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March 4th, 2013
04:06 PM ET
Atheist group apologizes for misquoting Palin, but defends billboard's intentBy Dan Merica, CNN Washington (CNN) – An atheist group that misquoted former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin in a billboard in Texas is apologizing to the Republican and correcting the mistake. But it continues to defend the “intent and context” of the effort. CNN first reported on Sunday that American Atheists, a group known for its in-your-face tactics, was sponsoring a billboard calling out Palin for something she said while on Fox News. “We should create law based on the God of the Bible,” the billboard reads. The only problem: That isn’t what Palin said.
In an interview with Fox News’ Bill O'Reilly, Palin addressed the growth in American secularism by saying of America's founding fathers “we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the Ten Commandments,” not “should.” Dave Muscato, the group’s public relations director, said in a release that because American Atheists holds itself “to the highest standards of accuracy,” it will “move the quotation marks at our expense, so they do not include the word ‘should.’” Both Muscato and David Silverman, the group’s president, however, stand by the “intent and context” of the billboard. “While I admit that the word 'should' should technically not be inside the quote, the meaning was correct,” Silverman said in a statement to CNN. Silverman initially defended the misquotation, tweeting that “Sarah Palin was NOT Misquoted” and directing readers to a headline from a Huffington Post story. The story headline, however, was also incorrect and did not put quotes around should. Silverman was critiqued for that double down. Hemant Mehta, an influential atheist blogger at Patheos, wrote that a mistake like this “sheds doubt on the whole idea that atheists are the ones who are being honest with you.” Although Silverman said in an e-mail to CNN that he believes “Ms. Palin would stand by what we have quoted her as saying,” he said “all future quotes will be exactly as spoken.” A spokeswoman for Palin failed to respond to CNN’s request for a comment and has not contacted American Atheists about the mistake. Although Palin’s billboard is getting the most attention, it was one of seven ads going up around the Dallas and Austin, Texas, area. Also featured were: former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, the Rev. Robert Jeffress, pastor at the First Baptist Church in Dallas, and Benedict XVI, now the pope emeritus. Santorum is condemned for when he told an Iowa crowd last November that, “our civil laws have to comport with a higher law: God's law,” while Gingrich is criticized for a remark he made at a CNN debate on October 18, 2011, in Las Vegas. “How can I trust you with power if you don't pray,” Gingrich posited. Virginia Davis, spokeswoman for Santorum, thanked American Atheists for the publicity. “At a time when many are trying to remove God from the public square, the senator is appreciative of someone helping him very publicly express his strong belief that we are one nation under God,” Davis wrote in an e-mail to CNN. The billboards cost the group $25,000 and will be up for the rest of the month. American Atheists is used to controversy around their billboards. Last March, the group targeted Muslims and Jews with billboards that called God a "myth" in both Arabic and Hebrew and the same group posted a billboard around the holiday season in 2010 that read, “You KNOW it's a Myth. This Season, Celebrate REASON.” Both these billboard campaigns generated resistance and praise from the communities around them. Silverman, who has been criticized for this brand of atheism, has long defended the tactic, saying confrontation is meant to “grow the cause and benefit the country.”
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And I was part of the church for many years and studied theology in college, so I am quite familiar with scripture. And defamation, slander, and libel all require the deliberate use of misinformation. Again, opinion is none of the above so I'm not slandering anyone or anything. And just for the sake of argument, I agree that the New Testament does not encourage war. But the Old Testament is still scripture and part of Christianity.
Ok. Defamation. Slanderous defamation. Hawaii guest probably does not understand or believe in evil.
Now, if you understand scripture you know the old testament is history, and there are prophecies still unfulfilled in the major and minor prophets concerning day of the lord and messianic kingdom. None of these relate to Christianity because Christianity waits for the return of christianity. Somewhat about the old testament would lend support to Christianity envoking war, anything?
That was a very confusing response. Not certain what to make of it.
Now, if you understand scripture you know the old testament is history, and there are prophecies still unfulfilled in the major and minor prophets concerning day of the lord and messianic kingdom. None of these relate to Christianity because Christianity waits for the return of christ. So what about the old testament would lend support to Christianity envoking war, anything?
Not sure how messianic prophecies, or any unfulfilled prophecy does not relate to christianity. And, if you mean what I think you do by 'envoke', i would agree that there are not open-ended calls for war in the old testament, but calls for war nonetheless. And that is difficult to reconcile for many, given that it is the God of christianity that made those commands.
Very true and the false satanic system and one world government will see another war when Christ returns but until then, the old testament is the road map to the past and Israel , anfpd the new testament is the road map for the church. keep in mind that the Antichrist will be a system first, that will erupt into major wars world wide. People will think he is Christ and worship his religion. He will kill a third of the population. It is complicated, but Christians are to wait patiently and if need be defend their lives. I have to go, you are very nice. Bye.
Thanks for the compliment.
Bye Austin, if you get around to it maybe you could answer my questions on the previous page.
It is a stretch to say that the New Testament condones war against anyone, except in a spiritual sense:
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
However, people have certainly interpreted it as requiring things of them that we think are appalling. Statements attributed to Jesus and to Paul that inveigh against certain Jews of their generation were taken by many, Martin Luther included (Von den Juden und ihren Lügen), as encouragement, even a basis, for antisemitism that led directly to the Holocaust.
Ok if you have a minute
Austin
Tom, Tom, the other one, Fair enough, on same basis is it does not condone war, it would not condone it on Jews. Furthermore it does say that the Jews wii be persecuted, but by who? Any there is unfilfilled prophecy pertaining to the millineal kingdom and the day of the lord, and passages that show that God still has a plan for israel in Israel, . Understanding this theology and prophesy easily shows the gross error in pointing toward validation of Christian persecution of israel.
Can you share in Luther's view of Israel,
Austin, Luther's views on Jews evolved over time becoming more and more, well ... vile. Many scholars feel that this was because of an increasing conviction, and frustration, that Jews would not convert no matter what he or anyone else might teach them about their "errors". The whole body of On the Jews and Their Lies is significant if you want to get a feel for his views. Here is what I think this is a "clean" version. Versions exist that were edited to make them either more or less antisemitic depending on the motives of the editors.
http://jdstone.org/cr/pages/sss_mluther.html
It begins:
I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that those miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews and who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God’s word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.
It's worth mentioning that the Lutheran Synods I'm familiar with have publicly renounced these writings of Luther. Some in the 1970's, over four centuries after they were written.
Actually, I see you asked about Israel. Luther felt that the Israel of Jews had been destroyed by the Romans according to God's will.
I don't have any knowledge of this guy besides recognizing his name. In my opinion,along with the white puritans and native American massacre, It just seems like a wide array people in past history were overly militant cultures. Land seekers. I suppose that history can repeat itself, which is a concern.
I have probably been raised in a culture that is self consciouss of history. Nonetheless less, persecuting Jews seems do far from biblical that I feel like Luther's public hatred of Jews was a cultural fad, and one that is inspired by Satan. It just goes to show how degenerate the heart and mind of man can become. Luther to me now seems like a past time freaky white guy.
And again, I have experienced spiritual revelation. And can not pass the bible off as religion, because of the mental illness of past degenerate socially idolatrously religiously Christian political gains. What are the positive things that made Luther famous? N did he write any of the bible? Why is he famous for some interpretation? He has no right to be. Reforming a church? Big deal. The bible is yours, for a relationship between you and god, if you choose. I think that there was no intention for church organizations as we know it. The apostles and disciples had underground flocks. The church is not a denominational building.
Pharisitical Jews , their idolatry, are the same exact thing that Luther became. People are just so stupid. Denomination is mans reputation, not christs. The church is sick.
Luther also said that reason is the greatest enemy that faith has, a view still held by many to this day.
This has been going on for 2000 years:
1. Christians say they believe Jesus was sent by God, died for them, and rose again
2. Non believers get upset, want proof, deny God, and try to destroy their faith
1 should understand that 2 is darkness so you won't find light there, while 2 tries to extingish the light in 1.
The light is in the word of God.
I would say from 300 AD to about 1700 AD if you were an avowed atheist in Europe, your life would be in very danger from the other Chxtians.
This has been going on for 2000+ years:
1. Believers in every god have been lying to themselves and everyone else on the planet. Then, with no evidence of a soul, they've been dying just like every other human.
2. Rational people have been trying to help free the people in #1 from their various delusions.
People either believe God, or they don't.
According to my belief, HarryGP, you cannot believe God because you've never received anything from God that can correspond to a belief. You've never received anything from God at all.
If your religion were not such that it moves you to spread it around, and if it didn't encourage irrationality, ignorance, and intolerance, I wouldn't oppose it. As it is, it's a nasty algorithm that runs and spreads in human minds and carries a potentially harmful payload. How could I not care about that?
Hey Harry you have one too ... but yours is not that old !
Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought
Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm
I received the word of God as a child and later bought my own bible. I have loved reading it, but I understand some heretics can not figure it out and do not feel as I do. They slander God, and get upset that he is the creator. They ridicule when told the truth, that Jesus died for our sins and rose again the third day. 2000 years of this does not make me feel special given all those that never found out the truth before they passed on. It's what they wanted, no one could do anything for them.
Look up the definiton of deist, Harry. That there may have been a creator is an acceptable premise but the concept that there is a god that looks over your shoulder every minute of your your life just does not seem logical or reasonable too many. When christians demand that their myth of a god is the only true one and that what they believe in should be forced onto others and into the laws of the country, is when people are going to object, in short, butt out. Get over yourselves, thre are other value/belief systems just as valid as yours.
Harry
Better yet take a blood test map your genome you might learn about your family tree .
Peace
Harry, can you tell us what it's like to go through life as a nutcase? Do you believe it is chemical or actually just your will that you cannot tell fact from fiction? This must be why religious people want to get rid of violent video games – they can't tell fact from fiction so they assume no one else can either.
If the high priests and locals Jesus preached to couldn't recognize him, I'm not surprized that over 2000 years, many of you can't either.
But of course, YOU are so superior that you can.
You and people like you are the best advertisements for atheism and agnosticism.
If he existed, he was just another religious wackadoodle running around the desert claiming divinity. LOL, if you can imagine that dude you always see walking the streets of New York with his "end times" placard – that's your jesus plus 2000 years.
Hi I'm a number 2 Honestly I'm sorry walking on water, dead people waking up and talking, talking snakes , invisable men , just a little more then I can believe. I let it go some time after when I found out Barney and Friends weren't real. 🙂
That's why God does it this way, he doesn't want to attract those that reject him or what he wants. It was like that for Jesus. The high priests wanted power and money, to destroy their enemies. Jesus came to save all spiritually, if someone believes him. If you want power, money, proof, facts, and don't want to read what God expects you to read because it looks foolish, then you're a lot like them back then, and others over 2000 years.
I love it when zealots try to tell others why god does something.
@HarryGP wrote "That's why God does it this way, he doesn't want to attract those that reject him or what he wants"
This is this in my personal list of top 5 crazy things some Christians say. And I realize not all say this, but a heck of a lot do.
What they are faced with is the problem of why an all-powerful god would leave the world with nothing but an old book put together ages ago under dubious circ'umstances. Some people supposedly got to see these miracles, but the rest of us just get this iffy text and nothing else. What’s more, some people never even see this text at all.
So even the Christian admits this doesn’t seem fair. To try to explain away part of it (they still can’t get it all) they decide that really, at least in the case of those who get the book, it is fair. After all, only those who are ready to accept God are going to “get it”. If you have that special insight and love of god (before the evidence that is) you essentially have the magic key that makes the book make sense.
Tip: the key is gullibility and lack of critical thinking skills. Don’t believe me, check out the data:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120426143856.htm
What you folks are denying is the reality that with good evidence most people would believe. But you have to deny this, because otherwise your house of cards collapses.
The funny thing is that I don’t even object to religiosity. I actually believe that there could exist an appropriate and useful belief system that benefits society. Further I think it could draw on some aspects of Christianity. But the crackpot poor logic I keep seeing from Christians is really confirming doubts about any possible role for that system in a modern society. Sadly, it is becoming increasingly clear that Christianity can’t make the transition.
Good points, Saraswati. (It does weird me out that you're using the Chardonian method for quoting with "@", though – maybe from too many conversations with that entity? lol)
Make sure Chad Knows
It's way too simple, the Holy spirit is God seal of communication with you. You want to look to the past for proof, you seek a sign, just so that you don't have to have faith in God. You sabotage Gods holy spirit with your own pride. It's because you flesh is desperately wicked and deceitful, and deep down, you Hate the living wod of God. You truly hate God
You reject the provider of faith, the holy spirit.
A wicked and adulteress generation will seek a sign, but you won't get a sign because you reject the holy spirit, provider of faith, who is God. He knows your heart.
In a flash, when fact and reason fail, Harry falls back to the infamous "one must believe to believe" absurdity. Nice work, believer.
Opinions based on ignorance when confronted with the reality of Jesus 2000 years ago:
Mat 13:44-49
"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
@clarity, I looked around after people started talking about it and a lot of folks do that. When people use names like "No idea" and "Another Thing" or even "clarity" you need a way to distinguish that it's a name and not a general word. I don't want to think about it every time so I just stick in in all the time. I've actually been confused a few times by people who didn't do this with names that have real world meanings in the context.
@ER
Yeah, "one must believe to believe" is a good summary. Scary stuff.
HarryGP: "Opinions based on ignorance when confronted with the reality of Jesus 2000 years ago"
Opinions based on questioning the unauthored gospels when the only excuse early Christian apologists could come up with for them looking so much like earlier stories was "the devil did it – he set it all up in advance". lol.
LOL!!! Classic! Now Harry's argument has completely disintegrated into quoting the bible. Back into the warm safety of your comfy book of lies, Harry.
@HarryGP, Just so you know, I don't read long and boring looking bible quotes unless you preface them with a good reason why it will be relevent. Most non-Christians will skip this stuff. There's too much out there to read without bogging ourselves down with bits from a book we already read (most of us) and didn't find interesting the first time. Quoting this stuff to non-believers is a pretty big indicator of someone who doesn't know or understand his or her audience. If you want us to read it, tell us why it will be relevent.
I see what you mean Saraswati. I have had to use "[ ]" when quoting another poster (for more than a line of text). One time I remember Chad having a conversation with another Chad and they were both using "@" and "@" for both quoting and replying to the quote. As you can imagine it took some time to read through and "think" I understood who was arguing what. lol.
@clarity, lol, I don't remember that one but I've seen the Bobs debate which is pretty funny.
@austin.... Why do you confuse mythology with reality?........... truth requires evidence... you have ZERO.
Only for the new members of this blog:
Do not donate any money to American Atheists. Tis just another "non-profit" using a cause as a front for a tax-free investment company.
Said group's CEO, Dave Silverman pays himself $100,000+ /yr out of about $500,000 in donations. Said group has an investment portfolio of over a million dollars. And Silverman pays no taxes on the interest, dividends or capital gains on these investments. (guidestar.org)
Instead of sending a donation, simply forward this to your family and friends:
THERE IS NO GOD AND THERE NEVER WILL BE !!!!!!
Anyone else watching the Abby Lee Miller marathon? Is it true that it's scripted? Maybe some of the parts but not the dancing. I feel sad for Broadway Baby.
A&A's don't handle science very well.
Anyone who urges someone to post an e-mail address on an anonymous message board under the guise of altruistic intent is undeniably a poe.
Tom, Tom, I would say that if he were sincere, he'd post his own instead of asking you for yours...notice that this was not the case.
Poe.
I know, Akira, and that occurred to me as well.
He may not be a fraud, but if he isn't, he's a few sandwiches shy of a picnic.
He is certainly...tenacious, I'll give him that.
"Hemant Mehta, an influential atheist blogger at Patheos, wrote that a mistake like this “sheds doubt on the whole idea that atheists are the ones who are being honest with you.”"
This.
As an atheist, I loathe David Silverman and his tactics and this only once again proves that he is more about winning than being right. And even when proven wrong he hides behind the lie rather than immediately correct the situation. This man does far more harm than help to the atheists of the country.
You are right – they are just as bad as any religious extremist, but aren't capable of realizing that their tactics are ironically exactly the same. So much for being of superior intelligence and reason as they claim. True intellects don't go around attacking others for not sharing their beliefs.
LA,
"Sweeping generalizations are never correct and say far more about you than about them. If that has to be explained to you, you probably aren’t able to understand it anyway."
Recognize it? You should. This is you telling another person this very thing, and yet here you are, doing the same thing.
He's probably a plain ol' narcissist posing as an atheist. They are easy to lead. You can tell he's not of true Scottish blood.
@ Hawaii guest. " Christianity, from a scriptural basis, is no less dangerous that Islam. It just all depends on how fundamental the denomination is "
This is slander on the new testament doctrine on the life of Jesus, and the ministry of thenHoly spirit. We live in a period called the mystery of the church, as Christ prepares a house for the bride (church) as a time of patience and mercy for kingdom building. Spiritual kingdom, not earthly kingdom
If your statement was not slander, you would. Be able to site numerous new testament verses encouraging war, killing, and as.similation. What is your response?
Comparing the new testament to the Quran, is a desperate attempt to defile the salvation spiritual ministry of the Holy spirit.
What you have to remember is that many of the "new atheists" (aka Dawkinites) simply don't mind lying about any religion. Atheism has never been about facts and is based more on emotion. Studies show atheists tend to be angry at God and have poor relationships with their father.
There is no basis of morality in an atheistic world view. Right and wrong, as such simply can't exist logically in a world where there is no absolute standard by which to measure morality. Everything is simply a matter of opinion. An atheist can't rationally say that raping a baby is any more or less moral than coming to the aid of a person lying unconscious in the street.
Of course I'm not saying atheists can't be moral people, only that moral standards are logically incompatible with an atheistic world view.
Austin, As far as I know, christianity believes the OT which has plenty of the references that you question.
Robert, Please provide examples of atheist lies about religion.
And I disagree. But it's useless to argue with you, because no matter what is said, it will be ignored, denied, or deflected. You are very good at that.
Slander doesn't mean what you think it means, Austin. And asking questions about Christianity and disagreeing with it isn't either. You're using it in such a manner that makes you look silly. What part of "don't believe" don't you get??
Some of us are committed to the well-being of society and of our neighbors because that is simply what we want as ordinary social human beings, and because we believe we can help set up the kind of world we would like to live in. Moral standards derive from what we are and what we want, not from God.
If this "Holy Spirit" has sent Austin as a representative, he/she/it is one silly ghost.
Robert, where is your evidence that atheism has never been about facts (nice superlative absolute btw...not usually a good idea to use those) and these supposed studies that atheists are angry at god (which seems far-fetched, considering that atheists consider god to be a figment of others imagination) or have poor relationships with their fathers? And what exactly makes religious morality any less arbitrary than atheistic morality? Morality is based on social constructs, cooperation, and cause and effect...much the same way that many religious codes of conduct were devised. Saying that atheism is logically incompatible with morality is just, well, illogical.
@In Santa we trust
Austin, As far as I know, christianity believes the OT which has plenty of the references
@Slander doesn't mean what you think it means, Austin. And asking questions about Christianity and disagreeing with it isn't either. You're using it in such a manner that makes you look silly. What part of "don't believe" don't you get??
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
And I disagree. But it's useless to argue with you, because no matter what is said, it will be ignored, denied, or deflected. You are very good at that.
None of these are what I asked for, and you all side stepped themqu
@In Santa we trust
Austin, As far as I know, christianity believes the OT which has plenty of the references
@Slander doesn't mean what you think it means, Austin. And asking questions about Christianity and disagreeing with it isn't either. You're using it in such a manner that makes you look silly. What part of "don't believe" don't you get??
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
And I disagree. But it's useless to argue with you, because no matter what is said, it will be ignored, denied, or deflected. You are very good at that.
None of these are what I asked for, and you all side stepped the question. You referred to the old testament law which is fulfilled in Christ, as every one knows is the Jewish old testament prophecy. The new testament is the Christian portion.
Then someone said i am misusing the word slander
slander n. oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed.
There were six people involved in this comment by Hawaii guest and backing him up refuting my claim of slander against the Christian doctrine.
Austin
@ Hawaii guest. " Christianity, from a scriptural basis, is no less dangerous that Islam. It just all depends on how fundamental the denomination is "
This is slander on the new testament doctrine on the life of Jesus, and the ministry of thenHoly spirit. We live in a period called the mystery of the church, as Christ prepares a house for the bride (church) as a time of patience and mercy for kingdom building. Spiritual kingdom, not earthly kingdom
If your statement was not slander, you would. Be able to site numerous new testament verses encouraging war, killing, and as.similation. What is your response?
Comparing the new testament to the Quran, is a desperate attempt to defile the salvation spiritual ministry of the holy spirit.
Austin, you still have not addressed why you won't include the old testament as scripture, and part of the canon of Christianity, or why you misused the term 'slander'. It appears the responses to your post actually addressed those facts quite directly, contrary to your supposition. And without addressing these rather glaring errors, constructive debate is rendered quite impossible.
Stating an opinion is not slander. Again, you don't appear to really know what the term means, as an opinion cannot be classified as an 'untruth'. Quoting verses that don't exist, now that would be slander. In print, it would actually be libel, so you are kind of using the term inaccurately in more than one way.
For one there is nothing to look bak to with the old testament other than history. Old testament wars were about Israel.. The old testament wars were legitimized by prophets concerning Israel. The it was about atonement and sacrifice, christnwas the final sacrifice, so Israel has been a vehicle for the atoning messiah. Now we look to him...we followmchrist, not Israel.
So since you make the same claim, now can you tell me where there is a new testament allowance to make war, or can you admit that there is not?
Back up the scripture you refer to. Cite it.
You don't even understand the relationship of the old testament to the new testament. Speaking of Christianity in a defamation of character just because you are ignorant does not. Ake you innocent. Still slander or if you need to be technical libel would work too, and slander is just fine as well. The issue is the calling for war in christian scripture.
I make the same claim as what? Point out where I made any statement at all about war. It seems like you're just making stuff up. I was talking about your rather convenient discarding of the Old Testament and misuse of vocabulary.
Ok . This is about war and
Ok . This is about the statement that Christianity invokes war. I'll check back tomorrow .
Well either the old testament is history or it isn't. For example you cannot claim that one part of the old testament is history while another part of it lives on. Do you abide by all of leviticus or just the parts that don't reflect your life?
Here's something that I have been getting the cold shoulder on ever since I asked it:
I was told that the new testament was a fulfillment of a prophecy from the old testament. I'm looking for this prophecy from the old testament that says a new god will spring up and fulfill the debts that mankind has yet to fulfill.
Robert doesn't have or need evidence. His goal is not conversation or discover of truth. As a Poe, his goal is either entertainment or intentional divisiveness; the point is that we can't tell. We cannot tell whether he is insane with religion or has no opinion and just stirring the pot for fun.
Aside from that he's basically just miming William Lane Craig, who has had his testicles repeatedly crushed in the vice of rationality during debates because of his fallacious arguments about "objective moral values". I've posted his debates here recently, with Sam Harris and Shelly Kagan. Make no mistake, Craig is a smart solipsist, so you will find debates where he effectively "wins" against others because he buries them in circular and meaningless lingo while his opponents get caught up in trying to debate "fact" – a world Craig doesn't live in.
And I was part of the church for many years and studied theology in college, so I am quite familiar with scripture. And defamation, slander, and libel all require the deliberate use of misinformation. Again, opinion is none of the above so I'm not slandering anyone or anything. And just for the sake of argument, I agree that the New Testament does not encourage war. But the Old Testament is still scripture and part of Christianity and cannot be so easily dismissed when it is part of every single Christian bible. But logical fallacies concern me more than any theological dispute. And when you make statements that contain confusing ommissions or glaring errors and then completely ignore attempts to clear that up, don't be suprised if debate grinds to a halt. If clear and constructive communication cannot be established, then what we are attempting to communicate about won't matter.
None of Leviticus matters. The old law has been abolished with living by faith,we are no longer under the old testament law. No man could fulfill the law, we now live by faith and grace, not by the works of the law. A clear doctrine in Paul. Jesus Christ fulfilled the law, and we have the new covenant the new testament. Hence the word old, it is history. There unfulfilled prophecy in old testament concerning the day of the lord, and messianic kingdom, however the return of messiah will be no secret. The we testament is our structure for way of life. The old testament is about the nation state of Israel. It is ancient history. And some prophecy about the messiah, not the church.
At breath deep
I was told that the new testament was a fulfillment of a prophecy from the old testament. I'm looking for this prophecy from the old testament that says a new god will spring up and fulfill the debts that mankind has yet to fulfill.
This part about new God if it is in the old testament would be a reference to Jesus, and nothing else. Google the whole statement and see what pops up. A new
God, is similar or "the God" which is not translated as another God. the godhead is 3 in one, the son being fully God., and Jesusnin John 1:1-14 is the creator if the universe. Genesis....let us make man in our image...
Plural. Us our, Christ was in the beginning.
@ Leonid, I think your statement confusion omission is unfounded in that a well versed Christian understands the relationship to the old testament to the new testament. These fundamental basic principals would have been assumed to be obvious before younexplained that you don't understand why old testament war formisrael is simply a part of history. Israel remains a Jewish nation, they don't tell Christians to Go to war. And in effect, Christianity is the spiritual Jews , the seed of Abraham, but we worship the savior, and the spiritual battle is won already for a saved individual.we wait for the savior and there is no war called for .
Seems to me that if the entire bible is the word of God, you just said some of what he said doesn't matter. And it seems like things like the Ten Commandments are still pretty popular for being ancient history. And even Jesus himself quotes from multiple Old Testament books, which seems like an odd thing to do if his existence made them irrelavent. In any case, the New is built upon the Old, and the same God who is part of the trinity is supposed to have inspired both, yet he and his followers initially did kill alot of people for a religion that supposedly doesn't encourage war. Sort of seems like a "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" thing.
I understand the Jesus promoted peace, but its difficult to overlook the events of the Old Testament.
It comes down to Israel being gods vehicle for atonement and the messiah. God interviened with the world through Israel, and now that the messiah came and they rejected him, they are history . Yet he has a few unfulfilled prophecies, and yes the ten commands are important, but the disciples asked what is the most important commandment
I think Christians "understand" the relationship of the Old and New and the scripture itself the best they can considering it is paradoxical. But I think the telling aspect is that ONLY believers understand it.
Which bespeaks more of faith and acceptance, than an actual encompassing understanding.
Ok well the topic to keep simple is Christian war. If you read wh at Christ said he said turn the cheek, the ,out important commandment is love and honor God and neighbor, and he said his kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. He was not a military ruler..
What in the old testament would point to a Christian war? Christians were called to be hated and suffer, not conquer. What did the disciples do? Christ said give to Caesar what is ceasers. We are told to obey governent. We know that Satan will dominate the world, and that jews will be persecuted.
I guess what I'm asking for Austin is where in the old testament can we can find the passage that predicts that a new version of god will come down to reign as the new version of god?
There is no new version, and without a reference i suppose that this is not relevant to think of God as a new version. The person of God is unchanging, the person of Jesus is unchanging, the Holy spirit is unchanging. We can be sure he is faithful to complete and fulfill he promises.
@ breathe
God Will Do a New Thing
With God, there is always something new! He is never finished with us! That’s one of the reasons serving Him is so exciting. God said: “Do not remember the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold I will do a new thing, now it shall spring forth; shall you not know it? I will even make a road in the wilderness and rivers in the desert” (Isaiah 43:18-19).
This does not mean that God is indifferent to what we have done in the past. We may have achieved much good in former days! It is just that God has so much He wants to accomplish through our lives that He is always eager to move us to the next level in our divine service.
I find it interesting that after all that has been discussed, including the Old Testament being only ancient history, that you would choose to quote Isaiah as a testament of your faith as a Christian.
Since you yourself said there is no reason to look back to the Old testament and have implied that Christianity is based solely on the New Testament.
Wellmyounhave to grasp the entire bible, knowing then places in time where a prophecy falls. The inspired word of God is relevant for spiritual enrichment, but the old testament does not ordain church war. The last war ordaining prophet was Malachi. And he represented Israel. We know the time setting of unfulfilled prophecy from the old testament, and it is after Christ returns. Theism period of time, the seventieth week of Daniel, predicts worldly war, and a satanic procession which god allows to culminate
Then mysterynfnthenchurch , or seventieth week of daniel, the time from when Christ assented , until he returns, does not call for any physical kingdom conquest or war. It calls for peace, Christians co exhisting among the nations . That is it. We carry the gospel in peace and submission to government.
So if god said "do not remember the former things", and jesus said "I am not here to abolish the old, but to fulfill it", then one of them was clearly not speaking the truth, which one do you think it was?
Correct. You do not need to live according to the old testament. You can read and focus on the new testament, because you should not try to be Jewish, you should try to be Christian. Christ fulfilled what Judaism foreshadowed. We respect the old testament as an enriching history it is evidence and the basis of the prophetic word. And it is the inspired word of God. You should indeed learn it as well. The adherence to the old testament laws is not required any more.
I don't have time for another subject ' this is about ordaining war in the new testament, which is a defamation fallacy . Hitler is I hell and so are the illuminati inspired crusaders probably.
It is a stretch to say that the New Testament condones war against anyone, except in a spiritual sense:
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
However, people have certainly interpreted it as requiring things of them that we think are appalling. Statements attributed to Jesus and to Paul that inveigh against certain Jews of their generation were taken by many, Martin Luther included (Von den Juden und ihren Lügen), as encouragement, even a basis, for antisemitism that led directly to the Holocaust.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
@daniel 9:24
Future of israel in the final end of age,
Reference to restraining Israel's sin in a long treed of apostasy
Make an end of sins, to judge it with finality,
Make reconciliation for iniquity, To atone for sins
This brings righteousness , we need no more revelation in this matter, israel will be blessed and is secure place to set up worship, as center of the millineal kingdom.
@austin.... do you know what the term "don't take the brown acid" means?.... I don't think so because it sounds like you took a bunch!.
Fvcktard, I wasn't responding to you but to Robert.
We got the quote wrong, but it's still right.
Yep, that's logical thinking for ya.
More watching, less typing.
you bless everyone who lives right and obeys your Law. You bless all of those who follow your commands from deep in their hearts and who never do wrong or turn from you. You have ordered us always to obey your teachings; I don’t ever want to stray from your laws. Thinking about your commands will keep me from doing some foolish thing. I will do right and praise you by learning to respect your perfect laws. I will obey all of them! Don’t turn your back on me. Young people can live a clean life by obeying your word. I worship you with all my heart. Don’t let me walk away from your commands. I treasure your word above all else; it keeps me from sinning against you. I praise you, Lord! Teach me your laws. With my own mouth, I tell others the laws that you have spoken. Obeying your instructions brings as much happiness as being rich. I will study your teachings and follow your footsteps. I will take pleasure in your laws and remember your words. Treat me with kindness, Lord, so that I may live and do what you say. Open my mind and let me discover the wonders of your Law. I live here as a stranger. Don’t keep me from knowing your commands. What I want most of all and at all times is to honor your laws. You punish those boastful, worthless nobodies who turn from your commands. Don’t let them sneer and insult me for following you. I keep thinking about your teachings, Lord, even if rulers plot against me. Your laws are my greatest joy! I follow their advice. I am at the point of death. Let your teachings breathe new life into me. When I told you my troubles, you answered my prayers. Now teach me your laws. Help me to understand your teachings, and I will think about your marvelous deeds. I am overcome with sorrow. Encourage me, as you have promised to do. Keep me from being deceitful, and be kind enough to teach me your Law. I am determined to be faithful and to respect your laws. I follow your rules, Lord. Don’t let me be ashamed. I am eager to learn all that you want me to do; help me to understand more and more. Point out your rules to me, and I won’t disobey even one of them. Help me to understand your Law; I promise to obey it with all my heart. Direct me by your commands! I love to do what you say. Make me want to obey you, rather than to be rich. Take away my foolish desires, and let me find life by walking with you. I am your servant! Do for me what you promised to those who worship you. Your wonderful teachings protect me from the insults that I hate so much. I long for your teachings. Be true to yourself and let me live. Show me your love and save me, Lord, as you have promised. Then I will have an answer for everyone who insults me for trusting your word. I rely on your laws! Don’t take away my chance to speak your truth. I will keep obeying your Law forever and ever. I have gained perfect freedom by following your teachings, and I trust them so much that I tell them to kings. I love your commands! They bring me happiness. I love and respect them and will keep them in mind. Don’t forget your promise to me, your servant. I depend on it. When I am hurting, I find comfort in your promise that leads to life. Conceited people sneer at me, but I obey your Law. I find true comfort, Lord, because your laws have stood the test of time. I get furious when evil people turn against your Law. No matter where I am, your teachings fill me with songs. Even in the night I think about you, Lord, and I obey your Law. You have blessed me because I have always followed your teachings. You, Lord, are my choice, and I will obey you. With all my heart I beg you to be kind to me, just as you have promised. I pay careful attention as you lead me, and I follow closely. As soon as you command, I do what you say. Evil people may set a trap, but I obey your Law. Your laws are so fair that I wake up and praise you in the middle of the night. I choose as my friends everyone who worships you and follows your teachings. Our Lord, your love is seen all over the world. Teach me your laws. I am your servant, Lord, and you have kept your promise to treat me with kindness. Give me wisdom and good sense. I trust your commands. Once you corrected me for not obeying you, but now I obey. You are kindhearted, and you do good things, so teach me your laws. My reputation is being ruined by conceited liars, but with all my heart I follow your teachings. Those liars have no sense, but I find happiness in your Law. When you corrected me, it did me good because it taught me to study your laws. I would rather obey you than to have a thousand pieces of silver and gold. You created me and put me together. Make me wise enough to learn what you have commanded. Your worshipers will see me, and they will be glad that I trust your word. Your decisions are correct, and you were right to punish me. I serve you, Lord. Comfort me with your love, just as you have promised. I love to obey your Law! Have mercy and let me live. Put down those proud people who hurt me with their lies, because I have chosen to study your teachings. Let your worshipers come to me, so they will learn to obey your rules. Let me truly respect your laws, so I won’t be ashamed. I long for you to rescue me! Your word is my only hope. I am worn out from waiting for you to keep your word. When will you have mercy? My life is wasting away like a dried-up wineskin, but I have not forgotten your teachings. I am your servant! How long must I suffer? When will you punish those troublemakers? Those proud people reject your teachings, and they dig pits for me to fall in. Your laws can be trusted! Protect me from cruel liars. They have almost killed me, but I have been faithful to your teachings. Show that you love me and let me live, so that I may obey all of your commands. Our Lord, you are eternal! Your word will last as long as the heavens. You remain faithful in every generation, and the earth you created will keep standing firm. All things are your servants, and the laws you made are still in effect today. If I had not found happiness in obeying your Law, I would have died in misery. I won’t ever forget your teachings, because you give me new life by following them. I belong to you, and I have respected your laws, so keep me safe. Brutal enemies are waiting to ambush and destroy me, but I obey your rules. Nothing is completely perfect, except your teachings. I deeply love your Law! I think about it all day. Your laws never leave my mind, and they make me much wiser than my enemies. Thinking about your teachings gives me better understanding than my teachers, and obeying your laws makes me wiser than those who have lived a long time. I obey your word instead of following a way that leads to trouble. You have been my teacher, and I won’t reject your instructions. Your teachings are sweeter than honey. They give me understanding and make me hate all lies. Your word is a lamp that gives light wherever I walk. Your laws are fair, and I have given my word to respect them all. I am in terrible pain! Save me, Lord, as you said you would. Accept my offerings of praise and teach me your laws. I never forget your teachings, although my life is always in danger. Some merciless people are trying to trap me, but I never turn my back on your teachings. They will always be my most prized possession and my source of joy. I have made up my mind to obey your laws forever, no matter what. I hate anyone whose loyalty is divided, but I love your Law. You are my place of safety and my shield. Your word is my only hope. All of you worthless people, get away from me! I am determined to obey the commands of my God. Be true to your word, Lord. Keep me alive and strong; don’t let me be ashamed because of my hope. Keep me safe and secure, so that I will always respect your laws. You reject all deceitful liars because they refuse your teachings. As far as you are concerned, all evil people are garbage, and so I follow your rules. I tremble all over when I think of you and the way you judge. I did what was fair and right! Don’t hand me over to those who want to mistreat me. Take good care of me, your servant, and don’t let me be harmed by those conceited people. My eyes are weary from waiting to see you keep your promise to come and save me. Show your love for me, your servant, and teach me your laws. I serve you, so let me understand your teachings. Do something, Lord! They have broken your Law. Your laws mean more to me than the finest gold. I follow all of your commands, but I hate anyone who leads me astray. Your teachings are wonderful, and I respect them all. Understanding your word brings light to the minds of ordinary people. I honestly want to know everything you teach. Think about me and be kind, just as you are to everyone who loves your name. Keep your promise and don’t let me stumble or let sin control my life. Protect me from abuse, so I can obey your laws. Smile on me, your servant, and teach me your laws. When anyone disobeys you, my eyes overflow with tears. Our Lord, you always do right, and your decisions are fair. All of your teachings are true and trustworthy. It upsets me greatly when my enemies neglect your teachings. Your word to me, your servant, is like pure gold; I treasure what you say. Everyone calls me a nobody, but I remember your laws. You will always do right, and your teachings are true. I am in deep distress, but I love your teachings. Your rules are always fair. Help me to understand them and live. I pray to you, Lord! Please answer me. I promise to obey your laws. I beg you to save me, so I can follow your rules. Even before sunrise, I pray for your help, and I put my hope in what you have said. I lie awake at night, thinking of your promises. Show that you love me, Lord, and answer my prayer. Please do the right thing and save my life. People who disobey your Law have made evil plans and want to hurt me, but you are with me, and all of your commands can be trusted. From studying your laws, I found out long ago that you made them to last forever. I have not forgotten your Law! Look at the trouble I am in, and rescue me. Be my defender and protector! Keep your promise and save my life. Evil people won’t obey you, and so they have no hope of being saved. You are merciful, Lord! Please do the right thing and save my life. I have a lot of brutal enemies, but still I never turn from your laws. All of those unfaithful people who refuse to obey you are disgusting to me. Remember how I love your laws, and show your love for me by keeping me safe. All you say can be trusted; your teachings are true and will last forever. Rulers are cruel to me for no reason. But with all my heart I respect your words, because they bring happiness like treasures taken in war. I can’t stand liars, but I love your Law. I praise you seven times a day because your laws are fair. You give peace of mind to all who love your Law. Nothing can make them fall. You are my only hope for being saved, Lord, and I do all you command. I love and obey your laws with all my heart. You know everything I do. You know I respect every law you have given. Please, Lord, hear my prayer and give me the understanding that comes from your word. Listen to my concerns and keep me safe, just as you have promised. If you will teach me your laws, I will praise you and sing about your promise, because all of your teachings are what they ought to be. Be ready to protect me because I have chosen to obey your laws. I am waiting for you to save me, Lord. Your Law makes me happy. Keep me alive, so I can praise you, and let me find help in your teachings. I am your servant, but I have wandered away like a lost sheep. Please come after me, because I have not forgotten your teachings.
Well, isn't that special?
There is none as ardent as the fervent believer.
None as long-winded, either.
Why do you have to plead that way? Are you being ignored by your God. Have you been abandoned?
Superstition!
Sounds like a sniveling little wimp. I started to read it, but almost lost my lunch.
I recognize this. These are psalms, new translation, without verse numbers . That is fun.
Sorry for spoiling the priceless comments !!! Jahahahahahahaa. Hilarious. That is one of the funniest things in a while.
I admire her independent streak. She does not march in lock-step with the GOP. So even though I am a Democrat, she has earned my admiration for her ability to think freely. I also admire how she prays.
Hey guy you need to lighten up. You seem a little creepy.
A beautiful prayer.
Psalm 119, the longest chapter in the Bible, eight verses begin with each letter in the Hebrew alphabet, 8 times 22 equals 176 verses. The book of Psalms is in the center of God’s Word and Psalm 119 is literally in the very center of the Word of God. All very interesting coincidences, if you believe in such things. I wish I understood Hebrew, although I enjoy it very much in the KJV. It praises the word of God.
No I did not know that . Awesome!
Re: Our Lord
Message undeliverable. Enti'ty not located.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with The Flying Spaghetti Monster, and the Word was The Flying Spaghetti Monster. "
– Gospel of FSM, John 1:1
I'm sorry, "Our Lord,", but all that is unfounded.
I'm sorry Barney and Friends they no not what they do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=o1CPqR5fUT8
Like a good chistian he cannot get to the point sooner.
Like a good CHRISTIAN, he couldn't get to the point sooner.
This is making fun of an atheist? HAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!! now that is funny.
THIS SPACE RESERVED FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT:
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Additional space available upon valid request.
* wrong spot, but meant for Austin...
It didn't fit
Hours now, and that wascally Holy Ghost has still not filled in those blanks...
Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind.
In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking.
It is merely that when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought.
But, if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true?
It's like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London.
But if I can't trust my own thinking, of course I can't trust the arguments leading to Atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an Atheist, or anything else.
Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought: so I can never use thought to disbelieve in God.
Just because you can't be absolutely sure of an idea's validity is no reason to withhold judgement. It's called belief. I believe that there are no good arguments for god's existence and that if god does exist he is unconcerned with human affairs as depicted by all the main religious texts. I believe that as long as god is invisible and undetectable we should treat him that way. I believe that my reasoning is quite good and my judgments valid.
"Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought." Not everyone has that problem.
"It's like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London."
Even upsetting an infinite number of jugs of milk you won't likely get you a map of London. The milk is bound by a combination of gravity, surface tension and other physical properties – which you omit in your reductio ad absurdum.
An infinite number of monkeys with typewriters however, will produce Hamlet.
An infinite number of Austins with typewriters, though, will still give you nothing but worthless, crazy drivel.
@TTTPS,
sadly I think that is true.
“A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.” – Winston Churchill
I don't believe in atheists. I think people either love God or they hate God. They are mad that God won't do what they want God to do – and start to act like a spoiled brat. Look at the behavior of the posters on this site. A majority of the atheists are insulting and rude. They are jerks. They don't have any evidence God doesn't exist – they just are upset they aren't God. You have to be blind and closed-minded to not feel the presence of the Spirit of the Universe.
Native American Prayer (do you wan to End their Religion, too?)
Oh, Great Spirit
Whose voice I hear in the winds,
And whose breath gives life to all the world,
hear me, I am small and weak,
I need your strength and wisdom.
Let me walk in beauty and make my eyes ever behold
the red and purple sunset.
Make my hands respect the things you have
made and my ears sharp to hear your voice.
Make me wise so that I may understand the things
you have taught my people.
Let me learn the lessons you have
hidden in every leaf and rock.
I seek strength, not to be greater than my brother,
but to fight my greatest enemy – myself.
Make me always ready to come to you
with clean hands and straight eyes.
So when life fades, as the fading sunset,
my Spirit may come to you without shame.
No, dear. I'm not angry at a god I for which I see no evidence. Religious beliefs just don't make any sense to me any more. I used to go to church, sing in the choir, went to catechism, was baptized and confirmed. None of it has ever made any sense. I am irritated mightily by people who insist they KNOW that god exists, that THEIR beliefs are the ONLY true ones, and that everyone else is damned.
I'm sure this won't change your mind. After all, you are a believer.
@tomtom, Really you sang in the choir?
Mr. Lewis's mind was the result of hundreds of millions of years of developments in computational ability that arose in a certain type of organism under selection because it enabled ever more effective interaction with the natural world. The development of computational ability was adaptive: it conformed to logic, albeit imperfectly, because logic works. It pushed the limits of perception, memory, and the ability to model reality effectively so that predictions on those models became increasingly useful. Eventually all the pieces were in place, and Mr. Lewis inherited a creative mind and was able to draw his conclusion, wrong though it was.
We evolved thinking as a survival tactic, instead of sharp claws, long fangs, fast running or wings. Just like it is stupid to ask if claws or wings are true, it is stupid to ask if thinking is true. True compared to what, gruesome fairy tales in a 2000 year old book from a bunch of sheep herders? They believed in god and thought the world was flat, the earth was the center of the universe and eating lobster was an abomination.
I still sing in a choir. So?
Please explain why a small army of christians slaughtered 8500 unarmed boys and men in Srebrenica in 1995?
Perhaps because they were Muslims. You have to understand how the Christian mind operates.
Akira, Church choir?
@ the war where 8500 died in 1995
Was the reason that at bible study they came up with this idea, or was their a regional conflict like in Sudan?
No, Austin, not a chruch choir. A church isn't necessary to belong to belong to a choir.
End religion now!
End Religion
Seriously, you do not see the truth in C.S. Lewis post?
fred, Lewis seemed OK up until he said, "how can I trust my own thinking to be true." We have a system for knowing the truth of our reality. It is called science.
God gave him the ability to think ... and the ability to show the difference between "ability" and "application".
Again, the God of Israel is fiction. All is Created and Given by the LOVING Spaghedeity. Look at the historicity of the empty colander, proof that He was boiled for your sins, probably prefers the colour red, and is Risen to His Heavenly Father's Kingdom.
What is particularly profound proof that FSM is greater than your fictional God is that yours is only triune in nature. FSM is made of infinite dimensions. he is Son, Father, Holy Noodle and so much more! He is not limited like your god. FSM can also be Earth, Wind and Fire (the elements AND the band!)' He is Penne and Fusilli; He is every atom and spinning electron; he is vapor, water, ice and marmalade. ALL HAIL OUR LORD FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!!!
Except you are not hoping that the spilled milk will reveal a map of london, you are expecting it to on an eventuality.
Here are a few things that a god would logically get rid of as a progression of our species:
Wisdom teeth
Tailbones
Appendixes
And yet things things continually bother us with their constant annoyances that have no positive impact on our lives. Does god enjoy our suffering?
questions:
belief in god is called "faith" because it's belief without any evidence, without any objective proof, right? that indicates that faith is, by its very nature, irrational, right? so how can one ever justify one's faith? one cannot contend that they have faith because ... x, y, z, right? so, why have faith? one cannot give reasons for believing something exists if one has no reasons to believe such a thing exists, right? am i missing something?
Faith is a tool. For instance, as an impetus to change. You have to believe you can change before taking the necessary action. I have faith that certain questions are important, for instance. For example, I have faith that we are asking the right question when we investigate the rules of the sub atomic world.
Totally wrong. Faith is given from God,, and he reveals himself personally, in that are only understood by you.
The seal of the holy spirit is a sanctifying voice that convicts you of sin. Once you receive the Holy spirit, he convicts you, salvation from sin, this is another way you will notice a substance reality, that you begin a massive struggle with sin.
Third, the holy spirit bears the truth of gods word on your heart, he reveals truth to you I. Sovereign ways, he communicates through his creation.
Synchronicity of the Holy spirit, ministry of angels, guardian angels, Things start getting your attention.
Visions, rare.
Basically when you receive thenHoly spirit, you gain a gaurdian angel, and they help your spiritual mind.
You don't rely on your own knowledge as the faith, the faith is a daily gift from God. You get this faith, and fall into sin, thenyunhave doubts, but you are saved and sealed, and so the Holy Spirit revives you in faithful love.
The Holy spirit, the advocate,the helper, He will testify of himself within you. The holy spirit will be your faith. Not you.
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.john15:26-27
yawn
Austin,
Excellent descriptions of the Holy Spirit, keep up the good work.
cares
When most people talk about faith (other than faith in God), they really don't mean faith, so much as a statistical guess based on their experiences and knowledge. There generally is a good reason for that faith. I.e. I have faith that if I fall asleep while you are driving, that you will not kill us both before reaching our destination. That is based on the fact that normally we reach our destination and you drive well based on your limited number of accidents.
When people talk about faith in God, that is not based on statistical reasoning based on personal experience and knowledge, but indoctrination, and fear based on others lack of experience and knowledge normally starting with their parents and at a young age.
There goes austin lying about "truth" again.............. why do you call it "truth" when it's nothing more than your opinion?
My compmjust erased a long response sorry for the delay
You can enjoy unlimited free time and post to your heart's content on the belief blog 😉
The spending cuts don't affect them, they will continue to receive the unemployment benefits. What is your problem?
Donate your money to David Silverman – watch him get rich and let him buy more billboards with typos.
Lol. What absolute rot. When in doubt, cast aspersions. Yay, Christianity! Bend over today to receive your Christ on a stick!
The number of atheists to the number of theists posting regularly for months on end is disproportionately higher.
It is one thing to post something positive and another thing to remain negative for such prolonged periods of time.Wonder what it does to the psyche of these non-believers? No wonder they are so belligerent.
Yo Derek
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Sam, Thanks for proving my point.
You tool, it was an ironic finger. Get over yourself. Go soak your head.
You're awesome sam!
Today's positive message: May you be touched the Flying Spaghetti Monster's Noodly Appendage. He is the One True path to Heaven. With this positive message please note the implied negative message that any filthy heathesn who don't worship FSM will rot in hell for eternity because He loves you. RAmen.
It's a safety pressure valve. Somebody's savin' em for something. Must be the gubmint's plan.
I can see Russia from my house
You must be on the coast of Alaska.
My nose makes it's own bubble gum!
@ Bram
George Lemaitre was indeed a Catholic priest. Here's a little more about him.
"It was Lemaître's firm belief that scientific endeavour should stand isolated from the religious realm. With specific regard to his Big Bang theory, he commented: 'As far as I can see, such a theory remains entirely outside any metaphysical or religious question.' Lemaître had always been careful to keep his parallel careers in cosmology and theology on separate tracks, in the belief that one led him to a clearer comprehension of the material world, while the other led to a greater understanding of the spiritual realm... ...Not surprisingly, he was frustrated and annoyed by the Pope's deliberate mixing of theology and cosmology. One student who saw Lemaître upon his return from hearing the Pope's address to the Academy recalled him 'storming into class...his usual jocularity entirely missing'." Simon Singh (2010). Big Bang. HarperCollins UK. p. 362.
Oops, misfire!
Ok...let me ask this...what harm does Christianity do? I'm talking about the genuine Christianity...not the crusades or the Vatican...not abuse at the hands of man with attempted religious justification. I'm talking about the men and women in church on the weekend doing their part to make the world better by reaching out to the needy and helping their communities. Yes, I am aware that non-religious people do this to. What does it matter if people feel more connected through a congregation than they do outside of one? If religion is proved false when I die, so be it. If it gives me comfort today, what is the harm in my belief?
There isn't any as far as I'm concern. I applaud you for your honesty in calling what you have "belief." I admire those who live their faith by helping others and treating them kindly.
The folks I loathe are those who use religion to discriminate against others, to judge others, to hate others, and to restrict the legal rights of others. The ones I abhor are those who insist their brand of belief is "fact" and "truth" and all others are false.
I don't have any problem with christianity, as long as it is kept out of the law and off my body.
As do I Tom...it is those people that tend to draw the headlines and cast Christianity in a negative light.
...of course I must say that I do believe my beliefs are factual. With that though, I fully understand that I do not have the right to tell someone else what they must believe or how they must live. If someone is a true follower of Christ, it should be with a tolerance and love for everyone that guides us...not damnation for everything that doesn't look like what I think life should look like.
I'll give you 21 reasons why xianity is harmful to humanity and why it will eventually abandoned.
1 xianity is based on fear
2 xianity preys on the innocent
3 xianity is based on dishonesty
4 xianity is extremely egocentric
5 xianity breeds arrogance, a chosen-people mentality
6 xianity breeds authoritarianism
7 xianity is cruel
8 xianity is anti-intellectual, anti-scientific
9 xianity has a morbid, unhealthy preoccupation with sex
10 xianity produces sexual misery
11 xianity has an exceedingly narrow, legalistic view of morality
12 xianity encourages acceptance of real evils while focusing on imaginary evils
13 xianity depreciates the natural world
14 xianity models hierarchical, authoritarian organization
15 xianity sanctions slavery
16 xianity is misogynistic
17 xianity is homophobic
18 no verifiable credible evidence of the existence of jebus
19 all accounts of jebus are hearsay
20 the bible is riddled with contradictions
21 xianity borrowed its central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
@Jeff
Asking, what harm christianity does, then excluding bad things that happened that can have a demonstrable causal link with their religion is dishonest.
I agree with you Jeff . Well said. On these poasts people refer to Jesus as a sky fairy and abraham and david as borrowed myths.
Here we go, I was just explaining what would happen and wham. There it was.
@Austin
Nice straw man. People actually refer to your god as a "sky fairy", and people question the historicity of Jesus as presented in the bible. Some question the existence of Jesus as a whole, but not all.
@the AnViL...I think you bring up points that could certainly be discussed, but not in a forum such as this. In the same way you ask for proof of Jesus, I could ask for proof of Socrates. I do believe that both men existed, but both would be hard for me to prove to you without using the writings from those in their time.
@hawaiiguest...but that is the difference...you are referring to man made things done in the name of faith. There are countless things that man does in the name of everything under the sun. Oakland Raider fans have shot people outside of the stadium...surely all Raider fans are not murderers...though they are misguided...lol!
@Austin...it is the nature of these boards!
@hawaiiguest...that was a poor illustration...give me a minute to fix that...apologies...
@hawaiiguest...I suppose the best example I could give of someone doing something in the name of anything outside of religion would be of countries making war with other countries for whatever cause they deem important.
@Jeff
You're not understanding. It's not people doing things "in the name of their religion". It's people doing things "because of their religion". A direct analogy would be extremist muslims. Yes not all muslims are like that, but saying that Islamic religious teachings aren't harmful is crap. The actions are taken because their religion teaches it. Children die when their parents don't get them proper medical treatment because that's what their religion tells them to do. Most Christian churches teach a form of passive aggressive bigotry. Where you need to "feel sorry" for those not in the club. The bible itself directly says anyone who doesn't believe in god is an evil person who is incapable of doing any good.
Jeff – i'm not asking for proof of jebus because i'm firmly aware that there isn't any.
also – we're not discussing socrates. couldn't care less. people aren't destroying their lives and the lives of others with socratic drivel. it's not even an issue.
and if those points i brought up can't be discussed in this forum, then where?
look – if you can't refute the points i listed – then just say so... don't give the world a handjob over it.
it makes you look disingenuous.
@the ANVIL
I don't know if anyone can make the claim that Jesus just didn't exist. We do know from other writings of the time that Jesus/Yeshua was a pretty common name. I think you should clarify your statement to say there is no proof that Jesus as characterized by the bible ever existed.
for one, Christianity is harmful in that religion promotes the suppression of critical thinking. if the plethora of churches across the globe could be transformed, say, into homeless shelters and/or the like, then churchgoers would actually be continuing to benefit society without continuing to delude it as well
hawaiiguest – fair enough... i will concede that it is possible that the jebus myth is due to an amalgam. i.e. – more than one person rolled up into a singular person.
i will also concede that the possibility exists that there may have been a singular person to whom the jebus myth is attributed to... however – there still exists no verifiable evidence of the existence of jebus... and furthermore – outside of the biblical account (for which all the authors were anonymous – none of whom were eye witnesses – and all accounts were hearsay at best) no contemporary sources of these accounts exist.
in any and all cases – the divinity of the alleged amalgamated or singular jebus is a farce.
i'm inclined to dismiss the entire thing.
real or not... xianity is repugnant and harmful for all the reasons i listed.
also – let me take this opportunity to thank you for your useful, cogent, reasonable posts on this blog. i wish more people were like you.
Thanks. I think many positions tend to be taken as a hardline stance one way or the other when it doesn't necessarily need to be that way. Im inclined to think that there was probably a doom and gloom hellfire preacher named Jesus whose acts got taken waaay out of proportion.
@ the AnViL
You can't see any of the good they do? Really?
There are Christian groups in my town that provide transitional housing for anyone in need. A church down the street from me places free bread at its front door. Anyone is welcome to take some. Habitat for Humanity also provides a lot of help to people.
A majority of the hospitals in my city were started by Christians.
Not a Christian, but...
I see the good people do. I know for a fact that people can do good things without any religious underpinnings.
While people may do good things in the name of their churches or religions.... this humanistic tendency towards selfless, altruistic, charity never needs to be religious in nature or origin.
I know people from the xian, muslim, hindu, sikh, and buddhist faiths – that do good things AND bad things.
I recognize that it's people – not their faith or religion – that do good things, and they'd do good things no matter what religious beliefs they hold.
or even if they hold none.
of course – none of this excuses the atrocities and horrid nasty aspects inherent in monotheistic religions.
I think christianity is harmful because it says that the christian god created 'the language,' and so all the other language were derived from that language. I'm not sure what 'the language' is but they dismiss and disrespect other older ancient languages. Christianity also demeans animals and nature by stating that they are for people to exploit and consume and that christian god will continue to stock the world with those animals and wilderness, regardless the destruction. 'Just shoot the tiger if you like, the christian god will restock the forests for your children.' They cannot just give credit where it is due, whey christians practice yoga. They have to distort and lie about it. Christians have claimed that yoga originated in Egypt etc., in the belief that Egypt has strong christian ties, and so convince themselves that yoga is not sinful. They refer to other religions as philosophies, and claim that their religion is not a religion at all, but 'the truth.' Do you need more reasons?
The good thing about christianity is that it is the only religion in the US or the whole of the west that can challenge islam and keep that religion at bay. christianity is the lesser of the evils. I support christianity in that sense.
What?? How do you come to that conclusion?
Do you expect to live until your next birthday when you argue with an islamist? I think most christians will not try to decapitate you for being an atheist, so you might as well keep with christian neighbors.
There's no indication that ANY religious affiliation is needed to combat totalitarian regimes. We seem to have done pretty well in vanquishing forces with military might. No religion required.
60% – 80% of Americans will need religion, any religion. For the next 400 years. If you weaken or destroy, people existing faith, another more pernicious religion will take hold. Classical Greek philosophers weakened their religion among the masses and they took up christianity. And of all the people, it was the Greeks who resurrected and popularized christianity. I am not comparing to the Classical Greek philosophers but you must be careful what you wish for.
@Ian
I think you might be oversimplifying (don't know if I spelled that correctly) things. Christianity may not be as overt in it's philocidal tendencies, but the support is there in the bible. The thing is that christianity has been around longer than islam, and has been dragged kicking and screaming along with societies for a longer period of time. Christianity, from a scriptural basis, is no less dangerous that Islam. It just all depends on how fundamental the denomination is.
@ Hawaii guest. Name one verse in the new testament that backs up what you just said!
I can't stand how far you are willing to slander Christianity. Show me the doctrine and scripture you refer to.
...
Why did Christ say, my kingdom is not an earthly kingdom, if it were I would fight. Whe are Christians called to suffer and turn the cheek. Why did the apostles die without fighting. Why are we told to love our enemies. Why are we told to forgive our debtors. Why did he say, forvive tem they know not what they do, to the people killing him?
Why would there be a prophecy for Satan to rule ifnchristians were supposed to make war?
Dude, hitler is in hell too. When you do something out of hatred, and regional conflict, you do it for your own pride and selfishness. Do you think they called it a holy war? Was Iraq a holy war? All nations of people are sinners. Ok any time you get for example the Iraq war, you have a Christian base who are sucked in by evil and decepetion. It falls in the name of sin, not the ministry of Christ. People are to blame for war. I have a different opinion for the old testament, but since Christ, the world is as one nation to God. People are guilty, not Christianity.
@Austin
No one cares what you say Poe.
Overpopulation, unwanted children, women forced to carry pregnancies in horrible situations, gays and lesbians driven to unwarrented guilt and life without love...
I'm an atheist but this Silverman dude is arrogant and his leadership is not advancing his own cause.
I'm a Christian and we have a crap ton of 'leaders' doing that same thing...
is there an atheist cause? Can you elaborate on that please?
David Silverman has one.
Yup. As an atheist, the American Atheists will never represent me with him at the head. Period.