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Atheist group apologizes for misquoting Palin, but defends billboard's intent
March 4th, 2013
04:06 PM ET

Atheist group apologizes for misquoting Palin, but defends billboard's intent

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) – An atheist group that misquoted former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin in a billboard in Texas is apologizing to the Republican and correcting the mistake. But it continues to defend the “intent and context” of the effort.

CNN first reported on Sunday that American Atheists, a group known for its in-your-face tactics, was sponsoring a billboard calling out Palin for something she said while on Fox News.

“We should create law based on the God of the Bible,” the billboard reads.

The only problem: That isn’t what Palin said.

In an interview with Fox News’ Bill O'Reilly, Palin addressed the growth in American secularism by saying of America's founding fathers “we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the Ten Commandments,” not “should.”

Dave Muscato, the group’s public relations director, said in a release that because American Atheists holds itself “to the highest standards of accuracy,” it will “move the quotation marks at our expense, so they do not include the word ‘should.’”

Both Muscato and David Silverman, the group’s president, however, stand by the “intent and context” of the billboard.

“While I admit that the word 'should' should technically not be inside the quote, the meaning was correct,” Silverman said in a statement to CNN.

Silverman initially defended the misquotation, tweeting that “Sarah Palin was NOT Misquoted” and directing readers to a headline from a Huffington Post story. The story headline, however, was also incorrect and did not put quotes around should.

Silverman was critiqued for that double down. Hemant Mehta, an influential atheist blogger at Patheos, wrote that a mistake like this “sheds doubt on the whole idea that atheists are the ones who are being honest with you.”

Although Silverman said in an e-mail to CNN that he believes “Ms. Palin would stand by what we have quoted her as saying,” he said “all future quotes will be exactly as spoken.”

A spokeswoman for Palin failed to respond to CNN’s request for a comment and has not contacted American Atheists about the mistake.

Although Palin’s billboard is getting the most attention, it was one of seven ads going up around the Dallas and Austin, Texas, area. Also featured were: former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, the Rev. Robert Jeffress, pastor at the First Baptist Church in Dallas, and Benedict XVI, now the pope emeritus.

Santorum is condemned for when he told an Iowa crowd last November that, “our civil laws have to comport with a higher law: God's law,” while Gingrich is criticized for a remark he made at a CNN debate on October 18, 2011, in Las Vegas. “How can I trust you with power if you don't pray,” Gingrich posited.

Virginia Davis, spokeswoman for Santorum, thanked American Atheists for the publicity.

“At a time when many are trying to remove God from the public square, the senator is appreciative of someone helping him very publicly express his strong belief that we are one nation under God,” Davis wrote in an e-mail to CNN.

The billboards cost the group $25,000 and will be up for the rest of the month.

American Atheists is used to controversy around their billboards.

Last March, the group targeted Muslims and Jews with billboards that called God a "myth" in both Arabic and Hebrew and the same group posted a billboard around the holiday season in 2010 that read, “You KNOW it's a Myth. This Season, Celebrate REASON.”

Both these billboard campaigns generated resistance and praise from the communities around them.

Silverman, who has been criticized for this brand of atheism, has long defended the tactic, saying confrontation is meant to “grow the cause and benefit the country.”

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Atheism • Politics • Sarah Palin

soundoff (2,069 Responses)
  1. Quest ion

    Why are atheists so obsessed with Palin? I mean, she was completely out of the picture, not in the news anymore. Then why the obsession? Why keep bringing up her name time and again?

    March 8, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Eric G

      As an atheist, I agree. Why trash Palin? The position of the believer is so short on fact, we need only to discuss points on their claims.

      March 8, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Because she came dangerously close to a position that could have left her as the president of the United States. People need to be reminded that it really does matter that you understand what these Christian Right politicians believe.

      March 8, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Quest ion

      So the... are you saying that Christians are never right always wrong, but you atheists are always right and never wrong?

      By virtue of what or by what virtue or defect is that?

      Who gave you that all knowing, know it all capacity/quality/properties?

      March 8, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Quest ion

      Do they have or not a right to their belief?

      March 8, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Quest ion

      Are leaders, politicians, officials, government employees etc., et. al. still part of the People in, "We the people" or not?

      March 8, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Quest ion

      Is it true or not, that American boys claim to treat their ladies and women in general, better than the Taliban does?

      March 8, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • Eric G

      @Quest ion: I'm sorry, but atheists are not the ones making a claim of ultimate knowledge. Believers claim to have knowledge of the origins of the universe. Atheists only ask that they provide verifiable evidence that supports these claims. Believers have not provided this evidence, and thus atheists tell believers that their claims of knowledge are illogical and irrelevant.

      By what means do Believers gain this knowledge? Is it faith?

      March 8, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Ol' Yeller

      "So the... are you saying that Christians are never right always wrong, but you atheists are always right and never wrong?

      By virtue of what or by what virtue or defect is that?"

      No, Christians can be right about a lot of things, but at the same time, I don't think it is a good idea to put someone who believes in mythical stories about the End of Times in charge of a nuclear program with the REAL capabilities of causing the REAL end of times. People like Palin who are observably mentally unstable AND believe in these fairy tales could very well incorporate their beliefs with their insanity and bleed that over into a real/imagined event where they trully believe it was God's intent to place them in the position of being in charge of the 'button' to CAUSE the end of times.
      Now your turn 'Question'... does this sound like a GOOD idea to you? Would you vote to place someone in charge of our country who not only told everyone they knew that they fervently believed Alice in Wonderland was a a non fiction book, but also believed they were a character in it and the Queen of Hearts had ordained them to run?
      Really?

      March 12, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "you atheists are always right and never wrong? " OK, first, which atheists are we? Are we the ones you think are all miserable, or the ones who think we can do whatever we please, or are we all rampant hedonists? You have so many theories about us, and they are all such complete nonsense. I don't go to an "atheist church" or belong to the "atheist organization" or have an "atheist agenda" to push, because I'm just a guy who doesn't go to church. Telling me that you have weird beliefs about me and my life makes me even more certain that you don't know jack spit about God, you know. Why would I believe stuff a simpleton says?

      March 13, 2013 at 11:02 am |
  2. Tool4Jeebus

    Truth: Gawd dun it wif spelz!

    March 8, 2013 at 10:04 am |
    • lol??

      Down at the diner I heard yer daddy braggin' 'bout you doin' it wit yer middle school teacher.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:49 am |
    • .

      Lawzy, lol??, stay outta dah dinah, ya'll gettin fattah by dah minute.

      March 8, 2013 at 11:37 am |
  3. sweenbass

    In all of the books I know of that other people claim to be "Holy" (bible, Quran, Gita, ect...), I have found many things in common

    Do these books have interesting stories? Some do some do not.

    Are there Philosophies that one can reflect on & use to help you improve your life? Yes and those can be found in all of those books & more.

    However, when It comes to matters of the supernatural realm (A deity, an afterlife, a life force, the origin of life, etc...) ,the best that thosebooks can do is speculate.

    Some choose to hang their spiritual hat on speculation. I do not

    Is there a supernatural component to the universe? I don't know. However nothing that I have read any of those books has convinced me that the spiritual speculations in them are anything more than that.

    This is why I am an agnostic.

    March 8, 2013 at 8:28 am |
    • Pastafairian

      sweenbass
      If you have ever quaffed a pint or devoured mac and cheese you can throw off the tag of agnostic and if you do read the Gospel of the FSM all your doubts will be explained.
      RAmen....peace and love from the FSM.

      March 8, 2013 at 8:49 am |
    • Truth Prevails

      sweenbass: Agnosticism only defines knowledge, it does not define belief. Do you believe a god or gods exist? If you say no then you're an Atheist, if you say yes, you're a theist. Most honest people on either side are agnostic.

      March 8, 2013 at 9:03 am |
    • Tim

      Truth Prevails
      Still, you eventually have to choose to live your life as though God exists, or doesn't. A true agnostic cannot relax in the belief that some god isn't going to smite them some day, or bask in the belief that some god is out there working to their benefit. So, in practical terms, one cannot remain a happy agnostic forever.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • Science

      sweenbass Facts work like gravity

      Curtains Down for the Black Hole Firewall Paradox: Making Gravity Safe for Einstein Again

      Mar. 6, 2013 — Research by scientists at the University of York has revealed new insights into the life and death of black holes. Their findings dispel the so-called firewall paradox which shocked the physics community when it was announced in 2012 since its predictions about large black holes contradicted Einstein's crowning achievement - the theory of general relativity. Those results suggested that anyone falling into a black hole would be burned up as they crossed its edge - the so-called event horizon.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130306084151.htm

      Peace

      March 8, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • Bible Clown©

      Right! I'm pretty sure atheism is correct, but I would have to actually be able to check the entire infinite universe for Gods to be certain. Agnostic, meaning I think there's no god but have no proof either way, is what most Christians actually believe down deep.

      March 13, 2013 at 11:04 am |
  4. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    March 8, 2013 at 7:42 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      March 8, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • Really?

      "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things"

      That's why the data has shown that atheists have happier and healthier lives than conservative Christians. Your post is built on a lie.

      March 8, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • Bible Clown©

      Atheism's healthy enough that I've outlived plenty of Christians. Is your head actually a jar filled with cookies?

      March 13, 2013 at 11:08 am |
  5. breathe deep

    But seeing as how I'm not done yet...

    "y,the gift is forgiveness. For what? Sin. If you really understand sin, when ask forgiveness, you don't do it like a stuck up "fine then, I'll take it, i can use that". That is not genuine. He knows your motives. It is about the communion your soul with God."

    And it is also not genuine when you think your going to be judged on it. That's fear. If I tell you that I'm going to shoot off one your fingers every time you spill a drink, you're certainly going to go out of your way to not spill anything that can be remotley associated with a drink. And as any kind of compassionate being I would not shoot off a finger every time your drink spilled because you were tremoring so much from fear of spilling your drink.

    "That's when you seek forgiveness, to establish yournrelationshipmwith God. Not a ticket out of hell, that is not genuine
    If you understand sin, you understand how much you need forgiveness. You get it, and you still sin."

    But that only exends into issues of gay coitus right?

    "Then you are unworthy to keep expecting anything, but he revives, sustains, and faithfully keeps you under his wing. Then you start understanding how you could possibly love god back. He is your heavenly father. You begin to appreciate his promise, you remember your contempt, and insanity of sin. Your relationship is like any other, it grows. And believe me, he gives out faith in ways that will light you up. He is everything the bible says. A judge, a comforter."

    This might very well help somebody who has not had any tradgeties befall their families. But for the people that have had their eyes opened by reality, this is discomforting and quite calous.

    March 8, 2013 at 3:26 am |
    • Free nuts

      Nuts Free

      March 8, 2013 at 7:30 am |
    • Austin

      The day you eat of the tree you shall surely die.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:49 am |
    • 7

      Austin,

      I do not believe your schizo "revelations" are fact.

      I do not believe that the fantasies and supersti-tions of long-deal Palestinians are facts.

      Have you got anything else?

      (p.s. Don't bother telling me to ask "God". One would have to first believe in this "God" to talk to 'him'. Have you fervently asked Allah if he is real? Ra? Vishnu? Any of the others?)

      March 8, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • 7

      * long-deal = long-dead

      March 8, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      Austin, I got a tree you can eat. Right here.

      March 13, 2013 at 11:08 am |
  6. Bob

    Chad, how are your thigh workouts going? Does Rachel-Chad still not have a gap?

    March 8, 2013 at 12:29 am |
  7. Quest ion

    What's the cause? Which country?

    March 8, 2013 at 12:21 am |
  8. Reality

    Only for the new members of this blog:

    Then there is this billboard:

    WHERE WAS YOUR GOD(S) WHEN THE FOLLOWING TOOK PLACE:

    The Twenty (or so) Worst Things GOD'S CREATURES Have Done to Each Other:
    M. White, http://necrometrics.com/warstatz.htm#u (required reading)

    The Muslim Conquest of India

    "The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "

    Rank …..Death Toll ..Cause …..Centuries……..(Religions/Groups involved)*

    1. 63 million Second World War 20C (Christians et al and Communists/atheists vs. Christians et al, Nazi-Pagan and "Shintoists")

    2. 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C (Communism)

    3. 40 million Genghis Khan 13C (Shamanism or Tengriism)

    4. 27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C (Anglican)

    5. 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Chinese folk religion)

    6. 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C ( Confucianism, Buddhism and Chinese folk religion vs. a form of Christianity)

    7. 20 million Joseph Stalin 20C (Communism)

    8. 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C (Islam)

    9. 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C

    10. 16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C (Christianity)

    11. 15 million First World War 20C (Christians vs. Christians)

    12. 15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C (Christians vs. Pagans)

    13. 13 million Muslim Conquest of India 11C-18C

    14. 10 million An Lushan Revolt 8C

    15. 10 million Xin Dynasty 1C

    16. 9 million Russian Civil War 20C (Christians vs Communists)

    17. 8 million Fall of Rome 5C (Pagans vs. Christians)

    18. 8 million Congo Free State 19C-20C (Christians)

    19. 7½ million Thirty Years War 17C (Christians vs Christians)

    20. 7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C

    March 7, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
    • HarryGP

      God has given and taken away the breathe of life, for everyone that ever lived, not just those. Ours is next...

      March 7, 2013 at 11:28 pm |
    • Austin

      Are you free? The God of this world, a supernatural fallen evil angel is Satan. Then wages of sin are death.

      You are free to choose to worship God or not. But there always were those who did, and so he won't flood the earth again, and his kingdom is being built as the groom prepares a place for the bride in heaven.

      March 7, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
    • Austin

      And the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus.

      March 7, 2013 at 11:34 pm |
    • 7

      "free gift" is a redundant phrase. If it's a gift it's free, by definition.

      BTW, your touted "free gift" is not free anyway.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:18 am |
    • Quest ion

      What is "Reality", what is Real? Are you a fake? Are you really real?

      March 8, 2013 at 12:23 am |
    • breathe deep

      No free gift with conditions has ever been given to me on any birthday. The free gift being god's love right? We just have to accept it right? How is that different than a really annoying child giving a super cool gift to your child on their birthday saying that they can have it as long as they can be really good friends.

      March 8, 2013 at 1:46 am |
    • 7

      breathe deep,

      Yes, this "free gift" (if it existed) is no different than Dr. Faustus' "deal with the Devil". One must totally give over one's "heart", "soul" and very life to this fantasy being in return for the "promise" of this "gift" of eternal bliss.

      March 8, 2013 at 1:58 am |
    • Austin

      y,the gift is forgiveness. For what? Sin. If you really understand sin, when ask forgiveness, you don't do it like a stuck up "fine then, I'll take it, i can use that". That is not genuine. He knows your motives. It is about the communion your soul with God. That's when you seek forgiveness, to establish yournrelationshipmwith God. Not a ticket out of hell, that is not genuine
      If you understand sin, you understand how much you need forgiveness. You get it, and you still sin. Then you are unworthy to keep expecting anything, but he revives, sustains, and faithfully keeps you under his wing. Then you start understanding how you could possibly love god back. He is your heavenly father. You begin to appreciate his promise, you remember your contempt, and insanity of sin. Your relationship is like any other, it grows. And believe me, he gives out faith in ways that will light you up. He is everything the bible says. A judge, a comforter.

      March 8, 2013 at 2:39 am |
    • breathe deep

      I have to give mats off the Austin here who has cleanly stayed on topic as per their beliefs, something very rare these days. So if I don't get another chance, I say thank you Austin.

      March 8, 2013 at 3:13 am |
    • ¿¿lol

      Not sure if this was included: Srebrenica, 1995, over 8500 unarmed men and boys slaughtered because of their religion by Christian troops.

      March 8, 2013 at 8:21 am |
    • sam stone

      "The wages of sin is death"

      But, after the taxes are taken out, you are just left with a sort of tired feeling

      March 8, 2013 at 8:24 am |
    • sam stone

      Austin: What makes you so certain you understand "sin"?

      March 8, 2013 at 9:27 am |
    • Tim

      Austin
      "Sin" is a religious concept. It comes from a religious book. Sin is offending the ego of the god. In modern times, it's basically a sin to offend a dictator like a Kim Jong Un, or Stalin. Do we really need this kind of thinking in this, the Land of the Free?

      Getting people to believe that they are inadequate due to original sin is every bit as much bullying as people getting you to believe that you're inadequate because you're not thin enough, or popular enough. The prevention for bullying is to not let the bullies affect you with their words. So, if salvation is the cure for original sin, then atheism is the prevention.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:01 am |
    • Austin

      Sin leads to death, spiritual and physical. The first sin, eating the fruit that had a death sentence, in the presence of God, and hiding from God at the same time. Was insanity. Suicide. And our sin is the same type of helpless I sanity. If you saw God, you would turn around and sin. You proof would fail you, because you would be helpless to obey Gods standards of being obedient rather than selfishly corrupt.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • Dennis

      Austin, thanks for admitting that your sky daddy is a vengeant ass hole.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:46 am |
    • Austin

      Dennis

      When you die, your choices become reality. God loves you, you have been justified, and the victory and work of atonement is finished. God is not taking vengeance on you. You are taking it on him and yourself.

      Satan is the god of this world, a supernatural evil. When he told eve, you can not touch it or eat it, he tricked her. She was allowed to touch it, but not eat it. He deceived her. And she agreed with Satan.

      Now your door to communion and atonement, redemption, has been established. This is a finished work. Don't deceive yourself with self worship, a prideful worldly satanic religion. He is risen. If you are devoted to yourself, this is idolatry.

      Are you a free man? Well you are free to choose your God, and there are two destinations of your particular choice. The choice is yours. You can't blame God for your choices.

      March 8, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • .

      Autin is soouting bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • Tim

      Austin
      How, exactly, was Adam able to "hide" from God? Why was God "walking" in the Garden anyway? Seems that God wasn't so all-powerful in the beginning, eh?

      March 8, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • fintastic

      @austin............ your "devil" "Satan" is pure fantasy, mythology... .... stop trying to scare little children with this crap you dip wad.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "Austin" seems to have some horrible sins on his conscience. Perhaps he takes a wide stance in the airport bathrooms? Maybe he breaks his eggs at the wrong end? I bet he's worn fabric woven of cotton AND polyester. Poor guy. He's doomed to hell.

      March 13, 2013 at 11:14 am |
  9. Bob

    Back to the top. Austin, you remain a coward. Read the actual question that I asked again, and try for a change to respond to what you are being asked instead of making more slippery attempts to change the subject.

    Respond directly for a change, or I'll just yank you back to the question again. Here it is:

    How is killing and/or burning another creature (a "sacrifice") an appropriate response after a moral error or "sin"? Why would an omnipotent creature, a "god", need you to do any such thing? Pretty much all the premises and guidances of your disgusting religion in such matters are absurd, unwarranted, and stupid.

    Do the world a favor and get over your harmful and cruel Christian superstitions already. Their time is long past, and really never should have been.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

    March 7, 2013 at 11:02 pm |
    • Chad

      you dont believe in punishing someone for a crime they committed?

      If someone killed your entire family, you would just wish them a good day?

      March 7, 2013 at 11:27 pm |
    • Austin

      Bob, Christians still take communion, see my response below.

      March 7, 2013 at 11:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So, Chad, any takers today? Anybody fall on their knees, begging to hear more about the holy spirit? Or was it just another day of words and more words, as usual?

      March 7, 2013 at 11:35 pm |
    • Austin

      Tom Tom, the labor of love is worth it. We love you.

      March 7, 2013 at 11:44 pm |
    • .

      Oh, don't give me that shit. A baby is born into this world having already sinned, according to this BS. An innocent, just born, has already committed a sin, just by being born at all. How is this, in any way, shape, or form, begging justice? What a bunch of pure, unadulterated bullshit. Indoctrination runs very deep, and the guilt complex, for any rational freaking human being to conflate this with any form of "justice". And DON'T give me that song and dance about original sin, either. The freaking tree of knowledge has never been satisfactorily explained. If God is all knowing, the tree is unnecessary, unless God needs a refresher course. If he doesn't, why the tree? To "test" A E? Unnecessary. You go from one point, that tree, and it just seems to fall apart from there, if one can suspend belief enough swallow the "rib" baloney...
      All right, enough.
      Just answer the one question:

      Why did God make that tree? He already possessed the knowledge, therefore it was not needed. Answer the tree question, Chad and Austin.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:01 am |
    • Chad

      seems like a simple question..

      you dont believe in punishing someone for a crime they committed?

      If someone killed your entire family, you would just wish them a good day?

      March 8, 2013 at 12:04 am |
    • Austin

      La vista church of christ
      "Answer:
      God created man to beings free to chose whether to serve God or not. God desires people who freely chose to serve Him. If God did not put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden, then there would have been no choice.

      But notice that something else must also exist for man to be able to chose to follow God or to disobey Him. God had to give him a law. Without a law, no choice can exist. Right and wrong always exists, but unless we are made aware of the choice through a law, we cannot be held responsible for keeping or breaking the law. See Paul's comment on this fact in Romans 5:13. What we call sin is when a law of God is broken (see I John 3:4).

      Therefore, God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden and He gave man a law stating that eating of its fruit would produce death. God even made it easy to keep the law. It wasn't as if the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the only source of food nearby. God put the tree in the middle of a very large garden that contained very type of flowering and fruit producing trees. Adam and Eve had to pass by may alternatives in order to chose this one tree that was off-limits.

      Why do innocent people suffer? There are a variety of answers to this question:
      1) They suffer because they are not truly innocent. All people sin (Romans 3:22) and sins have consequences.
      2) They suffer because other people sin. The consequences of sin is broader than just the one who sins.
      3) They suffer because Satan wants to bring people down (Job 1:6-12).
      4) God allows suffering to strengthen His people (Hebrews 12:4-13; James 1:2-4)."

      March 8, 2013 at 12:09 am |
    • .

      Answer my question, Chad. Seems a simple enough question, also. Why the tree?

      And I'll answer your question, Chad. No. But then, we don't send up a sacrifice for killing a family, either, which is WHAT BOB WAS SAYING, OH, DISINGENOUS ONE. Incaplable of answering a question, are you?

      March 8, 2013 at 12:11 am |
    • breathe deep

      It seems that chads answer is that they deserved it. god knew that mankind was able to be tempted, so god put up a tree knowing that it would be tempting, he then punished the man for being tempted, and punishes all of mankind forever because of it. It seems like chad and austin are trying ever so hard to not only get people to believe in god, but also hate him.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:20 am |
    • .

      Sorry, but that was unnecessary, given that he invented knowledge, including all of the evil in the world, supposedly. Still not a satisfactory answer.
      Plainly put, he created man to fail. Nice guy. Not buying it. Sorry.
      May as well just give the serial killer a pass, for all the good Godly intervention does.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:26 am |
    • Bob

      Chad, how are your thigh workouts going? Does Rachel-Chad still not have a gap?

      March 8, 2013 at 12:28 am |
    • .

      Breathe deep, I agree. Their answers are no answer at all. I may as well be asking a magic 8 ball for more answers than they can give me. At least Austin c/p an answer, bad as it was...Chad, typically, ran away.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:32 am |
    • Austin

      That tree was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve had already eaten of the good, making the right choices, which led to positive consequences. To eat of the evil is to accept a belief into your heart that is not the truth. This causes us to make the wrong decisions, the consequences of which are negative, unfavorable.

      God would have preferred that they not eat of the evil, so they would not have to suffer the consequences. But God wanted his human to have the ability to take in both thoughts, giving power to whichever one he chose to accept into his heart.

      Eve took in the thought that was wrong (aka, serpent).
      Eve symbolizes the mind.
      Adam accepted the thought as truth.
      Adam symbolizes the heart.

      The word "serpent" means "learn by experience."

      We have all eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, as some of what we were taught was right, and some of what we were taught was wrong. It is up to us to learn by our experiences and separate out the evil by changing those beliefs that are in error (aka, sin).

      March 8, 2013 at 12:53 am |
    • Austin

      That was another c/p and the reference didn't make it.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:54 am |
    • breathe deep

      Whoa! hold on there Austin, that is an account I have never heard before. So let's take this slowly, I'll try to go line by line.

      "Adam and Eve had already eaten of the good, making the right choices, which led to positive consequences."

      Does this mean they had to eat from the tree multiple times?

      "To eat of the evil is to accept a belief into your heart that is not the truth. This causes us to make the wrong decisions, the consequences of which are negative, unfavorable."

      Who would knowingly eat/consume evil? Does this manufacture into 'we wanted good', 'so here comes the bad'?

      "God would have preferred that they not eat of the evil, so they would not have to suffer the consequences. But God wanted his human to have the ability to take in both thoughts, giving power to whichever one he chose to accept into his heart. "

      I'm sorry but to just inflict mankind with eternal damnation for such atrocities such as wanting to learn more, wanting to make things better, wanting to find out what's around us, seems like such a characteristic that a god would be not associated with. Certainly not one I would want to idolize.

      " the ability to take in both thoughts, giving power to whichever one he chose to accept into his heart. "

      I have to make special note of this. Repeating (not word for word)what you said here "the ability to see(take in) both good and evil(thought's), ... gives way to evil (giving power ... accepted... in his heart)." right?

      "Eve took in the thought that was wrong (aka, serpent).
      Eve symbolizes the mind.
      Adam accepted the thought as truth.
      Adam symbolizes the heart.
      The word "serpent" means "learn by experience."

      I think it's kind weak to blame a woman (another creature from a male (him) god) for the origination of only the bad things that happen to the world. Not to mention the fact that this quote is telling you to not trust your mind, but to trust your heart. I'm sorry but when I am cutting steel beams, I am going to trust that the designers and engineers did their job accordingly rather than just trusting that whatever they send me is right (which is also why it gets backchecked by many people).

      "We have all eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, as some of what we were taught was right, and some of what we were taught was wrong. It is up to us to learn by our experiences and separate out the evil by changing those beliefs that are in error (aka, sin)."

      Certainly an admirable goal, one that we should all ascribe to. But my concern would lay in the realm of "what if jesus turned out to be an alien from another planet that took the form of a human on our planet ... blah blah blah" Would you accept it simply because it still involves the person/god jesus, or would you dismiss it as crazy rabble stealing from our bible rabble rabble?

      Thank you for taking the time to answer this post.

      March 8, 2013 at 1:42 am |
    • Austin

      "Adam and Eve had already eaten of the good, making the right choices, which led to positive consequences."

      Referring to the other trees in the garden.

      "To eat of the evil is to accept a belief into your heart that is not the truth. This causes us to make the wrong decisions, the consequences of which are negative, unfavorable."

      Who would knowingly eat/consume evil? Does this manufacture into 'we wanted good', 'so here comes the bad'?
      Temptation was an attack with the intent to destroy. Eve turned from Gods command, and basically worshipped Satan, and she should have died. She put her life on the line. The just punishment was immediate death, because God said, the day you eat of it you shall surely die. This as no accident or small biff or fib.

      "God would have preferred that they not eat of the evil, so they would not have to suffer the consequences. But God wanted his human to have the ability to take in both thoughts, giving power to whichever one he chose to accept into his heart. "

      I'm sorry but to just inflict mankind with eternal damnation for such atrocities such as wanting to learn more, wanting to make things better, wanting to find out what's around us, seems like such a characteristic that a god would be not associated with. Certainly not one I would want to idolize.

      The statement you make is very bold. You condone disobedience to then give of life? And disrespect him? this is serious pride, and down playing the importance of eve not sinning. Their sin cursed the entire world. They should have died for such a disrespect to the lord God. After all, he directly spoke to them and waned them. He laid down the law and the punishment.

      " the ability to take in both thoughts, giving power to whichever one he chose to accept into his heart. "

      I have to make special note of this. Repeating (not word for word)what you said here "the ability to see(take in) both good and evil(thought's), ... gives way to evil (giving power ... accepted... in his heart)." right?

      "Eve took in the thought that was wrong (aka, serpent).
      Eve symbolizes the mind.
      Adam accepted the thought as truth.
      Adam symbolizes the heart.
      The word "serpent" means "learn by experience."

      I think it's kind weak to blame a woman (another creature from a male (him) god) for the origination of only the bad things that happen to the world. Not to mention the fact that this quote is telling you to not trust your mind, but to trust your heart. I'm sorry but when I am cutting steel beams, I am going to trust that the designers and engineers did their job accordingly rather than just trusting that whatever they send me is right (which is also why it gets backchecked by many people).

      "We have all eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, as some of what we were taught was right, and some of what we were taught was wrong. It is up to us to learn by our experiences and separate out the evil by changing those beliefs that are in error (aka, sin)."qq

      Certainly an admirable goal, one that we should all ascribe to. But my concern would lay in the realm of "what if jesus turned out to be an alien from another planet that took the form of a human on our planet ... blah blah blah" Would you accept it simply because it still involves the person/god jesus, or would you dismiss it as crazy rabble stealing from our bible

      Well the theological approach to distinguishing the difference between the mind and heart is not a way to discriminate gender. When God came to back adam blamed eve for his own sin, wihich was unacceptable because Adam was responsible for both of them. we all have heart and mind.

      Your next question is really strange, and there is already a theory by Thomas horn, that the Antichrist will be an alien who claims to be savior. So our question isn't funny, it's scary. The anti Christ will deceive the entire world with a false religion, and to avoid going on the wrong track, you should rely on the baptism of the holy spirit, pray for faith and guidance, and trust in gods word. Jesus fulfilled so many prophecies, that the bible is clearly inspired. Let the word dwell richly in you. Abide in the truth of the living word.

      Jesus does not need a space ship to move. He knows your thoughts, and he can reveal himself to you through his word. Pray, ask for faith, and meditate on his words. And do ask for forgiveness and His spirit.

      March 8, 2013 at 2:12 am |
    • breathe deep

      "Referring to the other trees in the garden."

      Wait, there were trees of only good, and others (maybe one) that good and evil?

      "Temptation was an attack with the intent to destroy. Eve turned from Gods command, and basically worshipped Satan, and she should have died. She put her life on the line. The just punishment was immediate death, because God said, the day you eat of it you shall surely die. This as no accident or small biff or fib. "

      So temptation (evil) was placed in the perfect garden so as to tempt the perfect creation into acting out on temptation. Sounds a lot like my late nights with my sims.

      March 8, 2013 at 2:30 am |
    • Austin

      Ya there were ok trees. And the forbidden one. Talk to ya later. Have a good one I gotta turn in.

      March 8, 2013 at 2:44 am |
    • Mass Debater

      "Ya there were ok trees. And the forbidden one."

      And again Austin shows us how little he actually knows about his own bible.

      "22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Gen 3:22-24

      Two tree's of which they were not to eat, not one.

      March 8, 2013 at 6:18 am |
    • Mass Debater

      One thing I had not noticed till now, Genesis tell's us that it was God who invented the first sword. Interesting.

      March 8, 2013 at 6:22 am |
    • Mass Debater

      Also curious to note, why would Adam and Eve be afraid of a flaming sword if they had not known death before Cains killing of Able? Did God show them how it worked by smacking them with it a few times?

      March 8, 2013 at 6:25 am |
    • Science

      MS

      LOL on the smack down !!!

      March 8, 2013 at 6:59 am |
    • Science

      Oops Dame thumb MD NOT MS sorry

      March 8, 2013 at 7:02 am |
    • Tim

      Chad
      We democratically decide what things are crimes in our society and what appropriate punishments are. The Bible lists crimes and punishments that were chosen by an elect few. They were not democratically selected, and cannot be democratically amended either, right? People can democratically choose whether or not to rule their own lives by the Bible, but Christians argue that choosing not to still makes one subject to Bible judgment. That's a dictatorship, isn't it?

      March 8, 2013 at 8:41 am |
    • Austin

      Maa debater
      The sword of Truth is part of the armor of God, not a metal sword. Sword of fire, not a metal sword. Does this mean God invented sword, no. We do know that god made tunics of skin,, this was a substi.tutionary death, god is supernatural he does not require tools.

      There were good trees in the garden, Adam did the one thing he was told he would die from.

      March 8, 2013 at 9:58 am |
    • End Religion

      Austin, evidently god does require tools: like you, Chad, Topher, Lie4It and many other lunatics.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:03 am |
    • Austin

      Ok but not to do a miracle. God knows what a sword is. So does Satan. God knew first.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • Tim

      Austin
      Sure he does. With so many "miracles" being things that are easily explained away it takes committed believers to insist that they had to have a supernatural cause. A "miracle" is only in the eye of the beholder. One man's image of the Virgin Mary is only another man's burnt piece of toast.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • Chad

      "why the tree" – free will (I dont like it either, but I'm not God)

      ======
      @Tim
      So, you're ok with punishment, but you dont like the fact that the God of Israel is all-powerful.
      well, that's reality.. He is.

      what are you going to say to Him when He asks to supply a reason for why you shouldnt be punished for all the bad things you have ever done?

      March 8, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • Tim

      Austin
      Sure he does. With so many "miracles" being things that are easily explained away it takes committed believers to insist that they had to have a supernatural cause. A "miracle" is only in the eye of the beholder. Even within Christianity, one man's image of the Virgin Mary is only another man's burnt piece of toast.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:19 am |
    • Tim

      Chad
      Sometimes I do bad things that I acknowledge really are bad, but there are other things that I do, like not believing in God, that I just do not believe are bad. I don't believe that I deserve to be punished for this any more than I believe that citizens of North Korea deserve to be punished for not treating the Kims as godlike. The Kims may have the power to punish their citizens for not treating them like gods, and there may be a God out there with the power to punish me too, but that still doesn't make it right. What you're saying is that you don't believe in freedom, right?

      March 8, 2013 at 10:26 am |
    • Chad

      what are you going to say to Him when He asks to supply a reason for why you shouldnt be punished for all the bad things you have ever done?

      so, your answer is, "I'm not as bad as other people, and in any case, who made you the judge of me?"

      March 8, 2013 at 10:32 am |
    • Bob

      My answer could be, "well, at least I didn't pretend to be Rachel"...eh, Chad-Rachel...

      March 8, 2013 at 10:47 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Bob, haha. "Bazinga!"

      March 8, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • Austin

      In my case i Iwould have to lie to myself to say, god is not capable of the supernatural. I have experienced The living God, and He sustains my faith. He has showed me the reality of good and evil. The living God is risen.. Jesus was God in the flesh and He is risen. There is also an enemy, and self worship is a religion of this world, whiich is a pride vice of satanic idolatry.

      Excessive devotion to self is satanic idolatry.

      March 8, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Mark

      Austin
      Wouldn't you also have to lie to yourself to say that other gods aren't capable of the supernatural?

      March 8, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • Austin

      N, Jesus said that Satan is the god of this world. Satan is very powerfully supernatural. As soon as the angels fell, Satan began deceiving with religious mimicry. Just how far Satan can go, I don't know, but he clearly has supernatural power to deceive the world with.

      March 8, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • Eric G

      @Chad: "seems like a simple question..you dont believe in punishing someone for a crime they committed? If someone killed your entire family, you would just wish them a good day?"

      Personally, I do believe in the concept of punishment. Are you trying to equate being born with a unproven "original sin" with someone killing your entire family? Bit of a stretch there, even for you.

      But, now that you brought it up......

      If your god is all powerful, as you claim, it would be responsible for the death of not just your close family, but every relative you have ever had. How do you plan to punish your god? What punishment do you think is justified for killing every loved one you ever knew?

      March 8, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • Chad

      @Eric G "Personally, I do believe in the concept of punishment. Are you trying to equate being born with a unproven "original sin" with someone killing your entire family?"
      @Chad "The only sin that keeps you permanently estranged from God is rejecting the work of Jesus, infants arent capable of that, so dying prior to the age at which you are capable of rejecting Jesus (only God knows what age that is) doesnt keep you separated from God. That is my view, and I believe what the bible teaches.

      ======
      @Eric G. "If your god is all powerful, as you claim, it would be responsible for the death of not just your close family, but every relative you have ever had. How do you plan to punish your god? What punishment do you think is justified for killing every loved one you ever knew?"
      @Chad "killing?
      death entered our world a long time ago as a result of human actions. We are responsible for that..

      March 8, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • Eric G

      @Chad: I am sorry, but your attempts at moving the goal posts are failing.

      You claim that we are responsible for death, but he created us, but he is not responsible.

      You are being dishonest.

      Besides, you have provided no verifiable evidence that your god exists. Start there.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • Chad

      @Eric G "I am sorry, but your attempts at moving the goal posts are failing."
      @Chad "how have I moved goalposts?

      @Eric G "You claim that we are responsible for death, but he created us, but he is not responsible."
      @Chad "correct, you need to read Genesis... why dont you try and at least get familiar with the Judeo/Christian claim before attempting to criticize it? I know.. it's a weird concept for most atheists, but you might consider trying it.

      @Eric G "You are being dishonest."
      @Chad "how so? I'm sorry, but the atheist as sertion that anyone that believes the God of Israel is real is lying, just is simply nonsense.

      @Eric G. "Besides, you have provided no verifiable evidence that your god exists. Start there"
      @CHad "OK,

      Historical evidence
      – no historical detail in the bible has ever been proved to be incorrect
      – Historicity of Jesus of Nazareth
      – Historicity of the empty tomb
      – Origin of the disciples belief that they had met a resurrected Jesus, a belief they held so strongly that they were willing to go to their deaths proclaiming the truth.

      Scientific evidence for the God of Israel
      Fossil Record.
      From the late 1800's thru 1972 the notion of "Darwinian gradualism" held the world captive. The notion that purely random mutation preserved in the population by natural selection would produce a gradual change, which over time would create the complexity of life we now observe (phyletic gradualism).
      Then, in 1972 the publication of "Punctuated equilibria: an alternative to phyletic gradualism" by Stephen Gould (atheist) finally forced the scientific world to accept the reality that the fossil record does not show the gradual change over time that Darwin proposed.

      Instead, what the community was forced to acknowledge, is that the fossil record reflects stasis and rapid change.
      This supports the theistic evolutionist claim that God used natural processes to develop life on this earth, as pure chance can never explain the grand paroxysm of necessarily interrelated mutations that are required to occur to accomplish this rapid change.

      Origins of the universe
      For most of scientific history, the universe was thought to have always existed, directly refuting the theistic claim that the universe had a beginning, and a creator.

      Then, a series of discoveries resulted in a complete transformation of thought, we now know that our universe has not always existed, rather it had a beginning, confirming the theistic claim:
      – 1929: Edwin Hubble discovers red shift (the stars and planets are all moving away from each other. The universe is expanding in all directions)
      – 1965: discovery of microwave cosmic background radiation (the echo's of the big bang)
      – 1998, two independent research groups studying distant supernovae were astonished to discover, against all expectations, that the current expansion of the universe is accelerating (Reiss 1998, Perlmutter 1999).
      – 2003: Borde, Guth, and Vilenkin's Past-Finite Universe proves our universe had a beginning

      Fine Tuning of the universe
      In the past 30 or 40 years, scientists have been astonished to find that the initial conditions of our universe were fine-tuned for the existence of building blocks of life. Constants such as gravitational constant have been found, the variation of which to even the smallest degree, would have rendered the universe utterly incapable of supporting life.

      "There is now broad agreement among physicists and cosmologists that the Universe is in several respects ‘fine-tuned' for life". However, he continues, "the conclusion is not so much that the Universe is fine-tuned for life; rather it is fine-tuned for the building blocks and environments that life requires." - Paul Davies

      "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the mas ses of the proton and the electron. ... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life - Stephen Hawking

      “As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.” - Professor Freeman J. Dyson of the Insti tute for Advanced Study in Princeton

      Now, neither Davies or Hawking is a believer in God. They both believe in fine tuning, they just posit natural reasons for it.

      Evidence from human experience
      – Objective morality exists
      – Free will exists (it doesn’t in the atheist/naturalist/determinist view)

      March 8, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Eric G

      @Chad: Sorry, you are missing the point. You must provide verifiable evidence supporting your claim that a god exists.

      Then, you must provide verifiable evidence supporting your claim that your specific god exists.

      Then, you must provide verifiable evidence supporting your claim that your specific god has the abilities you claim.....

      and on and on and on.............

      I will say it again..... Your claim that a god exists carries an inherent burden of proof. You have not satisfied this burden of proof. Until you satisfy this burden of proof, all additional claims made are irrelevant.

      Please insert "circular argument" joke where you try to use your bible as proof.

      To your posts, I respond with the level of intellect they deserve.....

      "Wrong, sir! Wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by him, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if – and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy – "I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges, and licenses herein and herein contained," et cetera, et cetera... "Fax mentis, incendium gloria cultum," et cetera, et cetera... Memo bis punitor delicatum! It's all there! Black and white, clear as crystal! You STOLE Fizzy-Lifting Drinks! You BUMPED into the ceiling, which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get... NOTHING!!! You lose! GOOD DAY, SIR!" – Willy Wonka

      March 8, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • Chad

      sure, first, could you explain a couple things:
      1. what do you mean by "verifiable evidence", can you provide an example
      2. how would you use that standard to prove for example, that an ancient person like aristotle or homer, exists?
      – How would you use that standard to prove that I exist?
      – How would you use that standard to prove that other universes exist (such as is proposed for the multi-verse theory of the origin of our universe)..

      thanks!

      March 8, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • End Religion

      Over and over we post Craig getting his testicles crushed in debate over his wacky "objective moral values" claptrap. We've repeatedly refuted Chad's flawed "fine tuning arguments". So sad...

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baZUCc5m8sE&w=640&h=360]

      March 8, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • End Religion

      Science has made great discoveries in the past 100 years confirming the reality of the Flying Spaghetti Monster as creator.

      Historical evidence
      – no historical detail in the The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has ever been proved to be incorrect
      – Historicity of the Spaghedeity
      – Historicity of the empty colander
      – Origin of the disciples belief that they had met a boiled Flying Spaghetti Monster, a belief they held so strongly that they were willing to go to their deaths proclaiming the truth.

      Fossil Record
      From the late 1800's thru 1972 the notion of "Darwinian gradualism" held the world captive. The notion that purely random mutation preserved in the population by natural selection would produce a gradual change, which over time would create the complexity of life we now observe (phyletic gradualism).

      Then, in 1972 the publication of "Punctuated equilibria: an alternative to phyletic gradualism" by Stephen Gould (atheist) finally forced the scientific world to accept the reality that the fossil record does not show the gradual change over time that Darwin proposed.

      Instead, what the community was forced to acknowledge, is that the fossil record reflects stasis and rapid change. This supports the theistic evolutionist claim that FSM used natural processes to develop life on this earth, as pure chance can never explain the grand paroxysm of necessarily interrelated mutations that are required to occur to accomplish this rapid change.

      Origins of the universe
      For most of scientific history, the universe was thought to have always existed, directly refuting the theistic claim that the universe had a beginning, and a creator.

      Then, a series of discoveries resulted in a complete transformation of thought, we now know that our universe has not always existed, rather it had a beginning, confirming the theistic claim:
      – 1929: Edwin Hubble discovers red shift (the stars and planets are all moving away from each other. The universe is expanding in all directions)
      – 1965: discovery of microwave cosmic background radiation (the echo's of the big bang)
      – 1998, two independent research groups studying distant supernovae were astonished to discover, against all expectations, that the current expansion of the universe is accelerating (Reiss 1998, Perlmutter 1999).
      – 2003: Borde, Guth, and Vilenkin's Past-Finite Universe proves our universe had a beginning

      Fine Tuning of the universe
      In the past 30 or 40 years, scientists have been astonished to find that the initial conditions of our universe were fine-tuned for the existence of building blocks of life. Constants such as gravitational constant have been found, the variation of which to even the smallest degree, would have rendered the universe utterly incapable of supporting life.

      "There is now broad agreement among physicists and cosmologists that the Universe is in several respects ‘fine-tuned' for life". However, he continues, "the conclusion is not so much that the Universe is fine-tuned for life; rather it is fine-tuned for the building blocks and environments that life requires." – Paul Davies

      "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and the electron. ... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life – Stephen Hawking

      Now, neither Davies or Hawking is a believer in FSM. They both believe in fine tuning, they just posit natural reasons for it. The only problem with my fine tuning argument is...
      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt-UIfkcgPY&w=640&h=360]

      March 8, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      And here's Chad with the same old fallacies, the same old dodges, and the same old dishonesty. Just another day.

      March 8, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Eric, just so you know, Chad posts this same list of questions to any relative newcomer who used the words "verifiable evidence" so he has heard all the responses already, both good and bad.

      March 8, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • Eric G

      @Chad: No, I will not answer your questions. Stay on task. You are the one who believes, you must have an idea of what "verifiable evidence" is. Do not attemt to shift your burden of proof.

      Please provide verifiable evidence that your god exists.

      March 8, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Chad

      what do you mean by "verifiable evidence", can you provide an example?

      Atheists HATE that question.. they like to say "you have no verifiable evidence" without actually defining what "verifiable evidence" actually is.

      certainly seems reasonable to ask someone to define what type of evidence they are looking for.

      right? why so reluctant to actually state what you require? 😉

      March 8, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Tim

      Chad
      By "verifiable evidence" could I suggest data from some scientific experiment that could be designed to prove God's existence? That, or some evidence that could only point to God's existence, and I don't mean anything that simply doesn't have an explanation yet. Such things could just as easily be "evidence" for the existence of any god, or some other speculation. Is there anything that could only be evidence for God?

      March 8, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • Chad

      "scientific experiment that could be designed to prove God's existence"
      =>how is a scientific experiment going to demonstrate the existence of the supernatural?
      that's impossible by definition, right?
      That's the big criticism of the multi-verse theory of the origin of our universe, that it is impossible to demonstrate scientifically.

      ======
      As for evidence, see above post.

      March 8, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "Now I don't know what stopped Jesus Christ from turning every other stone into bread.
      And I don't remember hearing how Moses reacted when the innocent first born sons lay dead.
      Well I guess God was a lot more demonstrative back when He flamboyantly parted the seas."
      – Brett Gurewitz

      March 8, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • Chad

      Paul Davies criticism of the multi-verse:

      For a start, how is the existence of the other universes to be tested? To be sure, all cosmologists accept that there are some regions of the universe that lie beyond the reach of our telescopes, but somewhere on the slippery slope between that and the idea that there are an infinite number of universes, credibility reaches a limit. As one slips down that slope, more and more must be accepted on faith, and less and less is open to scientific verification. Extreme multiverse explanations are therefore reminiscent of theological discussions. Indeed, invoking an infinity of unseen universes to explain the unusual features of the one we do see is just as ad hoc as invoking an unseen Creator. The multiverse theory may be dressed up in scientific language, but in essence it requires the same leap of faith.

      — Paul Davies, A Brief History of the Multiverse

      March 8, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Because, Chad, you can pick on any word in a person's statement and keep asking for definitions to infinity. The time to ask for definitions is when you can point to a clear area of dispute where you suspect there is a difference in definition. If you suspect that, lay out the suspected difference (best as two or more definitions) and ask for verification. Otherwise you are just playing games on the mistaken assumption that your role is to educate others you think are less wise and knowledgable than yourself. And that's the best case scenario. What it looks like to most people is a blatant effort to avoid answering questions yourself.

      March 8, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Chad

      "Now I don't know what stopped Jesus Christ from turning every other stone into bread.

      Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" Matthew 4

      regarding flamboyant, hard to get more "flamboyant" than raising someone from the dead on the third day.. right?

      March 8, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • Chad

      @saraswati,
      do you think it is a reasonable request to ask for "empirical evidence" of the existence of the God of Israel?

      answer that question..

      March 8, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • Science

      Chad are you the generated ghost this new device has created ?

      NO god of Israel required

      Engineering 'Ghost' Objects: Breakthrough in Scattering Illusion

      Feb. 19, 2013 — A team at the NUS Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering led by Dr Qiu Cheng-Wei has come out with an optical device to "engineer" ghosts.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130219090643.htm

      Peace

      March 8, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, If there were a god, wouldn't you want to seek evidence of it, not just the one you have chosen to believe in? You still have yet to post any evidence for your god, any evidence disproving the thousands of other gods, or your reasons for choosing the god you did. You claim to be a truth-seeker but always claim your god exists and is the only god when you have no evidence for any of that. All your claims in favor of your god also apply to the others, so as was mentioned yesterday and many times before that – if you claim that your god exists because it can't be disproved then by that same logic all the other gods must exist and yet you deny them.

      March 8, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Chad, I think it is reasonable for people to ask for evidence in a discussion in which the two sides disagree, yes. And before you jump all over who has to provide evidence of what, think very carefully back over the multiple times I've defended your unpopular position regarding budern of proof.

      March 8, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
    • Tim

      Chad
      Boy, if I had a dime for every time you've cut-and-pasted the same old fallacies.

      "no historical detail in the bible has ever been proved to be incorrect" Perhaps, in the strictest sense that suggests that none of the Greek myths have every been "disproved" either, but that hasn't stopped people from realizing that they're ridiculous anyway. I do wonder, however, if there actually is a "high place" where the devil could have taken Jesus where he could have seen all the world's empires, spread out over the globe as they are. By the way, have you ever wondered who "witnessed" this interaction between Jesus and the devil? Did anybody, or did they just take Jesus' word on it?

      The historicity of Jesus of Nazareth may be accepted by the majority of historians, but so is the historicity of Davy Crockett. Yet, few historians would mistake Jesus with the miracle-working demigod known as the Christ just like few historians actually think that Crockett wrestled bears. A great many actual historical figures have tall tales attached to their names. There's nothing remarkable about that.

      You cannot seriously be arguing that there is only one possible explanation of "the empty tomb"! Perhaps the simplest is that there was no tomb. The crucified bodies of criminals were usually left to the animals to devour, after all. It could also just be pure fiction, regardless of what Craig says. Had the Roman authorities been so concerned that the disappearance of Jesus' body would cause trouble wouldn't there have been a manhunt for his disciples after the disappearance? Simpler still, wouldn't they have just chopped up Jesus' body in front of everyone, stuck his head on a pole, and thus eliminated any speculation that he survived in any way? The whole story is just so convoluted that it amazes me that anyone takes it seriously.

      Perhaps people believed that they had met a resurrected Jesus for the same reasons why people swear to have spotted Elvis and dozens of other famous people after they have died. People go to their deaths for all kinds of beliefs, or don't you remember suicide bombers and kamikazes?

      March 8, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
    • Chad

      @Chad "do you think it is a reasonable request to ask for "empirical evidence" of the existence of the God of Israel?"

      @Saraswati "I think it is reasonable for people to ask for evidence in a discussion in which the two sides disagree, yes. "

      @Chad "the question is "empirical evidence"
      do you feel that "empirical evidence" is a valid request?

      ========
      @saraswait "think very carefully back over the multiple times I've defended your unpopular position regarding budern of proof."
      @chad "I do appreciate you chiming in on that, thank you.

      March 8, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
    • Tim

      Chad
      So, you are calling the "supernatural" that which cannot be demonstrated scientifically? How convenient. Problem is, comic books are full of things that can't be proven scientifically either, but few people happen to take these things as seriously as religious beliefs. That's the only difference.

      Your post above is no evidence at all. I've seen that demonstrated here a dozen times before.

      March 8, 2013 at 5:36 pm |
    • Chad

      @Tim "So, you are calling the "supernatural" that which cannot be demonstrated scientifically? How convenient. "

      =>um...
      that's the definition... you werent aware of that?

      supernatural (non-natural): (of a manifestation or event) Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature..

      naturalExisting in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind.

      March 8, 2013 at 7:31 pm |
    • Science

      Chad non casual agent RELIGIOUS BS !

      Peace

      Going to be standard post for Chad/Rachel

      March 8, 2013 at 7:43 pm |
    • Science

      POKIE POKIE CHAD or

      CHA CHA CHA

      Peace

      March 8, 2013 at 7:47 pm |
    • Tim

      Chad
      You do understand that, when the definition says "Attributed", it reaffirms the point that the supernatural realm is purely speculation, completely opposite to the scientific realm. It amazes me that so many people place their trust in pure speculation rather than what can be proved. I wonder, do you do this with everything in life, like how you invest your retirement funds? Would that be wise?

      March 9, 2013 at 12:57 am |
    • Science

      Tim

      That might be to much logic for Chad,

      Peace

      March 9, 2013 at 4:20 am |
    • Tim

      Science
      `Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.
      Hitchhiker's Guide of the Galaxy
      by Douglas Adams
      🙂

      March 9, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
  10. His panic

    They're in a total state of Panic!

    March 7, 2013 at 10:54 pm |
    • Salero21

      😀 😀

      March 7, 2013 at 10:57 pm |
    • Quest ion

      Who are they in hell? 😦 Why are they in such a state of panic? Does panic spread? Is panic contagious? Are you sure is panic? What if?

      March 8, 2013 at 12:16 am |
  11. Salero21

    Calm down Shakira use grease to get your head out of the sand. What happened is that your head is bigger than your neck of course, that's why is stuck in the sand.

    March 7, 2013 at 10:49 pm |
    • Quest ion

      Who in hell is Shakira?

      March 7, 2013 at 10:50 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Salero, that is the stupidest line. I have no idea who Shakira is, but she could be brain-dead and still be smarter than you.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:51 pm |
    • Salero21

      Tom tom the Dumber's son,

      You are dumber than Shakira.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:56 pm |
    • ¿¿lol

      Hmm.. maybe Sauced4Him is talking about Akira.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:56 pm |
    • Quest ion

      How in the world anyone get their head stuck in the sand like that?

      March 7, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Salero, you fvcktard, get a clue. Your line about Akira makes no sense at all. You're a needle-dick.

      March 7, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
    • Quest ion

      Whose son is the piper? Who is Shakira? Is she the dancer from Brazil? I think she looks grrrreat!

      March 8, 2013 at 12:19 am |
    • Quest ion

      What kind of grease does he/she needs? How big is her/his head?

      March 8, 2013 at 12:26 am |
    • .

      Oh, look, the village idiot is back with more pithy sayings...maybe Shakira can borrow some of the grease you use to shove the dildo up your ass with, butter cookie. What a moron you are.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:41 am |
    • His panic

      @ Question,

      Shakira the great is not from Brazil.

      March 8, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
  12. Austin

    @Bob "Austin, stop dodging, coward. Respond directly for a change, or I'll just yank you back to the question again. Here it is:

    How is killing and/or burning another creature (a "sacrifice") an appropriate response after a moral error or "sin"? Why would an omnipotent creature, a "god", need you to do any such thing? Pretty much all the premises and guidances of your disgusting religion in such matters are absurd, unwarranted, and stupid.

    Do the world a favor and get over your harmful and cruel Christian supersticions already."
    q
    Bob, Right now, if you put your faith in Christ and forgiveness, you automatically Go to heaven. If yo don't, you don't go to heaven and God didn't even judge you. You rejected atonement. He didn't judge you or punish you. you die without atonement, and your God is Satan, your father the devil, and you chose hell. you are spiritual and you choose your God. Satan is the demonic god of this world, and the real God is in righteous heaven.

    So your question is about why did God creat a dungeon in the earth for Satans posse of fallen angels? well some of them aren't as. Smart as Satan and they would possess the people and just kill people, and they would be uncontrollable. God created earth for mankind, and angels had already fallen before man was created. Jesus being creator knew he would atone for sin, as man would need God. Satan knew he was eternal and knew he had dominion on earth, meaning he is like God, he has powers. And God wants fellowship, and a pop ululated kingdom of people who live him.

    He atoned for sin, and prepares heaven for us, yet some people reject God and worship the god of this world Satan. There is only one destiny for those who choose to honor God and receive forgiveness. Heaven is the the eternal sanctified and glorified home with Godmwhere there is no sin or fallen flesh.

    But if you reject God you choose to dwell withnsatan, who hates you and torments you. god doesn't do it at all, and he has provided a pathway to heaven. for God, it is all about glory and atonement and eternal righteousness. He fixed the problem and took all responsibility. Unfortunately, even after hearing the truth and good news,, men hate God, and worship the God of this world, the devil, and choose to deny heaven
    They deny themselves spiritual life.....the most sad and suicidal stubborn evil imaginable. Because they hate all that is love and good, who is God. You have been justified. There is no judgment when you die, you go to whoever you worship. You are free.

    March 7, 2013 at 10:28 pm |
    • Harmony

      One glaring thing wrong with your whole spiel. Atheists do not reject God, they don't believe in ANY gods. They also don't beleve is Satan, therefore, it doesn't exist for them. Don't you GET THAT YET??? Damn, you sound unbalanced. If this is what belief does to a person, makes their IQ drop about a hundred points....

      March 7, 2013 at 10:37 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      God, to me, represents pure evil, so I choose good, instead of god's evil. God is evil because of his creation of eternal torture and his allowing it to exist at all. God is evil because he could love everyone and find a way to convince everyone of his love, rather than only loving those who commit certain acts and say certain words. God is evil because he judges people according to his own standard that no two believers agree on. God is evil because he allows pain and distress when he could alleviate it. God is evil because if we attributed his same deeds to another character instead of god, we'd all recognize him as pure evil. And I don't think just because god does evil, that makes it good, somehow.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:41 pm |
    • Austin

      Not believing in God, is a form of self worship....worship of anything other than God falls under the religion of this world, which is satan worship. Your spirit follows a satanic vice called pride.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:43 pm |
    • Austin

      Moby, you are playing the victim.

      Are you free?
      Is the truth available? Are you allowed to choose right?

      March 7, 2013 at 10:45 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      LOL!! Not believing in god doesn't mean that I worship myself. How ridiculous.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:46 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      No, I'm not playing the victim because I'm not a victim. You seem to be, by choice, but that's your decision.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • Austin

      Austin
      Moby, all spirits are eternal. God was so furious with the fallen angels that they received a stiff punishment. You are free, and he hates it that people choose death and sin over life and eternal life. He made it simple and atoned for your flesh. He doesn't hate you. Why do you say he represents evil , when he atoned for all life and it didn't turn out perfect? Is life so bad that you hate God? do you hate
      God simply because of the idea of hell? That means you hate hell.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:54 pm |
    • Austin

      I should not say you hate god if you dont believe butnsayingnhe represents evil kind of like hating

      March 7, 2013 at 10:56 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      No. Just because I think the character of Santa is friendly does not mean that I "like him." He's fictional so I don't have any particular feelings about him

      March 7, 2013 at 11:00 pm |
    • Bob

      Austin, you remain a coward. Read the actual question that I asked again, and try for a change to respond to what you are being asked instead of making more slippery attempts to change the subject.

      Respond directly for a change, or I'll just yank you back to the question again. Here it is:

      How is killing and/or burning another creature (a "sacrifice") an appropriate response after a moral error or "sin"? Why would an omnipotent creature, a "god", need you to do any such thing? Pretty much all the premises and guidances of your disgusting religion in such matters are absurd, unwarranted, and stupid.

      Do the world a favor and get over your harmful and cruel Christian superstitions already. Their time is long past, and really never should have been.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      March 7, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
    • Austin

      Because God told Adam that "the day you eat of it you shall surely die" and he meant physically and spiritually. Adam ate and God had mercy. Communion with a holy God was broken and Adam was in a continual state of serperation from the holy God. Instead of Adam dying, while Adam was hiding ashamed and naked, God had pity and mercy. And animal was killed for skin tunics. This was a subst.tutionary death.

      God interviened in Adams fallen state by administering the sacrifices to keep a constant reminder Sin, otherwise the fallen mind would drift farther and farther away into disparity. that is why it was repeated. And to establish communion through the ages, God continually interveined with Men, making them prophets whom he spoke with. The plan was underway for the messiah.n. god was pleased with a repentant heart, moreso than a dead animal, but the blood represented mercy, and the fact that all our lives were spared and allowed to continue even as fallen and helpless sinners.

      What is you problem with Gods way of interveiniing, and continuing a ceremony of atonement, with the serious lifeblood scapegoat. Man is Gods focal point of creation. He has interveined in you life in a loving way.

      March 7, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
    • Austin

      Bob, put the animals aside, and think about how the Lamb of God has died, and risen and the victory is won.

      why do we still receive the communion, the bread and the blood? It is called communion. We remember the blood and the crucified flesh. The old testament sacrifices were foreshadowing the Christ, who was crucified on Passover , the unleavened bread was the festival the next day, then first fruits (1400 bc consecration of Moses for these festivals) whennchristnwas resurrected, firstfruitnof the harvest of the spiritual seed, then he ascended on feast of weeks.

      The sacrifices were prophecies, and represented communion and the forgiveness of sin. They represented a loving God, who's heart is broken by sin. sin is so evil, that it murdered God. The wages of sin are death. But the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ.

      March 7, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
    • breathe deep

      Good evening Austin, you may not remember me from a couple nights ago as I see you've been busy here, so I'm going to assume that you didn't see my last posting or the email telling you had another posting, instead of just assuming that you didn't answer because you didn't have an answer. So I will bring this up again.

      Why did my son need to be cleansed of the sin of being conceived by being baptized?

      March 7, 2013 at 11:56 pm |
    • Austin

      I have never heard of the sin of being conceived. Might make sense if your son had never sinned, but of course this sin refers to breaking a rule, which happens because we are too selfish and weak to obey them all. Apparently, if we were sinless, we would never say no to our parents. Did jesus disobey Jesus or lie to her? No

      There is an age of innocence where a young child does not understand language yet, in the womb and thereafter, where God would not judge the baby as a sinner. Once a child knows what no means, a lies or is deliberately disobedient, deceptive, or selfish, we start calling this an act of sin.

      So since children are born with a sin mature, we are separated from
      God, because once sin becomes a choice, we are responsible confess sin before God and ask forgiveness. Once you do this, you are baptized by the holy spirit. This is salvation. Now that you have the holy spirit, you have an intercessor who helps you pray to the father by the power and name of the resurrected Son, Jesus

      I had not checked my email.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:26 am |
    • Austin

      Jesus did not disobey or lie to Marymso we know that the effects of sin influence children as theyn

      March 8, 2013 at 12:34 am |
    • breathe deep

      That's ok, that's why I didn't run out of the gate accusing you of all kinds of things.

      Since my son had not yet reached the age of being able to sin against anybody, other than gravity, I would have to ask what you mean by "Did jesus disobey Jesus or lie to her?". was this a typo?

      March 8, 2013 at 12:35 am |
    • breathe deep

      First off, who is this Marysmo? Is that the alter super ego of machismo?

      If your offering Marysmo as jesus' mother: then are you seriously suggesting that such a 3-16 year old jesus never lied to his mother of father? Is that why there is no record of him talking before the age of 18?

      But back to my original point, What you are saying is that my son needed to be baptized because of the future sins he is undoubtably going to make?

      March 8, 2013 at 12:46 am |
    • Austin

      Yes
      A typo did he disobey Mary? I am demonstrating what the mind would have been like if it had not inherited sin . Who knows what we would see and understand if we used more than ten percent of our brain.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:48 am |
    • Austin

      No he didn't, there is an age of innocence.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:50 am |
    • Austin

      At some point you both should ask forgiveness and receive the baptism. Any time your want to. Or he wants to.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:55 am |
    • .

      Well, this is progress, o guess. Austin is the first person to say children are not born with the stain of sin. Good. The first one I've ever seen to have stated it thusly.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:56 am |
    • Austin

      Well it comes down to fair judgment. I believe that it is in the blood, and genetic. But there is innocence in childhood, where a child is not held responsible until their mind is developed. For example, in the news, there were preschoolers having oral se.x. This is the sinful nature, despite the fact that the child had seen a bad example , and not understood the seriousness, his mind is effected by the temptation of sin. This is an error.

      March 8, 2013 at 1:04 am |
    • Austin

      Should they start se.x Ed in preschool?

      March 8, 2013 at 1:06 am |
    • breathe deep

      Yes, I agree, that is what you are demonstrating, but what you are not addressing is whether a child jesus (now remember he's still jesus) would have NEVER told a single lie ever to his mother of father. Ever. And that meaning that you claim your soul on it. Your EVER lasting soul. On the other hand you are saying that jesus was born with sin.

      March 8, 2013 at 2:01 am |
    • breathe deep

      "No he didn't, there is an age of innocence."

      I'll assume your talking about my original point. Then what was there such a rush to get him to that fountain?

      March 8, 2013 at 2:03 am |
    • breathe deep

      We've both already recieved it but thank you. It's been a while since I've had a conversation with a religious person that was willing to stick it out.

      I don't know about anybody else but that's always why I played 'doctor' in preschool. I would easily be able to call that s.e.x. ed in preschool.

      March 8, 2013 at 2:16 am |
    • Austin

      Breathe deep, Jesus was the spirit of god in the flesh, and he was not born with sin and he never lied or disobeyed Mary. Supernatural. He did not have a carnal father. He did not have the curse of sin. As a child, he seperated himself from Mary as he communed Wyeth th holy spirit, Mary was no authority to the boy .

      March 8, 2013 at 10:05 am |
    • .

      How about Jesus making clay sparrows on the Sabbath and bringing them to life, fully knowing it was wrong? But of course you'll have an excuse such as, "he didn't know it was wrong". But then you will hold that same standard to pre-schoolers? Give me a break.

      March 8, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • Austin

      Because the sabbath was made for man, and Jesus was the Lord of the sabbath. Thats only like one of the main stories in the bible, was how the pharasees were trying to trick Jesus just so they could kill him.

      Which you just repeated verbaitum. That doesnt impress the Lord very much.

      March 8, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
  13. John

    As a courtesy to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and to help science figure it out, I'm going to list the sources of the:

    1) Big Bang: God
    2) Life: God
    3) Species: God

    Carry on...

    March 7, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Any evidence to back up your claim?

      March 7, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
    • John

      God's words, and science's lack of them.

      March 7, 2013 at 6:42 pm |
    • Ron

      "1) Big Bang: God"

      January 2013 The scientific world is abuzz with news of the ratification of the existence of the subatomic particle called the Higgs boson – or more colloquially, the 'God particle.' This subatomic particle's existence – which was verified recently (with virtually near certainty) by experiments at the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland – lends credence to several long-standing physical theories such as the so-called Standard Model and the Big Bang Theory.

      The nickname God particle is ironic for two reasons. First, generally, the nuclear physicists who deal with these matters – postulating the fundamental physical laws of the universe and then setting about to either verify or refute them – tend not to be regular church-goers. While there are some highly prominent scientists who balance personal, religious beliefs with professional, scientific quests, most probably go along with the thoughts of the world-famous physicist, Stephen Hawking.

      "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God."

      So, it is a bit ironic that physics' most famous quest has resulted in the discovery of the 'God particle.' Most physicists are quite comfortable having their names associated with famous – even if dead – humans like Newton, Einstein or the afore-mentioned Hawking. One will find few, if any, attributions to deities in the objects that physicists discover and name or the theories they propose.

      Second, and more importantly, the discovery that the God particle really exists does not – as the name suggests – imply that God played some role in the creation of the universe. In fact, quite the opposite.

      March 7, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Science doesn't require the word of an invisible being. If you want to remain ignorant, be my guest. I choose to rely on facts and reason, not religious blindness.

      If it were up to people like you, we'd still be dying of smallpox and thinking the sun revolved around the earth.

      March 7, 2013 at 6:45 pm |
    • clarity

      I wonder if this is John of the desert, lugging around his sackcloth full of triangles.

      March 7, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      *snerk*

      March 7, 2013 at 7:04 pm |
    • bostontola

      John,
      Do you agree with:
      4) Evolution: God
      ?

      March 7, 2013 at 7:16 pm |
    • John

      Yawn... not one of you have posted a SOURCE for any of those three items.

      The source of all three, is God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that sent Jesus to die for the sins of others.

      Once you know... you can't be convinced otherwise.

      March 7, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
    • John

      B, God is in his 7th creation period of time where he's resting... from making an entire universe. He did say that he knows people in the womb, so he is still active at some level, much like people on their day off. What ever God wants to do, is fine with me.

      March 7, 2013 at 7:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You don't "know" anything of the sort, John. Just stop lying about it. You believe. So what? I don't. Do you think scientists are going to stop looking for answers to questions because you say "therefore god"?

      Idiot.

      March 7, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Posts by 'John' contain both the Argument from Igorance fallacy and the Willed Igorance fallacy.

      http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      March 7, 2013 at 7:33 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Posts by 'John' contain both the Argument from Ignorance fallacy and the Willed Ignorance fallacy.

      http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      March 7, 2013 at 7:33 pm |
    • John

      Tom, what it says in the bible is the truth. If you're interested, Jesus died for your sins too...

      March 7, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @John

      Your ignorance is making satan cry.

      March 7, 2013 at 7:38 pm |
    • bostontola

      John,
      If you agree that evolution, the big bang, etc are real, then we are not far from each other. You believe god is behind it. I don't, but that is a small difference compared to people who deny evolution and other directly observable phenomena.

      March 7, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
    • .

      "Yawn... not one of you have posted a SOURCE for any of those three items."

      In other words John is to lazy to actually do any research because he knows it will contradict with what he has said.

      March 7, 2013 at 7:42 pm |
    • frank

      . . and every time Satan cries, a thousand puppies die. 😦

      March 7, 2013 at 7:42 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Frank

      Noes!!!! Damn you satan! You're such a meany!

      March 7, 2013 at 7:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If people like you, John, weren't so ridiculous and off-putting, not to mention ignorant, I might have more interest in the subject. People like you, Chad/Rachel, Gopher, and the rest just make me feel ill. I want nothing to do with you or people who think as you do.

      March 7, 2013 at 7:56 pm |
    • Azazel

      What does demonic oppression feel like?

      March 7, 2013 at 8:01 pm |
    • John

      Tom, who are you rooting for, who are you defending? Science claims no source for any of those three. No one cares, other than when God is mentioned, then they/you care and try to defend your god called "nothing". It's because you reject God, and reject what he wants, but nothing won't save you... 'cuz it's not there.

      March 7, 2013 at 8:08 pm |
    • John

      Ron, you're implying that the smallest particle science can dream up, is God. No it is not. God is not his creation. And if you check, you will find that the guy that thought up that particle, thought of it as the Godd*mn Particle, but didn't name it because they wouldn't let him... supposidly. God is outside time, he can move right through it, and see it how it will go. He knows your birth to death, all history, for everyone... all thoughts, what you say, what's going on inside your body... all of it. No joke. The bible, what it says in there, it's real... all of it.

      March 7, 2013 at 9:20 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Jeez it's another fred and Chad. Dishonest, throws out assertions like candy during halloween, and completely unwilling to actually discuss anything in an honest manner.

      March 7, 2013 at 9:23 pm |
    • clarity

      I have a sneaky feeling in John's world, the GD particle is sitting right there is that tiny, tiny spot where the triangle is not quite locked; not locked yet anyway.

      March 7, 2013 at 9:38 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      John, Do you need so little evidence when buying insurance or investments, when hiring contractors, or when getting car repairs? If not why are you so uncritical of the bible and religion. You nor anyone else has any proof of any god, so in the absence of any proof – why believe?

      March 7, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
    • John

      ISWT, it's obvious if you believe God, read and study what he said, and understand it. If you don't like God or what he wants, you probably won't understand or eventually know God is there. You are the one that decides how that will end up, it's your choice to seek him out.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:27 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      I don't seek out invisible, undetectable beings who commit such evil acts as were supposedly done by that childish dovchebag in the bible called "god."

      March 7, 2013 at 10:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Pay attention, John. There are wonderful people who believe in God and also know that evolution occurred, is occurring and will continue to occur. There are Christians who read the Bible and believe with their whole being and also know that Adam and Eve didn't exist. There are great, loving, caring, giving people who love God just as much as you do, and still know that scientists are discovering more about the universe every day.

      And then there are fundies like you.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
    • End Religion

      John's right in that you have to believe to believe. It's why religion is dying. More and more easily see the fantasy for what it is. Bye bye, religion. We won't miss ye, or the likes of nut cases such as John.

      March 7, 2013 at 10:56 pm |
    • breathe deep

      It actually fills me with sadness that more people like John do not live around me because they too could rest assuerd that for only $500 they too could have comfort in the knowledge that this rock I'm holding in my hand could save his family from lion attacks in his own home.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:04 am |
    • John

      How can anyone know the truth if they never believe, see, hear, or understand it? You have a bible filled with eye witness accounts, you deny them all if God is active in the account. I'm telling you the truth, he is there. He is more powerful than this entire universe you see around you. It did not slow him down to do it, he is all powerful, beyond your imagination. I can't even explain to you how utterly intense he is. He is not slack, he is fully capable of whatever he wants to do... and he has patience I can't fathom. If you're so sure Adam and Eve never existed, where you said you "know" they didn't, explain to me why there are immortal cancer cells in existence right now... they were immortal too, until they ate from fruit of the tree God told them not to eat from.

      I know God is there, doubt what ever you want... doubt will not save you.... believing will. That's why Jesus told them their faith had made them whole. God would not act until they had faith first... without it... nothing.

      March 8, 2013 at 12:42 am |
    • End Religion

      I know FSM is there, doubt what ever you want... doubt will not save you.... believing will. That's why Jesus told them their faith had made them whole. The Spaghedeity would not act until they had faith first... without it... nothing. None can explain why the FSM is an infiniune god while the petty God of Israel can only claim 3 unes. He is une deficient, which is definitely a problem in claiming omnipotence. That god simply can't measure up, in more ways than one if you catch my Noodly drift...

      March 8, 2013 at 7:34 am |
    • sam stone

      john: "blah, blah, fvcking blah"

      carry on

      March 8, 2013 at 8:27 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John, you're one of those ignoramuses that can't grasp the simplest concept. Instead, you read something "scientific" and think you know something when you don't. Here. Read this.
      "HeLa cells, like other cell lines, are termed "immortal" in that they can divide an unlimited number of times in a laboratory cell culture plate as long as fundamental cell survival conditions are met (i.e. being maintained and sustained in a suitable environment). "

      They're not "immortal" because they've lived or will live forever, you ninny. Look up Henrietta Lacks and learn something about what scientific research can do and has done.

      March 8, 2013 at 8:33 am |
  14. Hodor from Winterfell

    is it possible that people created god and not the other way around

    March 7, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • bostontola

      Probable.

      March 7, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Hodor

      Your vocabulary has really improved, what's your secret?

      March 7, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
  15. bostontola

    Why is there so much name calling? A debate is enjoyable on it's own without ad hominem argument.

    March 7, 2013 at 4:44 pm |
  16. Psy Lance

    Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    It's okay, just put the religion down and no one will get hurt...

    March 7, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
  17. RPOF

    RipOff?

    March 7, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
  18. Salero21

    Wow! Atheists had to apologize to of all people Sarah Palin, man oh man that's the pits!

    One more proof of what I've been saying all along in this blog. Atheists are very stupid. A troop of baboons have a whole lot more social graces than a pack of rabid atheists.

    March 7, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • ME II

      @Salero21,
      Feel the love, eh?

      March 7, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Akira

      Since we're generalizing her in such a broad sweeping manner, I suppose saying that Sarah Palin is a representative of Christianity, Sarah Palin is a dimwit, therefore all Christians are dimwits.
      Now, this is an illogical view and quite the fallacious one, but it is exactly what you, Salero21, are doing with your own stupid sweeping generalizations. Instead of singling out David Silverman, which would have been the correct thing to do, you make the leap to say ALL atheists, blah blah blah.
      I suspect you know this, and don't care; but it does render your viewpoint as one without merit, and as such, moot.

      March 7, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Apparently, Salero21 has no life and no job, Akira. No originality or creativity, either.

      March 7, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Thoth

      yeah....at least the moral right never mis-quotes, mis-represents, recontextualizes, or revisions what people say in order to further their agenda....oh, wait....they do it all the time (FOX, Rush, Beck) and are not only unapologetic, but arrogant about it even when called out for it. At least AA has the decency to admit the mistake and correct it. That's the problem with the right; in their eyes, even when they are wrong they are still right.

      March 7, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • lol??

      The left corrupted Palin so they could blame her. Same ol', same ol'.

      March 7, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • midwest rail

      " The left corrupted Palin...." Most unintentionally funny post of the week.

      March 7, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • Akira

      TTTPS, he certainly does lack in creativity; he just echoes the same things his alter-egos tbt, et al, continuously spew...
      I find it amusing that some Christians do not want to be lumped into a stereotypical category, but feel no compunction whatsoever about doing the same thing with any other body of people. There's a word for that, I believe: hypocrite.

      March 7, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • lol??

      Hey morons, it was the left's idea to get women in the workforce to run up the price of housing. Then because of forgetting about procreatin' there was no one to sell em to when they needed the cash.

      March 7, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • Akira

      Lol??, you're quite stuck in 1954, aren't you? Not to mention you are completely and utterly wrong about everything you so (not) eloquently wrote.
      Women have a say in what affects them. Unluckily for you, their wishes supersedes your antiquitated notion of their "place" in society.

      March 7, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • lol??

      The greatest generation died in vain if they weren't Christian.

      March 7, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Akira

      What does that even mean, lol??

      March 7, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • Hodor from Winterfell

      is it possible that god does not exist?

      March 7, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @lol?

      "The greatest generation died in vain if they weren't Christian"

      If I were related to someone buried in a military cemetery with a star of David headstone, I'd be pretty offended by that remark.

      March 7, 2013 at 7:10 pm |
    • lol??

      Well GOP, your feigned enlightenment is in vain and just plain ol' vanity. How do ya think God feels about the star of Moloch??

      March 7, 2013 at 7:59 pm |
    • lol??

      Akira sayz,
      Lol??, you're quite stuck in 1954,......" Did God revise Genesis when I wasn't lookin'?? What's 1954 got to do with the original commands??

      March 7, 2013 at 8:04 pm |
    • midwest rail

      The list gets longer 'n longer. Add religious bigotry to the idiocy espoused by the Cowardly Liar.

      March 7, 2013 at 8:05 pm |
    • Akira

      Akira SAYS, loll??.
      And I'm sorry, did I say 1954? I meant 4. Which means the OT is your Bible. Which means you sanction and cheerlead everything contained, such as forcing a woman to marry her rapist, the dietary restrictions, et al; and the one I suspect you love the most, dashing disobedient children against rocks and beating your slaves.
      Want to live by the OT? Fine. Don't expect anyone else to. And since you're so fire and brimstone OT, Jesus isn't even in your picture, so disregard everything He says, including what you already disregard on a regular basis: judging others.

      March 7, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
    • His panic

      They are in a total state of Panic, they're panicking. They're so panicked because their infallible leader failed again!

      March 7, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
  19. Tax Dollars for Unicorn corrals!!?

    When should we speak up? It's frustrating that it seem's like we aren't allowed to say anything against the powerful Unicorn lobby but it just seems so senseless to spend all that money protecting the rights of Unicorns and creating tax exempt Unicorn clubs and allowing them to force our children to draw Unicorns each year during their unicorn festival, all without ever producing one single shred of evidence that Unicorns ever existed. When should we speak up?

    March 7, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • Just a John

      But some of the old timey fundies up in the hills are still protecting their pet tyrannosaurus that they use for hunting game and heretics. You can see where this could lead, funding every delusion that is not already funded must stop.

      March 7, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • lol??

      You always mock evolutionism so furciferously?? The best science of the day were lookin' for em and that be the bedrock of evolution.
      ".....Unicorns are not found in Greek mythology, but rather in accounts of natural history, for Greek writers of natural history were convinced of the reality of the unicorn, which they located in India, ....." wiki

      March 7, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • Akira

      Sigh. I see that satire and sarcasm still eludes lol??, except when she is attempting to employ it.

      March 7, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      "Greek writers of natural history were convinced of the reality of the unicorn, which they located in India"

      And your Aunt would be your uncle if she had a dick.

      March 7, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Akira

      Thanks Tom, Tom! I will!
      I guess you've guessed by now that I love me some Monty Python.

      March 7, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • lol??

      You're so modern, so with it, so Avant-garde Mass Debater.

      ".............Had Anaximander looked at fossils? Did he study comparative fish and human anatomy? Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing what evidence Anaximander used to support his ideas. His theory bears some resemblance to evolutionary theory, but also seems to have been derived from various Greek myths, ..................."

      http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/ancient.html

      March 7, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • lol??

      Beware the Ides of March in Greece.

      March 7, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • Austin

      lol. What a wasted opportunity. Given that you had to attend school you could've got an education as well.

      March 7, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
  20. lol??

    What's with science always appealing to a court?? R U Nutso?? Where did you come up with the idea of "laws" anyway??

    March 7, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • .

      That should be U R Nutso, because you are insane, lollsaboutwithherheadupherass.

      March 7, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • Hammurabi

      The Code of Hammurabi is a well-preserved Babylonian law code, dating back to about 1772 BC. I, the sixth Babylonian king, Hammurabi, enacted the code, and partial copies exist on a human-sized stone stele and various clay tablets. My Code consists of 282 laws, with scaled punishments, adjusting "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" (lex talionis) as graded depending on social status, of slave versus free man.

      March 7, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Kulet

      Mr. rabi,
      When two ox-carts reach an intersection, who has the right of way?

      March 7, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Just a John

      Kulet
      Size matters, verify by posting to the very carnal HeavenSent.

      March 7, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Akira

      JaJ, HeavenSent is very concerned with all things carnal, isn't she?
      A trend I notice is prevalent here on the blogs.

      March 7, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
    • lol??

      "2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;"

      March 7, 2013 at 9:20 pm |
    • Harmony

      lol??, do you ever have a point, or do you think you actually think you are doing any good with your incessant posting of verses that have nothing to do with anything? Where is any of what verse you posted pertinent to what has been discussed? And who wants to be God's lover anyway? If you are any indication, nobody.

      March 7, 2013 at 9:57 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.