Muslims in North Caucasus concerned about ‘extremism'
April 23rd, 2013
09:47 AM ET

Muslims in North Caucasus concerned about ‘extremism'

By Dan Merica, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='DanMericaCNN']

Washington (CNN) – A majority of Muslims (57%) in Russia’s North Caucasus – including Chechnya, Dagestan and five other Russian jurisdictions – are either “very concerned” or “somewhat concerned” about religious extremist groups in their country, according to a Pew Research Center survey.

That number is higher than Russia as a whole, where more than four-in-10 Muslims in the country express the same level of concern.

This region of the world, particularly Chechnya and Dagestan, has been in the news recently because the suspects in last week’s Boston Marathon bombing – Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the younger brother who is still alive, and Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the older brother who died in a shootout last week – had familial ties to the region.

The two brothers were born in Kyrgyzstan, where 62% of Muslims told Pew they were very or somewhat concerned about extremism in the central Asian country.

Monday night, Dzhokhar told investigators that his older brother, Tamerlan, was the mastermind behind the Boston Marathon bombing that killed three and injured more than 260 people. Tamerlan appears to have become increasingly religious in the years leading up to the bombing, and interviews with family in Russia indicate that the older brother was radicalized while in America.

While there is so far no evidence that the brothers were associated to international jihadist groups, in August 2012, soon after returning from a long visit to Russia, Tamerlan created a YouTube channel with links to a number of videos including sermons or interviews with radical preachers.

Though extremist groups from Chechnya have carried out terrorist acts since the early 2000s, most of those attacks have been focused on Russia. An example: the Beslan school hostage crises in September 2004, where more than 300 people were killed.

Though experts say the Caucasus are quieter now, Thomas de Waal, an expert on the region, says there is a constant a low-level Islamist insurgency there.

The Pew data released Tuesday is part of a larger report on the state of Islam conducted from October 2011 to February 2012, with research collected before the Boston bombings.

The survey also found that Muslims in Russia’s North Caucasus – the dominant religion in the region – are more concerned about Islamic extremist groups than Christian groups. Thirty-six percent of Muslims said they were primarily worried about Islamic extremists, while only 2% indicated they were worried about Christian groups.

Russia, as a whole, is primarily Christian, with 73% of its population identifying with the faith, according to Pew’s 2012 Global Religious Landscape report. About 10% of the country’s population is Muslim – most of which live in the Russian Caucasus.

Likewise, in the brothers' birthplace of Kyrgyzstan, 32% of Muslims were concerned about Islamic extremist groups, while 5% were concerned with Christian extremism. According to Pew’s numbers on world religions, Muslims make up 88% of the country’s population, while 11% of Kyrgyz people are Christian.

In light of the bombing, Muslim leaders in Boston and around the United States condemned the attacks. “I don't care who or what these criminals claim to be, but I can never recognize these criminals as part of my city or my faith community," said Yusufi Vali, executive director for the Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center, the largest mosque in the Boston area.

Imam Talal Eid, the imam at the Boston Islamic Institute, told CNN that he would refuse to give Tamerlan last rites. "A person who is devoted does not kill innocent people," Eid said.

- CNN’s Eric Marrapodi and Jake Tapper contributed to this report.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Islam • Polls • Russia • Terrorism

soundoff (902 Responses)
  1. lionlylamb

    Religions of the masses are generally enigmatic and not worthy of anyone following along. God was once and still is and shall ever so be the first and last of spatial enigmas. Life's humaneness needs a sense of individualized spirituality in order for anyone to be wholesomely reminiscent around the tawdry rhythms of semi-personalized integrities. The lacking of spiritual ident ities devalues sensual socialisms of dubious mental integrities. God needs no book of scriptural demises for God cannot be shackled by worded euphemisms of mental inequalities. We are the Gods' husbandry and thru the equalities of cosmic mysteries, our ever ongoing semantics will be bereft of the Gods' kingdom domains.

    April 23, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • The Arbiter

      Gibberish. NEXT!

      April 23, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • David

      You have a rare form of diarea of the mouth-keep it shut and you will be cuired!

      April 23, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      You two "kids",,,, nuff said!

      April 23, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
  2. Lycidas

    I am eating a lot of prunes to flush myself out real hard.

    April 23, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • bristoltwit palin... America's favorite dancing cow

      Mmmmmmmmm... that's what I like to do on a date...

      April 23, 2013 at 1:32 pm |


      April 23, 2013 at 5:45 pm |
  3. SpainCub

    What worries me is that I don´t see a strong retaliation of Muslims regarding and/or their spiritual leaders condemning such acts, their silence echoes a broader message to the extremist and jihadist, one that is necessarily negative to these events.

    April 23, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Alias

      Maybe you should listen to what they are saying instead of acting like they owe it to you to deliver the message to your door.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
  4. Mark B.

    easy – convert!

    April 23, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
  5. Jim D

    4 in 10 is NOT a majority. Also if you are worried about it DO something about it. Apathy implies consent and approval. Thats why most non Islamics don't trust any Muslims they never say anything. All we see is dragging of bodies through the streets of non-muslims, beheadings and cheering from those countries

    April 23, 2013 at 12:59 pm |
    • catLoversInc

      spot on!

      April 23, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • marianna

      'All we see is dragging of bodies through the streets of non-muslims, beheadings and cheering from those countries...'

      Maybe that is all that is presented to you and maybe that is all that you want to see.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • Simple Math

      4 out of 10 is a majority since 4 out of every 3 americans do not understand fractions.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • Lokari

      Ten points for understanding fractions. Minus 100 for lack of reading comprehension.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Lokari, Do you think it's poor reading comprehension or really bad geography knowledge?

      April 23, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
  6. STFU

    ya but there are 100% non-muslims are concerned as opposed to only 57% muslims.

    April 23, 2013 at 12:54 pm |
    • Mike

      Yeah? You have an official study done to figure that number out? You should take your own advice and stfu.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • STFU

      @did I touch a raw nerve Mike uummm Muhammed?

      April 23, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Canada


      April 23, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
  7. Peter

    What worries me is religion in general! Why humans still invest in this nonsense in the 21st century is beyond me. It's directly to blame for too many conflicts throughout history and I see no end in sight at this rate. Wake up people and take control of your own life!

    April 23, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Paul

      I don't see how people that "control their lives" as you put it would benefit mankind any better.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • Chad

      Have you ever considered that the God of Israel is actually real?

      What investigation have you done to reject Judeo/Christianity?

      April 23, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Paul, At a minimum we wouldn't have education and social life compromised by someone's religious beliefs and we wouldn't have the "my god is better than yours" conflicts.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • stantonl

      Peter – I have to say that I agree with you 100%. It is indeed "beyond you". My suggestion would be that you spend your mental resources in more basic endeavors for now – things that are within your grasp.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Heather Garvie

      I could not agree more. Thank you for your comment.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • Alias

      have you ever consideres that the native americans may have worshipped the only true gods?

      April 23, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      1 John 3:8  

      He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • Science

      Chad is a troll too !

      For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !

      Where do morals come from?

      By Kelly Murray, CNN


      Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.

      Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’

      Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
      bears his name as the “God particle.”


      Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
      Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \



      Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
      By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...


      April 7th, 2012

      08:32 PM ET

      The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth


      Make sure to read comments

      April 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |

      Breaking News

      NASA: Three planets found are some of best candidates so far for habitable worlds outside our solar system.


      April 23, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • Mike

      And it's people like you who prove Athiests are just as close minded as the worst of any religious zealot.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:58 pm |
    • DavieFL

      Is part of the human nature. It will vanish the day we vanish.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Mike, Either there is evidence of a god or there is not. We have yet to see any.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      There are so many folk who are certain that their God, their church and their interpretation of their holy book is the One Truth... what unmitigated arrogance!

      If the One True Deity, shaper of The Universe, wishes their words to be transmitted and adhered to, they should have been a bit less ambiguous. Expecting people to select The Truth out of limitless possibilities on faith alone seems a sloppy way to run things – especially if the punishment for a wrong choice is eternal torment.

      Who is to say that Angus, Belenos, Brigid, dana, Lugh, Dagda, Epona, Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares, Artemis, Atehna, Demeter, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Gaia, Hades, Hekate, Helios, Hephaestus, Hera, hermes, Hestia, Pan, Poseidon, Selene, Uranus, Zeus, Mathilde, Elves, Eostre, Frigg, Hretha, Saxnot, Shef, Thuno, Tir, Weyland, Woden, Alfar, Balder, Beyla, Bil, Bragi, Byggvir, Dagr, Disir, Eir, Forseti, Freya, Freyr, Frigga, Heimdall, Hel, Hoenir, Idunn, Jord, Lofn, Loki, Mon, Njord, Norns, Nott, Odin, Ran, saga, Sif, Siofn, Skadi, Snotra, Sol, Syn, Ull, Thor, Tyr, Var, Vali, Vidar, Vor, Black Shuck, Herne, Jack in the Green, Holda, Nehalennia, Nerthus, endovelicus, Ataegina, Runesocesius, Apollo, Bacchus, Ceres, Cupid, Diana, Janus, Juno, Jupiter, Maia, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Neptune, Pluto, Plutus, Proserpina, Venus, Vesta, Vulcan, Attis, Cybele, El-Gabal, Isis, Mithras, Sol Invictus, Endovelicus, Anubis, Aten, Atum, Bast, Bes, Geb, Hapi, Hathor, Heget, Horus, Imhotep, Isis, Khepry, Khnum, Maahes, Ma’at, Menhit, Mont, Naunet, Neith, Nephthys, Nut, Osiris, Ptah, ra, Sekhmnet, Sobek, Set, Tefnut, Thoth, An, Anshar, Anu, Apsu, Ashur, Damkina, Ea, Enki, Enlil, Ereshkigal, Nunurta, Hadad, Inanna, Ishtar, Kingu, Kishar, Marduk, Mummu, Nabu, Nammu, Nanna, Nergal, Ninhursag, Ninlil, Nintu, Shamash, Sin, Tiamat, Utu, Mitra, Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukiyomi, Inari, Tengu, Izanami, Izanagi, Daikoku, Ebisu, Benzaiten, Bishamonten, Fu.kurokuju, Jurojin, Hotei, Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, Inti, Kon, Mama Cocha, Mama Quilla, Manco Capac, Pachacamac, Viracoc.ha, or Zaramama aren't true gods?
      How can the Tanakh, Talmud, Midrash, New Testament, Quran, Sunnah, Nahjul Balagha, Avesta, Vedas, Upanisahds, Bhagavad Gita, Puranas, Tantras, Sutras, Vachanas, Adi Granth, Purvas, Samayasara, Niyamasara, Pravacanasara, and Pancastikaya; Anupreksa; Samadhishataka of Pujyapada; Tattvarthasutra of Umasvati, Tattvarthasutra, Pali Tripitaka, Jataka,, Visuddimagga, Tripitaka, Lotus Sutra, Garland Sutra, Analects; the Great Learning; the Doctrine of the Mean; the Mencius, Tao Te Ching, Chuang-tzu, Kojiki, Nihon Shoki, K-oki, Ofudesaki, Mikagura-uta, Michi-no-Shiori, Johrei, Goseigen, Netarean Shower of Holy Doctrines, Chun Boo Kyung, Kitab-i-Iqan, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, Book of Mormon, Dianetics, or Revelation X be dismissed as Holy Books since they all claim to be The Truth?

      April 23, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • DavieFL

      Peter, religion Is part of the human nature. It will vanish the day we vanish.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • WASP

      i vote that santa is god:
      god is omnipotent, santa knows who is naughty and nice
      god is all powerful, santa can deliever toys to every boy and girl in one night.
      god is all present, santa knows when you are sleeping , he knows when you're awake.

      thus per logic santa is god so go to toys r' us and start praying.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Mike.................. you might want to check where your head is at !

      Unusual Anal Fin Offers New Insight Into Evolution

      Apr. 10, 2013 — An unusual fossil fish that has fins behind its anus


      April 23, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • goddog

      I agree that religion in general is a big problem. All religions "prove" themselves in the same ways and all of their "gods" seem to like to hide, never showing themselves in any demostrable way, and never doing anything that doesn't already happen by chance. That each "believer" assumes that their god is THE god necessarily puts them at odds with every other religion. One can find in "scripture" the words to justify all manner of things, good or bad. It is only by our natural, secular morals that we can choose good over bad. If we leave it up to our "gods", any evil thing can be good by it's "words" and in it's name.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Peter Is an Idiot

      Yes, Peter. Religion is to blame for the Holocaust, and the hundreds of thousands killed throughout history by governments competing for land and power. It's all religion's fault, PEOPLE have nothing to do with it, right? Peter, you are what happens when people don't pay attention in History class. Religion has been used as a TOOL to control the uneducated and to conquer in the name of power... but so have MONEY, DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM, etc.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • i12bphil

      What worries me is people who's reasoning works like this: "Man created God and religion. Religion has caused all man's problems."... Yet it was man who created religion, right? If man created religion, wouldn't it be man who has caused all man's problems? Therefore if religion was removed from the world, man would still be the cause of all man's problems.

      Dropping the circular reasoning would be the first step you have towards any credibility with the claim that religion and God are the cause of all the Earth's problems if they are truly our creation in the first place.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • chuckt

      You are so wrong. Christianity has never and never will kill in Jesus name. Funny that the closer someone is to Jesus, the less likely they are to do anything to harm someone else . The closer someone is to Allah or Islam, the more likely they are to kill in their god's name. Christianity is easier to complain against since it does not fight back. Fact, look at how many bibles are burned in other countries and also how many christians are killed because of what they believe.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • wheels

      Iv thought the exact same thing for so long. There are hundreds of different religions in the world, everyone believes their faith is the correct one. The only thing they all share in common is they are all wrong. Wasting their lives on something that is as real as the Easter Bunny

      April 23, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • A Frayed Knot

      And another baby of fundamentalist "God" healers has died - the second one for this idiotic couple in 4 years.


      April 23, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Science

      Hey WASP....................the fruitcakes from xmas past !

      April 23, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • Peter

      To clarify, I am against organized religion, not faith and God. I have nothing against people having faith, just don't force your beliefs on others, use it to discriminate, or kill in God's name. I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God, there is too much unknown about the universe to make any conclusions. If anyone truly could prove it then there would be one or no religion at all.

      stantonl: Not to be conceded but as a physicist I grasp things most people can't so my mental resources are not an issue. What is beyond me is thought process of people who so blatantly reject everything in their path that doesn't agree with their view of the universe.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • JMEF

      Chad...I am a direct descendant of Zeus, I stand by that claim and I know that the god of Israel is just a joke. What investigation of my ancestry are you prepared to do to prove my claim false? Just saying that is not true is a non-starter, I command you to investigate or I shall sick Hercules on you.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • Pete Clarke

      After all this is the age of science, better to put your efforts into the here and now than to expect life after death. Killing and maiming in the name of any religion is nothing more than a waste of a human life.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • WASP

      @science: nah fruitcake is your eternal torment for not believeing in santa. repent and rejoice in his elfieness. lmfao

      April 23, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Dose of Reality

      Peter – ignore the negative responses from the pathetic "believers" on this board. Religion is for the weak-minded who are afraid of death. Period. There is no question that "God" doesn't exist. There is no God – that is a fact, not a belief. Anyone who believes in any God is a pathetic, weak moron. Even the religious fools know it and are afraid to admit it. It amazes me that in 2013 there are people who still "believe" in "God" of any kind. Science has proven that and will continue to prove it. Humans are the only creatures aware of their own inevitable death so they manufacture religion and "God" to make themselves feel better. When we die, we turn to dirt – they can't handle that concept. Humans shouldn't require fairy tales to structure their morality – it is truly pathetic.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Doc Vestibule,
      “Expecting people to select The Truth out of limitless possibilities on faith alone seems a sloppy way to run things – especially if the punishment for a wrong choice is eternal torment.”

      Based on your comment above I can’t help but think that you have no idea what faith is. God gives each person a measure of faith, what determines your eternity is what you do with it. The book of Hebrews could give you more insight into faith. You will notice that all those commended for their faith had personal experiences with God that served to build, affirm, and reaffirm their faith.

      God is a spirit. Seek and you will find. Would you seek evidence of a marine animal in the desert? What purpose does it serve to seek physical evidence for a spiritual being? God says seek and you will find, not deny and you will find. Peace.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      Chad, I read and studied the bible for 20 years and decided it was nonsense.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      chuckt, Take a look at the crusades, inquisition, and the missions to various places such as Africa and the Pacific Islands.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • JMEF

      You are deluded beyond help. The seductive power of absolute belief, the inscrutable va-garies of biblical interpretation and how our minds can shape reality to fit a narrative is what you have become. Any idiot can invent a religion, it takes a real fool to believe in one.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • John

      JHT, I read it and decided it was overwhelming truth. God doesn't stop there though, if you don't. Try to see a ditch for what it is.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • Peter

      Peter Is an Idiot: I did quite well in history actually but this is a comment section directly related to religion so that is where my statements focused on. I agree with you that religion is just one factor, ultimately human nature is the real problem. We are masters of our own destruction... But to what extent can a species change it's very nature?

      April 23, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      The bible is just a rehashing/combination of previous religions of the area.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • John

      I would have the entire world call me a fool if I could say one thing back to them: I believe God.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • Hercules

      Did someone say my name?

      April 23, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • John

      DV, you are wasting your time reading most of those, they are false religions. The only God there is, is described in the Bible, and the New Testament tells you what you need to know about being saved through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Don't waste your time with myths like Hercules and such.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      John, What evidence do you have that those other gods do not exist?

      April 23, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • John

      The word of God.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      What a fantastic and well thought out circular argument you've made there. No one has ever come up with such a convincing and foolproof argument for the Christian god's existence.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • History Channel's "The Bible" Parts 3 & 4 - In Under 11 Minutes!

      For John and peter


      April 23, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • Max

      John, "The Word of God" as you describe it is not evidence, its your belief. I do believe Santa is looking for you to provide some empirical data.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • John

      I believed what God said, and will not trade that for anything.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • John

      Here is your empiracle data, I will not trade anything for God. I will not deny God for anything.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • Chad

      @John H. Travis "I read and studied the bible for 20 years and decided it was nonsense."

      =>based on what, specifically?

      April 23, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • I wonder

      " I will not trade anything for God. I will not deny God for anything."

      Would you kill for your "God", John?

      April 23, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      In other words, like Chad, fred, Salero, and the myriad of other Christians on this forum, you want to tell everyone what is "truth" based merely on your belief and say so, and do not want to be challenged in any way to back up your statements.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      Chad, based on the first chapter of Genesis through Revelation. There are far too many holes and contradictions for the bible to be true. While some of the people and places mentioned in the bible were/are real most of the stories are made up. Like for Example Jesus being the son of god.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      There could be a god, but god as described in the bible is a logical impossibility.

      April 23, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • Science

      And chad the troll shows up again !

      April 23, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      So which lies and dishonest tactics are on your list of arguments to use today?

      April 23, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      The standard Chad answer is that they obviously haven't "investigated" enough since they came to a different conclusion, or they don't accept Chad's interpretation, therefore they are biased and just want to hate god.
      Just keep saying those two things in your head and you can have an entire conversation with Chad without him typing a thing.

      April 23, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      I have always enjoyed the " you just aren't doing it right" argument.

      April 23, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Chad

      @John H. Travis "based on the first chapter of Genesis through Revelation. There are far too many holes and contradictions for the bible to be true. While some of the people and places mentioned in the bible were/are real most of the stories are made up. Like for Example Jesus being the son of god."

      =>holes and contradictions like what?
      If Jesus was physically resurrected from the dead, then He certainly is the Messiah, the Son of God. On what basis do you discount the resurrection?

      April 23, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      There goes Chad with his Shifting the Burden of Proof.
      "The resurrection happened because the bible says so. PROVE IT WRONG."
      Pathetic, predictable Chad.

      April 23, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      how do you know whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, oriental Orthodox, As.syrian, Byzantine, Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, Anabaptism, Brethren, Methodist, Pietism, Apostolic, Pentocostal, Charismatic, African Initiated, United, Quakers, Couthcotti.tism, Millerism, British-Isrealism, Latter Day Saints, Mennonite, 7th day Adventism, Kelleyism, Co.oneyism, Shakers, Methernitha, Strigolniki, Yehowism, Christadelphians, Christian Science, doukhobors, Iglesia ni Cristo, Makuya, Molokans, Subbotniks, Ebionism, Martinism, Rosicrucians, Rastafarianism, Santo Daime, or Umbanda is the REAL interpretation of your God's words?

      And which version of the Bible is the inerrant one?
      American Standard Version, American King James Version, Amplified Bible, An American Translation, ArtScroll Tanakh (Old Testament), An American Translation, Berkeley Version, Bible in English, The Bible in Living English, Bishops' Bible, Catholic Public Domain Version, Children's King James Version, Christian Community Bible, English version, Clear Word Bible, Complete Jewish Bible, Contemporary English Version, Concordant Literal Version, A Conservative Version, Coverdale Bible, Darby Bible, Douay-Rheims Bible, Douay-Rheims Bible (Challoner Revision), EasyEnglish Bible, Easy-to-Read Version, English Jubilee 2000 Bible, English Standard Version, Ferrar Fenton Bible, Geneva Bible, God's Word, Good News Bible, Great Bible, Holman Christian Standard Bible, The Inclusive Bible, International Standard Version, Jerusalem Bible, Jewish Publication Society of America Version Tanakh (Old Testament), Judaica Press Tanakh (Old Testament), ia E. Smith Parker Translation, King James 2000 Version, King James Easy Reading Version, King James Version, King James II Version, Knox's Translation of the Vulgate, Lamsa Bible, A Literal Translation of the Bible, Leeser Bible, Tanakh (Old Testament), The Living Bible, The Living Torah and The Living Nach. Tanakh (Old Testament), Matthew's Bible, The Message, Modern King James Version, Modern Language Bible, Moffatt, New Translation, James Murdock's Translation of the Syriac Pesh.itta, New American Bible, New American Standard Bible, New Century Version, New English Bible, New English Translation (NET Bible), New International Reader's Version, New International Version Inclusive Language Edition, New International Version, New Jerusalem Bible, New Jewish Publication Society of America Version. Tanakh (Old Testament), New King James Version, New Life Version, New Living Translation, New Revised Standard Version, New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, Quaker Bible, Recovery Version of the Bible, Revised Version, Revised Standard Version, Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition, Revised English Bible, Rotherham's Emphasized Bible, The Scriptures, Simplified English Bible, The Story Bible, Taverner's Bible, Thomson's Translation, Today's New International Version, Third Millennium Bible, Tyndale Bible, Updated King James Version, A Voice In The Wilderness Holy Scriptures, Webster's Revision,Westminster Bible, The Work of God's Children Illustrated Bible, Wycliffe's Bible (1380), Wycliffe's Bible (1388), Young's Literal Translation?

      April 23, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      o A lot of the core prophecies "fulfilled" by Jesus are up for debate.
      For example: They say that Jesus being born of a virgin fulfills the Isaiah 7:14prophecy.
      However, the Hebrew term in Isaiah “almah” which means a “young woman”. "Virgin" is a mistranslation.
      Christians assert that Jesus is from David's line, but Christ was not Joseph’s biological son and tribal line cannot be passed on through adoption. Jesus cannot be "son of David" through Joseph. A tribal line also does not pass through the mother.
      Furthermore, did Jesus manage to:
      1) Rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem? Kind of hard to do since the Temple still stood during Christ's lifetime.
      2) Re-establish Jewish law as the only law?
      3) Save Israel? Lessee – just after His zombification, the Holy Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed, Jerusalem was laid to waste, and the Jews went into exile to begin a 1900 year long night of persecution, — largely at the hands of Jesus' followers.
      4) Establish a world government run from Jerusalem?
      5) Return all the exiled Jews to Jerusalem?
      Don't forget that during that time, there were MANY claimaints to the Messiah role like Simon of Peraea, Athronges, Menahem ben Judah, Vespasian, Simon bar Kokhba, etc. ad nauseum.

      April 23, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • JMEF

      Dumb question after dumb question after dumb question, as a descendant of Zeus I answer to no other God but Him. Your interpretation of Harry Potter and the Death Hallows is equally feeble, I will rely on my own opinion, having free will and all.

      April 23, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      I used my brain, and came to the amazing conclusion that people don't come back from the dead, then combined that with the fact that nowhere outside of the bible is there an account of Jesus rising from the dead. Thus I was able to conclude that the story was most likely made up.

      April 23, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      Also, if you have read the bible and are unwilling to admit that it contains at least a few errors and contradictions then we can stop the discussion right now because there is no hope for you.

      April 23, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • Greg

      The King James AV with red text where Jesus is speaking is my personal favorite.

      April 23, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Greg

      There are so many ways to prove God right, what he said, using a calculator... I could prove him right in my sleep. Or go get something to eat.

      April 23, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • Chad

      @John H. Travis "I used my brain, and came to the amazing conclusion that people don't come back from the dead"

      =>That Jesus specifically didnt, or that no one does, so that means Jesus didnt?

      April 23, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • Chad

      @John H. Travis "Also, if you have read the bible and are unwilling to admit that it contains at least a few errors and contradictions"

      =>like.. what?

      April 23, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, Your selective memory again! Daily you are reminded that Genesis is not correct. Big Bang, evolution, amongst others. Even if there were evidence of a god, there are so many conflicting beliefs in different gods how would one know which is the true one. I know you'll say "the bible says" but that's another thing you sidestep – the holy books of other religions contradict that. What compelling evidence do you have for yours that isn't from your holy book?

      April 23, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • JMEF

      You are about to get into an endless circular argument that even when Chad is cornered will never admit he is wrong. Chad's only conclusion ever is his god of Israel is real, the end. Any idiot can invent a religion, it takes a real fool to believe in one.

      April 23, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      Of the top of my head I would start with the concept of an all loving god who sets up a system of eternal punishment. You can't hold the position that god is all loving and at the same time think people go to H.ell because an all loving god would forgive everyone and send everyone to heaven.

      April 23, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      Since it seems you are going to take the position that the bible is never wrong I will take this opportunity to say I feel sorry for you, and end the conversation. However, if you will point out just one thing you think the bible got wrong I will continue talking with you.

      April 23, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • Chad

      @Santa "Daily you are reminded that Genesis is not correct."
      @Chad "the ONLY issue that is unresolved from Genesis is plants before animals.

      @Santa "Big Bang, evolution, amongst others.
      @Chad "Big Bang origination of the universe (as opposed to "universe having always been here") is CERTAINLY supported by genesis. And God said, “Let there be light,” - Genesis 1

      As is a common ancestry Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being - Genesis 2

      @Santa "Even if there were evidence of a god, there are so many conflicting beliefs in different gods how would one know which is the true one"
      @Chad "do some investigation 🙂

      @Santa " the holy books of other religions contradict that. What compelling evidence do you have for yours that isn't from your holy book?"
      @Chad "The contents are accurate and true .."

      April 23, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • Chad

      @John H. Travis "Of the top of my head I would start with the concept of an all loving god who sets up a system of eternal punishment."

      =>that isnt Judeo/Christian doctrine.
      Judeo/Christian doctrine says that God created man, man made a choice to sin, that sin separated man from God, that separation remains in place unless man takes advantage of the means for reconciliation that God has provided.

      Now, you can claim that's nonsense, but you cant claim the bible teaches that God set up a system of eternal punishment

      April 23, 2013 at 4:45 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      As has been pointed out to you before, bats are not birds, dipping a bird in another slain birds blood, then sprinkling it over your person and your home does not cure leprosy, there is no geological evidence of a global flood, the earth is not a circle held up by 4 pillars immobile in space with a canopy stretched over it where the stars are "placed".
      Must I go on? You've ignored this every time before now, so I highly doubt you'll address it all.

      April 23, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      John, While I've seen the type of arguments people lambast Chad for (frankly can't understand the amount of energy they put into arguing with him), I have to point out that your understanding of heaven and hell is a miss characterization. A more widely accepted theological view is that God created heaven and provides a way for us to that place where joy and peace and love are never ending. If we choose not to go there, he allows that choice. Thus, the place we end up is not heaven, it is hell but it is by our own volition, not because he sends us there. As someone who claims to have studied the Bible for so long, I would have thought you understood that concept. So, I am left with two conclusions; A. Your studies are indeed inadequate to comprehend the material and B Your rejection of the Bible as truth based on your flawed interpretation is errant.

      You may reference the Catholic catechism (just google "catechism on hell" for the Catholic view) Though my knowledge is not comprehensive of other faiths, I believe most Christians will tell you that heaven or hell is your choice, not God's

      April 23, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • Richard Cranium


      God could not have said let there be light if there was nothing before light. There would be no matter to draw breath required to speak, and no matter to carry the sound.

      Genesis fail number one...what else ya got

      April 23, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      I'm sorry but if god is all loving then he would love everyone no matter what they did, and everyone would go to heaven. , Either god is not all loving or h.ell does not exist it really is that simple. God created the entire universe, but somehow he is not responsible for hell? Really?

      April 23, 2013 at 4:54 pm |


      April 23, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      I have read the bible, and the fact that my interpretation of it differs from the Catholic Church's interpretation is rather meaningless. If people were supposed to all have the same interpretation of the bible there would only be the Catholic Church.

      April 23, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • John

      RC, why do you think God needs air to speak? What is sound when you comprehend it in your mind?

      April 23, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      Yes that's a standard apologetic cop-out. However, I can choose right now not to go to hell, but your god would say:
      "Nope, you have to believe in me with no evidence, and you have to love me or you still go to hell".
      Your god makes the decision, not the human.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • Chad

      @hawaiiguest "bats are not birds
      @Chad "an animal clas sification that we invented 4000 years after is really binding on bible.. correct?

      @hawaiiguest "dipping a bird in another slain birds blood, then sprinkling it over your person and your home does not cure leprosy"
      @Chad "you are confusing curing and cleansing.. you should investigate Jewish ritualistic cleansing..

      @hawaiiguest "there is no geological evidence of a global flood"
      @Chad "A. we dont know that the bible refers to a global flood, or merely the "entire earth" as they knew it
      B. We have no idea when the flood occurred

      @hawaiiguest "the earth is not a circle held up by 4 pillars immobile in space with a canopy stretched over it where the stars are "placed".
      @Chad "Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble - Job

      But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom
      and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.
      13 When he thunders, the waters in the heavens roar; he makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth.
      He sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses.

      both are obviously metaphor

      April 23, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      The most important thing to realize is that Adam and Eve never existed, and thus there was no original sin. Therefore, there was no need for the sacrifice of Jesus to forgive original sin.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
    • Chad

      @Richard Cranium "God could not have said let there be light if there was nothing before light. There would be no matter to draw breath required to speak, and no matter to carry the sound."

      =>Judeo/Christian doctrine is that God exists independent of our universe, He doesnt need our air to breath or speak.
      You can claim thats nonsense, but you cant claim that God needs air to breath and carry sound..

      April 23, 2013 at 5:04 pm |
    • paul

      Chad, god being all knowing, would have known that in the future bats and birds would be classified differently and could have put it in the bible well ahead of time. This would have been impressive, but god never seems to know any more than the people alive at the time. I wonder why that is?

      April 23, 2013 at 5:05 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll...and
      Stated...A criminal might subvert this sacrament but that would make him a criminal, not a priest and would result in automatic ex-communication.
      Bills wisdom...The truth is the truth whether everyone believes it or no one believes it. ???
      Bills whole life can be summed up on his reliance on the dictates of the RCC and the catechism. Chad and bill are interchangeable in their faith that the god of Israel is real. Faith is the devious art of defending fantasy and protecting at all cost the crimes of the church.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      No bird reproduces by live birth, bats do. Bats are flying mammals, but the bible says they're birds. This is consistent with ignorant ancient people attempting to classify things. Are you saying bats are birds?
      Considering they had no concept of germs or the causes of disease, and attributed leprosy as a curse from god for wrongdoing, there's no difference in the context of that particular ritual. Aren't you always going on about context?
      So the bible is metaphorical when it doesn't fit with what we know, and it is therefore still correct. How convenient.
      Pathetic Chad.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • Science

      Chad and Billie remember the pope ? = no fairy in the sky !


      April 23, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • oOo

      ♫ A bat is not a bird..
      Even when we know they both can laaaay a turd...
      But a bat is not a bird,
      And a house is not a home,
      If you go to school...
      and learn the difference... ohhhmmmmmmm..... ♫

      April 23, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • John

      God said what he said, and he is right. Atheists say "nothing did it" and get upset if you ask them to prove it. I still have an empty spot on my desktop waiting for "nothing" to form a universe on it. Steven Hawking said nothing made the universe, and I think he's full of it, head to toe. Simple request all you 'nothing god' believerse, form a universe, or tell me how to do it so I can verify your claims. Otherwise, I've seen so much "prove all things hold fast that which is good" from God, that I can hardly keep track of it, literally. I'm not complaining, God, but really, you do make it about as obvious as it can be, without giving it away to everyone that doubts you... that is for sure. Have a good day, Yahweh, you are the best.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Sound once it gets to the auditory nerve, becomes electric signals and chemicals. Still has substance.

      Light cannot exist without matter, but there was no matter when god supposedly created light....again...genesis fail number 1

      Also it goes on to say that he seperated the light and the darkness...the two are not seperatable, one is the absence of the other...darkness is just a term defining how much light there is, Genesis fail #2

      It goes on to say that he created the plants next....he would need the cytoplasm, bacteria, molds and funguses first.
      Plants would never be without them, then he would also need insects, worms and other tiny creatures in order for the plants to survive.. Genesis fail #3

      He then went on to create man in his image...why aren't we invisible then...OR...why does god need reproductive organs, why would god need eyes, ears etc...clearly we created the image of this particular god....Genesis fail #4.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      So just more assertions, and misrepresentation? I guess that's really all people like you and Chad have to bring. Such a sad state of affairs when willful ignorance is lauded as a good thing.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:38 pm |
    • oOo

      You're right, Richard. If the Abrahamic God were real, he would have been a crocodile. They have much better immune systems and I'm thinking their ancestors were probably around longer than ours. They may just surpass us because of those immune systems, too!

      April 23, 2013 at 5:38 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      You are lying when it comes to atheists....we do not believe goddidit that is true, but we do not know for sure. We are looking for how the big bang occurred. It is possible that all the matter/mass in the universe has always existed, or it was all created at the big bang...we do not know, but at least we are trying to find out...we aren't taking the word of ignorant, superst!tious men from 2000 years ago as if it has meaning.
      It is the religious that think they know, claim it is truth and then cannot prove it.
      I do not have to prove that we do not know since I am not the one making the claim...you claim god exists and goddidit...you prove it.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • Chad


      regarding bat, Hebrew "`owph" refers to any winged creature.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, "God exists independent of our universe, He doesnt need our air to breath or speak."

      So we're not created in its image after all. Another fail for the bible.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
    • Science

      Good stuff for the kids................. John...................time to grow up maybe ? and fred !

      Thai Researchers Discover 100-Million-Year-Old Crocodile Fossile


      April 23, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
    • Chad

      @John H. Travis "The most important thing to realize is that Adam and Eve never existed"

      =>you are making a claim that you know they did not exist.
      How could you possibly hope to back that up with evidence?

      April 23, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      Which is still consistent with it being written by ignorant people who did not know anything about the differentiation between birds and mammals. You would think a book inspired by a "perfect being" would show that differentiation. It would in fact lend credence that these people were getting information from a more knowledgeable source. But it doesn't.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • John

      RC, me answer you about Genesis? Why? You and all the other atheists have yet to answer my simple question. I want to have a unverse forming on my desktop, right there next the mouse. I want all the matter and energy that it took to form the universe, right there. I don't care if everything melts, I can clean it up later. Mess doesn't bother me like some people. After that, I want to see life forming from nothing, and species, just like science claims the 'nothing god' does "all the time, no problem". Well? When do I get the promised goods from science? If I'm going to reject God for science's 'nothing god', give me MORE than God gave me... when will this happen? Are you the one that knows the answers? Steven Hawking doesn't, he made claims but he didn't form any universe to prove it.

      Evolution? Don't bother, reverse evolution... voids it. Null... science gave up on that one.

      God didn't give up, he made everything and I believe him.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:49 pm |
    • hawaiiguest


      You need to learn you some science. Then maybe you wouldn't be showing the astounding amount of ignorance you are with every post.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:51 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      "you are making a claim that you know Adam and Eve did not exist. How could you possibly hope to back that up with evidence?"

      How could you possibly back up your belief that they did with evidence?
      Evolution and DNA show that the Adam and Eve story as described in the bible is not true.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:54 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      You are clearly not going to understand reality. You ould prefer to live in a virtual world based on the flawed fictional works of men that was based on many other cultures stories from before your bible was created.

      It is pointless to talk to those who have been so badly brainwashed. If you had any logic or reason circuits working in your brain, it would become obvious that the bible is EXTREMELY flawed and as such, if it is your gods word, then he is as flawed as that ridiculous book.

      Simple science disproves so much of the bible...why would god give you such a flawed instruction manual...answer...he didn't. Men did.

      April 23, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, "both are obviously metaphor"

      So you agree that the bible is not literally true. So the empty tomb is a metaphor for what?

      April 23, 2013 at 6:07 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Chad, More lies. The whole of Genesis is "in question". All of the evidence shows that none of Genesis is true. The point about other religions (as you know but sidestepped as usual) was that there are thousands of religions, as there is no evidence of a god what criteria could you possibly have for choosing. Perhaps you could explain what informed your choice – don't just say I read the bible. Why do you reject all the other religions and their holy books – there is no evidence for any of them.

      April 23, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Did Chad run or is he waiting until he thinks people left the thread, possibly in the hopes of being able to spew more stupidity and dodges without challenge?

      April 23, 2013 at 7:30 pm |
  8. lol??

    It's really a federal policy foul-up. The majority of the peaceful american Muslims just let nature take its course and quietly support Planned Parenthood and the abortion mills. Obama should take action with the imprisoned terrorists. Place two armed guards on each, put em to work in the parent clinics sweepin' up, and Romney's disposal company can get some kinda tax break by doin' the paper work. When their time served is complete and go back home, they'll be sayin', "Don't do nuthin'! They're doin' a better job than even we could do!"

    April 23, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • sly

      Wow – you anti-abortion kooks really drink the cool-aide.

      No one cares about your dribble – humans are born to die, and if some don't get born it is not really that big a deal. Have you ever stepped on a line of ants? Some live, some die.

      Get over it ... your abortion issue is not a big deal. And stop pretending you really care about unborn babies while you do nothing nothin nothin at all to help feed starving Africans and Indians etc ...

      April 23, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • lol??

      Science has come a long way since you were a kid playin' with your ant colonies, SLY. You had clear plastic sides. Now the science toy manufacturers don't use clear plastic. They are using ultrasound toys for teaching moments with the ant colonies.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • WASP

      @lol: what part of "pro-choice" do you christian freaks not get? you don't have to agree with it because your opting to have tons of kids, live off the public programs we have and then complain about having to pay higher taxes to support your offspring.
      it's a choice just like everything else you have consquences for our actions. decide to have a child to term then your consquence is to rasie that child and work your whole life to provide for it, enduring sleepless nights and other stresses that come with growing children.
      if a person chooses to terminate the pregnancy then they have to deal with the emotional consquences of that choice; however having religious freaks outside the clinics making them feel even worse is so very christian of you folks. instead of loving the person and understanding their situation in life, you choose to accuse and belittle them when it is christians getting abortions. so your hate for people having the right to choose is being reflected back on your own kind......the religious.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • Akira

      How is an article about Muslims in Russia, and the mindset of the people there, a "federal foul up"?

      April 23, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • My Dog is a jealous Dog

      Have you ever seen pro-lifers outside abortion clinics offering to adopt? They are not interested in solutions, they are only interested in taking your freedoms.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
    • Akira

      I have asked that question before, and have always gotten "it's their sin! No way am I going to adopt their child spawned in sin!", or a similar response.
      Once out of the birth canal, not one of these people seem to care.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • o

      Let the child attend 1st grade before deciding to abort them. Explain why it's being done first.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Akira you know better. pro-life religions, the Catholic Church being the most prominent feed and clothe more people every single day than any government or other group on the planet and we have been doing it for 2000 years.

      April 23, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll....etc.
      What a lying piece of crap you are. Denmark, Sweden and Norway have the lowest % of the population that attend church. Oddly the countries with the lowest church attendance are also the world's largest per capita aid donors. Can you guess why, Billy? Because the church hierarchy are not siphoning the money off for their own use, much like the little muther Teresa, who used the cash to build her empire rather than help the suffering, hypocrite.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll....etc.
      What a lying piece of cr-ap you are. Denmark, Sweden and Norway have the lowest % of the population that attend church. Oddly the countries with the lowest church attendance are also the world's largest per capita aid donors. Can you guess why, Billy? Because the church hierarchy are not siphoning the money off for their own use, much like the little mother Teresa, who used the cash to build her empire rather than help the suffering, hypocrite.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • Science

      Well Billie keep doing it with out the fairy in the sky !


      April 23, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • Tony

      Bill, that is the same old religious twaddle that shysters like you always try to peddle:

      "Look look at all these nice things our religion did. Just ignore all the priests molesting kids and our murderous past and all that."

      It's a poor bargain. Shove off with selling your standard religio-script here. You've been caught, crude con man.

      April 23, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Bill, "... Catholic Church being the most prominent feed and clothe more people every single day than any government or other group on the planet and we have been doing it for 2000 years."

      Hmm they clearly could have done a lot more considering the wealth it has collected over the years – Vatican City alone costs a pretty penny to build and maintain without all of the other cathedrals and churches.

      April 23, 2013 at 6:48 pm |
  9. OwMySkull

    Fundamentalist Christians in the US frighten me more than any "radical Muslims."

    April 23, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • steelerguin

      Then you are a fool.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • Alias

      Fundamental christians are a bigger threat because of the number of them we have on the loose in this country.
      Pray to jesus trhat he will save us from his followers!

      April 23, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • Marcus Tridellas

      Nicely put. You quickly demonstrated your hipster-arrogant-liberal-biased-ignorant world view. Now off to other places to type "Faux News" with you.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
    • chuckt

      You scare me more than anyone because you think blowing people up is more right than trying to save someone. Hmmmmmm.... you sure your from America? Give me an example of a true Christian saying they are killing people in Jesus's name.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:21 pm |
    • Nate

      You're either trolling or you're an idiot

      April 23, 2013 at 2:57 pm |


      April 23, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
  10. sly

    Muslims, Christians, Jews all should be equally concerned about the extremist terrorist types.

    Anyone who ever kills for their personal opinions about a belief in some super-spirit is a bad person.

    The majority of religious people in this world are peaceful, just as the majority of people in this world are peaceful.

    April 23, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Big Shiz

      Just like Stalin,a atheist that killed millions.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • sly

      Yep ... human nature has lot's of good, but human nature is to kill others to obtain power. People with and without religion will kill. Issues like religious jihad, racism, and, as the US has shown, political/economic gain, give bad folks another excuse to kill.

      Anyone who thinks people of a particular religion are any more likely to kill demonstrate zero understanding of human nature.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:42 pm |
    • meifumado

      @ Big Shiz
      Stalin did not commit atrocities in the name of atheism, he did these things for political gains and such.

      History is there for all to see, It;s not nice to lie to people.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      big Lies
      Stalin did not kill BECAUSE he was an atheist.
      Christians and other religiously affiliated do.Like you brother in christ Hitler.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • Alias

      That's not what satan told me in a dream last night.
      Or I had too much to eat after midnight, I really can't tell the two apart.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • .

      Josef Stalin, (Joseph David Djugashvili) Djugashvili means "Jewison"

      April 23, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Communist leaders like Pol Pot and Stalin would not have been charismatic enough to gain converts had they not learned the discourse of dogmatic persuasion from religious inst/itutions.
      Pol Pot spent 8 years at a Catholic school in Phnom Penh and Stalin 5 years at a Russian orthodox seminary. Historians have noted their speaking and writing styles ape those of the Church in being 'declamatory and repet.itive, with liturgical overtones”.
      While they both sought to eliminate traditional religions from their kingdoms, they did so in order to divert the common man’s fervour to their own cults of personality.
      As Karl Marx himself noted “Atheism as a denial of this unreality; has no longer any meaning, for atheism is a denial of God and tries to assert through this negation the existence of man; but socialism as such no longer needs this mediation...”
      Hitler’s Third Reich, on the other hand, was no friend to atheists and encouraged religion in Germany. Having been exposed to religious methods of persuasion in school at a Benedictine cloister, Hitler recognized religion’s power to keep the people compliant.
      Instead of purging faith like the Communist regimes, he purged atheism:
      "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out".
      The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, Oxford University Press, 1942
      While Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot put themselves into the Godhead position, Hitler publically professed his Christianity until his dying day and used Christian arguments to whip his people into a frenzy. This is why Nazi uniform belt buckles were emblazoned with the slogan “Gott mit uns” (God is with us).
      Each of these leaders wielded their people’s predilection for faith like a weapon. Atheism is not the prime cause for these tragic regimes – the misdirection of faith is.
      Like religion, they demanded blind obedience and obsequious submission from their followers. They tolerated no free-thinkers and enforced dogmatism – a trick they learned from their religious educations.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
  11. Alias

    What really worries me is that if you asked the same questions to christians – especially in the south eastern USA – you would not find nearly as much concern. Radical christians are just as dangerous.
    On a related thought: what kinds of comments would the christians have posted if the mosques had been the ones systematically covering up child abuse.

    April 23, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      When one does not know the gender of the individual, it is perfectly acceptable.

      How far along are you ma'am?
      3 months
      do you know the $ex of your baby?
      No but IT is healthy.

      It is perfectly accepable

      April 23, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
  12. My Dog is a jealous Dog

    Reasonable people do not refer to other human beings as "IT". You can disagree and even taunt each other, but please have the civility not to de-humanize your antagonists. That is the root of all violence between men.

    April 23, 2013 at 12:19 pm |

      READ: http://www.vice.com/read/hey-atheists-just-shut-up-please

      April 23, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @All caps moron

      Read it. It's stupid, and commits multiple fallacies.

      April 23, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
  13. Lycidas

    It is funny when people take one of my handles and completely screws it up. Very rarely do I make an initial post but usually comment on other people's posts. Oh well.

    April 23, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Oh dear Lord almighty and the Count of Saint Baldrick, someone has stolen yet another of my handles. What ever shall I do to end the madness. I would be eternally grateful if Tom the belief blog internet detective would post a comment or two in hopes of frightening the internet handle troll thief SATAN away with its scalpel-sharp internet wit. If Tom would only take its real world frustrations and focus all of it here, as it usually does because life for it is miserable. Then we could all be safe from the Tyranny. Oh heavens.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • Lycidas

      Don't worry about. You want to achieve greatness and what better way than to use one of my handles. Please..continue.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "Don't worry about."

      Thank you for your scholarly advice. I'll keep this in mind for any future endeavors.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • FYI

      No doubt it would not have stopped you anyway.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
    • Alias

      When they take one of your handles?
      How many do you have??
      And do they talk to each othre inside your head too???

      April 23, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • A good show

      Handles are not important but what the people are saying. Quite a few on here are not saying anything important at all.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Lycidas would know that "tyranny" isn't capitalized. Fake.

      April 23, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
  14. Uncouth Swain

    CNN Belief Blog internet detectives believe they are a part of something, they believe that have actually accomplished a goal in life by calling someone on petty idocracy in the comment section of a blog that no one cares about. Talk about a lame, miserable existence.

    April 23, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • Korgis

      WTF are you talking about looney?

      April 23, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • The real Tom

      Fake. Thief. Lousy troll. Not even close to Lycidas's style. You really suck at this, Piddles.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • WASP

      @uncouth: "Talk about a lame, miserable existence."
      " internet detectives believe they are a part of something" "comment section of a blog that no one cares about."

      pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot. 🙂

      April 23, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • The real Tom

      Not Uncouth Swain. Evidently it's some idiot who never managed to complete freshman English.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • The real Tom

      And look, I made the troll disappear! I rule.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • Uncouth Swain

      And once again. Tom believes it has accomplished some world-shaking task. On the belief blog.

      I'd try to fake an applause, but I can't even muster the effort for such a lack of enthusiasm.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • palintwit

      Sarah Palin and her teabillies are the ones with a lame, miserable existence.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • OwMySkull

      I'd like to see a scan of the inside of your head. Like a fire drill at the county asylum.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
  15. Uncouth Swain

    Figures. I knew this guy didn't deserve to be elected.


    April 23, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • WASP


      April 23, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • The real Tom

      Fake Uncouth Swain, you aren't even a passable facsimile.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:11 am |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Your political bias is showing. Intolerance disgusts me.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:11 am |
    • Uncouth Swain

      How would anyone know who's real and fake here if they actually had a life? Sorry to dissapoint, but I am who I am.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • WASP

      @uncouth: " Intolerance disgusts me."
      "If these imbeciles followed Christ"

      appearantly either:
      1) you're disgusted at yourself for being intolerant
      2) or you're only disgusted when it is directed at your "imaginary god". 🙂

      April 23, 2013 at 11:20 am |
    • Science

      Well HS posted the same sh-it !

      April 23, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • Akira

      Since we're bringing up old POTUS, how about that cute 'lil Bush, who cannot step out of the United States for fear he will be arrested on that warrant for war crimes?

      April 23, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • Lycidas

      I doubt anyone would actually arrest Bush for anything outside of the country. Sure you might have some crackpots that would make a show of it but no govt agency would do it.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      This is from Bush's interview with Matt Lauer

      MATT LAUER: Why is waterboarding legal, in your opinion?
      GEORGE W. BUSH: Because the lawyers said it was legal, said it did not fall within the Anti-Torture Act. I’m not a lawyer. And — but you got to trust the judgment of people around you. And I do.
      MATT LAUER: You say it’s legal, and the lawyers told me.
      GEORGE W. BUSH: Yeah.
      MATT LAUER: Critics say that you got the Justice Department to give you the legal guidance and the legal memos that you wanted.
      GEORGE W. BUSH: Well —
      MATT LAUER: Tom Kean, who was the former Republican co-chair of the 9/11 Commission, said they got legal opinions they wanted from their own people.
      GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, he obviously doesn’t know. I hope Mr. Kean reads the book. That’s why I’ve written the book. He can — they can draw whatever conclusion they want.
      MATT LAUER: If it’s legal, President Bush, then if an American is taken into custody in a foreign country, not necessarily a uniformed American —
      GEORGE W. BUSH: Look, I’m not going to debate the issue, Matt. I really —
      MATT LAUER: I’m just asking. Would it be OK for a foreign country to waterboard an American citizen?
      GEORGE W. BUSH: It’s — all I ask is that people read the book. And they can reach the same conclusion if they would have made the same decision I made or not.
      MATT LAUER: You’d make the same decision again today?
      GEORGE W. BUSH: Yeah, I would.
      He likes to say that torture is not torture...he is a criminal

      How about invading a sovereign country under false pretenses. thousands killed for no valid reason.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • Akira

      Lycidas: perhaps, perhaps not.
      I don't, however, see Bush traveling outside of the US; maybe HE takes it seriously.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • Lycidas

      People usually need to be found guilty beyond the courtroom of your mind in this nation.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
  16. Uncouth Swain

    If these imbeciles followed Christ then we wouldn't have these problems. Jesus is the true way. They are lost without Him. Christianity is the true religion of peace. History has shown us this universal true. I will pray for them.

    April 23, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • Huebert

      If these imbeciles were atheist we wouldn't have this problem. You cant defend your faith with random acts of violence if you don't have a faith. History has shown this to be true. I will think for you.

      April 23, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • Uncouth Swain

      I'm sorry to inform you that Hitler and Stalin were atheists and because of their religion, they killed millions. Atheists are evil.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:02 am |
    • WASP

      @uncouth: so what makes your god so much better than their god? both are violent ego-maniacs.

      @hubert: if they had been atheist we wouldn't be having this conversation because the attack wouldn't have happened. if you look throughout history it's always been the religious that have been behind the majority of "terrorist" attacks.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • ME II

      @Uncouth Swain,
      "If these imbeciles followed Christ then we wouldn't have these problems."

      Similar thoughts were the begining of things like the Crusades and the Inquisitions.

      I'm sorry to inform you but Hitler was not an Atheist and Stalin committed his atrocities in the name of Communism.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • WASP

      @uncouth liar: please show everyone where you found that information because the last time i checked he had "god is with us" on his SS belts along with countless speaches with him saying he was doing "god's work".

      April 23, 2013 at 11:07 am |
    • The real Tom

      Not Uncouth Swain. Not even close. It's probably that idiot Mark the Piddler again.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Wrong as always Tom.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:14 am |
    • snopes says

      Uncouth Swain is false

      April 23, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • The real Tom

      I'm not wrong. The real Lycidas would know when to use commas. You really suck at this. Time to find someone illiterate to steal from, dearie. That's more your speed.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:23 am |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Gosh, Tom. I guess you REALLY figured this one out you savvy belief blog internet detective master you. Time to hop back in the old Mystery Machine and find yourself a life. I'm sure you've got a few good months left.

      April 23, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • OwMySkull

      Hey, Einstein. Ever hear of the CRUSADES?

      April 23, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • Manal Salem

      Wrong, Crusaders and the Natzi's were Christians.
      and wrong, Muslims do believe in Jesus but not as god or son of god

      April 23, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
  17. William Demuth

    I would recomend it

    The Russians will nuke Grozny in a heart beat.

    They have ALREADY leveled the place.

    April 23, 2013 at 10:46 am |
  18. Hummus is Delicious

    Perhaps they should just... you know, stop believing in that book of theirs? Then they don't have to worry about being ashamed of what their book demands of them? Just food for thought.

    April 23, 2013 at 10:21 am |
  19. Reality

    And the safe, easy and peaceful solution:

    From the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi----–

    The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

    ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

    Are you ready?

    Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

    The First Five of the 77 Branches:

    "1. Belief in Allah"

    aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.

    "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

    Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

    "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

    A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

    "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

    Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

    Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

    Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

    "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings
    be upon him) alone."

    Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

    Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

    Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

    Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..

    April 23, 2013 at 10:12 am |
    • OwMySkull

      Wow. You need a woman or a hobby pronto !!!

      April 23, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • Reality

      For those who are reading-challenged:

      Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!

      • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

      • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

      • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

      • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

      • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

      • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

      • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

      • A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.

      Added details available upon written request.

      April 23, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
  20. Reality

    И безопасного, мирного и простое решение:

    Из исследований Армстронг, Рушди, Хирси Али, Ричардсон и Байхакы ----–

    Пять шагов к депрограммировать 1400 лет исламской мифы:

    (-Выполнить действия, менее чем за две минуты до конца-просто удивительно, две минуты, чтобы принести мир и рациональность более одного миллиарда потерянных душ-Бесценный!)

    Вы готовы?

    Использование "77 филиалов исламских" вера "сборник, составленный Имамом Байхакы в качестве отправной точки. В ней он объясняет существенные достоинства, которые отражают истинную« веру »(иман) через коранические стихи связанных и пророческих высказываний". т.е. хорошее резюме Корана и исламских верований.

    Первые пять из 77 филиалов:

    "1. Вера в Аллаха"

    он же, как Бог, Яхве, Зевс, Яхве, мать-природа и т.д., должны быть добавлены к вашему самоочищения нейронов.

    "2. Верить, что все, кроме Аллаха, не существовало. После этого Всевышний Аллах создал эти вещи, и впоследствии они появились".

    Эволюция и Большого взрыва или «Gi-G-B наб" (когда Вселенная начинает переработку) более правдоподобно и "Akas" во имя Аллаха должны быть включены, если вы будете продолжать быть "Crea-tionist".

    "3. Верят в существование ангелов."

    Одним из основных пунктов для очищения нейрона. Ангелы / де-ВИЛС являются мифическими созданиями древних цивилизаций, например, Хет-ITES, чтобы объяснить / определить природные явления, контакты со своими богами, больших птиц, порывистых ветрах, протекторы в темные ночи, и т.д. Нет "довольно / UG-LY Wingy рюшечки" когда-либо посещал или разговаривал с Мухаммедом, Иисус, Мария или Иосифа или Джо Смит. Сегодня мы классифицировали бы как ангелы F-Airies и «олово-кег BE-LLS". Современные де-ВИЛС, классифицируются как де-Мон-де-из-mented.

    "4. Верить, что все небесные книги, которые были отправлены в различные пророки истинны. Однако, кроме Корана, все другие книги более не действительны".

    Другим важным элемент для удаления. Там нет книг, написанных в духе состояние неба (если оно есть) так же, как нет никаких ангелов, чтобы написать / публикации / распространять их. Коран, OT, NT и т.д. просто книги, написанные людьми для людей.

    Пророки были изобретены древними книжниками обычно держать ООН образованных масс в линию. Сегодня мы называем их для настройки счетчиков.

    Пророчества также аннулированию от естественной / Бог / Аллах дары свободной воли и будущее.

    "5. Верить, что все пророки истинны. Тем не менее, нам заповедано следовать Пророк Мухаммад (мир ему и благословение
    ему и благословение) в одиночку. "

    Мухаммед провел тридцать дней "постом" (легенда Рамадан) в горячей пещере до своего первого контакта с Богом ака Аллах и т.д. через "довольно Wingy штуковина". Здравый смысл требует удаления нейрона № 5. № 5 также является основным источником «быстрых, голод по инициативе" Исламский VI-olence т.е. поворот Мухаммеда галлюцинации в ужасных реальностью для неверующих.

    Прогулка эти пять шагов, и мы гарантируем полное восстановление от вашего исламского способами!!

    К сожалению, не так много мусульманских комментаторов / читателей на этом блоге так что "две минуты" лечение не становится тем, кто в ней нуждается. Если у вас есть друг-мусульманин, отправить его копию и помочь спасти мир.

    Аналогичные шаги на запрос для депрограммирования мифы христианство, иудаизм, буддизм, индуизм и язычество ..

    April 23, 2013 at 10:11 am |
    • Frank Czine

      Exactly what I was about to say.

      April 23, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
    • richunix

      Damn you Reality, you know I'm going to spend at leat the next hour translating this...LOL~ Good Job!

      April 23, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • Reality

      Google Translate will help you. It also ended the employment of over 10,000 translators.

      April 23, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.