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March 18th, 2013
10:39 AM ET

Pope Francis energizes world's Catholics

(CNN)–CNN's Ben Wedeman looks at how the personable character of Pope Francis is energizing Catholics around the world.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Catholic Church • Pope Francis • Vatican

soundoff (389 Responses)
  1. The Demon Deacon

    Bill Deacon
    Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist. Has anyone seen a post from Billy bit ching about the media for putting out positive stories about Franky? The conspiracy theory only works one way I guess, poor paranoid deacon that he is.

    March 18, 2013 at 11:55 am |
  2. Jesus quotes

    "These people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far removed from me."
    "If they truly loved me, they would obey my commands."

    March 18, 2013 at 11:52 am |
    • Roger

      "These people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far removed from me."

      If this is true, then how did the missionary position become so popular?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:56 am |
  3. @US TROOPS

    Those of you serving in the US MILITARY and calling yourselves "Muslim" are no-such thing. You have sided with the enemies of your own people and of your own God. You are RENEGADES and will be executed if you continue against Allah!

    March 18, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • meifumado

      Those of you following Islam ( or any religion ) you are delusional and need help.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
    • /*\

      @@. Dooouchebag. Allah sucks goats.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
  4. each vote counts

    You claim every vote counts, and then, even though you do not believe in God, vote for those who do. You speak out of the side of your neck.
    If you do not believe in God, you have no business voting for those who do. Ea. time you do, you call yourself a liar.

    March 18, 2013 at 11:45 am |
    • Luv

      You sound just as bad as the religious fanatics you profess to hate.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • The real Tom

      @each stupid post: Name a viable candidate for office who professes to be a nonbeliever. Go ahead. I'll wait.

      Do you sit on your thumbs on every election day because you don't find any candidate to be perfect?

      Never mind. You're not old enough to vote.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:52 am |
    • Kee

      There has never been a Lutheran, Pentecostal, or Latter Day Saint president. Or an atheist president. Or a Buddhist, Hindu or Jewish president.

      Come on Lutherans, Pentecostals, Latter Day Saints, atheists, Buddhists, Hindus and Jews! Stop being liars and vote for yourself!

      March 18, 2013 at 11:58 am |
    • End Religion

      Kee, you're either 14 years old or the dimmest bulb in the pack. Hopefully not both...

      March 18, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • Kee

      I'm responding to the claim that those who don't believe in God should only vote for people who don't believe in God.

      So if there are no godless candidates, don't vote?

      March 18, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
  5. End Religion

    Maybe this new Pope can help Chad find credible evidence for god. While he's at it, maybe he can help Chad figure out why there's ZERO evidence of miracle Jeebus. Curious thing, that. Could it be that the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has never been disproved, therefore He is the Risen One True Noodly God, therefore Chad's pathetic weakling medieval goat herder god could never exist? Sounds plausible to me!

    March 18, 2013 at 11:44 am |
    • Kee

      I trust Jesus Christ.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:50 am |
    • End Religion

      Oh, Kee, we know that about you. It is the quality of the best mark that any con man looks for. A total hick who believes anything. This is why religion thrives in you.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:59 am |
    • Kee

      What do you think the con is? I'm actually not a hick. I am a professional in my career. I have a very skeptical nature... I needed evidence before I would trust in God. And I got it. So I know believe.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Pastafirian

      End
      The FSM appeared to me on Saturday, touched me with his noodly appendage and warned me not to drink the green beer, a truly benevolent God.
      RAmen

      March 18, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of SEVERE mental illness

      I am a professional in my career. ................>>> So I know believe<<<.
      .
      Professional car washer amigo?

      March 18, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
    • Kee

      @ Professional car washer amigo?

      No, when I wash my car there are always little soap spots left behind.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • End Religion

      Kee, we've been through this. You are not skeptical or you wouldn't believe in god. There is no evidence. You suffered a delusion or events you don't understand and attributed it, without evidence, to god. That's not skepticism, that's being a rube.

      The con is that not only does a god exist but it has very specific attributes, often attributes similar to one's own but "more powerful". If attend any religious service, read any religious books, donate to a religious cause, give any time or money whatsoever to religion, then you've been suckered. You do not need religion to be a nice person or to donate time/money to causes.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • Which God?

      Kee, I think you are lying to yourself.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
    • Kee

      @end religion
      I actually do have a skeptical nature. There are many people with sound minds that believe in God. Belief or disbelief in God is not a good determination of whether a person is suffering from delusions. I place my life in people's hands that believe in God everyday (pilots, other automobile drivers, police officers, bosses, family).

      But, most importantly, I have received so much love and help from people that believe in God. I can not honestly say that these people are just suffering from a delusion.

      Even when I could not believe in God, I had to admit that these people were just like me.

      My life today has meaning, purpose and direction. I do attend religious services. The rituals, confessions and sacraments are very helpful to me. I do read religious and spiritual literature. I donate money to causes that aid disaster victims, people in need and those suffering from unfortunate circu.mstances.

      I am not a su.cker. Everything I have is a gift from God. I have been blessed, so I try to be a blessing to others today.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • End Religion

      It's cool, Kee. There's room for all of us. Even the religious suckers!

      March 18, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
  6. Hell god

    That the God of the bible is an extortionist is a lie. No loving father would even think of allowing the burning of his own children forever.
    Really, no child would even think of allowing their own pet puppy to be burned alive, a crime.
    Yet the vast majority of "christians" believe in this hellgod. Even America's "christian" leaders Bush and Obama proclaim God is an extortionist!

    March 18, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • Luv

      God has a plan of salvation for his whole creation; not just for the few religious people that insist that their way is right.

      Nobody has to burn in hell forever, unless that is what they desire.

      God is greater and more generous than even the best who proclaim to know and trust in God.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:42 am |
    • Saraswati

      To be fair, not all Christians believe non-believers in their faith go to hell:

      http://www.pewforum.org/many-americans-say-other-faiths-can-lead-to-eternal-life.aspx

      March 18, 2013 at 11:42 am |
    • End Religion

      hey phil, you come out of the closet yet?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:45 am |
  7. James T

    Why have I not energized?

    March 18, 2013 at 11:35 am |
    • Scotty

      Im giving it all she's got Captain!

      March 18, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • Bones

      I'm just a doctor, Jim.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • Red Shirted Away Team Member

      Oh no, I'm going to die!

      March 18, 2013 at 11:46 am |
  8. Ameri-muslim

    If you call yourself a "Muslim" and side with the US Military invading holy lands, you, sir, are nothing more than a renegade Muslim and should be shot.

    March 18, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • Akira

      My, you are full of Christian charity for your fellow man, aren't you?
      Same shit, different handle.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:34 am |
    • meifumado

      Islams prophet was a illiterate pedophile warlord who plagiarized the three religions of the area so he could invent his own religion in order to control all the people he conquered.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:41 am |
  9. President Evo

    STOP voting for christian leaders! Why do you athiests and non-believers continue to vote for men of the hellgod? Vote for men of science! Sheesh!

    March 18, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • Luv

      A lot of great scientists believe in God.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • NASA Scientists

      "Although NASA does not provide spiritual resources, religious objects—crosses, Bibles, icons, prayer cards—are among the most common personal items taken into space,"

      http://blog.chron.com/believeitornot/2011/07/exploring-the-heavens-christian-astronauts-reflect-on-their-creator/

      March 18, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • Akira

      And again.
      Do you vote, President Evo? Or was the last time you voted in third grade, in a mock-up Presidential election?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • The real Tom

      "A lot of great scientists believe in God."

      And a lot don't. You have a point?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • Luv

      My point is, if we start to "vote for men of science" we will still have a lot of religious leaders. Science isn't just for those who reject God. Believers in God trust and use science, too.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:35 am |
    • Dean

      Fewer and fewer scientists believe in the bible accounts of abiogenesis and just about anything else in that book of myths and obvious self-contradictions.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • Saraswati

      Two party system.
      Non-theists too small a group to dominate either major party.
      Populace too ignorant to realize the inst itutional changes required to have anything other than a two party system.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:39 am |
  10. Science is Fun

    Mars Evolution: Could Life Have Appeared On Red Planet Before Earth?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/mars-evolution-life-before-earth_n_2867246.html?utm_hp_ref=science

    March 18, 2013 at 11:24 am |
  11. Bible

    "I was a sinner when I was born and sinned from the moment my mother concieved me."- Psalm 51
    All sin and fall short. "The wages sin pays is death." ALL are guilty, especially children.

    March 18, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • Luv

      All we need to do to earn Jesus' forgiveness is to sin.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • meifumado

      Your insane.

      We are all born atheists.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • Luv

      We are all born helpless dependent on other people.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:33 am |
  12. Science for President!

    How much longer will you non-believers continue to vote for men claiming to believe in a fairytale hellgod?
    We need leaders who base their decisions on science RATHER than swearing on a wolfgod book. Until non-believers STOP voting for christian leaders like Bush and Obama, America will continue to crumble.

    March 18, 2013 at 11:21 am |
    • The real Tom

      Poe.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • Akira

      Answerman again. Notice the use of hellgod.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:26 am |
  13. The Koran

    If you support the military invasion of holy lands of Islam, you are not a Muslim. (duh)

    March 18, 2013 at 11:16 am |
    • Akira

      Afghanistan is a Muslim Holy Land?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • ME II

      Did not Muhammad himself do just that?
      "The Muslim army entered Mecca on Monday, December 11, 629 (18th of Ramadan 8 hijrah).[7] The entry was peaceful and bloodless entry on three sectors except for that of Khalid’s column. "

      March 18, 2013 at 11:27 am |
  14. The Koran

    Even Americans view those who side with the enemy as "Benedict Arnolds" who are sometimes executed for joining forces with the enemy.
    And, so it is how faithful Muslims view members of their own religion that join forces with foregn nations invading holy lands of theirs. There is simply no-such thing as an American Muslim.

    March 18, 2013 at 11:12 am |
    • Akira

      Lol. Sure there is. You just don't want to see any other worldview other than your own.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • meifumado

      There is no such thing as a moderate muslim.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:31 am |
  15. Science is Fun

    Richard Feynman Experiment Recreated, 'Confirms Quantum Mechanics,' Physicist Says

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/17/physicist-richard-feynman-thought-experiment_n_2883913.html?utm_hp_ref=science

    March 18, 2013 at 11:12 am |
  16. The Koran

    "Slay them [invading infidels of holy lands] wherever you find them."
    Also, the Koran describes Muslims who join forces with invaders of holy lands "Renegades", and commands true Muslims to deal with renegades "harshly" when caught.

    March 18, 2013 at 11:06 am |
    • End Religion

      What could be more loving than that?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • SoCal

      So sad. The religion of peace? While Christians speak of forgiveness and love, Muslims speak of slaying non-muslims and threatening those within their own faith.

      March 18, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
  17. On Mary

    Mary is not the mother of God and was denied even by her own son, Jesus Christ, who never healed anyone from his hometown...not even his own mother.

    March 18, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • End Religion

      I thought Jesus sprang from a clam shell... or is that some other myth. They're all so similar I get lost sometimes.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • Jen

      @end religion

      You just aren't very funny or clever today. Just kind of a jerk. Please go away.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • End Religion

      Jen, I am not very funny or clever, and I'm a jerk every day. I think I'll stick around. How about you?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:57 am |
  18. On Mary

    "Jesus! Your mother and brothers are outside and would like to talk to you." said Jesus' desciples. "Who really is my mother and who really are my brothers?" was Jesus Christ's reply.
    "YOU are my mothers and my brothers" explained Jesus, who had already made it clear that he came NOT to hold dysfunctional families together, but to divide them. (Matt. 10:34-36)
    Jesus called the end times "The conclusion of this system of things" we currently live under. For this dysfunctional system to end, the dysfunctional family unit our system is based on must fall.
    For example, this earth currently produces 3-5 times more food than needed to sustain human life, yet millions starve b/c of a dysfunctional food distribution system whereby overly obese peoples deep in debt get most of the food. We need a new system, the one promised by Jesus Christ with him being the distributor, not US.

    March 18, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • Akira

      Writing this down as an example of another one of Philip Douglas Answerman's many handles.
      One can tell it's him by his obsession with obesity. Next up: pharmaceuticals. Predictable.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • Truth

      Talk about an obsession... you are still going around claiming everyone is Phillip Douglas?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • The real Tom

      Truth, why? Are you one of the multiple personalities? Because if not, why do you care?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:11 am |
    • Truth

      I'm just going to sit back and wait for her claim that she can read our IP addresses.She can't prove it.
      She'll just ask us to have faith in this special power of hers.

      BBWhahahahaha 🙂

      March 18, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • The real Tom

      Uh huh. And I'm sure you always post under "Truth," right? Right?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • Akira

      Who writes BBWhahahahaha like this?
      Oh, yeah, lol?? does.
      Also, I am not claiming everyone is PD; just PD himself.
      I don't care if you believe me or not. That's immaterial.
      Oh, and bite me.
      Must be afraid I'll start tracking your troll ass.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • BBWhahahahaha

      I saw someone post this, and was wondering if that was a personal jab... BBW?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:27 am |
  19. End Religion

    One of my favorite pastimes during the Holiday season is to go around to the various nativity scenes and draw a Groucho Marx mustache and eyebrows on all the li'l baby Jeebus. I then move their arm up toward their tiny mouth and insert a cigar. It makes for such a dear photo! I can send you one next season if you post your address.

    March 18, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Topher

      Disgusting.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:12 am |
    • The real Tom

      Gopher is so gullible.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • Billy

      LMAO.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Topher, agreed, but I think it was a joke(or something else) as indicated by the address request.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • Topher

      Saraswati

      If it was a joke, there was nothing funny about it.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:16 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Topher, I never said it was funny, though I guess to some it was. I have no respect for vandalism and don't find it a laughing matter, but then I don't get the Three Stooges either.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • Jen

      What a jerk.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • The real Tom

      I don't think there's anything loving about your version of god, either, Gopher, so the lesson there is: to each his own.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Topher

      No, there's nothing loving at all about God taking the punishment you deserve unto death simply because He loves you.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • The real Tom

      There's nothing loving about a god who sends his creations to roast eternally on a spit if they don't believe in some fairy that never shows its face.

      Don't even bother, Gopher. You're so dumb you can't even figure out when someone is joking. Instead, you get your panties in a bunch, which is much funnier than the original joke.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • Topher

      So yu don't like justice.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • The real Tom

      I like justice just fine. I just don't like you or your belief system.

      Good thing this is a free country and your views aren't law.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      I hardly think justice is burning in hell for eternity simply for being unconvinced by a lack of evidence.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:34 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Topher

      "So yu don't like justice."

      Even infants have a sense of what is just and what is fair:

      http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=baby-justice

      This is what it is to be human, not Christian.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • Topher

      ME II

      " I hardly think justice is burning in hell for eternity simply for being unconvinced by a lack of evidence."

      Justice is being punished for breaking the laws. Are you guilty of that?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:38 am |
    • The real Tom

      What laws? If I break the laws of this country, there are consequences, because those laws are in place to protect the rights of others. If I infringe on those rights and thereby harm someone else, justice would be to force me to make rest itution and/or to be punished.

      Who am I hurting by not believing your god exists?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:41 am |
    • The real Tom

      Why is it, Gopher, that no one who's had a near-death experience has ever reported seeing a vision of hell?

      Do only believers have NDEs?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:43 am |
    • Topher

      Saraswati

      "Even infants have a sense of what is just and what is fair:"

      I agree with you. And so does the Bible. We don't have to be taught these things are wrong. God's law is written on our heart.

      "This is what it is to be human, not Christian."

      Agree again. We have a conscience, which means "with knowledge." And the Bible says because we have this, we are without excuse.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:45 am |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      "Justice is being punished for breaking the laws. Are you guilty of that?"

      Laws do not equal justice. And eternal sentences for finite crimes is not justice, no matter which law is broken.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:45 am |
    • The real Tom

      Oh, baloney. It's not god who's implanted these morals, Gopher. There's no evidence that atheists are less moral than believers and there's no proof that a sense of right and wrong come from anything but our own evolution.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • Keeping It Real

      Topher,

      su·per·sti·tion
      /ˌso͞opərˈstiSHən/
      Noun

      - Excessively credulous belief in and reverence for supernatural beings.
      - A widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice...

      March 18, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • Topher

      The real Tom

      "What laws?"

      God's standard, and what you will be judged by, is the 10 Commandments.

      "If I break the laws of this country, there are consequences, because those laws are in place to protect the rights of others. If I infringe on those rights and thereby harm someone else, justice would be to force me to make rest itution and/or to be punished."

      You don't necessarily have to harm someone else when you break the law.

      "Who am I hurting by not believing your god exists?"

      Maybe no one. But maybe your child who won't believe because you didn't. Or a parent. You never know.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:50 am |
    • End Religion

      "You're so dumb you can't even figure out when someone is joking. Instead, you get your panties in a bunch, which is much funnier than the original joke."

      I think Tom is on to something...

      March 18, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • gary

      Nativity scene touch up – I love it! For example, making the donkey more anatomically correct. You just need an old baseball bat.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Topher

      ME II

      "Laws do not equal justice. And eternal sentences for finite crimes is not justice, no matter which law is broken."

      It's only finite when it's between two people because we are also finite. But when the crime is against someone who is infinite, then the crime is infinite and the punishment will be justly infinite.

      If I lie to a child, nothing happens. If I lie to my wife, I'll be sleeping on the couch. If I lie to my boss I'll be fired. If I lie to the president, I'll be jailed or even put to death. Notice how the crime remains the same, but the punishment increases as the one whom the crime was against increased in stature. So how much more so should the punishment be when it's against a holy and infinite being?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • The real Tom

      I call bullish!t, Gopher. There's no evidence that non-belief in a god has any effect whatsoever on anyone. None.

      You can believe some giant fairy is going to send people to eternal punishment for not believing, but you believe the earth is only a few thousand years old, too, so I don't put any value in any of your idiotic pronouncements.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • The real Tom

      " If I lie to the president, I'll be jailed or even put to death."

      And you wonder why you are a joke here.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • Damocles

      @ER

      I'm half tempted to post my address just to see one of those pics.

      @topher

      See, it's this retarded claptrap about justice that just grates on my nerves like so many millions of fingernails being dragged across the worlds biggest chalkboard. Your deity breaks every one of its own rules and you just go 'oh, but it's justice, oh it's mysterious ways, oh its ways aren't our ways.' What infinite thing would give two sh!ts what finite beings do? What loving, merciful, blah, blah, blah thing would only come up with murder and mayhem as the right answer?

      March 18, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • Topher

      That's fine. No one is forcing you to believe anything.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • Topher

      The real Tom

      "And you wonder why you are a joke here."

      You don't believe in treason, either?

      March 18, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Damocles

      @topher

      And there you go, it took you all of 2 1/2 seconds to break a rule. Lying to a child bears no consequences? You truly are as dense as concrete pudding.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • The real Tom

      You don't believe in education, do you, Gopher?

      It shows.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • The real Tom

      It's hard to believe that someone like Gopher made it through college. It must have been some thumper insti tution.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      "But when the crime is against someone who is infinite, then the crime is infinite and the punishment will be justly infinite."

      The crime itself is finite regardless of time span of existence of the victim. Stealing from a 20 year old is just as wrong as stealing from an 80 year old.

      "If I lie to a child, nothing happens. If I lie to my wife, I'll be sleeping on the couch. If I lie to my boss I'll be fired. If I lie to the president, I'll be jailed or even put to death."

      Not according to your "laws"... any lie is eternal damnation, is it not?

      p.s. There is no "law" against lying per se to the President, a court of law, police, congress, perhaps, but not the President... and being put to death for such is just ridiculous.
      If a lie is considered treasonous, then it is a crime.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Lying to the president = treason. Really, I can't stop laughing.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
    • Topher

      Damocles

      "Lying to a child bears no consequences? You truly are as dense as concrete pudding."

      First of all, ad hominem fallacy. Second, I didn't say that. I said it would result in little-to-no punishment for the criminal.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
    • Damocles

      @topher

      Topher, meet your quote, topher's quote, meet topher. You two make a gawdawful couple: If I lie to a child, nothing happens.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • Topher

      ME II

      "The crime itself is finite regardless of time span of existence of the victim. Stealing from a 20 year old is just as wrong as stealing from an 80 year old."

      Agree. But both those people are finite. You could also argue that stealing a dollar is just as bad as stealing $100. It's not so much about the amount as it is it's still a crime against another.

      "Not according to your "laws"... any lie is eternal damnation, is it not?"

      Yes. The Bible says all liars will have their part in the lake of fire.

      "p.s. There is no "law" against lying per se to the President, a court of law, police, congress, perhaps, but not the President... and being put to death for such is just ridiculous."

      If I had said, "the government," would that be better?

      March 18, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • End Religion

      @damocles: "I'm half tempted to post my address just to see one of those pics."

      Sorry, Damo... though Groucho Jeebus is funny to me in my mind, it was just a joke. Who's got the time to run around to nativity scenes all night during the Holidays? The only way I'd personally be able to accomplish the task would be to buy my own nativity scene – but it would most assuredly be vandalized by a Christian in no time flat. I can't bring myself to vandalize other folks' property as easily as our god-fearing austin seems to be able to.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "If I lie to a child, nothing happens."

      Now you're denying you wrote this, Gopher?

      Wow. I suggest you get a big cup of shut-the fvck-up and sit down until you are fully awake.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "Liars will burn in the lake of fire." Better take a fan, Gopher. You just lied about what you wrote.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Damocles

      @ER

      Ahhh... see you get my hopes up.... heh.

      @topher

      I think you willingly lie becaue you are so very much looking forward to the burning you feel you justly deserve.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Topher. A child, even if it understands it has been lied to, has little power to do anything about it; hence the difference. It's impossible to lie to a god – if as you believe it is omnipotent then there's no deception; if as I believe there is no god then the result is essentially the same. You're lying to yourself.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • Topher

      I didn't lie. You're taking what I said out of context. But since you're so hung up on it, what would happen to me if I lie to a child?

      March 18, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Gopher, you're the one who said it. How should I know? All I see is that you wrote something and then denied you did so. That would be a lie.

      So I guess you'll be in the lake of fire someday. Better bring your water-wings.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • ME II

      @Topher
      "Agree. But both those people are finite. You could also argue that stealing a dollar is just as bad as stealing $100. It's not so much about the amount as it is it's still a crime against another."

      Incorrect. 1), the amount of a theft does make a difference, hence misdemeanor vs felony, small claims court, etc. 2) you are attempting to shift the evaluation away from the victim to the crime committed.

      "Yes. The Bible says all liars will have their part in the lake of fire."

      So, it is eternal punishment for finite crimes. How is that justice?

      "If I had said, 'the government,' would that be better?"

      No. Lying to "the government" is only a crime in certain circu.mstances, e.g. under oath, tax returns, etc., but is not a crime in and of itself and is usually identified as such, e.g. perjury, tax fraud, etc.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • Damocles

      @topher

      I'm going to call you out twice, once because you said what you said and that quote is what you said and twice because you said this litte gem: It's not so much about the amount as it is it's still a crime against another.

      So it doesn't matter does it? Lying to a child is like lying to a president in your eyes, both offenses punishable by death by immolation.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Gopher, you do your fellow believers no favors. You display precisely the kind of backwards, ignorant thinking that makes other believers look bad.

      Go back to school.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • Topher

      ME II

      "Incorrect. 1), the amount of a theft does make a difference, hence misdemeanor vs felony, small claims court, etc"

      Fair enough. My point is it's bad either way.

      "2) you "are attempting to shift the evaluation away from the victim to the crime committed."

      I'm saying it is important who the crime is committed against. Perhaps I'm not being very clear, and that's my fault. Whom it is against is important, thus the distinction of a child, wife, boss, president/government. All of them are crimes, but each has a very different punishment.

      "So, it is eternal punishment for finite crimes. How is that justice?"

      If it were just my lying to you, then yes, it's a finite crime. But because that's a sin and thus it's a crime against God, it's not finite.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • gary

      If there are two churches close together, you could switch a Mary from one with a Joseph from the other.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Damocles

      @gary

      Awesome! LOL!!

      March 18, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • The real Tom

      There are millions of Christians who do not agree, Gopher. And I'd bet most of them are far better educated and brighter than you are by leagues. Your "interpretation" of the bible is just that: interpretation. You're like one of the blind men feeling up the elephant.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Which God?

      @ ER. Funny about that xmas birth thing. If they got all that frankincense, myrrh and gold, how come he an his old man were poor carpenters? Did Mary spent it all on shoes and jewelry?

      March 18, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @gary

      "If there are two churches close together, you could switch a Mary from one with a Joseph from the other."

      OK, that one made me laugh. I still wouldn't think it was funnyif actually done unless the church had been active in anti-gay propaganda.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • Topher

      The real Tom

      "There are millions of Christians who do not agree."

      Don't agree with what? What God said?

      March 18, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • Billy

      Poor Topher.. so confused.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • The real Tom

      They don't agree with YOU, Gopher. They don't agree with YOUR INTERPRETATION of the bible. They don't agree with your idiotic, silly views.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • The real Tom

      There are millions of Christians belonging to thousands of denominations, Gopher. Are ALL of them wrong except for YOUR church and YOUR preacher? All of them are using the same bible, dude. You make the mistake of believing that YOU know what god said and what it meant and anyone who disagrees is just wrong. What a flamin' ninny.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • Topher

      The real Tom

      "There are millions of Christians belonging to thousands of denominations."

      True.

      "Are ALL of them wrong except for YOUR church and YOUR preacher?"

      Of course not.

      ""You make the mistake of believing that YOU know what god said and what it meant and anyone who disagrees is just wrong."

      I know what God said because I have the Bible. What about, "... all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone ..." needs to be interpreted other than what it plainly says?

      March 18, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Damocles

      Ahhh... all liars.... enjoy the pit there, topher old pal, you lied to a child, you burn.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • The real Tom

      You are an utter moron, Gopher. You can whip out your bible all you want and quote from it till the cows come home, but that won't make what it says god's word. It was written by men 2000 years ago. It isn't fact and every word is not to be taken literally. You can claim that it is and that anyone who doesn't see it that way is doomed, but that doesn't make it so.

      The more you post, the more juvenile you appear.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Your first mistake is saying, "I know..." No, you don't "know." You believe. Which is just fine. You go right on believing whatever you want. Your beliefs and your bible are not the end-all and be-all for everyone. That doesn't mean that everyone who thinks people like you are insane is going to burn forever.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
    • End Religion

      @WhichGod: "Funny about that xmas birth thing. If they got all that frankincense, myrrh and gold, how come he an his old man were poor carpenters? Did Mary spent it all on shoes and jewelry?"

      You better bet your sweet bippy if my kid received a bunch of gold at birth, my first move would've been to get the hell out of the stable. No shoes for Mary! You know how itchy that gets to have a bunch of hay in your underwear? No thank you, sir. Maybe later if there's something left over I flip Mary a fiver to visit the dollar store.

      March 18, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • End Religion

      So let's round up our nativity scene suggestions:
      • Groucho Marx mustache and eyebrows, plus cigar for baby Jeebus. I will throw in the little pair of Harry Potter glasses as well.
      • donkey with baseball bat extension
      • the map/pa LGBT switcheroo

      Anything else? I could come up with more but I want this to be a group effort so we can really have a nice joyous all-inclusive nativity scene (unless I want to exclude you of course).

      March 18, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
  20. Universe

    Mary in Quran (Islamic Scripture)

    “Mention in the scripture Mary. She isolated herself from her family, into an eastern location.” [19:16]

    “While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being.”

    She said, "I seek refuge in the Most Gracious, that you may be righteous."

    He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."

    She said, "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste."

    He said, "Thus said your Lord, `It is easy for Me. We will render him a sign for the people, and mercy from us. This is a predestined matter.' "

    When she bore him, she isolated herself to a faraway place.

    The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "(I am so ashamed;) I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten."

    (The infant) called her from beneath her, saying, "Do not grieve. Your Lord has provided you with a stream.

    "If you shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will drop ripe dates for you.*

    "Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, `I have made a vow of silence, [to the Most Gracious]*; I am not talking today to anyone.' "

    She came to her family, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have committed something that is totally unexpected.

    "O descendant of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste."

    She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?"

    (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of God. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet.

    "He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat) for as long as I live.

    "I am to honor my mother; He did not make me a disobedient rebel.

    "And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected."

    “That was Jesus, the son of Mary, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt.”

    “It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.”

    Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to visit whyIslam org website.

    March 18, 2013 at 10:46 am |
    • Reality

      And now for the real Islam and the horror and terror of its "holy" book:

      http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/005.asp et al
      o "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
      o
      "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

      "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

      "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

      "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

      "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

      "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

      "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

      "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

      "Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)

      "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

      "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

      "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

      "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

      "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

      March 18, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Reality

      As the koranic/mosque driven acts of terror and horror continue:

      The Muslim Conquest of India – 11th to 18th century

      ■"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "

      and the 19 million killed in the Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C by Muslims.

      and more recently

      1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

      1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

      2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

      3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US troops killed in action, 3,480 and 928 in non combat roles. 102,522 – 112,049 Iraqi civilians killed as of 9/16/2011/, mostly due to suicide bombers, land mines and bombs of various types, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

      4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

      5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

      6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

      7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

      8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

      9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

      10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,385 killed in action, 273 killed in non-combat situations as of 09/15/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

      11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

      12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

      13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

      14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

      15 The daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings in the terror world of Islam.

      16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

      17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

      18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.

      19) A Pakistani minister, who had said he was getting death threats because of his stance against the country's controversial blasphemy law, was shot and killed Wednesday, 3/2/2011

      20) two American troops killed in Germany by a recently radicalized Muslim, 3/3/2011

      21) the kidnapping and apparent killing of a follower of Zoraster in the dark world of Islamic Pakistan.

      22) Shariatpur, Bangladesh (CNN 3/30/2011) - Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl. Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public. Hena dropped after 70 and died a week later.

      23) "October 4, 2011, 100 die as a truck loaded with drums of fuel exploded Tuesday at the gate of compound housing several government ministries on a busy Mogadishu street. It was the deadliest single bombing carried out by the al Qaeda-linked al-Shabab group in Somalia since their insurgency began. "

      o 24) Mon Jun 4, 2012 10:18am EDT
      o
      BAGHDAD (Reuters) – A suicide bomber detonated an explosive-packed car outside a Shi'ite Muslim office in central Baghdad on Monday, killing at least 26 people and wounding more than 190 in an attack bearing the hallmarks of Iraq's al Qaeda affiliate.
      The bombing on a Shi'ite religious office comes at a sensitive time, with the country's fractious Shi'ite, Sunni and Kurdish blocs locked in a crisis that threatens to unravel their power-sharing deal and spill into sectarian tensions."

      25) BURGAS, Bulgaria | Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:27am EDT

      (Reuters) – A suicide bomber carried out an attack that killed seven people in a bus transporting Israeli tourists in Bulgaria, the interior minister said on Thursday, and Israel said Iranian-backed Hezbollah militants were to blame.

      26 ) September 12, 2012
      U.S. AMBASSADOR KILLED
      Envoy to Libya dies in rocket blast

      March 18, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • Saraswati

      Better yet, just read the Quran. It cleared up any misconceptions I had about Islam being a peaceful or rational religion.

      March 18, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • The real Tom

      And your conclusion was what, Sara?

      I'd appreciate a concise response, as opposed to the interminable drivel of the sort Reality sh!ts out.

      March 18, 2013 at 10:55 am |
    • Chad

      @Saraswati "Better yet, just read the Quran. "
      =>you should consider reading the bible now ...

      March 18, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Saraswati

      Not peaceful unless you agree and not rational. Additionally, it was the most boring religious text I've ever read and I've read a lot. I nearly gave up after the repeated versions of "believe or you will burn in hell". I tend to think Islam requires its strict anti-conversion laws because it is so boring that people would find something else if they were allowed to seriously consider changing.

      March 18, 2013 at 10:57 am |
    • Akira

      => Why do you assume Saraswati hasn't, Chad?
      Have YOU ever read the Qu'ran, Chad?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Chad, I've read the Bible cover to cover. More interesting than the Quran because it had better and more colorful stories. Less interesting that the Gita, Tao Te Ching, Book or Mormon, Vedas or most Buddhist texts. I suppose if you consider Confucianism a religion (I don't) that wins the most boring award since it's just a string of disconnected ideas. I have to assume the man was brighter than that and the scribes just did a crap job.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • ME II

      @Saraswati,
      " I have to assume the man was brighter than that and the scribes just did a crap job."

      Kind of works for most religions, no?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • Saraswati

      @ME II, you can use that for a lot of religions, but some, like Mormonism, have author-scribes that make it trickier. Good to keep that out in mind if starting a religion. Step one, find a scribe and make it clear anything iffy is his or her fault.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • ME II

      @Saraswati,
      lol, no doubt. It's all in the preparation.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • meifumado

      Dont forget the surah that states a womens word is worth half of a mans.

      Funny your site is called "whyislam" I agree ,why would anyone with half a brain even think of following such a dumb religion.

      All religions are bad , Islam is the worst.

      Do us all a favor and go martyr yourself.

      March 18, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • Chad

      @Saraswati " I've read the Bible cover to cover. "
      =>what did you find therein that led you to reject it?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • The real Tom

      Why don't you answer the questions asked of you, Chard/Rachel? Have you read the Quran? Have you studied Buddhism?

      What did you find in the bible that led you to accept it?

      And what does that belief do for you?

      March 18, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Chad,

      "what did you find therein that led you to reject it?"

      I believe we've discussed all this before. Primarily 1) It had nothing in particular to offer over other religious texts, 2) I read it as conflicting with science (yes, I know you disagree), 3) In particular I read it as conflicting with modern psychology (as we have previously discussed, particularly in relation to “free will”), 4) I found there to be more compelling historical explanations for the Bible's origins than divine inspiration.

      I'm giving you that list because you asked, but the bible as I have mentioned earlier is not of great interest to me except from a cultural/historical perspective and I have no interest in debating it's validity any more than debating the validity of the Australian aboriginal Dreamtime. I've been there, done that in great detail 20+ years ago. I do find the general discussion about a theoretical god or the nature of a specific god interesting, but the details of the supernatural parts of the Christian bible as fact or fiction is a discussion that frankly is not something I consider a valuable, interesting or entertaining use of my time.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • Which God?

      Universe. Pure unadulterated bullschitt.

      March 18, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • Chad

      @saraswati " In particular I read it as conflicting with modern psychology (as we have previously discussed, particularly in relation to “free will”)"
      @Chad "well, "modern psychology" doesnt discount free will, only a purely naturalist stance would do that.
      So, what makes you think that naturalism is true and the bible is false?

      All of your logic seems predicated on the premise that naturalism is true?

      ============
      @Saraswait "I found there to be more compelling historical explanations for the Bible's origins than divine inspiration."
      @Chad "such as what?"

      ======
      @saraswati "and I have no interest in debating it's validity any more than debating the validity of the Australian aboriginal Dreamtime."
      @Chad "again, you seem to base everything on your presumption that naturalism is true.

      upon what do you make that claim?

      March 18, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • The real Tom

      So, Chard/Rachel, you can't answer any questions? Just ask more?

      Good to know that you don't really feel much of anything for a god.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • clarity

      Chad – precisely who wrote those gospels? Do we know, beyond a doubt that the gospels were written by four different writers? Do we know beyond a doubt if any the authors were eyewitnesses to the stories about which they wrote?

      March 18, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Chad

      @clarity "precisely who wrote those gospels? Do we know, beyond a doubt that the gospels were written by four different writers? Do we know beyond a doubt if any the authors were eyewitnesses to the stories about which they wrote?"

      @Chad "since you ask that question repeatedly, receiving the same affirmative response as below, I can only assume you are merely trolling, and cant be bothered to actually do any investigation yourself...

      two of the Gospels identify the author (Luke and John)
      three of the Gospels were written by eye witnesses (Matthew, Mark, John).

      Here's the view on it from the atheist "rational wiki"
      Using the Bible as partial biographical evidence of Jesus is not as completely insane or wall-bangingly circular as it may first seem. Although the gospels are generally published in one compendium known as The Bible, they are separate doc uments and almost certainly were written by separate authors
      ..
      ..
      Because of the way cultures have told their religious and mythic stories over time, and based in no small part on studies of modern "new" religions (especially cult religions) and how they deify their own leaders,[13] most scholars of Biblical history believe that the gospels of the Bible are sufficient evidence to say that Jesus, or some human seed for the stories who we may as well tag "Jesus", did exist, and his existence can be as sumed from them.[14][15] And if such a person existed, it is equally likely that major broad themes are based in reality; he likely would have been one of the many teachers or self-proclaimed prophets of the time[16] and he probably ticked off the wrong people and found himself dead.
      ..
      ..
      What most historians and scholars think (as stated above) is that a human named Jesus was the seed for the Christian myths

      Source: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ

      March 18, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • midwest rail

      " you seem to base everything on your presumption that naturalism is true.

      upon what do you make that claim? "
      Since nowhere did sara make that claim, you are, once again, putting words in someone's mouth merely to point the debate in the specific direction you wish it to go.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "two of the Gospels identify the author (Luke and John)
      three of the Gospels were written by eye witnesses (Matthew, Mark, John).

      Here's the view on it from the atheist 'rational wiki'"

      I don't see how anything in your quote supports your two statements. Perhaps I've misread it.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • clarity

      I keep asking, Chad, because your answers are not convincing. I'll await your response to ME II.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • Chad

      not sure where you got confused.

      @Clarity: "Do we know, beyond a doubt that the gospels were written by four different writers?"
      @Rational Wiki "Although the gospels are generally published in one compendium known as The Bible, they are separate doc uments and almost certainly were written by separate authors"

      March 18, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Doesn't say there were four, Chard.

      March 18, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      Yes, I see how it addresses one of @clarity's questions, but not your statements.
      Especially the eye witness part, to which your linked article says,

      The authors of the four canonical Gospels appear to be well-educated later writers who were skilled in Greek composition, writing about what they had heard, and doing so in religio-politically motivated ways;[22] since they were not witnesses to any of the events, their works must be read as second-hand knowledge only.

      March 18, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • Chad

      "since they were not witnesses to any of the events,"

      =>that's where "rational wiki" gets a bit "irrational" 🙂

      As I said, Gospel of John was an eye witness account, and identifies the author itself.
      Early church fathers and other ancient docs identify Mark and Matthew as authors, and they were both eye witnesses.

      March 18, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "that's where 'rational wiki' gets a bit 'irrational' "

      Ah, so unlike the Bible it's not all or nothing, but some parts can be accurate and others not?

      "As I said, Gospel of John was an eye witness account, and identifies the author itself.
      Early church fathers and other ancient docs identify Mark and Matthew as authors, and they were both eye witnesses."

      Ok, so in response to @clarity's questions, your answer is a) the docu.ment itself b) "Early church fathers" and c) "other ancient docs".

      Just checking, thanks.

      March 18, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • Chad

      @clarity's questions, your answer is a) the docu.ment itself b) "Early church fathers" and c) "other ancient docs".
      Just checking, thanks.

      =>umm.. yes..

      what were you expecting? a book signing at Borders?

      🙂

      you guys never fail to crack me up.

      March 18, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Still the same non-evidence from Chad I see.

      March 18, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • clarity

      Lol – regarding the Gospel of John, Chad, you may want to "correct" Wikipedia, since they must obviously be wrong (just be sure to cite your sources there):

      "Although some notable New Testament scholars affirm traditional Johannine scholarship,[11][12] the majority do not believe that John or one of the Apostles wrote it"

      March 18, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • ME II

      @Chad,
      "what were you expecting? a book signing at Borders?"
      Actual evidence maybe. Your sources are essentially 'the book said so', 'that's what we've always believed', and hearsay.

      "you guys never fail to crack me up."
      More so than, quotes that don't support your statements from sources that actually disagree with your conclusion? 🙂

      March 18, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • End Religion

      SadBrokenChad said: "Gospel of John was an eye witness account, and identifies the author itself."

      Gospel of John is yet another "pious" fraud perpetrated by SadBrokenChad:

      " the Gospel of St. John was certainly not written by John himself"
      http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Gospel-of-St-John-Yet-Another-Piece-of-Pious-Fraud?&id=4262593

      http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/religion/christianity/piousfraud.shtml

      "The Gospel of John is a sophisticated deceit.."
      http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/john.htm

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3MM3aqe8M0&w=640&h=360]

      -
      this is so obvious – just google it!
      google this phrase: gospel of john fraud
      962,000 results – undeniable proof john was a fraud!

      now google this (use quote marks):
      "chad is right that the gospel of john is very very true"
      No results found for "chad is right that the gospel of john is very very true".

      March 18, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.