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Humble pope has complicated past
Argentinian Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio draws the cross on the forehead of a parishioner on Ash Wednesday in Buenos Aires.
March 15th, 2013
11:50 AM ET

Humble pope has complicated past

(CNN) - Pope Francis is being painted as a humble and simple man, but his past is tinged with controversy surrounding topics as sensitive as gay marriage and political atrocities.

Questions linger about Francis' actions during the nation's dark days: the so-called Dirty War, when Argentina was ruled by dictators. The gay marriage issue came to the forefront during Francis' political fight with Argentina's president.

The conservative pontiff may hold firm on some issues, experts say, but he may be flexible on others.

"If you think that (Francis) isn't going to change anything, you're wrong," said Gustavo Girard, a retired doctor who knew Francis during his early years in the priesthood. "But is he going to approve of gay marriage tomorrow? No."

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Argentina • Catholic Church • Pope • Pope Francis • Vatican

soundoff (548 Responses)
  1. FYI

    Christianity not only brings on feelings of guilt, but its promotion of death over life is morbid. The fact that a cross, a symbol of suffering, torture and death is the icon of the faith illustrates that Christianity is a philosophy of death and has turned real human values into non-values. Suffering has become noble and death has become eternal life. Pictures and illustrations of blood gushing wounds on the fictitious Jesus abound almost everywhere and blood rituals such as communion are core practices in almost every church in the world. The bloody image of a man on a cross desensitizes the faithful and causes them to believe that suffering and misery are expected and death is the only escape. Christianity teaches that all people are evil and destined to a life of pain and suffering and hope only lies in the salvation of Christ and his assurance of a heavenly reward after we die and those who do not believe will be eternally punished. I find it hard to contemplate a more evil system.

    March 16, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • End Religion

      Phillip, you're not fooling anyone except me.

      March 16, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      @FYI

      The gospel doesn't only consist of the message that Jesus died for us but also of the message that he has resurrected for our justification. You are like the devil who abuses divine words by distorting them. In the paradise he told Adam and Eve that they would not be allowed to eat from all trees (as if God would be a killjoy) but God had only forbidden to eat from one single tree, the three of super-scrutinizing.

      March 16, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • clarity

      The gospel is -> from unknown authors and we don't even know how many distinct writers there were. Get over yourself, RB.

      March 16, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • lol??

      Got plenty of distink writers here. Project much??

      March 16, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
  2. FYI

    Christianity teaches its followers to meek and mild, to accept their lot in life. This might seem like humility at its best, but consider the fate of a country that adopts this attitude and how easy it would be for any despot to seize and keep power. Does this not assure the perpetration of evil and is this doctrine not carte blanche for every injustice imaginable? It is no accident that the bible lacks any story, tale or parable about the oppressed rising up against their oppressors. Hitler and many other dictators over the centuries all looked to the bible for justification of their actions. And they have found it there.
    There are many other problems with the alleged “divine ethics” of the Christian faith. Slavery, which was widespread in biblical times and continues to be in many countries, is not only not admonished in the bible, but instructions on how to treat slaves is part of holy scripture. As a general rule, women are treated as second class citizens because Christianity is a male-dominated social hierarchy. The Apostle Paul even tells women to never speak in church, along with a plethora of other misogynist requirements

    March 16, 2013 at 9:59 am |
    • Deborah from Judges

      Sorry to burst your bubble. There are many women of the Bible who come across as strong, courageous and godly. The moniker above is a great example of, one of those many women who have had a positive role to play.
      The scriptures give us an insight into what an ideal women could be like in Proverbs 31.

      March 16, 2013 at 10:12 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      I could endure you if you would critisize the Roman Catholic Church because this church is really corrupted. Yet, I find it stupid and foolish to criticize the most advanced faith of all times. Of course, a true Christian shall not pay back but this task takes on God who is a mighty man of war.

      March 16, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • clarity

      The fishy smell of the Christian story started before Catholicism, RB – get a clue.

      March 16, 2013 at 11:31 am |
  3. FYI

    The basic problem with Christian morality comes down to it being little more than a primitive system of reward and punishment. Be good, don’t ask questions and stay in line and you will be rewarded. Be skeptical, ask questions and use your mind in a reasonable and rational manner and you are consigned to eternal punishment in the most horrible place, forever. Although some churches have modified this and a few have even eliminated, this system has remained fundamental to Christianity throughout the history of the church. The whole idea of heaven and hell is a perfect illustration of just how the the core of Christianity is against reason, rationality and even life, itself. The faith elevates ignorance and non-productivity and suppresses creative and innovative thought. One competent scientist is worth more than a thousand evangelists.

    March 16, 2013 at 9:43 am |
  4. FYI

    The belief that there was a divine man who died for the sins of the world is a grievous and immoral notion. It amounts to human sacrifice. If this were even suggested in real life, such as someone offering to become victim of capital punishment for another’s crime, there would be cries from from every corner of society denouncing this action. Given that, then by what possible stretch of the imagination does an immoral idea such as this suddenly become moral when it is the murder of the fictitious Jesus is a substitution for the “crime” of another person or persons? Obviously, the answer is to instill guilty feelings. There can be no other logical purpose. When you look at the base doctrines of evangelism, it is very apparent that fear and guilt are the basic emotions that are used by Christianity to convert its targets. Those who eventually walk away from their faith were probably converted through fear alone, as a fearful person may eventually rebel. However, those who become life long adherents were more than likely converted through both fear and guilt, because a person with deep feelings of guilt is not likely to rebel. The alleged “sacrifice” of Christ has served the church very well over the millennia.

    March 16, 2013 at 9:42 am |
  5. FYI

    Any religion that requires the acceptance of its ideas on faith alone is admitting that its doctrines cannot stand on their own merits nor withstand any critical examination. They require that their adherents accept as truth their authority, and Christianity is a perfect illustration of this point. The belief in a god is irrational, as are those who accepts the belief in a god. Once this leap of faith is made, it only takes short steps to abandon the standards of rationality and lose the ability to distinguish truth from falsehoods. When one examines the doctrines of Christianity, it is revealed not to be the bastion of wonderful moral standards. To the opposite, Christian morals are contrary to our well being and to our society.

    March 16, 2013 at 9:40 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      The "worst" rationalist of all times was Frederic the Great, King of Pruzzia, Promoter of Enlightenment. Yet, these "outrageouses" rationalist believed in God, the Father, in God, the Son, and in God, the Holy Spirit. To sum it up: Frederic II believed in the Holy Tinity. I am a rationalist too but this does not "disturb" may faith in any way.

      You are not a rationalist but simply a stubborn sinner. Repent, before it is too late.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:52 am |
    • Ron

      "You are not a rationalist but simply a stubborn sinner. Repent, before it is too late."

      Your religion is a fake.

      Life events shared by Jesus and another god-man:

      There are numerous god-men in the ancient Mediterranean area and Middle East. There are many stories that appear both in Jesus' biography and in the legends of another god-man:

      – Mother's pregnancy: It was a common belief among early Christians that Mary was pregnant for only seven months. This legend is preserved in the Gospel of the Hebrews. Although this gospel was widely used by early Christians, it was never accepted into the official canon. Semele, mother of Dionysus, was also believed to have had a 7 month pregnancy.

      – Virgin birth: Author William Harwood has written that Jesus' "equation in Greek eyes with the resurrected savior-god Dionysos led an interpolator to insert a virgin-birth myth into the gospel now known as Matthew." 1

      – Birth Witnesses:

      – The gospel of Matthew records that Jesus was visited by an unknown number of wise men, called Magi.

      – Authors Freke & Gandy identify them as followers of the god man Mithras from Persia. 4

      – Most other sources believe that they were Zoroastrian priests from Persia who were experts in astrology. There is a Zoroastrian belief "that a son of Zoroaster will be born many years after his death by a virgin...This son will apparantly [sic] raise the dead and crush the forces of evil. Later Christians got rather excited about this apparant [sic] pagan prophecy of the coming of the Messiah..." 2

      – The gospel of Luke records that Jesus was visited by three shepherds. Mithra the god man from Persia was also visited shortly after birth by three shepherds.

      – The magi brought gold, frankincense and myrrh. A Pagan belief from the 6th century BCE states that these are the precise materials to use when worshiping God.

      – Healing: Jesus is recorded throughout the gospels as healing the sick and restoring the dead to life. So was Asclepius, a Greek god man. Pagans and early Christians debated who was the more effective healer.

      – Ministry: Jesus appeared as a wandering holy man who is later transfigured in the presence of some of his disciples. Dionysus was portrayed in the same manner in Euripides' play The Bacchae, written in 410 BCE.

      – Miracles:

      – Both Jesus and Empedocles were recorded as teaching spiritual truths, curing illness, foretelling the future, controlling the wind and rain, and raising people from the dead.

      – Both Mithra and Jesus performed many healings of the sick and mentally ill; both raised the dead. 3

      – Mark, chapter 5 describes Jesus driving demons from a man into a herd of about 2,000 pigs who rushed over a cliff and drowned. In Eleusis, about 2,000 initiates would bathe in the sea. Each had a young pig to which the believers' sins would be transferred. The pigs were then chased over a chasm and killed.

      – Fishing: John 21:11 records that Jesus performed a miracle which enabled Simon Peter to catch exactly 153 fish. The Pagan Pythagoras considered 153 a sacred number. The ratio of 153 to 265 was referred to by the Pagan Archimedes as "the measure of the fish." That ratio is used to generate a fish-like shape using two circles. The sign of the fish was used by the early Christians as their main symbol.

      – Arrest:

      – Both Dionysus and Jesus celebrated a Last Supper with his 12 disciples before his death.

      – Dionysus is described in Euripides' play The Bacchae as bringing a new religion to the people, being plotted against by the leaders, being arrested and appearing before the political ruler. Dionysus said to his captors "You know not what you are doing..," almost replicating Jesus' words at the cross. He was unjustly accused and executed. All of these themes are seen in the Gospels.

      – Crucifixion & resurrection:

      – Jesus' body was wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh and aloe. Osiris was also said to have been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh.

      Again, the god men myths had been circulating well before Jesus birth. The Christians would have copied earlier Pagan material, not vice-versa.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:57 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      The old, serious and honest rationalist never critisized genuine Christianity but only the Church which had distorted the genuine faith. The Roman Catholic Church distorts the genuine faith for about 1400 years (600 after Christ evil papacy came into being; before the 7th centure the RCC was indeed a Christian Church, and the Holy Spirit was there; today you no more find the Holy Spirit in this insti-tution backwardness).

      March 16, 2013 at 9:59 am |
    • clarity

      Bullshit, RB.

      March 16, 2013 at 11:32 am |
  6. Kee

    God knows exactly what I need... and has already given it to me.
    My job is to keep it simple.... & ask for God's help in relieving me of the extra stuff...
    – the shortcomings that keep me tied down.

    March 16, 2013 at 9:33 am |
    • End Religion

      It is true the Flying Spaghetti Monster knows and sees all. He is the One True God!

      March 16, 2013 at 9:46 am |
    • Roger that

      What if God thinks you need cancer or a permanent disability from an accident?

      March 16, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • Kee

      God will give me the strength to get through it.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • clarity

      Oh just get a good cup of tea and a vitamin B pill and you'll be OK Kee. Stay away from those energy canned junk; 5-hr, etc. – you don't need the other junk they put in there.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • Yeah right

      Funny how people without god get through it too, and just as well. So do people with other gods. Indeed, no matter what you believe, you get through it, whatever the outcome.

      I love the way Christians say they couldn't have survived something without god when so many others do. It's like they are saying they are much weaker that the average human and would just collapse and die for no reason without their invisobuddy.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
  7. the AnViL™

    the vatican should be razed – the adherents of catholicism scattered – and its clergy burned on pyres of the roman catholic cannon.

    March 16, 2013 at 9:27 am |
  8. Rainer Braendlein

    Frederic the Great, King of Pruzzia, against the Roman Catholic Church

    (Antimachiavel, Chapter 11, by Frederic the Great, King of Pruzzia, Promoter of Enlightenment)

    (the book “Antimachiavel” refers to Machiavelli’s book “The Prince”, and is a refutation of “The Prince”)

    I have always found it very strange that these who call themselves successors of the apostles, I mean some poor men – preachers of humility and repentance – should possess great wealth, wallow in luxery, and fill posts more proper to satisfy the vanity of the age and the ostentation of the great than to occupy men who must meditate on the nothingness of human life and on the quest for salvation. However, the clergy of the Roman church is extremly rich. Bishops hold the rank of sovereign princes, and the temporal and spiritual power of the first bishop of Christendom renders him somehow the arbiter of kings(“arbiter of kings” means that the pope was higher than the Emperor, and thus the actual temporal ruler of the whole world) and the fourth person of the Divinity (“person of Divinity” means that the pope really presumes to be on a level with God).

    (Catholic) Clergymen and theologians separate the attributes of the body from those of the soul more scrupulously than anyone else, but their arguments might better be applied to the subject of their ambition. You, they could be told, whose ministry is restricted to the spiritual realm, how can you have so grossly confused it with the temporal? You who so subtly employ the distinguo when it comes to the mind, which you do not understand at all, and to matter, which you understand very little, how does it come that you reject these distinctions when it comes to your interest? It is because these gentlemen worry very little about the unintelligible jargon that they spout out and very much about the great revenues that they take in. It is because their fashion of reasoning must conform to orthodoxy and their fashion of action to their passions; and that the tangible objects of nature are as dominant over their intellect as the real happiness of this life is over the ideal happiness of the next world.

    The astonishing power of clergymen as well as everything which regards their temporal government is the subject of this chapter.

    Machiavelli finds that ecclesiastical princes are very happy because they have to fear neither the rebellion of their subjects nor the ambition of their neighbours (neighbouring princes). The respectable and impressive name of the Divinity shelters them from whatever could oppose their interest and greatness. The princes who attack them would fear the fate of T-itans (T-itans were thrown into the Tartarus, a kind of abyss, by the Greek god Zeus; the Catholic equivalent of Zeus is the pope) and the people who disobey them that of the sacrilegious. The pious policy of this kind of sovereign aims at persuading the world of what Despreaux expresses so well in the verse:

    “He who loves not Cotin loves neither God nor king.”

    What is strange is that these princes find enough credulous dupes who adhere blindly to whatever they want them to believe. It is certain, however, that no country swarms with more beggars than one run by priests. There one can see a touching picture of all human miseries, not of those poor attrackted by the alms of sovereigns, or of those insects who attach themselves to the reach, but of starving beggars deprived of necessities by the “charity” of their bishops so as to prevent them from becoming corrupted by affluence.

    It is undoubtly upon the laws of Sparta where money was prohibited that the principles of these ecclesiastical governments are founded, with the difference that the prelates reserve for themselves the use of the wealth of which they most devoutly despoil their subjects. Blessed, they say, are the poor, for they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven! And since they want everybody to be saved, they make sure that everyone is poor. Oh, ecclesiastical piety, is there anything that escapes your wise foresight?

    Nothing should be more edifying than the story of the heads of the church or vicars of Jesus Christ. One expects to find examples of irreproachable und saintly morals there. However, it is just the contrary. There are only obscenities, abominations, and sources of scandal; and one cannot read the lifes of the popes without detesting their cruelty and perfidy.

    One sees there their immense ambition to augment their temporal power, their sordid avarice in transfering great wealth unjustly and dishonestly to their families in order to enrich their nephews, mistresses, or bast-ards.

    Those who reflect insufficiently find it peculiar that people suffer the oppression of this kind of sovereign with docility and patience, that they do not open their eyes to the vices and excesses of the clergymen who degrade them, and that they endure from a head that is shorn what they wold not suffer from a head crowned with laurels. This phenomenon appears less strange to those who know the power of superst-ition upon idiots and of fanaticism on the human mind. They know that religion is an old machine that will never wear out and that has always been used to insure the fidelity of people and put a brake on the restlessness of human reason. They knew that error can blind the most penetrating men and that there is nothing more triumphant than the policy of those who put heaven and hell, God and the devil into play in order to attain their designs. Even the true religion itself, the purest source of all our good, is most deplorably abused and often becomes the origin and principle of all our misfortunes.

    The author (Machiavelli) most judiciously notes what contributed to the elevation of the Holy See. Hee attributes it principally to the able conduct of Alexander VI, a pontiff who pushed cruelty to the extreme and who knew no justice but perfidy. One could not thus confuse the product of the ambition of this pontiff with the work of Divinity. Heaven could not have played any direct part in the elevation of this temporal greatness, which is only the work of a very vicious and depraved man. One could thus do no better than to distinguish carefully among clergy men betweeen the mark of God when they announce the divine orders and the corrupt man when they are thinking only of satisfying their passions.

    The eulogy of Leo X concludes this chapter, but his eulogy doesn’t carry much wight since Machiavelli was the contemporary of this pope. Any praise by a subject to his master or by an author to a prince appears, what ever one may say, as very close to flattery. Our life can only be judged by posterity, which judges without passions or interest. Machiavelli should have been the last to make an attempt at flattery, for he was not a competent judge of true merit, not even knowing what virtue was; and I don’t know if it is better to have been praised than blamed by him. I leave this question for the reader to judge.

    http://www.confessingchurch.worpdress.com

    March 16, 2013 at 9:22 am |
    • End Religion

      May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:47 am |
  9. Rainer Braendlein

    The pope has not only a complicated past, the pope-office in itself was ever questionable.

    Also Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the great Protestant German reformer who resisted Hitler and the Nazis, questioned the papal office. Here a small passage from Bonhoeffer about papacy:

    Bonhoeffer has rejected papacy!!! Bonhoeffer has rejected papacy!!! Bonhoeffer has rejected papacy!!!

    During the Third Reich single people, congregations and pastors had to dicide, whether they wanted to join the Confessing Church or the Nazi-Church (Reichskirchenregierung). At that time there were pastors, congregations and single people arguing: "as long as we preach the true gospel in our local congregation, we belong to the true, worldwide Church of Jesus (Christian Church) regardless of our “formal” submission to the Nazi-Church."

    Bonhoeffer has rejected this reasoning. His quotation “extra ecclesiam nulla salus (outside the Church there is no salvation)” became well known. When the Christian Church is attacked by an antichristian church there is solely one holy reaction: Someone must leave the antichristian church and join the Christian Church. A verbally correct preaching of the gospel inside the antichristian whole Church is nullified by the cowardice of the pastor and the local congregation to profess Jesus Christ publically (by shifting from the antichristian church to the Christian Church). The continous enemy of the Christian Church is the Roman Church. Bonhoeffer regarded submission under the pope like submission under the Nazi-Church!

    You can check this in Volume 14 of the DietrichBonhoefferWerke (DBW) “Illegale Theologenausbildung in Finkenwalde 1935-1937″, Bonhoeffer’s Aufsatz über Kirchengemeinschaft:

    Open page 677 and 678 of the volume, because there you can read the following:

    What if, if in a single congregation of the Roman Church or of the Reichskirche (Nazi-Church) the gospel would be preached purely? Isn’t there then the true church too? (Answer:) There is no pure preaching of the gospel independent from the whole Church. Even if someone would preach the gospel in purity like the apostle Paul and he would be obedient to the pope or the Reichskirchenregierung (Nazi-Church), he would be a heretic and seducer of the congregation.”

    By the way, the problem of papacy is a basic problem. The practical behaviour of the Roman Church is not the subject, but her structure: Jesus Christ wants to be the head of the General, Christian Church. This office the pope has stolen from Christ. Thus the papcy must be rejected, even if the Roman Church behaves friendly.

    Salvation you can solely find in the Church which is ruled by Jesus Christ! Extra ecclesiam nulla salus!!!

    According to an interpretation of the Revelation by Luther, papacy will decline. The time has come?

    March 16, 2013 at 9:04 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I don't have much use for Luther's interpretations. Von den Juden und ihren Lügen, for example.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:07 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      Even the great apostle St. Paul said that the Jews are enemies of the Gospel. However, this is a spiritual enmity, and gives us no right to harm or kill any Jew. Luther refered, of course, to this spiritual enmity which has nothing to do with the racism of the Nazis. In the Nazi-language the word Jew meant a biological descendant of Father Jacob. In the language of the New Testament the word Jew means mostly Jewish leader, especially when it is used polemically. The Jewish leaders, the elders. the Scribes, the Pharisees, the high priests, etc. resited their Messiah Jesus Christ and his apostels, the became enmies of the gospel, and this enmity is still there up to today.

      Let us not forget to mention that God still loves his people Israel. The covenants of the Old Testament are still valid. It is only a question of time until they will realize that Jesus from Nazareth was/is their foretold Messiah, and they will adore him as their God.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:34 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      Even the great apostle St. Paul said that the Jews are enemies of the Gospel. However, this is a spiritual enmity, and gives us no right to harm or kill any Jew; on the contray, we shall love our Jewish fellow human beings. Luther refered, of course, to this spiritual enmity which has nothing to do with the racism of the Nazis. In the Nazi-language the word Jew meant a biological descendant of Father Jacob. The Nazis just hated the Jewish race. In the language of the New Testament the word Jew means mostly Jewish leader, especially when it is used polemically. The Jewish leaders, the elders. the Scribes, the Pharisees, the high priests, etc. resisted their divine Messiah Jesus Christ and his apostels, they became enemies of the gospel, and this enmity is still there up to today.

      Let us not forget to mention that God still loves his people Israel. The covenants of the Old Testament are still valid. It is only a question of time until they will realize that Jesus from Nazareth was/is their foretold Messiah, and they will adore him as their God.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:42 am |
    • End Religion

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_delusion

      March 16, 2013 at 9:49 am |
  10. Rainer Braendlein

    The pope has not only a complicated past the pope-office in itself was ever questionable.

    Also Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the great German reformer who resisted Hitler and the Nazis questioned the papal office. Here a small passage from Bonhoeffer about papacy:

    Bonhoeffer has rejected papacy!!! Bonhoeffer has rejected papacy!!! Bonhoeffer has rejected papacy!!!

    During the Third Reich single people, congregations and pastors had to dicide, whether they wanted to join the Confessing Church or the Nazi-Church (Reichskirchenregierung). At that time there were pastors, congregations and single people, arguing, as long as we preach the true gospel in our local congregation, we belong to the true, worldwide Church of Jesus (Christian Church) regardless of our “formal” submission to the Nazi-Church.

    Bonhoeffer has rejected this reasoning. His quotation “extra ecclesiam nulla salus (outside the Church there is no salvation)” became well known. When the Christian Church is attacked by an antichristian church, there is solely one holy reaction: Someone must leave the antichristian church and join the Christian Church. A verbally correct preaching of the gospel inside the antichristian whole Church is nullified by the cowardice of the pastor and the local congregation to profess Jesus Christ publically (by shifting from the antichristian church to the Christian Church). The continous enemy of the Christian Church is the Roman Church. Bonhoeffer regarded submission under the pope like submission under the Nazi-Church!

    You can check this in Volume 14 of the DietrichBonhoefferWerke (DBW) “Illegale Theologenausbildung in Finkenwalde 1935-1937″, Bonhoeffer’s Aufsatz über Kirchengemeinschaft:

    Open page 677 and 678 of the volume, because there you can read the following:

    What if, if in a single congregation of the Roman Church or of the Reichskirche (Nazi-Church) the gospel would be preached purely? Isn’t there then the true church too? (Answer:) There is no pure preaching of the gospel independent from the whole Church. Even if someone would preach the gospel in purity like the apostle Paul and he would be obedient to the pope or the Reichskirchenregierung (Nazi-Church), he would be a heretic and seducer of the congregation.”

    By the way, the problem of papacy is a basic problem. The practical behaviour of the Roman Church is not the subject, but her structure: Jesus Christ wants to be the head of the General, Christian Church. This office the pope has stolen from Christ. Thus the papcy must be rejected, even if the Roman Church behaves friendly.

    Salvation you can solely find in the Church, which is ruled by Jesus Christ! Extra ecclesiam nulla salus!!!

    According to an interpretation of the Revelation by Luther, papacy will decline. The time has come?

    March 16, 2013 at 8:56 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      "Bonhoeffer regarded submission under the pope like submission under the Nazi-Church!" But then most believers submit to their imaginary God in ways that human despots can only dream of. Here's a commonly used hymn:

      1. Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine!
      O what a foretaste of glory divine!
      Heir of salvation, purchase of God,
      born of his Spirit, washed in his blood.
      Refrain:
      This is my story, this is my song,
      praising my Savior all the day long;
      this is my story, this is my song,
      praising my Savior all the day long.

      2. Perfect submission, perfect delight,
      visions of rapture now burst on my sight;
      angels descending bring from above
      echoes of mercy, whispers of love.
      (Refrain)

      3. Perfect submission, all is at rest;
      I in my Savior am happy and blest,
      watching and waiting, looking above,
      filled with his goodness, lost in his love.
      (Refrain)

      March 16, 2013 at 9:05 am |
  11. Inspiration

    “The higher the love, the more demands will be made on us to conform to that ideal.”
    ― Fulton J. Sheen, Life Is Worth Living

    March 16, 2013 at 8:48 am |
  12. Inspiration

    If all things in this universe exist, it is because they participate in the Being of God, if there are some things with life, it is because they are reflections of the life of God;
    if there are beings endowed with intellect and will — like men and angels — it's because they are a participation of the Sovereign Intellect which is God.

    Archbishop Sheen

    March 16, 2013 at 8:40 am |
    • Science

      Hey Inspiration ............................for Inspiration no fairy in the sky works.

      Why the Higgs boson 'God particle' matters

      First theorized 50 years ago, Higgs boson explains why particles have mass

      http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2013/03/14/f-god-particle-higgs-boson-why-matters.html

      March 16, 2013 at 9:16 am |
    • End Religion

      Your god is an immoral monster.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:51 am |
  13. Peace

    Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace.
    Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
    where there is injury, pardon;
    where there is doubt, faith;
    where there is despair, hope;
    where there is darkness, light;
    where there is sadness, joy.

    O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
    to be understood as to understand;
    to be loved as to love;
    For it is in giving that we receive;
    it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
    it is in dying that we are born again to eternal life.

    March 16, 2013 at 8:31 am |
    • Kee

      A beautiful prayer.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:31 am |
    • End Religion

      This poem is one of the most beautiful things ever inspired by The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Our One True Lord and Saviour! May you feel the weight of His meaty balls upon you!

      March 16, 2013 at 9:52 am |
  14. Peace

    Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; where there is sadness, joy.

    O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood as to understand; to be loved as to love; For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; it is in dying that we are born again to eternal life.

    -St. Francis

    March 16, 2013 at 8:28 am |
    • End Religion

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBHfiR4jtCU&w=640&h=360]

      March 16, 2013 at 9:52 am |
  15. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things.

    March 16, 2013 at 8:14 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:23 am |
    • Really?

      "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things"

      That's why the data, has shown that atheists have happier and healthier lives than conservative Christians. Your post is built on a lie!

      March 16, 2013 at 9:28 am |
  16. lol??

    "Your right, kind of sayz,
    Yes there is no proof that the christian god does not exist; but, there are mountains of evidence that it doesn't. For example why does he never miraculously heal amputees, .............."
    You come on a belief blog and spout this kind of nonsense to Christians?? Get a clue.

    "Luk 22:50-51 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him."

    March 16, 2013 at 7:20 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Got anything to corroborate the tale? Of course you don't. And you can't doc ument a single instance in the past 100 years in which your god gave an amputee a new limb.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:38 am |
    • lol??

      Pipe, you're a rubbernecker and I saw you pushin' taxpayer funded rubbers on another story.

      March 16, 2013 at 11:57 am |
  17. enriquetabrasini

    If you think Debbie`s story is incredible..., in the last month my sisters father in law brought in $5461 putting in a thirteen hour week in their apartment and there roomate's ex-wife`s neighbour has been doing this for 6 months and earnt over $5461 parttime from there laptop. applie the advice on this address............. BIT40. ℂOℳ

    March 16, 2013 at 6:00 am |
  18. John Smith

    I have a question: why do these stories always attract commentators from the lower end of the IQ barrel? Between the poor grammar and faults in logic (from BOTH atheists and theists here), one has to wonder you guys are borderline retarded.

    For the record, let me state that I am an atheist-turned-theist. I can eaaily argue both philosophies better than everybody here.

    Maybe if you guys read a few books on formal logic, you'd get beyond, "hey, you [insert random insult here] atheist/theist, you're wrong and I'm right because [insert non-worked-out thought here]."

    March 16, 2013 at 2:17 am |
    • .

      Feel better now that you got your hissy fit out of the way?
      I have to ask you why are you such a condescending, pompous douchebag? Do you think being an arrogant prick helps anything?
      And yes, I know that I am being base and insulting. But then again, so are you.
      And for the record, I couldn't give two shits what your belief system is; I believe you are an asshole with a superiority complex. Go fuck yourself.

      March 16, 2013 at 5:05 am |
    • Atheist, me?

      Faulty grammar like
      "Eailly argue..."

      March 16, 2013 at 5:12 am |
    • Atheist, me?

      In fact if I had a PC and was not in a bus I would correct your whole post for grammar and spellings!

      March 16, 2013 at 5:16 am |
    • USMC 1371

      Next time you have a thought just keep it to yourself and, let us guess how stupid you are instead of showing us.

      March 16, 2013 at 7:35 am |
    • The

      chad

      March 16, 2013 at 7:46 am |
    • the AnViL™

      "atheist-turned-theist"

      every theist was at one time an atheist. lol

      so basically what you're doing – is admitting publicly that you either never had any critical thinking skills – or you shed them along the way.

      also – if you're going to shit on the grammar of others – you should at least learn to check your barely literate writing for typos and other glaring errors, bub.

      as for iq's – you clearly fall to the left hand side of the bell curve.

      cha cha cha

      March 16, 2013 at 9:45 am |
    • End Religion

      hey, you numbskull atheist turned theist, you're wrong and I'm right because you're a deluded wackadoodle.

      March 16, 2013 at 9:54 am |
  19. Answer

    So fred, tell everyone why you are a pathetic dreg.

    Trying to justify why you aren't?

    March 16, 2013 at 1:52 am |
    • Answer

      Why are you so defensive about your pathetic life?

      Everyone knows already. Tell us your sob story.

      March 16, 2013 at 1:54 am |
  20. Cat Holic

    If the new guy can make at least a 45 degrees turn to the future then there would be some hope for Catholics.

    March 16, 2013 at 1:32 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.