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EW: 'The Bible' finale ratings rival 'The Walking Dead'
Jesus as played by Portuguese actor Diogo Morgado, in 'The Bible' miniseries
April 2nd, 2013
11:33 AM ET

EW: 'The Bible' finale ratings rival 'The Walking Dead'

By James Hibberd, EW.com

(Entertainment Weekly)–History’s The Bible miniseries finale delivered the show’s largest audience since its record-setting premiere. The network reports that 11.7 million viewers watched the two-hour conclusion on Easter Sunday, despite The Bible airing against heavy cable competition during its second hour — AMC’s The Walking Dead had its season finale and HBO’s Game of Thrones had its season premiere, with both geek titans setting ratings records.

In fact, during the 9 p.m. hour when The Bible and The Walking Dead ran head to head, the shows were basically tied with 12.3 million viewers (The Walking Dead rises to 12.4 million when you include its full 65-minute telecast). It’s a strong performance for the religious miniseries that few expected to be a ratings competitor.

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bible • TV

soundoff (486 Responses)
  1. Ghostriver Studios

    Reblogged this on Ghost River Studios Blog.

    April 2, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
  2. ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

    Racism by form is way of hindus, racist by faith , called hinduism, racism of hindu dark ages, human are not body, but a spirit, having human experience by truth absolute GOD, foundation of universe and consti tution of USA. Body is a matter, impacted by environment, but spirit is constant in its form. Denied by hindus racist by faith to hind fool humanity in to hindu gentile ism, filthy slavery of hindu Jews, filthy secular s, deniers of truth absolute GOD.
    human creation proven by Quantum physics.
    By quantum physics, everything is dependent on dark matter or program, otherwise known as Spirit, truth of human to be in physical form. Spirit, programs appear in male body after reaching age of puberty by will of Allah, certain matter from blood of man is attracted to spirit on 125 volts. produced by function of human body, after attachment of matter to spirit, matter takes form of sperm, a living being, transferred to woman's body to grow into human form according to spirit, program, otherwise known as seeded, not physically but spiritually programmed.
    Woman has no other function in human life but to mother a child, a greatest service, man cannot do without, reason for a children to carry their fathers name. Heritage of person is physically attached to man's linage, not woman.
    Please visit limitisthetruth.com to learn hinduism criminality of hindus crooks against truth absolute GOD and HIS humanity, desire.

    April 2, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      That is so hot.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • STFU

      followers of Mohammad have no business being here, get lost

      April 2, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      A claim by a hindu secular, stupid baboon by his hindu ignorant soul, desire, having nothing to do with truth absolute. Go to hind, hell, with your hindu Atheism, ignorant self center ism, hindu, ignorant, from hindered gutter of hindu secular ism, filthy monkey ism called india.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Still taking the unrighteous path, I read, phony heavensent?

      April 2, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • STFU

      STFU you goon of Mohammad,

      April 2, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Gay follower of Isam.

      Hey Islam, do you want to put it in my butt? Cause I'm down.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • mzh

      Dear "IFOAC":
      I am not sure if you are talking for Islam or against Islam… all your posting are totally confusing… and I would say if you posting as Muslim, you are putting the incorrect information… one of the incorrect message is “Spirit, programs appear in male body after reaching age of puberty by will of Allah” and there are lot more… my humble advise to you is to educate yourself and then post or stop posting which you may be responsible to let others incorrectly know about Islam…

      I don’t which part of the world are you from… if you are from Indian continent part of the world then I would say that one of your forefather was hindu and I would not suggest you to look hindu followers down… as Quran commanded Muhamma pbuh in one of the chapter (Ad Duha 93) that do not look down to orphan and poor as you were orphan and poor and you have been given the message, so do not look down to them… there are lots of lessons here in this chapter of the quran… one of the lessons is, you be thankful to your Creator that you are a Muslim (if you are which I do not know and ur positing also does not make me thinking that you are a Muslim) and you keep supplicating for them so that they will be guided as you were… and do not take anything granted… you never know… today you are a muslim, may be tomorrow you will change your mind for some worldly benefits (as the Iranian born and raised Muslim converted to Christianity and there are more examples) and will become a polytheist and you will dies as polytheist.. and Quran commands human/mankind not to end this earthly life without being in submission to One True God which is Muslim…. So please thank The Lord Almighty for what you have and keep supplicating for the rest so that they can also be guided the way you have been guided… I hope it will help you…

      About the Hinduism you are talking about: the Hinduism started from Indus Valley Civilization which is by the Indus Valley river and this is situated east part of current Pakistan… so prior to the start of this civilization they were something else… and this is actually proves that the hindu culture is not the most ancient culture but Muslim is the culture which has been since the day one of the creation of mankind… so what we see today the Hinduism is nothing but the teaching of Chandragupta Maurya the first hindu Mayryan empire… and human kept following it as it is blindly but I think these days there are lots of hindus in different parts India are being reverted to Islam…

      April 2, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • Toad

      Cuz we know Allah ain't quite powerful enough to get his story out himself. What a joke mzh. You must be pretty stupid.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      mzh, filthy kenjer dog, pretending to be muslim

      April 2, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      hinduism, absurdity of a hindu, copy cat.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • mzh

      Dear IFOAC: your statements shows that you are not a Muslim or uneducated Muslim or Muslim by only name and spreading the wrong things about Islam around the mankind… you know why? You call human as ‘Donkey’ or ‘filthy’ or so on… subhanallah (Glory to The Almighty who has no partners and no sons and no association and how is so merciful to the entire creation) Quran call following about the entire creation and the creation of human:

      Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay. – 32:2

      By the fig and the olive, And [by] Mount Sinai, And [by] this secure city [Makkah], We have certainly created man in the best of stature; – 95:1-4

      And you are calling a human regardless of his/her faith as donkey and others… aren’t you contradicting yourself?

      Well, I wish you the best…

      To Dear Toad:
      There is only One Power who is THE creator of the heavens and the earth and anything between them which of course included human… there is no second power…. Its human comes up with their idea and associates whatever they feel by using their “free will” given to them by their Creator… and every single one of human will be standing in front of The Power on that day where there will no counselor to talk on behalf of him… his own limbs will be testifying against him… I am glad that you attributed me with that… actually its not something new in this time… its been there since the beginning… i.e. every prophet were called madman by their people… lets just take the example of Jesus that during his time he was called whatever the Jew at that time called him and until today including the followers are also making him what he was not… its like accusing someone with something that he was… but does anyone being punished in this life? NO, every accountability will be on that day… also from that day there will be no coming back and doing good things and go back… they will be told that you had your chance… even Quran gives example what they will be wishing to be… they will be wishing to be a dust so that dust will not have to go thru the judgment…

      We ask The Almighty to have mercy on all of us and judge us with His mercy and not His justice… amin

      April 2, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • Alex

      Go sell crazy somewhere else

      April 3, 2013 at 12:55 am |
  3. BRC

    @Topher,
    So, if "God" hadn't seen fit to send Jesus yet, if for the last 2000 years people would still haev been living under the "Law", so long as tehy kept up with the covenent they would be admitted to heaven when they died correct?

    April 2, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
  4. mzh

    I wonder why ppl has difficulties to accept who he (pbuh) was... rather making him what he was not like black, white, European, Chinese, Spanish, Indians and so on... this may actually prove that how week these human are in their faith that they can't/don't accept the fact...

    I also want to share this with my brothers and sisters in mankind: why ppl takes a media to worship straight to The Lord Almighty alone (monotheistic) who is The Creator of entire universe and has no partners, no sons and so on...

    If you read Luke, in one of the chapters you will find that in the same page that human are being told to worship the father and later human are being told to come thru the son which is keeping a media to worship straight to The Lord Almighty... if you go back and study all the prophets and messengers time, you will find none taught their community to worship other than one true God The Almighty and have no media bwtn.... but here you see ppl are being asked or told or taught to have a media between you and your creator... why? the answer is easy for the one who would think and use the brain.... i will give an example for the answer and i will assume you will know the answer...
    An employee reports to his manager and the manager is his cousin or close relative and the manager reports to the director, now if the employee does some mistakes which the director may have been informed, then the employee would go to his manager as the manager is his close relative to talk for him to the director....
    A human commits a sin and some whisperers makes that human not to go straight to the Lord Almighty but to make a counselor to talk on behalf of him and he is a sinner... and the human end up taking the middle man as The God and also making the middle man as equivalent to The Lord Almighty...
    There could be lot more examples but it applies only to those who are willing to accept the truth and get out of the darknessess of polytheism.... this has been in this mankind since the time of Noah and its not something new… human comes to this earth, lives with polytheism and dies… but whoever is living now, its your responsibility to dig the truth and accept and do not follow the forefathers who may have been incorrectly informed… and they listened to them and passed it on to the next generation and next generations….

    April 2, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      Dear mzh, you are a hindu crook donkey by faith pretending to be Muslim, absurdity of fake muslim , Islam, Hebrew teachings or teachings of son of blessed Mary were never about Islam, but truth absolute, not even about prophet Muhammad, so much so, word Islam does not exist in Hebrew language or in holy Quran which you read, but Tin Allah, consti tution of truth absolute, otherwise known as Law of nature in America. Islam was created by corruption of truth absolute to justify hinduism racism and existence of kings and their prophets, fortune tellers as CONSTANTINE, forever man gods of humanity, open your eyes, open to reason of conflict among humanity.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      hinduism, stupidity of a hindu copy cat.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • Parrot of Muhammed

      squaw squaw Induu Induu squake squake Induu moh mad malo squaw squaw malo

      April 2, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
  5. Hubert

    WOOO, zombies top the ratings.

    April 2, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
  6. Bootyfunk

    christians like to think jesus suffered more than any human on earth - wrong. he was beaten and crucified, as were everyone else around him on crosses. the spanish inquisition (with the pope's authority) tortured people much worse and for much longer than jesus supposedly suffered. the romans crucified thousands of people. jesus wasn't special.

    April 2, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Booty, at least have the integrity to hate us for what we are, not for what we are not.
      Near the outset of the Inquisition, in a letter of April 14, 1482, Pope Sixtus IV instructed the Spanish to ensure due process, allow legal counsel and appeal to Rome.[53] King Ferdinand defiantly rejected Papal control, the Inquisition becoming thereafter a tool of the monarchy, rather than the church.[53] In 1483, Ferdinand made Torquemada the Inquisitor General of most areas of Spain.[53] Its procedures were set out in various Instrucciones issued by the successive Inquisitors General, Torquemada, Deza, and Valdés.

      And Jesus was not tortured more than any other person. He was simply the only one tortured who bore no sin.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll. The itinerant rabble rousing preacher known as jesus committed crimes against the state, for which he was crucified, if you believe he existed at all. Sin can be in the eye of the beholder and jesus at least got his kangaroo court (Noah's fault, should never allowed roo's on the ark).

      April 2, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
  7. HeavenSent

    Topher, 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 and 2 Chronicles 18:18-22 is a must read at this time.

    April 2, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      I hold the book light in my ass because I get a better angle reading in bed that way.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • The Fishing

      the AnViL™

      this giggles person is displaying clear signs of a paranoid delusion.

      they believe that certain posters here are this dorothy person – from some flame war spanning several other websites.

      it's amusing to watch the schizos become all unhinged when anyone points them out for what they are:

      mentally ill, delusional, retarded, bigoted, hate-filled, disturbed, idiots.

      (and that's putting it nicely)

      April 2, 2013 at 10:52 am | Report abuse | Reply

      The real Tom

      What is WITH this "dorothy" thing, anyway? Really, biggies and lol (or are they one and the same) write nothing but gibberish-and boring gibberish at that.

      April 2, 2013 at 11:23 am | Report abuse |

      the AnViL™

      that is a very good question: who is this dorothy?

      as it is with all crazies – if you sit still and watch – eventually they'll tell you all about the precise nature of the bug up their ass..

      in this particular instance – the dorothy business as it relates to this blog – are direct references to Acharya S, whose real name is Dorothy M. Murdock – an author of some arguably controversial books that appear to have caused some butthurt among a few mentally unstable folks.

      it would seem – this is all boil-over from several threads on the skeptics and truthbeknown websites – and what appears to be a flame war that raged across these sites a few years ago.

      the antagonist was banned – and – while it's only speculative – it seems they've found a new home here.

      funny stuff

      April 2, 2013 at 11:35 am | Report abuse |

      The real Tom

      Do they know about the alien corpses hidden in Area 51? What about the second shooter on the grassy knoll in Dallas? And the moon landing-they know it was faked, right?

      April 2, 2013 at 11:37 am | Report abuse |

      the AnViL™

      oh – by the way – the real tom... in case you didn't already know....

      i'm dorothy... you're dorothy... damocles, end religion, tttoo, hot air ace, sam stone, meii, saraswati, clarity, science, virtually EVERYONE who posts anything that could be considered antichristian is dorothy.

      we're all dorothy and we must be reported and censored.

      April 2, 2013 at 11:45 am | Report abuse |

      Damocles

      I'm a dorothy, he's a dorothy, she's a dorothy.... wouldn't you like to be a dorothy too? Be a dorothy, be, be a dorothy.

      April 2, 2013 at 11:51 am | Report abuse |

      tallulah13

      Surrender Dorothy.

      April 2, 2013 at 11:52 am | Report abuse |

      Science

      dorthery .....................................code name for the LIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (spam comes in a can)

      April 2, 2013 at 12:06 pm | Report abuse |

      Lola Bunch

      Well, good grief...does HS subscribe to this theory? Because I notice that she does the same thing...

      April 2, 2013 at 2:11 pm | Report abuse |

      April 2, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • Book Light Brown

      Pretty tough to hold a light with all that head in there...

      April 2, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • End Religion

      there isn't a word of it that is a "must read."

      April 2, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The Fishing, afraid that water will melt your perfect evil. LOL.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • Science

      Again HS........................................ if you can understand the article .......................it will help !

      Origin of Life: Natural Cause no god(s) required.

      Hypothesis Traces First Protocells Back to Emergence of Cell Membrane Bioenergetics

      December 20, 2012 — A coherent pathway – which starts from no more than rocks, water and carbon dioxide and leads to the emergence of the strange bio-energetic properties of living cells – has been traced for the ...

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/fossils_ruins/origin_of_life/

      April 3, 2013 at 6:14 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Science, read this passage slowly so that some truth sinks in.

      The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they [are] vanity.

      Psalms 94:11

      Amen.

      April 3, 2013 at 10:34 am |
    • HeavenScvnt

      You carnal queen, don't bother watching there is no full frontal nu-dity.

      April 3, 2013 at 10:44 am |
  8. Puppies and Kittens Taste Delicious When Cooked Properly

    I find it both repulsive and astonishing that the History channel has begun airing fiction.

    April 2, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • History Channel's "The Bible" Parts 3 & 4 - In Under 11 Minutes!

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTRn28iZD_g&w=640&h=360]

      April 2, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      You could look at it more like the history of the bible, one of the greatest pieces of fiction ever created by men, and at the same time, one of the biggest scams of all time. Historic indeed.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • William Demuth

      I refer to it as the "Hitler Channel.

      It is actually a sham of a station of late, with more Fundi nonesense than ever, with UFO and conspiracy hogwash thrown in.

      It probably should be called the Jeebus and Freinds Channel.

      A shame really, clouding more simpletons minds than ever before

      April 2, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • tallulah13

      No kidding. The history channel spends a lot of time on mythology. TV is a pretty tragic wasteland. I'm thinking of ditching cable and just going with Hulu. I hate the fact that my exorbitant cable payment is paying for tripe like "The Bible", the Duggars and Honey Boo Boo.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      It has been a long time since it was the Hitler Channel.

      It is now the Duck Dynasty / Big Shrimpin' / Pawn Stars / Ice Road Truckers / Axe Men / whatever reality du jour channel.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • History Channel

      Everyone knows that Americans have the only history that God cares about so I just ignore the rest of planet unless it's someplace named in the bible where we get to have the final war, that will make for some good TV... we'll sell lot's of ad time when the American religious war set's up on the plains of Meggedo...

      April 2, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      tallulah, I thought the History Channel was run by atheists. They haven't hit the mark on His truth yet.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      HS
      That's because jesus' truth isn't. If it cannot be proven, it isn't truth.
      Stop lying.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      AB, you nonbelievers prove Jesus correct when He explained why fools refuse to learn His wisdom.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Sell your TV. Read more before they make it obsolete

      April 2, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll. Bill, rip out all your stained glass windows and let the clear light of day shine in, through a glass darkly indeed.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
  9. William Demuth

    I believe you might find Harry Potter beats them both.

    Does that mean we are a nation of Sorcerer worshipers?

    CNN, your lack of actual substance is alarming.

    April 2, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "CNN, your lack of actual substance is alarming."

      Consider the source – the piece is from "Entertainment Weekly", or as I think of it ew (ewwww) . com.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
  10. William Demuth

    Makes perfect sense

    Same plot

    Zombie's rise from the dead and try and rule the world, while rational men fight to the death to resist them

    Zombies have ALWAYS been about evangelical Christians. Mindless corpses trying to devour the minds of the living by infecting them with a virus that destroys their minds.

    To end the carnage we MUST cut their heads offf! We must find Z1, the source of the infection!

    Rumour has it the Romans failed to install the last of the four nails, and by overlooking the one in Christ's forehead, we are forever since cusred with the mindless undead.

    April 2, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @William,

      yes, that's what I thought when I saw the headline.

      Walking dead v. resurrection.

      Both about the undead.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
  11. T Diemer

    Believer or not, the Bible is some of the world's best literature. I was expecting it to be good. As far as getting good ratings, it is no wonder it did considering that most of the things on history channel and cabel in general is garbage – stupid reality shows etc. Anything even half way decent would garner an audience.

    April 2, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • David

      American Idol had a viewership of 37 million at it's peak, the bible was just over 13 million for it's first and most watched episode. To draw the conclusion that the bible got great numbers because of content and story must mean American Idol must have had three times as much content and story right? Either that or there are just a huge number of easily swayed morons living in America with the collective brain power of a gerbil and can be entertained with nothing more than a spinning wheel.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I tried reading the bible. I found it dry and rather misogynistic. The Iliad, on the other hand, is very compelling reading.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      tallulah13, still placing the blame on your perception.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
  12. Vic

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ6kQCrPBmo&w=640&h=360]

    April 2, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
  13. Joel Oilsheen

    I have way more oil in my hair than the guy in the picture. I should be Jesus with my divine greasy hair. Actually, I am.

    April 2, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • Joel

      Frack my hair this morning! No, litteraly, frack my hair....it's the next best strategic oil reserve America has after the whale blubber oil reserve we keep stored inside Rush Limbaugh...

      April 2, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
  14. Alias

    Is this religious propaganda to convert people?
    Or is it just another attempt to bring in viewers like they did with the alien shows?
    Either way, I cannot take any christian seriously when they have to change the race of their 'savior' to make him more appealing to his folowers.

    April 2, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Men made god in his image, so it only follows that people would give him their traits when portraying him.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • Chuckles

      I just wish they had jewwed him up a lot more. Given him some funny looking glasses, a Woody Allen voice, and had his mom following him with some kugel or something yelling "Jesus! You're skin and bones! Eat!!"

      I would have been way more true to the bible than the current incarnation.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
    • Daniel

      I'm jutglad that after getting Christ cleaned up and shaved and flown back to the U.S. we got him working to protect the streets of NY on Person of Interest...

      April 2, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      AB, amazing, you ignored the first chapter of the first book to write a lie.

      Genesis 1:26-28

      26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

      27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

      28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

      Amen.

      April 2, 2013 at 6:03 pm |
  15. Put-up or shut-up

    Dr. Joseph Mastropaolo, a man with a degree in kinesiology, is offering $10,000 to anyone who can “scientifically disprove the Bible’s creation story.” Dr. Mastropaolo money.is a creationist and dares any evolution theory lovin’ schlub to come try and take his money.
    Your negitive remarks mean nothing if you can't give an inteligent answer. I supose that if some evolutionist were to make the same offer there would be no takers, because both theoriies are just speculative.
    (When I learned how sicentist did aging on fossils I sid to myself–what a farce! The age arrond the fossil is suppose to give the age of the fossil? How does that prove anything except the age of a stone?

    April 2, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Exactly what would this guy accept as evidence and proof?
      The "creation story"...what part...there are many portions of the "creation: story that have been proven false already, so the bible interpretation suddenly changes in an attempt to match reality.. So what criteria is this guy looking for?
      And then how do you get the bible interpreters to not change their interporetation when proof is offered as that has been done so many times in the past.

      This is a fools errand since the goal will move as soon as you reach it.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Doobs

      A degree in Kinesiology? Wow, how impressive.

      He must be the top dog in membership sales at the local Gold's Gym.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
    • *

      Put-up or shut-up,

      Do you really expect anyone to think that you are the least bit "inteligent" with that abomination of the English language?!

      April 2, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
    • Ed

      We have the fossils, so Christian creationists lose. It's that simple.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Paul

      Do you think anyone will think you are intelligent when you deny that evolution happens?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • Ed

      And ditto what Doobs said.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Just finished researching this "doctor JM. He is a self proclaimed creation scientist. What he does not seem to realize is there is no such thing. He could be if there was an actual scientific theory of creation, which there is not. Intelligent design is just a rehash of creationism, which is not a theory, so cannot be scientifically studied.

      He is also a laughing stock within the scientific community and he even notes this in one article (that the others pick on him).

      There is no such thing as a creation scientist.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • Put-up or shut-up

      @ Richard C: Ask him, I didn't make the challenge. Go to his wbsite; just google his name.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Pu or SU
      I did...He is no scientist, not when it comes to this subject. He has not accepted all of the information disproving the bible to this point, and since he isn't a scientist in this matter, he doesn't have to, His challenge will never be met as his criteria is ridiculous, and not in the slightest scientific.

      He wants the proof given in a courtroom format, which is ridiculous...scientists do not use this format for anything.

      This guy is just a nut job ( according to one of his colleagues)

      April 2, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Put-up or shut-up

      @Doobs: Are you just going to ridicule or take advantage of this persapns challenge? That iks the way with you liberals, if youcan't say something intelligent youname call or change the subject. I just accidently found this challenge on the net and passed it along. Go to his website, google his name.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Colin

      First and most obviously is the fossil record. The fossil record is much, much more than just dinosaurs. Indeed, dinosaurs only get the press because of their size, but they make up less than 1% of the entire fossil record. Life had been evolving on Earth for over 3 thousand million years before dinosaurs evolved and has gone on evolving for 65 million years after the Chicxulub meteor likely wiped them out.

      The fossil record includes the Stromatolites, colonies of prokaryotic bacteria, that range in age going back to about 3 billion years, the Ediacara fossils from South Australia, widely regarded as among the earliest multi-celled organisms, the Cambrian species of the Burgess shale in Canada (circa – 450 million years ago) the giant scorpions of the Silurian Period, the giant, wingless insects of the Devonian period, the insects, amphibians, reptiles, fishes, clams, crustaceans of the Carboniferous Period, the many precursors to the dinosaurs, the 700 odd known species of dinosaurs themselves, the subsequent dominant mammals, including the saber tooth tiger, the mammoths and hairy rhinoceros of North America and Asia, the fossils of early man in Africa and the Neanderthals of Europe.

      The fossil record shows a consistent and worldwide evolution of life on Earth dating back to about 3,500,000,000 years ago. There are literally millions of fossils that have been recovered, of thousands of different species and they are all located where they would be in the geological record if life evolved slowly over billions of years. None of them can be explained by a 6,000 year old Earth and Noah’s flood. Were they all on the ark? What happened to them when it docked?

      A Tyrannosaurus Rex ate a lot of food – meat- which means its food would itself have to have been fed, like the food of every other carnivore on the ark for the entire 360 odd days Noah supposedly spent on the ark. T-Rex was not even the largest carnivorous dinosaur we know of. Spinosaurus, Argentinosaurus and Carcharodontosaurus were all larger and ate more even meat. Even they were not large enough to bring down the largest sauropods we know of, many species of which weighed in at close to 100 tons and were about 100 feet long. A bit of “back of the envelope” math quickly shows that “Noah’s Ark” would actually have to have been an armada of ships larger than the D-Day invasion force, manned by thousands and thousands of people – and this is without including the World’s 300,000 current species of plants, none of which could walk merrily in twos onto the ark.

      Then, of course, there are the various races of human beings. There were no Sub-Saharan Africans, Chinese, Australian Aboriginals, blonde haired Scandinavians, Pygmies or Eskimos on the Ark. Where did they come from?

      Second, there are those little things we call oil, natural gas and other fossil fuels. Their mere existence is another independent and fatal blow to the creationists. Speak to any geologist who works for Exxon Mobil, Shell or any of the thousands of mining, oil or natural gas related companies that make a living finding fossil fuels. They will tell you these fossil fuels take millions of years to develop from the remains of large, often Carboniferous Period forests, in the case of coal, or tiny marine creatures in the case of oil. For the fossils to develop into oil or coal takes tens or hundreds of millions of years of “slow baking” under optimum geological conditions. That’s why they are called “fossil fuels.” Have a close look at coal, you can often see the fossilized leaves in it. The geologists know exactly what rocks to look for fossil fuels in, because they know how to date the rocks to tens or hundreds of millions of years ago. Creationists have no credible explanation for this.

      Third, most of astronomy and cosmology would be wrong if the creationists were right. In short, as Einstein showed, light travels at a set speed. Space is so large that light from distant stars takes many years to reach the Earth. In some cases, this is millions or billions of years. The fact that we can see light from such far away stars means it began its journey billions of years ago. The Universe must be billions of years old. We can currently see galaxies whose light left home 13, 700,000,000 years ago. Indeed, on a clear night, one can see the collective, misty light of many stars more than 6,000 light years away with the naked eye, shining down like tiny accusatorial witnesses against the nonsense of creationism.

      Fourth, we have not just carbon dating, but also all other methods used by scientists to date wood, rocks, fossils, and other artifacts. These comprehensively disprove the Bible’s claims. They include uranium-lead dating, potassium-argon dating as well as other non-radioactive methods such as pollen dating, dendrochronology and ice core dating. In order for any particular rock, fossil or other artifact to be aged, generally two or more samples are dated independently by two or more laboratories in order to ensure an accurate result. If results were random, as creationists claim, the two independent results would rarely agree. They generally do. They regularly reveal ages much older than Genesis. Indeed, the Earth is about 750,000 times older than the Bible claims, the Universe about three times the age of the Earth.

      Fifth, the relatively new field of DNA mapping not only convicts criminals, it shows in undeniable, full detail how we differ from other life forms on the planet. For example, about 98.4% of human DNA is identical to that of chimpanzees, about 97% of human DNA is identical to that of gorillas, and slightly less again of human DNA is identical to the DNA of monkeys. This gradual divergence in DNA can only be rationally explained by the two species diverging from a common ancestor, and coincides perfectly with the fossil record. Indeed, scientists can use the percentage of DNA that two animal share (such as humans and bears, or domestic dogs and wolves) to get an idea of how long ago the last common ancestor of both species lived. It perfectly corroborates the fossil record and is completely independently developed.

      Sixth, the entire field of historical linguistics would have to be rewritten to accommodate the Bible. This discipline studies how languages develop and diverge over time. For example, Spanish and Italian are very similar and have a recent common “ancestor” language, Latin, as most people know. However, Russian is quite different and therefore either did not share a common root, or branched off much earlier in time. No respected linguist anywhere in the World traces languages back to the Tower of Babel, the creationists’ simplistic and patently absurd explanation for different languages. Indeed, American Indians, Australian Aboriginals, “true” Indians, Chinese, Mongols, Ja.panese, Sub-Saharan Africans and the Celts and other tribes of ancient Europe were speaking thousands of different languages thousands of years before the date creationist say the Tower of Babel occurred – and even well before the date they claim for the Garden of Eden.

      Seventh, lactose intolerance is also a clear vestige of human evolution. Most mammals only consume milk as infants. After infancy, they no longer produce the enzyme “lactase” that digests the lactose in milk and so become lactose intolerant. Humans are an exception and can drink milk as adults – but not all humans – some humans remain lactose intolerant. So which humans are no longer lactose intolerant? The answer is those who evolved over the past few thousand years raising cows. They evolved slightly to keep producing lactase as adults so as to allow the consumption of milk as adults. This includes most Europeans and some Africans, notably the Tutsi of Rwanda. On the other hand, most Chinese, native Americans and Aboriginal Australians, whose ancestors did not raise cattle, remain lactose intolerant.

      I could go on and elaborate on a number of other disciplines or facts that creationists have to pretend into oblivion to retain their faith, including the Ice Ages, cavemen and early hominids, much of microbiology, paleontology and archeology, continental drift and plate tectonics. Even large parts of medical research would be rendered unusable but for the fact that monkeys and mice share a common ancestor with us and therefore our fundamental cell biology and basic body architecture is identical to theirs.

      In short, and not surprisingly, the World’s most gifted evolutionary biologists, astronomers, cosmologists, geologists, archeologists, paleontologists, historians, modern medical researchers and linguists (and about 2,000 years of accu.mulated knowledge) are right and a handful of Iron Age Middle Eastern goat herders copying then extant mythology were wrong.

      So, where do I collect?

      April 2, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • Science

      And the missing link !

      Looks like that funky talking snake ?........................is the fairy in the fossil bed ?

      Strange Spaghetti-Shaped Creature Is Missing Link: Discovery Pushes Fossil Record Back 200 Million Years

      Mar. 13, 2013 — Canada's 505 million year-old Burgess Shale fossil beds, located in Yoho National Park, have yielded yet another major scientific discovery – this time with the unearthing of a strange spaghetti-shaped creature.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130313142526.htm

      April 2, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      colin
      You can't. He has already had this info, but he wants it presented in a courtroom scenario. He does not accept actual science, or the resulting knowledge we have gained from it.
      You will never collect, this is more a publicity stunt aimed at attacking the credibility of scientific discovery. He would rather accept the goddidit explaination, and will not accept anything else.

      He is a fraud when it comes to this "prize".

      April 2, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • BRC

      @Colin,
      I'm affraid everything you just said is actually based on lies perpetrated by the Devil (we know this because Christian Scientists have confirmed it). I'm affraid your unholy lies make you ineligeble for the contest. Sorry to dissapoint, maybe next time don't use so many big words and so much "evidence", those ar ethe tools of Satan.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • Colin

      Understood Richard Cranium, my expectations were not high...........

      I have tried to talk to creationists before. They couple a jawdropping ignorance of science and natural history with a remarkable desire to cling to their fairtale. You might as well try and debate quantum mechanics with a Corgi.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • BRC

      @Colin,
      That isn't even a remotely fair comparisson. With their engaging faces and playful ears, Corgis are FAR more likable when they stair at you blankly as you start getting into quantum states than a fundamentalist is when you try to explain that someone can't be their own son.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Puppies and Kittens Taste Delicious When Cooked Properly

      This terrible copy/paste propaganda was easily dismissed on another article you posted it on with undeniable factual information. Please, no more of this nonsense. Thank you in advance.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Colin

      True BRC, I am yet to meet a creationist I liked as much as a dog.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • fred

      Back when the earth was flat all modern scientist created models to support that theory. When earth was 6,000 years old the majority of scientists scurried to support that age. When global warming was going cook the world due to mans CO2 science flocked in with their models supporting global warming. Today the consensus is that the earth is an oblate spheroid 4.54 billion years old and global warming is called climate change.

      It would appear that the construct of matter and energy is relative suffering from the same delusional force that obscures the reality of God. Perhaps John was right when he said in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God when the creation was formed by the word of God “let there be” and it was so.
      We really know very little about this garden we call home other than the created things we poke and prod with very limited understanding. In Jeremiah we see “he has established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding has he stretched out the heavens”

      I am skeptical of anyone that would claim to know a reason and purpose for our existence yet alone the position of our universe based on scientific relativism.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Back when the Earth was flat????!!!!??? I think you may want to consider your wording, fred.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Fred, your first mistake (other than that flat earth thing) is your assumption that life has a purpose or meaning.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      fred. That presumes there is a reason and purpose for our existence. And you further presume that a god is that reason and purpose. Science is a relativity modern phenomenon; the fact that our understanding changes doesn't mean god must have done it.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • Just Shut Up

      You could offer a billion dollars to anyone who can "prove" gravity and as of yet no one would walk away with the prize as the theory of gravity is just that, a theory. However, it's a very good theory that most people believe in based on the large number of repeatable tests that give us a very strong view of what gravity is and how it works, but it's still not complete and we are still learning about it which continually refines our understanding of the theory of gravity.

      However, just because it's a theory doesn't mean i'm going to strap myself to my bed tonight just incase gravity stops working the way I think it should.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • Science

      And he is in public office ?

      Rubio ignites debate with answer about creationism ?

      https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/19/rubio-ignites-debate-with-answer-about-creationism/

      April 2, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • fred

      Tallulah13
      In Santa we Trust
      Science does not offer any evidence whatsoever as to the purpose of existence nor does science offer any proof that no god needed. The fact remains atheists make up unsupported sound bites like “ man does not need a purpose or meaning” “we know nothing exists in the afterlife” “we will someday know the unknowable” “there are no absolutes”. Atheists and Believers have the same weight of scientific evidence that God did it or no god needed so reason alone would suggest the proof is not in created matter and energy that is self limited by created matter and energy.

      You guys are worse than a couple of gold fish arguing the food dropping into the fish bowl cannot be supernatural but someday if we study what’s in our bowl long enough we will know. Your belief further requires that there is no external presence outside that bowl so that your existence can be without purpose or meaning. This you conclude based on what you can observe in your bowl.
      Reality check ; how many more sound bites of denial do you rehearse to deny the self evident. 98% of the world suspects there is something outside this fish bowl and that suspicion is innate. You should be very concerned that you block out that which is self evident.
      Reality check; the probability that two gold fish end up in bowl without meaning or purpose is the same as the probability that we are here at this moment. It is impossible unless you are under some delusion.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      And fred once again shows quite clearly he has no idea what the fuck he's talking about.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Why is it that you feel you need to be "special"? Why are you so convinced that you need to have been given an intrinsic "meaning" for a magic man in the sky? You constantly assert that everything must necessarily have "meaning", yet you never actually give any justification other than "I say it is, therefore it must be".
      Don't be a fucking coward fred. Answer questions, debate honestly. It would be a nice change for everyone.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • Science

      Fred it is not the one you think it is .

      Scientists say they've found a "God particle"

      http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57574247/scientists-say-theyve-found-a-god-particle/

      April 2, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • Nope

      "Science is a relativity modern phenomenon;"

      HU? Science is as old as humankind herself.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
    • fred

      Science

      Luke Skywalker would say ... "These aren't the god particles you're looking for.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • Little Timmy

      "You guys are worse than a couple of gold fish arguing the food dropping into the fish bowl cannot be supernatural but someday if we study what’s in our bowl long enough we will know."

      I have reported Mr. fred to the ASPCA. He must be making gold fish live in bowls covered up with black tape so they can't see outside and guess what's going on. That is cruel.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • fred

      Little Timmy
      Good idea! I tried to cover their eyes with black tape and it kept falling off.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguest
      “Why is it that you feel you need to be "special"?”
      =>That coming from one trapped in philosophical naturalism that longs to understand what it means to be special. Naturalism would suggest that as evolved animals we are just organic matter reacting to chemical stimuli. Given it was simply a big accident there is no reason for an accidental organic blob to be special. The problem is you do feel somewhat more special than a cow unless you are a vegetarian or you feel more special than a weed which you feel is more special than the lawn you felt it necessary to pluck it from.
      =>I at least admit I am more special than the above examples of animals and vegetables. I am special because I believe that I was created for purpose and Jesus died to set me free of the delusion presented by the world.

      “ Why are you so convinced that you need to have been given an intrinsic "meaning"”
      =>I would not be here right now were it not for a miracle ( atheists would insist was nothing other than a series of coincidences). I also know what it feels like to be trapped in the abyss, terror without boundaries and hopelessness. I also know what it feels like when the hand of God answers prayer and opens my soul to experience the love of Christ. I cannot imagine all that effort and love being expended on organic matter without meaning or purpose.

      “You constantly assert that everything must necessarily have "meaning", yet you never actually give any justification”
      =>the above is my justification and the justification for a couple of hundred people who I personally witnessed and spoke with regarding their conversion experience and the presence of God in their lives.

      =>I cannot conceive of an accidental improbable event that would be inclined to create or result in the creation of a human cognitive awareness displayed in the beauty of its arts and science. I cannot conceive of a universe that exists yet suspended in an unknown the construct of which has no apparent limit in scope large or small. Outside of mathematical constructs I cannot see any difference between eternity and a void. Yet, given purpose and meaning the result of creation is joy, love and hope. Eternity takes on personal meaning as well as all the other observable events.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      So your rambling answer is essentially more of the same "it is because I say so". Typical.
      You have no justification, so it therefore is because you say it is.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguest
      Let me flip that on you:
      You have no purpose or meaning other than that of an animal thus you cannot comprehend.
      You see the beauty, wonder and awe Einstein called miraculous as an accident
      You see the strong eating the weak as natural as Stalin killing Christians
      You see the love of Mother Teresa as a byproduct of the big bang
      Animals have all kinds of sex in the woods no love needed.
      You see the hate of Hitler as a byproduct of the big bang
      Animals die existence is meaningless
      Life=rock

      April 2, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      How about you actually address the fucking point instead of posting irrelevant garbage over and over?
      I'll tell you why, because you have nothing. No basis, and merely chosen to accept something that asserts an answer to make you feel good. You're a moron completely incapable of defending your position in any kind of an honest manner.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • tallulah13

      fred, realistically there is nothing at all in the universe to suggest that a god was needed. Claiming "god did it" is just ignorance and intellectual laziness. You want to be special, you want to live forever, you want a higher power to notice and love you, but that is just vanity and possibly fear.

      There is nothing wrong with being just a human with a finite existence. There is nothing wrong with being loved only by those people in your life to whom you are closest. They are the ones who really matter. There is nothing wrong with living a good life and dying and being forgotten. It's natural. The price of birth is death, and it's up to you to give your own life
      meaning while you live, because after you die, it's too late.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • fred

      tallulah13
      “fred, realistically there is nothing at all in the universe to suggest that a god was needed”
      =>I could only agree if you say that there is no scientifically accepted evidence that god was needed.
      There is an abundance of clues and reasons for God or at worst case supernatural causation.
      =>You are out early today did your schedule change?

      April 2, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Damocles

      Posted this in the wrong spot the first time, let's try again....

      @fred

      You have no purpose or meaning other than that of an animal thus you cannot comprehend.
      Atheism is not nihilism. My life has meaning and purpose.

      You see the beauty, wonder and awe Einstein called miraculous as an accident
      An accident can be beautiful.

      You see the strong eating the weak as natural as Stalin killing Christians
      Nature tends towards the strong over the weak, it happens all the time in the animal kingdom, the animal kingdom that you believe your deity created, may I remind you.

      You see the love of Mother Teresa as a byproduct of the big bang
      I see her kindness as a byproduct of her being human. If not her, we might be talking about a Mother Barbara or a Mother Agnes.

      Animals have all kinds of se-x in the woods no love needed.
      Yes, animals have se-x in the woods... and the plains and the snow and even underwater. Few mate for life... again, nature, as your deity supposedly made.

      You see the hate of Hitler as a byproduct of the big bang
      I see his hatred, stupidity and evilness as a byproduct of being human. If not him, we'd be talking about another despot

      Animals die existence is meaningless
      10,000 animals probably died while I was writing this, their life was meaningless to me because none were my pets. How many animals get to a heaven anyway?

      April 2, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • tallulah13

      fred, I'm on vacation this week. I'm doing a lot of stuff around the house, then coming back to my computer for breaks.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:32 pm |
    • Damocles

      I'm on vacation as well... spending time with the kids, trying unsuccessfully to make rock candy, cleaning up. Fun times!

      April 2, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • fred

      Damocles
      You may be a bit better off than I am then. In many areas I need that eternal accountability that provides the added incentive to do the right thing. In some areas I am thankful I have a completely different mindset where I do what brings glory to God and find it rewarding. Life is very different since I experienced the presence of God. Not sure it would matter if this is just my delusion (illusion) or reality that I could not see previously.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:38 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      And now, as is typical, fred will ignore me for a time, post a response that addresses nothing, and eventually will "lose" this thread.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • Damocles

      @fred

      I am held accountable as well, fred, by my family, my friends, my bosses, my co-workers, my fellow humans. If the only thing that brings meaning to your life is a belief in a deity, then you have problems.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:48 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguest
      I posted my justifications for meaning and purpose based on God being the unknown causation. You can base your justification for meaning and purpose or lack thereof on something other than the unknown or the unknown itself.
      I doubt any two people have the same justification even if it sounds very much the same. You can disagree with my justification or not like it but it is my justification. Everyone that lives justifies their belief as you have justified yours. It seems to be something the brain does automatically in order to make sense of the world.
      Somehow when I respond you do not feel I have responded. If I failed to get the point that would not be unusual.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
    • fred

      Damocles
      God has brought me a long way from where I was and I am very dependent on that presence. I trust God completely. It took a while for me to come to grips with the lack of scientific evidence for God. The brain is wonderful thing and it has justified the existence of God in reasons for God and clues that when added together validated the lack of evidence. All of the reasons and clues independently can be set aside as not proving God only the factual part of the point. An example could be morals. The standard is outside of our desires and preferences so that they can be judged but that does not equate to God establishing standards.
      Enjoy your day off I gotta' run

      April 2, 2013 at 6:20 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Fred does this help no god(s) required.................................for gravity to work.......................splat goes the fairy !

      Curtains Down for the Black Hole Firewall Paradox: Making Gravity Safe for Einstein

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter_energy/albert_einstein/

      April 2, 2013 at 6:24 pm |
    • Ben

      @fred – " Atheists and Believers have the same weight of scientific evidence that God did it or no god needed "

      While what you say is basically true, you forget one main factor. Which group is using rational standardized methods to investigate the universe and draw their conclusios? Here's an example.

      A math teacher put's an unsolved equation on the board for his students to attempt to solve. One half of the class he asks to use standardized methods of deduction and testing to form their sollution, and the other half of the class he asks to hold hands and sit in a circle and try and feel the sollution through human connection and interaction. It would be true to say that both answers given at the end of the day are just as valid since the equation has not had an accepted sollution to that point, so there is no way to check the veracity of either answer. However, I would personaly put my money on the side using the standardized testing methods that mathematics has given us to get a more accurate sollution, where I would not put much faith in the side that wants to hold hands and feel a sollution out of thin air.

      Religion uses feelings to decide on a sollution, which is why every religion has a different version with different feelings. Atheism uses verified testing methods to present the most logical sollution which is why the current best explanation of the big bang and evolution are widely accepted.

      April 2, 2013 at 7:11 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      You don't give any justification. You merely assert that your god has given meaning and intrinsic purpose. That's not a justification, that's just an assertion.

      April 2, 2013 at 8:17 pm |
    • The real Tom

      freddy does it again. Making a claim that atheists' lives have no meaning because they don't believe.

      Where do you get your fvcking nerve, fred? You don't a thing about anyone else's life. Not one. You don't know any of us in real life and you have no clue what any of us do for a living, what our pastimes are, what our families are like, where we live or how we live, where we travel and what we do when we're away from home, what charities we give our time and money to, or any other fvcking thing about any of us. Just shut the fvck up already. YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ANYONE ELSE'S LIFE OR WHAT MEANING IT HAS.

      You're an azzhole.

      April 2, 2013 at 8:24 pm |
    • Damocles

      @fred

      Ahhh... scientific disproof... the last stand of a believer. 'You can't prove it doesn't exist, so it must exist.' Right. If you want to follow that train of thought, you may want to worship all deities seeing as how none of them can really be 'disproven'. Hell, worship everything... who's to say that random blade of grass in your front yard isn't, in fact, the one true creator of all. Course, if you spent all your time worshipping everything, nothing would get done and you'd starve to death, but hey, you'd be on your way to your eternal reward just that much quicker. As long as you worshipped the right thing, of course.

      April 3, 2013 at 5:26 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Surely men of low degree [are] vanity, [and] men of high degree [are] a lie: to be laid in the balance, they [are] altogether [lighter] than vanity.

      Psalms 62:9

      Amen.

      April 3, 2013 at 10:41 am |
  16. Francisco

    There is an organization called The Clergy Project that helps clergy through the transition of leaving his or her employment. There are many clergy's that have a "loss of faith". Or in other words realized that what they are preaching is a bunch of mythical nonsense. It must be very difficult to be near retirement and realize your a hypocrite. If they are dependent on their income they find themselves in a rock and a hard spot. This organization helps untangle all the problems associated with that. There must be a lot of in the closet atheits out thre.

    April 2, 2013 at 11:40 am |
    • *

      Francisco,

      *You might want to spiff up your spelling and grammar if you are going to repost this all over the place. Rampant sloppiness is not the mark of a clear thinker.

      April 2, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • December

      I went the opposite way... former atheist here who now believes and trusts in God.

      April 2, 2013 at 11:52 am |
    • Topher

      Same here. Former atheist.

      April 2, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • tallulah13

      Not me. Former christian (though not terribly vested in it) who realized that there is no point in believing in a god for which there is no proof. I find hard truth better than comforting myths.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • ME II

      Just curious, what kind of atheists were you?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Doobs

      @ ME II

      They couldn't have been "true atheists". LOL!

      April 2, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
    • ME II

      @Doobs,
      lol. No, I'm not trying for that, just curious what "atheist" means to them.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
    • December

      What kind of atheist?

      I didn't believe in God. I thought all religious people were fooling themselves – I knew better. There was no way there was a loving God. I hated Christianity. Hated it – the narrow-mindedness and the hypocrisy.

      I guess I was a hateful atheist.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
    • ME II

      @December,
      Thanks!

      April 2, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • Doobs

      @ ME II

      I know, I just couldn't resist. I was RC and then fundie born again for over 50 years, now atheist, and I get "Well, you never really were a xtian" all the time.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Pastafairian

      Topher & December
      From the Gospel of the FSM
      Born Agains are the most dogmatic of all, because it is the dogma itself that forms their belief system. The Born Again believes that everyone needs to be told what to do.....and I may add what to believe.
      You two are such outstanding examples of the above statement.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • December

      How have I demonstrated that to you, @Pastafarian?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • K-switch

      I'm the kind of athiest that likes long walks on the beach...

      April 2, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • The Fishing

      Athiest

      April 2, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • ME II

      @K-switch,
      The long walks obviously make you a strong atheist, no?

      April 2, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
  17. Topher

    Yeah, too bad this series never presented the Gospel.

    April 2, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • Shout-Out: TheBibleReloaded

      Enjoy !

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSKAGA7AwLQ&w=640&h=360]

      April 2, 2013 at 11:44 am |
    • Topher

      Wow. Was that supposed to be cute?

      April 2, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • December

      What is the Gospel? (I only watched the last episode...)

      April 2, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • sam stone

      I thought it was. Of course, I am nowhere near as pious as you

      April 2, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • Topher

      Sam

      Did they, in the episode you watched, explain WHY Jesus came or WHY He died? And what that means for everyone?

      April 2, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • Topher

      Sorry ... that was for Sam and December.

      April 2, 2013 at 11:58 am |
    • December

      @Topher

      I'm not sure... what could they have said or done that would have shone why Jesus came and died?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • Topher

      They could have explained what sin is. How every one of us has broken God's laws and how every one of us deserve to go to Hell. They could have explained how in the OT, the lamb sacrifices were a covering for sins until the Messiah came. They could have then explained how Christ, being both God and man, was the perfect sacrifice (the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world) and how He voluntarily went to the cross, taking the punishment you and I deserve, and then 3 days later defeating death so we all can have those sins forgiven and live eternally. And they could have explained that with repentance and faith, we will have exactly that.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:08 pm |
    • December

      @ Topher

      Ok, good points. I plan to watch the other episodes. I was wondering about the lack of repentance in the final story... but wondered if they covered it earlier with Jesus' teachings.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • sam stone

      topher: no, they did not. so what?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • sam stone

      What explation of sin, Topher? That sin is a man made concept?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • Topher

      December

      Just my opinion, but the OT episodes were better than the new. Though even there, they didn't really demonstrate the thread of all these things pointing to Christ. It was way more like just presenting the stories instead of WHY.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • Madtown

      taking the punishment you and I deserve
      -----–
      I don't believe I've done anything that would require Christ be put to death, but that's my opinion. What's your opinion? What have I done to deserve hell?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • December

      I was confused about Peter's denial of Christ. It seemed like they tried to condense it to one instance.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • sam stone

      I was not speaking of The Bible, I was speaking of the video posted in response to your initilal post

      April 2, 2013 at 12:18 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "topher: no, they did not. so what?"

      Kind of means they missed the most important part of the Bible, then, doesn't it?

      "What explation of sin, Topher? That sin is a man made concept?"

      Let's lay aside for a moment that you don't believe the Bible. They are trying to reach people by showing them what the Bible says is literal history. And if you don't understand what Christ did, you can't be saved.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "I was not speaking of The Bible, I was speaking of the video posted in response to your initilal post"

      Ah. Then my bad.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • Topher

      Madtown

      "I don't believe I've done anything that would require Christ be put to death, but that's my opinion. What's your opinion? What have I done to deserve hell?"

      On Judgment Day, you will be judged based on God's moral laws, the 10 Commandments. How many have you been able to keep? Have you ever told a lie? Stolen anything (no matter how small or how long ago)? Used God's name to express disgust? Look at someone and lust for them?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • sam stone

      "They could have explained...how every one of us has broken God's laws and how every one of us deserve to go to Hell. "

      l have said it before, and I will restate it, Topher. Your god is a vindictive pr1ck. According to you, he created us knowing we would "sin", and that he would either be glorified through his justice or his mercy. What kind of fvcking cretin would you worship that would treat man like we were his own little playthings?

      "They could have then explained how Christ, being both God and man, was the perfect sacrifice (the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world)"

      God needed a sacrifice? Why not just forvgive?

      "taking the punishment you and I deserve"

      If you want to believe you deserve hell, have at it.

      "and then 3 days later defeating death"

      If he "defeated death", he did not die in the first place

      Do you serioiusly want eternal life on your knees in front of your vindictive pr1ck god? If so, you are a snivelling coward.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • sam stone

      Frjee people do not need to be "saved", Topher. Only slaves and prisoners

      April 2, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • sam stone

      "On Judgment Day, you will be judged based on God's moral laws, the 10 Commandments. How many have you been able to keep? Have you ever told a lie? Stolen anything (no matter how small or how long ago)? Used God's name to express disgust? Look at someone and lust for them?"

      If those are what passes for morality, your god is a punk, Topher

      April 2, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      topher
      "look at someone and lust for them"

      of course, all humans do. But it does not violate any of the 10 commandments ( which are mans laws, there is no evidence that any god was invloved)

      April 2, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Madtown

      Those things you list are just being human. They are just being the way God created us. Stealing a piece of gum from a grocery store as a child is in no way deserving of "eternal" punishment in a fiery hell. Look at someone lustfully? A function of biology, period. Again, the way we are wired, the way God made us. Besides, "God's laws", the 10 Commandments as you say, a feature of christianity. I've brought this up before and it's a logical problem you have no legitimate counter to: what about your human brethren that don't know of christianity, and don't know what you mean by the 10 Commandments? They've never heard of them. If they are God's laws, seems to me God would provide them to all his creations. He hasn't.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "l have said it before, and I will restate it, Topher. Your god is a vindictive pr1ck. According to you, he created us knowing we would "sin", and that he would either be glorified through his justice or his mercy. What kind of fvcking cretin would you worship that would treat man like we were his own little playthings?"

      Despite the wickedness you have shown toward Him, He loves you anyway and took the punishment you deserve ... even to His death. He offers you eternity in Heaven. Why don't you want that?

      "God needed a sacrifice? Why not just forvgive? "

      "Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."

      "If you want to believe you deserve hell, have at it. "

      I do. I spent nearly 30 years shaking my fist at God.

      "If he "defeated death", he did not die in the first place"

      He did die, but brought Himself back to life. Who but God could do that?

      "Do you serioiusly want eternal life on your knees in front of your vindictive pr1ck god? If so, you are a snivelling coward."

      How does loving God make you a coward?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • BRC

      Topher,
      I maintain that Jesus was less a savior of humans and more a savior of animals. You could get into heaven before Jesus came, you just had to perform all teh rituals and sacrifices. And you can still go to hell now that 's come and gone, you jus tdon't have to spill or burn any blood to avoid it. So really, Jesus was sort of Neutral to humans, more convenience than salvation (and no, he did not get the punishment we would recieve for our sins, his bodily form died, then came back, then went to heaven. when humans sin they go to hell, so if Jesus was going to take the punishment for our sins, he should have gone to hell, but that's not the point here). Who Jesus REALLY saved is the animals. He made it so they no longer have to be needlessly tortured, slaughtered, and burned; ritualistically killed and then left to rot to make a holy point. Animals should pray and thank Jesus every day, for humans, way less critical.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
    • Topher

      Richard Cranium

      "of course, all humans do. But it does not violate any of the 10 commandments ( which are mans laws, there is no evidence that any god was invloved)"

      It violates the law against adultery. "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. "

      April 2, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • December

      Sounds like you think we can earn our way into heaven... I'm not sure that is what Jesus was saying.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Despite the wickedness you have shown toward Him, He loves you anyway and took the punishment you deserve ... even to His death. He offers you eternity in Heaven. Why don't you want that?"

      Because I do not believe in it. Why do you find it so difficult to accept the fact that not everyone believes in (your view of) god?

      "I do. I spent nearly 30 years shaking my fist at God."

      If you spent 30 years shaking your fist at god, you were not an atheist, you were an anti-theist. No one can rationally have any feelings (positive or negative) toward a being in which they do not believe.

      "He did die, but brought Himself back to life."

      If he was dead, he could not do anything.

      "How does loving God make you a coward?"

      If you accept the default setting that you are flawed from birth and deserve hell, you are a coward.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Richard Cranium, you wrote to topher "look at someone and lust for them" of course, all humans do. But it does not violate any of the 10 commandments ( which are mans laws, there is no evidence that any god was invloved)

      Answer:

      Romans 7:7

      What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. KJV

      To covet is to lust. The Apostle Paul was referring to the Tenth Commandment.

      Exodus 20:17

      Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. KJV

      Amen.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • sam stone

      Topher, why do you not address the vindictiveness of a being who would punish you for doing what he knew (even before you were born) you would do?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • sam stone

      "If you accept the default setting that you are flawed from birth and deserve hell, you are a coward."

      And if you preach it, you are a pompous coward

      April 2, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • Topher

      Madtown

      " I've brought this up before and it's a logical problem you have no legitimate counter to: what about your human brethren that don't know of christianity, and don't know what you mean by the 10 Commandments? They've never heard of them. If they are God's laws, seems to me God would provide them to all his creations. He hasn't."

      I think I do have an answer for it. The Bible says He gave us a conscience and thus are without excuse. You don't need to be told that lying or stealing or murder is wrong. God wrote His laws on your heart.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • December

      It takes courage to do and preach what Jesus asks of us.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:02 pm |
    • Paul

      Letting someone else take the punishment you say you deserve would make you a coward.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
    • sam stone

      "You don't need to be told that lying or stealing or murder is wrong."

      But, it is not limited to lying, stealing or murder. What (other than the bible) makes you think that lust is wrong?

      April 2, 2013 at 1:05 pm |
    • Topher

      December

      "Sounds like you think we can earn our way into heaven... I'm not sure that is what Jesus was saying."

      Is this directed at me? You CANNOT earn your way into Heaven. "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

      April 2, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • sam stone

      "It takes courage to do and preach what Jesus asks of us."

      It takes courage to decide for yourself what is right and wrong.

      As far as preaching, all it takes is the delusion that you know god better than others

      April 2, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • Madtown

      The Bible says..........
      ---
      This is circular, and your answer fails in the first few words. "The bible says". Again, it doesn't matter what the bible says, if I live in a region of the world devoid of bibles. If that's the case for me, then the bible is irrelevant to me. If God has "written laws on our hearts", which I agree with, then the bible isn't necessary to do good by God. In fact, religion as a whole isn't necessary to do good by God because what's proper is written on our hearts.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • December

      Earn your way into heaven was aimed at:
      @you could get into heaven before Jesus came, you just had to perform all teh rituals and sacrifices.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • December

      @ It takes courage to decide for yourself what is right and wrong.

      Not really. I can decide that running away from my problems is right – and actually be acting like a coward.

      Who can determine what is right and wrong?

      April 2, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • BRC

      @December,
      Oh, you should have said you were talking to me. No, I am well aware that many facitons of Chrisitianity believe tha good deeds alone can't get you into heaven, it's part of why I think they're absurd. That wasn't what I was saying. My point was that, by the bibles own rules, you could be absolved of your sins by following the laws and rituatls laid out in the Pentateuch (first 5 books of the OT). Ergo, Jesus was a nicety, not a necessity. Now, if it your belief that that is untrue, and all Jews, even those born before Jesus, are in hell, then I guess Jesus is your only choice, but that's a pretty narrow way of looking at things.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Who can determine what is right and wrong?"

      Each individual does so. It is called MORALITY

      April 2, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

      Psalms 1:6

      Amen.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "Because I do not believe in it. Why do you find it so difficult to accept the fact that not everyone believes in (your view of) god? "

      Well, that doesn't really matter, now does it. If God is real, you'll still be judged by that standard, whether you believe in Him or not.

      "If he was dead, he could not do anything. "

      Unless He really is God.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • December

      @BRC

      I believe that God is love. And I believe that God has a plan of salvation for His whole creation. God made this world imperfect – and he said that is OK. He still loves it.

      I read and trust in the Bible – but I don't believe and trust in what everyone says about the Bible. God is bigger and better than even the best of those who profess to know and love him. I don't worship the Bible, I worship God.

      And God exists and lives – and access to him is available.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "Topher, why do you not address the vindictiveness of a being who would punish you for doing what he knew (even before you were born) you would do?"

      Because I reject that it is vindictive. No one has made you break His laws. You did that on your own. And when you break His laws, you deserve to be punished.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • sam stone

      "If God is real, you'll still be judged by that standard, whether you believe in Him or not. "

      And if there is a god other than the one you believe in, you may be held to its standard.

      If I do not believe in your god, I cannot fear its retaliation ("judgement" to you pioius folk) from it, no matter how often you want to bloviate EMPTY PROXY THREATS of hell

      April 2, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Topher

      BRC

      "My point was that, by the bibles own rules, you could be absolved of your sins by following the laws and rituatls laid out in the Pentateuch (first 5 books of the OT)."

      No.

      "Now, if it your belief that that is untrue, and all Jews, even those born before Jesus, are in hell, then I guess Jesus is your only choice, but that's a pretty narrow way of looking at things."

      No, there's plenty of OT Jews in Heaven. But Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven. "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me."

      April 2, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Because I reject that it is vindictive"

      Of course you do. You are a sycophant.

      " No one has made you break His laws. You did that on your own. And when you break His laws, you deserve to be punished."

      Are you going to start this "free will" nonsense again?

      Tell me how free will exists with an omniscient god

      If I have choices A or B, and the omniscient god knows I will choose B, what are the chances that I will choose A and prove the omniscient god wrong? (Hint: The answer is ZERO).

      April 2, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • tallulah13

      The one consistent thread I see among the christians on this blog is that the god they worship is exactly the god they want, according to their own interpretation of the bible. This is same with every god. Humans made gods to satisfy their own needs.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      Okay, then how did the Jewish people pre-Jesus find their way to heaven? Are you saying that the rituals used to work but don't any more? Because if that's your argument, my point stands, people were getting into heaven with or without Jesus, the only thing he really saved was the sacrificial animals. IF that's not what you're saying, please clarify.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "Are you going to start this "free will" nonsense again? "

      Well, I don't want to ... it really is a rabbit trail to what we're talking about. I don't know how else to explain it to you. But here we go again because I want to see you get saved.

      "If I have choices A or B, and the omniscient god knows I will choose B, what are the chances that I will choose A and prove the omniscient god wrong? (Hint: The answer is ZERO)."

      You have choices A or B. God knows you will choose B. But He isn't forcing you to choose B. You have the same percentage of picking A as B. He just knows when you weigh the options which you will choose. If you wanted to choose A, He'd have known that, too. And He would know if you initially choose B, but then change your mind and choose A. This is all your choice. He isn't forcing you into it. He just knows the ultimate outcome.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Puppies and Kittens Taste Delicious When Cooked Properly

      No one knows who actually authored the "gospel." Therefore, it's validity is in question.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • Puppies and Kittens Taste Delicious When Cooked Properly

      If a deity created man, and knows all things to include the choices man will make, then man has no free will due to the fact that the man had no choice in existing. Your argument is invalid, Topher.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • sam stone

      It's a rabbit trail because you stick your head in the ground and ignore logic

      "You have choices A or B. God knows you will choose B. But He isn't forcing you to choose B."

      If god knows I will choose B, and god is omniscient, choosing A would make god wrong. If god is omniscient, god cannot be wrong

      April 2, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • Topher

      BRC
      "Okay, then how did the Jewish people pre-Jesus find their way to heaven? Are you saying that the rituals used to work but don't any more?"

      By following the sacrifices, they were obeying God. But they knew those animal sacrifices were only a temporary covering of their sins until the Christ could come and ultimately and finally take the consequences upon Himself. So those OT people were still saved by what Christ did.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • sam stone

      If he knows the ultimate outcome, and he cannot be wrong, there is no free will

      April 2, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Can someone ask Topher why he only thinks force is the only way that free will is denied? If the answer is known in advance, then there is no other choice but to follow that. If Ephesians 1: 11 is accurate, then nothing happens without his gods will.
      I would try to ask myself, but Topher likes to ignore me for unknown reasons that he also refuses to give.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "If god knows I will choose B, and god is omniscient, choosing A would make god wrong. If god is omniscient, god cannot be wrong"

      If your choice is option B, you WON'T choose A. Not because God is making you, but because it's your choice. A is a valid option. But it's your choice. So your "choosing A would make God wrong" is a strawman. If you chose option A, He'd have known it already.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • sam stone

      "You have choices A or B. God knows you will choose B. But He isn't forcing you to choose B. "

      He is, by his omniscience

      April 2, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • sam stone

      "If your choice is option B, you WON'T choose A. Not because God is making you, but because it's your choice. A is a valid option."

      A is NOT a valid option if the final choice of B is known to the omniscient being.

      "If you chose option A, He'd have known it already"

      But in our scenario, it has already been established that I will end up choosing B

      April 2, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • @hawaiiguest

      And you wonder why most people are ignoring you?

      April 2, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @@hawaiiguest

      Do you realize that just stating something means nothing without actual explanation?
      You say something, yet you have no context for me to know what you're talking about.
      Either you really are just a moron, or you think you were actually being clever. Either way, doesn't look good for you.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      So, if "God" hadn't seen fit to send Jesus yet, if for the last 2000 years people would still haev been living under the "Law", so long as tehy kept up with the covenent they would be admitted to heaven when they died correct?

      April 2, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • @hawaiiguest

      I meant to post that in a different thread... the very bottom one. You act and talk like a jerk, that is why some people ignore you.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • Topher

      BRC

      If I understand what you are saying, yes. As long as you understand that it, in the end, it is because of what Christ did (or would ultimately do under your scenario.) Those people were credited righteousness because of their faith.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      "Becoming truly righteous" sounds nice and all, but if you're in heaven I doubt you're worried about nuance. And since humans aren't all knowing beings, if you lived before Jesus's time, followed the rules, and recieved your reward, why should you care (or no), that he came later, doesn't really affect you. So, if Jesus hadn't been here yet, and we were all living without hsi "presence", we wouldn't know any better. Conversely, if you only ever lived under "grace", you still have the threat of hell, you just have to give praise and thanks to avoid hell instead of sacrifice. You have all the same dangers, you just get to do less to avoid them. So, I am still forced to wonder why Jesus would be more important to humans than animals?

      April 2, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @@hawaiiguest

      Have you seen the utter stupidity and intentional dishonesty of HeavenSent the last few days, or going back even further to a year ago?
      Give some specifics.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • @hawaiiguest

      No. I would just ignore them. Not continue reading their lies. Try it. I call it tolerance.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @@hawaiiguest

      Not calling out people when they're wrong isn't tolerance, it's complacency.
      Tolerance is me saying that they have all the right to say any lie they want, and I have the right to call them on it, or to challenge people to back up their assertions. If they cannot, it's not my fault, it's theirs.
      If I were intolerant, I would be hitting report abuse on anyone I don't like.
      You may view it as intolerant, but that's not accurate. Do you view anyone voicing differing opinions to you intolerant of your views?

      April 2, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • @hawaiiguest

      Welcome to the internet.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Topher

      BRC

      "And since humans aren't all knowing beings, if you lived before Jesus's time, followed the rules, and recieved your reward, why should you care (or no), that he came later, doesn't really affect you."

      Understand those people knew about Christ. Maybe not everything, but the OT talks quite a bit about Messiah and who He was and what He was coming to do. Their faith was placed on that.

      "So, if Jesus hadn't been here yet, and we were all living without hsi "presence", we wouldn't know any better"

      Like I said, they knew what was coming.

      "Conversely, if you only ever lived under "grace", you still have the threat of hell, you just have to give praise and thanks to avoid hell instead of sacrifice."

      Well, there's still a sacrifice, it's just that now it has already been made for you. And praise and thanks is part of it, but you must repent (not just say you are sorry, but turn away from your sins and agree with God that you deserve Hell and only He can give you forgiveness) and trust in Him to do what He said He could do.

      "You have all the same dangers, you just get to do less to avoid them. So, I am still forced to wonder why Jesus would be more important to humans than animals?"

      Because without His work on the cross, taking the punishment you deserve and defeating death, you'd be destined for Hell. Because He's already paid your fine, if you recieve that gift, you can walk out of God's courtroom a free man. No one has done more for or could do more for man than what Christ did.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @@hawaiiguest

      I'm not entirely sure what your point is.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      Not really. If Jesus hadn't come along all I would need is a sheep, an Ox, and a couple pounds of grain when I did something bad and I'd accomplish the same thing. and they weren't ALWAYS waiting for Jesus. They commonly had messiahs to free them from their current woes, but that's all they needed or were concerned with. When Moses was freeing the hebrews from Egypt they weren't thinking "man I can't wait for Jesus to get here". That isn't even the name the OT uses (or at least not the only one). Throughout the OT the Jewish people called for saviors, and they recieved lots of them, Jesus was just the last and supposedly most important one (unless you kept reading and went with Islam).

      April 2, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • Paul

      Topher, what about the fact that you are a coward for letting Jesus take the punishment that you say you deserve? If you deserve hell stand up and take it like a man.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:49 pm |
    • Topher

      BRC

      "They commonly had messiahs to free them from their current woes, but that's all they needed or were concerned with."

      Like who?

      "That isn't even the name the OT uses (or at least not the only one)."

      You're probably thinking of "Immanuel" ... which means "God With Us"

      "Throughout the OT the Jewish people called for saviors, and they recieved lots of them, Jesus was just the last and supposedly most important one (unless you kept reading and went with Islam)."

      There was only one savior. I'd LOVE to get into Islam and how that's an impossibility if you hold the Bible as true, but unfortunately, I have to go to work soon.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • BRC

      Topher,
      While we're here, your court analogy isn't very good. Let's pretend there is a system where "God" makes the laws and serves as the Judge. He makes a law saying that"thou shall not joyfully touch your own naughty bits". Alright, fair enough, "God" made the rule. So along comes your average Male-

      "Judge God"- "Wow, so, says here that you spent about a decade breaking my law between once and three times a day for about a decade... do you have anything to say for yourself?

      Dude- "Would you believe I'm sorry?"

      "Judge God"- "After a few thousand offenses? No.

      Dude- "Yeah, that's pretty fair, gotta be honest I didn't really feel bad about it at the time."

      "Judge God"- The punishment is eternity in Hell.

      Dude- "What? That seems a bit steep, I didn't do anything else bad, I love my wife, tried to do my best for my children and my friends, I only broke the one rule and it didnt' hurt anybody else. Really, eternity of the worste punishment you have?"

      "Judge God"- Actually it's the only punishment I have, when humans break any of my rules, they go to hell, that's how it works. But tell you what I'm gonna do. Here's my son, Jesus. jesus, tell them what I told you."

      Jesus- "If I may, I will take his punishment."

      "Judge God"- What, but you haven't done anything wrong ever, is there anythign else?"

      Jesus- "Yes, I'd like to take the punishment for all of your laws broken by man. IF they step up and accept me as their representative, then I will take their punishment for them"

      "Judge God" – "That is miraculously generous of me, I mean us, I mean ... you. Ahem, yes well, any objections?"
      ...
      "Didn't think so. So be it, from this point on, Jesus here will be the by proxy punishee for all of my warth, I mean Justice. The sentence shall be carried out immediately. You there, Bailif, Go slowly stab Jesus till he dies, then bury him outback, in a couple of days We'll send him up to heaven and this whole matter can be resolved...

      Dude- "Whoa whoa whoa, let me get this straight. If I was the offender, I would die, maybe or maybe not in a gruesome way, and go to Hell, forever. For just my offenses. Jesus here is bearing the weight of every offense ever, and sure, he deffinitely gets a gruesome death, but then he spends eternity IN PARADISE!? What's more, if I don't let him tkae my punishment for me, if I accept responsibility for my own actions, I'm still going to Hell forever; I would right, can I get in on the stabbing then heaven deal?"

      'Judge God"- "Nope, Hell for you"

      Dude- "Right, thought so. How is that fair?"

      "Judge God"- "I did say he's my son."

      And scene. So, looking at it like that, does Jesus dyign and going to Heaven really make sense if he's "suffering the punishment we all deserve"?

      April 2, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • BRC

      Moses, David, any of the Kings who threw off their opressors. Or do you not consider them saviors?

      Liked how you just completely skipped over the sentence that made my point in your recap by the way.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • @hawaiiguest

      If you are seriously sitting there scratching your head wondering why somebody isn't responding to you – it is because you are annoying them. When you resort to name calling, insults and accusing people you disagree with as being a liar – you are acting like an intolerant jerk. That is my point.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @@hawaiiguest

      And yet you are only seeing this as the end result comes about. I have tried to have conversations with Topher months ago. I wouldn't let him get away with dishonest tactics, and consistently called him out when he was avoiding an issue. Eventually he stopped responding, and when pressed gives a vague "uncivil" answer without actually giving any examples of when that happened during our conversations.
      Topher is a true coward, and it might have benefited you to actually ask about the past leading up to me calling him as such.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • Topher

      BRC

      Last comment, then got to go. Thanks for the conversation, by the way.

      Your court analogy lacks something. Jesus Christ was perfect. He never committed one sin. You and I have probably accu.mulated thousands, maybe millions of transgressions. But He didn't commit one. So when He took our punishment, God forsake Him. He was "spotless" like the lambs were supposed to be in the OT. So when He died, He did pay for your sin. As fully man, He represented each of us. As fully God, He was able to accomplish the impossible like defeating death and rising from the grave. It's truly an amazing thing.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • @hawaiiguest

      I'm sure you have been respectful and courteous.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @@hawaiiguest

      When people are actually willing to have honest discussion about the real issue behind many things, then yes I will be courteous. When people like Topher clearly show that they are merely interested in assuming their position must necessarily be true, and just try to rationalize and spin everything to avoid any criticism, then why should I be courteous?

      April 2, 2013 at 4:53 pm |
    • @hawaiiguest

      Yea, I can't think of one reason why somebody would be respectful to someone like that.

      I'm sure it is effective and isn't actually harming yourself.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @@hawaiiguest

      I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic.
      Effective in doing what? What do you think I'm trying to do?

      April 2, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • @DalaiLama's Twitter

      "Anger, hatred and jealousy never solve problems, only affection, concern and respect can do that."

      April 2, 2013 at 7:13 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Your court analogy lacks something. Jesus Christ was perfect. He never committed one sin"

      You shore do have that book shoved deep up your rectum, eh Gopher?

      April 2, 2013 at 7:58 pm |
    • sam stone

      saying all this stuff is true doesn't make it so, Gopher you continue to show that you have no desire to converse with people, only ly to preach at them. well, ya little rodent, not everyone shares your view, and you are doing a poor job communicating your "love of christ".....it's all this "blah, blah, we all deserve hell blah fvcking blah"

      the question is why anyone would want to worship the god you describe. Deny it's vindictiveness all you want. If this god needs people to issue EMPTY PROXY THREATS in it's name, he is no more than the Wizard of Oz for the iron age and logically challenged set

      April 2, 2013 at 8:34 pm |
  18. Reality

    Obviously, there is still a large part of the US population who suffer from the Three B Syndrome i.e. Bred, Born and Brainwashed in the myths of the bible, Judaism and Christianity.

    There are free cures available.

    April 2, 2013 at 11:38 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Thank God we believe, follow and practice His righteous teachings.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • Doobs

      @ HS

      You may believe, but you sure don't show any evidence of following and practicing.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Only Jesus is perfect and Christians practice what He taught.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Let's see... what did Jesus teach? Humility, compassion, love, honesty....
      So why do you claim to be a christian, HS?

      April 2, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      tallulah13, I'm not going to be bullied because you non-believer don't want to hear but need to hear His truth.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • tallulah13

      But you're a lying, name-calling bully. Where exactly did Jesus teach that?

      April 2, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      He first explained how foosl refuse to learn His wisdom. He then went on to say how the bad figs will be pruned forever. Should I go on with your babbling, wells without water, spiritually dead, etc.?

      April 2, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @HeavenSent

      And yet, you can't demonstrate that anything you say is true. You couldn't even provide scriptural support for your claim of 3 earth ages.
      It must really just burn you up to know people won't just accept what you assert as true to be so.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      hawaiiguest, I posted the site for you to read. http://www.biblestudysite.com/answers12.htm#6

      April 2, 2013 at 6:17 pm |
  19. tallulah13

    So why does Jesus look like a European? I thought he was a Middle-Eastern jew?

    April 2, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • sam stone

      Because it comforts people to see that Jeebus is like them

      April 2, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • ME II

      'tis the true miracle of Jesus, He appears as the viewer wants to see Him.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Jesus was a Judean. He died for all our sins. Not a pretty site.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      heaven spent
      There you go lying again.
      Sin is man made construct of your religion. Since I do not subscribe to your religion, I do not sin. There fore christ did not die for my sins.

      You can stop lying by adding "I believe" to your statement. Otherwise you post it as if it were true, which it isn't, but you believe it is.

      See the difference, and make the correction so you can stop lying.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      AB, do you believe in right versus wrong actions in life or have you not given it thought?

      April 2, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Richard Cranium, AB is how I refer to you.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • mzh

      i wonder why ppl has difficulties to accept who he (pbuh) was... rather making him what he was not like black, white, European, Chinese, Spanish, Indians and so on... this may actually prove that how week these human are in their faith that they can't/don't accept the fact...

      I also want to share this with the mankind: why ppl takes a media to worship straight to The Lord Almighty alone (monotheistic) who is The Creator of entire universe and has no partners, no sons and so on...

      If you read Luke, in one of the chapters you will find in the same page that human are being told to worship the father and later human are being told to come thru the son which is keeping a media to worship straight to The Lord Almighty... if you go back and study all the prophets and messengers time, you will find none taught their community to worship other than one true God The Almighty.... but here you see pph are being asked or told or taught to have a media between you and your creator... why? the answer is easy for the one who would think and use the brain.... i will give an example for the answer and i will assume you will know the answer...
      An employee reports to his manager and the manager is his cousin or close relative and the manager reports to the director, now if the employee does some mistakes which the director may have been informed, the employee with go to his manager as the manager is his close relative to talk for him to the director....
      A human commits a sin and some whisperers makes that human not to go straight to the Lord Almighty but to make a counselor to talk on behalf of him... and the human end up taking the middle man as The God and making the middle man as equivalent to The Lord Almighty...
      There could be lot more examples but it applies only to those who are willing to accept the truth and get out of the darknessess of polytheism....

      Peace!!!

      April 2, 2013 at 1:27 pm |
    • Honey Hush

      HeavenSent
      Who are you trying to fool you carnal gal, you would show up at the gates stark naked in the hope you could get lucky.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Heaven spent
      Why AB? Is that supposed to have some significance to me?

      April 2, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Honey Hush, obviously something I wrote irks you. What that is I am left pondering.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      AB, it depends on whether you favor the works of Gene Wilder.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      heavenspent
      If you are referring to "young Frankenstein" you mean Carl Reiner, Gene Wilder was one of the actors, but it was Marty Feldman who found the Abby normal brain.
      So it is a poorly veiled insult.

      I have news for you ...everyone is abnormal in one way or another.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      AB, Gene Wilder's character ordered Marty Feldman's character to retrieve the brain. Wilder is one of the writers.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
  20. ME II

    "'The Bible' finale ratings rival 'The Walking Dead'"

    LOL. resurrection... walking dead.... Love it!

    April 2, 2013 at 11:34 am |
    • tallulah13

      Oh, good one!

      April 2, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • Doobs

      Bwahaha! Best headline ever on this blog!

      April 2, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The "walking dead" are the nonbelievers of the world. Never funny.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
    • Doobs

      The walking dead are the people who spend this life waiting in false hope for the next life.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Paul

      It would have lost but in this instance both shows were about zombies, so people couldn't decide which zombie show to watch.

      April 2, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doobs, my response to you is what a Christian posted on this site years ago. It goes something like this "When an atheist dies they get all dressed up with nowhere to go".

      April 2, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      "When a christian dies they get all dressed up with no where to go!" is equally valid, HeavenStink.

      April 2, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • tallulah13

      The difference is that christians spend their entire life dressed up, waiting for a reward that will never come.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Are you suggesting they are intellectually dead from an early age, coincident with joining the christian dead jew zombie cult?

      April 2, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Some of them. (I hate to paint with a broad brush and some christians understand that their belief is not terribly logical.)

      But there are those who clothe themselves in ignorance and arrogance, then wait for a supernatural pat on the head.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Hark, do I read babble from babblers?

      April 2, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @HeavenSent

      So I take it your vacation from this site is over and you will impose your stupidity on us once again.

      April 2, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      What's the matter hawaiiguest, does refuting your babbling lies bother you?

      April 2, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @HeavenSent

      lies? Lol that's rich. You got any examples of when I lied?
      How's coming up with any kind of biblical support for your 3 ages claim? The site you provided last time was merely a bunch of assertions and spin.
      Or will you continue to post irrelevant responses to everything to avoid defending what you can't defend? You're a coward and you know it.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @HeavenSent

      Let's not forget that you don't refute anything. You merely show your ignorance, dishonesty, and arrogance in every non-response you give.

      April 2, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      I think Bill Deacon is hot. I'd like him to get carnal with me. And my cats.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      hawaiiguest, the 3 heaven ages and 3 earth ages have always been written in scriptures for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear His truth. I provided that site to make it easy for you to view said scriptures for yourself. Instead of reading scriptures for yourself, you insisted on finding fault with the site. You seem to be satisfied with viewing the glass half full.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Same goes to phony heavensent loving to wallow at the carnal level.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @HeavenSent

      I found fault with the plain fact that they merely pick a verse, and then spin it to fit what they think it should fit, just like every other Christian denomination.
      You can continue to reassert all you want, but that doesn't make any difference.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • tallulah13

      HS is just a vain creature who seems to think that Jesus owes her. Honestly, if she acts like this in real life she probably doesn't have any friends. She seems to want people to dislike her, possibly so that she can claim that she is persecuted. All in all, she seems a very nasty piece of work.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Do you actually think that a real, real smart, real, real powerful supernatural being would send a dope like HeavenSent to be its representative and ambassador? Any god worth its salt would crash her computer before she could do any more damage. Me, I encourage her to keep it up!

      April 2, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      hawaiiguest, you said it. YOU find fault.

      April 2, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • Doobs

      Doobs, my response to you is what a Christian posted on this site years ago. It goes something like this "When an atheist dies they get all dressed up with nowhere to go".

      Well, of course they have no where to go. They're dead. Duh.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      tallulah13 and A Frayed Knot, I assume you are both young because you haven't outgrown "protesting too much" which tells me that you are determined to get your way no matter howyour antisocial traits misguide you.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • tallulah13

      That's utterly hysterical coming from you, HS.

      "determined to get your way no matter howyour antisocial traits misguide you." describes you to a T. What a pathetic hypocrite you are!

      April 2, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @HeavenSent

      Are you really this stupid? I'm asking in all seriousness.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      HeavenSent,

      And I assume that you have not outgrown your juvenile wishful thinking in regard to your limited life span. Your desperate greed for more than this lifetime is quite egotistical. There is not a single shred of verification for your supernatural fantasy scenarios.

      April 2, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.