March 18th, 2013
01:59 PM ET

# Producer: Claim of Obama-Satan likeness nonsense

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) – The third episode of the History Channel's miniseries “The Bible” was supposed to be remembered for the brutality of Babylonian ruler Nebuchadnezzar, the strength of Daniel in the lion’s den, and the birth of Jesus Christ.

But after viewers claimed there was a striking resemblance between Satan’s human form and President Barack Obama, that probably won't be the case.

Buzz on Twitter quickly grew. According to Topsy.com on Monday, there were an estimated 20,000 tweets containing the words “Obama” and “Satan” since the 9:00 p.m. ET hour on Sunday, the hour in which Satan appears in the two-hour show.

In a statement, miniseries producer Mark Burnett called claims there was a resemblance "utter nonsense."

Burnett said the actor who played Satan, Mohamen Mehdi Ouazanni, "is a highly acclaimed Moroccan actor. He has previously played parts in several Biblical epics - including Satanic characters long before Barack Obama was elected as our President."

Ouazanni has had roles in two biblical TV movies - "Jeremiah" and "The Ten Commandments."

Executive producer of the miniseries Roma Downey, Burnett's wife, added, "Both Mark and I have nothing but respect and love our President, who is a fellow Christian. False statements such as these are just designed as a foolish distraction to try and discredit the beauty of the story of The Bible."

Satan appears during the miniseries’ retelling of the Temptation of Christ, when Jesus fasted for 40 days in the Judean Desert. Satan tests Jesus’ faith, asking him to make bread out of stone and jump from a cliff, but he refuses each temptation and returns to the Sea of Galilee to begin his ministry.

In the desert, Satan is draped in a long, black, hooded robe and with a slight silver tint to his face.

Both Downey and Burnett supported Obama's first campaign for president in 2008, according to Federal Election Commission reports. Downey gave $5,000 to the Obama Victory Fund and$2,700 to the Democratic National Committee in 2008. Burnett also donated to Obama's first campaign - $2,300 in 2007. Neither gave money to Obama's 2012 campaign. While the show was airing, tweets poured in noting the resemblance. Not everyone on Twitter agreed, though. After three episodes, the show has scored strong ratings. Its first episode drew 13.1 million viewers, ratings that trumped CBS’s “60 Minutes” and AMC’s “The Walking Dead.” The second episode drew 10.8 million viewers. Ratings for the third installment in the five-week miniseries have not been released. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories The project has been a three-and-a-half year process for The History Channel and for Burnett and Downey. Burnett - who is better known as a king of reality television, with “Survivor,” “The Voice” and “The Apprentice” all under his name - told CNN earlier this month that this project was “personal.” “It was time for an updating, adding fresh visual life to a sacred text,” Burnett said. Both Downey and Burnett were raised Catholic, Burnett in England and Downey in Ireland. They still regularly attend Mass in Los Angeles. Growing up, both watched the classic biblical films that the Hollywood of yesteryear churned out, like “The Ten Commandments” and “The Greatest Story Ever Told.” To film their Bible series, the duo set off for the southern tip of Morocco with a crew of around 400 people. CNN Belief: Reality TV Goliath takes up Bible miniseries challenge, hopes for better outcome Burnett and Downey consulted a wide range of pastors and academics, including a major evangelical leader and a Catholic cardinal. Their advisory panel consisted of many people from varied backgrounds familiar with sharing the stories of the Bible, rather than a who’s who of biblical academics. Joel Osteen, a popular television preacher and pastor of the 30,000-member Lakewood church in Houston, was among those consulted. Osteen and Burnett are friends and were developing a television series together that went on the back burner during the production of this series. Osteen even took his family to Morocco during some of the filming. While the History Channel owns the exclusive North American rights to the project, Burnett and Downey own the rights to global distribution and theatrical airings, which are in the works. The project also has a book tie-in, games and apps. - CNN’s Eric Marrapodi and Eric Weisbrod contributed to this report.  Dan Merica - Dan Merica Filed under: Barack Obama • Belief • Bible ###### soundoff(2,474 Responses) 1. Desire Grover Wow. Talk about Zionist propaganda. I love the Bible and to see it used this way is insulting but I'll get over it. March 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm | 2. Strummer101er I wonder if Pilate will turn to Jesus and say "Jesus, the tribe has spoken". March 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm | • WASP i wonder if they will show the part where jesus family thought he was insane and tried to restrain him? lmfao March 19, 2013 at 2:31 pm | 3. sam LOL Oh, this is comedy gold. March 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm | 4. AB Well you know, all those satan people look alike. March 18, 2013 at 2:23 pm | 5. boocat First of all this show depicts Jesus as light skinned and almost blonde...so who the **** CARES? March 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm | • Kip Oliver Thank you! Westerners DO NOT want to admit that Jesus wasn't white. March 18, 2013 at 4:45 pm | • umley Also, Samson was portrayed by a brotha with dreads! March 18, 2013 at 5:14 pm | 6. Sly All black people look alike to white folks, so this is no surprise. Besides, don't most Bible thumpers think that only white people go to heaven? All Chinese, Blacks, Hispanics etc ... – all the devil, right? March 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm | • richard that's what I've always heard March 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm | • NCT No, they do not believe that. March 18, 2013 at 2:41 pm | • Andrew Maybe, but he looks Arab to me. No surprise they pick someone of Arab origins to depict the devil for a Christian audience... March 18, 2013 at 2:53 pm | • CAT Exactly.... March 18, 2013 at 4:36 pm | • Christian7 Are you saying that all Bible thumpers are white? March 18, 2013 at 9:18 pm | • WASP @SLY: not all but some denominations of christians do preach "biblical deferences" between the ethnic groups. i rememeber while i was being raised southern baptist the preacher........and the congregation, saying that ethnic groups started with god marking cain for killing able. it truly makes me disgusted that religion can be used to "ok" almost any type of hate in this world. just find a passage "interrpt" it how you like then vuala god ok's what you hate. so not all groups do this kind of ignorance but some do, i'm so glad i was introduced to science which has a much more logical reason for various pigments in human skin. March 19, 2013 at 2:29 pm | 7. richunix @Fred Do you know were the notion of Heaven/Hell even come from? March 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm | • B. It was invented by early Man to control the ignorant masses as it still does.. March 20, 2013 at 11:59 am | 8. Scott It looks like Obama after 3 more years of dealing with a republican congress March 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm | 9. richard don't they all maintain similar physical appearances? March 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm | 10. Darkseider LOL! The producers may say it's utter nonsense. Although reality is when you look at the picture there is a very strong resemblance to Obama. Coincidental? Maybe. Amusing? Absolutely! March 18, 2013 at 2:21 pm | • NCT I watched it and did NOT see any resemblence. It looks more like the sith on star wars movies. March 18, 2013 at 2:42 pm | 11. Michelle Obama IS satan. March 18, 2013 at 2:21 pm | • boocat And I'll bet you're a "christian"........I know one thing...YOU ARE A PATHETIC HATE-MONGERING LOSER...... March 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm | • Sly Yes, Michelle, our President is the devil, and he's gonna creep into your bedroom tonight and have his way with you and you will be the mother of more devils. And then, he will abort your next baby and eat it raw, blood oozing everywhere (oh, wait, do aborted babies have blood yet, or are they just little cells?). And then your White God will fly down from the clouds to smote him, but, just like President Obama did to the Republicans, He will kick your God's butt all the way back up to heaven, and the big fat man will learn to keep his nose out of our countries business. Yep ... you nailed it baby. March 18, 2013 at 2:28 pm | • Ken in MO Even the new pope said that we should care for the poor. It sounds to me like Obama is much closer to Jesus than any of the GOP Hate Mongers. I dont know what bible you read but the bible I read is much more like Obamas polices than that of the GOP. March 18, 2013 at 2:28 pm | • Ken in MO Sly, you went too far. You can disagree with her without all the crazy. March 18, 2013 at 2:30 pm | • sam The original post was chock full of crazy...plus, this is the belief blog, there is no such thing here as 'too far'. March 18, 2013 at 2:36 pm | • Sniff This sniffit Oh come on Michelle he's not Satan.....He's the antichrist......Son of Satan!!! March 18, 2013 at 2:42 pm | • Sly (Ken, if someone as crazy as Michelle really believes in Satan and thinks our President is a devil, then she really really needed a little (electro-) shock therapy ... so I tossed in a few dead fetus's. Nothin' gets a God-Wacko's attention more than dead fetus's ... So, it was really just a discussion point ... ) March 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | • CAT STFU stupid bagger! March 18, 2013 at 4:39 pm | • He knows Evil Satan will appear in many forms to appeal to you. He will give trinkets of food stamps while raising the price of milk from$1.85 to $4.55 a gallon. He will preach peace while he sends Drones to kill innocents, civilian men, woman and CHILDREN by the thousands. He will preach liberty and freedom while he gives himself the right to kill US citizens without due process. And then authorizes his drones to spy and kill US citizens on US soil. Yes.. Satan will try to appeal you. But here you see his face. Beware and combat the Evil. March 18, 2013 at 4:43 pm | • Kip Oliver That tells me what God must think of Americans, if he let Satan be in charge. According to YOUR Bible, Romans 13, no one is in authority unless it is God's will. Which means, God allowed Obama to be president. If Obama is Satan, it tells you what God thinks about us. Perhaps God's really fed up with Christians who only follow part of the Bible. Maybe he's sick of Westboro Baptist Church. Or maybe he's tired of people using him as a reason to hate and kill. Love your neighbor, but only if he's white, straight, and christian. March 18, 2013 at 4:50 pm | 12. Phil Esteen Even more preposterous is the notion that Jesus Christ was a blue-eyed white man. He was from the Levant! He would have looked like a Palestinian, not some guy from Nebraska. March 18, 2013 at 2:20 pm | • Larry Winkler Yep. I'd bet Christian would collapse if researchers were able to show that Jesus looked like Yassar Arafat. And, he probably did, except without the teeth. March 18, 2013 at 2:23 pm | 13. Dave I'm embarrassed for CNN that they gave this idea enough credibility to publish anything about it at all. March 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm | 14. glk20c Holy crap! Obama is the devil? I knew there was something more. March 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm | • Sly Now I'm confused – I thought the Republicans wanted to see President Obama's birth certificate again ... Satan doesn't have a birth certificate. Make up your minds you hill-billies – is President Obama the devil and he really has little red horns and lives deep in the middle of the earth in the fire, or is he from Kenya, or Mars (as many Republicans think)? My, I love fantasy. March 18, 2013 at 3:15 pm | 15. sybaris Religion is a filthy perverted disease of the mind March 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm | • NCT You mean what our government is doing to the people is perverted, sick and mindless. March 18, 2013 at 2:46 pm | • sybaris Uh no, I don't see how the spelling of "religion" can be confused with "government" but then I didn't go to your school. March 18, 2013 at 2:56 pm | • DaTruth Yes. March 18, 2013 at 4:17 pm | 16. AB Jodi Arias just confessed to doing yoga. Big news all around today. March 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm | 17. Jeff The first thing I saw when I saw the devil was...where is his light saber? March 18, 2013 at 2:18 pm | • The real Tom Yup. Of course, put a pair of aviator shades on him and you get the unibomber. March 18, 2013 at 2:20 pm | • AB Does Disney own the History channel too? March 18, 2013 at 2:20 pm | 18. fred Atheists this could be face you see for eternity. Why take the risk. What is keeping you from asking Jesus into your life? No Pascal here just a taste of darkness. March 18, 2013 at 2:11 pm | • The real Tom Real hell would be an eternity of conversations with dullards like you. March 18, 2013 at 2:12 pm | • Billy "Why take the risk." Still living on a hunch I see freddie boy. March 18, 2013 at 2:13 pm | • hawaiiguest @fred What you said is the very definition of Pascals Wager. Making a false dichotomy of "my narrow view of which denomination is correct or nothing". Pascals is so transparent it's ridiculous. March 18, 2013 at 2:13 pm | • fred Tom, that is a good start. So you prefer dirty talk and sarcastic language to heavenly voices? Hummm......that is worth an eternity without the opportunity to see wonder without end? March 18, 2013 at 2:16 pm | • Damocles Um, fred, this is a picture from a tv show. March 18, 2013 at 2:16 pm | • Damocles I love me some dirty talk! March 18, 2013 at 2:17 pm | • . Fear sells and fred is the salesman of fear. March 18, 2013 at 2:18 pm | • The real Tom What a hoot. Fred thinks his voice is heavenly. March 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm | • fred Billy, if the odds were 1,000 to one that there is God or 1,000 to one there is something after this life. Seriously, why would anyone give such a handicap? What is it you value that 1,000 times greater than a possibility of hope? March 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm | • jim seeing as the vast majority of the prison population has a one way ticket to heaven I think I'll pass. March 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm | • fred hawaiiguest You will not spend eternity in hell, nothingness or heaven because your math skills are lacking when it comes to probability. 98% of the world says your probably wrong why do you take the risk. Exactly what is so darn import to demand such a risk? March 18, 2013 at 2:21 pm | • hawaiiguest @fred Why are incapable of addressing all the other denominations (30,000+) of christianity alone? March 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm | • SmarterThanYall What's keeping me from asking Jesus into my life? How about that I don't believe he exists as a deity? Or that I don't believe that I am fundamentally flawed and in need of some magical "salvation"? Nah, it's really just that can't flippin' stand to be associated with idiots that worry about how much an actor playing the minor Christian deity Satan, in a fictional TV series, looks like President Obama. March 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm | • ellid Unless the Jesus you speak of is the compassionate teacher who loved the poor, scorned the rich, and uplifted the have-nots and the little children, not a chance. The vindictive, hate-filled Jesus of the current evangelical movement in the United States is not someone I would let babysit my cat or mow my lawn, let alone "welcome into my heart." March 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm | • The real Tom Why would you think I'd live my life any differently if I believed, dead-head fred? Are you so dumb that you think anyone who doesn't believe in your version of god is automatically immoral? Why are fundies so dumb? March 18, 2013 at 2:23 pm | • Damocles Imagine my surprise to learn that 98% of the world had died and gone to heaven/hell and then come back to tell about it. March 18, 2013 at 2:23 pm | • The real Tom So, fred, the only reason you "believe" is because of the threat of hell if you don't? And the promise of heaven if you do? And you think a just god is going to reward you for that? March 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm | • Nicole Christians are hypocritical, self-righteous liars. People come to Christianity out of fear. Fear of demons, fear of the unknown, fear of death, fear of life. I have seen nothing from Christianity but hypocrisy, lies, and judgment. Christians stand on their pedestal and pronounce who is saved and not saved, what is right and what is wrong. I don't think Christianity has any answers. I think the church is one big parade of self-righteousness and judgment. March 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm | • boocat Hey Fred...it's 2013...the 21st century....wish you were here... March 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm | • fred Damocles Ok, ya got me there. I fully understand that to have the presence of the Holy Spirit in my life I must give up all my life to Christ. I do miss the dirty talk sometimes and it is warning sign for me that I am slipping back into old ways. March 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm | • hawaiiguest @fred You are truly pathetic. You first make an an appeal to Pascal's Wager while saying you're not, then you make an appeal to popularity. You want to know what's so important? Intellecutal integrity. The evidence is not there, and there is no reason to think these people are right. And before you make the Straw Man argument that I "think I'm smarter than insert whatever subject fred feels like here", that's not the case and you know it. Will you continue talking about this dishonestly? Or will you run once again like a coward? March 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm | • Pete "98% of the world says your probably wrong why do you take the risk. " more lies from the xtians – 218! March 18, 2013 at 2:27 pm | • fred hawaiiguest God will not reject you from the promise of hope because of your denomination. It is your rejection of God that reveals your denomination. Yes, you have a denomination within the faith of the non believers. Yet, even philosophical naturalism will not bar you from the pearly gates. It is the heart of rejection that will bar you. March 18, 2013 at 2:30 pm | • Damocles So am I to understand that you are typing from beyond the grave? If not, then you obviously have not given up your life to your deity. If your deity is bent out of shape by a little dirty talk, well, that's just a tad bit petty, don't you think? March 18, 2013 at 2:30 pm | • fred SmarterThanYall You must be an Independent so you will withold your vote until the vail is removed. It may be too late by then. Even though you claim it is just Hollywood you are influenced by the garbage they put out. March 18, 2013 at 2:33 pm | • hawaiiguest @fred And, once again, you cannot address the post. You are a coward and a failure when it comes to any kind of honest discussion or debate. You don't give a shit about anything other than your own self-righteousness. March 18, 2013 at 2:34 pm | • The real Tom It's a VEIL, you stupid cluck. March 18, 2013 at 2:34 pm | • NCT Wow, lots of God haters and unbelievers here. When you pass away and meet your maker (Christ Jesus), and he sends you too hell, remember his final words.....I did not ever turn my back on you.....You turned your back on me. He loves you no matter what, and died so that you could be welcomed into the Kingdom of Heaven with NO strings attached. Just acceptance. And before you all go on and on.....It's NOT about religion (like most men have made it), it's about a relationship in right standing with God because of what Jesus did at the cross. Nothing more, nothing less. March 18, 2013 at 2:35 pm | • fred Ellid Yep, Jesus overturned the tables at the temple because they turned the House of Prayer into a den of thieves. Religion of man brings more harm than Good when Jesus is not the focus. March 18, 2013 at 2:37 pm | • sam Any god that sends people somewhere to suffer for eternity for any reason is a punk bitch not deserving of worship. March 18, 2013 at 2:39 pm | • hawaiiguest @NCT LOL Yea no strings attached, except you need to accept it under pain of eternal torment, but that's not a string. Tell you what, I got a bridge to sell you and it's extremely sturdy. You can't see it or test it until you buy it, but it's a good bridge. March 18, 2013 at 2:40 pm | • John "And before you all go on and on.....It's NOT about religion (like most men have made it), it's about a relationship in right standing with God because of what Jesus did at the cross. Nothing more, nothing less." You can taste the Christian fear whenever you challenge their beliefs. They cannot even consider doubting any of the deliberately crafted fear based propaganda they have been fed because the first thing they fear is being punished by God and so they would then be doomed to burn in hell. Deep down inside they probably know that their beliefs are ridiculous but they are afraid of the consequences of unbelief. Their fear runs so deep and grips them so firmly that they have become stupid. Do not misunderstand me, they are not stupid, they are just in a stupid period of their lives and they need help to get un-stupid. Well, I have some messages for all you deluded Christians out there. First: Most of you do not even know the God you worship because you have no idea what the Bible actually says. Second: You have to be able to shed the fear based domination that you have been indoctrinated with before you can even begin to use your brain. Third: You have no idea what evidence is. You only believe what feels good, anecdotal tales, and hearsay. You would rather believe some authority rather than actually look at the evidence. Fourth: Your first reaction to any challenge is to think that this is from the Devil which means you must not think about it thereby short-circuiting any hope that you might have to regain your dignity. You are deathly afraid of tolerance and open-mindedness because the Devil is too clever for you. Fifth: You believe that your morals come from your God but you are completely wrong about that. In fact, your morals are far above and superior to God’s but you do not realize this. Sixth: You believe that the Bible is the unerring literal word of God but you have no idea where the Bible came from and you have no idea what it even says. Seventh: If you have read the Bible you cannot come to terms with the contradictions nor the actual character of God as portrayed in the Bible so you deem it necessary to pick and choose your morality and beliefs in order to avoid difficulties. Eighth: You only remember the good things and you forget the bad things. Thus, you have no way of avoiding bad things in the future so you continually repeat the same old mistakes time after time. Ninth: You know for a fact that you do not live the life Jesus Christ called for yet you ignore this contradiction. Tenth: Given that the Bible is supposed to be the unerring literal word of God, you are surprisingly fractious and not at all united in faith or doctrine. You may have noticed that I have listed ten points, just like the ten commandments. There is no reason why I did that other than to be just quirky about it. I could have listed less or added more points. Meh! I am sure I could go on and on but the bottom line is that your religion is completely stupid. If that offends you then there is no hope for you and you will continue being deluded into being a good little slave who is not allowed to think and you will always meekly submit to those who control you with fear, intimidation, and manipulative psychological domination tactics. I feel really sorry for you. I can say the following because I know it is true – I was like you myself before I shed my own fear and got better: Get well soon, because you are mentally ill. March 18, 2013 at 2:43 pm | • fred The Real Tom “Why would you think I'd live my life any differently if I believed” =>Even the most moral of person cannot help but live a different life when Christ becomes their savior. Even I have difficulty giving up my whole being to God. I cannot sell all my possessions and give it the poor which shows I really do not (or cannot) walk 100% dependent on God to provide. It nags at me. My life would be vastly different if I followed Christ. My excuse may be tied to fear, lack of faith or both. But, life would be very different. March 18, 2013 at 2:45 pm | • hawaiiguest @fred Or it could be tied to you knowing that selling everything and living on "prayers and happy feelings" is fucking stupid. March 18, 2013 at 2:47 pm | • UncleBenny @NCT: "When you pass away and meet your maker (Christ Jesus), and he sends you too hell ... He loves you no matter what ..." Does anyone else see the glaring contradiction here? A loving God/Christ sends people to everlasting torment? March 18, 2013 at 2:48 pm | • NCT Sam, realize that God is NOT sending people to hell. They are sending themselves there because they refused to accept a free gift offered to them. March 18, 2013 at 2:48 pm | • Damocles @NCT Ahhh, yes, as long as the deity's hands remain clean, it's all good. 'Oh, the deity isn't doing it, why he would never do such a thing, it's your fault.' March 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm | • sam NCT gets a 9.5 rating on the mental gymnastics. March 18, 2013 at 2:54 pm | • NCT @John, There's where you are wrong again. Yes, I have read the Bible many times, and yes I do know and understand much of what I have read. Yes, I do know what and why Jesus did what he did. I lived much of my life working and believing what I was taught growing up. Then I ran into difficulties and had one place to turn. God, through Christ Jesus. Once my heart was opened to understanding and accepting Jesus sacrifice on my behalf, my life was changed. Yes, I see throughout my life how things have lead me to that belief and yes, things have worked out for me ever since. It has changed my life. Although, there are still things in my life that are screwed up, just like everyone on this planet is screwed up somehow. And yes, I KNOW what I believe. March 18, 2013 at 2:54 pm | • hawaiiguest NCT is another coward. Ignoring certain posts and twisting around. NCT, why don't you address that you call this "gift" free, yet if you don't take it you go to eternal torment? That's not free, that's an ultimatum. March 18, 2013 at 2:59 pm | • fred The real Tom “So, fred, the only reason you "believe" is because of the threat of hell if you don't? And the promise of heaven if you do?” =>You are correct that would never work. It is simply the grace of God, an extension of goodness, which flows out to any that would accept it. I am not certain the image we are given of heaven or hell represents the reality of what we will encounter. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never saw the Promised Land while they lived. Even Moses never entered the Promised Land only saw it from a distance. Jesus gave clarity as to what the hope was that the ancients looked forward too but not a lot of detail of heaven. He has prepared a room for us in His Father’s house. God does not have a building built of stone and is not contained by that which we know or can explain. So, I think it will be a great surprise. We will both be surprised I suspect. March 18, 2013 at 3:01 pm | • fred Nicole Yes, you are partially correct in that I needed a savior and someone gave me the Bible. I followed the simply instructions and asked Jesus for help. Help He did and my life has never been as it once was. March 18, 2013 at 3:03 pm | • Sly Fred, I'm a liberal, but it is really really gross of you to suggest that me, a straight male, is going to take some young man into my life. I am very open minded, and I don't care what Jesus does in his own bedroom on his own time, but, please, keep that stuff away from me. March 18, 2013 at 3:06 pm | • Robert "Help He did and my life has never been as it once was." It had nothing to do with a god, but you finally started believing in yourself and holding yourself accountable. The only thing your religion is doing is making you dumber. March 18, 2013 at 3:07 pm | • nope "You are correct that would never work. It is simply the grace of God, an extension of goodness, which flows out to any that would accept it" That's why people in your religion have done horrific things in the name of your God. Why they are some of the greediest, laziest people. Look at you, you don't have a real life or a job with all the time you spend on here. March 18, 2013 at 3:09 pm | • sam God: "Ok then, you guys, I've made this lake of fire over here...and I've created a bunch of rules. If you don't follow the rules, you get the lake. And it's totally your fault. I feel this is fair." March 18, 2013 at 3:09 pm | • hawaiiguest And once again, fred must ignore me and will eventually just run like he always does. March 18, 2013 at 3:11 pm | • fred Hawaiiguest You use arguments of Greek logic and rules of logic that may be helpful in a debate but are no value in the things of God. God is not of matter that can be measured or put into the constructs of man yet alone Plato. You have forgotten that the great Greeks which much of philosophical naturalism flows from built a monument to the unknown god. The Unknown is still what that philosophy is left with today. Why is it so hard for you to understand 98% of the world disagrees with you based on belief that is based on faith not science? Even atheists are aware of the unknown and lack of knowledge to express or even begin to erect a construct for that unknown. 98% hope for something greater than known life / existence in that greatness. You cannot even explain why you are among the 2% that hope for less rather than more while knowing that goes against everything we know. March 18, 2013 at 3:15 pm | • The real Tom "You use arguments of Greek logic and rules of logic that may be helpful in a debate but are no value in the things of God." Not according to Paul/Chad, freddy. You'd better check with the high command. March 18, 2013 at 3:16 pm | • hawaiiguest @fred 1) What do the Greeks have to do with anything. 2) You are not addressing your fallacies. 3) Fallacies do not become valid through more fallacies. Still unable to engage honestly fred. Truly pathetic. So how many irrelevant posts will you make before you run like the coward you are? March 18, 2013 at 3:19 pm | • fred Damocles Yes, certainly it would be petty for God to get bent out shape over dirty talk and even the bigger hurdles are impossible for human effort alone. Out of the mouth flows the nature of soul which is of bigger concern. Lust appears to be a problem throughout the Bible and to this day remains a problem.$exual lust is an understandable way to get the point across as the old time Hebrews understood it thousands of years ago as well as we do today. It is a problem even if there were no God.

March 18, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
• G to the T

You (wrongly) assume that no atheists were ever christians to start... sorry to burst your bubble. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt...

March 18, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
• fred

The real Tom
“It's a VEIL, you stupid cluck.”
=>Just checking if you were the real Tom or not. It is confirmed.

March 18, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
• Damocles

So your deity makes people lustful and then condemns them for being lustful. Makes sense. If you are psychotic.

March 18, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
• .

"Yes, I have read the Bible many times, and yes I do know and understand much of what I have read."

If it was that easy then there would only be one denomination of Christianity and one interpretation and there is not. The bible is just a book of literary genre and myth.

March 18, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
• fred

sam
“Any god that sends people somewhere to suffer for eternity for any reason is a punk b-itch not deserving of worship”
=>You are correct. But, God would never do that. By definition God is eternal perfect goodness and perfect justice in unity. Your image or assumption does not fit with the attributes of the God who is.

March 18, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
• hawaiiguest

I guess fred measures his self-righteousness by how dishonest he is. That would explain a lot.

March 18, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
• Pete

"You are correct. But, God would never do that. By definition God is eternal perfect goodness and perfect justice in unity. Your image or assumption does not fit with the attributes of the God who is."

More lies from the xtians – 220!

March 18, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
• Billy

This is not making any sense. You'd better start over, fred, with "In the beginning . . . "

March 18, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
• Damocles

@topher, oops I mean fred

Ah here we go with the justice angle.

March 18, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
• Paul

" By definition God is eternal perfect goodness"

That's why your God was so dumb that it couldn't see in the future to know what he created was crap, then went oh shit, my creation turned out to be shit, I need to kill them all and start again...but wait, we'll use incest to do that. Oh...that's right the Holy Spirit was suppose to inspire that story too and it still screwed it up. Wow you're worshiping a dumb God like that is pathetic.

March 18, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
• hawaiiguest

@fred

tick, tock. Did you run away already, or is it that you are unable to immediately think of how to do your little word twisting bullshit on that particular post?
Truly you are a pathetic little coward.

March 18, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
• fred

Robert
“The only thing your religion is doing is making you dumber”
=>not really, I can see both sides of the view now. Before I only saw what the world has brainwashed us with. Yes, those comparative religion classes that have their goal of presenting all religion as equally valid. Those books they make you read on the religion of death. Interesting enough is once I believed I could see there is a “world” of difference between God and all the other comparative religions. I could also see that non believers hang up on naturalism is false based on its premise because it relies on evidence from biologic evolution that never touches on the origin of life or reason for existence. All it does is confirm in scientific terms that which is observable. Big deal an confirms what is visible also yet cannot comprehend God.

March 18, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
• hawaiiguest

@fred

LOL That's fucking hilarious.
"Durr once I believed that this particular religion was correct, I could rationalize it to be different than every other religion hee hee".

March 18, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
• fred

G to the T
Very unlikely, once saved always saved. Once a personal relationship has been established you will not be able to sake it. If you have seen the world from Gods perspective that image does not leave. I have come across individuals that bought the shirt because it looked pretty or got them behind security yet they knew God. They knew all about God or adopted their parents God but never had a personal relationship with God.

March 18, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
• fred

Damocles
No, being lustful is the result of living outside the will / presence of God. Adam and Eve had no issues when they were in the presence of Gods will, only when they went outside where they were not to go. Reason, they were not designed to live outside the protection / all encompassing umbrella of Gods goodness. All generations since Adam have lived outside this umbrella.

March 18, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
• Robert

"All it does is confirm in scientific terms that which is observable. Big deal an confirms what is visible also yet cannot comprehend God."

Yup it made you dumber, your God has NEVER been confirmed or comprehended. There is proof the bible is fiction and not made of history or truth. Yup, dumber, like I thought.

March 18, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
• Paul

"Adam and Eve had no issues when they were in the presence of Gods will, only when they went outside where they were not to go."

That's more proof how dumb your God was because it didn't know the future and that they would eat the fruit. What a stupid story but the reality is it's just fiction.

March 18, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
• Pete

"Once a personal relationship has been established you will not be able to sake it."

More lies from the xtians – 221!

Most of the atheists posting here are former xtians or ministers.

March 18, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
• Science

Come on FRED BE NICE the CREATIONISTS are lost over ther on that thread go HELP Paul bethany chad and the gang !

March 18, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
• Damocles

@fred

Riiiiight. So the all powerful, all knowing deity was unable to keep two people from going the wrong way. I tell you one thing, if your deity was a traffic cop, there would be all kinds of needless accidents.

March 18, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
• Science

Oops there

source provided

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/09/my-take-a-word-to-christians-be-nice/

March 18, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
• fred

fred

Billy
That is a great start because in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. So, Hawkings can take a break now we have found what we were looking for. God spoke the universe into being. Let there be an there was. We could have ourselves a lot of money by not building a collider. CERN should have been looking for the God participle not particle. Creating and created are past and present participle examples and they do not affect electroweak symmetry.
Translation: God is outside of our time dimension and spoke baryonic matter into existence. God does not require a quantum field to create mass.

March 18, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
• In Santa we trust

Where's the proof, fred?

March 18, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
• Paul

"So, Hawkings can take a break now we have found what we were looking for. God spoke the universe into being."

There's no proof of that and no we can't take a break now because what brought your God into being.

March 18, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
• fred

Science
Ther there now Science, us creationists know you must recalibrate until such a time as science and the Bible agree God is not made of substance that can be measured or is falsifiable.

March 18, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
• Pete

"God is outside of our time dimension and spoke baryonic matter into existence"

More lies from the xtians 226!

March 18, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
• fred

Damocles
Certainly God could have created such beings but He did not. There is a difference between snapping fingers and creating Damocles Christ like and Damocles becoming Christ like though a process that incorporates who you are as an individual. If it were a snap then there would be nothing of Damocles and only Christ which there already is. Based on our observation clones are not appealing and lose their wonder unless you are looking for a Stepford wife?

March 18, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
• Science

The GOOFY timeline of the bible yea right FRED.!

How OLD is the Earth FREDIE

March 18, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
• Paul

"There is a difference between snapping fingers and creating Damocles Christ like and Damocles becoming Christ like though a process that incorporates who you are as an individual. If it were a snap then there would be nothing of Damocles and only Christ which there already is"

Fred's God is so dumb that it's only capable of snapping it's fingers and only creating one prototype. Oh and it's not all knowing since it should have already known how Damocles would turn out. That's one dumb God.

March 18, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
• fred

Science
If there is God then the earth is as old as God determines it to be as time and space are constructs for a purpose only onto God. God does not give a time certain in the only record we have concerning creation. We have six periods of creation and a period of rest for a total of 7 periods which is often translated as days as each period had beginning (evening) and end (morning).
If there is no God time and space are limited to current knowledge. 4.54 billion years…….Now, how boring is that. Life is better with God real or illusion. There is nothing boring in this universe as everything is in flux and for some reason we think there is a great knowable out there somewhere. Now, step into the light and realize we have changed the age of earth constantly to suit our belief. Thinking that our construct of time and space is all there is could rival the last great belief of a flat earth. I think one day we will all be laughing at our grand beliefs and illusions.

March 18, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
• David

"We have six periods of creation and a period of rest for a total of 7 periods which is often translated as days as each period had beginning (evening) and end (morning).
If there is no God time and space are limited to current knowledge. 4.54 billion years…….Now, how boring is that. Life is better with God real or illusion."

fred's making this up folks because it doesn't fit what is actually describe in the bible all all. fred is a well known liar on this blog.

March 18, 2013 at 5:18 pm |
• fred

Paul
God knows how Damocles will turn out because God is without time and space. You are applying our sequencing of past, present and future periods onto God. This leads to invalid conclusions. Damocles is on a linear time line with beginning and end. God does not have beginning or end only presence as Alpha and Omega are one with God.
You cannot even see in 5 dimensions as man must construct mathematical models to define those vectors.
In short God is eternal with infinite presence that has no boundaries of time as we know it.

March 18, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
• fred

David
Tell, me what does the Bible say about the age of the earth

March 18, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
• Billy

This is more confusing than ever. You'd better start over, fred, with "In the beginning . . . "

March 18, 2013 at 5:55 pm |
• fred

hawaiiguest
“1) What do the Greeks have to do with anything.”
=>Greek Pre-Socratic philosophy is the known foundation of your naturalism beliefs.

=>2% of intelligent earth life are atheist. That is a fact not ad populum. I gave fact 98% do not believe this way. If I said therefore atheists are right or wrong that would be ad populum.

“3) Fallacies do not become valid through more fallacies.”
=>facts remain facts and stand on their evidence regardless of rules of debate.

March 18, 2013 at 6:05 pm |
• fred

Billy
In the beginning God.
OR
alt="\begin{align}\mathcal{L}_{Y} =
&-\lambda_u^{ij}\frac{\phi^0-i\phi^3}{\sqrt{2}}\overline u_L^i u_R^j
+\lambda_u^{ij}\frac{\phi^1-i\phi^2}{\sqrt{2}}\overline d_L^i u_R^j\\
&-\lambda_d^{ij}\frac{\phi^0+i\phi^3}{\sqrt{2}}\overline d_L^i d_R^j
-\lambda_d^{ij}\frac{\phi^1+i\phi^2}{\sqrt{2}}\overline u_L^i d_R^j\\
&-\lambda_e^{ij}\frac{\phi^0+i\phi^3}{\sqrt{2}}\overline e_L^i e_R^j
-\lambda_e^{ij}\frac{\phi^1+i\phi^2}{\sqrt{2}}\overline \nu_L^i e_R^j

March 18, 2013 at 6:17 pm |
• David

"God knows how Damocles will turn out because God is without time and space. You are applying our sequencing of past, present and future periods onto God. This leads to invalid conclusions. Damocles is on a linear time line with beginning and end."

That means your God creates people knowing they will not follow his rules and burn for eternity. That means your God creates people with that in mind, that is evil, not loving, not good, pure evil. You can't put your spin on that as much as you want fred. I do find the lies you have to tell yourself to believe in this God, yet in all these centuries no verifiable proof of the nonsense you are talking about exists.

March 18, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
• Paul

"You cannot even see in 5 dimensions as man must construct mathematical models to define those vectors.
In short God is eternal with infinite presence that has no boundaries of time as we know it."

Yet here you are trying to explain something we don't know the boundaries too, where's your proof of all of this fred? You have to hand it to this guy you must have been addicted to meth since there are so many holes in your theory and your brain.

March 18, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
• Pete

"2% of intelligent earth life are atheist."

more lies from the xtians – 227!

The Global Index of Religiosity and Atheism poll found, on average, that 13 percent of the world population identified themselves as convinced atheists in 2012.

March 18, 2013 at 6:27 pm |
• OK

"facts remain facts and stand on their evidence regardless of rules of debate."

fred you haven't presented any facts at all.

March 18, 2013 at 6:28 pm |
• Don

@Pete "The Global Index of Religiosity and Atheism poll found, on average, that 13 percent of the world population identified themselves as convinced atheists in 2012."

The reason it's rising is because young people nowadays have access to all kinds of information their pastors wouldn't want them to know. Plus the social stigma attached to atheism is declining, and more atheists are coming out of the closet!

Atheists know the truth the church has been trying to hide for centuries otherwise they wouldn't be as wealthy and powerful as they are, it's all lies!

March 18, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
• fred

no, 2.3% of the world population is atheist as of 2011. Show me good numbers for 2012 and I will change my mind.
Until then 98% of the world knows something you don't and to say you know something the 98% does not know requires a lot of evidence. You have none zippo.....................zero.
What you do have is lot of personal reasons why an absolute standard set by God makes you prefer to take risk even if is a chance in hell.

March 18, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
• Susan StoHelit

You're quoting Pascals wager – then saying it isn't?

Why take the risk – you'd best worship Thor too. And Allah. And Shiva. Heck, best check in with the Buddhists – imagine the reincarnation you could be building up to!!!!

Pascals also assumes your god is such a patsy as to buy into a faked belief assumed in order to get a reward of heaven. Pretty gullible god you believe in.

March 18, 2013 at 11:12 pm |
• Don

"no, 2.3% of the world population is atheist as of 2011. Show me good numbers for 2012 and I will change my mind.
Until then 98% of the world knows something you don't and to say you know something the 98% does not know requires a lot of evidence"

You are wrong fred. According to the latest global poll released by RedC Opinion Poll, part of WIN-Gallup Internationa 2012, it shows that on average 59% of the world said that they think of themselves as religious, whereas 23% think of themselves as not religious and 13% think of themselves as convinced atheists. When you factor in the growth rate of atheism averaging across the two measures of atheism, the entire world population would cross the atheist threshold by about 2038.

March 19, 2013 at 8:39 am |
• fred

Don
Yes, I saw those poll numbers and question a jump from 2.3 to 13% in one year so I was waiting for another source.
To your credit if you are correct then you have validated yet another prophecy from the Bible. The End of Days will be as the days of Noah where only a small handful found favor in the eyes of the Lord. Is this what you hope for from an atheist world? Do you know that we have never lived in an atheist world outside of the days of Noah? Do you like the idea of this grand experiment on our great great grandchildren?

March 19, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
• midwest rail

Men have been predicting the "end of days" since roughly 40 A.D. They have all been wrong. So are you.

March 19, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
• hawaiiguest

@fred

98% of people believe something. So fucking what? At one point, a large majority of the world thought the earth was flat.
The amount of people that believe something is irrelevant to whether it's true or not you dishonest little coward. What you're doing is the very definition of an appeal to popularity fallacy.
You're being even more moronic than I usually expect fred. Are you particularly insecure this time, or are you just getting more pathetic as time goes by?

March 19, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
• fred

midwest rail
You also have proven the Bible true once again. The Bible says "no man shal know the day or hour of the last day, it will come upon them like a theif in the night". Thank you for supporting the truth !

March 19, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
• midwest rail

fred – I've done nothing of the sort. You are delusional.

March 19, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
• fred

hawiiguest
When 2.3% of the population makes a claim based on complete lack of acceptable scientific evidence in contrast with 98% that reject their claim using the same evidence it is not an ad populum issue. As with most believers of Philosophical Naturalism, fundamentalists in particular, they fail to see the irony of their appeal to rules of logic and reason.

Are you that lost in this old Greek based philosophy from thousands of years ago that you fail to notice your evidence always ends up with a great unknown? Are you that blind that you somehow think your assertion that “given enough time we will someday find evidence” to support your 2.3% minority position? That is a great hope in the promise of from your man made god. Tell me how is it any better than my great hope in the promise of God? I have proof that God has fulfilled every promise he has made to me yet you counter with oh it was just a coincidence. There seems to be a mental disconnect here. I have personal evidence based on real personal experience and you say it was just a long shot that odds would support it as a random event. So what you are saying is your opinion is greater than my personal observable experience. You have no evidence to back that up. When prayer is answered and sudden healing results you say it is unknown as to cause so no God needed.
The bottom line for atheists is the unknowable and unknown that by definition has no evidence outweighs the core instinct of 98% of the population. You are the black sheep in the middle of the herd claiming that just because all the other sheep are white does not make me black. Someday all sheep will be black based upon the ad populum rule of logic. Take note it does not apply when dealing with available evidence.

March 19, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
• Billy

Now you're talking ad populum this and ad populum that. You'd better start over again from the beginning, fred. "In the beginning . ." I think I'm starting to see that part, but it doesn't really say where the beginning came from. No sir.

March 19, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
• hawaiiguest

@fred

You are getting more pathetic. What "claim" did I make? What "evidence" did I not present? Or is it, that you think that not blindly accepting a claim is the same as claiming the opposite? No wonder you're such a huge moron. You continue to say you have proof, and yet when challenged, you never give that proof.
How about you actually do something honestly, and PRESENT YOUR FUCKING EVIDENCE like I've been asking you to do for months now instead of your irrelevant, fallacious, dishonest bullshit you self-righteous, cowardly little troll.

March 19, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
• fred

midwest rail
“Men have been predicting the "end of days" since roughly 40 A.D. They have all been wrong. So are you.”
=>Predictions made by man as to end of days will be wrong according to the Bible. You just said all predictions have been and will be wrong. You support the words of Jesus as written and if you have evidence to support your claim (we are aware of many such claims that failed to materialize) you have proven the Bible true and correct as to this prophecy.

March 19, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
• Don

"The End of Days will be as the days of Noah where only a small handful found favor in the eyes of the Lord. Is this what you hope for from an atheist world? "

There was no day of Noah, that is a hoax. There are societies already becoming less religious and the more they remove religion from their society the more happier and healthier that societies becomes.

March 19, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
• fred

hawaiiguest
You made the claim that 2.3% of the population (atheists) beliefs are correct and 98% of the populations beliefs are wrong just as they were wrong about the earth being flat. This puts the burdon of proof on you because you made the claim. It is the atheist that does not have evidence to support his or her position that is based on belief not fact or evidence of any kind.

March 19, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
• hawaiiguest

@fred

Are you just stupid, or willing to be that transparently dishonest?

March 19, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
• Pete

"You support the words of Jesus as written and if you have evidence to support your claim (we are aware of many such claims that failed to materialize) you have proven the Bible true and correct as to this prophecy."

More lies from the xitans 228! Well duh moron, they've been doing since your religion was formed, it mean the prophecy has been wrong over and over again, making it a lie.

March 19, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
• Don

@HG definitely dishonest, his posts reek of it.

March 19, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
• fred

Don
Yes, people were much happier under Stalin, Mao and Poll Pot. Every poll ever taken shows that people who attend church regularly are much happier than those who do not. Those are the numbers and they have not changed.
You may find a society that fits your ideal of atheism but that happiness is the result of abundance or met needs not lack of religion.

March 19, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
• fred

Billy
You see beginning from the viewpoint of man that only knows past, present and future. After thousands of years of evolution and adaptation to sequential time periods these are all you know or can know. This is why you ask what was in the beginning because it must come before the sequence.
God is. This initial, current and past state of being is not sequential as it just is. God is the Alpha and Omega does not signify time line rather unity or infinite expansion of eternal presence.

March 19, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
• Don

"Those are the numbers and they have not changed."

Why are you constantly being dishonest in this discussion? The polls show that more and more people are leaving the church, so yes those numbers have to change. Six in 10 young people will leave the church permanently or for an extended period starting at age 15, according to new research by the Barna Group 2012.

March 19, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
• Don

"Yes, people were much happier under Stalin, Mao and Poll Pot."

Christians always use this dishonest line too when backed in a corner and they don't have any facts to back up their lies.

March 19, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
• fred

Don
The numbers were pew studies on the general level of peace and happiness of regular church attendees vs those who do not attend. The numbers are not impacted by the change in population size or demographics of regular church attendees.

March 19, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
• In Santa we trust

fred
"When 2.3% of the population makes a claim based on complete lack of acceptable scientific evidence in contrast with 98% that reject their claim using the same evidence"

All the scientific evidence shows that the biblical stories are incorrect. Apart from a few people and places, no science supports the bible. Why do you cling to the superstitions of stone age goatherders when science has shown that their explanations of their world are incorrect? If there is a god, there has been no evidence of it since the Big Bang.

March 19, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
• Don

"The numbers are not impacted by the change in population size or demographics of regular church attendees."

Now, you're being dishonest again it has too have an impact, if more people are leaving then it demonstrates they are unhappy and yes the numbers should reflect that.

March 19, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
• Don

Oh, and the other dishonest thing you're doing is comparing an entire country to a church. I said there are countries that are showing the more they move away from religion the happier they are, the top four happiest countries on earth have some of the smallest populations of religious people.

March 19, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
• End Religion - and Trust Jesus Christ

@ In Santa we trust

God is real. Usually our pride and arrogance gets in the way. Regardless, there are plenty of people of sound mind and judgement that believe in God. Sorry we can't recreate Him in a lab for you.

Good luck on your search for God. Keep coming back!

March 19, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
• End Religion - and Trust Jesus Christ

@Don

How did you determine which countries are the happiest?

Is this like one of those lame magazine articles that magazines put out for free publicity? The 10 Best Cities to Raise a Child, The 10 Best Cities for Single Females, The 10 Happiest Cities in the World...

March 19, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
• Don

Oh and fred from the poll you're referring too. "It is also noteworthy that nonreligious Americans have slightly better emotional health than their moderately religious counterparts, revealing a non-linear relationship between religiosity and emotional wellbeing"

March 19, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
• In Santa we trust

End Religion – and Trust Jesus Christ

Show some evidence that the creation stories in the bible are correct. Show some evidence that there is a god. Then show some evidence that it is your god. Presumably you don't believe in Zeus, Kokopelli, Lono, Odin, etc. as that must be a prerequisite to believing in your god.- what evidence do you have that they do not exist?

March 19, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
• Don

"How did you determine which countries are the happiest?"

Oh this is coming from the lame person who can't come up with their own name. LOL! I didn't do it idiot, Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development did.

March 19, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
• Don

"God is real."

Since you're making the claim, prove it.

March 19, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
• End Religion - and Trust Jesus Christ

@ PROVE IT. NOW. GRRRRRR. I DEMAND IT.

🙂 You are on your own walk with God.

Good luck on your search, and keep coming back. More will be revealed later.

Don't be afraid to get down on your knees and ask God for help.

It really works.

March 19, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
• hawaiiguest

@fred

I'm still waiting for to answer whether you're just stupid or willing to be transparently dishonest.

March 19, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
• Don

@End Religion – and Trust Jesus Christ

So in other words, you don't have proof and you only here to troll. That's what I thought.

March 19, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
• End Religion - and Trust Jesus Christ

"Prove God to me in a message board," – you.

Keep coming back. God is on your mind – He is working on your heart. 🙂

March 19, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
• End Religion - and Trust Jesus Christ

I am a lying troll for Satan, yes keep posting so I can prove what a jerk I am because I don't have a real life and I suffer from low self esteem issues. I am a bully.

March 19, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
• fred

hawaiiguest
You still need to learn the use of the word dishonest. Belief in God and what the Bible says is no more dishonest than your belief in the unknown and the philosophy of the Greeks.

March 19, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
• LOL!

fred's being dishonest again, nice spinning there fred, but you still fail.

March 19, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
• hawaiiguest

@fred

"You made the claim that 2.3% of the population (atheists) beliefs are correct and 98% of the populations beliefs are wrong just as they were wrong about the earth being flat."
Try reading back to that post. I made no such equivocation. I challenged your use of an ad populum fallacy and showing that the propensity of an idea does not make it true.
So either you're just too stupid to grasp what I was talking about, or you're being intentionally dishonest and misrepresenting what I said.
So which is it? Should I start calling you Opey or Luther?

March 19, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
• Don

"Keep coming back. God is on your mind – He is working on your heart"

I am a former Christian, so you're lying.

March 19, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
• fred

In Santa We Trust
“All the scientific evidence shows that the biblical stories are incorrect.”
=>hardly because science deals with baryonic matter and is limited to measurement of baryonic matter while the Bible is the story about God redeeming a people.

“ Why do you cling to the superst-itions of stone age goatherders when science has shown that their explanations of their world are incorrect? “
=>Science clings to the unknown as that makes any greater sense. Science does what God intended it do but is limited to matter that was created by God not the things of God.

“If there is a god, there has been no evidence of it since the Big Bang.”
=>The evidence of God is the creation. That includes the revelations of Moses and Jesus as well as your awareness of existence. I am sorry you cannot sense something more than organic matter reacting to stimuli existing in a temporary state.

March 19, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
• fred

hawaiiguest
What you fail to understand is that God has given me proof time and time again as to the promises in the Bible. If 1% or 99% had that experience which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that God is who He says then that belief trumps your opinion of that individuals belief and is not ad populum fallacy.
If I said 98% believe in God therefore God exists (without evidence) only then would you be correct.

March 19, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
• Jennifer

" I am sorry you cannot sense something more than organic matter reacting to stimuli existing in a temporary state."

All you are experiencing is a chemical reaction in your brain that you are attributing to your belief in a God, it doesn't make it real. Scientists have been able to induce religious experiences and sensations in people by applying a weak magnetic field over the temporal lobes and by injecting subjects with hallucinogens.

March 19, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
• ME II

@fred,
Probably just a slip, but my understanding is that "baryonic matter" does not include things like neutrinos, dark matter, nor black holes, all of which are things that science deals with regularly.

March 19, 2013 at 4:38 pm |
• In Santa we trust

fred

Whatever the bible purports to do, it makes claims in Genesis which the scientific evidence shows are not correct.

Science does not cling to disproven theories. The fact that something is unknown does not mean that a god did it and especially is not an endorsement of your god.

God is not evidence of anything. There is no evidence of any god including yours. The bible contains explanations of the universe and life devised by peoples that did not have our knowledge. We have learned much since those days and know that the majority of the bible is not fact, yet you prefer ancient superstition to knowledge.

March 19, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
• Ayn Rand

fred, that dark, incoherent passion within you, which you take as the voice of god is nothing more than the corpse of your mind

March 19, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
• hawaiiguest

@fred

So you've gone from an ad populum saying "a god exists because 98% of the population believe in something", to the god of the bible is real because I say so. Not to mention the number of people who believe in YOUR concept of god has magically skyrocketed to 98%? You really are just dishonest. Martin Luther would be proud.

March 19, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
• In Santa we trust

fred "... facts remain facts and stand on their evidence regardless of rules of debate."

Yet you produce no facts to back up your belief that there is a god, that that god is the one you believe in, or that the bible is factual.

March 19, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
• fred

ME II
Yes, I was thinking about all familiar matter in the universe. God is not made of matter that we are familiar with so I include the substance of God in with the non baryonic simply because we cannot see God. I should use “all known forms of matter and energy” to be clear. Thanks
As to baryonic dark matter candidates I thought they were confirmed yet non baryonic dark matter remained a matter of speculation.

March 20, 2013 at 1:36 am |
• fred

In Santa we trust
I am not aware as you say that science has proven the Bible wrong. I will admit to a few questionable points. I would be interested in the top two points you find wrong in Bible based on scientifically accepted evidence.
Thanks

March 20, 2013 at 1:41 am |
• .

"I am not aware as you say that science has proven the Bible wrong."

* the bat is a bird (Lev. 11:19, Deut. 14:11, 18);
* Some fowls are four-footed (Lev. 11:20-21);
* Some creeping insects have four legs. (Lev. 11:22-23);
* Hares chew the cud (Lev. 11:6);
* Conies chew the cud (Lev. 11:5);
* Camels don't divide the hoof (Lev. 11:4);
* The earth rest on pillars (1 Sam. 2:8);
* The earth won't be moved (1Chron. 16:30);
* A hare does not divide the hoof (Deut. 14:7);
* The rainbow is not as old as rain and sunshine (Gen. 9:13);
* A mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds and grows into the greatest of all shrubs (Matt. 13:31-32 RSV);
* Turtles have voices (Song of Sol. 2:12);
* The earth has ends or edges (Job 37:3);
* The earth has four corners (Isa. 11:12, Rev. 7:1);
* Some 4-legged animals fly (Lev. 11:21);
* The world's language didn't evolve but appeared suddenly (Gen. 11:6-9)
* A fetus can understand speech (Luke 1:44).
* The moon is a light source like the sun (Gen 1:16)

March 20, 2013 at 11:08 am |
19. TheNightOwl

I, for one, think he looks more like Voltaire.

March 18, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
• PCM

-more like the Jedi

March 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
20. Christianity is a form of SEVERE mental illness

I watched part of the series knowing it is complete fantasy. What is amazing is people actually believe the fantasy.

March 18, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
• TheNightOwl

That is coming from a Leftist Democrat who worships Buddha or some Hindu God.

March 18, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
• Christianity is a form of SEVERE mental illness

Actually I am a conservative.

March 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
• NCT

The Bible is a HISTORY book worth knowing like any other History book. It accounts what God has done for humanity.
For all you who discredit it, you must all discredit every other book as well. There were no wars then, there was no Roman Empire, no Napolean, no Hitler. I only read about those in books so I refuse to believe them too.

March 18, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
• Truth Prevails :-)

Hitler, Napolean etc can be verified to have existed...you can't say the same about your god (no your book of fable aka the bible is not evidence).

March 18, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
• sam

NCT just went so far off the deep end that there's no point in yelling for a lifeguard.

March 18, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
• NCT

SAM, that's ok, I can walk on water with Christ.

March 18, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
• sam

I need a rimshot over here!

March 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
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