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Christian protesters decry Muslim mob's arson spree following blasphemy charge
Pakistani Christians react after Muslim demonstrators destroyed the homes of members of the Christian community.
March 10th, 2013
10:51 AM ET

Christian protesters decry Muslim mob's arson spree following blasphemy charge

From Nasir Habib, CNN

Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) - Outraged Pakistani Christians took to the streets of Lahore on Sunday, protesting a rash of violence against their community over the weekend.

Demonstrators denounced the burning of more than 100 homes of Christians on Saturday - a spree spurred by allegations that a Christian man made remarks against the Muslim prophet Mohammed.

Some of the hundreds of protesters Sunday threw stones at police, saying the government failed to adequately protect Christians, Lahore senior police official Rai Tahir said.

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity

soundoff (1,072 Responses)
  1. ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

    Teachings of Moses, Jesus and Mohammad, Pbt, were not of religions, but Theen Allah, way of truth absolute, religions are hinduism corruption of truth absolute by hindu swamis,

    March 11, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Austin

      what is pbt?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • STFU

      peanut butter truffles

      March 11, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Pbt

      Psycological beastiality tournement. Who can fvck the most sheep in their head in under a minute... GO!!! Doh! You win...!

      March 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • meifumado

      What is it with you and Hindu's anyways?

      March 11, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
  2. lol??

    Mob power. They got it from Chitown.

    March 11, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
  3. STFU

    mob burned 100+ houses, looted shops run by Christians, but did not kill anyone, thanks God !!! Was Jesus protecting these people from harm?

    March 11, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • Psy Lance

      "Was Jesus protecting these people from harm?"

      Or maybe it was Allah?

      March 11, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
  4. Bostontola

    It never stops. People harming people with different beliefs. Their books tell them that this is wrong but they use their god as the reason. I know, I know, these are misguided people, but the harm remains. When people invent an omnipotent god that is only there to protect them, and requires man to defend the god's honor, this is unavoidable.

    March 11, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • Thomas Paine

      Hear, hear!

      March 11, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      Every hindu denire of truth absolute, always lays it on truth, way of hindu seculars, filthy kenjers, to justify their hindu hinduism illegality by their hindu secular ism, filthy kenjer ism by faith.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • lol??

      "Our fadder, err mudder, who art in washington, hollow is thy name, thy kingdom's bills are due, thy wills be taxed in da states as in DC...........gimme, gimme da daley bread and give us da waivers as we pay off wid cheap dollars, Pleas tempt us with more goodies............"

      March 11, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
  5. Austin

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Tim 3:16

    March 11, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
    • STFU

      ??

      March 11, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
    • clarity

      More Chatty Cathy Paul rubbish.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • Waiter

      The men who wrote the bible were supposedly inspired by god...where is the proof?

      I have read the bible and not one word was put there by any god.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
    • Austin

      @'waiter. I know how that goes. I used to have that same hope.

      John 15:26-27
      New International Version (NIV)
      The Work of the Holy Spirit

      26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Austin
      Quoting the men who wrote the bible is again not evidence that there were any gods involved.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • Emerald

      "John 15:26-27
      New International Version (NIV)
      The Work of the Holy Spirit"

      Everyone knows the story about Jesus and the woman about to be stoned by the mob. This account is only found in John 7:53-8:12. The mob asked Jesus whether they should stone the woman (the punishment required by the Old Testament) or show her mercy. Jesus doesn’t fall for this trap. Jesus allegedly states, let the one who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her. The crowd dissipates out of shame. That story was not originally in the Gospel of John or in any of the Gospels. It was added by later scribes. The story is not found in the oldest and best manuscripts of the Gospel of John. Nor does its writing style comport with the rest of John. Most serious textual critics state that this story should not be considered part of the Bible.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Austin

      @richard cranium, That is why I love that verse. Because the Holy Spirit bears the truth. Not the men who wrote what they were inspired to write. My faith didn't come from them, the Holy spirit bears the truth of Gods word and presence in a persons heart.

      The seal of the Holy Spirit is what sustains faith and salvation

      March 11, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • Austin

      Emerald, you are scaring me for your own sake. I won't even reply. Do you know what the un forgivable sin is?

      March 11, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Austin
      Do you believe in Zeus?

      If not, why not?

      March 11, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Austin

      Rev. 2.13

      New International Version (©1984)
      I know where you live–where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city–where Satan lives

      March 11, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Austin

      The altar of Zeus, the throne of Zeus .

      March 11, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Austin
      Why not just post the bible in its entirety?

      Trying to use the bible to prove or justify the bible is typical religious circular logic.
      Stop with the "scripture" which is the work of men (you do not know if they were inspired by any god as you have not yet established if there is a god). Gods spell is written entirely by men, you have no evidence that any gods were involved in any way.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • Emerald

      "Emerald, you are scaring me for your own sake. I won't even reply. Do you know what the un forgivable sin is?"

      Yup, it's called the scribes the wrote John lied!

      March 11, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • clarity

      "even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city–where Satan lives"

      I think they really meant antipasto – John of Patmos must have had some killer indigestion after whatever substance he was abusing.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Austin
      It was a simple question.
      Do you believe in Zeus?..if not, why not?

      March 11, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • Austin

      I don't know,

      Nephilum, ,men of renown. At the very least, there is a satanic persona that many heave worshipped. There is. A throne of Zeus referred to in the bible

      @ Richard cranium, and Doobs, I evidence, and data, for the supernatural. worst case scenario is a satanic ploy, but I hope the biblical tone to the entire collection, is a spiritual ministry for the holy spirit and or angelic favor.. I thak God that I have found favor with Him, and for the revealing of the truth of Gods word. he is risen, God in flesh. Creator, redeemer.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Terry

      " he is risen, God in flesh. Creator, redeemer."

      All hail Mithra the risen one, the true son of God, your only savior and redeemer!

      March 11, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Austin, There are thousands of gods most of which are not mentioned in the bible. Do you believe in any of them and if not why not?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • Austin

      Oh, wow time to move some snow.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Austins N u t - S h e l l

      I believe the way I do because I was told about Jesus from childhood and was raised in a Christian community where just about everyone I knew was Christian except for those few "to.w.elheads" everyone used to make fun of. I do not have an exstensive education but got through high school okay and even took a few classes at the local community college. I still live with my parents which is not so unusual anymore for a 32 year old, but I have not yet found that "dare to get out of my parents house" sittuation yet and am waiting for the right time. To make myself feel better about my current state of affairs I like to read into my feelings of deja vu or co incidences that happen in my life and attribute them to an all powerful creator deity that made the entire universe but is also very in tune with my feelings and listens to every word in my head. But hey, thats just a normal American teen, am I right?

      March 11, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • bethany

      No word was put there by god. Is that so? And you know this how?
      This is too easy.

      March 12, 2013 at 1:29 am |
    • Hubert

      Bethany

      Are you saying that God reached down from heaven and penned the bible?

      March 12, 2013 at 1:33 am |
    • Austin

      Why would God have to reach down from heaven when He is omnipresent, and His Holy Spirit is here.

      Paraclete comes from the Koine Greek word παράκλητος (paráklētos, that can signify "one who consoles or comforts, one who encourages or uplifts; hence refreshes, and/or one who intercedes on our behalf as an advocate in court").[1] The word for "Paraclete" is passive in form, and etymologically (originally) signified "called to one's side". The active form of the word, parakletor, is not found in the New Testament but is found in Septuagint in Job 16:2 in the plural, and means "comforters", in the saying of Job regarding the "miserable comforters" who failed to rekindle his spirit in his time of distress.[2]

      March 12, 2013 at 1:49 am |
    • Mass Debater

      How convenient. The authors were just used by God like pens right? Strange that all the pen's that claim they wrote God's will down for their people basically said "This is my servant, now do what my servant asks of you! Give him money! Show your faith! Where is my 10%? And make it your finest fruits and your most fatty lambs!" And you guys bought it, hook, line and sinker. And a bunch of you rationalize "Well, it's a small price to pay just to be sure, I mean it's only 10%, right?" because none of you have heard of Pascals wager. I don't know about you but I have only so many 10% so I can't cover all the possible bet's. Religion is just a well organized propaganda machine that is designed to separate you from your money and to get you to thank them while they pick your pocket. They sell false solace, empty comfort and hollow lies. There are many good truths I've found after reading the bible several times, none of them have any origin in the divine. I liked the remembered character Jesus whose accounts were written down decades after he lived but he was likely influenced by a very wise Buddhist philosopher as he traveled with a group from Egypt. He was truly a humanist in his parables, and yet becomes almost a robotic Hebrew in his fulfillment of prophecy which might have something to do with the authors decades later wanting to cement Jesus as the long awaited messiah. All of Christian doctrine rests on the whole of the bible being of divine origin whereas for me I can read it completely devoid of the fantasy and ritual and see it for the basic humanism it teaches, as do all religions to some degree. Without making some huge leaps of faith and stretching the bibles historicity to it's limit it is impossible to claim the bible is free of inaccuracies, therefore it is not of "divine" origin since if it was it would contain no errors. Thus it should be viewed as any other ancient religious writing, study it for a view into the past so we don't repeat the same mistakes, and glean from it the humanity it reveals.

      March 12, 2013 at 3:32 am |
    • bethany

      Geniuses at work. You are probably right Hubie. God, my god, the one true god, spoke and nothingness obeyed him and the sky show you see every clear night is his handiwork. Obviously the poor guy couldn't possibly ensure that men would write what he wanted.

      Are there any intelligent atheists out there? Is there one? Step right up. Your brethren are in desperate need here.

      March 12, 2013 at 3:49 am |
  6. meifumado

    Sorry for the off topic post, but has anyone noticed that the "rebels" that captured and now released the UN peacekeepers kept the UN peacekeepers vehicles and equipment?

    In the videos it shows them being released from a different truck with only what they have on their backs.

    This will cause some issues when these "rebels" attack pro Assad forces from UN vehicles.

    March 11, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Austin

      Al quiada gets free guns too. They are all set up now. Just like Russia in Afghanistan .

      March 11, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • Austin

      Why is it terrorism for some civilian to give money to the Taliban, but Bush admit tingly gave them billions of lost dollars.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:58 am |
    • midwest rail

      al quiada ? Really ? al quiada ??

      March 11, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • STFU

      fumando, you're thinking too much.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
    • STFU

      Good job Austin!!! I was getting tired with your fixation on how Marry got pregnant, keep it that way my friend. And stay away from my brother Mohammad.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
    • Austin

      Ya him and kevobx are brothers.

      I don't want to know how to spell it.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • STFU

      My spell check changed Mary to Marry because I didn't capitalize it.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Austin

      Thats even less common.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • Doobs

      @ Austin

      I don't want to know how to spell it.

      A little education goes a long way. At least you look like you're trying when you take the time to use proper language skills.

      When you can't bother to look up how a word is properly spelled, it shows that you can't be bothered to find out if something is correct or not. Why should we bother listening to you on serious subjects if we know you don't bother checking little things like spelling?

      March 11, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • oops

      "Someone told me it was the word of god, so I didn't have to check carefully what this translation should be"

      –St. Austin of Patmos

      March 11, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • Austin

      It's the thought that counts. I have never made a comment about someone's grammar or spelling, but since I am Christian, i am not allowed the hip culture jive am I?

      Slang in culture? That is the first time I wrote the word. Give me a break.

      Are you having a bad day?

      March 11, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • Doobs

      @ Austin

      Al-Quaeda is not a slang word. I was not commenting on your spelling though. I was commenting on your statement that you "don't want to know how to spell it". How immature.

      Whether you like it or not, language skills count. Research counts. Education counts. Your arguments are weakened when you state that you don't want to check whether you are correct or not.

      Of course, your arguments are weak from the start because they are based on your nightmares and a book of imaginary people and myth, but that's a whole other problem.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • Austin

      He is risen, and you are justified.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • Terry

      "He is risen, and you are justified."

      Mithra has risen and is the true son of God!

      March 11, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • Blasphemers - bow to the one king!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVkoQHCXSK8

      March 11, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • Doobs

      My dough is risen, and now I will make a righteous pepperoni pizza.
      Doobs 11:30-12:30.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • End Religion

      Try our new Ultimate Topping Risen "Chrust" Deep Dish Pizza (TM)!

      A 100% Kosher self-risen, butter and garlic Challah Chrust ™ pizza, smothered in delectable recombinant rennet cheese, faux bacon bits and the tangiest beef you've ever tasted (in this world or the next). Your rabbi will agree we really nailed this recipe – it's better than delivery at half the tithe. Cross those other evil pizzas off your list!

      NOW OPEN: our new wrap-around deck affectionately called The Ark. Sit 2 by 2 and enjoy our food in any weather under a canopy of olive branches.

      March 11, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • Doobs

      @ ER,

      Does the deck have a tent where I can take Dad to sleep it off when he gets drunk?

      March 11, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
  7. Doc Vestibule

    If there's one thing on which Muslims and Christians in the middle east agree it is that the B'Hai should be killed.
    Christians don't like the Bahai because they don't buy into the Trinity and Muslims kill them because they don't say that Mohammed is the only prophet.
    The author of the Kitab i iqan should've known that it is impossible to reconcile the millenia and a half old blood feud between these two Abrahamic sects.
    Pointing out the common foundations of the religions to encourage peace is pointless because of the tribalism engendered by the various sects.

    March 11, 2013 at 10:56 am |
  8. Topher

    Muslim

    We need to talk ...

    March 11, 2013 at 10:26 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      The Muslim is as likely to accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God as you are to accept Muhammad as God's only prophet.

      March 11, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • meifumado

      All religions are bad, Islam is the worst.

      Islams prophet was an illiterate pedophile warlord who plagiarized the three religions of the area in order to invent his own religion to control all the peoples he conquered.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • Topher

      Doc

      I don't even agree Muhammad was A prophet ...

      March 11, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • myweightinwords

      Islams prophet was an illiterate pedophile warlord who plagiarized the three religions of the area in order to invent his own religion to control all the peoples he conquered.

      You DO realize that at the time Mohammed lived it was CUSTOMARY all over the world to marry off girls as young as 13 (or younger in some places).

      We can not judge people of that time by the moral standards of today.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • Akira

      Topher: and Muslims don't accept that Jesus was divine. Stalemate. Hence, the trouble going on right now in Pakistan.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • Which God?

      Topher, you haven't even begun to refute Muslims "proof" against you, and he is using YOUR babble to do so. Stand up boy, don't just say you don't believe, back up your statements with facts. Go on, do it, don't back down, show your "faith" and hit back with you mythical book, proving that mohammad didn't exist, or that allah isn't god. I've got the popcorn popping, and I'm waiting...

      March 11, 2013 at 11:12 am |
    • Topher

      myweightinwords

      One of his wives was like 8 or 9.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Science

      Topher bto many forks .

      Which one to poke with ?

      March 11, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • Topher

      Which God?

      I did below, but I guess you didn't read that far. So here it is again, to the Muslim claim Jesus never said He was God ... "Topher

      After Jesus' arrest, He was brought before the high priest, who asked Him, "' ... are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?' And Jesus said, 'I am: and you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.'" Mark 14:61-62

      March 11, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      filthy Topher, denier of truth absolute Theen Allah, secular s, Mohammad was sugar daddy, Aisha was almost like his daughter, don't know what your are talking.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Have you read the Koran to know that for sure?
      Muslims have docu/mented eye-witness accounts of Miracles performed by their prophet.
      The moon split for him, water gushed from his fingers, food became more abundant in his hands, and similar phenomena were authentically reported and happened in a way that could not be denied.
      According the the Koran, Abdullaah Ibn Salaam who was a Jew as well as Negus (king of Abyssinia) who was a Christian, believed that Mo was The One Prophet.

      The Muslim argument goes something like this:
      God himself says in the Quran that prophet Muhammad is His true prophet and since the Quran has been proven to really be from God, it automatically and logically follows that prophet Muhammad is God's true prophet.

      The Christian Argument goes something like this:
      God Himself says in the New Testament that Jesus Christ is His onyl Son and since the New Testament has been proven to really be from God, it automatically and logically follow that Jesus Christ is God's only Son.

      Both of these arguments are ciccular and rely on one thing: Faith that a given Holy Book is "The Truth".

      March 11, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • Akira

      Aisha was his wife, and it is thought that the marriage was consummated at 9 or 10. Hardly father-daughter behavior, sorry.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      "Have you read the Koran to know that for sure?"

      I've read a little of it, but not all. But that doesn't matter. Muhammad lived between 570-632 AD. The final book of the Bible was written in 96 AD at the latest. Revelation 22 says "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:" ... so if Muhammad is adding to the Bible 500 years after the fact, how can it possibly be true? God says the canon is closed. There won't be anything new.

      "Muslims have docu/mented eye-witness accounts of Miracles performed by their prophet."

      Who reported these things beside Muhammad? He wrote the entire Qur'an.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • meifumado

      I do believe nine years old is young for even then.

      You should see someone for help if you think it's ok to sleep with children.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:40 am |
    • Topher

      meifumado

      "You should see someone for help if you think it's ok to sleep with children."

      Exactly right. Even IF it were a cultural norm your conscience would be screaming at you that it was wrong.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:43 am |
    • Austin

      Gopher, the term messiah prophet, and the virgin birth, we're passed down by Mohammud, But he didn't write the Quran. I don't think there is one chapter written by him if I remember correctly.

      I was wierded out because it kept saying. "we" all the time as the author.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • Austin

      My spell check changed your name Topher because I didn't capitalize it.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • Topher

      Austin

      " ... the term messiah prophet, and the virgin birth, we're passed down by Mohammud, But he didn't write the Quran. I don't think there is one chapter written by him if I remember correctly. "

      I believe their stance is that it was dictated in Arabic to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel.

      "My spell check changed your name Topher because I didn't capitalize it."

      Thanks for the explanation.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • meifumado

      Islams prophet was illiterate so the quran was written by his followers, so pretty much its the same as the bible stuff written after the events by people with an agenda.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • Austin

      All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Tim 3:16
      ....

      March 11, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things..."

      Wasn't that just referring to the Book of Revelation?

      March 11, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • STFU

      it is just amazing people with computers, connected through Internet from all parts of the world, talking of people with no running water, who wrote some books, or who made some claims. Just unbelievable.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • Topher

      ME II

      No. Because Revelation is the endcap, it closes canon.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • Live4Him

      Doc Vestibule : and since the Quran has been proven to really be from God

      How could one falsify this claim (i.e. scientifically)?

      March 11, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • STFU

      there is nothing Godly in Koran, so if Quran was really be from God, judging by content of Koran, God was no more than a gang leader.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • clarity

      "No. Because Revelation is the endcap, it closes canon."

      More like the endcrap. It's pretty obvious that John of Patmos was some kind of substance abuser to come up with that mess.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Austin

      @ live4him

      That's a good point! Get r done.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      "No. Because Revelation is the endcap, it closes canon."

      Based on what exactly? The very next verse seems to reinforce the idea that it's just book of Revelation.
      "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, ..." (Rev 22:19)

      Not to mention that, if as you state it was written no later than 96 AD, then there was no cannon, yet, and no Bible, of which to be an endcap.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • Austin

      He came clothed in robe dipped in blood, and they called His name the word of God. Rev19:13

      March 11, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • clarity

      Evidently old John of Patmos took a dip in something besides his swimming pool.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • Science

      Oh SH_IT they are talking to each other (austin/l4h), here comes the crap !

      March 11, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Live4Him
      Neither Islam nor Christianity can be falsified scientifically becuase they are both religions predicated on faith.
      That's kind of the point.

      The Muslim's faith is no more or less real and true than a Christian's.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Topher : No. Because Revelation is the endcap, it closes canon.

      I think you need to rethink your rebuttal here. Prior to 325 AD, each and every book of the Bible was considered to be a separate book. The canon wasn't fully defined until after then. So, John was clearly stating that no one should add to the book of Revelation – not the Bible (because it wasn't a book then).

      That said, how do we define a devinely inspired work?

      The person must demonstrate that God inpired that person. This is usually one of the following: 1) Jesus chose him as an apostle, 2) was able to perform miracles, 3) was able to foretell future events, etc. Additionally, the book must be factually correct.

      This is where the Koran fails. The Muslims may claim that he performed miracles, but the Koran has a factual error in it – It identifes the Trinity as God, Jesus and Mary. So, how could an omniscient Allah make mistakes? a) He is not all-knowing or b) He is a fictional character.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      And lest we forget – from the Jewish perspective, both Islam and Christianity are Johnny-Come-Lately false religions.
      B'Hai is the only faith that reconciles all of the Abrahamic sects.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Lie4Him. No religious text (or anything else) has been proven to be from a god. If you have said proof please provide (the religious texts themselves obviously are not proof else that would be circular).

      March 11, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @Doc Vestibule : Neither Islam nor Christianity can be falsified scientifically becuase they are both religions predicated on faith.

      You're not thinking very clearly here. Science is not a goal, but a methodology. By looking at the evidence objectively, we can falsify some parts – if they are false. For example, if we could show that Rome never existed, that would falsify a portion of the Bible.

      Likewise, if we identify the members of the Trinity as God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, whereas the Koran identifies the members of the Trinity as God, Jesus and Mary, then this would falsify the claim that Allah is omniscient.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • Topher

      ME II

      Well, first off, it just makes sense that way. Why give us a book that tells us the final days, millenial kingdom and eternity if it were not the last bits of information we need?

      Besides the verses in Revelation, you have Deut. 4:2 ... "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you."

      ... Deut. 12:32 ... "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."

      and Proverbs 30:6 ... "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

      We also have these evidences ...

      1. Genesis bridges eternity past into time/space. Revelation bridges time/space back into eternity.
      2. The old testament canon was closed with "silence". Same since John's Revelation
      3. No longer are there prophets or apostles to give us scripture. God's word "once for all delivered to the saints" is never to be added to, but to be earnestly contended for (Jude 3).
      4. Of all the verses that say not to add to the scriptures, only the one in Revelation gives a punishment for that crime.
      5. The early church made this conclusion and were the ones closest to Christ and His apostles.

      "Not to mention that, if as you state it was written no later than 96 AD, then there was no cannon, yet, and no Bible, of which to be an endcap."

      True, the Bible wasn't compiled into one book yet, but since, as stated above, it was the final book written and what it contained, this is what was been held as the conclusion of canon.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
    • clarity

      L4H: "Likewise, if we identify the members of the Trinity as God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, whereas the Koran identifies the members of the Trinity as God, Jesus and Mary, then this would falsify the claim that Allah is omniscient."

      How so? What part of what you said is still not based on faith?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • Saraswati

      I couldn't give less of a crap if the Quran is wrong (very boring book) but the sections Christians like to trot out regarding the "trinity" are by no means uncontroversial. Certainly all agree Islam rejects the trinity as Christians perceieve it, but when talking about Mary it is not at all clear that this refers to the same historic discussion and most likely does not. There were a lot of Christian sects at the time and we have no idea what the authors were exposed to.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • Topher

      Saraswati

      "There were a lot of Christian sects at the time and we have no idea what the authors were exposed to."

      Which authors?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • OTOH

      Live4Him,
      "if we identify the members of the Trinity as God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit,"

      - Who is "we"?
      - What has been verifiably "identified"?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • Topher

      OTOH

      "What has been verifiably "identified"?"

      The Bible identifies the Trinity as Father, Son, Holy Spirit

      March 11, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Live4Him
      The Trinity was not dogma until the Council of Nicea, 3 centuries after the purported events of teh Bible.
      There are plenty of non-trinitarian Christian sects as well.
      You cannot apply the Scientific method to a supernatural hypothesis.
      If you say "The Trinity is a gestalt of a flesh and blood man, an intangible ghost and an omnipotent enti/ty that lives outside of regular time and space", how are you going to provide a basis of provability for the latter two of the three?
      And be careful of how you tread when it comes to a "house of cards" approach to a Holy Book.
      Remember, the Bible says that bats are birds, which is demonstrably false. In your mind, does that invalidate the entire Bible?
      And once again – The Israelites have the ORIGINAL book of Abraham's God. Christians, Muslims, Mormons etc. just have sequels.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      Topher,

      One of his wives was like 8 or 9.

      And at the time, that was not unheard of. Hell, in some places today it is still done.

      The world was a different place. Life spans were shorter, accidental death, plus death due to disease were far, far more common, and women were considered marriage material much earlier to maximize their child bearing years to ensure that there were enough sons to do the work.

      I'm not saying it was good or right, but it was a different world. One so foreign to us that we can not conceive it. One in which children were "adults" long before we consider them so today.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      "The Trinity was not dogma until the Council of Nicea, 3 centuries after the purported events of teh Bible."

      Not true at all.

      "There are plenty of non-trinitarian Christian sects as well."

      Then they wouldn't be Christian.

      " Remember, the Bible says that bats are birds, which is demonstrably false. In your mind, does that invalidate the entire Bible?"

      Seriously? This again? The Bible does not say bats are birds. The word is "owph" which means "winged creature."

      March 11, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • OTOH

      Topher,
      "The Bible identifies the Trinity as Father, Son, Holy Spirit"

      Notice the "verified" part. Not a single supernatural, other-worldly, fantasy being or scenario from The Bible has been verified.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • Terry

      ""The Bible identifies the Trinity as Father, Son, Holy Spirit""

      No, Mithra was the original trinity and son of God!

      March 11, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • STFU

      @myweightinwords, why do you feel it is your job to defend Mohammad?, why can't magician defend himself?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Topher

      OTOH

      "Notice the "verified" part. Not a single supernatural, other-worldly, fantasy being or scenario from The Bible has been verified."

      The Bible itself is supernatural.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • OTOH

      Live4Him,

      Muslims use the same slippy-slidy rationalizations to justify the "errors" which are alleged about the Quran as you Christians use regarding The Bible. Go ahead and read some of their "refute errors in the Quran" sites (or Google a variation of that phrase).

      March 11, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • clarity

      DocV: "There are plenty of non-trinitarian Christian sects as well."
      Topher: "Then they wouldn't be Christian."

      So now, not only is he differentiating between Xtians and Muslims, not Topher is traversing the splintered paths of Xtianity itself.

      Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth. -Thomas Jefferson

      March 11, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      So Christadelphians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Pentecostals, Mormons, Unitarians, Manichaeists, Doukhobors, etc. aren't Christians? That's not what they say...

      Do you even know the history of your own religion?
      In 325, Roman Emperor Constantine demanded that the Christians settle their internal disagreements and become Christ-like agents who could bring new life into a troubled, beaten-down empire. Led by bishop Athanasius, the Nicene council established the doctrine of the Trinity as orthodoxy and condemned Arius' teaching that Christ was the first creation of God.
      The word "Trinity" is not found in the New Testament, nor is the doctrine explicitly taught there.
      Tertullian introduced the term in the 2nd century – but it did not become offical dogma until 325.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Tommy

      Claiming the cannon is closed is a wise thing to do when you are just making stuff up as you go along. By claiming it is closed you can then say that anybody who comes along after you and makes stuff up is a liar because the cannon was closed in the last book that you made up.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Topher. "The Bible itself is supernatural." Where is the evidence for this?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • ME II

      @Live4Him,
      "By looking at the evidence objectively, we can falsify some parts – if they are false.
      Likewise, if we identify the members of the Trinity as God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, whereas the Koran identifies the members of the Trinity as God, Jesus and Mary, then this would falsify the claim that Allah is omniscient."

      I'm sorry, but how do you "objectively" "identify the members of the Trinity"?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Tim 3:16"

      I love that Christians use this note that was made by Paul to Timothy sometime around 67 AD to prove that the compliation of letters and books put together by the council of Nicea nearly 300 years later is infallible. It's truly mind boggling.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      " So Christadelphians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Pentecostals, Mormons, Unitarians, Manichaeists, Doukhobors, etc. aren't Christians? That's not what they say..."

      I'm not familiar with all of these, but I can tell you Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are NOT Christians. Did you not pay any attention to the Christian position on Mitt Romney last year?

      "Do you even know the history of your own religion?"

      I'm working on it.

      " In 325, Roman Emperor Constantine demanded that the Christians settle their internal disagreements and become Christ-like agents who could bring new life into a troubled, beaten-down empire. Led by bishop Athanasius, the Nicene council established the doctrine of the Trinity as orthodoxy and condemned Arius' teaching that Christ was the first creation of God."

      Yes, the council was put together to dispel disagreements ... mostly false teachings that were starting to creep into the church. And while the doctrine of the Trinity may have become official here, it was already being taught. It wasn't a new idea. The Trinity is in the OT.

      "The word "Trinity" is not found in the New Testament, nor is the doctrine explicitly taught there."

      So what? Neither is "dinosaur" but they are clearly mentioned as well.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Anybody who can worship a Trinity and still maintain that their religion is a monotheism is capable of believing anything – just give them time to rationalize it.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "Did you not pay any attention to the Christian position on Mitt Romney last year?"
      Which position from which one of the myriad Christian religions?
      how do you know whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, oriental Orthodox, As.syrian, Byzantine, Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, Anabaptism, Brethren, Methodist, Pietism, Apostolic, Pentocostal, Charismatic, African Initiated, United, Quakers, Couthcotti.tism, Millerism, British-Isrealism, Latter Day Saints, Mennonite, 7th day Adventism, Kelleyism, Co.oneyism, Shakers, Methernitha, Strigolniki, Yehowism, Christadelphians, Christian Science, doukhobors, Iglesia ni Cristo, Makuya, Molokans, Subbotniks, Ebionism, Martinism, Rosicrucians, Rastafarianism, Santo Daime, or Umbanda is the REAL interpretation of your God's words?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      C'mon. Some of these are just different denominations. But most are unorthodox religions. They don't hold that the Bible is true, thus they are calling God a liar.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      "So what? Neither is "dinosaur" but they are clearly mentioned as well." Where again are they "clearly mentioned"? Are you refering to the "behemoth" and the "leviathan"? If so please consider this me laughing in your uneducated moronic face "Haha ahaha ahahahahaahahaha" Sorry to be so childish about it but that seemed the only reasonable response to such a childish attempt at bible apologetics.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      "Well, first off, it just makes sense that way."
      Personally, I don't think it makes sense any way, but let's look a little closer.

      With all those quotes from Deuteronomy and Proverbs how do you justify the New Testament at all? Shouldn't those quotes invalidate Revelation?

      "1. Genesis bridges eternity past into time/space. Revelation bridges time/space back into eternity."
      And there is no room for additional information? This doesn't mean anything, objectively.

      "2. The old testament canon was closed with 'silence'. Same since John's Revelation"
      "silence" is a subjective judgement, e.g. in Judaism we are still in the "silence" after Malachi.

      "3. No longer are there prophets or apostles to give us scripture."
      According, to whom? Not the Branch Davidians, nor the LDS, nor the Muslims (prior to Mohammed), nor ...

      "4. Of all the verses that say not to add to the scriptures, only the one in Revelation gives a punishment for that crime."
      And what does that mean? Perhaps, if you'd listened to the warnings in Deut., He wouldn't have needed the threat?
      (I realize that makes as little logical sense as using the original's statement of "no more" to validate the sequel's statement of "no more", but turnabout for the goose, yada, yada.)

      "5. The early church made this conclusion and were the ones closest to Christ and His apostles."
      If by "early church", you mean the canon being determined in the 300's AD, then I'd hardly call that close to Jesus and His followers.

      "it was the final book written"
      Really? Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible) is showing Rev. at 60-100 and Epistles of John at 90-110 (although, it does also say "citation needed"). How do you know it was the very last book written for the NT?

      March 11, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • Live4Him

      @clarity : How so? What part of what you said is still not based on faith?

      Everyone functions on some level of faith. You had faith that you would wake up this morning, go to work, etc. So, faith is based upon the available evidence and then projected into the future. The same is true of Christianity. Jesus once said, even if you don't believe in what I'm saying, then believe in the miracles that I'm performing to accept that I'm the Messiah (paraphrased). So, God never requires us to believe blindly, but to follow the evidence courageously. When you do so, then only one possible explanation is left: Jesus is the Son of God, Savior of the World, The Bright Morning Star, etc.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • clarity

      Topher: "They don't hold that the Bible is true,"

      Cop-out. Once again, Xtians railing on other Xtian's beliefs and interpretations.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      " They don't hold that the Bible is true, thus they are calling God a liar."

      Every time he opens his mouth another turd comes rolling out.

      I have studied with at least a dozen of those Doc listed. I have read material from almost all of them. Every single one of them believes the bible to be true, they just don't all agree with your interpretation of it. Or rather, the interpretation you have been schooled in since you didn't come to any of your convictions by yourself but were led there by your parents and others.

      Topher, you do nothing more than make Christians look even worse than they already did before you opened your mouth. Once opened you just confirm the rumors about Christians doing very little research and relying on their blind faith to get past any bump in the thoelogical road to God.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • ME II

      "Although there is much debate as to whether the beliefs of the Apostles were merely articulated and explained in the Trinitarian Creeds,[22] or were corrupted and replaced with new beliefs,[23][24] all scholars recognize that the Creeds themselves were created in reaction to disagreements over the nature of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. "
      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity, not that wiki is a source in itself.)

      March 11, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Lie4Him. What evidence would that be?

      March 11, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      That's where you're wrong, sir.
      They DO hold that the Bible is true – they just interpret it differently than you.
      Are Catholics christians? Are Lutherans Christians?

      Which Bible is the real, true, unadulterated Word of God?
      American Standard Version, American King James Version, Amplified Bible, An American Translation, ArtScroll Tanakh (Old Testament), An American Translation, Berkeley Version, Bible in English, The Bible in Living English, Bishops' Bible, Catholic Public Domain Version, Children's King James Version, Christian Community Bible, English version, Clear Word Bible, Complete Jewish Bible, Contemporary English Version, Concordant Literal Version, A Conservative Version, Coverdale Bible, Darby Bible, Douay-Rheims Bible, Douay-Rheims Bible (Challoner Revision), EasyEnglish Bible, Easy-to-Read Version, English Jubilee 2000 Bible, English Standard Version, Ferrar Fenton Bible, Geneva Bible, God's Word, Good News Bible, Great Bible, Holman Christian Standard Bible, The Inclusive Bible, International Standard Version, Jerusalem Bible, Jewish Publication Society of America Version Tanakh (Old Testament), Judaica Press Tanakh (Old Testament), ia E. Smith Parker Translation, King James 2000 Version, King James Easy Reading Version, King James Version, King James II Version, Knox's Translation of the Vulgate, Lamsa Bible, A Literal Translation of the Bible, Leeser Bible, Tanakh (Old Testament), The Living Bible, The Living Torah and The Living Nach. Tanakh (Old Testament), Matthew's Bible, The Message, Modern King James Version, Modern Language Bible, Moffatt, New Translation, James Murdock's Translation of the Syriac Pesh.itta, New American Bible, New American Standard Bible, New Century Version, New English Bible, New English Translation (NET Bible), New International Reader's Version, New International Version Inclusive Language Edition, New International Version, New Jerusalem Bible, New Jewish Publication Society of America Version. Tanakh (Old Testament), New King James Version, New Life Version, New Living Translation, New Revised Standard Version, New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, Quaker Bible, Recovery Version of the Bible, Revised Version, Revised Standard Version, Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition, Revised English Bible, Rotherham's Emphasized Bible, The Scriptures, Simplified English Bible, The Story Bible, Taverner's Bible, Thomson's Translation, Today's New International Version, Third Millennium Bible, Tyndale Bible, Updated King James Version, A Voice In The Wilderness Holy Scriptures, Webster's Revision, Westminster Bible, The Work of God's Children Illustrated Bible, Wycliffe's Bible (1380), Wycliffe's Bible (1388), Young's Literal Translation....

      If the One True Deity, shaper of The Universe, wishes their words to be transmitted and adhered to, they should have been a bit less ambiguous. Expecting people to select The Truth out of limitless possibilities on faith alone seems a sloppy way to run things – especially if the punishment for a wrong choice is eternal torment.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Awww look, Live4Him has found out how to use an equivocation fallacy.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • My Name is Legion

      Sh.it Topher
      I thought you knew a bunch of the unbelievable crap in your TRUE bible was put in by ME and my minions and those people, even in your own church, that come up to you and punch you in the face for no apparent reason, just can't stand you, probably christians, not my guys'ngals.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Live4Him
      Other than the Bible, what is the evidence we are to follow for Christ's miracles?
      Mary Baker Eddy and Joseph Smith both have reams of docu/mented eye-witness testimony for their miracles, including testimony from skeptics and non-believers.
      Is their evidence solid enough to convince you?

      March 11, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • clarity

      L4H: [ @clarity : How so? What part of what you said is still not based on faith?
      Everyone functions on some level of faith. You had faith that you would wake up this morning, go to work, etc. So, faith is based upon the available evidence and then projected into the future. ]

      What? I don't think my notion of what is expected for the future jives with your notion that you are calling faith. My notion that I will wake up tomorrow is only a guess that it may very well follow the thousands of days before it; but once can also imagine the possibility that many things could prevent that from happening, so I don't attempt to predict such. I can plan what I will do should I wake up again tomorrow, but that doesn't mean I really know what will happen; I can only be ready for it should it happen again.

      L4H: [ "The same is true of Christianity. Jesus once said, even if you don't believe in what I'm saying, then believe in the miracles that I'm performing to accept that I'm the Messiah (paraphrased). So, God never requires us to believe blindly, but to follow the evidence courageously. When you do so, then only one possible explanation is left: Jesus is the Son of God, Savior of the World, The Bright Morning Star, etc." ]

      What evidence? My reply was to your earlier comment:

      L4H: [ "Likewise, if we identify the members of the Trinity as God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, whereas the Koran identifies the members of the Trinity as God, Jesus and Mary, then this would falsify the claim that Allah is omniscient." ]

      So, if both religions are predicated on faith (as DocV initially stated), what do you have OUTSIDE OF FAITH that would be evidence that would allow you to falsify the claim that Allah is omniscient?

      March 11, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • Topher

      ME II

      "Personally, I don't think it makes sense any way, but let's look a little closer."

      Fair enough.

      "With all those quotes from Deuteronomy and Proverbs how do you justify the New Testament at all? Shouldn't those quotes invalidate Revelation?"

      No. Those verses are, in context, referring to everything God has revealed to us.

      "And there is no room for additional information? This doesn't mean anything, objectively."

      Room for it? Sure, I suppose. But God has told us everything we need to know Him and to be saved from what we deserve. What else do we need to know?

      " "silence" is a subjective judgement, e.g. in Judaism we are still in the "silence" after Malachi."

      That is what they believe, yes.

      " According, to whom? Not the Branch Davidians, nor the LDS, nor the Muslims (prior to Mohammed), nor ..."

      Right. But none of them are Christians. They have their own set of beliefs. We're talking about what the Bible says.

      "And what does that mean? Perhaps, if you'd listened to the warnings in Deut., He wouldn't have needed the threat?"

      If we had were good at listening to God, we wouldn't have Branch Davidians, LDS or Muslims.

      " If by "early church", you mean the canon being determined in the 300's AD, then I'd hardly call that close to Jesus and His followers."

      I'd agree with you on that. But just because they weren't sitting in one book doesn't mean the early church before 300 didn't have every book and didn't agree whether they were from God. We know the writers were considering works at the same time as theirs as inspired by God. And that's really the major factor in determining if a work is in the canon.

      " Really? Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible) is showing Rev. at 60-100 and Epistles of John at 90-110 (although, it does also say "citation needed"). How do you know it was the very last book written for the NT?"

      No offense, dude, but if I used wikipedia as a source on this I'd be thrown to the lions. Basically, we can detemine ages for a lot of the books based on what is talked about historically in them. Though for specifics on each book, I'd have to look them up. For instance ... I, II and III John were written between 90-95 AD. Revelation is believed to have been written between 94-96 AD. So it would have been written last. Again, even if we didn't have the historicity of them, it would just make sense that the book of "last things" came last.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      STFU
      @myweightinwords, why do you feel it is your job to defend Mohammad?, why can't magician defend himself?

      I am not defending him. I am pointing out the fact that calling him a ped<bophile is disingenuous. Historically, legal age for marriage for young girls has been as young as 7. You can not judge a person from another culture based on the cultural mores of your own.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • My Name is Legion

      Topher and L4H
      Now I lay me down to sleep
      I pray the Lard my reason and logic to keep
      My brain is washed, my asz is wiped
      Here's hoping I don't die tonight.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Myweightinwords

      Eh, I don't know if that's exactly right. Sure, it was acceptable to marry young in that area at that time, but that still doesn't disqualify him as being a pe.do.phile according to our cultures definition. Would you consider the aztecs to be murderers when the practiced human sacrifice?

      It would be one thing to not judge a person from a different culture if they violate taboo with an act they believe is good (for instance, burping at the dinner table to express they liked the meal), but in this instance, we can still judge Mohammed for being a ped.ophile even if it was acceptable at the time, same reason we judge early christians for defining the rules of human slavery instead of rejecting it.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Science

      My Name is Legion

      Make sure you keep that safe.

      To repost.

      Peace

      March 11, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      "No offense, dude, but if I used wikipedia as a source on this I'd be thrown to the lions."

      That is why I made an effort to qualify it as wiki and uncited wiki, at that, i.e. no illusions. I'm still not sure why you think it was the very last, other than it "making sense," but apparently it's not important.

      I'm still not sure why you choose to accept the admonition against addition from Reveleation and yet ignore the same from Deuteronomy and Proverbs, but it's your religion.

      "If we had were good at listening to God, we wouldn't have Branch Davidians, LDS or Muslims."

      ... or we wouldn't have any religions. (Yes that is illogical, but it just "makes sense" that a truly omniscient being would be aware of it own none-existence.)

      March 11, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • Topher

      ME II

      "I'm still not sure why you think it was the very last, other than it "making sense," but apparently it's not important."

      Did I not give you the dates? I thought I had, but if not, sorry. We know the approximate dates of when the books were written. Revelation dates to the youngest at 94-96 AD. All others written before that.

      March 11, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • Topher Paraphrase Edition

      I'm right, you're wrong, you're dumb and stupid as the day is long...Neener Neener...

      I know you are but what am I...

      I know you are but what am I...

      -insert fingers in ears-

      Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala...I'm not listening...Lalalalalalalalalalalalalala

      March 11, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • meifumado

      @ myweightinwords

      What are you some kind of pedophile apologist?

      your a sick person.

      March 11, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
  9. muslim2012

    The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):

    "Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad".
    It is a Hebrew quotation which means:
    "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
    [The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4

    March 11, 2013 at 9:44 am |
    • hawkeye

      You must really like fairy tales....

      March 11, 2013 at 9:57 am |
    • Sia

      "Do unto others as you would have them do to you"

      THAT is from Jesus Christ, a man that Islam considers a Prophet. Do his words mean nothing to you? It is against God to burn the homes of a religion that you disagree with based on ALLEGATIONS. That compels people to follow Islam out of fear for their lives and property, and Islam claims there is no compulsion to follow it.

      March 11, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • Sense0326

      Jesus' divinity and the existence of your god are equally unlikely fantasies.

      March 11, 2013 at 10:48 am |
    • Topher

      True. There is one God. What's your point?

      March 11, 2013 at 10:49 am |
    • End Religion

      "There is one God. "

      Finally Topher sees the light that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is his Lord and Saviour! Let's celebrate!

      March 11, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Science

      Topher are you really saying that ?

      Then I can ask this are you STUCK in the Ice Age ?

      Evolution and the Ice Age

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130226135241.htm

      Peace

      March 11, 2013 at 11:35 am |
    • Topher

      Science

      Am I really saying there is one God? Yes, of course.

      And what's your point? I know the ice age happened.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:41 am |
    • Science

      topher 338,000 years ago Do you have one TOPHER ?

      All creationists !!!

      Was the bible around back then ?

      Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

      Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

      Peace

      March 11, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • Austin

      When the flood occurred, the volcanoes were going off and there were huge hot air pockets coming out of the earth. I heard, the water temperature got really warm, and a whole bunch of steam filled the sky, which blocked putnthensun and caused it to snow , and snow, and snow, and snow, and snow.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • Topher

      Science

      "338,000 years ago ..."

      Interesting article. But it never explains where they came up with that number. How did they come to it?

      "Was the bible around back then ?"

      No. But neither were humans or Y chromosomes. Nothing existed then.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • Science

      WOW topher

      Really ?

      March 11, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      topher is in denial. If you engage him in a discussion you will easily see how delusional he really is. He will never grasp reality. He lives in the virtual bible world, which is similar to never never land. Fictional place where realities rules are not followed. Fiction is like that.

      March 11, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • Science

      RC I am wondering if Topher can read .

      March 11, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Topher

      Science

      You gonna answer that dating question?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • Science

      Wow gold topher you have any find the spacerock you might find the fairy

      Where Does All Earth's Gold Come From? Precious Metals the Result of Meteorite Bombardment, Rock Analysis Finds

      Sep. 9, 2011 — Ultra high precision analyses of some of the oldest rock samples on Earth by researchers at the University of Bristol provides clear evidence that the planet's accessible reserves of precious metals are the result of a bombardment of meteorites more than 200 million years after Earth was formed.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110907132044.htm

      March 11, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Topher

      Science

      So the way you defend your stance is to ignore the question and post another link to another story? Wow.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Nothing existed then."

      Got proof of that?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • Science

      RC sort of like Chad/l4h

      Fossil records

      March 11, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Topher

      Science

      And what dating methods were used on those fossils to determine they were that old?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • Science

      look it up topher it is all out there .

      Peace

      A cool way to date sh_it is urainum lead dating a science.

      March 11, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Science

      By the way topher got to go not really
      Peace

      March 11, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Topher

      Science

      Dude, you are the one making the claim and posting articles ... all I'm asking is why do you believe it? What dating methods were used?

      March 11, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Science

      Just for the hell of it topher

      The generated ghost may now go poof...... the magic dragon says so.

      Engineering 'Ghost' Objects: Breakthrough in Scattering Illusion

      Feb. 19, 2013 — A team at the NUS Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering led by Dr Qiu Cheng-Wei has come out with an optical device to "engineer" ghosts.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130219090643.htm

      Peace

      Have a swell day

      Non casual agent religious bs

      March 11, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Topher. You have it backwards. Without evidence you claim a god and that that god created everything we see. When scientific method and results disprove large parts of the only "proof" of that in the supposed authoritative texts (even though hundreds of different versions of that exist and the texts contain internal contradictions) then you make these creationist denial arguments that the dating must be wrong with no explanation of why. Science uses many dating techniques.
      You need to provide evidence of your extraordinary claims.

      March 11, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • End Religion

      "Nothing existed then."

      Shouldn't Topher soon be dragging out, "were you there?"
      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/How_do_you_know%3F_Were_you_there%3F

      March 11, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
  10. muslim2012

    Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God

    The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.

    "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
    [The Bible, Acts 2:22

    March 11, 2013 at 9:41 am |
    • Topher

      Which translation are you using?

      March 11, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • End Religion

      The translation he's using is correct. Any other is not.

      March 11, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • Topher

      Nevermind. I figured it out. Anyway, I agree with you Jesus was a prophet ... but He was also more than that.

      March 11, 2013 at 10:53 am |
    • End Religion

      He was not a prophet. He was less than that.

      March 11, 2013 at 10:55 am |
    • frank

      Yeah – he was evidently great at slicing bread. They misinterpreted it though and said that he multiplied it.

      March 11, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Austin

      Ok, were the other prophets born of a virgin? Gabriel is not the reason Mary was pregnant, nothing against Gabriel but the other prophets you believe in prophecied about a messiah. Why take acts, written by Luke, and throw out what the book of acts is trying to say, at the rest of the. New testament. Acts, is about the sovereign will of God in laying the foundation of the church. Christ was crucified on Passover, history. Risen on first fruits, and ascended on feast of weeks.

      What reason is there really, to believe in a sovereign virgin birth, sovereign death onassover, and then deny what Jesus half brother Jude writes, and the disciples and the apostle? Then you turn around and cherry pick a verse about His prophet status.

      Let us make men in our image. Who is us and our?

      Purpose of Writing: The Book of Acts was written to provide a history of the early church. The emphasis of the book is the importance of the day of Pentecost and being empowered to be effective witnesses for Jesus Christ. Acts records the apostles being Christ's witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the rest of the surrounding world. The book sheds light on the gift of the Holy Spirit, who empowers, guides, teaches, and serves as our Counselor. Reading the book of Acts, we are enlightened and encouraged by the many miracles that were being performed during this time by the disciples Peter, John, and Paul. The book of Acts emphasizes the importance of obedience to God’s Word and the transformation that occurs as a result of knowing Christ. There are also many references to those that rejected the truth that the disciples preached about the Lord Jesus Christ. The lust for power, greed, and many other vices of the devil are evidenced in the book of Acts.

      Key Verses: Acts 1:8: "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

      Acts 2:4: "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."

      Acts 4:12: "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

      Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Acts.html#ixzz2NFEXguqy

      March 11, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • Austin

      On Passover.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:24 am |
  11. muslim2012

    Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity

    Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

    "And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

    And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
    [The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

    Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).

    March 11, 2013 at 9:40 am |
    • Topher

      muslim2012

      "Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity"

      Not true at all.

      "On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments"

      That's because unbelievers are under the law and will be judged as such. The law is used to show people they can't keep to God's standard — and that they already haven't — and thus NEED the Savior.

      March 11, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • End Religion

      "That's because unbelievers are under the law and will be judged as such. The law is used to show people they can't keep to God's standard — and that they already haven't — and thus NEED the Savior."

      Not true. We have no need of any saviour, let alone your fictional one.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:01 am |
  12. muslim2012

    God Sent Jesus' (pbuh)

    The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:

    (i)

    "… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."
    [The Bible, John 14:24]

    (ii)

    "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
    [The Bible, John 17:3]

    March 11, 2013 at 9:39 am |
  13. hawkeye

    Ahhhhhhh, religion and god is all about love.....right? How stupid is blind faith, the dumbest.

    March 11, 2013 at 9:38 am |
  14. muslim2012

    Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity

    One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):

    (i) "My Father is greater than I."
    [The Bible, John 14:28]

    (ii) "My Father is greater than all."
    [The Bible, John 10:29]

    (iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
    [The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

    (iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
    [The Bible, Luke 11:20]

    (v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
    [The Bible, John 5:30]

    March 11, 2013 at 9:38 am |
    • Topher

      After Jesus' arrest, He was brought before the high priest, who asked Him, "' ... are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?' And Jesus said, 'I am: and you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.'" Mark 14:61-62

      March 11, 2013 at 11:01 am |
    • End Religion

      Topher, you're using the wrong translation.

      March 11, 2013 at 11:04 am |
  15. Reality

    See p. 1, for an easy, safe and peaceful solution !!

    March 11, 2013 at 8:22 am |
  16. End violence

    It was an alleged comment. Don't be so passionate about violence. The more you attempt to squelch their faith, the more stronger the case for its existence. Stop the violence, Christians deserve the right to live peacefully.

    March 10, 2013 at 10:05 pm |
  17. John

    A warm hello to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the only God there is. And a big thank you for sending your son Jesus to die for others sins.

    March 10, 2013 at 9:42 pm |
    • I Paint Houses

      Are you a latent appliance fetishist?

      March 10, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      God of Abraham has no son, neither part of Hebrew teachings, but hinduism absurdity of hindu crook Romans of hindu racist Egyptian origin.

      March 10, 2013 at 10:34 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      but on second thought, God of Abraham had adopted son, Mohammad, pbh, somehow it was dropped out of Hebrew teachings, but hindu swamis predicted birth of Abrahim, missed by one letter, as well crook Romans of hindu racist Egyptian origin mentioned on the wall arts in Rome, check Paris museums out.

      March 10, 2013 at 10:43 pm |
    • ya

      you've got a problem dude

      March 10, 2013 at 11:53 pm |
    • sam stone

      Not to mention a big "fvck off" for having set up the entrapment to begin with

      March 11, 2013 at 6:34 am |
    • Science

      It might be Chad he can't deal with isabeell being a fairy

      Peace

      March 11, 2013 at 6:43 am |
    • .

      A warm hello to someone who has the same stupid mindset as those who burned dowm those houses. Good morning, religious bigot!

      March 11, 2013 at 9:15 am |
  18. Correctlycenter

    Messiah means "Anointed". Jesus Christ fulfilled over 108 OT prophesies going all the way back from Genesis chapter 3 to the prophecy of Daniel, not counting the many prophesies in the gospels. He is the Christ, Lamb of God, Savior, Holy One of Israel, The Good Shepherd, Son of God, Redeemer, Bright and Morning Star, Bread of Life, Emmanuel, King of kings, Lord of lords, Alpha and Omega, The Way, Truth and the Life, Teacher, Friend...

    March 10, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • bobk52

      As all the other gods thru out history!

      March 10, 2013 at 7:59 pm |
    • hawkeye

      Proof? Oh, you have none? STFU

      March 10, 2013 at 9:25 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Jesus loves us so much he created hell just in case we don't love him back.

      March 10, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
  19. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things,

    March 10, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      March 11, 2013 at 8:42 am |
    • Really?

      "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things"

      That's why the data, has shown that atheists have happier and healthier lives than conservative Christians. Your post is built on a lie!

      March 11, 2013 at 8:44 am |
  20. Answer

    Look at the two whiners, Austin and I-Slam. Both shouting out that they have the proper 'prophet'.

    You're both not getting any 'profit' as it seems.

    March 10, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.