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Vatican: Cardinals could meet sooner to choose new pope
February 18th, 2013
10:01 AM ET

Vatican: Cardinals could meet sooner to choose new pope

By Livia Borghese and Laura Smith-Spark for CNN

Rome (CNN) - The cardinals who must pick a successor to Pope Benedict XVI after he steps down on February 28 could meet to make the decision sooner than thought, a Vatican spokesman said Saturday.

The conclave, the meeting which will bring together the 117 cardinals of the Roman Catholic Church, could start before March 15 if all the cardinals are already in Rome, Father Federico Lombardi said.

Lombardi had previously said the conclave was likely to start between March 15 and 19.

But he gave new details Saturday, saying that because the pope had resigned rather than the conclave being triggered by his death, there was scope for the time frame to be brought forward.

The decision may not come until after Benedict's departure and lies in the hands of the cardinals, he added.

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Catholic Church • Pope Benedict XVI • Vatican

soundoff (1,003 Responses)
  1. Rainer Braendlein

    You Americans are such hypocrites worse than the pope and his accomplices. You always tell you want to bring about democracy every where but in fact you only want to establish your fu-ck-capitalsm every where.

    February 18, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • Johnny Guitar

      You sound quite Baader-Meinhof this morning, Rainer.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      And we all the know history has proven the Germans to be such angelic creatures.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • AvdBergism source of filthyRainerBraendleinism©

      goon dog. no dogs!

      February 18, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      Ain't I right that the whole world has become a factory or satanic mill. People are only concerned about earning money, earning money, earning money. The human beings have degenerated to human robots. Responsible for that are our rulers. They have shaped the wolrd according to their will, and now we swim in a large cloaca. Thank you, American presidents.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Johan Johannadanna

      More proof that Christians are getting crazier. Hard to imagine there is any crazier for them to get, but darn if they don't find a way!

      February 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      LOL you do realize that the Church THRIVES off of "donations".

      If there was no money, there would be no church. You should thank your leaders for that.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • kookooBlaster

      "Ain't I right that the whole world has become a factory or satanic mill."

      "and lo, from the satanic mill, they produced sinner's wheat, and from the sinner's wheat, Faust flour, and from the Faust flour, cakes of devil's food.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • sam stone

      Still marching for the Fuhrer, Rainy?

      February 18, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • sam stone

      You are free to exit this world anytime you choose, Rainy. My suggestion is your sidearm pointed upward directly underneath your jaw

      February 18, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
  2. bobk52

    I know there's no mail today, & no school either. So where are u coming from? Stop taking your meds already!

    February 18, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
  3. realbuckyball

    I wonder if they know they are wearing the (fish-mouth) hats of the fish god, Dagon ?

    February 18, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • Johnny Guitar

      And with all the money the Vatican has, couldn't they find someone who could build a level room instead of one leaning over at a 45 degree angle?

      February 18, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
  4. Rainer Braendlein

    Ain't Merkel, Obama and Hollande Antichristian. They conisder their peoples only as cash cows. They are not interested in the happiness or soul's health of their people but only in the tax revenue.

    We have get used of the fact that our societies are meritocracies. But this is no accident but the will of our demonic rulers. Our current polticians exactly know that their peoples consist of weaker and stronger people. The whole system beginning with the educational system is layed out like that that only the fittest survives. Our rulers live in a great satanic delusion. For them all nations and all people are in a constant competi-ton but that is a nonsense.

    The truth is that the whole mankind is actually a great organism, and every single man and every single nation has its special task like the organs of a human body. If we would cooperate instead of compete we could live in great wealth without any stress. Imagine how idiotic it would be if the organs of your body would start to comptete instead of cooperating.

    The whole world has become a satanic church, and the faith is: "survival of the fittest". This is the opposite of Christian love: "Love your neighbour like yourself".

    Obama, Merkel and Holland are demonic jerks. They should be given the boot.

    February 18, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • ..

      You know nothiong about our President, being that you live in Germany, and as such, are not qualified to comment on any other country other than the fucked up country you live in. Shut up.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • sam stone

      rainy is a jeebus svcking closet queen. his only value is entertainment. sort of like a geek at the circus.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • Johnny Guitar

      You are one crazy mofo, Rainy. That's a heck of a conspiracy theory you've got going.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
  5. Rainer Braendlein

    The pope is never a Christian bishop. Simply a Christian bishop would not be ready to hold the pope's illegal office. The pope is the highest bishop on earth but this is a hierarchy which God never wanted, or which God has never insti-tuted. Actually there should be only local bishops or pastors elected by the local congregation. These bishops should be independent, and not controlled by any higher superbishop like a pope or any hierarchy. Only sometimes they should meet on international councils in order to discuss difficult matters of the doctrine. Such free councils would be led by the Holy Spirit, and the true doctrine would always turn out.

    Catholic councils are always predetermined. The bishops only led through on the nod the decision of the pope. Hence, the "Holy Spirit" of the Catholic Church is the mind of the pope. The small human mind of the pope was never able to make correct decisions concerning the doctrine, and hence the Roman Church has become a pis-spot of heresies.

    Get off, pope-rat!

    February 18, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • Impeach

      Laws of association impeaches god also, Hung out with the pope to long !!!

      February 18, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Why?

      February 18, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Of course Rainer knows exactly what in in god's mind, as opposed to all the other poor deluded humans. Rainer is also not a bit arrogant. Nope. Really he isn't.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
  6. Johan Johannadanna

    Is it me, or are the Christians here getting even crazier than before? They've been posting some incredibly insane stuff lately.

    February 18, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      R.I.P. Gilda.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Alias

      I think it is all the impossible to justify kid se.x that has them especially agitated.
      That has been broiught up a lot more than usual lately.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • sam

      Some fundies think the world is at war with their beliefs.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
  7. Rainer Braendlein

    The Catholic Church is about to lose all its temporal power. The reason are not only the scandals but also the secular powers want to act independent from the Catholic Church. Ever the Catholic Church was a cloaca of sin but she had powerful protectors who helped her to keep her clean image. Now there is a tendency that the secular powers less and less protect the bad old w-hore. Maybe we experience the transition from the forerunners of the Antichrist (Muhammad and the pope's) to the real Antichrist. It seems that the Antichrist simply is about to destroy his forerunners.

    Catholic priests have ever molested children, or went to the cathouse but the rulers cast a veil of silence over it. The difference between former times and now is only that the evil deeds of the Roman clergy become known by the public.

    February 18, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • Jill

      Rainer Braendlein, congratulations on your steroid use but it won't automatically increase your soup intake and you will precipitate meatballs. Spizzmatt. Arglebunkle terriers in the whodunit. That is the essence of the Siberian banana market in Geneva.

      And never, ever miss an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • sam stone

      wow...the anti-christ....scary stuff

      February 18, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • sam

      Arglebunkle terriers?? Didn't one of those just win the big dog show?

      February 18, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
  8. Rainer Braendlein

    The Catholic Church is about to lose all its temporal power. The reason are not only the scandals but also the secular powers want to act independent from the Catholic Church. Ever the Catholic Church was a cloaca of sin but she had powerful protectors who helped her to keep her clean image. Now there is a tendency that the secular powers less and less protect the bad old w-hore. Maybe we experience the transition from the forerunners of the Antichrist (Muhammad and the pope's) to the real Antichrist. It seems that the Antichrist simply is about the destroy his forerunners.

    Catholic priest have ever molested children, or went to the cathouse but the ruler cast a veil of silence over it. The difference between former times and now is only that the evil deed of the Roman clergy become known by the public.

    February 18, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • Jill

      Rainer Braendlein, congratulations on your steroid use but it won't automatically increase your soup intake and you will precipitate meatballs. Spizzmatt. Arglebunkle terriers in the whodunit. That is the essence of the Siberian banana market in Geneva.

      And never, ever miss an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • sam stone

      That's ridiculous. Mozart would never stay still long enough for an elephant to paint it. A sloth, perhaps

      February 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
  9. Impeach

    Laws of association impeaches god also, Hung out with the pope to long !!!

    February 18, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
  10. The Bottom Line

    So the pope wants them to get together early to rubber-stamp his hand-picked hard-liner replacement?

    Face it: this is a power move. Popey is gaming the system. He's fixing the game. He already knows who will succeed him, and he has used the time and his position to force that choice.

    It's skullduggery business as usual at the Vatican.

    February 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Nope. Read the Italian papers. He is totally incompetent, and Cardinal Bertone won the power game. The "butler" scandal exposed what disarray they are in. Then they lied about the retirement, saying it was a "surprise". In fact, he started renovating his new quarters last Fall. He also can't leave the Vatican or the ICC will arrest him.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • Johnny Guitar

      Betrone? The guy is almost 80.

      I was impressed with his repeated assertions that the pedophilia scandal was the result of a gay inflitration conspiracy. Like gays have nothing better to do.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
  11. M.A.D

    Pope selection engine is loosing steam or interest of the people around the world; they have bigger issues at hand, what do they do with the Pope who is not dead yet!!! Catholic Churches are running around like chicken with head chopped off, clueless.

    February 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
  12. PeterVN

    And the Catholics prove again that religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, the cowardly, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them.

    Check out the fancy robes and lifestyles of the RC high muckymucks. Only fools would give them money. And then there was Mother Theresa, what a cruel, sadistic beotch...

    February 18, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
  13. just sayin

    I have audibly heard God speak. It is not that unusual and only one of the many ways God communicates with us. God bless

    February 18, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      No you haven't.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Ted

      Stow your god p!ss already. There is no proof that a god has ever spoken to a human, ever,

      February 18, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Nope

      It's all in your head.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • clarity

      Sometimes He actually speaks to women and tells them they should abort their fetuses when He knows the fetus is destined to be a sinner. Can't really argue with Him about that.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • just sayin

      What can I tell you it is my sworn testimony that God spoke audibly to me. God bless

      February 18, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      How could you possibly "know" it was a god?

      February 18, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • LinCA

      @just sayin

      You said, "What can I tell you it is my sworn testimony that God spoke audibly to me. God bless"
      One of the most common symptoms of schizophrenia is auditory hallucinations.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
    • just sayin

      Not a god, the God. God bless

      February 18, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • just sayin

      My mind is sounder than yours and I audibly hear God speak to me. We are close personal friends and converse frequently. God bless

      February 18, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • The Bottom Line

      Based on the psychosis of what you post, seeing you admit to audibly hearing God fits in perfectly. You are mentally ill, but all the weird lying things you post under so many names, well, hopefully you don't own any guns.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      just sayin
      Ok, your one god out of the thousands man has made....you still did not answer the question.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @clarity

      "Sometimes He actually speaks to women and tells them they should abort their fetuses when He knows the fetus is destined to be a sinner. Can't really argue with Him about that."

      That's efficiency in a god.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • just sayin

      When God speaks you know who it is I know His voice. God bless

      February 18, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • Say anything.

      @clarity

      @"Sometimes He actually speaks to women and tells them they should abort their fetuses when He knows the fetus is destined to be a sinner. Can't really argue with Him about that."

      @That's efficiency in a god.

      All humans, Christians and atheists, are sinners. And God loves us all the same.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
    • just sayin

      The sound came from my pants, but yes, God did absolutely speak to me. God bless

      February 18, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Say anything.

      You said, "All humans, Christians and atheists, are sinners."
      A sin is a violation of a religious rule or law. Those that don't subscribe to your silly beliefs are not subject to its rules. It's impossible to break a rule that doesn't apply. Atheists are incapable of sin.

      You said, "And God loves us all the same."
      Your imaginary friend is nothing more than that. Imaginary.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
    • Say anything.

      You commit sins. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make that fact go away. And God loves you. You must be truly blessed to have time to post on this story.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:02 pm |
    • Abortion is not healthy for children and other living things

      Stealing names on an anonymous blog is not healthy for children and other living things.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Say anything.

      You said, "You commit sins."
      No, I don't. You may think that I do, but since the rules don't apply, I don't. It is simply a matter of jurisdiction. Just like Canadian law doesn't apply in the US, religious laws don't apply outside the community that voluntarily subjects itself to it.

      You said, "Just because you don't believe it doesn't make that fact go away."
      It's not a fact. What is a fact is that, in the US, everyone has the freedom to pick his or her own religion. To be able to freely pick a religion, the religion of others can't apply. Your religion holds no sway over me. It has no jurisdiction.

      You said, "And God loves you."
      If you say so. Since your god only exists in your mind, you'd be the only one to know.

      You said, "You must be truly blessed to have time to post on this story."
      I am "blessed" with enough intelligence to be able to hold down a good job. Paid holidays is one of the many benefits of that job.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • The Love-Hate

      Jack Nicholson goes to heaven, and realizes that in heaven, he is J.J. "Jake" Gittes. There he is confronted by Jesus.
      Jack asks – who are you?

      Jesus thinks about the good old days and replies "I am the Father and I hate you!"
      Jack reaches out and slaps Jesus right on the cheek.
      Completely caught off guard, Jesus thinks and replies "But I am the Son and I love you!"
      Jack is even more offended by this emotional nitwit and slap Jesus again even harder.
      This really irritates Jesus. "You will obey, I am the Father and I hate you!" He replies.
      Jack answers with another slap.
      "But you don't understand, I am the Son and I love you!" Jesus pleads.
      Jack answers with yet another slap.
      Completely broken, Jesus whimpers "OK OK, enough – I am the Father and the Son and I hate you and I love you. I'm so confused. I will send you back. You won't be happy here."

      February 18, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of SEVERE mental illness

      Say anything.

      You commit sins. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make that fact go away.
      --
      Sorry not fact and sin resides in people's trapped minds.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • just sayin

      It would be a sin to deny the voice of God. God bless

      February 18, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • clarity

      So if the voice of God tells you to abort the fetus you are carrying, and you disobey, I guess that would be a grave sin. OK, just wanted to make sure.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • sam stone

      i've heard god speak, but usually after a belly full of magic mushroooms

      February 18, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • just sayin

      I cannot find my pants. I cannot speak with God again if I do not find my pants. God bless

      February 18, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
  14. Ted

    Sad that this dying Catholic superst.ition still gets any news/blog coverage. Just let it die off like all the god myths before it.

    February 18, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
  15. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    February 18, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Making a wish on a fallinig star changes things.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • Science

      Prayer is the science by which we can attune the human mind and will to the consciousness and will of God. Through prayer, we form a loving, personal relationship with God, and His response is unfailing.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Science

      First of all, I want to say that I am not a christian nor am I associated with any formal religion. But I have discovered a scientific principle that allows properly prayed prayer to work on a higher plain on the back of a simple concept. It goes like this. The scientific rule is this, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, as is related to prayer, ask and ye shall receive. Asking is the action, receiving is the reaction. But in order for you to receive what you ask for, you must ask the right person or being or ent.ity, or thing and you must ask it properly. I have found that praying to everything inexistence works for me. You have to ask appropriately, you must say please and you must mean it and be sincere when you ask for stuff. You must also be very grateful for what you already have or your prayers will not be answered. You must glorify the deity you are praying to and give thanks to them firstly for hearing you out. I pray to the sun because she is a powerful ent.ity and she's near by. I also pray to the planet. But that's basically the science behind prayer, be sincere, ask for what you really want, be it immortality or whatever, Give thanks and glorify your deity, tell her she's awesome, almighty and powerful, and you will make her such. Also, always assume someone is praying to you and automatically answer everyone prayers. Well, that's it for now, you don't have to be religious to pray, there is plenty of scientific reason to pray and its simple physics, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, ask and ye shall receive. Thanks for readin, I love you guys.:-D

      February 18, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • Ted

      There has never been a demonstrated response by a god, ever. Like that guy said before, prayer just makes you hoard cats, and wrecks your knees.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      February 18, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Science

      Did not post above someone is Pis-sed at science LOL

      Peace

      February 18, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • HeavenSense

      Hi prayerbot.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      "Through prayer, we form a loving, personal relationship with God, and His response is unfailing."

      What response is that? Please enlighten me.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • just sayin

      In Soviet Russia, prayer brings ginormous rocks from the sky. God bless

      February 18, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
  16. IsalandAtheist

    I'd quit if had to wear that clown suit too.

    February 18, 2013 at 11:57 am |
  17. Spa*nking

    You need a good one Topher, turn the other che*ek.

    February 18, 2013 at 11:47 am |
  18. Quin

    A lack of belief will have an adverse effect on the unbeliever. It will not always be the same effects on all unbelievers. Some will become morbid and disillusioned. Others will become fatalistic and cynical.

    But are there not happy atheists? Superficially, there are. Sometimes unbelief will show itself in a "happy, go lucky" att.itude toward life. Not every atheist takes Sartre's gloomy perspective.

    But in taking a closer look, we will find a very shallow, superficial happiness. There will be a lack of depth to human love and commitment. If your fellow human beings are here not by Divine plan but due to uncontrolled cosmic forces blindly rolling the dice, then love tends to lose its meaning. Human relationships are devalued when humans have no purpose.

    They say about 90% of us believe in God in this country. But the term "God" covers a lot of territory in today's world. Far fewer than 90% believe to the point of their lives being effected. No one suggests that this statistic means that 90% of us are living like we believe in God.

    Last century, German philosopher Nietchze issued this challenge: "Show me that you are redeemed and then I will believe in your Redeemer." While the belief or lack of belief of others ought not to have any bearing on what I do with Jesus, he does have a point. Many in high places profess belief in God, call upon the nation to pray during times of crises, invoke the name of God in various ceremonies, and go to church. But then they live immorally, engage in corruption, lie, cheat and steal.

    I expect that there are probably fewer people that really believe in God than the 90% suggests. Too many of us who say we do live like we don't.

    February 18, 2013 at 11:41 am |
    • LinCA

      @Quin

      Holy Fucking Shit! You are completely delusional, aren't you?

      You said, "A lack of belief will have an adverse effect on the unbeliever."
      Remaining blissfully ignorant does have its benefits.

      You said, "It will not always be the same effects on all unbelievers. Some will become morbid and disillusioned. Others will become fatalistic and cynical."
      Most will live perfectly happy lives.

      Having imaginary friends helps the delusional believers to put their minds at ease. It provides easy answers for questions that may have none. It allows them to remain completely ignorant.

      But those that have the ability to rationally evaluate the case for gods, will inevitably lose the irrational superstitions. Once you stop believing in the Tooth Fairy, the barriers back to blissful ignorance are almost certainly insurmountable.

      February 18, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Quin

      LinCA = fatalistic and cynical Fact. Proof. And thaaaaaank you for your help.

      February 18, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • LinCA

      WHAT AN OUTRAGE! I'M FURIOUS!!!!

      February 18, 2013 at 11:58 am |
    • LinCA

      Furryioush!

      February 18, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Quin

      You said, "LinCA = fatalistic and cynical"
      I am neither. Being skeptical of unsubstantiated claims doesn't mean I'm fatalistic or cynical. I simply don't believe in fairy tales.

      How does your god differ from the Tooth Fairy, other than that you were probably encouraged to stop believing in it when you ran out of teeth to trade? Could you go back to believing in it? How about the Easter Bunny?

      While you are free to keep believing you have an imaginary friend, and while it probably helps you get through the day, some people will outgrow them. Some people manage to tie their shoes without having to request help from sky fairies.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
    • LinCA

      @LinCA (the fake one of course, as I don't typically talk to myself)

      Did I hit a nerve?

      February 18, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
    • Quin

      Oh, sorry you are just morbid and disillusioned. Your above post PROVES that.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Quin

      You said, "Oh, sorry you are just morbid and disillusioned. Your above post PROVES that."
      How, exactly, do you come to that conclusion?

      How is not believing in fairy tales "morbid", or "disillusioned"?

      February 18, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • LinCA

      I JUS CAN'T LET ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION THAT IS DIFFERNT THAN MINE. I GET SO SO MAD.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Poor Quin. You really are desperate for attention, aren't you?

      February 18, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • LinCA

      You said, "I JUS CAN'T LET ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION THAT IS DIFFERNT THAN MINE. I GET SO SO MAD."
      Don't get mad. May I recommend some anger management, or another beer? Spell checking and less caps lock will also help.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • Quin

      (missing)LINKA – What religion do you think I am in, if you KNOW I follow fairy tales???

      February 18, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Doesn't matter, doofus. They're all fairy tales.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • Doobs

      Make unfounded claims about nonbelievers, then use any response as proof of claims.

      Seems legit.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • Quin

      Tom Tom, not even trying for the superficial "happy, go lucky" att.itude. Morbid and disillusioned from the get go.
      Thaaaaank you for proving me right.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's "happy-go-lucky," moron.

      You're really lousy at this.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Bass Man

      Somebody is fishing – and the 2 desperate hungry fish are biting – and getting caught hook, line and sinker.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, sweetie, you must be dumber than Quin. Except you ARE Quin, among other sock-puppets.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Quin

      You said, "(missing)LINKA"
      Nice.

      You said, "What religion do you think I am in, if you KNOW I follow fairy tales???"
      Based on the fact that you capitalize "god", I expect you believe it to be a real entity. And based on your reference of Jesus in your original post, my guess would be one of the 40,000 (give or take) versions of christianity.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Damocles

      While I do enjoy a zombie movie from time to time, I don't think I'm morbid.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, Damo. I doubt this bozo knows what the word "morbid" means.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • Damocles

      @tom

      Hey, hey. Yeah, it's funny when people toss around words that they don't know the definition of, or use incorrectly, or have no concept of what they are talking about.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • it's QUINN

      The above tome by 'Quin' was stolen directly from:
      Jon W. Quinn 
      The Final Page
      From Expository Files 4.9; September 1997

      February 18, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @it's QUINN,

      lol...kind of sad, though.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • Bass Man

      That's what I was saying!

      February 18, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
  19. Topher

    Good morning, everyone! What shall we talk about today?

    February 18, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • baphomet

      Ga.y male pen.is docking.

      Google image it.

      February 18, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • Topher

      Pervert

      February 18, 2013 at 11:34 am |
    • baphomet

      That's funny coming from you, considering your website, prolapsed.net.

      February 18, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      I'd be interested in your response to @Mass Debater's question this morning on another article, specifically, this section:

      "Topher 'Everything in the bible is true and it's never been found to be wrong.'
      Atheist 'But it says here that God made the universe in six days, says God destroyed early civilization with a global flood, says there were talking donkeys, guys living in a fish belly for 3 days, a virgin birth and resurrecting the dead. Does the fossil record, the geological record and other historic evidence support these pretty fantastical claims?'"

      Not that it was a literal quote, but I think he got the gist. I find this approach by apologists very common and really don't understand how they can maintain the inerrancy of the Bible in the face of such contradictions.

      How do you define inerrancy?

      February 18, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • Topher

      Inerrancy means, in the original language, there were no errors in the Bible. Of course we now have translation errors and misspellings, but we'd still say it is inerrant.

      February 18, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      There are also additions, Topher. Some have vast implications regarding Christian doctrine.

      February 18, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      Are you saying that all errors in the current version are translation or misspelling errors?

      February 18, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • Topher

      Which addition are you thinking of specifically?

      February 18, 2013 at 11:58 am |
    • Morning

      Topher
      When god speaks to you in what language does he speak? When god speaks to an Italian, Frenchman, etc, what language does god speak in?

      February 18, 2013 at 11:59 am |
    • Topher

      ME II

      That's the only ones that come to mind at the moment. What have you got?

      February 18, 2013 at 11:59 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How about your inability to respond to the presence of fossilized dinosaur footprints at the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, MD, Gopher?

      How does such a discovery square with the nonsensical belief that the earth was created 6000 years ago?

      Or are you going to pretend you didn't see this post, too?

      February 18, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hurry it up, Gopher. Your credibility is slipping with every minute you delay.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:08 pm |
    • Topher

      Morning

      If you are insinuating I've ever audibly heard God, that's not how it works.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • Morning

      Topher how do you commune with your god then; in whatever manner how does the big guy respond, pray tell, and does he respond the same to all people in Africa and Europe?

      February 18, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Well, since you obviously only see and hear what you want, you are hardly a credible source of information about the bible or god.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • Morning

      Topher
      I am trying to figure out how the "word" of god was/is transmitted to humans, how do they know it is god?

      February 18, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • Topher

      Morning

      " I am trying to figure out how the "word" of god was/is transmitted to humans, how do they know it is god?"

      We have God's word in the Bible.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The bible wasn't written by god. Unless you can tell us how god wrote it. Did he use a pencil? Computer? Ball-point pen? Quill?

      February 18, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • Morning

      Topher
      Thank you for that. So what kind of screwed up ingnorant god could communicate to mankind his "word" that has to be picked through to figure which of the interpretations is correct. There is so much BS around what the bible babble actually means, so many different versions, so many contradictions and changes. Your god seems to barely get his message across in a coherent manner, pretty pathetic god you have got going for you.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • Topher

      What else should we talk about?

      February 18, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Topher, did god tell you how dinosaur tracks came to be found in Greenbelt, MD? How can that be, if the earth is only 6000 years old?

      February 18, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • Damocles

      We have a deity's word, that wasn't written by a deity, was originally perfect and hence should survive any translation, yet somehow it doesn't because that's one of our exit strategies because we can then say it was translated wrong, or that murdering people makes more sense when seen in the original texts.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Your 'god' apparently doesn't give you much in the way of courage, Topher. Otherwise, you'd be able to respond honestly to my question. But you won't, because you don't REALLY want to discuss anything you don't choose to acknowledge. If the subject in any way casts doubt on your belief, you just ignore it.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • Topher

      Morning

      C'mon, dude. We can talk about this without the insults.

      "So what kind of screwed up ingnorant god could communicate to mankind his "word" that has to be picked through to figure which of the interpretations is correct."

      So you don't like it because it requires you to study?

      "There is so much BS around what the bible babble actually means, so many different versions, so many contradictions and changes."

      Nope. No contradictions. One version. What changes?

      "Your god seems to barely get his message across in a coherent manner, pretty pathetic god you have got going for you."

      If there's confusion it's man-made. We are corrupt, not God.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Does it explain how fossilized dinosaur tracks millions of years old came to be here?

      Poor Topher. You look worse when you can't answer.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Damocles

      Yeah, there are no contradictions for topher, he believes everyone deserves to die by his deity's hands for flaws that the deity created.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • Doobs

      @TTTPS

      Clearly, those dinosaur tracks were planted by satan to confuse nonbelievers.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • Topher

      Damocles

      If you know of a contradiction, present it.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Topher

      Doobs

      "Clearly, those dinosaur tracks were planted by satan to confuse nonbelievers."

      What's the problem with dinosaurs? They're in the Bible.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • Morning

      Topher
      Lets see, how about. How did Paul manage to pick the fly sh*it out of the pepper when putting the jesus myth together to get the whole christian nonsense up and running. Some may say Paul did a decent job but just how did zombie jesus manage to ascend from different places, at different times, in front of different witnesses, perhaps he was drawn and quarted after death.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • fred

      Tom Tom
      “The bible wasn't written by god”
      =>God spoke the creation into being. John wrote in the beginning was the word and the word was with God. The Bible is a collection of the soundbites of God. God has always revealed himself through the creation. Inspired people like Moses jotted down out of their creative abilities the word of God.

      You know the word of God and it is clear to you is it not? You have the creative ability to grasp the word if you choose. All created things are of God including you. God is.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Topher,

      "So you don't like it because it requires you to study?"

      You're missing the point here. If everyone who studied the bible came to the same conclusions it would be more convincing that it is a message from an all-knowing god. The very fact that intelligent, well-meaning peoplecan radically disagree indicates that, were this the message of god, communication was not a high priority.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • Damocles

      Oh, topher, I'm no biblical scholar able to cut and paste all manner of biblical quotes in a single bound. I take a more common sense approach, which is beyond your capability, I know. A loving deity who murders the world? Contradiction. A loving deity who tortures through direct or indirect means to keep people in line? Contradiction. An all powerful deity, a perfect deity who makes flaws? Contradiction. A supposedly perfect book that allows one person to love and another to murder? Contradiction. People who say that 6 days equals whatever amount of time they need to try and make it make more sense? Contradiction.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • Damocles

      Let me translate for fred: Stuff was made, god did it. The end.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
    • Doobs

      What's the problem with dinosaurs? They're in the Bible.

      So are talking snakes, talking donkeys, talking shrubs, the sun "standing still", a man living inside a fish for three days, and a zombified "savior".

      We know that dinosaurs actually existed, because there is evidence of them. The rest of this stuff, not so much.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • Topher

      Saraswati

      My question would be why do the people who study it come up with different answers? Could it be an agenda? Could it be they don't hold it as being from God? Again, you have fallible man "interpreting" what God meant.

      Then, when you have disagreements, you must ask what they are over. That's where "majors" and "minors" come in. When we agree on the majors, but disagree on the minors, we are still brothers in Christ. It's when you minimize the majors and give more importance to the minors that you become a heretic and are outside of orthodoxy. That's why Baptists and Lutherans are separate denominations, but are still brothers.

      February 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • Topher

      Damocles

      "A loving deity who murders the world?" Justice.

      "A loving deity who tortures through direct or indirect means to keep people in line?" Justice.

      "An all powerful deity, a perfect deity who makes flaws?" What flaws?

      "A supposedly perfect book that allows one person to love and another to murder?" For example?

      "People who say that 6 days equals whatever amount of time they need to try and make it make more sense?" Corrupt man. God said it was 6 days, so it was 6 days.

      None of these are contradictions.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • Damocles

      So the deity allows misinterpretations of its perfect word. Makes sense if your deity is a warmonger who enjoys seeming people at each others throats.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Topher,

      The problem I have with those answers is that they assume that God has some reason for not making it clearer – say with a brand new edition in modern language on DVD. Otherwise we're left with a god who is happy to see people struggling to the point of war when he could easily fix the situation with clearer information. In response the Christian has to come back and argue that either 1) no matter how it was worded some people wouldn't understand (which is absurd as writing does matter) or 2) God for some reason wants to see people struggle (which makes him rather unpleasant, but not totally out of line with other historic gods).

      February 18, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • Damocles

      My, my, you are a regular little fanatic aren't you? I dare say it would take very little for your local deity representative to convince you to take up arms in the name of 'justice'.

      You think humans are flawed and were created by a perfect thing. Contradiction.
      When one person can use the bible to justify love and another can use it to justify hate. Contradiction.

      Stop with all the human error BS. It does you know good. A perfect message, a perfect whatever, can not be flawed, can not be interpreted as anything but perfect.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • Topher

      Damocles

      "So the deity allows misinterpretations of its perfect word. Makes sense if your deity is a warmonger who enjoys seeming people at each others throats."

      If you want to change God's word, you'll answer for it. That's what some "Bible scholars" are doing. They don't like one passage, so they "interpret" it to fit their own will. That's not God's fault. Again, it's sinful man. He allows it, just like He allows you to blaspheme His name, but God is just and people will get what they deserve.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Morning

      C'mon Topher
      No response to the ascension contradictions. Jesus said he would be back and he did if you believe the bible. He ascended the day after he rose in one story but he would have had to come back for the encore 40 days later, all in front of Chad like eyewitnesses. So he left came back and left again, so you all are actually waiting for the third coming of christ, according to the "word" of god the bible. Logical and reasonable because it says so in your bible.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Gotta love unintended consequence!

      Topher is trying to convert people, and bless him, he does! He has converted many to atheism with his absurd answers and obvious dishonesty, but he has never converted a single person to Christianity.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • Damocles

      It's telling that you make no effort to say that your deity does not want people at each other's throats, but you do approve of deity sanctioned mass murder.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • just wondering

      How is it mass murder when criminals are tried, convicted and executed?

      February 18, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • Topher

      Saraswati

      There are new versions with modern language to make it a bit easier to read than King James Version. I suggest English Standard or New American Standard. They're very good. And of course if you get them in study editions, there's tons of notes to help you understand.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Topher, It still doesn't address the point that intelligent people disagree on both the translation and the meanings of the translation. A god consistent with the Christian image would provide a new edition ... along with enough evidence to convince all but the insane.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • Saraswati

      And then he'd cure the insane.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • Damocles

      @just

      Ahhhhh... so your deity had a trial and sentenced whatever the population of the earth was at the time to death. Hmmm.... some guy tried to do that not so very long ago... last name started with an H, ended with -itler.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • .

      And yet, AND YET, when someone bring up unicorns being in the KJV, it's suddenly too hard to translate from Hebrew. Lol. Or "hey, you have to understand the history behind the KJV." Really? If it is the perfect word, its meaning would be abundantly clear in ANY language. It's God's word. He's perfect.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Damocles

      So now the perfect message needs a study guide to go along with it. Curious.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      "Inerrancy means, in the original language, there were no errors in the Bible. Of course we now have translation errors and misspellings, but we'd still say it is inerrant."
      "That's the only ones that come to mind at the moment. What have you got?"

      Let's start with @Mass Debater's examples, then if needed, move on to others.
      "Topher 'Everything in the bible is true and it's never been found to be wrong.'
      Atheist 'But it says here that God made the universe in six days, says God destroyed early civilization with a global flood, says there were talking donkeys, guys living in a fish belly for 3 days, a virgin birth and resurrecting the dead. Does the fossil record, the geological record and other historic evidence support these pretty fantastical claims?'"

      February 18, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • just wondering

      If mans justice is not to be considered murder but lawful execution how much more so God's?

      February 18, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • Damocles

      @.

      Yes, the perfection idea really kills the whole idea. I don't think people who believe really understand what perfection means.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • Impeach

      Topher

      Laws of association impeaches god also, Hung out with the pope to long !!!

      February 18, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Morning

      Topher
      When you do not have an answer you ignore. Leys try this: Why did they change thou shall not kill to thou shall not murder. How can thw "word" of god be dic*ked around like that by humans? No changes in the bible the RCC even dumped the second commandment when it suited them..

      February 18, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • Damocles

      @just

      Call me crazy, but even with my love of seeing the guilty punished, I would still question an insti-tution that sent millions to die. Mr. Hitler wouldn't have had to try too hard to convince you that he was justified, would he?

      February 18, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, so you did see my question, Gopher. Too bad you ignored most of it. How does the fact that these dinosaur track fossils are millions of years old? How's that square with your earth being 6000 years old, honey?

      Not go back to ignoring what's uncomfortable for you, you phony.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • Damocles

      Ahh crap, just looked at an earlier post of mine. I put know good instead of no good. My apologies.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Science

      Topher must have an ingore list too, do you Topher?

      February 18, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • just wondering

      How did those human footprints get in with the dinosaur prints?

      February 18, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Topher

      Gotta love unintended consequence!

      " ... but he has never converted a single person to Christianity."

      True. I can't convert anyone.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Of course Topher has an "ignore list." He ignores the posts that ask questions he can't answer from people who best him every time he posts. He'll manage to squirt out "What's wrong with dinosaurs? They're in the Bible," while failing to answer how their fossilized tracks are found millions of years after they died when the world is only 6000 years old.

      He's just another dimwit.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • Eric G

      What language was used to write the first Bible?

      February 18, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      @just wondering: How did you earn enough dough to buy a computer while working in a sheltered workshop for mentally disabled adults?

      February 18, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Morning

      Topher
      You see why people call you a lyer. You come on this blog almost everyday and ask what topic to discuss but as soon as you can't provide an answer you clam up, pathetic fanatic troll.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Damocles

      Well I'm off to check my eyelids for cracks. Ya'll have a pleasent day. To topher and just, I can only hope that your uniforms and shiny black boots fit comfortably.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • Topher

      Saraswati

      "It still doesn't address the point that intelligent people disagree on both the translation and the meanings of the translation."

      Again, I think we need to differentiate between those that hold it as the Word of God and those that pick and choose. Those of us that hold it as the Word generally only disagree on minor things ... for instance to Baptize as infants or only when you become a believer. And since Baptism isn't what saves you, this is a minor issue.

      And as far as translations, there's some very bad translations out there. They blatantly change meanings of words and give certain agendas excuses to continue in their sins. If you question a translation, there are some very good websites that grade them. Since we have the books in their original language, it's easy to figure out what should be there.

      "A god consistent with the Christian image would provide a new edition ... along with enough evidence to convince all but the insane."

      We don't need a new edition. God gave us everything we need to know to be saved in these 66 books. And of course you know what I'm going to say about evidence ... that there's tons of it out there. It's just a matter of whether you are willing to look into it and what conclusion you come to after you weigh it. Also, because the canon is closed, we know there won't be any more revealed.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Did yer god explain how million-year-old dinosaur footprints came to found on a planet that is "6000 years old,' you dishonest little sh!t? No, because it didn't happen. The earth isn't 6000 years old and the bible isn't based on fact.

      No wonder the church is dying. No reasonable, rational person believes such nonsense. And those who do can't explain the contradictions so they just ignore them, as you do, Gopher.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • Topher

      Morning

      "Why did they change thou shall not kill to thou shall not murder"

      My understanding is that the word in the original language translates to murder.

      "How can thw "word" of god be dic*ked around like that by humans?"

      If the word really was "murder" then we are just fixing a translation error. Why do you have a problem with this? It isn't changing God's word. It's fixing our mistake.

      "No changes in the bible the RCC even dumped the second commandment when it suited them."

      As a protestant, I have a LOT of problems with the teachings of the RCC.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Live4Him

      ME II : But it says here that God made the universe in six days

      What archeological evidence would you expect if this were true?

      ME II : there were talking donkeys

      What archeological evidence would you expect if this were true?

      ME II : guys living in a fish belly for 3 days

      What archeological evidence would you expect if this were true?

      ME II : a virgin birth

      What archeological evidence would you expect if this were true?

      ME II : resurrecting the dead

      What archeological evidence would you expect if this were true?

      February 18, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ahahhhahhhhahhahahha! "I have a lot of problems with the RCC." This is priceless. So YOUR views are correct and theirs aren't?

      How is it a god would allow that to occur and not make his word so clear it couldn't HAVE more than one interpretation, you doofus? You really are dim, aren't you?

      February 18, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Science

      Science

      Topher are you slowly finding your place in the cycle of LIFE ?

      Hint Look up Body World Cycle of Life a bunch of dead humans hanging around !!!

      Did not hear or see any souls when viewed... where did they go topher ???

      February 18, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Topher

      just wondering

      "How did those human footprints get in with the dinosaur prints?"

      This isn't a problem for the Christian worldview. Job clearly demonstrates dinosaurs lived at the same time as man.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • just wondering

      It was science that found the human dinosaur footprints mixed and no one has mentioned 6000 years except you tom.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Morning : When you do not have an answer you ignore.

      See how couragious atheists are? First, they mob you and then when you cannot respond fast enough, they claim you're ignoring their posts!

      @Morning : Why did they change thou shall not kill to thou shall not murder.

      Murder applies to human beings only, while killing can apply to any living thing. The Hebrew word AND the context of this passage is directed toward human beings.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Topher

      Eric G

      "What language was used to write the first Bible?"

      The original books were written in 3 languages ... Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. If you mean which language was the first compilation written in, I'd bet it was Greek, but I'm honestly not sure.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      @Just stupid: Yes, Gopher's mentioned it and so has LiverDoneFailed. The "footprints" you idiots are talking about were determined not to be human at all. Too bad for you that you not only ignore questions but also rational answers.

      February 18, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Comedy gold, you three stooges. Thanks for showing your true colors.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Science

      The Craetionist to EASY LIVE 4 HIM

      All trying to defend each other !

      The END IS NEAR and HERE !!! Facts work Best

      A War Without End, With Earth's Carbon Cycle Held in the Balance

      Feb. 13, 2013 — The greatest battle in Earth's history has been going on for hundreds of millions of years – it isn't over yet – and until now no one knew it existed, scientists reported Feb. 13 in the journal Nature.

      Peace
      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130213132323.htm

      I do not expect reply as i am on your ignore list !

      February 18, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Topher

      Morning

      " You see why people call you a lyer."

      That's fine. I am a liar. I call myself one. I'm also a thief, a blasphemer, an adulterer and a murderer.

      "You come on this blog almost everyday and ask what topic to discuss but as soon as you can't provide an answer you clam up, pathetic fanatic troll."

      Which question have I supposedly refused to answer?

      February 18, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Topher : "How did those human footprints get in with the dinosaur prints?" Job clearly demonstrates dinosaurs lived at the same time as man.

      The archeological record does too. One Egyptian carving has two sauropod's necks intertwined. A stegosaur was carved into an Asian temple. A rock drawing out West has dinosaurs on it. South American pottery has dinosaurs depicted. All confirming the story found in Job. If you get a chance, check out the movie/book on 'Dragons or Dinosaurs'.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • fred

      Tom Tom
      I believe in a 6 day creation period and on the 7th day God rested in what was created. Everything outside of that (new earth or old earth theology, theistic evolution and the likes) is man showing off whatever remnants of the image of God that remain in man.
      Now, given God spoke creation in being the answer is in Gods voice not the science of created things.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Morning

      Well that was a artful dodge, kill and murder got mixed up in translation, christian denial and apologetice in one fell swoop. How about the ascension bit, how do you ascend one day then ascend forty days later without coming back for an encore, all in fornt of so called witnesses?

      February 18, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Topher : The original books were written in 3 languages ... Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. If you mean which language was the first compilation written in, I'd bet it was Greek, but I'm honestly not sure.

      Each book was written in the language of the time:

      Genesis : unknown (12 tablets translated by Moses into Hebrew)
      OT : Hebrew with a scattering of Aramaic. I think Daniel was written in Aramaic, but I'm not sure. Some of the Psalms were in Aramaic.
      NT: Greek
      Septuagint : Greek (translation of OT into Greek)

      So, if you treat the NT and the Septuagint as the "first Bible" then it was Greek. However, these were treated as 66 seperate books at that time. When they were translated/compiled into a single book, the language of the time was Latin.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Morning : Well that was a artful dodge, kill and murder got mixed up in translation

      Not at all. In the 1600's, the term kill was understood to apply to human beings, but now is understood to apply to all living things. Language is not static, but rather it is dynamic.

      @Morning : How about the ascension bit, how do you ascend one day then ascend forty days later without coming back for an encore, all in fornt of so called witnesses?

      Care to elicidate this? Do you have Biblical references?

      February 18, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • Topher

      Morning

      "Well that was a artful dodge, kill and murder got mixed up in translation, christian denial and apologetice in one fell swoop."

      Reject it if you want. It doesn't really matter. Is that what you will give as an excuse on Judgment Day? "God, how could I believe in you when Christians couldn't decide if the word was "kill" or "murder." Good luck with that.

      "How about the ascension bit, how do you ascend one day then ascend forty days later without coming back for an encore, all in fornt of so called witnesses?"

      I have no idea what you are talking about. What are the passages?

      February 18, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Sorry, Topher. You did ask and I forgot to get back with you. What additions? A significant one to trinitarians (you may be one -most Christians are) is 1 John 5:7 which has the long-disputed addition "... testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the ..." Most modern Bibles give either the text with the addition or the text without and show the alternative text as a footnote.

      Another is the addition of Mark 16:9-20 which adjusts this gospel so that it has an account of the risen Christ.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • .

      So 'behemoth' = 'dinosaur'. Right. Could be a handy mistranslation.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Live4Him

      Correction: Care to elicidate this?

      Care to elucidate this?

      February 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @. : So 'behemoth' = 'dinosaur'. Right. Could be a handy mistranslation.

      Dinosaur is a term that was coined in the last 175 years. 'Behemoth' is the Hebrew word appearing in the text. We don't know if they apply to the same animal, but given the description, it appears likely.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • sam stone

      perhaps we can talk about why someone would worship such a vindictive, petty pr1ck, if not out of abject fear

      February 18, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him,
      "ME II : But it says here that God made the universe in six days
      What archeological evidence would you expect if this were true?"

      Less than ~4 billion year history in the geologic record or ~13 billion years event from cosmology. For example, only one set of magnetic directions in the sea floor instead of the multiple bands, no evidence of previous continent configurations due to plate tectonic, no mountains other than volcanic, naturally occurring Caesium-135 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinct_radionuclide), an expanding visibility horizon displaying new stars at a specific distance about 6,000 t0 10,000 light-years away, etc., etc., etc.,

      "ME II : there were talking donkeys
      What archeological evidence would you expect if this were true?"

      Fossils evidence of donkeys that had the morphological capacity to speak.

      "ME II : guys living in a fish belly for 3 days
      What archeological evidence would you expect if this were true?"

      No archaeological evidence, I have no reason to think this is plausible or that it happened, but regardless it would show up archaeologically.

      "ME II : a virgin birth
      What archeological evidence would you expect if this were true?"

      There wouldn't be an archaeological evidence for a single birth. Actually birth by a "virgin", depending on the definition, is possible, but birth without any contribution from a father is not. Why do you think it actually happened?

      "ME II : resurrecting the dead
      What archeological evidence would you expect if this were true?"

      Again, why would archaeological evidence be pertinent?

      The Bible claims that these things happened and some Christians claim that they all happened as written, so why would you need me to speculate on "what archaeological evidence would you expect..."?

      The current archaeological evidence points to most of this things/events NOT happening. Why should I speculate on other evidence?

      February 18, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • Science

      For creationist how did the air you suck in 24/7 get created???

      Love to see reply.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • Morning

      L4H/Topher
      Mark 16:9-19 ascends in Jeruslem
      Luke 24:50-51 in Bethany
      Acts 1:7-12 at Mount Olivet much later.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • ME II

      "... but regardless it would show up archaeologically."
      Should read
      "... but regardless it would [not] show up archaeologically."

      February 18, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • Topher

      Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I tried to find something on the 1 John passage you noted. I couldn't find anything.

      You are correct that the passages you mentioned in Mark do not seem to have been written by Mark. A majority of Greek manuscripts do contain them, the earlier ones do not. But these passages do not contradict anything taught elsewhere, thus there's no reason to take them out.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      To me what's missing is a discussion in the Torah as to whether dinosaurs were kosher. As in: If they are reptiles, no. If they are more birdlike, then probably yes.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • Morning

      L4H/Topher
      According to Acts 1 it states that the resurrected jesus stayed with the disciples for forty days before ascending into heaven at Mount Olivet. I am sure there is something from the apologetics web sites to square this obvious contradiction, you always do. See I have faith in you guys.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Topher

      Science

      "For creationist how did the air you suck in 24/7 get created???"

      You asked this last week and my answer hasn't changed. God creates it through plant life.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Topher, look for the Comma Johanneum or Johannine Comma. It's well-known.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @ME II : Less than ~4 billion year history in the geologic record or ~13 billion years event from cosmology.

      This is an example of apriori reasoning. You've presumed that the proposed geological record is accurate and that Genesis is wrong. This precludes ANY evidence from convincing you otherwise.

      @ME II : Fossils evidence of donkeys that had the morphological capacity to speak.

      This is an example of apriori reasoning. You've presumed that soft tissue (i.e. vocal cords) of ONE individual animal will leave fossil evidence. The speaking donkey was called out in Scripture as unusual, but you want all of them to now speak.

      @ME II : No archaeological evidence, I have no reason to think this is plausible or that it happened, but regardless it would show up archaeologically.

      You seem confused. Would you expect evidence or not? Is your apriori beliefs hindering you from being objective?

      @ME II : There wouldn't be an archaeological evidence for a single birth. Actually birth by a "virgin", depending on the definition, is possible, but birth without any contribution from a father is not.

      Again, you've employed reasoning dependent upon apriori beliefs. Virgin birth implies the lack of intercourse prior to the birth – which is never left as fossil evidence.

      @ME II : Why do you think it actually happened?

      I don't doubt hisotrical records without justification.

      @ME II : Again, why would archaeological evidence be pertinent?

      Ummmm.... Because you ASKED for it?!?!?

      @ME II : so why would you need me to speculate on "what archaeological evidence would you expect..."? The current archaeological evidence points to most of this things/events NOT happening. Why should I speculate on other evidence?

      What 'current archaeological evidence' do you have that disputes these claims?

      February 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • Topher

      Morning

      In the verses you give, please tell me which specific verses gives their location.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • Topher

      Morning

      Glad to see you are a man of faith. I really don't see the problem you are attempting to bring to light. Yes, Jesus made several appearances over 40 days after His resurrection. It does not say He was continually with them.

      February 18, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Science

      To topher for your educational NEEDS!!! Made it easy for you.

      NOTE: PRINCIPLES are FACTS

      Principles of Evolution, Ecology and Behavior (EEB 122)

      Geology and climate have shaped the development of life tremendously. This has occurred in the form of processes such as the oxygenation of the atmosphere, mass extinctions, tectonic drift, and disasters such as floods and volcanic eruptions. Life, particularly bacteria, has also been able to impact the geological makeup of the planet through metabolic processes.

      00:00 – Chapter 1. Introduction
      02:16 – Chapter 2. The Oxygenation of the Atmosphere
      09:08 – Chapter 3. Evidence of Climate Change
      17:36 – Chapter 4. Geological Impact on Life
      29:37 – Chapter 5. Mass Extinctions
      42:19 – Chapter 6. Earthquakes, Eruptions, and Floods
      46:38 – Chapter 7. Conclusion

      Complete course materials are available at the Open Yale Courses website: http://open.yale.edu/courses

      This course was recorded in Spring 2009.

      Category

      Education

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Dl_Vs-ZkY

      Peace

      February 18, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • bobk52

      Gopher I'm in no mood for your crap on this beautiful day.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Morning : Mark 16:9-19 ascends in Jeruslem; Luke 24:50-51 in Bethany; Acts 1:7-12 at Mount Olivet much later.

      Mark 16:9-19 : This spans a period of time, all which does not necessarily occur outside of the tomb.

      Luke 24:50-51: This passage states : 'the vicinity of Bethany' Which is a Sabbath day’s walk to the east of Jerusalem

      Acts 1:7-12 : This passage states : Then they returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk from the city.

      So, all three passages refer to the same basic area.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him
      ME II : Less than ~4 billion year history in the geologic record or ~13 billion years event from cosmology.

      Live4Him: "This is an example of apriori reasoning. You've presumed that the proposed geological record is accurate and that Genesis is wrong. This precludes ANY evidence from convincing you otherwise."

      Incorrect. Apriori means prior to, or without, experience or evidence, but there is plenty of evidence that shows a ~4 billion year old earth. For example : paleomagnetic bands, plate tectonics, non-volcanic mountains, extinct radionuclides like Caesium-135, stars visible 13+ billion light-years away, etc. etc..

      (continued...)

      February 18, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • Morning

      Topher
      It would be better to read the passage for your sel, but
      Luke 24:50 Bethany
      Acts !:12 Mount Olivet
      Mark 16:7 were it indicates jesus is going from the tomb in Jerusalem into Galilee were he ascends.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him,
      "You seem confused. Would you expect evidence or not? Is your apriori beliefs hindering you from being objective?"
      "Ummmm.... Because you ASKED for it?!?!?"

      I was questioning the "archaeologic" specification. I was hoping that you had evidence for your claims not that you would try to get me to speculate on what that evidence might be.

      "What 'current archaeological evidence' do you have that disputes these claims?"
      Yet, again... " paleomagnetic bands, plate tectonics, non-volcanic mountains, extinct radionuclides like Caesium-135, stars visible 13+ billion light-years away, etc. etc.." Among, many others.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4 Him,

      Again, you've employed reasoning dependent upon apriori beliefs. Virgin birth implies the lack of intercourse prior to the birth – which is never left as fossil evidence.

      As I said, "Actually birth by a 'virgin', depending on the definition, is possible..."

      February 18, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @ME II : Apriori means prior to, or without, experience or evidence, but there is plenty of evidence that shows a ~4 billion year old earth.

      There are plenty of THEORIES about the age of the earth, but how do we calibrate their measurments? We cannot. Therefore, to trust them means to lean upon apriori reasoning.

      @ME II : I was questioning the "archaeologic" specification. I was hoping that you had evidence for your claims not that you would try to get me to speculate on what that evidence might be.

      My point is that all of the issues you raised would be based upon apriori reasoning or totally lacking in the archeological record because the specific case precludes fossil evidence. Since you ASKED for it, you obviously thought otherwise.

      BTW – Why do you think that so many of the posts attack Christianity, but evolution is RARELY attacked / defended? This religion is presumed to be true.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @ME II : As I said, "Actually birth by a 'virgin', depending on the definition, is possible..."

      You promptly qualified the definition to exclude the virgin birth in the Biblical record – thus apriori.

      BTW – The page has rolled so I'll be leaving this page.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Morning

      L4H
      That is one of the difficulties, the vicinity of Bethany in you version as far as Bethany in mine, lots of wiggle room in the different versions.

      February 18, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Liver done Failed, there is absolutely NO scientific evidence that man and dinosaurs co-existed. None. Cave drawings and Biblical mumbo-jumbo prove nothing of the sort.

      The "human" footprints you contend were found with dinosaur prints were determined not to be human at all, but those of a dinosaur.

      Nice try. No wonder people laugh at fundies like you and Gopher and fred. You're hilariously ignorant.

      February 18, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • fred

      Tom Tom
      I said God spoke creation into being. The problem is you are trapped in a materialistic world (material girl does not understand God talk but writes good music). We are not talking about God who is limited in any way shape or form. Now, that could well be the way God described it to Moses or what Moses picked up from the in-depth conversation on the origin of baryonic matter we cannot know. What we do know is the absolute truth that stands and has stood since the beginning.

      February 18, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Freddy, you don't know what occurred that set off the Big Bang. No one does. Stop pretending that you do. It's tiresome and dull, just like you.

      The only fact you have is that you believe in a god-creator. You don't have a shred of evidence that one exists. None of you who claim to are doing anything but lying and dishonestly calling your beliefs facts. They aren't.

      February 18, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • fred

      fred

      Tom Tom
      Last I heard atheists believed in relativism. Truth all is relative to beliefs (true or false of the population or those in power) that are based on the then norms of that society. If the norms of society are that God exists and is the creator this is truth under your own construct of relative truth!
      Gopher and I are not liars and Chad is the most brilliant man alive.

      February 18, 2013 at 5:14 pm |
    • sam stone

      i am interested to know why you are such a snivelling coward, but, being a snivelling coward, you are not likely to come forth with the answer

      February 18, 2013 at 8:36 pm |
  20. Science

    Article states leaving for summer place by helicoter, pressure must be mounting maybe.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/15/us-pope-resignation-immunity-idUSBRE91E0ZI20130215

    February 18, 2013 at 10:36 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.