the 6th century. The Church was very powerful in those days and controlled many aspects of society, including politics, economics, literature and history-writing... still, his dating system took hundreds of years (nearly 1000) to be inst-ituted world-wide. Many cultures still keep their ancient calendars going on the side.

      It is not evidence that any "Lord" actually visited Earth.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @VanHagar

      It's interesting that you will presume to actually know what other people worship. Are you unaware that the Greek government now officially recognizes rituals pertaining to the ancient Greek gods? People still worship them, and to say otherwise shows your ignorance, and your arrogance.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Answer

      @fred

      Calling atheists 'godless' is a compliment. We thank you for your appreciation of who we are.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      And there goes the moronic fred's same old appeal to popularity. It shows why he's on here in the first place. I bet he thinks the more people he can convince (or scare with moronic supernatural threats that can't be demonstrated to be true), then it will reinforce his own beliefs. Only the truly insecure needs to rely on numbers to validate their irrational positions.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "Blessed...all history (to the extent the actual witnesses can no longer testify)...is based on hearsay...that doesn't make it untrue or unreliable."

      Van Hagar,

      I agree, but when hearsay is the ONLY verification of historical claims and cannot be cross referenced with other sources of information it is automatically suspect. When you add in the supernatural aspects of a claim it is further suspect to the point that without corroborating evidence it is not reasonable to accept such claims as being true. Any omniscient being would know this, and so if such a being based rewards and punishments on the belief of such claims, that being would be immoral and unreasonable. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So now lets see if Jesus imparted any wisdom on mankind that a) we did not have before and b) can be verified as knowledge that was not available at the time but has since been proven to be true. No on both counts. The reasonable conclusion is, that there is no reason to think or believe Jesus was devine.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • fred

      A Frayed Knot
      You can justify godlessness in many ways and erect all sorts of manmade rules so you never need to acknowledge the truth. Like a sign on the road that says falling rock but you were never hit by one and no one knows of anyone that was hit by a rock on that section. The sign was put up after a rock fell just as AD was put up after the rock was a stumbling block to non believers. The warning still stands.
      That Cross where Christ showed the love of God remains the most known act of love in the world. Jesus remains the most influential figure in all history. Not a single president of the greatest superpower ever known to mankind has been placed in office without a hand on the Bible or elected by people endowed by their creator as expressed by the unanimous signatures of the founders in the Declaration of Independence. With 80% of the world population acknowledging this creation was not a spontaneous accident they look up in worship as did the Neanderthal.
      Perhaps God knew what He was doing.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • fred

      Answer
      I have friends and relatives that are godless. Some are the nicest people I know. I can only imagine how much more they would add to the world and their families if they knew they were part of Gods creation and purpose for existence.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Awww poor fred can't actually post logic, so he goes with more idiocy. We need new commercials.

      "This is your brain"
      "This is your brain on religion" (Smash the model with a Bible), and have fred superimposed afterward.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguest
      “Only the truly insecure needs to rely on numbers to validate their irrational positions.”
      =>my dear philosophical naturalism addict you really must move beyond the substance that rules your thoughts. Naturalism betrays your chance for eternal survival as it only deals with the material. Just how rational is your thought? 80% of the herd is running towards God while you are alone without awareness of the eternal. According to your naturalism which evolved member of the herd is most likely to be eaten by a lion?

      February 13, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "That Cross where Christ showed the love of God remains the most known act of love in the world. Jesus remains the most influential figure in all history."

      That is becuase the Christ myth has been spread via the fist, the sword and the gun.
      Historically, anyone who disagreed was charged with heresy, blasphemy or some other such nonsense which was used to justify their arrest, exile, torture and/or execution.
      For 1500 years, Christians gouged out eyes, slit tongues, stretched, crushed and broke limbs, stabbed, disemboweled, hung and burnt alive those who dared to disagree with Jesus Christ's message of universal love.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      fred,

      Sorry, your "Beware of falling rocks" analogy fails. One can look and see rocks next to/above the highway, and loose anchoring soil is evident.

      Re: U.S. Presidents swearing on The Bible:

      - Theodore Roosevelt did not use a Bible when taking the oath in 1901.
      - John Quincy Adams swore on a book of law.
      - Lyndon B. Johnson was sworn in on a Roman Catholic missal on Air Force One.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Wow that's even more moronic than normal. Not only do you not address the single point you quoted, you merely reiterate your original stupidity.
      Try actually posting something relevant, and logically sound and valid. Oh wait, it's you. All you can give are unproven and unjustified assertions and other such bullshit. Truly pathetic fred.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • William

      "my dear philosophical naturalism addict you really must move beyond the substance that rules your thoughts. Naturalism betrays your chance for eternal survival as it only deals with the material. Just how rational is your thought? 80% of the herd is running towards God while you are alone without awareness of the eternal. According to your naturalism which evolved member of the herd is most likely to be eaten by a lion?"

      Fred your spiritualism is only in your thoughts, hence you are actually addicted to philosophical naturalism.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "80% of the herd is running towards God while you are alone without awareness of the eternal."

      fred,

      First, 80% of the population has been wrong about a great many things throughout history, that is an argument from popularity and is by definition fallacious.

      Second, claiming you are "aware" of the eternal without being able to demonstrat the eternal leaves you with noting but a claim.

      Third, citing 80% as running towards god and yet the 80% believe in diametrically oppossed gods leaves them scattering all over the place instead of all being in agreement as you dishonestly insinuate.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • fred

      Doc
      Stalin, Mao, Muslims and others have given it their best yet the Cross and Jerusalem stand high above the godless and the sons of Abraham.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      How about you stop being a pathetic little tard and actually address what people post you stupid fuck. Your stupid bullshit is so incredibly transparent. Wait...keep being stupid fred, it's a great advertisement for the dangers of religion to your thought processes.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Pete

      "Stalin, Mao, Muslims and others have given it their best yet the Cross and Jerusalem stand high above the godless and the sons of Abraham."

      Since Christians only make up 30% of the people on this planet this statement is not true. Also the fastest growing religion right now is Islam.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      fred,

      Name something specific to christianity and/or is original to christianity that can be demonstrated as being universally recognized as moral.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • fred

      Pete
      For Pete’s sake 51% of the world worships the God of Abraham and we still live under a predominate western world view with the rest of religions adopting afterlife positions based on the attributes of God. It may not be called God, Christ, the Law of the Prophets but we live under it. Jerusalem remains the center of world anxiety with the decedents of Abrahams two sons (Isaac and Ishmael) locked in the power struggle God said would continue until the end of days. This was recorded by Moses in 1440 BC in Genesis.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Are you just physically incapable of actually posting anything logical or even relevant? Let's not talk about factual because we all know the answer to that.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • fred

      Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "Name something specific to christianity and/or is original to christianity that can be demonstrated as being universally recognized as moral."
      You say thou shalt not kill and I say if you hate your brother you are guilty. Hate is immoral and a sin thus it is recognized univerasally that not to hate is moral.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • Hubert

      fred

      The "don't kill" rule is not original to Christianity.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      LOL Oh shiit that's fucking hilarious! Fred the fucking moron thinks that hate being bad was original to christianity!

      February 13, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Pete

      "For Pete’s sake 51% of the world worships the God of Abraham "

      Cite your source if you can fred.

      Percentage of Christians Worldwide:
      32% of the world's population is considered to be Christian.
      Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life

      February 13, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • LOL!

      "51% of the world worships the God of Abraham and we still live under a predominate western world view with the rest of religions adopting afterlife positions based on the attributes of God. It may not be called God, Christ, the Law of the Prophets but we live under it."

      It may not be called God, Christ.... LOL! LOL! Talk about trying to stretch the truth...wait...lying is a sin.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "You say thou shalt not kill and I say if you hate your brother you are guilty. Hate is immoral and a sin thus it is recognized univerasally that not to hate is moral."

      @fred,

      Hate is an emotion and a thought. Hate is in no way univerally recognized as being immoral. The idea that hate is a negative is not original to christianity. You failed, try again.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "the rest of religions adopting afterlife positions based on the attributes of God"
      Now that is just plain wrong.
      Even other Abrahamics dont' agree! Jewish people dont' believe in Hell.
      Hindu don't believe in heaven or hell and neither do Buddhists.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • fred

      Blessed are the Cheesemakers
      “First, 80% of the population has been wrong about a great many things throughout history, that is an argument from popularity and is by definition fallacious.”
      =>keeping it in context I was referring to herd behavior in the animal kingdom as a natural selection characteristic that allows predators to spot the weak. Argument from popularity is great in the classroom but worthless in the real world. Marketing agencies herd clients because they take advantage of the animal in us. Well that animal my not know why it worships or worships wrong but it does.
      “Second, claiming you are "aware" of the eternal without being able to demonstrat the eternal leaves you with noting but a claim.”
      =>are you suggesting the possibility of eternity is not self evident and all that exists is our known linear time line?
      “citing 80% as running towards god and yet the 80% believe in diametrically oppossed gods leaves them scattering all over the place”
      =>your argument only holds if existence is limited to sequential events or affect. God is not of or limited to the sequential thus they are not scattered but joining in a common eternity.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      You're just so pathetic. You'll jump from one moronic assertion to the other, and not give any corroboration to anything you say. You're just employing the same fallacies over and over. Do us all a favor, never teach any children. Children don't deserve to be taught by people with no concept of reality like you.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • fred

      Doc
      As to specifics you would be correct. However the attributes of God in relationship with man is one of creator and creation. Implications are that behavior in this lifetime determines that which is outside of our lifetime. You can go to heaven, you can go to hell, you can recycle or you can achieve nothingness.
      I was being sloppy in lumping religions outside the two big ones.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • Martha

      "your argument only holds if existence is limited to sequential events or affect. God is not of or limited to the sequential thus they are not scattered but joining in a common eternity."

      That is not true, no one will be allowed in the eternal kingdom if they first don't come through Christ. Anyone who doesn't believe in the God of the Bible and accepts Christ will not be welcomed.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Answer

      Pathetic religious dolts like fred are a joy to watch. XD

      February 13, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • fred

      Blessed are the Cheesemakers
      Christ sacrificed His own life on the cross so all may live. How about:
      One life for many is moral
      True love gives life over death that is moral
      Forgiving those who sin against you is moral
      Christ had to die so the Holy Spirit could reveal the truth that is moral
      Christ rose from the dead so that all who believe can have life eternal, that is moral

      February 13, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • Alvin Plurp, Accordian King of Nazareth

      Fred likes to use his imagination.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • fred

      Martha
      no, Jesus died for all not just some. You are free to reject any gift that Christ has offered you. If the implications of your choice keeps you from eternal unity with God that is on you. I can choose to get drunk and run over a bunch of kids yet there consequences and some are moral.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Brian

      "Christ sacrificed His own life on the cross so all may live. How about:
      One life for many is moral
      True love gives life over death that is moral
      Forgiving those who sin against you is moral
      Christ had to die so the Holy Spirit could reveal the truth that is moral
      Christ rose from the dead so that all who believe can have life eternal, that is moral"

      Many God's claim to sarafice one for the many, it all turned out to be a lie – so it wasn't moral.

      "True love gives life over death that is moral" True love can't give life but a person can sacrifice them selves to save another, that makes them moral but it doesn't make them a god.

      "Christ had to die so the Holy Spirit could reveal the truth that is moral" No lying is immoral.

      "Christ rose from the dead so that all who believe can have life eternal, that is moral" So did many other Gods in human history that we know are all lies, which again something based on a lie is immoral.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • December

      Fred is actually doing alright. I don't see him resorting to name calling or derogatory insults, which shows some character.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • Martha

      fred, Christ is the only way to get to eternal life. You are lumping all other religions into Christianity but you can't do that if they do not choose to believe in Christ and his sacrifice then they will not be living in eternity.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • Answer

      ===So many stupid points that you made fred.

      So many emotional attachments that you wanted from your delusion. So pitiful.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • LOL!

      "Fred is actually doing alright. I don't see him resorting to name calling or derogatory insults, which shows some character."

      Then you must be lacking.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • Answer

      Why are you religious people so inclined to use your emotional conditioning to appeal to people?

      February 13, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • Hubert

      @Answer

      That is easy. Religious beliefs are not logically held, they are emotionally held. While religious beliefs are not logical, they often fill emotional desires.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • December

      @Then you must be lacking.

      Unhappy people like other people to be unhappy, too.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Answer

      @Hubert

      I agree with you. It's like all through their lifetime that they've been told that your trust in your parents love for you isn't enough. That you're better off to trust in a delusion because you've been told there's a higher form of love.

      They can't even prove it and they've been condition to expect that it is indeed the case. You religious people can't trust in yourselves can you? Broken by religion and given a lie to keep you begging.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Answer

      @December

      So that's your line of thinking? That you as the christian are having a better life? That you're happier?

      Can you prove it?

      February 13, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • Dr.Phil

      "Unhappy people like other people to be unhappy, too."

      No, egotistical people want others to be unhappy so they can feel better about themselves. Unfortunately, it's all masking how highly insecure they are in reality.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • fred

      Martha
      Jesus did say I am the way the truth and life. Jesus was the full reflection of the Glory of God. Certainly you are not going to go wrong if you follow the model set by Jesus. But, the way is not through Jesus the man but God. We are assured by Christ that no one intended to be with God eternally would fail to get on the right path. I don’t trust myself, my knowledge (or lack thereof) or anything other than the love of God to do that which works out for the best for the biggest number of people possible.
      If God is who He claims then God is more than capable. God claims to be holy. Gods attributes of perfect holiness is referred to as a burning holiness. How holy and pure….even the seraphim cover their eyes. Perfect love combined with perfect holiness always produces the best possible outcome for the greatest number of people.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • December

      > So that's your line of thinking? That you as the christian are having a better life? That you're happier?

      > Can you prove it?

      @Answer

      Nope, not at all. I didn't say that.

      I'm saying miserable people like to make other people feel miserable.

      It doesn't matter if they are Christian or atheist.

      I'm saying miserable Christians like to make other people feel miserable.

      I'm saying miserable atheists like to make other people feel miserable.

      There are people calling names and posting insults on here that sound miserable.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Martha

      You have to believe Christ died on the cross for your sins. You have to believe what he said about God. All other religions do not believe in Christ's sacrifice, therefore they will not be joining God in eternity.

      John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • Answer

      Let's trim out the useless blather and see what words are used by religious people all the time..

      ====
      truth – full reflection – Glory – not going to go wrong – follow – are assured -eternally -right path.

      I don’t trust myself , my knowledge (or lack thereof) or anything other than the love – works out for the best .
      – claims – claims to be holy. – perfect holiness -burning holiness.

      – holy and pure – Perfect love combined with perfect holiness

      ==Quite revealing in your desires.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • December

      "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

      Can Jesus bring other people to the father that are not Christians? Why couldn't he? It is up to him. Not us.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • Alex

      God says over and over that He alone is the one true God.

      Likewise, all the prophets of other religions are false prophets. Jesus said, “All who came before me were thieves and robbers” (John 10:8). They were wolves in sheep’s clothing (Matt. 7:15). They did not get their messages from God, and therefore they cannot lead us to God. In fact, they only lead away from God. This applies to their writings as well (the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, etc.). God Himself said, “If they do not speak according to this Word [the Bible], it is because they have no light in them” (Isa. 8:20). Simply put, one cannot know the one true God by reading the religious texts of non-Christian religions. Why? Because they are lies and frauds. We know God only through reading God’s true book, the Bible.

      So, then, “Comparative Religion” is wrong to assert that “All religions are basically the same.” Such a claim is utter nonsense. Islam and Judaism believe in one God; Hinduism believes in many gods; while Buddhism believes all is God. They contradict each other and so cannot all be true. However, there is a sense in which they are all alike. They are all alike false religions. Some are closer to truth than others. But none of them lead to God. They all lead to Hell. Paul warned of false religions, including perversions of true Christianity, in Gal. 1:9, “If any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed!” False religions are accursed and bring down God’s damnation on all who follow them.

      The good news is that God does have a way of salvation. He has given us a bridge whereby we can know Him. Jesus Christ is that bridge. Are Christians dogmatic to say that Jesus is the only way to God? Yes. We are dogmatic because God is dogmatic. Why do we believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to God? Because God says so.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • Answer

      John 14:6 <<-notice the fine cut and paste of just the portion of text in their bible they think makes all the difference in any argument.

      Fine cherry picking.

      February 13, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • Alex

      "Can Jesus bring other people to the father that are not Christians? Why couldn't he?"

      A Christian is someone who has decided to entrust his or her life to Jesus Christ. A Christian trusts Christ for forgiveness of sin, a right standing before God, and guidance in life.

      Christian's are sometimes referred to as "born again" because Jesus said that one must be born of the water (the physical birth) and the Spirit:

      To be born again–born of the Spirit–a person must place his or her trust in Jesus Christ The Spirit of Jesus Christ actually comes to dwell within the new Christian, giving newness of life–His life. This is not found in any other religions.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • Answer

      "This is not found in any other religions."

      ==Would you care to be wrong on your claims?

      February 13, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • December

      Jesus has been telling his disciples he has to leave them. They don't understand. At all.

      Thomas asked a question to Jesus:

      “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

      Jesus answered to Thomas:

      “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

      February 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • Hubert

      Alex

      Many religions claim that they are the one true religion, and that all other religions are false. No religion can demonstrate the validity of either of these claims. The fact that Christianity claims to be the only true religion, and to worship the only true god, means absolutely nothing.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • fred

      Brian
      “Many God's claim to sarafice one for the many, it all turned out to be a lie – so it wasn't moral.”
      =>I was asked about Christ who did sacrifice and many were saved. Not a lie
      You can claim that we have no proof that those saved by Christ are not one with the Father as Christ is. This argument you would lose because even you will be one with your father when you die regardless if there is or is not God.
      As to any specific individual being one with God that eternal life is dependent upon the existence of God as revealed to us. We will not see and cannot prove that truth on our sequential time line.

      “True love can't give life”
      =>all you need to do is observe true love and you will see life exploding even to the point of tears.

      “a person can sacrifice them selves to save another, that makes them moral but it doesn't make them a god. “
      =>correct, Jesus was the full reflection of the Glory of God. Jesus the man was not god.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Answer

      "From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

      ==The same goes for Bob.

      "If you see Bob then you'll know Bob."

      February 13, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Alex

      "“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”"

      That's right the way to get to know God is through being born again through Jesus Christ, then you get to know the father because by believing in Christ all our sins are washed away. There is no other way your sins are cleansed except through Christ. You are trying to say that is true in other religions?

      February 13, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
    • Alex

      "Jesus the man was not god."

      fred you are an anti-christ.TheGod the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are each equally and eternally the one true God — is admittedly difficult to comprehend, and yet is the very foundation of Christian truth. Both Old and New Testaments teach the Unity and the Trinity.

      Jesus even state “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).

      February 13, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • Answer

      "Ya you can trust only me because I am god. I am the way and the truth but I don't have to show you. I am the alpha and omega because I told you that I am. So trust me."

      ===Ya okies.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Alex,
      "There is no other way your sins are cleansed except through Christ. You are trying to say that is true in other religions?"

      Yup - others say it too. Example:

      O ye who believe! Turn to Allah with sincere repentance, in the hope that your Lord will remove from you your ills and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow...
      —Quran , Sura 66 (Al-Tahrim), ayah 08

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repentance_in_Islam#In_the_Quran

      February 13, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • fred

      Martha
      You remind me of Martha in Luke 10:41 so concerned about details you could not see Christ in your midst.
      The Bible makes it clear you are to seek God while He is near.
      Luke 23:39-43 is a clear answer to your question. The criminal that went to paradise with Christ did not profess a specific religion. All he did was to rebuke the mocking voice of the criminal at the side of Christ then saying to Christ “we deserve this you do not, please remember me”. That’s it

      Hint. it is the att-itude of the soul not works of man.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Answer

      Martha says: John 14:6

      Fred counters with: Luke 10:41, then cuts to only portions of Luke 23:39-43

      February 13, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • December

      God's ways are always bigger and better than our ways.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • Answer

      December says "believe in big daddy"

      February 13, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Johnny Guitar

      fred, Alex, Martha, and December cannot agree on something basic like how to get into heaven. Makes you wonder why God would write such a incomprehensible, contradictory book. He easily could have been clearer, and a real god would have been clearer.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
    • December

      An incorrect answer is technically still an answer. Yea. It is just wrong.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
    • December

      "how to get into heaven. "

      That's not what were talking about.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Johnny

      I've already gone over this with December. He gets uncomfortable with the fact that the god he worships would send 2/3rds of the present day plus countless souls before us to hell because they don't believe in jesus. It's just sort of sad that December would rather ignore a big part about his religion because he finds it distatesful.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
    • Alex

      " All he did was to rebuke the mocking voice of the criminal at the side of Christ then saying to Christ “we deserve this you do not, please remember me”. That’s it"

      He was believed in Christ at that moment. It's further proof you have to believe in Christ's sacrifice in order to spend eternity with God.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • Alex

      "Yup – others say it too. Example:

      O ye who believe! Turn to Allah with sincere repentance, in the hope that your Lord will remove from you your ills and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow...
      —Quran , Sura 66 (Al-Tahrim), ayah 08"

      Allah and Christ are not the same.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • December

      @Johnny

      Chuckles likes to jump to conlusions and attempt to force upon me his limited understanding of Jesus Christ and what he did.

      It never works.

      I worship Jesus Christ. Not religion.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Pete

      Well fred see even the Christians don't back you up on your 50% crap. You failed.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:38 pm |
    • fred

      Alex
      It really does not matter as to redemption or salvation because "the way" Jesus referred to has nothing to do with excessive knowledge of the Trinity. Jesus the man was the full reflection of the Glory of God. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. When Jesus the man was baptised the word that spoke the creation into being was the word that said "you are my son whom I love". I do not think you are speaking about the physical as God is not of substance that can be measured or visible without faith (i.e. Jesus was baryonic matter which is a created thing not the creator). The incarnation imparted that which is of God into Jesus but did not alter the physical.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • Johnny Guitar

      Why did you address that to me, December? It has nothing at all to do with what I said.

      If you actually understood what the word "religion" means, you would know it is impossible to say you worship Jesus but not religion. They are, by definition, one and the same.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Alex,
      "Allah and Christ are not the same."

      Duh. The point is that other religions have their fantasy being(s) and magic rules for a sure path to the Enchanted Afterlife... and there is not a shred of verified evidence that any of them are true - not yours either.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • December

      @Johnny Guitar

      That was meant to be @Chuckles, sorry.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • December

      Chuckles seems to think that Jesus is like a magical puppy in the pound.

      If you choose him he’ll be yours.

      And with your personal magical puppy will come all the warm feelings and love and blessings you can imagine as you float to heaven.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      I'm not forcing you into anything. Worshipping jesus can not be differentiated from christianity as a religion, that's the whole point of christianity, you just find a lot of the finer points of your religion distasteful so you try and deny certain parts, but it never works, it just shows you are out of your depth when it comes to discussing theology and would rather retreat into ignorance and repeating a mantra like, "I worship Jesus Christ. Not religion."

      "Chuckles seems to think that Jesus is like a magical puppy in the pound. If you choose him he’ll be yours."
      –Uh, no, no I don't, but thanks for putting words in my mouth 🙂 I guess you're only against that sort of thing when other people do it to you huh?

      Face it December, you're afraid to ask the tough questions.

      February 13, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • December

      @chuckles

      Just giving you a taste of your own medicine. Kind of annoying, hu?

      I ultimately will answer to God.

      Not you.

      You try to imply what I believe by your standards. But I have different standards for my life.

      February 13, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      "Just giving you a taste of your own medicine. Kind of annoying, hu?"
      - I don't really care, it just seems mighty strange that a person who craps his pants everytime I quote him and writes that I'm putting words in his mouth would turn around and do the same thing. It's just so .... juvenile.

      "I ultimately will answer to God. Not you. You try to imply what I believe by your standards. But I have different standards for my life."

      - "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son" - Dean Wormer from Animal House

      This man makes a solid point December, going through life as stupid as you is really no way to live. Considering your god wrote in your book who will go to heaven or not, this isn't me "implying what [you] believe by [my] standards", it's just dogmatic fact. Why is that so yough to understand? It must be hard to have a nonbeliever such as myself school you on your own religion. You might want to learn what you are worshipping sometime instead of taking what your phoney priest has to say at face value.

      February 13, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
    • December

      Well, for starters... I don't even have a priest.

      Second, you don't quote me. You rewrite what I say with your own personal spin.

      You are not schooling me. I think you have a bad understanding of what I believe. Even from an academic standpoint.

      February 13, 2013 at 5:42 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      father, pastor, shaman, voodooman, sorry they're all the same to me....

      and I usually use quotes directly from you, and when I do paraphrase, I even say "and I'll paraphrase here" which I guess could be taken as putting words in your mouth if I actually did indeed stray from the content of your words, which I don't. You just get all huffy because what I point out doesn't jive with your personal point of view, but that doesn't chanage christianity, it just means your more of a heretic than you think.

      And of course I'm schooling you, I offer up biblical quotes, discuss how different aspects of don't make sense and all you can say is, "I worship Jesus Christ. Not religion." as if those things are very different and you can have one without the other. Sometimes it's just so terribly sad and pathetic when so many christians have no idea what their religion teaches.

      February 13, 2013 at 5:48 pm |
    • fred

      Pete
      33% Christisan and 21% muslim and only 15 without a specific belief.
      Christians worship the God of Abraham as do Muslims. How many get God 100% right is only 1 person Jesus. God is a personal God and we all have differences. It is impossible to say how many get it right enough for an eternal life in unity with God. Jesus says we (man) cannot make that call.

      February 13, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • December

      "father, pastor, shaman, voodooman, sorry they're all the same to me...."

      Well... they are all very different to me.

      I don't think anything can separate me from the love of Jesus Christ. Especially not some semi-anonymous message board poster.

      Peace.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      I'm not trying to separate you from your jesus. You can go on having that faux relationship with an invisible person all you want. If you are so set in your ways, why do you come to this board multiple times a week and debate back and forth? A pyschologist would say that you are more doubtful of your faith than you let on and you came here to reaffirm your faith but were unable to. I hope that by actually understanding what I write you'll come to realize that your initial phase of being an "atheist" was your way of rebelling against something you believed existed and the sort of person the church classifies as an "atheist" when really it's closer to what you'd call a heretic.

      Keep asking the questions about the faith you profess to believe in, learn more about the only book that outlines who your god actually is and broaden your scope to learn more about world religions past and present. There once was a poster on this board who could explain his position very clearly and I respected how he came to believe in jesus because he cleraly expressed the depth in which he had done his soul searching and where he ended up. If you could be half the poster that guy was I might have a little respect for you or what you believe in.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
    • December

      "your initial phase of being an "atheist" was your way of rebelling against something you believed existed and the sort of person the church classifies as an "atheist" when really it's closer to what you'd call a heretic. "

      TOO MANY "you statements".

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/communication-success/201205/are-you-poor-communicator-how-improve

      Ineffective communication is often characterized by the use of certain types of “you” language, such as “you are...,” “you should...,” “you need to...,” “you have to...,” “you’d better...,” and “you people...”. Directives are statements that either pass negative judgment, or order another person around. Some examples of “you” language plus a directive include:

      I don't mind if you tell me what you believe.

      I don't understand why you think you can tell me what I believe. You can't.

      You are wrong. You don't know me. At all.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
    • December

      "why do you come to this board multiple times a week and debate back and forth?"

      Why do you?

      Probably the exact same reason I do.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
    • Observer

      RM 101, where did you get this false information from? Krishna was crucified? Really? Your source for this is?

      February 13, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      Seriously, are you mentally slow? I should have asked this earlier, but better late than never I guess.

      The "you" statements you keep referring to are literally lifted from some of your own posts. I use "you" and "your" to either direct questions at you or discuss your statements that you already made. That's not putting words in your mouth, that's parsing out your words that are there in black and white.

      You mentioned the other day that you used to be an atheist. Is this true or were you lying? If you affirm that you used to be an atheist, please then explain why you considered yourself an atheist. The only times you reference it is when you said, "I used to be arrogant when I was an atheist...." Showing that your idea of an atheist is someone who is arrogant.

      It's okay though, I've already explained how you are clearly doubting your faith, which is not me putting words in your mouth, it's me gleaning doubt from the words you've spoken.

      Hows about instead of being a coward you actually defend arguments instead of whining about me? Honestly, you must have been beaten up a lot as a kid.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
    • Jacob

      @fred Muslims don't worship the same God as the God of Abraham, they worship Allah revealed as god by their prophet mohammad

      February 13, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
    • Pete

      “33% Christisan and 21% muslim and only 15 without a specific belief.
      Christians worship the God of Abraham as do Muslims. “

      Muslims do not. For Muslims, Abraham is a prophet, the "messenger of God” but it is not their God. Allah is their God.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      Wrong-o, I come here because being a religion studies minor religion has always fascinated me and I enjoy coming to this forum to actually read what other intelligent people have discovered and are willing to share, occasionally to engage a believer in dialogue about their beliefs and help them realize the utter ridiculousness that is their belief in unsubsantiated claims. If that's the same reason you come here, then I guess you are right though

      @Jacob
      Allah is the same as god of abraham. The muslims believe they are descendents of abraham through Hagar and that the covenant that god made with abraham included them. This is further cemented by god appearing before Muhammed, but in essence Jews, Muslims and Christians all believe in the same god.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:33 pm |
    • December

      I did say I used to be an atheist.

      I never said or believed something like this:

      "your initial phase of being an "atheist" was your way of rebelling against something you believed existed and the sort of person the church classifies as an "atheist" when really it's closer to what you'd call a heretic. "

      That is you jumping to your own conclusions.

      Actually, I've never been beaten up in my life. So, you are wrong about that, too. I'm sure you will try to prove me wrong.

      You really don't know me.

      I have strong faith in Jesus Christ. That is why I am here. And not on a "CNN Atheist Message Board"

      February 13, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      You failed (of course) to answer the second part, which is; what, in your mind, consti.tutes as being an "atheist"? You call yourself one but considering I've seen you try and explain your atheism before, it sounds like you weren't an atheist, but what the church considerd and atheist.

      Also, you haven't been beaten up? Pity, maybe a good conk on the noggin would rattle around something in that empty head of yours.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
    • December

      @Chuckles

      Do you know what my major was in college?

      February 13, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • December

      @Chuckles

      An atheist doesn't believe in God.

      There is no dogma or special handshake to be an atheist.

      I just did not believe there was a god. I don't how to explain it any better.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:41 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      Let me guess. You majored in crying like a little girl and minored in how to best sh.it your pants? You're pretty amazing at both which leads me to believe you have a higher degree in both areas.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:41 pm |
    • Pete

      Oh fun we're going to start playing the degree game again....can we play the expert game after that? It will probably shock December to know there are former ministers turned atheists that are posting here too.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      "I just did not believe there was a god. I don't how to explain it any better."
      - And that's your problem, you decided what you didn't believe in but you couldn't explain what you did believe in, which led you to fall back into christianity.

      Like I pointed out above, the poster who clearly articulated why they believe in god gets my respect, a person such as yourself who constantly falls back into whining and can't explain your position whether it once was an atheist or now is a christian only earns you derision.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:47 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @December

      You're one of the few theists I've seen here that actually has an accurate definition of atheist.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:49 pm |
    • December

      @Pete
      > Oh fun we're going to start playing the degree game again

      Chuckles mentioned his education first.

      My point was going to be that Chuckles doesn't know what I majored in. Somebody that even kind of knows me, will know what I majored in.

      > It will probably shock December to know there are former ministers turned atheists that are posting here too.

      That doesn't f/cking shock me. At all.

      @Chuckles.
      > which led you to fall back into christianity.

      I wasn't a Christian before.

      > the poster who clearly articulated why they believe in god gets my respect,

      I don't care if a man who resorts to name calling and inssults doesn't respect me.

      Jesus said people will HATE me because of him. I'm prepared for it.

      February 13, 2013 at 6:54 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      Why do you keep thinking that I somehow "know" you. Any armchair pyscho.logy i've done is based of what you've said, that's it. Does your ma.jor have anything to do with the c.onv.er.sation or was that just another way for you to say, "you don't kn.ow me!",

      February 13, 2013 at 7:06 pm |
    • Chuckles

      I wasn't a Christian before. "
      –Interesting, what were you before?

      "I don't care if a man who res.orts to name calling and inssults doesn't respect me"
      - Haha

      .

      February 13, 2013 at 7:07 pm |
    • Chuckles

      "Jesus said people will HATE me because of him. I'm prepared for it."
      –Oh yeah, jesus said people would hate you so your fine with it. Ever hear of self-fullfilling prophacy? pathetic.

      February 13, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
    • December

      > Why do you keep thinking that I somehow "know" you

      Practically all you have contributed to this thread is about *ME*.

      You pop up almost daily in any thread I'm posting in telling people about *ME*.

      You seem to think you know all about *ME*.

      I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU THAT YOU DON'T KNOW ME. YOU ARE WRONG. TRUST ME. *I* KNOW *ME* BETTER.

      > Interesting, what were you before?

      a t h e i s t !

      February 13, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @December

      "> Why do you keep thinking that I somehow "know" you

      Practically all you have contributed to this thread is about *ME*.

      You pop up almost daily in any thread I'm posting in telling people about *ME*.

      You seem to think you know all about *ME*.

      I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU THAT YOU DON'T KNOW ME. YOU ARE WRONG. TRUST ME. *I* KNOW *ME* BETTER.

      > Interesting, what were you before?

      a t h e i s t !"

      –Seems like you are really narcissistic. Everything seems to be about you somehow when most of the time it's about christian theology and you get huffy..... interesting.

      So you were an atheist, then you felt left out and became a christian. Kudos. you're still an idiot.

      February 13, 2013 at 7:25 pm |
    • Jacob

      Allah of the Koran is not the same as the God of the bible. Allah is a god as revealed to Mohammad although Muslims are descendants of Hagar, that does equate the God of the bible to the god that was revealed to mohammad

      February 13, 2013 at 7:26 pm |
    • Jacob

      In other words Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God.

      February 13, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Jacob

      They do and they don't. Technically they all worship the god of abraham, but clearly that god has been twisted, warped and changed by jews, christians and muslims to the point where the gods of each religion can't really be melded into the same one without some serious theological problems, but considering all abrahamic religions stem from a single person (Abraham) muslims recognize that jesus was a prophet of allah and not a incarnation of god and that jews and christians are still people of the book and sort of recognize allah, its only the jihadists and fringe part of islam that absoultely rejects other religions.

      February 13, 2013 at 7:31 pm |
    • Jacob

      That is exactly the point, technically they are not the same God, Muslims believe in a god that was revealed to their prophet. This is not the God of the bible/the God of abraham

      February 13, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
    • clarity

      And I would argue that the god of the Lutheran Church -Missouri Synod is not the same god as that of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (and then I would argue that most likely neither of those exist – lol).

      February 13, 2013 at 7:47 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      Allah = Yhwh. Period. Anyone who does not believe this has not read either the Quran or the Bible. Are their differences in how each group of faithful interpret their God? Well of course, but that is true not only from religion to religion but from sect to sect even within the supposed same faith.

      February 13, 2013 at 8:00 pm |
    • Jacob

      Anyone who claims that God of the Bible is the same as allah is lying and does not know the God of the Bible.

      February 13, 2013 at 8:40 pm |
  9. SoldierOfConscience

    Atheist believe in nothing. Only a fool can believe in nothing. I like other logical people want to believe in something.

    Thats logic for you.

    remember, its all black and white. The world is composed of good and evil. you believe in God or in nothing. there is no middle ground or grey-range view

    February 13, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • End Religion

      There is no evil or good. Everything is grey, simpleton.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      I believe

      Humans do not require a god to be moral.
      Religion divides more than it unites.
      It is untrue that atheists “believe in nothing”.
      It does not take more faith to be an atheist.
      Atheists do not deny god because they wish to be god.
      Religion and science are incompatible.
      Complexity does not equal design.
      The scientific method trumps primitive anonymous texts.
      The scriptures are ridiculous, offensive and demonstrably false.
      One does not require an afterlife to have a meaningful life.
      Threats of eternal punishment betray a weak argument.
      Schools should be filled with facts, not fanatics.
      Your personal experience does not prove god.
      An inability to disprove god does not prove god.
      Not knowing what caused the big bang does not prove god.
      Even if you prove evolution is completely wrong, it will not prove god.
      And if you believe in any gods the burden of proof is on you.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • myweightinwords

      Belief isn't logical. It doesn't need to be. It's faith.

      There is very little in this world that is completely "black" or "white", "evil" or "good". Most everything is in shades.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Here we go again.
      The prefix "A" = lack of
      "Theism" = belief in gods.
      A + theism = Lack of belief in Gods.
      Atheism is a negative statement that describes only what one does NOT believe.
      It is like calling a singer an "a-instrumentalist" – it doesn't describe what they do, only what they don't do.

      I am a naturalist who believes that there is no existence save that which we experience directly (ie: no spiritual realm). I am also a rational anarchist who knows that concepts such as ‘state’ and ‘society’ and ‘government’ have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals.
      Effective cooperation is a learned skill and the successful religions recognize this. Christianity reveals this truth about ourselves most poignantly in the character of Jesus Christ. His message is one of peace, charity, modesty and forgiveness – the traits most important to develop when living in a society.
      But the character of Jesus is not unique – He is an example of an archetype in mythology.
      Sociological evolution is leading us away from religion. Not because Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc are negative in and of themselves, but becuase they are necessarily divisive.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:42 am |
    • SOC blaster

      Maybe SoldierOfIlliteracy would like to buy some punctuation, some capital letters (for use in better places), and an "s" for "Atheists". When someone communicates this poorly, you have to wonder what else is going wrong upstairs.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:43 am |
    • Poltergeist

      So a murdering rapist is in the grey for you, end?

      February 13, 2013 at 11:44 am |
    • Madtown

      you believe in God or in nothing
      ---–
      You can believe in God, but don't need religion to do it. Religion divides us, does not unite us.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • sam stone

      Atheists do not "believe in nothing", S(ame) O(ld) C(vcksucker)

      February 13, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Poltergeist

      Yeah thats right. They disbelieve everything :O

      February 13, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • Mass Debater

      A murdering r ap ist is anathema to to our socially evolved morality. This is why it feel's so "evil" to us for our ancestors that survived were using cooperation, not total domination, and thus traits were passed on to us. Anyone who thinks morality is top down as in coming from some deity/God creature, has done zero research into human history for they will find law's and morality goes back as far back as the recorded history goes and is found in every human culture, regardless of their deity, regardless of their invented religions or doctrine they used to explain what they saw as the unexplainable.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • Poltergeist

      That doesn't suggest much. If morality were sourced from a higher authority(not all faiths have dieties) that would also explain their similarities across borders. If a functional moral code could be developed without a faith or religion behind it, it should have already occurred in some civilization already. Yet morality and religion go hand in hand and most Athiest from those faiths are keen to reject aspects of morality they don't like, but lack the authority to enforce any form if morality beyond a personal code.

      February 13, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Poltergeist,

      The Catholic church seems to think it is a grey area.

      February 13, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • End Religion

      "So a murdering rapist is in the grey for you, end?"

      For me, a murdering rapist is about as dark as it gets but no certainly not black. Speaking about others, generally, consider... Did the murderer torture slowly or kill quickly? Was the victim a child, a woman, in a wheelchair, with red hair, mentally retarded, with a lisp, had won a gold medal in the Olympics, was a firefighter, a priest, a gambler? Was the criminal and/or victim the same race as the person hearing the news about the crime? Did the rapist have bad breath or wear a flower in his lapel that squirts water? All of these things seem to change each person's perception of how sick/cruel a crime might have been.

      What is the difference between a man who kills one person versus a man who tries to extinguish an entire race? Are these both equally "black" to you? Is it really only the fact that the number killed is greater, or that the way they were killed was more callous, that people seem to think Nazi Germany was the height of evil yet the American sniper who was recently murdered at a gun range (and had admitted to killing many peopel) was a hero? What if the man who murdered one person was you and the person you killed had broken into your house and was about to kill your child? Is this any more grey for you than if someone had assassinated Mao Zedong as a child or Abe Lincoln as an adult?

      And what about the rapist? From his point of view none of what he did may be perceived as wrong. This why we have law, to determine right from wrong, and sentences which try to punish according to the prevailing society's view of what is dark grey and what is light grey. There are extenuating circumstances in every event that may constitute "grey areas." If every murder committed is equally black, period, with no grey area, then your god is the greatest mass murderer and worst evil bar none. But I'm sure you'll argue your god has an extenuating circumstance, won't you?

      February 13, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • Answer

      The disingenuous religious tards love making up their bogus claims about atheists. All too common.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      5 years ago, the Journal of Religion & Society published a study on religious belief and social well-being, comparing 18 prosperous democracies from the U.S. to New Zealand.
      #1 on the list in both atheism and good behaviour is Ja.pan. It is one of the least crime-prone countries in the world. It also has the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation. Over eighty percent of the population accept evolution.
      Last on the list is the U.S. It has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Ja.pan.
      Atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less numerous in the prison population (0.21%)
      Louisiana, with America's highest church attendance rate, has twice the national average murder rate.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      You're trying to associate morality with the magnitude of the action. Lets approach it from the opposite side of morality. Who is more right? A poor man who gives his last few dollars to some one in greater need Or a rich man who gives the same amount to 100 people in need? Sure the rich person accomplished more, but he may be more concerned in the tax write off. On the other hand the poor person sacrificed his own welfare for another. But in the end we are likely to sit the rich man on a pedestal and celebrate his philanthropy.

      Similarly a person committing a horrible act like murder will be viewed as less evil than one who commits genocide. At the end of the day none of these actions tell how good or evil a person is. It just shows what they are capable of given resources. The thoughts of someone who killed one person might be just as dark as the genocider, the only difference being he has no army. IMO two individuals can be equally evil in thought, but we in society will never know unless they are given the opportunity to act in them. If hitler had failed in taking over the government, we would have never known he planned to exterminate the Jews, but would that have made him any less evil? There's not much grey when it comes to inflicting suffering, there's only the magnitude of the suffering.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      @Doc Unfortunately Russia's high none/high murder population doesn't seem to agree with that theory.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • End Religion

      @PoultryGeist: There is no "other side of morality." Your argument has faltered. If all murder is evil, no Christian should ever participate in any war, and your god is the ultimate demon.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Poltergeist
      Russia is not a "prosperous democracy" and therefore did not fit the bill for the above study.
      In 2012, the Russian government released a survey of the religious make up of the country.
      Russian Orthodox (41%)
      Muslim (6.5%)
      Unaffiliated Christian (4.1%)
      Other Orthodox (1.5%)
      Neopagan and Tengrist (1.2%)
      Thunderbolt Buddhist (0.5%)
      Other religions (1.7%)
      Spiritual but not religious (25%)
      Atheist and non-religious (13%)
      Undecided (5.5%)

      Lotsa Christians over there!

      February 13, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      :-/ There are two sides to morality. Good/Evil. Good is the other side I'm referring too.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Poltergeist
      Moral relativism is a truism.
      For example – ur culture has a very strong cannibalism taboo, but it cannot be "human nature" or "divine mandate" to feel repulsed by it as virtually every branch of the human species has praticed it at some point in their development.
      The Wari, The Kuru, Fore, Caribs, Fijians, Popayans, Serengipeans, are all fairly modern examples (within the last 500 years).
      The Aztecs believed in transubstantiation. They consumed their human sacrifices in the belief that the dead literally became a part of the God to whom they were given. That is, until Christian Conquistadores wiped their culture off the map.
      Binerwurs in India ate the sick amongst them to please Kali.
      The Karankawa, an indigenous Texan tribe, ritualistically consumed their enemies to gain their strength.
      Indeed, Christians from the 1st Crusade consumed the fallen Arabs at Maarat.
      Just be thankful that the modern Christian form is limited to wafers and wine!

      February 13, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • anti-SOC

      Go away, Soldier of Con Science

      go con somebody else

      February 13, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      @Polter – "If morality were sourced from a higher authority(not all faiths have dieties) that would also explain their similarities across borders. If a functional moral code could be developed without a faith or religion behind it, it should have already occurred in some civilization already." Um, are you really this dumb? Try opening a history book other than the mostly fictional bible. There are many many cultures and peoples who have morals codes completely aside from religion, though I will accept that religion has hijacked the majority of them at some point in their history. The socially evolved morals we all share came from our common ancestors several million years ago and have been being used to protect our social groups and promote cooperation for as far back as we can trace our heritage. Cooperation was key to our species survival in a world of much larger and much stronger creatures battling for survival. Our empathy is what allowed us to survive when other relatives and cousins of our species were dying out, unable to dominate without a shared sense of community even in the smallest of social groups, nursing the injured back to health instead of leaving them by the wayside, feeding the elderly as well as the young and a primal understanding that their personal survival was in fact firmly welded to the well being of the group as a whole.

      Religion on the other hand, was invented when the need arose to war with other groups of the same species who shared the empathy but did not share the same group and thus fighting over the same food sources and shelter would have been common, and the best way to remove the empathy we feel for others which would then allow us to attack and kill people who looked just like us, was to invent an invisible difference separating us from them, dehumanizing the opponent to the degree that the empathy once felt has dissapeared and all that is left is righteous indigination against those who don't believe like you do.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
  10. Poltergeist

    Fun RCC myths: the Catholic Church hated science and stopped it during the dark ages!

    FALSE

    Most forget that was the only speck of roman culture that remained after the barbarians finished it that was capable of scientific research was the RCC.

    Monk was about the only profession that justified literacy and the RCC was the only organization rich enough to create universities to preserve knowledge. You may know a few, Oxford, Cambridge, you know, nothing too fancy. And these facilities were responsible for the medical advances that led to the first 14th century hospitals, once again funded by the RCC.

    Heck around this time, even the Muslims were introducing Europe to some crazy doohickey called a compass.

    February 13, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Vatican & Italian Space Agency Combine Science and Spirituality

      Photo: "Eye of God", Helix Nebula
      A new website is being created in a joint venture between the Vatican and the Italian Space Agency (ASI). In an effort for science and spirituality to both understand a full view of reality, the website will explore the often separate subjects of astronomy, theology, space, philosophy, and art. It will present the information in both the English and Italian language, and will have three separate portals for students and teachers, scholars, and the general population.

      Monsignor Gianfranco Basti, the dean of the Pontifical Lateran University’s philosophy department, stated:

      “From the Church’s point of view, this is about getting religious people to see that scientists are not the enemy and getting scientists to see that religious people are not the enemy,” said Msgr Basti. “The aim is for both sides to come together for the good of humanity.”

      February 13, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Science

      CNN: Stephen Hawking: God Didn't Create Universe [Archive] – Bible ...
      forum.bible-discussion.com/archive/index.php?t-12003.html&s...
      Sep 2, 2010 – http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/02/hawking.god.universe/index.html?hpt=T2#fbid=v3zw1vGTEge&wom=false.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • December

      the last word in that url = "false" hehe

      February 13, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • Science

      That is what it says.

      Peace

      February 13, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      The Christian and Islamic religions have also done much to stiffle and control knowledge and continue to do so. Nothing the RCC has done to advance knowledge has required their religion, anything positive they have done was because of money and power.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:42 am |
    • Poltergeist

      No one else had the money to build all of European early universities and hospitals. They all died with Rome. If the RCC hadn't done it, it wouldn't have been done because no one else cared about the law things. Remember secularist got their education by reading translations made in catholic universities by monks.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Poltergeist

      *the law things = those things

      February 13, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • End Religion

      It's pretty bad when mankind refers to the time period in our history when Christianity had a stranglehold as "Dark Ages" and the time immediately after that as "Age of Reason". Hello? Mankind refers to "not thinking like a religious nut" as "rational thought". Doesn't this tell you cretins anything at all?

      Scientific advances may be made in any age however advancement is usually stifled under any period of religious fundamentalism. Findings may be suppressed unless they seem to fit in with a religious worldview, as opposed to unsuppressed science which accepts any finding that has enough supporting evidence over time.

      The Myth of Christianity Founding Modern Science and Medicine
      (And the Hole Left by the Christian Dark Ages*)
      http://www.nobeliefs.com/comments10.htm

      February 13, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • clarity

      Yes, Cheese; for instance early Christian apologists said that the gospel stories were not copies of similar earlier pagan stories, but that those earlier stories were a pre-emptive strike by Satan, who set the whole thing up – in advance no less; lol. wink wink.

      February 13, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
    • Hmmmmm

      There are Native American stories that include a virgin birth... did the Christians fly to America and steal those stories, too?

      February 13, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      No one who lives then called it the dark ages. Church officials did indeed interfere in scientific discoveries at times. It still doesn't change the fact that they largely welcomed most scientific progress and was the only organization capable of preserving and spreading knowledge at the time. Universities and translations by monks provided the knowledge base that made the later enlightenment possible. There may have been people in the church oppose to knowledge, but there were many who helped keep science alone during a very unstable time in Europe.

      February 13, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • End Religion

      lol@PoultryGeist who no longer sees much meaning in religion and is desperate to now have it magically grasp onto the coattails of science. "But guys, come on, religion was important somehow, wasn't it? I mean, after they stole everyone's money and land in the form of tithes and bribes to avoid being "put to the Question" they had big buildings with books and could speak Latin. That must be good for something?!?"

      February 13, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      Lol no actually I think it was vital. I think it was the difference between modern Europe and one dominated by isolated ignorant pagan tribes. People enforcing ignorance wouldn't build virtually every university in Europe. It's that simple.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
  11. Chick-a-dee

    Ash Wednesday

    Bishop Kevin Farrell ‏
    The greatest sacrifice for Lent is to live the Catholic faith, putting our faith in practice by doing God's holy will and not our own.

    Fasting helps us to remind us that this world is not our home, and our earthly bodies are fleeting. Our true home is with Christ in heaven.

    February 13, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • frank

      It's also a great way to lower one's resistance and ultimately spread germs around.

      February 13, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • December

      God's will – not mine – be done.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • Chick-a-dee

      @ Frank: I wouldn't worry about compromisi.ng immunity with fasting and ab.stinence. The dietary restrictions are quite liberal. In fact, some vegans practice much stricter, self-imposed restrictions without any pen.itential motivation and no one seems to be concerned about that.

      The Church, therefore, has two forms of official pen.itential practices – three if the Eucharistic fast before Communion is included.

      ab.stinence
      The law of ab.stinence requires a Catholic 14 years of age until death to abstain from eating meat on Fridays in honor of the Pas.sion of Jesus on Good Friday. Meat is considered to be the flesh and organs of mammals and fowl. Moral theologians have traditionally considered this also to forbid soups or gravies made from them. Salt and freshwater species of fish, amphibians, reptiles and shellfish are permitted, as are animal-derived products such as gelatin, butter, cheese and eggs, which do not have any meat taste.

      During Lent ab.stinence from meat on Fridays is obligatory in the United States as elsewhere, and it is si.nful not to observe this discipline without a serious reason (physical labor, pregnancy, sickness etc.).

      Fasting
      The law of fasting requires a Catholic from the 18th Birthday [Canon 97] to the 59th Birthday [i.e. the beginning of the 60th year, a year which will be completed on the 60th birthday] to reduce the amount of food eaten from normal. The Church defines this as one meal a day, and two smaller meals which if added together would not exceed the main meal in quanti.ty. Such fasting is obligatory on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. The fast is broken by eating between meals and by drinks which could be considered food (milk shakes, but not milk). Alcoholic beverages do not break the fast; however, they seem contrary to the spirit of doing pen.ance.

      Those who are excused from fast or ab.stinence
      Besides those outside the age limits, those of unsound mind, the sick, the frail, pregnant or nursi.ng women according to need for meat or nourishment, manual laborers according to need, guests at a meal who cannot excuse themselves without giving great offense or causi.ng enmity and other situations of moral or physical impossibility to observe the pen.itential discipline.

      Aside from these minimum pen.itential requirements Catholics are encouraged to impose some personal pen.ance on themselves at other times. It could be modeled after ab.stinence and fasting. A person could, for example, multiply the number of days they abstain. Some people give up meat entirely for religious motives (as opposed to those who give it up for health or other motives). Some religious orders, as a pen.ance, never eat meat. Similarly, one could multiply the number of days that one fasted. The early Church had a practice of a Wednesday and Saturday fast. This fast could be the same as the Church's law (one main meal and two smaller ones) or stricter, even bread and water. Such freely chosen fasting could also consist in giving up something one enjoys – candy, soft drinks, smoking, that co.cktail before supper, and so on. This is left to the individual.

      February 13, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
  12. Tommy

    You know what I would like to read about today? Anything other than the Pope.

    February 13, 2013 at 9:31 am |
    • Saraswati

      Yep, I'm out of here. Pope overdose.

      February 13, 2013 at 9:33 am |
    • December

      I think even Catholic has to be sick of all this.

      February 13, 2013 at 10:03 am |
  13. think !

    God in Quran says, (Islamic scripture)

    “They even attribute to Him sons and daughters, without any knowledge. Be He glorified. He is the Most High, far above their claims.” Quran [6:100]

    “The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.” Quran [3:59]

    ‘They said, "You have to be Jewish or Christian, to be guided." Say, "We follow the religion of Abraham – monotheism – he never was an idol worshiper." [2:135]

    “Proclaim, He is the One and only GOD. The Absolute GOD. Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten. None equals Him." [112:1]

    The Messiah, son of Mary is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate! [5:75]

    It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is. [19:35]

    “No soul can carry the sins of another soul. If a soul that is loaded with sins implores another to bear part of its load, no other soul can carry any part of it, even if they were related. ... [35:18]

    They do not value God as He should be valued. God is the Most Powerful, the Almighty.[22:74]

    If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess. [Quran 6:116]

    “There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in God has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. God is Hearer, Omniscient.” [2:256]

    O people, here is a parable that you must ponder carefully: the idols you set up beside God can never create a fly, even if they banded together to do so. Furthermore, if the fly steals anything from them, they cannot recover it; weak is the pursuer and the pursued. [22:73]

    “God: there is no other god besides Him, the Living, the Eternal. Never a moment of unawareness or slumber overtakes Him. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Who could intercede with Him, except in accordance with His will? He knows their past, and their future. No one attains any knowledge, except as He wills. His dominion encompasses the heavens and the earth, and ruling them never burdens Him. He is the Most High, the Great.” [2:255]

    Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to clear your misconception by going to whyIslam org website.

    February 13, 2013 at 9:15 am |
    • islam is-lame

      The qur'an is as dumb a book as the xtian buy-bull. Both fiction.

      February 13, 2013 at 9:36 am |
  14. Free Nuts

    Best news ever pope proclaims god(s) don't work for lent.

    February 13, 2013 at 8:51 am |
  15. HotAirAce

    Huge crowds cheered the resignation of Pope-A-Dope and Chief Pedophile Protector. . .

    February 13, 2013 at 8:48 am |
  16. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    Joey Ratzinger: "Mein Gott what a long strange trip it's been!"

    (Looks in the mirror)

    Joey Ratzinger: "JESUS! I really am the Pope!"

    February 13, 2013 at 8:41 am |
  17. truth be told

    All so called atheists are liars. That said move on to examine one aspect of their lies. The self deluded atheist thinks it is fooling morally decent people, it isn't it only fools its own kind and rarely that. Note the posts that supposedly quote famous people, taken out of context to deceive the reader into to thinking they held a firm view that they did not. They do the same with Bible passages and claim knowledge. Truth be told all so called atheists are no more than liars.

    February 13, 2013 at 8:37 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "truth be told", but your repeated assertions regarding atheism are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL FROM A HABITUAL TROLL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      February 13, 2013 at 8:43 am |
  18. Over 40,000 denominations of insanity

    Has anything improved with Christianity since 200+ years ago?
    =================================================

    Thomas Jefferson, POTUS #3 (from Notes on the State of Virginia):

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    James Madison, POTUS #4, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights (from A Memorial and Remonstrance delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785):

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    John Adams, POTUS #2 (in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 09/03/1816):

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    Ben Franklin (from a letter to The London Packet, 3 June 1772):

    If we look back into history for the character of present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practised it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England, blamed persecution in the Roman church, but practised it against the Puritans: these found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England.

    Thomas Paine (from The Age of Reason):

    All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    February 13, 2013 at 8:28 am |
  19. SoldierOfConscience

    People keep bringing up the choir boy scandal in every catholic related story. According to me, what really happened was that bunch of g@ys infiltrated the priesthood and did their thing with the choir boys. Unfortunately the church didnt show them their place and tell them to get the h-e-double-hockey-sticks out.

    February 13, 2013 at 8:21 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      That's just silly. The priests were pedophiles. Some may have been gay, but probably a lot of priests are gay. Being gay doesn't lead to pedophilia. Also, how does one infiltrate the priesthood? By becoming a priest through long years of training? All priests are infiltrators?

      February 13, 2013 at 8:28 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as hom.ose.xuals, heterose.xuals, or bise.xuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their se.xual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.
      Perpetrators with a more or less exclusive interest in children are labeled fixated. Fixation means "a temporary or permanent arrestment of psychological maturation resulting from unresolved formative issues which persist and underlie the organization of subsequent phases of development".
      By contrast, other molesters are described as regressed. Regression is "a temporary or permanent appearance of primitive behavior after more mature forms of expression had been attained, regardless of whether the immature behavior was actually manifested earlier in the individual's development".

      Doctors Groth and Birnbaum studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of se.xual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively ho.mos.exual adult se.xual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterose.xuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bise.xuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in s.ex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily se.xually attracted to other adult males..."

      February 13, 2013 at 8:39 am |
    • myweightinwords

      As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, you are wrong.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • sam stone

      So, SOC, those gay priests didn't give you the common courtesy of a reach around?

      February 13, 2013 at 11:53 am |
  20. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    February 13, 2013 at 7:54 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your repeated assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL".

      February 13, 2013 at 8:45 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      February 13, 2013 at 10:54 am |
    • HeavenSense

      Hi Prayerbot.

      February 13, 2013 at 11:31 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.