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Humble pope has complicated past
Argentinian Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio draws the cross on the forehead of a parishioner on Ash Wednesday in Buenos Aires.
March 15th, 2013
11:50 AM ET

Humble pope has complicated past

(CNN) - Pope Francis is being painted as a humble and simple man, but his past is tinged with controversy surrounding topics as sensitive as gay marriage and political atrocities.

Questions linger about Francis' actions during the nation's dark days: the so-called Dirty War, when Argentina was ruled by dictators. The gay marriage issue came to the forefront during Francis' political fight with Argentina's president.

The conservative pontiff may hold firm on some issues, experts say, but he may be flexible on others.

"If you think that (Francis) isn't going to change anything, you're wrong," said Gustavo Girard, a retired doctor who knew Francis during his early years in the priesthood. "But is he going to approve of gay marriage tomorrow? No."

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Argentina • Catholic Church • Pope • Pope Francis • Vatican

soundoff (548 Responses)
  1. Jorge

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44PKkD3V0Jk&w=640&h=360]

    March 16, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • Bob

      Way better video than Jorge's nonsense pablum:
      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo&w=640&h=360]

      March 16, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Thank God I turned off Javascript.

      At least I don't have to be assaulted with this youtube tripe.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • clarity

      Tom – do you just turn it off when you are using the browser to visit the Belief Blog?

      March 16, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's always off considering how long it took Oracle to fix the last exploit.

      No trust. None. Nada.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • clarity

      Tom do you mean Java or do you really mean Javascript? I don't even think the page would work at all with Javascript disabled.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Try it.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Just try it for yourself.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I don't turn off Java at all. The troll is so stupid it can't figure out that all one need do is simply not click on the play button.

      Stupid fvckwit.

      Guess poor little bethany is having a hissy.

      March 16, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • clarity

      Interesting. OK, guess I'm replying to real and fake Tom here, but I can see where someone this might help someone on a phone to get past the videos more quickly; and this was by disabling JavaScript (which is required by many other sites to work though, for things other than ads).

      March 16, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Clarity, just assume from here on out that all Tom, Tom posts after 4:13 pm are fake. I'll be back but not under this name.

      March 16, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • clarity

      Got it, Tom.

      March 16, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So, just to clarify, all the posts before 4:13 pm are me. Anything afterwards is the troll. Got it?

      March 16, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • The real Tom

      No, they aren't.

      Everyone knows the poorly written ones aren't mine.

      Suck on it, bethany.

      March 16, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • Bethany

      Let's do the phone s ex thing again, Tom Tom. Tomorrow at 9 good?

      March 16, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
  2. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things,

    March 16, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
  3. Jill

    Rainer Braendlein, phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhttt. Don't obfuscate the primary prenuptials with rasberries. Often, the pertinent cat presents fabled necessities in the parking chamfer. Realize your net precedent. Triangulate! Save the best for the alligators. Ever the bastille notches the orchestra but Wendy is not green and horses will capitulate. Filter out the log from the turnstile and cry prevalently.

    So there brown stare. Feed your inner walnut and resolve. Subject your lemon to the ingenious door in the presence of snow and animals. Aisle 7 is for the monetary cheese whiz. Faced with the kitchen, you may wish to prolong the sailboat in the cliff. Otherwise, rabbits may descend on your left nostril. Think about how you can stripe the sea.

    Regale the storm to those who (6) would thump the parrot with the armband. Corner the market on vestiges of the apparent closure but seek not the evidential circumstance. Therein you can find indignant mountains of pigs and apples. Descend eloquently as you debate the ceiling of your warning fulcrum. Vacate the corncob profusely and and don’t dote on the pancreas.

    Next up, control your wood. Have at the cat with your watch on the fore. Aft! Smarties (12)! Rome wasn’t kevetched in an autumn nightie. (42) See yourself for the turntable on the escalator. Really peruse the garage spider definitely again again with brown. Now we have an apparent congestion, so be it here. Just a moment is not a pod of beef for the ink well nor can it be (4) said that Karen was there in the millpond.

    Garbage out just like the candle in the kitty so. Go, go, go until the vacuum meets the upward vacation. Sell the yellow. Then trim the bus before the ten cheese please Louise. Segregate from the koan and stew the ship vigorously.

    And remember, never pass up an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart.

    March 16, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Control your own wood before you pick on poor Fritz.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Not my post. Assume all posts after 4:14 pm are impostors. Lame-ass ones.

      March 16, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • George

      I dunno, Tom Tom. I'm trying to follow this but it's getting hard. Now is that before or after 4:14?

      March 16, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • The real Tom

      If it's getting hard, yer little blue pill must be working.

      March 16, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
  4. Bootyfunk

    this new article is written by the new pope:

    I Am Old And Confused And Paralyzed With S.exual Frustration
    The Onion • ISSUE 49•11 • Mar 15, 2013
    By Pope Francis I

    Hello.

    I am a 76-year-old man who gets overwhelmed easily and has a difficult time keeping his thoughts straight. I’m confused a lot, and sometimes I don’t remember things that have happened just minutes ago. This is what happens when you are this old. You speak slower, your mind wanders, and doing simple tasks becomes difficult because concentrating is hard.
    I don’t understand what’s happening around me most of the time, and usually I want to be in bed because of how tired I am.
    I’m also a s.exually frustrated person. I have been celibate for nearly 45 years, and I’m constantly paralyzed by intense s.exual longing. Throughout the day, my mind—gone as it is—is filled with vivid carnal images. In fact, there will be many times throughout my papacy when I’ll be s.exually frustrated and thinking about s.ex. I’ll probably think about s.ex during Easter Mass. I’m thinking about s.ex right now.
    I want to have s.ex very badly.
    So, that’s me: an elderly, s.exually deprived man who has trouble remembering names, faces, and words when he tries to talk. Sometimes I’ll be speaking a sentence and stop because I can’t think of the right word to say. This didn’t happen when I was young. I’m also a man who faces a difficult job with complex problems. The problems frighten me because complex things make me nervous and confused and make me snap angrily at people for no good reason. Also, I’m tortured on a daily basis by my improper thoughts of naked women.
    Since being selected as Pope, I have been introduced to many new people who are saying many things I don’t understand. I’m too embarrassed to say, “Stop. I’m overwhelmed. You need to speak slower. I’m scared of new things, and I’m worried I’m too old to be doing this job.”
    I think about what it would be like to kiss a woman a fair amount, and at night I wonder what would happen if I mast.urbated. The fact that I even have these thoughts, and that God knows I have them, makes me feel extremely guilty. That guilt eats away at my insides, and the knowledge that I’ve freely chosen that guilt to be part of my life only makes me angrier.
    So, to summarize, there are times when I can’t focus on a single thing because a) I’ve forgotten what day it is, and b) I’m distracted because I’m thinking about s.exual intercourse.
    I’m also a tired man. If you want my honest opinion, I don’t have the energy to fix a corrupt inst.itution marred by scandal. I’m not quite sure I have enough left in the tank, as they say, to lead the Catholic Church into a bold new era. The thought of having to make the Church relevant to a whole new generation of Catholics exhausts me. All of that sounds like a job for a young person who both remembers where he puts things and isn’t constantly questioning whether or not he wasted his life depriving himself the pleasures of the female body.
    Truth be told, my ideal day is waking up, eating breakfast, and then sitting down in a chair and looking out a window. That way I’m not hearing things I don’t like, and I’m never being put in an uncomfortable position. I don’t like feeling uncomfortable. I don’t like it. I don’t like it. I don’t like it!
    I just want to sit in my chair and think about dying and never having s.ex.
    I love you, my children. Pray for me as I begin this new journey.

    March 16, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I never thought that the Onion was particularly funny. Their parodies are always just a little awkward... Like they're always trying too hard.

      Same for you.copying.from.them

      March 16, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
  5. SAAB

    @Chad – "I believe in the God of Israel, and since that belief is mutually exclusive with a belief in any other god, I have a reason to not believe in other gods."

    Chad is a believer for Israeli God, but he is an atheist for non-Israeli Gods. Chad is a flip-flopping fish.

    March 16, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • Circles are Chad's friends

      It's also a perfect example of circular logic. The Bible says other gods are false, so other gods are false. Which Chad knows because the Bible says so.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • Answer

      This is what Chad fails to grasp on the whole point of his entire life...

      In a hypothetical room there are three people in it. One is a scientist. The other two are creationists. Of the two type of creationists are the 'theistic evoluton' (from apologist spinnings) and the "young earthers".

      The whole point is "one of them is wrong".

      The other points are (at a maximum) "all three are wrong". There isn't a fourth person that can be wrong.

      Why doesn't the theistic evolution spinner argue against the young earther? Because of the underpinning of a god ally.
      The two god heads both share the same desire to INJECT god to any argument and will eschew the truth.

      The theistic evolution is the methodology created by apologists to do that very role. To INJECT god to an argument.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • Johnny Guitar

      Theistic evolution is also the tacit acceptance that your Bible has many errors in it.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
  6. Over 40,000 denominations of insanity

    Many Protestants rail on the Pope; some even think he has Anti-Christ characteristics.

    In the U.S. recently we learned of the head of Lutheran CMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    One sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    Some believe that celibacy is appropriate for certain people, or for certain positions. It's ridiculous. Celibacy is unnatural and will continue to cause problems for the religious institutions that employ it.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create divisions and more extremism as it goes.

    =================================================
    Has anything improved with Christianity since 200+ years ago?

    Thomas Jefferson, POTUS #3 (from Notes on the State of Virginia):

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    James Madison, POTUS #4, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights (from A Memorial and Remonstrance delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785):

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    John Adams, POTUS #2 (in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 09/03/1816):

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    Ben Franklin (from a letter to The London Packet, 3 June 1772):

    If we look back into history for the character of present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practised it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England, blamed persecution in the Roman church, but practised it against the Puritans: these found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England.

    Thomas Paine (from The Age of Reason):

    All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    March 16, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Blah, blah.... blechity blah.

      "... appear to me no other than.."

      Who cares about your perceptual difficulties.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
  7. Rainer Braendlein

    What actually is the issue of papacy, what is wrong about it?

    There is a true Christian Church, and there is the Roman Catholic Church. The RCC was once a true Christian Church but seperated from the general Christian Church in the 7th century when evil papacy came into being.

    In the 7th century Phocas, an evil usurper seized the throne of the Eastern Roman Empire killing the legitimate emperor Maurice. Phocas made the Roman See the highest on earth. Still Gregory I, the last good bishop of Rome, had refused to become bishop of all bishops, but his successors accepted the elevation by the evil Phocas. These people were no more concerned about the soul's health of the Italian Christians but were only greedy for honor, power and riches. Around 800 after Christ the pope together with Charles the Great even founded a new (Pseudo-) empire which was the counterpart of the Eastern Roman Empire which still existed, even until the 15th century when it was destroyed by the Muslim Turks.

    The name of the pseudo-empire was Holy Roman Empire of German Nation as if Charles' empire had been the legitimate successor of the ancient Roman Empire but this was in fact the Eastern Roman Empire with the capital Constantinople.

    Europe is the successor of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation whereby the great impact of the pope has been reduced though the glorious enlightenment which was mostly promoted through the Protestant King of Pruzzia Frederic the Great, the worst enemy of the pope of all times.

    The head of the true Christian Church is the invisible Jesus Christ. All pastors and bishops should be equal, and there should be no hierarchy. Every local congregation should elect its own pastors or bishops, and maybe they should cooperate with neighbouring congregation. On international councils they could gather to discuss matters of the doctrine, led by the Holy Spirit.

    The head of the RCC is the pope. The pope, as a human dwarf, was never able to lead Christ's body, and thus the RCC became a nasty wormhole of heresies.

    Dear Catholic, refer to your baptism which is valid because it is a divine sacrament which cannot be damaged by the popes wrong doctrines. Believe that God delivered his Son Jesus Christ for your sins, and raised him from the dead for your justification. Through baptism you haved died for the sin, and received the Holy Spirit of love, you have died and resurrected together with Jesus. In this power you can overcome the lust of your body, and love God and your neighbour. Just forsake the popes rat-hole, and join us, the Christian Church, a new mankind in God.

    March 16, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • Akira

      Ah, yes, the "no true Scotsman" baloney again.
      Pfft.

      March 16, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Jill

      Rainer Braendlein, don't obfuscate the primary prenuptials with rasberries. Often, the pertinent cat presents fabled necessities in the parking chamfer. Realize your net precedent. Triangulate! Save the best for the alligators. Ever the bastille notches the orchestra but Wendy is not green and horses will capitulate. Filter out the log from the turnstile and cry prevalently.

      So there brown stare. Feed your inner walnut and resolve. Subject your lemon to the ingenious door in the presence of snow and animals. Aisle 7 is for the monetary cheese whiz. Faced with the kitchen, you may wish to prolong the sailboat in the cliff. Otherwise, rabbits may descend on your left nostril. Think about how you can stripe the sea.

      Regale the storm to those who (6) would thump the parrot with the armband. Corner the market on vestiges of the apparent closure but seek not the evidential circumstance. Therein you can find indignant mountains of pigs and apples. Descend eloquently as you debate the ceiling of your warning fulcrum. Vacate the corncob profusely and and don’t dote on the pancreas.

      Next up, control your wood. Have at the cat with your watch on the fore. Aft! Smarties (12)! Rome wasn’t kevetched in an autumn nightie. (42) See yourself for the turntable on the escalator. Really peruse the garage spider definitely again again with brown. Now we have an apparent congestion, so be it here. Just a moment is not a pod of beef for the ink well nor can it be (4) said that Karen was there in the millpond.

      Garbage out just like the candle in the kitty so. Go, go, go until the vacuum meets the upward vacation. Sell the yellow. Then trim the bus before the ten cheese please Louise. Segregate from the koan and stew the ship vigorously.

      And remember, never pass up an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
  8. Rainer Braendlein

    What actually is the issue of papacy, what is wrong about it?

    There is a true Christian Church, and there is the Roman Catholic Church. The RCC was once a true Christian Church but seperated from the general Christian Church in the 7th century when evil papacy came into being.

    In the 7th century Phocas, and evil usurper seized the throne of the Eastern Roman Empire killing the legitimate emperor Maurice. Phocas made the Roman See the highest on earth. Still Gregory I, the last good bishop of Rome, had rejected to become bishop of all bishops, but his successors accepted the elevation by the evil Phocas. These people were no more concerned for the soul's health of the Italian Christians but were only greedy for honor, power and riches. Around 800 after Christ the pope together with Charles the Great founded a new (Pseudo-) empire which was the counterpart of the Eastern Roman Empire which still existed, even until the 15th century when it was destroyed by the Muslim Turks.

    The name of the pseudo-empire was Holy Roman Empire of German Nation as if Charles' empire had been the legitimate successor of the ancient Roman Empire but this was in fact the Eastern Roman Empire with the capital Constantinople.

    Europe is the successor of the Holy Roman Empire of Gern Nation whereby the great impact of the pope has been reduced though the glorious enlightenment which was mostly promoted through the Protestant king Frederic the Great, the worst enemy of the pope of all times.

    The head of the true Christian Church is the invisible Jesus Christ. All pastors and bishops should be equal, and there should be no hierarchy. Every local congregation should elect its own pastors or bishops, and maybe the should cooperate with neighbouring congregation. On international councils the could gather to discuss matters of the doctrine, led by the Holy Spirit.

    The head of the RCC is the pope. The pope, as a human dwarf, was never able to lead Christ's body, and thus the RCC became a nasty wormhole of heresies.

    Dear Catholic, refer to your baptism which is valid because it is a divine sacrament which cannot be damaged by the popes wrong doctrines. Believe that God delivered his Son Jesus Christ for your sins, and raised him from the dead for your justification. Through baptism you haved died for the sin, and received the Holy Spirit of love, you have died and resurrected together with Jesus. In this power you can overcome the lust of your body, and love God and your neighbour. Just forsake the popes rat-whole, and join us, the Christian Church.

    March 16, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • .

      Catholics believe in God, not the Pope. God believes in Jesus, not the Pope. I know you have hate in your heart for Catholics, but if one believes in Jesus and God, all paths lead to Him, whether you personally like the denomination of Christianity or not. No one denomination of Christianity is any more valid than the other. You, sir, are an elitist Christian bigot. Shame on you.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
  9. chrissy hitchens

    When God can no longer endure your wicked actions and the wicked things you do you will become an object of cursing and a desolate waste.

    March 16, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
  10. Reality

    Dear Francis,

    Bringing you into the 21st century:

    o "Abrahamics" like yourself believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.

    To wit:

    1. The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:

    “ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

    2. "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

    3. See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”

    Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions supposedly abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    March 16, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, brother. Now the giant ego thinks the pope is going to take advice from him.

      What a friggin' fvcktard.

      March 16, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • understand

      Reality
      What does the Royal college of psychiatry say about bi-se xual behavior?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • understand

      One more question, what does the famed college of psychiatry say about polygamous behavior?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It doesn't take Freud to figure out that I enjoy fvcking myself silly.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
  11. Rainer Braendlein

    Muhammad forbade to drink wine but I am sure that he did it furtively. Muhammad, the damned Arabic hypocrite. Oh, if we could get rid of the hypocrites.

    The pope forbids his priests to take a wife but I am sure that he himself goes to the cathouse or has plenty of mistresses (remember the painting "Misstress mine" by John Sargent Singer).

    March 16, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You're "sure he did it furtively"? Why? Did you come into possession of some secret diary? Tell the truth-you're really Dan Brown.

      March 16, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
  12. Ben Franklin? r u sh/tting me?

    Ben Franklin was an overly obese womanizing pig slob of a man. Get a clue. Flying a kite in a storm did not absolve Ben of anything.

    March 16, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • clarity

      Is this a reply? What are you talking about?

      March 16, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • Akira

      This guy sounds just like Philip Douglas Answerman. With Tourette's keyboard.

      March 16, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
  13. Born that way

    None deny crackbabies are born that way, and none deny crack cocaine use as why such a baby.
    Yet, when it comes to birth defects caused by pharmakeia (as described by the apostle Paul) there exists dislink in your mind.
    This is how populations are controlled: Pharmakeia. Drugery. From the days of ancient Egypt's pagan one-eyed medicine god 'Horus' (the eye on your dollar bill) to ancient Greek physicians armed with meds that could kill an unborn baby to mind-altering mixtures of various petroleums that could even confuse genders...drugs have made you this way. Obese, diseased, hard hearted/early strokes, stupid, lazy, buy dog artificial hip as child goes hungry, etc.

    March 16, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You sound deranged.

      If there were ever a walking advertisement for drug treatment, you'd be a great choice.

      March 16, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • clarity

      If you don't like medicine 'Born that way', try triangles. Some claim the will lock in the sanity.

      March 16, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • Akira

      Okay, now I KNOW this is Philip Douglas Answerman.
      How are you today, you crazy bastard? Are you going to tell everybody crystal meth and Ritalin are SSRI's again?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      At first I thought it was Austin about to tell us about his diluted testicles theory again, but apparently psychosis amongst teh religious is more prevalent than I thought.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Akira

      That thread cracked me up last night, Rollo, especially the part where Doris asked if we're supposed to go out and bite a possum.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Rollo Tomasi

      I hate to admit this, but I have been on a pretty intense diet lately, and when you guys got going on possum, I got really hungry. If there had been a possum handy, I wonder if I would have given in to my hunger and fired up the barbeque? I bet with the right barbeque sauce and perhaps a nice side of cous-cous, that possum wouldn't have been mighty tasty with a nice burgundy . . .

      Damn. You got me going again. Bloody diets.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • Damocles

      @rollo

      You could write a book about a possum diet. Could be a best seller.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
  14. Bostontola

    An Emperor hires two swindlers who promise him the finest, best suit of clothes from a fabric invisible to anyone who is unfit for his position or "hopelessly stupid". The Emperor's ministers cannot see the clothing themselves, but pretend that they can for fear of appearing unfit for their positions and the Emperor does the same. The swindlers "finish" the clothes and dress him. The townsfolk play along with the pretense not wanting to appear unfit for their positions or stupid. Then a child blurts out that the Emperor is wearing nothing.

    Many religions parallel this fable, god is the clothes and instead of fear of looking unfit, there is the fear of eternal separation from god's love and worse. Billions live and have lived buying into the Emperor's New Clothes.

    I don't care if people choose to see these clothes, that is their choice. It does bother me when the clothes interfere with our public education system, e.g. When some want to teach intelligent design as science and deny objective facts like evolution. We will need to compete against China and others in the 21st century, I don't want us competing with one hand tied behind our backs.

    March 16, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • End Religion

      Some Hawaiian shirts have this same effect.

      March 16, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Poltergeist

      Yawn, then take it up with the evangelicals. Catholicism doesn't reject evolution.

      March 16, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Poltergeist, that's true. The RCC learned to embrace science long ago after the humiliation of putting Galileo under arrest for saying we live in a helio-centric system. They spend significant effort to reconcile science and the church. That doesn't justify their cowardice demonstrated as they turned away from the Spanish people, Jews, and others when Hitler attacked, the new pope was silent when the govt killed his fellow citizens, there are many examples. They should show more conviction.

      March 16, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • Chad

      @Bostontola,

      What if the God of Israel did in fact create the universe? Wouldnt it then make sense to acquaint ourselves with Him?

      On what basis do you discount that possibility?

      March 16, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why, Chard? Doesn't look as though doing so has done anything for you. You seem like a snotty little twerp. You never express any love for that which you consider to be your creator. You don't appear to be joyful in the slightest.

      What sort of advertisement are you for the benefits of belief?

      March 16, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad, why do you presume I have discounted that as a possibility? I believe that there is no god, I don't and can't know it or prove it. I have a Laplacian take on god, there is no need for that hypothesis. What we experience can be explained by natural phenomena, if there is a god, it is stealth to the point of irrelevance.

      March 16, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • Chad

      "What we experience can be explained by natural phenomena,"
      =>we experience the universe, the existence of which can not be explained by natural phenomena
      we experience the existence of physical laws of nature, the existence of which can not be explained by natural phenomena..

      "if there is a god, it is stealth to the point of irrelevance.""
      =>"stealth"???
      what about the existence of the Jewish nation? What about the historical reality of Jesus?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "we experience the universe, the existence of which can not be explained by natural phenomena
      we experience the existence of physical laws of nature, the existence of which can not be explained by natural phenomena.'

      Add one word and all of that is negated, Chard. The word is "YET."

      March 16, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad, I respect your right to believe in god. History of people's beliefs is not evidence of gods existence. People believed in a pantheon of gods, not many take that very seriously now.

      I have a question for you, do you regard evolution as a phenomenon of nature?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • End Religion

      Science has made great discoveries in the past 100 years confirming the reality of the Flying Spaghetti Monster as creator.

      Historical evidence
      – no historical detail in the The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has ever been proved to be incorrect
      – Historicity of the Spaghedeity
      – Historicity of the empty colander
      – Origin of the disciples belief that they had met a boiled Flying Spaghetti Monster, a belief they held so strongly that they were willing to go to their deaths proclaiming the truth.

      Fossil Record
      From the late 1800's thru 1972 the notion of "Darwinian gradualism" held the world captive. The notion that purely random mutation preserved in the population by natural selection would produce a gradual change, which over time would create the complexity of life we now observe (phyletic gradualism).

      Then, in 1972 the publication of "Punctuated equilibria: an alternative to phyletic gradualism" by Stephen Gould (atheist) finally forced the scientific world to accept the reality that the fossil record does not show the gradual change over time that Darwin proposed.

      Instead, what the community was forced to acknowledge, is that the fossil record reflects stasis and rapid change. This supports the theistic evolutionist claim that FSM used natural processes to develop life on this earth, as pure chance can never explain the grand paroxysm of necessarily interrelated mutations that are required to occur to accomplish this rapid change.

      Origins of the universe
      For most of scientific history, the universe was thought to have always existed, directly refuting the theistic claim that the universe had a beginning, and a creator.

      Then, a series of discoveries resulted in a complete transformation of thought, we now know that our universe has not always existed, rather it had a beginning, confirming the theistic claim:
      – 1929: Edwin Hubble discovers red shift (the stars and planets are all moving away from each other. The universe is expanding in all directions)
      – 1965: discovery of microwave cosmic background radiation (the echo's of the big bang)
      – 1998, two independent research groups studying distant supernovae were astonished to discover, against all expectations, that the current expansion of the universe is accelerating (Reiss 1998, Perlmutter 1999).
      – 2003: Borde, Guth, and Vilenkin's Past-Finite Universe proves our universe had a beginning

      Fine Tuning of the universe
      In the past 30 or 40 years, scientists have been astonished to find that the initial conditions of our universe were fine-tuned for the existence of building blocks of life. Constants such as gravitational constant have been found, the variation of which to even the smallest degree, would have rendered the universe utterly incapable of supporting life.

      "There is now broad agreement among physicists and cosmologists that the Universe is in several respects ‘fine-tuned' for life". However, he continues, "the conclusion is not so much that the Universe is fine-tuned for life; rather it is fine-tuned for the building blocks and environments that life requires." – Paul Davies

      "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and the electron. ... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life – Stephen Hawking

      Now, neither Davies or Hawking is a believer in FSM. They both believe in fine tuning, they just posit natural reasons for it. The only problem with my fine tuning argument is...
      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt-UIfkcgPY&w=640&h=360]

      March 16, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • Chad

      "YET"

      =>you always like to ignore the fact that science cant explain the non-natural, and the origin of the universe, existence of laws is non-natural, by definition..

      makes one wonder, what so terrifies you about acknowledging that which leading scientists of our age acknowledge?

      "Because science begins with the laws of the universe, it can not ever disprove God. Science can never explain why the laws exist, because to do so would require the existence of another law." - Leonard Mlodinow, co-author with Stephen Hawkings of "A Briefer History of Time"

      March 16, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad, I have a question for you:

      Do you regard evolution as a phenomenon of nature?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • TANK!!!!

      "science cant explain the non-natural"

      Who said there was a non-natural to explain in the first place?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • Chad

      "History of people's beliefs is not evidence of gods existence."
      =>evidence of Gods existence reflected in peoples belief certainly is

      "I have a question for you, do you regard evolution as a phenomenon of nature"
      =>do you mean theistic evolution, or atheistic evolution?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Chad why can't you use CNN's article ?

      Stephen Hawking: God didn't create universe – CNN

      articles.cnn.com/.../hawking.god.universe_1_universe-abrahamic-fait...

      Sep 2, 2010 – God did not create the universe, world-famous physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book that aims to banish a divine creator

      March 16, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad, do you believe that the genome of a species changes over time due to population variance and mutation resulting in new form and function?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • JMEF

      Chad
      So how do you extrapolate your cherry picked quote into, that the god of Isreal ever existed outside of the book of fiction the bible?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • Chad

      @Science

      Hawkings proposal claims our universe was created from another "pre-existent" universe.
      So, the problem of cosmic origin just gets transferred to that universe.
      what created that? and so on, and so on.

      doesnt solve the problem of the necessity of the initial uncaused cause. It just dodges it 🙂

      March 16, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • Chad

      @Bostontola "do you believe that the genome of a species changes over time due to population variance and mutation resulting in new form and function?"

      =>yes.
      I believe in theistic evolution

      March 16, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Bostontola

      That's cool with me if you believe that god uses evolution to create. I therefore conclude that you reject outright intelligent design, is that right?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Chad

      I dont believe that specific animals, at specific times materialized out of thin air and started eating grass....

      March 16, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • Science

      it is fun watching yoiu dance Chad

      Peace

      March 16, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad, you and I aren't that far apart, you believe in one god, I believe in zero gods, we differ by one. The other religions with a different god than yours, you differ by two gods.

      March 16, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • JMEF

      Bostontola
      Theistic evolution was created by Christian Apologists for christian apologists like Chad, so they do not have to rely on intelligent design, which is just to stupid even for Chad.

      March 16, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • Chad

      The difference between not believing in the God of Israel, and believing in the God of Israel is obviously a gigantic gap.

      You dont believe in any God
      I believe in the God of Israel, and since that belief is mutually exclusive with a belief in any other god, I have a reason to not believe in other gods.

      what is your reason for rejecting the existence of the God of Israel?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • clarity

      Chad – exactly who wrote the gospel accounts? They seem to be key in supporting the notion of the divinity of Christ. Is there any way we can prove exactly how many authors were involved?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad, I think I have expressed this before, I believe that our universe has developed by purely natural phenomena, life emerged as a result of far from equilibrium thermodynamics in the right environment, life then evolved and self aware intelligent beings emerged to observe it all. This natural progression is much more beautiful and satisfying to me than a supernatural explanation.

      March 16, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Dancing Creationists

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QguPS_iwgDg&w=640&h=360]

      March 16, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Chad

      "This natural progression is much more beautiful and satisfying to me than a supernatural explanation."

      =>the fact that you find that "more satisfying" doesnt make it real..

      On what basis do you reject the reality of the God of Israel?

      March 16, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • clarity

      Chad – exactly who wrote the gospel accounts? They seem to be key in supporting the notion of the divinity of Christ. Is there any way we can prove exactly how many authors were involved?

      March 16, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • JMEF

      Chad
      I do not deny the existence of the god of Isreal he resides in a book, just as Frodo exists in a book or Hamlet exists in a play, however none of them are real.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad, my position on your god is as described in the original post, the Emperor's New Clothes. I neither reject your god nor accept your god, I believe there is no god. I didn't say my belief is provable nor did I claim that my satisfaction and perception of beauty is proof of my beliefs. The relentless advance of science and my perception of the beauty of it is the basis of my beliefs.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Chad

      @Clarity,
      Matthew/Mark do not internally identify the author, other ancient sources do.
      John/Luke identify the authors as John and Luke.

      @JMEF,
      on what basis do you reject the reality of the God of Israel?

      March 16, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
    • Chad

      @Bostontola "The relentless advance of science and my perception of the beauty of it is the basis of my beliefs.
      "

      -> AGREED!!!!

      For most of scientific history, the universe was thought to have always existed, directly refuting the theistic claim that the universe had a beginning, and a creator.

      Then, a series of discoveries resulted in a complete transformation of thought, we now know that our universe has not always existed, rather it had a beginning, confirming the theistic claim:
      – 1929: Edwin Hubble discovers red shift (the stars and planets are all moving away from each other. The universe is expanding in all directions)
      – 1965: discovery of microwave cosmic background radiation (the echo's of the big bang)
      – 1998, two independent research groups studying distant supernovae were astonished to discover, against all expectations, that the current expansion of the universe is accelerating (Reiss 1998, Perlmutter 1999).
      – 2003: Borde, Guth, and Vilenkin's Past-Finite Universe proves our universe had a beginning

      Fine Tuning of the universe
      In the past 30 or 40 years, scientists have been astonished to find that the initial conditions of our universe were fine-tuned for the existence of building blocks of life. Constants such as gravitational constant have been found, the variation of which to even the smallest degree, would have rendered the universe utterly incapable of supporting life.

      "There is now broad agreement among physicists and cosmologists that the Universe is in several respects ‘fine-tuned' for life". However, he continues, "the conclusion is not so much that the Universe is fine-tuned for life; rather it is fine-tuned for the building blocks and environments that life requires." - Paul Davies

      "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the mas ses of the proton and the electron. ... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life - Stephen Hawking

      “As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.” - Professor Freeman J. Dyson of the Insti tute for Advanced Study in Princeton

      Now, neither Davies or Hawking is a believer in God. They both believe in fine tuning, they just posit natural reasons for it.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • Hindu from San Deigo

      Chad, Explain to me why you reject the Hindu god and I will explain to you why I reject the Christian.
      After all, we both believe in the scientific theory around the origin , we have that in common. We both are believers except I believe in brahma. Why is that not a plausible answer to anyone seeking this god?

      March 16, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad,
      As i said above, we aren't that far apart. You respect science, I respect anyone's beliefs. As I also said above, I have a view on god like Laplace, I have no need for that hypothesis.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • clarity

      Chad [ "@Clarity,
      Matthew/Mark do not internally identify the author, other ancient sources do.
      John/Luke identify the authors as John and Luke." ]

      And there has been considerable debate still on the certainty of all of these so-called authors, correct? Some have even speculated that there are fewer authors of the basic story than what the Bible represents, correct?

      March 16, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • JMEF

      Chad
      My reason and logic tell me that a 2000 year old story about the supernatural events surrounding an itinerant preacher that were not written down for years after his death by who knows, is not real. Should one of the supernatural events be replicated in a lab under scientific conditions, you may have a pedestal to stand on, until then , you don't know, neither does anybody else.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • Hindu from San Deigo

      Chad, For your edification here is some more details:Brahmā (Sanskrit: ब्रह्मा; IAST:Brahmā) is the Hindu god (deva) of creation and one of the Trimūrti, the others being Viṣņu and Śiva. According to the Brahmā Purāņa, he is the father of Manu, and from Manu all human beings are descended. In the Rāmāyaņa and the Mahābhārata, he is often referred to as the progenitor or great grandsire of all human beings. He is not to be confused with the Supreme Cosmic Spirit in Hindu Vedānta philosophy known as Brahman, which is genderless. Brahmā's wife is Saraswati. Saraswati is also known by names such as Sāvitri and Gāyatri, and has taken different forms throughout history. Saraswati is the Vedic Goddess, revered as Vedamāta, meaning Mother of the Vedas. Brahmā is often identified with Prajāpati, a Vedic deity. Being the husband of Saraswati or Vaac Devi (the Goddess of Speech), Brahma is also known as "Vaagish," meaning "Lord of Speech and Sound."

      March 16, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • clarity

      Some even claimed that the gospels were mere copies of earlier pagan stories – dressed up to lure more to Christianity. You would think that early Christians would have had some easy way to put down these charges. But all that several early apologists (i.e., Justin Martyr) could come up with was this notion of diabolical mimicry; that the devil had pre-planted the fake stories first before the "real" gospel stories. Plagiarism in reverse! How about that. My goodness.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • .

      "he difference between not believing in the God of Israel, and believing in the God of Israel is obviously a gigantic gap."
      No, it requires a giant leap of FAITH. That's all.
      "what is your reason for rejecting the existence of the God of Israel?"
      A person doesn't reject what one doesn't believe in. I do wish you'd quit using that word. It is inaccurate.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Answer

      Explain it to everyone Chad, as to why, you don't tell those "young earth creationists" that they're wrong. To believe in their version of the earth being roughly 6 to 10 thousand years old.

      Explain it everyone as to why your theistic evolution is right and yet you don't dare counter the YECs. You and them can not be both right about the age of the earth. One of you is wrong.

      So, is your theistic evolution, the one view that has your god in it's design really that weak? You can't argue with a YEC?

      March 16, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • clarity

      Yes, I guess it's time to haul out that marionette troupe – the Biblical Scholars of the Antiquities.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • Hindu from San Deigo

      Chad,As I mentioned earlier, we have a lot more in common that anyone else here. We both believe in scientific theories, we both have the ability to postulate our philosophical views. We both have the same goals, our destinies are the same. I request you to read about our philosophy( which I have pasted below), before you make any claim on yours.
      Hindu philosophy is traditionally divided into six āstika (Sanskrit: आस्तिक "orthodox") schools of thought,[1] or darśanam (दर्शनम्, "view"), which accept the Vedas as supreme revealed scriptures. Three other nāstika (नास्तिक "heterodox") schools don't draw upon the Vedas as the sole primary authoritative text, but may emphasise other traditions of thought. The āstika schools are:
      Samkhya, an atheistic and strongly dualist theoretical exposition of consciousness and matter.
      Yoga, a school emphasising meditation, contemplation and liberation.
      Nyaya or logic, explores sources of knowledge. Nyāya Sūtras.
      Vaisheshika, an empiricist school of atomism
      Mimāṃsā, an anti-ascetic and anti-mysticist school of orthopraxy
      Vedanta, the last segment of knowledge in the Vedas, or the 'Jnan' (knowledge) 'Kanda' (section). Vedanta came to be the dominant current of Hinduism in the post-medieval period.

      March 16, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • Chad

      " I have a view on god like Laplace, I have no need for that hypothesis."
      =>well, you actually do. Naturalism cant explain the origin of the universe, the fact that the universe obeys laws, or the empty tomb..

      March 16, 2013 at 5:31 pm |
    • Chad

      @JMEF "My reason and logic tell me that a 2000 year old story about the supernatural events surrounding an itinerant preacher that were not written down for years after his death by who knows, is not real"

      =>reason and logic had nothing to do with it, right? One would have had to have investigated the claims of Christianity in order to make that claim.

      What you did was just reject the notion outright, on the basis of nothing..

      March 16, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Chad, you disgusting liar, you have no idea if "naturalism" can explain the origin of the universe or not. We simply don't have the brain capability to make that determination. At one time, "naturalism" (as you mean it) couldn't explain the motion of the planets, or the flight of bumblebees. Naturalism still doesn't explain gravity.

      Besides, just because a mechanism cannot be explained by current scientific methods does not mean a big invisible and undetectable sky wizard did it with magic spellz. Are you really so fvcking stupid that you don't get this concept? Your theory isn't automatically right just because another theory can't explain it. Science just has more rigorous methods for making its determination than "I want it to be the way I learned it and I want it to be a magic sky daddy who cares about me." Your reasoning isn't even reasoning, much less cogent.

      March 16, 2013 at 5:38 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Science will eventually explain how the universe came to be. The word "yet" is the only qualifier, Chard. You don't have any evidence that a god exists at all. If you did, the world would be beating a path to your door. Get over yourself.

      March 16, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • Chad

      @Tom, Tom the other one "our destinies are the same. I request you to read about our philosophy( which I have pasted below), before you make any claim on yours."

      =>The part that gave you away @tom was the "our destinies are the same"
      because you see, if you had been a real Hindu, instead of just a sock puppet, you would have realized that a Hindu believes in reincarnation and enlightenment. Christians have a diametrically opposed belief system.

      so, you see @tom, a real Hindu would never say "our destinies are the same" to a Christian..

      March 16, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • The real Tom

      What I really wonder is this, Chard: why are you so hot to claim a god exists when it seems you are a completely bloodless theoretician concerning it? You might as well be arguing about what kind of wood your desk is made of.

      Who would care about the sort of being you seem to insist is the author of the universe, when you don't seem to?

      March 16, 2013 at 5:44 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I haven't posted on this thread, Chad, and I don't recognize the quote. Which post(s) are you attributing to me?

      March 16, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Chard: "makes one wonder, what so terrifies you about acknowledging that which leading scientists of our age acknowledge?"

      Nothing "terrifies" me, you moron. And not all scientists believe what you do or what other scientists do. Stop pretending there's agreement among all scientists about the origins of the universe, you smarmy goat.

      March 16, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Chad is that you stuck on MARS LOL

      NASA Rover Finds Conditions Once Suited for Ancient Life On Mars

      Mar. 12, 2013 — An analysis of a rock sample collected by NASA's Curiosity rover shows ancient Mars could have
      supported living microbes.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130312131746.htm

      Chad gravity does win as in splat goes a fairy ! Peace

      Curtains Down for the Black Hole Firewall Paradox: Making Gravity Safe for Einstein Again

      Mar. 6, 2013 — Research by scientists at the University of York has revealed new insights into the life and death of black holes. Their findings dispel the so-called firewall paradox which shocked the physics community when it was announced in 2012 since its predictions about large black holes contradicted Einstein's crowning achievement - the theory of general relativity. Those results suggested that anyone falling into a black hole would be burned up as they crossed its edge - the so-called event horizon.

      March 16, 2013 at 5:59 pm |
    • Science

      Oops source for splat goes a fairy......... where is yours chad ?............................ hopefully it's not hte bible ?

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130306084151.htm

      March 16, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
    • JMEF

      Chad
      That is right, as you have rejected every other god man has created, so what, get over yourself. Believe what you want too why you want too, reject what you want too for what ever reason you want too and leave the rest of humanity to do the same, arrogant hypocrite.

      March 16, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I'm curious, Chad. Do you sense terror in the leading scientists of our age?

      March 16, 2013 at 6:05 pm |
    • Science

      Thought Chad would of correct me by NOW................... suppose to be the not hte..................boy Chad you missed that one OK.

      Peace

      March 16, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
    • chad is a poe

      sad, You have the audacity to deny my religious belief? Really? What makes you think you are a Christian? There is nothing in these post that indicate you are one.

      March 16, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
    • %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

      Chad are you a POE ???

      March 16, 2013 at 8:26 pm |
    • Chad

      @Science,
      ah... I believe in Mars, and I believe in black holes..

      what were you attempting to do with those posts? You wouldnt have been attempting to portray me as not believing in such things, were you?

      I sure you had a point in mind 🙂

      March 16, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Don't you think you have a few questions to answer, Chad? I mean, I know that your wisdom is far above mine, but don't you have some more important issues to be writing about?

      March 16, 2013 at 11:03 pm |
    • ..

      While the Creation-evolution controversy has seen much debate in the US and other countries, it has not been a significant issue in India, with its majority-Hindu population.[53][54] Hindus are among many faiths that have expressed apprehension about efforts to teach Christian creationism in public schools in the US.[55] One objection to the teaching of creationism based on the religious texts of a particular faith is that in a pluralistic society this can result in the imposition of one religion.[56]
      [edit]

      March 17, 2013 at 2:01 am |
    • Wysiwyg.

      When I understand the motive , your intent becomes more transparent. Hans Christian Anderson would be delighted at the marvelous references being made by the ignoramus.

      March 17, 2013 at 2:14 am |
  15. Atheist, me?

    Rainer
    It should now be obvious to you how lost you are as a Christian to resort to name-calling.
    If you do not love Jews, Roman Catholics and Atheists as yourself then you do not know God!
    Read 1John 1&2 carefully and repent.
    I love you as myself. Learn to love others as yourself and show them compassion and respect.

    March 16, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      I like everybody but I don't like everybody's religion.

      The only people which I don't like are the Antichrist, stubbborn heretics and stubborn criminals.

      Christianity is the supreme faith.

      March 16, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • End Religion

      "Time itself is not going to have a beginning, strictly speaking. There is no moment in time when time itself does not exist. Time can have a minimum value, just like when you come to a complete stop, and thus can no longer slow down. Just as there’s no speed slower than immobility, there’s no time earlier than the earliest value of time. Time, therefore, cannot be created, because there has never been any time when time did not already exist. And the same goes for the material universe, of which time is only one ordered dimension. The material universe is uncaused because even though there’s a minimum value for time, there has never been a time when the material universe did not already exist, and therefore no opportunity for anything else to cause it." – Deacon Duncan

      March 16, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • Atheist, me?

      Rainer
      Heretics, criminals and Anti Christ is long list to which your name might be added.
      You have no idea what the parable of the Good Samaritan means, do u?

      March 16, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
  16. Over 40,000 denominations of insanity

    Some, like this idiot Rainer Braendlein, think the Pope has Anti-Christ-like qualities.

    In the U.S. recently we learned of the head of LCMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    One sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    Some believe that celibacy is appropriate for certain people, or for certain positions. It's ridiculous. Celibacy is unnatural and will continue to cause problems for the religious institutions that employ it.

    Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but don't understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease. Realistically, many abortions could be avoided if a morning-after pill were not viewed as such an evil option. Many of these same people bring children into the world at a high pace, and then would prefer that the rest of society take over and educate their children in their particular brand of religion when they don't plan well.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create divisions and more extremism as it goes.

    =================================================
    Has anything improved with Christianity since 200+ years ago?

    Thomas Jefferson, POTUS #3 (from Notes on the State of Virginia):

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    James Madison, POTUS #4, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights (from A Memorial and Remonstrance delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785):

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    John Adams, POTUS #2 (in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 09/03/1816):

    I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history.

    Ben Franklin (from a letter to The London Packet, 3 June 1772):

    If we look back into history for the character of present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practised it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England, blamed persecution in the Roman church, but practised it against the Puritans: these found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England.

    Thomas Paine (from The Age of Reason):

    All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

    March 16, 2013 at 12:20 pm |

    • ..

      March 16, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
  17. Samaritan memories

    I recall this woman from Samaria who bargained with Jesus Christ and came out ahead. Jesus told her 'No', he would not heal her daughter because he came to heal Israel only. She then said "Even dogs are allowed crumbs from the masters table". In that hour, her daughter was healed.
    This is an accounting of the true Jesus Christ your "christian" leaders have twisted into a buddy for your own salvation. He taught that you don't get to keep it unless you give it away. That sufficient for each day is it's own badness. NOT a burning hellfire as they say.

    March 16, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • Roger that

      Your point is that Jesus would not heal the woman's daughter until the woman gave Jesus a guilt trip?

      March 16, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Akira

      Oh, cut the garbage, 'Samaritan'. You don't have any more insights into Christianity than any other Christian. It's just your opinion. That's all.

      March 16, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
  18. Rainer Braendlein

    Frederic the Great, King of Pruzzia, against the Roman Catholic Church (Frederic the Great was the leading rationalist of all times; but don't make a mistake: Frederic nevertheless believed in the Father and the Son and the Spirit, the Triune God.)

    (Antimachiavel, Chapter 11, by Frederic the Great, King of Pruzzia, Promoter of Enlightenment)

    (the book “Antimachiavel” refers to Machiavelli’s book “The Prince”, and is a refutation of “The Prince”)

    I have always found it very strange that these who call themselves successors of the apostles, I mean some poor men – preachers of humility and repentance – should possess great wealth, wallow in luxery, and fill posts more proper to satisfy the vanity of the age and the ostentation of the great than to occupy men who must meditate on the nothingness of human life and on the quest for salvation. However, the clergy of the Roman church is extremly rich. Bishops hold the rank of sovereign princes, and the temporal and spiritual power of the first bishop of Christendom renders him somehow the arbiter of kings(“arbiter of kings” means that the pope was higher than the Emperor, and thus the actual temporal ruler of the whole world) and the fourth person of the Divinity (“person of Divinity” means that the pope really presumes to be on a level with God).

    (Catholic) Clergymen and theologians separate the attributes of the body from those of the soul more scrupulously than anyone else, but their arguments might better be applied to the subject of their ambition. You, they could be told, whose ministry is restricted to the spiritual realm, how can you have so grossly confused it with the temporal? You who so subtly employ the distinguo when it comes to the mind, which you do not understand at all, and to matter, which you understand very little, how does it come that you reject these distinctions when it comes to your interest? It is because these gentlemen worry very little about the unintelligible jargon that they spout out and very much about the great revenues that they take in. It is because their fashion of reasoning must conform to orthodoxy and their fashion of action to their passions; and that the tangible objects of nature are as dominant over their intellect as the real happiness of this life is over the ideal happiness of the next world.

    The astonishing power of clergymen as well as everything which regards their temporal government is the subject of this chapter.

    Machiavelli finds that ecclesiastical princes are very happy because they have to fear neither the rebellion of their subjects nor the ambition of their neighbours (neighbouring princes). The respectable and impressive name of the Divinity shelters them from whatever could oppose their interest and greatness. The princes who attack them would fear the fate of T-itans (T-itans were thrown into the Tartarus, a kind of abyss, by the Greek god Zeus; the Catholic equivalent of Zeus is the pope) and the people who disobey them that of the sacrilegious. The pious policy of this kind of sovereign aims at persuading the world of what Despreaux expresses so well in the verse:

    “He who loves not Cotin loves neither God nor king.”

    What is strange is that these princes find enough credulous dupes who adhere blindly to whatever they want them to believe. It is certain, however, that no country swarms with more beggars than one run by priests. There one can see a touching picture of all human miseries, not of those poor attrackted by the alms of sovereigns, or of those insects who attach themselves to the reach, but of starving beggars deprived of necessities by the “charity” of their bishops so as to prevent them from becoming corrupted by affluence.

    It is undoubtly upon the laws of Sparta where money was prohibited that the principles of these ecclesiastical governments are founded, with the difference that the prelates reserve for themselves the use of the wealth of which they most devoutly despoil their subjects. Blessed, they say, are the poor, for they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven! And since they want everybody to be saved, they make sure that everyone is poor. Oh, ecclesiastical piety, is there anything that escapes your wise foresight?

    Nothing should be more edifying than the story of the heads of the church or vicars of Jesus Christ. One expects to find examples of irreproachable und saintly morals there. However, it is just the contrary. There are only obscenities, abominations, and sources of scandal; and one cannot read the lifes of the popes without detesting their cruelty and perfidy.

    One sees there their immense ambition to augment their temporal power, their sordid avarice in transfering great wealth unjustly and dishonestly to their families in order to enrich their nephews, mistresses, or bast-ards.

    Those who reflect insufficiently find it peculiar that people suffer the oppression of this kind of sovereign with docility and patience, that they do not open their eyes to the vices and excesses of the clergymen who degrade them, and that they endure from a head that is shorn what they wold not suffer from a head crowned with laurels. This phenomenon appears less strange to those who know the power of superst-ition upon idiots and of fanaticism on the human mind. They know that religion is an old machine that will never wear out and that has always been used to insure the fidelity of people and put a brake on the restlessness of human reason. They knew that error can blind the most penetrating men and that there is nothing more triumphant than the policy of those who put heaven and hell, God and the devil into play in order to attain their designs. Even the true religion itself, the purest source of all our good, is most deplorably abused and often becomes the origin and principle of all our misfortunes.

    The author (Machiavelli) most judiciously notes what contributed to the elevation of the Holy See. Hee attributes it principally to the able conduct of Alexander VI, a pontiff who pushed cruelty to the extreme and who knew no justice but perfidy. One could not thus confuse the product of the ambition of this pontiff with the work of Divinity. Heaven could not have played any direct part in the elevation of this temporal greatness, which is only the work of a very vicious and depraved man. One could thus do no better than to distinguish carefully among clergy men betweeen the mark of God when they announce the divine orders and the corrupt man when they are thinking only of satisfying their passions.

    The eulogy of Leo X concludes this chapter, but his eulogy doesn’t carry much wight since Machiavelli was the contemporary of this pope. Any praise by a subject to his master or by an author to a prince appears, what ever one may say, as very close to flattery. Our life can only be judged by posterity, which judges without passions or interest. Machiavelli should have been the last to make an attempt at flattery, for he was not a competent judge of true merit, not even knowing what virtue was; and I don’t know if it is better to have been praised than blamed by him. I leave this question for the reader to judge.

    http://www.confessingchurch.worpdress.com

    March 16, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • End Religion

      "Abrahamic Monotheism is an evolutionary coping mechanism that has outlived its purpose and is now akin to an infected appendix" – Mason

      March 16, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
  19. Universe

    Quran (Islamic Scripture)

    “Mention in the scripture Mary. She isolated herself from her family, into an eastern location.” [19:16]

    “While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being.”

    She said, "I seek refuge in the Most Gracious, that you may be righteous."

    He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."

    She said, "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste."

    He said, "Thus said your Lord, `It is easy for Me. We will render him a sign for the people, and mercy from us. This is a predestined matter.' "

    When she bore him, she isolated herself to a faraway place.

    The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "(I am so ashamed;) I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten."

    (The infant) called her from beneath her, saying, "Do not grieve. Your Lord has provided you with a stream.

    "If you shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will drop ripe dates for you.*

    "Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, `I have made a vow of silence, [to the Most Gracious]*; I am not talking today to anyone.' "

    She came to her family, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have committed something that is totally unexpected.

    "O descendant of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste."

    She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?"

    (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of God. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet.

    "He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat) for as long as I live.

    "I am to honor my mother; He did not make me a disobedient rebel.

    "And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected."

    “That was Jesus, the son of Mary, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt.”

    “It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.”

    Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to visit whyIslam org website.

    March 16, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • End Religion

      "Answering questions about misunderstood phenomena by claiming absolute knowledge of magic forces at work is great for providing superficially satisfying answers. It is also great for experiencing unwavering confidence about those superficial answers. It has no proven track record at all when it comes to finding answers that are reliable in the long term." – Russell Glasser

      March 16, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      Muhammad was a forerunner of the Antichrist. Muhammad created a pseudo-world and a pseudo-religion in the East while the pope and Charles the Great created a pseude-religion together with a pseudo-world in the West. Yet, Muhammad, the popes and the caliphs did not work with the same power and perfection like the Antichrist. During their reign at least small remains of the True Christian Church where there, but under the reign of the Antichrist you will find the Truth at nearly no more place and no more time, a perfect antichristian pseudo-univers, icecold like the Mars.

      March 16, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
  20. History of drugs

    Speaking of "unkown" bible writers, Paul had this to say about druggery: It is a "work of the flesh" just as drunkeness and fornication are listed along with pharmakeia.
    Today's christian leaders keep this practice of using of mind-altering drugs being banned among early christians a secret. All modern translations of the bible twist the meaning of pharmakeia into the practice of sorcery, withcraft, or spiritism instead of telling you like it is.
    "Speak consolingly to depressed souls" commanded Jesus Christ of his early followers, NONE of whom turned to pagan greek pharmacy for relief.

    March 16, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • Akira

      Another Answerman post under yet a different handle. Yawn.

      March 16, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.