home
RSS
Mormon Church 'satisfied' with Boy Scouts possibly lifting gay youth ban
The Boy Scouts of America has been considering a change in its longstanding policy against allowing openly gay members.
April 26th, 2013
08:20 AM ET

Mormon Church 'satisfied' with Boy Scouts possibly lifting gay youth ban

By Dan Merica, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='DanMericaCNN']

Washington (CNN) – The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said it was "satisfied" with the Boy Scouts of America’s move to consider no longer denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation.

In a statement Thursday, the Mormon church called the issue “complex and challenging” and said it believed the Boy Scouts were making “a thoughtful, good-faith effort” to address the issue.

“We are grateful to BSA for their careful consideration of these issues," the statement said. “We appreciate the positive things contained in this current proposal that will help build and strengthen the moral character and leadership skills of youth as we work together in the future.”

The Boy Scouts of America said last week it would consider a proposal that would no longer deny membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation but would maintain its ban on openly gay adult leaders. The organization's executive committee made the proposal.

"If approved, the resolution would mean that 'no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.' The BSA will maintain the current membership policy for all adults," Boy Scouts public relations director Deron Smith said.

The Boy Scouts proposal was anticipated after the group had punted on the issue in February. At the time, the Mormon church heralded the postponement, saying the organization had “acted wisely in delaying a vote on this policy issue until the implications can be more carefully evaluated.”

The Mormon Church has long been a supporter of the Boy Scouts, both in numbers and words. In 2011, Mormons represented 15% of the 2.7 million registered Boy Scouts, the single biggest group.

The church teaches that sex should be reserved only for a married man and woman, and congregants in violation of the church's teaching on sexual relationships can be excommunicated. Since gay people cannot be married in the church, any sex would be premarital and therefore sinful. Under these beliefs, members of the lesbian, gay and transgender community could be practicing Mormons as long as they are celibate.

Though the church’s doctrine condemning homosexuality has not changed in the last few years, and it remains opposed to same-sex marriage, some observers say the church is subtly but unmistakably growing friendlier toward the LGBT community, including voicing support for some gay rights.

Some activists pointed to the less public role in same-sex marriage ballot initiatives in 2012, a marked departure from earlier fights - such as California's Proposition 8 in which the church vocally supported the move to have same-sex marriage banned.

A statement in support of allowing gay children to join the Boy Scouts would be another step in that softening.

“The current BSA proposal constructively addresses a number of important issues that have been part of the ongoing dialogue including consistent standards for all BSA partners, recognition that Scouting exists to serve and benefit youth rather than Scout leaders, a single standard of moral purity for youth in the program, and a renewed emphasis for Scouts to honor their duty to God,” this week's Mormon statement continued.

The Boy Scouts' proposal is expected to be presented to voting members at the organization's May meeting in Dallas. If the policy is approved, it will take effect January 1.

- CNN’s Katia Hetter contributed to this report.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Belief • Mormonism • Politics • Sexuality

soundoff (1,554 Responses)
  1. alias

    @Bill
    1) I'm not sure 'paranioa' means what you think it means
    2) If Athiesm is a cult, can we stop paying taxes now?
    3) please tell me how you know you are worshipping the right god?

    Or is 3 too big a number for you?

    April 26, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Bill

      No worth my time, i have explained that a few times. Sorry for you if you don't have enough IQ to understand it.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      but my god is the right god! those thousands over there are wrong! lol.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      @Bill
      atheism is a cult? lol! talk about reaching. in what way?

      try using some cognitive thinking. try applying logic in any way to your religion. try applying logic to your life...

      April 26, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • alias

      Bill,
      If you were as smart as you think you are, you would know that IQ is a very poor way to measure intelligence.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • Bill

      @Alias

      You know hearing or seeing things that don't exist is also a form of paranoia. I haven't said or typed a single word about me calling myself smarter than anyone else. Did i said hey guys i'm smarter than you? I don't think i did. You should have a head check.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      yes, you did say you were smarter: "No worth my time, i have explained that a few times. Sorry for you if you don't have enough IQ to understand it."

      you are saying someone has a lower IQ than you, correct? that means you think you're smarter than them. you are saying they can't understand your very intelligent comments, correct? that's saying you are smarter than them.

      what a hypocrite. you insult someone's intelligence, then don't have the balls to stand up for what you said. instead you try to play innocent - "but i didn't insult anyone." typical christian pretending to be something he's not.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      by the way, what do atheists see that doesn't exist? name one.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • Bill

      @Bootyfunk

      Oh i can easily answer that, you atheists saw words i never typed lol. Because i never type the words "I am smarter than you" Don't deny this because you said i did type those words which i really haven't. Ain't that paranoia or not? lol

      April 26, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      no, you just typed the words 'your IQ is not as big as mine' - which translates to the same thing, no? be honest. and no, it's not paranoia. it's me pointing out you being dishonest.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Bill

      IQ = Smart? not really. You need to get educated.
      http://ask.yahoo.com/20031016.html

      April 26, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      you're being more and more dishonest, Bill. when you said someone had a lower IQ, what were you saying? try being honest. you were saying they aren't as smart as you. that's what that means. if you call someone a 'moron', no, technically you didn't say they aren't intelligent, but that's what it means, doesn't it? stop trying to play the innocent. you insult people and then cry about people insulting others. boohoo.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Bill

      I am not, i never compared his IQ with mine, all i've said was i'm sorry if your IQ was not enough to understand, which was a comparison to the average people. I never typed the words " your IQ is lower than mine" or " your IQ is not at the same level as mine". So which one do you suffer from? Paranoia or Schizophrenia?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      you typed: "Sorry for you if you don't have enough IQ to understand it."

      you are saying someone is not as smart as you. you are saying your IQ is higher, that you are smart enough to understand, but that his IQ is lower, not smart enough to understand. stop dancing around it. you are by far the most dishonest person on this board. what did you mean by that sentence? lol. what a liar.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Bill

      @Bootyfunk

      What part of no don't you understand?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      there's no part i don't understand. you called someone stupid and are pretending you didn't. you're dishonest and a liar. what did you mean by that sentence if not that the other person isn't smart?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Bill

      Ha ha ha ha, here you go again, now show me where i actually called "him" or "her" or typed the word "stupid" My gosh you really are mentally ill. Now i just called you something, lol

      April 26, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • mama k

      I go with liar. I think hawaii might be right about Bill being a poe. Some like to play like that on here. But they don't realize it might hurt the position they are uncomfortable about because whilst they are playing around, others read and can gain more education on a subject. Sometimes, at times like this, I like to come out with a really big post, like the one I do called "Over 40,000 denominations of insanity" and dedicate it to someone like Bill.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:49 pm |
    • Bill

      @Mama K

      Do you actually know exactly what you just wrote? You people are playing around, not me. I said what i wanted to say and that was clear enough for everyone to read, but you are trying to twist the words and run around in circle and it seems like you're trying to gain god only knows what.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      i think you're right, mama k.

      bill, what did you mean by someone's IQ is too low to understand what you wrote if not that they are stupid? he can't answer the question because the answer would be self-incriminating. lol.

      yep, mostly likely a troll. bravo, troll!

      April 26, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
  2. Bootyfunk

    "The Boy Scouts of America said last week it would consider a proposal that would no longer deny membership to youth on the basis of s.exual orientation but would maintain its ban on openly g.ay adult leaders"

    aww, that's nice, they are CONSIDERING not being prejudice.

    April 26, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
  3. Idolators on the loose

    Get lost ! Tools.

    April 26, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
  4. Kama sutra

    There is no taboo when it comes to sex.

    April 26, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
    • three-way

      Stop

      April 26, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Unless that taboo vibrates

      April 26, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      Every hindu secular, filthy self centered does it with his mother. sister and daughter, in following of a hindu filthy rapi ist of his sister as their god.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
  5. Colin

    Bill, here is a quick quiz that may help you understand why we atheists think you believers are the delusional ones.

    Q.1 The completely absurd theory that all 7,000,000,000 human beings on the planet are simultaneously being supervised 24 hours a day, every day of their lives by an immortal, invisible being for the purposes of reward or punishment in the “afterlife” comes from the religion of:

    (a) The ancient Celts;

    (b) Bronze Age Egyptians;

    (c) Pre-Colombian Aztecs; or

    (d) Modern Christians

    Q. 2 You are about 70% likely to believe the entire Universe began less than 10,000 years ago with only one man, one woman and a talking snake if you are:

    (a) a reptile handler who has severe mental issues;

    (b) a five year old boy who just read a fairytale;

    (c) a scientific fraud; or

    (d) a Christian

    Q. 3 I believe that an all-knowing being, powerful enough to create the entire cosmos and its billions of galaxies, watches me have $ex to make sure I don't do anything "naughty" like protect myself from disease with a condom. I am

    (a) A victim of child molestation

    (b) A r.ape victim trying to recover

    (c) A mental patient with paranoid delusions; or

    (d) A Christian

    Q.4 I have convinced myself that gay $ex is a choice and not genetic, but then have no explanation as to why only gay people have ho.mo$exual urges. I am

    (a) A gifted psychologist

    (b) A well respected geneticist

    (c) A highly educated sociologist; or

    (d) A Christian with the remarkable ability to ignore inconvenient facts.

    Q5. I honestly believe that, when I think silent thoughts like, “please god, help me pass my exam tomorrow,” some invisible being is reading my mind and will intervene and alter what would otherwise be the course of history in small ways to help me. I am

    (a) a delusional schizophrenic;

    (b) a naïve child, too young to know that that is silly

    (c) an ignorant farmer from Sudan who never had the benefit of even a fifth grade education; or

    (d) your average Christian

    Q6. Millions and millions of Catholics believe that bread and wine turns into the actual flesh and blood of a dead Jew from 2,000 years ago because:

    (a) there are obvious visible changes in the condiments after the Catholic priest does his hocus pocus;

    (b) tests have confirmed a divine presence in the bread and wine;

    (c) now and then their god shows up and confirms this story; or

    (d) their religious convictions tell them to blindly accept this completely fvcking absurd nonsense.

    Q.7 The only discipline known to often cause people to kill others they have never met and/or to commit suicide in its furtherance is:

    (a) Architecture;

    (b) Philosophy;

    (c) Archeology; or

    (d) Religion

    Q.8 What is it that most differentiates science and all other intellectual disciplines from Christianity:

    (a) Christianity tells people not only what they should believe, but what they MUST believe under threat of “burning in hell” or other of divine retribution, whereas science, economics, medicine etc. has no “sacred cows” in terms of doctrine and go where the evidence leads them;

    (b) Christianity can make a statement, such as “God is comprised of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit”, and be totally immune from experimentation and challenge, whereas science can only make factual assertions when supported by considerable evidence;

    (c) Science and the scientific method is universal and consistent all over the World whereas Christianity is regional and a person’s Christianity, no matter how deeply held, is clearly nothing more than geographical upbringing; or

    (d) All of the above.

    Q.9 If I am found wandering the streets flagellating myself, wading into a filth river, mutilating my child’s genitals or kneeling down in a church believing that a being is somehow reading my inner thoughts and prayers, I am likely driven by:

    (a) a deep psychiatric issue;

    (b) an irrational fear or phobia;

    (c) a severe mental degeneration caused by years of drug abuse; or

    (d) my religious belief.

    Q.10 Who am I? I don’t pay any taxes. I never have. Any money my organization earns is tax free at the federal, state and local level. Despite contributing nothing to society, but still enjoying all its benefits, I feel I have the right to tell others what to do. I am

    (a) A sleazy Wall Street banker

    (b) the mafia

    (c) A drug pusher; or

    (d) any given Christian church

    Q.11 What do the following authors all have in common – Jean Paul Sartre, Voltaire, Denis Diderot, Victor Hugo, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Immanuel Kant, David Hume, René Descartes, Francis Bacon, John Milton, John Locke, and Blaise Pascal:

    (a) They are among the most gifted writers the World has known;

    (b) They concentrated on opposing dogma and opening the human mind and spirit to the wonders of free thought and intellectual freedom;

    (c) They were intimidated by the Catholic Church and put on the Church’s list of prohibited authors; or

    (d) All of the above.

    Q.12 The AIDS epidemic will kill tens of millions in poor African and South American countries before we defeat it. Condoms are an effective way to curtail its spread. As the Pope still has significant influence over the less educated masses in these parts of the World, he has exercised this power by:

    (a) Using some of the Vatican’s incomprehensible wealth to educate these vulnerable people on health family planning and condom use;

    (b) Supporting government programs that distribute condoms to high risk groups;

    (c) Using its myriad of churches in these regions as “boots on the ground” to distribute condoms; or

    (d) Scaring people into NOT using condoms, based upon his disdainful and aloof view that it is better that a person die than go against the Vatican’s position on contraceptive use.

    Q.13 The statement “I believe in God because the Bible tells me to and the reason I follow the Bible is because it is the word of God” is:

    (a) Circular reasoning at its most obvious;

    (b) The reason 99% of Christians believe what they do;

    (c) Specific to the Judeo-Christian parts of the World and totally rejected by all other parts of the World; or

    (d) All of the above.

    Q.14 Probably the most fundamental tenet of Christian faith is that God sent his son Jesus to Earth to die and save us from the original sin of Adam and Eve. We now know that Adam and Eve was a myth. As such, any thinking Christian should:

    (a) Honestly and courageously question this and any other aspects of their faith that don’t make sense.

    (b) Make up some euphemistic nonsense like “well, we didn’t mean that literally” after having done exactly that for the last 1900 years until science comprehensively disproved it.

    (c) Just ignore the blatant contradiction and sweep it under the mat; or

    (d) Hold on to the myth because it makes them feel good.

    Q.15 Please choose your favorite Catholic superst.ition from those below. For the one you choose, please say why it is any more ridiculous than the rest of the garbage Catholics swallow and give an example of a non-Catholic belief which is just as stupid.

    (a) Grocery store bread and wine becomes the flesh and blood of a dead Jew from 2,000 years ago because a priest does some hocus pocus over it in church of a Sunday morning.

    (b) When I pray for something like “please god help me pass my exam tomorrow,” an invisible being reads my mind and intervenes to alter what would otherwise be the course of history in small ways to meet my request.

    (c) You can pray to a dead person for something. This dead person will then ask God to fulfill your wish. If this happens twice, this dead person becomes a saint.

    (d) A god impregnated a virgin with himself, so he could give birth to himself and then sacrifice himself to himself to negate an “original sin” of a couple we now know never existed.

    Q16. If you are worried that your children, who you love very much, will not believe something you tell them, such as "smoking is bad for you," would you:

    (a) have your family doctor explain to them the various ill effects of smoking;

    (b) show them a film produced by the National Insti.tute for Health on the topic;

    (c) set a good example for them by not smoking; or

    (d) refuse to give them any evidence of the ill effects of smoking, insist that they rely entirely on faith and then take them out into the backyard and burn them to death if you ever catch them smoking?

    And, as a bonus question, what would you think of an "all loving Father" who chose option (d)?

    April 26, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Bill

      @Colin

      I don't need your quiz, Atheism is a form of paranoia. I must include that atheism is also about being self centered.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • Colin

      Bill, you're the one who thinks some god is watching you every day of your lives, not me, that makes you the paranoid one doesn't it?. Second, you believe you are immortal and will live for ever in heaven – that makes you the self centered one, doesn't it?

      April 26, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Colin you spent a lot of time and energy creating a bunch of miss characterizations, veiled (and not so veiled) ad hominem attacks and skewed references. I think I can safely discount you as an intellectually honest contributor to the conversation at this point.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Bill

      @ Colin

      And you are also the one who feel persecuted by God and Religion. Which is also a form of paranoia.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Bill
      I'm afraid you're mistaken.
      Atheism is a negative statement that says only what one does NOT believe.
      It does not imply any behaviours, morals, or characteristics whatsoever.
      See, you can label the singer in a band an "ainstrumentalist" – but that only tells you what they DON'T do.
      The same is true of atheism. A = lack of. Theism = Belief in God.
      Some atheists are misantrhopes, some are paranoid, some are humanists, some are naturalists, etc.

      The fact is that that concepts such as ‘state’ and ‘society’ and ‘government’ have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals.
      It is impossible to shift, share, or distribute blame . . . as blame, guilt, responsibility etc. are matters taking place inside human beings singly and nowhere else. Therefore, we should be rational and realize that not everyone will share the same evaluations of good and evil. We must try to live perfectly in an imperfect world, aware that our efforts will be less than perfect while trying to remain undismayed by self knowledge of failure.

      We are selfish creatures by nature, yet our survival depends on cooperation. In order to balance these two conflicting instincts, mankind has had to develop rules that allow room for both.
      These rules are not the same for all communities – hence we've had so many different types of religion and government throughout history.
      Religion binds communities together by giving a common frame of reference. Shared fears (like divine retribution), hopes (like going to heaven) and rituals allow the instinct for self preservation to extend beyond one's self and immediate family.
      This is why the great majority of evolutionary biologists find no conflict between religion and science – as long as religion is recognized solely as a social adaptation

      April 26, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      @Bill
      if you're looking for an ethical system that is much superior to Christianity, try Humanism, an atheist philosophy. it's based on logic and compassion. no orders to kill anyone. and you don't have to believe in an invisible sky fairy to join. just have to think for yourself.

      Humanism > Christianity
      in every way

      April 26, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • William Demuth

      No, Christianity gets tax breaks
      Christianity $$ > humanist $

      April 26, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll...etc.
      Colin has original thoughts Billy. You have nothing to add but what is in the RCC dogma and catechism.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      demons would rather accept original thoughts even if they are wrong than embrace the tried and true philosophy that made the society which affords him the opportunity to condemn it. LOL he is only one iteration removed from the Boston bomber on government assistance.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll...etc.
      Billy, Billy taking a shot at me so un-christian. I am more like Mayor Koch of NYC who said if you take a shot at me you will get double back, I am not a christian. I know you can fvck up all of jesus' teachings and not even follow the catechism and simply go to confession and get cleansed, must be so comforting to you Billy boy. Try and be nice Billy, turn the other cheek or just be a hypocrite, either way is of no import to me.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Wasn't a shot just an observation. Must have hit a nerve too I see. Anyway you like to lay claim to the requirement for forgiveness but you reveal your ignorance even further. Forgiveness requires repentance. That means to turn away from your sin. You don't' want to turn away, you want license to continue. Therefore, forgiveness is unobtainable demon. Get used to that. It's going to be a long term condition for you.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll...etc.
      When and where did I lay claim to forgiveness? Sh1t Billy if you do the crime you do the time. Oh I may have sarcastically beg you to forgive me or offered to forgive you, but really. Now lets look back at how the RCC not only forgave the sins of their criminal pedophile priests but protected them from justice. Forgiveness requires repentance, now Billy you are lying again, so many priests found to be criminals forgiven by the Vatican and allowed to offend again, repentance my asz.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
  6. insightful pagan

    I wish they would treat these children as children and leave all questions of s.e.x out of the discussion.
    Unfortunately, there are jesus fearing religions involved and that will keep it from ever happening.

    April 26, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • alias

      What? You mean never teach them the right way to build a fire instead of the gay way?
      We must protect our children from this perversion! What would happen if suddenly they all swallowed a marshmallow that was roasted by a homersekual flame??

      April 26, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
  7. Bill

    Question for Atheists.

    I see those common names of people which are atheists on this board and i also saw then in another articles about Jesus being an Hipster and then on every religion subject. The question is: if atheism is all about being educated and all the BS that atheists are saying then why are you spending your precious time harassing people on every of the comment boards with your name calling and all? Don't seem very educated to me, more likely that you don't have a life other than doing this.

    April 26, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • William Demuth

      someone had to stand up to the Nazis, and someone has to stand up to people like you.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:26 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      What I love is that no matter what is said, we are still talking about Jesus.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • Jesus freaker

      In my opinion, most are former believers that feel a moral obligation to help others break free from the spell of religion.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Evangelical atheism?

      April 26, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • Alias

      @Bill

      Could you please tell me how you know you are worshippping the correct god?
      There are a lot to choose from, and i would really like someone to give an intelligent answer to that question.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Bill

      Well that means atheists are suffering from a form of paranoia in which atheists see God and Religion as Nazi and you feel like you are being persecuted by religious people.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Science

      Children need to be educated BILL

      April 26, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • William Demuth

      @Bill

      Wow. the way you twist the words in here I now understand how you can read the bible and think it means something.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Bill

      By who? By people who are suffering from paranoia? You are on the wrong track for educating children.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Colin

      Well Bill, the way I see it, a lot of people read this blog and the comments, so the more we can put the shere idiocy of religion on display, the more we can help individuals and society consign it to the dustbin of history.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Bill

      @William

      I don't twist words as much ore than you atheists loves to do. When confronted with the reality of your mental disease,you feel very embarrassed, don't you?

      April 26, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
    • Bill

      @Collin

      Same goes for religious people, i guess it's time for us to stop you right in your track before you take over.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Colin, I see a lot of accusations that Christians are idiots and admittedly some are not as adept at debate as others (same holds true for atheists, I think we all agree) And Christians will readily admit that to the world, the cross looks like foolishness. But to us it is victory and the fact that you rail against it does not diminish the power of it. Neither have you succeeded in dismantling the nor, in my opinion given a substantial imperative to convert to atheism ( I reject getting to do whatever I please as "freedom")

      April 26, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Colin

      Ah, but you can't Bill. The march of knowledge and enlightenment only goes in one direction. You can't "un-educate" somebody, Bill. Once a person is exposed to alternative ideas rather than blindly accepting what they are taught as children, there is no going back.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • Colin

      So Bill, waht is this "power of the cross" you are talking about? Because I am aware of nothing beneficial religion, including Christianity has ever done, other than give artificial comfort to not very smart people.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Bill

      @Colin

      You mean once a person is involved with the atheists cult that person can never go back. Because it is a cult just like any other one out there.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Science

      And laws of association makes it part of the devi'sl cults too ...........does it not BILL DEACON ?

      Glad you belong to that CULT..................I do not

      Peace

      April 26, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
    • Colin

      I don't even know what you are talking about, that atheism is a cult. Look, we don't believe we are immortal, that a being powerful enough to create the entire Universe supervises us 24/7/365 in order to reward or punish us in an afterlife or that this being reads our minds (or "hears our prayers" as you people call it) and alters history to help us (or "answers them" as you people call it.). That to us, is chhildish nonsense.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Dan

      cult: /kəlt/Noun 1.A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
      2.A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

      Atheists don't fit in either of those definitions, so unless you want to redefine the word "cult" then you are full of shlt.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Bill

      If you think that i am that Bill Deacon you just called me then you are completely of the track on this one.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • Bill

      @Dan

      Yes it is Dan, atheists is about people having alternative ideas. Therefor it is a form of belief as well as a cult.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Jim

      Atheists "practice" not believing in God like I "practice" not collecting stamps...

      April 26, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Ok

      "Neither have you succeeded in dismantling the nor, in my opinion given a substantial imperative to convert to atheism "

      That's ok since the more you post the more atheists can show the flaws in your logic. Atheism and the no religious affiliation are on the rise in the world because some people are getting the message.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Dan

      "atheists is about people having alternative ideas"

      So now you want to redefine the word "cult" and "atheist"?

      a·the·ist/ˈeɪθiɪst/ Show Spelled [ey-thee-ist] noun: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

      Atheist do not "believe" God doesn't exist, they disbelieve your claims of God existing. There is a difference.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Dan, by your definition, which I accept, Christianity could hardly be called a cult either since it neither a relatively small group nor are it's practices considered strange by most people.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Bill

      @Jim

      Stop trying to run around in circle. Atheism is all about having alternative ideas, it is a different form of belief. Believing in a God or believing in something else is still a form of belief. One not only have to believe in a deity to be necessarily a form of belief.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      OK, i think you should modify your statement. While some parts of the world are seeing a rise in "non-religious", "non-affiliated" and "atheist" segments, worldwide populations trends are increasingly religious. You find comfort amongst the company you keep but that does not mean your demographic is increasing. Mind you, I am not promoting an argument on popularity, as you did. I am merely telling you your information is wrong.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll...etc.
      Interesting that the RCC has to go and get a PR firm to start an advertising campaign to attract young adults, the brainwashing does not seem to be working all that well, is it Billy?

      April 26, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • Bill

      @TDD

      Typical atheist response.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • fred

      Every time a group of Christians show up for a local public prayer day (National Day of Prayer or otherwise such as Katrina, 911) the same small group of atheists show up with their Dawkins inspired anti God banners. That is a cult.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • Bill

      Exactly Fred, and i would add that they're the only group who does nothing to help the ones in need, they just stand behind their banners and look at others who are working hard to help those in needs. That's what atheism is all about. And they have the guts to call themselves educated, what kind of education are they getting when they see people in need and not doing anything to help.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • Dan

      dis·be·lief/ˌdɪsbɪˈlif/ noun 1. the inability or refusal to believe or to accept something as true.

      be·lief/bɪˈlif/ noun 1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat. 2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.

      Atheists hold disbelief in religious persons beliefs. That is all. If you are too ignorant to understand this maybe you need to go back to school or get a tutor to teach you the difference.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • Science

      Nice try FRED................the church/religion created the devil not humans.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • Bill

      I guess atheists people all want to receive medals but without having to work to earn them.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      Are you really putting forward that atheists aren't discriminated against?

      April 26, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Ted Jones

      I am trying to find the cult of people who do not believe in fairies.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      What I find interesting, you are questioning the "education" of atheists, yet the only responses you're giving is to continue with your bigoted rhetoric, making assertions without evidence to back it up, and completely ignoring reality.
      Actually that's pretty standard tactics for most Christians here. (see Chad, Bill Deacon, fred, HeavenSent, Topher, etc.)

      April 26, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • mama k

      Quite simple, Bill. I spend some of my retirement time here as a staunch advocate for separation of church and state.

      Not that I think you are really interested in any kind of answer, since you were obvious in presupposing:

      "if atheism is all about being educated and all the BS that atheists are saying".

      ( LOL – maybe the troll can entertain us by detailing "all the BS". )

      April 26, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • Bill

      Ok since you are coming back in force after being showed who you really are, then let me put it this way. What have you brought in this world that is about compassion and helping others? In which disasters have you showed up and actually did something to help others other than just bragging your anti-god banners? In which hospitals have you given cancer kids some type of monetary support and other kind of help? What did you do when there was a shootout in that school that end up having 20 children dead? I have many more questions but i guess i rather stop here because i have a feeling you will find it hard to even answer one one of them.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • mama k

      People from all walks of life, beliefs and non-belief do all kinds of great things for other people, Bill. You should know that. Now why don't you explain what "BS" is from your root post -answer that before you shit out any more BS-loaded non-questions.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • meifumado

      Do you have an issue with being critiqued?
      As for harassing people, you harassed me before and said I had no morals when all I did was ask an innocent question and ask for an example.
      Have I ever intentionally insulted you?
      I come here to learn a little about others and perhaps share my knowledge as well as getting a few good laughs here and there.
      Also just so you know I think it would be great if there was anything supernatural, so please prove it to me. I have no faith so please provide clear facts and evidence that can be confirmed.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • Bill

      Typical atheists answer. When they are confronted with realities they turn around insulting people or they just simply avoid to answer by asking questions instead. Not worth my precious time to argue with you anymore, I have said what i had to say and that is all i have to say about this. And i have proven many points about atheism. Over and out.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Is there just something about the name "Bill" that makes anyone using it a completely pathetic, bigoted pile of shit?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • mama k

      LOL – Ah and then "Bill" pretends he wasn't the one avoiding questions. Typical troll. What's frightening is that I really thought he might be much younger based on his childish comment in a nearby post below this one.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • meifumado

      And no response to me?
      Why did you not respond?
      You insulted me in a post below when I said nothing to you.Your a bad Christian Bill, even I can see that.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      No, Is there something about living in Hawaii that makes everyone a liberal pot head?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • fred

      As Christians we are to be a light into a dark world, we are to put others needs before ourselves and we are to serve not be served. Atheists are capable of loving their neighbor just as well as Christians and even for the right reasons. The difference would be in who or what gets the Glory. Christians are to be light to the Glory of God and thank God for all the blessings that pour out of our hearts and good works as we recognize such goodness comes from God. Atheists have nothing outside of the natural or observable to bow down and give praise and thanks for the goodness that flows from their works.
      Is there value in giving the Glory to God rather than giving glory to myself or nothing? I say yes because if nothing else or even if there is no God the daily habit of humble submission keeps our perspective in check.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll...etc.
      Well that is quite enough Billy bad boy, you have bad mouthed three or four people on this blog today, so un-Christian. Now drag out your beads and mumble a few hail Mary's and prostrate yourself and kiss a few feet as penance.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
  8. Sandusky Scouts

    Lets all bend over and repeat the BS pledge to the rainbow f ag, er flag.

    April 26, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • Akira

      Oh, my. Are you another one that doesn't know the difference between a gay person and a pedophile, or are you just passing the time by trolling?

      April 26, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • Bill

      Gays and pedophiles are both the same. There is not such a thing for having 3 to 4 types for describing heteros so why do have to accept there is 3 to 4 different types of gays. Lame excuses from gays that are trying to hide their real mental behaviors.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:02 pm |
    • Jesus Freaker

      Akira,

      They have probably been struggling with their own se xual orientation for years.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • Paul

      According to the super smart Bill a male pedophile who molests a young girl is the same as an adult male who has s.ex with another adult male, and some people say Christians are dumb.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • Bill

      Atheists at its best, obviously atheism is a form of mental disease just like being gay.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:07 pm |
    • Akira

      Pedophiles prey on children.
      Homosexuals do not.

      Both Pedophiles and child molesters are primarily heterosexual males. Active pedophilic behavior generally starts slowing down around age 35; the child molester generally continues his victimization until he is no longer physically able due to age, illness, injury, or incarceration.

      http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/pedophilia_and_molestation.htm

      April 26, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • Bill

      Paul since you need a drawing so you can explain, let me describe you what i was trying to say. There is male gender attracted pedophile which is h o m o s e x u a l i t y and then there is female gender attracted pedophile which is h e t e r o s e x u a l. In both case they sick in the head.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • Bill

      Sorry my mistake i mean Paul since you need a drawing so you can understand instead of explain.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:12 pm |
    • Paul

      I can't help it if you are not smart enough to say what you actually mean.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • Akira

      "form of mental disease just like being gay."

      The DSM-IV has no mention of homosexuality as being a mental disease. Probably because it isn't.

      Can you give me a citation from the field of medicine that says it is?

      April 26, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Bill
      "Atheists at its best, obviously atheism is a form of mental disease just like being gay."

      First, do you have any evidence to support either claim?
      Second, why do you think that believing the superstitions of Bronze Age goatherders over reproducible science is a sign of a healthy mind?

      April 26, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • Bill

      Paul you don't seem to know the difference between white and black.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • The Bible

      Being gay – Bad
      Selling your daughter as a se x slave – A OK

      April 26, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Bill

      Atheism is a form of paranoia. Atheists sees God and Religion as a form of persecution against them, same goes for gays paranoia toward heteros. It is a mental disease.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Tell the whole truth there bible –
      you have to sell her to the right kind of person and at a fair price.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Ted Jones

      Bill

      Atheism is a form of paranoia. Atheists sees God and Religion as a form of persecution against them, same goes for gays paranoia toward heteros. It is a mental disease.
      .
      And the Jews suffered from paranoia towards the Nazis.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Ted Jones

      Bill let me help you out
      .
      Hallucinations – the person has invisible friends who (s)he insists are real, and to whom (s)he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear
      these friends.

      Delusions – the patient believes that the invisible friends have magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, and will do so eventually if asked.

      Denial/Inability to learn – though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, the patients persist with the praying behaviour, each time expecting different results.

      Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality – the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

      Paranoia – the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan

      April 26, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • mama k

      "Atheists at its best, obviously atheism is a form of mental disease just like being gay."

      What grade are you in at school? Do your parents oversee your use of the computer?

      April 26, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
  9. Akira

    @Topher,
    "We’re talking about teens. They could very well be sinning. But there’s no flip-flopping … they won’t be rejected simply for having those feeling. The question is are they acting on those feelings or are they rejecting them."

    Most scouts start in the scouts as children and progress...from Cub Scouts to Boy Scout...where would one draw the line at when a scout may be expelled? Who decides that?

    April 26, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Obviously the Boy Scouts cannot be allowed to choose. Radical activism must be involved.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • Akira

      A rather snarky non-answer, Bill Deacon.
      The point: you can't. So put the burning torches down. The radical activism is present on both sides of the issue.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I think you made my point Akira.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Akira

      So then we should just keep gender preference out of it completely. Thanks for the affirmation.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      It does lead to the question though. Do you think adult straight males should be allowed to lead Girl scout troops? Or adult females to lead boy scouts? Is there any line that should not be crossed? What if the gay leader is 18 and the scout is 17? One is a minor and the other is an adult. Should they be allowed to have a consensual relationship? What if a 29 year old male falls in love with a 17 year old girl scout? That is technically pedophilia isn't it?

      April 26, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Oh, and I do not affirm your point. My point is that all groups should be allowed to make their own determinations on membership based on free association and not have their policies driven by politically motivated forces. If the Boy Scouts want gaays, I say let them have them. If they do not then they should be allowed to remain exclusive. It is no one's business but the membership's.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • Ben

      The Roman Catholic church is very experienced at implementing pedophilia and even supporting it with silence tantamount to tacit approval, up to recent times. Maybe you could ask some of their expert priests, the ones that aren't in jail yet. Ya, pedo might be more common outside the priesthood, but those priest guys should be utterly squeaky clean.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • The Demon Deacon

      Bill Deacon
      Is irrelevant. Billy is an obsequious papal apologist troll...etc.
      Well, Billy, where were all those questions about the pedophile scandals in the RCC? Did you not once state that you would be fine with a large % of priests being gay as long as they were celibate and not hitting on the young male laity? the story of Cardinal O'Brien comes to mind, okay if he is a hypocritical gay man as long as he is celibate, but woe betide the poor bugger if he is found out. Got to love the RCC, LOL.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Ben, are you saying you would accept higher rates of pedophilia in the Boy Scouts and public schools than you expect in the church? Because you may not know this but that is what you are doing at this very moment.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Yes, demon I think I can speak accurately when I say the Church has nothing against any person due to their orientation. What we oppose is disordered behavior. Some behavior is illegal such as pedophilia, some is sinful such as seex outside of marriage. Those are two different topics. You are the one who has convoluted them into thinking I've said the sin is greater than the illegal activity but your ignorance is so enormous and your hatred so rampant that I have not bothered to correct you until now.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Your ignorance is similar to people who think that gaays are pedophiles simply because they are gaay. Only you think priests are pedophiles simply because they are priests.

      I think Sara, who is no fan of the Church said it best. Pedophiles want children. They do not care what disguise they use to get to them.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • Ben

      Hey, Bill Deacon, nice sidestep try there. Good one, you sleazy eel, but we can reel you in no prob.

      Again, the point was, the Roman Catholic church is very experienced at implementing pedophilia and even supporting it with silence tantamount to tacit approval, up to recent times. Maybe you could ask some of their expert priests, the ones that aren't in jail yet. Ya, pedo might be more common outside the priesthood, but those priest guys should be utterly squeaky clean.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Ben, obviously you are late to this conversation so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps you have the data that shows the relative rates of pedophilia among large organizations and which groups are actively hurting more children. No one else has been willing to look at the U.S. Department of education report that shows the problem in U.S. schools is up to 100 times what it is in the Church. I understand your desire that priests be held to a higher standard than teachers, coaches, Scout leaders and uncles but the truth is that pedophiles infiltrate all strata of society, don't care who they use to find victims and some priests are as susceptible to that as anybody, only at a lower rate than most any other large group of people. When you continually excoriate the group which is doing the least damage, albeit getting the most press, you are giving tacit approval to the other more malignant population.

      So, again, got any numbers on the actual rates of cases in and out of the Church? If we're going to solve pedophilia we should start with the information shouldn't we? Or should we just hang all the preachers and pretend it will go way on it's own?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      And there goes Bill Deacon again with his consistent defending of the rampant cover-up and relocation of child molesting priests, pretending it's not a big deal if only he can post enough about other areas of society where they are by law required to report, unlike the church, which has a papal gag order that he says is "understandable".
      The immorality of Bill Deacon is evident in every post he puts out there.
      Pathetic.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Ben

      Bill the eel, read what I wrote until you finally get it. I won't tolerate your slimy ways. So, again, you sleazy, slippery eel, read on:

      Again, the point was, the Roman Catholic church is very experienced at implementing pedophilia and even supporting it with silence tantamount to tacit approval, up to recent times. Maybe you could ask some of their expert priests, the ones that aren't in jail yet. Ya, pedo might be more common outside the priesthood, but those priest guys should be utterly squeaky clean.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • Gary

      Ben and Akira, I know from his posts of the past that Bill Deacon is an utter greaseball. Nail him down, the bugger and don't let him squirm away.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      And of course, Deacon will now run away like a coward, as he always does once the subject of the papal order under John Paul II comes up. Poor pathetic little Deacon. So immoral and so self-righteous.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
  10. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    April 26, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • meifumado

      Like what?

      Examples please.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • Bill

      Like this!!!! Atheists have no morals.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:13 pm |
    • Akira

      Are you actively praying for atheists to have no morals, Bill?

      April 26, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Prayer does indeed change things – for the worse.

      The John Templeton Foundation funded a 10 year, $2.4 million dollar study involving 1,800 cardiac patients to measure the effectiveness of intecessory prayer.
      The patients were broken into three groups. Two were prayed for; the third was not. Half the patients who received the prayers were told that they were being prayed for; half were told that they might or might not receive prayers.
      Analyzing complications in the 30 days after the operations, the researchers found no differences between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not.
      Over the longer term, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.
      A 1997 study at the University of New Mexico, involving 40 alcoholics in rehabilitation, found that the men and women who knew they were being prayed for actually fared worse.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      April 26, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • Really?

      "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things"

      That's why the data, has shown that atheists have happier and healthier lives than conservative Christians. Your post is built on a lie!

      April 26, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
  11. WASP

    the boyscouts will allow gay children, yet not gay adults......hmmmmm this begs the question;
    what do they plan on having the striaght councilors or groupleaders teaching these gay children?
    my bet is they are planning on using multiple tactics to try and "re-educate" these children into denoucing how they were born.
    i would say this is a rather devious and well thoughtout strategy by the christians running this establishment.
    "get them while they're young" tactic would work and keeping gay councilors and group leaders out will free them of someone blowing a whistle on what they are planning.

    April 26, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • Science

      WASP .............how about the real issue evolution ?

      Surprising New Function for Small RNAs in Evolution.........time to pound sand maybe ?

      Apr. 19, 2013 — An international research team in including Christian Schlötterer and Alistair McGregor of the Vetmeduni Vienna has discovered a completely new mechanism by which evolution can change the appearance of an organism. The researchers found that the number of hairs on flies' legs varies according to the level of activity of a so-called microRNA.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130419075909.htm

      No god(s) needed !

      April 26, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • WASP

      Saraswati made a good point below which truly brings to light a new issue.

      "I'm not sure that being in an organization that would ban you as an adult is much of a blessing."

      what happens when these gay children grow up and are gay adults?
      ANSWER: they don't intend to allow them to "grow up gay"
      peer pressure on children every parent knows is a force to be reckened with.
      i think i just figured out what they are up to, those sneaky b______ds.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
  12. Reality

    Should we really care what a "religion"/business cult based on a visit from a mythical, horn-blowing, "gay?" angel has to say on any subject?

    Added details are available.

    April 26, 2013 at 11:55 am |
  13. Verde

    “The current BSA proposal constructively addresses a number of important issues that have been part of the ongoing dialogue including consistent standards for all BSA partners, recognition that Scouting exists to serve and benefit youth rather than Scout leaders, a single standard of moral purity for youth in the program, and a renewed emphasis for Scouts to honor their duty to God,” this week's Mormon statement continued.
    -No , you are not honoring God, you are honoring flesh .

    April 26, 2013 at 11:50 am |
  14. Honey Badger Don't Care!

    Topher,

    "When the NT talks about "the law" it is refering to the moral laws ... and when "Law" gets capitalized, it's specifically talking about the 10 Commandments."

    Which ten commandments?

    April 26, 2013 at 11:42 am |
  15. therealpeace2all

    Of course... allow gay scouts in, however gay adults are not.

    Nice *meta-message* being sent that reinforces the stereotypes that if you're a gay adult=pedophile.

    Great thinking!!! Geez.

    Peace...

    April 26, 2013 at 11:34 am |
  16. HotAirAce

    So, it's not ok to discriminate against non-adults but it's ok to discriminate against adults. A gay scout cannot become a gay scout leader. Fuck the Moron Cult. Topher too.

    This will all get very interesting when a senior mormon's son comes out of the closet and Topher has a gay son.

    April 26, 2013 at 10:46 am |
    • Apple Bush

      Topher would be an unfit parent and should have his child removed. My daughter is gay and I am thankful she got me and her mom and not an asshole like topher. She is absulutely perfect.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:10 am |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Ace

      Hope all is well, buddy.

      @Apple Bush

      How's it going -CS...? So, you ever gonna' make it down my way, or what ?

      Peace...

      April 26, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • HotAirAce

      @Peace, can't complain, except about the usual delusionals. . . Hope all is well with you.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
  17. symphonyofdissent

    Reblogged this on Symphonyofdissent and commented:
    I really like the Boy Scout's decision 🙂 It is very reasonable and will bless the lives of gay youth.

    April 26, 2013 at 10:46 am |
    • Saraswati

      I'm not sure that being in an organization that would ban you as an adult is much of a blessing.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:55 am |
    • WASP

      @Saraswati
      I'm not sure that being in an organization that would ban you as an adult is much of a blessing."

      that actually blends in with my above statement and brings up a new question.
      what happens to these gay children when they become adults in the scouts?

      April 26, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      wasp, under the current proposal they will have to leave. This shows how ridiculous the proposal is. As soon as someone tries to get a beloved gaay leader ousted, there will be an outpouring of support and we will be right back where we are now, trying to deal with the same issue.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Two-fer

      "we will be right back where we are now, trying to deal with the same issue."

      Yup, until ignorant bigotry is completely done away with we will keep going back to the drawing board. Much like the private golf courses that still do not allow black members, they will keep the right to discriminate but public opinion will judge them and they will eventually die out for lack of new bigoted members.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I think I could live with that. I'll make my choices and accept the consequences. You make yours and do the same.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
  18. Doc Vestibule

    Here in Canada, it isn't even an issue.
    Scouts Canada's official position is:
    "Scouting is a world wide, multi cultural movement. We welcome people to membership regardless of gender, race, culture, religious belief, se.xual orientation or economic circu.mstances."
    Troop 129 in Toronto is comprised entirely of gay and lesbian youth.

    April 26, 2013 at 9:50 am |
    • Topher

      How is Jamboree handled there? Kids of all orientations still mixed together?

      April 26, 2013 at 10:00 am |
    • William Demuth

      Doc

      While I agree with your goal, we can't deny the debacle that occurred in the RCC.

      While I do NOT have an answer if orientation is linked to child assault, I do believe we should be erring on the side of caution when it comes to children.

      Perhaps some real research might help, but few on either side seem to want that, because one on the two would lose and the fight would be over.

      Exactly what threshold would need to exist is unclear, but if a link can be established we have a moral obligation to act. Are certain groups more likely to molest, and if so how much more likely?

      It involves gut wrenching questions that are going to damage one group or the other quite badly, but the question is of greater import than either because of the errors our society has ALREADY made in letting predators get to our children

      April 26, 2013 at 10:09 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @William
      Studies have been done.

      Child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as hom.ose.xuals, heterose.xuals, or bise.xuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their se.xual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.
      Perpetrators with a more or less exclusive interest in children are labeled fixated. Fixation means "a temporary or permanent arrestment of psychological maturation resulting from unresolved formative issues which persist and underlie the organization of subsequent phases of development".
      By contrast, other molesters are described as regressed. Regression is "a temporary or permanent appearance of primitive behavior after more mature forms of expression had been attained, regardless of whether the immature behavior was actually manifested earlier in the individual's development".

      Doctors Groth and Birnbaum studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of se.xual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively ho.mos.exual adult se.xual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterose.xuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bise.xuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in s.ex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily se.xually attracted to other adult males..."

      April 26, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • William Demuth

      I just asked a girl scout troop leader if men were allowed to be GIRL SCOUT troop leaders, and she said she was unaware of any in Norther New Jersey.

      She also expressed the logical fear of them being involved with the girls.

      Why can the girl scouts speak of a legitimate fear, but expressing the same fear of predatory men harming boys is somehow forbidden?

      April 26, 2013 at 10:14 am |
    • Ken

      William
      What makes you think that all gays are also child abusers? Surely you've heard of straight men who have abused underaged girls, for example? It may not be as sensational as what happened in the RCC, but it could be argued that it's far more common for straight adults to abuse opposite se x children, yes?

      April 26, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @William
      Scouting in Canada is co-ed.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • William Demuth

      Doc.

      Again, I don't have the data, but I suspect you smell an agenda in that as clearly as I do.

      If that logic was correct, Priests would have assaulted girls in far greater numbers, and boys if far lesser numbers.

      All predators have a prefered target, and I suspect are merely expressing an orientation they supress in the adult world due to social pressures.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:17 am |
    • William Demuth

      Ken

      That is the cruxt of the question isn't it.

      What determines their selection?

      To claim orientation is not a factor is to be willingly blind.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Topher: Yes but those same kids inter-mingle on the schoolyard...did you want to start segregating them also? Discrimination based on sexual orientation is very much frowned upon here and our laws deal with it accordingly. Children go through enough growing up without being bullied by uninformed peers and in some case adults, about something that is completely out of their control. If it were your child being excluded how would you feel? How would you feel if your child turned to you and say they were gay? Would you still love them and accept the reality of the situation or would you disown them?

      April 26, 2013 at 10:20 am |
    • William Demuth

      Doc Vestibule

      It is in some ways here. Boys often get dragged to Girl Scouts with their sisters

      They call them "Tag Alongs" which is where the name of the cookie comes from!!

      April 26, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      The scouts aren't actually considering letting gays be scout leaders, they are considering allowing gay CHILDREN to be scout members. The pedophilia argument really doesn't apply here at all (aside from the fact that most pedos identify as straight)

      April 26, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • William Demuth

      Cows

      You are not up on the details..

      They will let in gay kids, but intend to ban gay adults.

      I am fine with gay kids being in, I am only concerned about predators

      Frankly, if they had mothers running the dens, AS WELL as fathers (one each from different families) I would be at much greater ease.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @William
      Would you consider beastiophiles hetero or ho.mo?
      Again, neither label properly applies as such people are fixated on animals, not gender.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      William- yeah, that's what I said.

      There are plenty of prior instances of scouts being preyed upon by "straight" male scout leaders. Gay- straight- doesn't really matter, anyone can be a predator. Being gay does NOT make someone more likely to be one.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • William Demuth

      Doc Vestibule

      I suppose the gender of the beast isn't relevant?

      Without being graphic, if a person prefers one port of call to another on every trip he takes, one can draw conclussions.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • William Demuth

      Cows, you cant see the forest.

      They are molesting boys, they are gay. They are molesting girls they are straight. It isn't exactly rocket science.

      The Scouts are EXACTLY where a closeted individual can fill his needs while maintaining a facade

      April 26, 2013 at 10:31 am |
    • Ken

      William Demuth
      Parents have just as much reason to worry about their sons being abused by their female elem entary teachers, or their daughters being abused by their male youth ministers. A child abuser could be any adult left in charge of your children. It could be your babysit ter, your sister, your neighbors. What is the solution then; never trust your children with anyone else? People who do that end up coming under sus picion of child abuse themselves.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:34 am |
    • William Demuth

      Cows

      You claim :Being gay does NOT make someone more likely to be one.:

      I remember the same indignation in the 70's when people started questioning priests.

      I hope you are correct, and think it warrants a real inquiry (Department of Health, maybe AG) to confirm the belief you have is accurate.

      Our kids deserve us to be vigilant

      April 26, 2013 at 10:34 am |
    • Akira

      Pedophiles prey on children.
      Homosexuals do not.

      Both Pedophiles and child molesters are primarily heterosexual males. Active pedophilic behavior generally starts slowing down around age 35; the child molester generally continues his victimization until he is no longer physically able due to age, illness, injury, or incarceration.

      http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/pedophilia_and_molestation.htm

      April 26, 2013 at 10:41 am |
    • William Demuth

      Ken

      If that was true why does the RCC scandal CLEARLY indicate a male on male predominance?

      And as for female teachers, I had relations with TWO of mine, so you are correct. At the time I percieved myself as the aggressor, but now I know better. I still ain't complaining!!

      April 26, 2013 at 10:44 am |
    • Ken

      William Demuth
      Back before all this hit the fan only boys could serve on alter. I grew up Catholic. The priests took on the role of male role models for boys and the nuns were the girl's. There simply was far more access to boys for priests and, let's face it, boys are much more easily silenced by this, what with all the shame levied against gays in our society. Girls get pregnant, their loss of virginity tends to get noticed more, and they aren't as easily bullied into keeping quiet.

      If you ain't complaining about your encounters with female teachers then you really shouldn't get upset if your daughters ever hook up with their high school male teachers, right? Girls are supposed to be more mature than boys, after all, and heaven knows that they can be se xually aggressive. No culpability then for adults having se x with underaged teens then, I suppose?

      By in large, don't I think it's the openly gay people you have to worry about. The people who appear to be just straight old family people are the ones who blend in, and are under everyone's radar. Those are the ones who always seem to end up being the child molesters, right? The people you least suspect?

      April 26, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Ken,

      "By in large, don't I think it's the openly gay people you have to worry about. The people who appear to be just straight old family people are the ones who blend in, and are under everyone's radar. "

      Exactly. Pedophiles want kids and they will hide out using the best camoflage they can. More often than not we see these guys as a men posing as attracted to adult women...often married to them. Most pedophiles don't care what their disguise is, they are after the kids. very few are just opportunists who just can't get se.x from adults...but for what should be obvious reasons those are more likely to be straight guys than gay.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • Alias

      Wliiam Demuth
      You can't figure out the difference between soldiers and terrorists. I'm not the least bit surprised that you can't see the difference between gay and ped ophile.

      Moron you are.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Most pedophiles don't care what their disguise is, they are after the kids

      Thank you for that Sara. I may remind you of it later.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
  19. Topher

    Ridiculous solution.

    April 26, 2013 at 9:29 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      What do you believe to be the ideal solution?

      April 26, 2013 at 9:38 am |
    • Topher

      No one living in sin allowed.

      April 26, 2013 at 9:41 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care!

      Topher,

      According to your own big book of multiple choice you are supposed to put them to death. That is the only solution allowed in there.

      "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

      April 26, 2013 at 9:48 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Should step-parents be banned from scouting?

      April 26, 2013 at 9:51 am |
    • Topher

      Doc

      Not all step-parents are living in sin. Is that what you are getting at?

      April 26, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care!

      Not going to answer Topher? Typical cafeteria christian.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:03 am |
    • Topher

      Honey Badger Don't Care!

      Old covenant, dude.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      We're talking about children here- how do you figure they are "living in sin"- even if sin were real?

      They should be excluded simply for having those feelings? I thought it was the ACTIONS that mattered? Flip flop much?

      April 26, 2013 at 10:11 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Divorced Christians who re–marry are living in sin.
      “Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery” (Matthew 19:9; see also Matthew 5:31, 32).

      They should therefore be banned from Scouting in your world, right?

      April 26, 2013 at 10:11 am |
    • paul

      Topher, one of the main themes of the bible is that humans are born into sin, so should we not just disband the boy scouts all together, or do you really just mean no gay people allowed?

      April 26, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      "No-one living in sin allowed."

      What sin?

      Btw: Do you follow the 10 Commandments??? They are after-all old covenant and given that the words in Leviticus do not apply, then the ten commandments should not either!

      April 26, 2013 at 10:15 am |
    • Topher

      WhenCowsAttack

      We're talking about teens. They could very well be sinning. But there's no flip-flopping ... they won't be rejected simply for having those feeling. The question is are they acting on those feelings or are they rejecting them.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:16 am |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      And how, exactly, do you plan to determine whether or not they're "living in sin"?

      I nominate you to sniff all of their taints to check for residual man-juices.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • HeavenSent

      All unrighteousness is sin; and all reigning sin, nay, every actual sin committed deliberately, and not repented of, shuts out of the kingdom of heaven.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:19 am |
    • sam stone

      topher: no one "living in sin" allowed?

      thanks for the entertainment

      April 26, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      I know the passage. But still not everyone meets that standard. As it says, there are Biblical reasons for divorce.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • Ken

      Topher
      "No one living in sin allowed."
      Better start working against no fault divorces then. Jesus had plenty to say about those being the same as adultery. Enough living in sin there to satisfy religious zealots' need to be all judgmental, eh?

      April 26, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • Topher

      Truth Prevails 🙂

      "Do you follow the 10 Commandments??? They are after-all old covenant and given that the words in Leviticus do not apply, then the ten commandments should not either!"

      Of course I do. The 10 Commandments are part of the moral law which was carried over into the New Covenant.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:24 am |
    • sam stone

      gopher reminds me of the church lady from the old saturday night live

      "could it be SATAN?????"

      gopher, get back on your knees and beg to your vindictive pr1ck god. fvcking sycophant

      April 26, 2013 at 10:27 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care!

      TP,

      Just what I was saying, cafeteria christian. They pick and choose out of their big book of multiple choice and only follow the "good parts".

      April 26, 2013 at 10:29 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      The Bible is pretty clear.
      If you divorce your spouse, you may not re-marry or else you're committing adultery.

      What about couple where the parents are of different religions?
      What if Dad is a Catholic and Mom is Jewish?
      Even if they have the child baptized, the kid would still be Jewish.

      A Christian marrying a non-christian is living in Sin.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:33 am |
    • sam stone

      honey badger: it must be tough reconciling that his savior is a vindictive punk

      April 26, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      "What if Dad is a Catholic and Mom is Jewish? Even if they have the child baptized, the kid would still be Jewish."

      Why would he still be Jewish?

      "A Christian marrying a non-christian is living in Sin."

      I agree the Bible says that's a bad idea. It's called being unequally yolked. But does it say it's a sin?

      April 26, 2013 at 10:41 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care!

      Wrong on so many counts Topher.

      Xtians are supposed to kiII non-xtians.

      Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

      They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

      Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

      April 26, 2013 at 10:48 am |
    • Topher

      Old covenant.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • Saraswati

      The biggest problem for the boy scouts is that they never made their argument based on safety but on some archaic religiously based inherent lack of morality ...a pool into which they also lumped atheists. If it were just a safety issue they'd have to face up to the fact that pedophiles no matter their particular tastes normally hide out in adult het.erose.xual relationships and start looking at what you really need to do to protect kids. We would have seen some restrictions, maybe, on who could share a tent and additional female staff but not the kind of idiotic "gays are immoral" statements they were spewing.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:54 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Honey Badger, To be fair, most Christians think that while god once sanctioned those things he changed hist mind a couple of thousand years ago.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Topher

      Saraswati

      It's not that He changed His mind, it's that we broke the old covenant with Him so He gave us a new one that we can't break.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:03 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Saraswati
      That is odd since Jesus rather explicitly said that the old laws still apply.
      "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets; Acts 24:14

      April 26, 2013 at 11:06 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Topher, tomato, tomahto. Changed his mind because...

      And if he didn't "change his mind" he's even a bit sicker. It would at least be nice to think this got either realized his weird old rules were bad or thought they no longer served a purpose. But just to be doing it based on a broken covenent doesn't say much for the guy. I don't know...if I ever throw my hat in with a god it'll be one of the nicer gods your guy was worried about us worshipping.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:09 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Doc, just pointing out what they believe, not whether the various conflicting bits of the bible support it.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:11 am |
    • sam stone

      by jewish tradition, a child born to a jewish mother is jewish

      April 26, 2013 at 11:12 am |
    • Topher

      Saraswati

      Fair enough. That's your choice. Of course I'd contend that those gods don't exist.

      And those "death" laws only applied to the Jews ... part of the whole "those people at that time" rules we know didn't continue into the New Covenant.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:13 am |
    • Al

      It's really tiresome watching Christians defend what is perhaps the most immoral book ever written.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • Saraswati

      Of course you would, Topher, except that that means your god was hallucinating a bit every one of the many, many times he refered to multiple gods.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • sam stone

      "Of course I'd contend that those gods don't exist."

      and we contend that yours does not either

      April 26, 2013 at 11:18 am |
    • Rupert

      @Topher
      Of course I'd contend that those gods don't exist.

      Why is it so easy for you to reject other gods, but have no problem with the one you were indoctrinated to believe in?

      April 26, 2013 at 11:24 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Doesn't the passage from Acts I quote above not indicate that Jesus did NOT invalidate the laws of the Old Testament?

      April 26, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • Topher

      Saraswati

      "Of course you would, Topher, except that that means your god was hallucinating a bit every one of the many, many times he refered to multiple gods."

      Which verse are you refering to? Because I'd bet what He was saying is that people worshipped something other than Him, not that He is saying there are other gods.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • Topher

      Rupert

      "Why is it so easy for you to reject other gods, but have no problem with the one you were indoctrinated to believe in?"

      Simple answer: It's the only one that makes sense and has answers.

      Deeper answer: It is the only "religion" that deals with the sin problem ... which I acknowledged before I was a Christian.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • Science

      Topher.......can you read yet ? ...............the bible does not work !

      Surprising New Function for Small RNAs in Evolution.........time to quite playing in the sand box ?

      Apr. 19, 2013 — An international research team in including Christian Schlötterer and Alistair McGregor of the Vetmeduni Vienna has discovered a completely new mechanism by which evolution can change the appearance of an organism. The researchers found that the number of hairs on flies' legs varies according to the level of activity of a so-called microRNA.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130419075909.htm

      April 26, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Topher: There is a reason that book you hold so dearly is sometimes referred to the 'Giant Book of Multiple Choice"...you really do pick and choose what you want to take from it.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      "Doesn't the passage from Acts I quote above not indicate that Jesus did NOT invalidate the laws of the Old Testament?"

      When the NT talks about "the law" it is refering to the moral laws ... and when "Law" gets capitalized, it's specifically talking about the 10 Commandments.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:35 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care!

      Topher,
      “It is the only "religion" that deals with the sin problem”

      Christianity MAKES the problem of sin. Then it tries to sell you the antidote. What don’t you understand about how dishonestly evil that is? You corrupt minds and frighten people into believing your fairy tales. Fat and stupid is no way to go through life.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:41 am |
    • WASP

      @CHRIS-topher: " and when "Law" gets capitalized, it's specifically talking about the 10 Commandments."

      and where pretail did you learn that? where in the bible does it say big L aw means commandments, yet little l aw means everything else?

      your logic is failing again chris. 🙂

      April 26, 2013 at 11:41 am |
    • Rupert

      @Toper
      In order for it to make any sense you have to ignore so much of it no longer has the same meaning. It is ambiguous and contradictory enough to have an infinite number of answers to an infinite number of readers? How seriously did you study this, and other religions to come to the conclusions you have about them all?

      April 26, 2013 at 11:42 am |
    • WASP

      @CHRIS-topher: "Which verse are you refering to? Because I'd bet what He was saying is that people worshipped something other than Him, not that He is saying there are other gods."

      genesis 1:26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
      ten commandments:
      1.You must not have any other god but me.

      i think these will serfice to explain that "god" should be GODS.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • Topher

      WASP

      "genesis 1:26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:"

      That "us" and "our" is a reference to the Trinity.

      "1.You must not have any other god but me."

      Two things. Don't worship anything but God. And anything that you make more important that Him becomes "your God."

      April 26, 2013 at 11:52 am |
    • Topher

      WASP

      "and where pretail did you learn that? where in the bible does it say big L aw means commandments, yet little l aw means everything else? "

      Hermaneutics

      April 26, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • Rupert

      @Topher
      That "us" and "our" is a reference to the Trinity.

      Where can I find the trinity in the bible?

      April 26, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care!

      Topher,

      There was no doctrine of the trinity, or any trinity for that matter, until after the council of Nicea in 325CE.

      Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Topher

      Rupert

      "Where can I find the trinity in the bible?"

      Matthew 28 is one of MANY instances.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • John H. Travis

      Topher, if the bible doesn't mention the trinity then it is just made up.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • Rupert

      @Topher
      I don’t see trinity anywhere in Matthew 28. Can you point it out please?

      You’re forgetting that was no jesus around in genesis 1:26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:, so how could the verse refer to the trinity?

      April 26, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • WASP

      @CHRIS-topher: more on where god is plural about other gods.

      Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14).

      if three is one and one is three then your god has multiple personality disorder. XD

      April 26, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • Topher

      John H. Travis

      "Topher, if the bible doesn't mention the trinity then it is just made up."

      The word "Trinity" doesn't appear, but that doesn't mean the Bible doesn't teach it. The Trinity became an official doctrine in the 300s because of the modalism heresy that was starting to spread. Just as the word "dinosaur" doesn't appear, the Bible does talk about it. It's just that the word "dinosaur" didn't exist yet.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • WASP

      @CHRIS-topher: "hermeneutics
      Biblical hermeneutics is the study of the principles of interpretation concerning the books of the Bible. It is part of the broader field of hermeneutics which involves the study of principles for the text and includes all forms of communication: verbal and nonverbal."

      see where you fail there is you're being taught to "interpret" the bible by people that are interpreting the bible how they deem fit.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:22 pm |
    • Topher

      Rupert

      " I don’t see trinity anywhere in Matthew 28. Can you point it out please?"

      "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," ... 28:19

      "You’re forgetting that was no jesus around in genesis 1:26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:, so how could the verse refer to the trinity?"

      It's not that I forgot it, it's that you're mistaken. Christ has always existed. He just wasn't born into a human body yet. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God. That's the Trinity. "In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God." The "Word" is referring to Christ, or The Son.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
    • Topher

      WASP

      "see where you fail there is you're being taught to "interpret" the bible by people that are interpreting the bible how they deem fit."

      I'd agree with you if the Hermaneutics professor was Joel Osteen ... but that's why you have to make sure you stick to a historical interpretation .. or learn Biblical discernment.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • Rupert

      @Topher
      The "Word" is referring to Christ, or The Son.

      According to your interpretation, it is. Do you have any verses that directly support that view, without the need to be interpreted?

      April 26, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care!

      Topher,

      You really show how dishonest and idiotic that the average xtian is. All you can do is play follow the leader.

      Why dont you try thinking for yourself for once in your life? Probably because you dont know how.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Topher

      Rupert

      "According to your interpretation, it is. Do you have any verses that directly support that view, without the need to be interpreted?"

      According to the early church fathers and all Christians since. Tell me who you think those verses are talking about then.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • Topher

      Honey Badger Don't Care!

      "Why dont you try thinking for yourself for once in your life? Probably because you dont know how."

      Which verse would you like me to reinterpret?

      April 26, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Two-fer

      Fact: The bible got the flood wrong, got Adam and Eve wrong, condoned slavery and the killing of disobedient children for hundreds of years until the God that gave those laws apparently decided to change them.

      No interpretation will ever get past those basic facts about the bible, and no amount of mental gymnastics will ever change the truth about our universe to fit your preconcieved wish for a magic "genie in a bible" that listens to you and does magic on your behalf if you wish hard enough.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:56 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      There are hundreds of translations of the Bible and they don't all distinguish between big L and little l.
      But I'm going to guess that you're sure your version of the Bible is the really, truly, inerrant one.

      April 26, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
    • Paul

      Topher please explain why we should not disband the boy scouts since every human on the face of the Earth is born into sin according to the bible, or admit that you are only concerned with gay people because they make you uncomfortable.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      " There are hundreds of translations of the Bible and they don't all distinguish between big L and little l.
      But I'm going to guess that you're sure your version of the Bible is the really, truly, inerrant one."

      I have no idea how many translations there are. And in this day and age, if you end up with a bad one, that's your fault. But in the end it doesn't matter ... when the NT mentions "the law" (whether with an 'l' or "L") it is refering to the moral law. That includes the 10 Commandments.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • Topher

      Paul

      True, every person is born in sin ... but there's a difference in those that repent and are sorrowful of it, and those that glorify in it. I wouldn't want my children running around with anyone like that whether it's lying or stealing or adultery or anything else.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
    • Rupert

      @Topher
      According to the early church fathers and all Christians since.
      Don’t you see that’s the problem? The concept of the trinity came after, and is not supported by any verses without performing mental gymnastics. Surely an all-powerful deity could have made mention of such an important concept, don’t you think?

      Tell me who you think those verses are talking about then.
      They could be talking about three of the seven dwarfs. For all intents and purposes they’re the same thing.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Like every other Jew, Jesus' holy books would be put into 3 categories:
      1)The Law (Torah) – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy
      2)The Prophets (Neviim) – Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, the 12 Minor Prophets
      3) The Writings (Kethubim) – Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Ruth, Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes, Lamentations, Esther, Daniel, Ezra and Nehemiah, Chronicles

      The Capitalization of "Law" is becuase it is used a proper noun, identifying the Tora.

      "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets"
      – Acts 24:14

      Jesus is very specifically saying that He believes in and serves EVERYTHING that is in the Torah – including all the ridiculous rules in Leviticus.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
    • Topher

      Rupert

      " Don’t you see that’s the problem? The concept of the trinity came after, and is not supported by any verses without performing mental gymnastics. Surely an all-powerful deity could have made mention of such an important concept, don’t you think?"

      No, I don't see the problem. Just because it had to be made clear, doesn't mean the Bible doesn't teach it from the beginning. It's not like those people in the 300s changed something in the Bible. The Trinity was already understood. They just had to make it a doctrine because of Trinitarian heresies that started popping up. Now, what mental gymnastics? If you mean it's hard to wrap your mind around, I agree. And God did mention it. Over and over again it is demonstrated in the scriptures. For instance, when Jesus is baptized, the Father is heard speaking and the holy spirit was seen. That's the Trinity right there.

      "They could be talking about three of the seven dwarfs. For all intents and purposes they’re the same thing."

      But you don't believe that. It's pretty clear if you're honest, those passages are talking about Christ.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Akira

      Isn't Hermeneutics just...interpretation? Granted, by scholars, but aren't those scholars just interpretation? Which anyone reading the Bible does, anyway? Their own way?

      April 26, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Two-fer

      " It's pretty clear if you're honest, those passages are talking about Christ."

      What a hoot, Topher thinks he's honest! LoL!!

      April 26, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Topher

      Doc

      "Jesus is very specifically saying that He believes in and serves EVERYTHING that is in the Torah – including all the ridiculous rules in Leviticus."

      I agree Jesus taught that the OT was true. He said it was, so if you believe the NT, you also believe the OT. But He didn't say all those things carried over into the New Covenant. For instance, the rules against eating certain foods was shown to be out in Acts Chapter 10. God said we can eat anything we want.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      People love topher

      April 26, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Topher

      Bill Deacon

      "People love topher"

      Clearly. lol

      April 26, 2013 at 1:49 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care!

      I'll ask you again Topher, which set of ten commandments are you talking about. You do know that there are more than one right?

      April 26, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • Rupert

      @Topher
      Mental gymnastics in that jesus is the son of god, and god at the same time, and also the spirit… err maybe… errr maybe not..??..?. There are plenty of verses that claim jesus was not equal (on the same level) to god. There are also plenty of verses that claim jesus and god are one. The overall interpretation of the combined verses simply depends on which side of the fence you sit on. You sit on the side of blind obedience to the doctrine, me… not so much.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • Topher

      Rupert

      " Mental gymnastics in that jesus is the son of god, and god at the same time... "

      You might be confused on what "Son of God" means, so let me try to explain. It doesn't mean son like I am the son of my father. It represents the role in the Trinity. "Son" and "Father" are used because "The Son" is submissive to "The Father". Yeah, I know the Trinity can be difficult to wrap your mind around, but it's important to understand. One God, three persons (ego), existing separately at the same time, but making one God.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
  20. William Demuth

    The cult stamp of approval!

    April 26, 2013 at 9:28 am |
    • Bill

      Atheism is a cult, you have that right.

      April 26, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.