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Mormon Church 'satisfied' with Boy Scouts possibly lifting gay youth ban
The Boy Scouts of America has been considering a change in its longstanding policy against allowing openly gay members.
April 26th, 2013
08:20 AM ET

Mormon Church 'satisfied' with Boy Scouts possibly lifting gay youth ban

By Dan Merica, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='DanMericaCNN']

Washington (CNN) – The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said it was "satisfied" with the Boy Scouts of America’s move to consider no longer denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation.

In a statement Thursday, the Mormon church called the issue “complex and challenging” and said it believed the Boy Scouts were making “a thoughtful, good-faith effort” to address the issue.

“We are grateful to BSA for their careful consideration of these issues," the statement said. “We appreciate the positive things contained in this current proposal that will help build and strengthen the moral character and leadership skills of youth as we work together in the future.”

The Boy Scouts of America said last week it would consider a proposal that would no longer deny membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation but would maintain its ban on openly gay adult leaders. The organization's executive committee made the proposal.

"If approved, the resolution would mean that 'no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.' The BSA will maintain the current membership policy for all adults," Boy Scouts public relations director Deron Smith said.

The Boy Scouts proposal was anticipated after the group had punted on the issue in February. At the time, the Mormon church heralded the postponement, saying the organization had “acted wisely in delaying a vote on this policy issue until the implications can be more carefully evaluated.”

The Mormon Church has long been a supporter of the Boy Scouts, both in numbers and words. In 2011, Mormons represented 15% of the 2.7 million registered Boy Scouts, the single biggest group.

The church teaches that sex should be reserved only for a married man and woman, and congregants in violation of the church's teaching on sexual relationships can be excommunicated. Since gay people cannot be married in the church, any sex would be premarital and therefore sinful. Under these beliefs, members of the lesbian, gay and transgender community could be practicing Mormons as long as they are celibate.

Though the church’s doctrine condemning homosexuality has not changed in the last few years, and it remains opposed to same-sex marriage, some observers say the church is subtly but unmistakably growing friendlier toward the LGBT community, including voicing support for some gay rights.

Some activists pointed to the less public role in same-sex marriage ballot initiatives in 2012, a marked departure from earlier fights - such as California's Proposition 8 in which the church vocally supported the move to have same-sex marriage banned.

A statement in support of allowing gay children to join the Boy Scouts would be another step in that softening.

“The current BSA proposal constructively addresses a number of important issues that have been part of the ongoing dialogue including consistent standards for all BSA partners, recognition that Scouting exists to serve and benefit youth rather than Scout leaders, a single standard of moral purity for youth in the program, and a renewed emphasis for Scouts to honor their duty to God,” this week's Mormon statement continued.

The Boy Scouts' proposal is expected to be presented to voting members at the organization's May meeting in Dallas. If the policy is approved, it will take effect January 1.

- CNN’s Katia Hetter contributed to this report.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Belief • Mormonism • Politics • Sexuality

soundoff (1,554 Responses)
  1. lionlylamb

    Mrs. Pepperpot wrote on April 26, 2013 at 5:08 pm stating, "Inasmuch as gay people are hated, persecuted, and generally loathed by our society, what would EVER posess you to think that it is better to be gay? You are missing the point; it's not a choice for gay people, lionlylamb, anymore than it is a choice to have the color of the skin you were born with. What perplexes you so??"

    Why would anyone who is steadfastly gay want changing their once infantile childhood escapades? No wonder gays cannot change! They never really grew up! It's sad really it is. 🙁

    April 26, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Wow, the bigotry spewing from your hateful christard mouth is sad. It's not the people who are naturally born gay that haven't grown up, it is you that hasn't. Do you own any book that is not related to the buybull?? Have you ever read any other book?? Why are you so fixated on what people do in their own bedrooms?? How do people who are gay directly affect your life??

      April 26, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      And of course, Babble Humpers, unable to shed their childish beliefs in imaginary friends, seeking to deny gays there civil rights are oh so mature.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:49 pm |
    • Akira

      You have a poor understanding of the sexuality that you were born with, lionlylamb. To say anyone's orientation is merely Peter Pan Syndrome is fallacious. The scientific evidence is out there. Either make use of it, or continue to get made fun of for your patently absurd opinions, and the fact that you are always 100% wrong on this subject.
      Your arrested development is getting tedious. Wallow in your own ignorance; I'm done.
      Other people will point it out to you; my continuing to address you will net me as much as addressing a wall.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
    • ..

      And nobody is "steadfastly" gay. "Steadfastly" implies that they can change, but are too stubborn to. You're a bigot, ll. Gay people cannot change their orientation. What a tard!!

      April 26, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
    • R.M. Goodswell

      @ truth

      Gays are the enemy – his church say so.
      They re an easy target. A group that can be tormented and marginalized without fear of repercussions.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:59 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      And they probably hope any attention they can put on gay issues will distract people from priestly pedophilia and the continuing cover up that goes all the way to the top the RCC.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:04 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      RM: I know, they're right up there with non-believers and anyone who doesn't share his imaginary friend. I just hope that a gay couple moves next door or that one of his children/grandchildren/relative of any form is gay.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:05 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      HotAir: Wait a minute...isn't their imaginary friend a pedophile? I think LL supports pedophilia.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:07 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I don't know. I refuse to go into the details and attributes of imaginary beings and friends until it is shown said beings ann friends exist.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:18 pm |
    • The real Tom

      LL, are you so moronic you can't even understand the question you're asked? WHY would anyone CHOOSE to be something for which he/she would suffer discrimination?

      Get a clue, you brain-addled coot. Do you have even one gray cell that isn't damaged? I doubt it.

      April 26, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
    • tallulah13

      We can always count on LL to produce a post filled with ignorance and hate. At least this time it wasn't littered with the laughable and labored prose that LL thinks so impressive.

      April 27, 2013 at 1:44 am |
  2. R.M. Goodswell

    This religion is even more of a bloody joke than the others.....at least take a freakin stand for SOMETHING. first they hate gays....then they don't.....first they hate blacks...then miracles of miracles, God talks to their pres. and then blacks are ok.

    Go with flow eh?

    The Feds need to tax the hell out of this and all other religions....bloody con artists.

    April 26, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
    • BD

      Sounds about like every other cultural group on the planet. First slavery is ok, then it isn't. First it's ok to drink alcohol, then it isn't, then it is again. First it's ok to burn witches, then it isn't. Funny how you polarize Mormons, when everyone else does it too including you.

      April 26, 2013 at 9:36 pm |
    • R.M. Goodswell

      lol nice reach there:)

      don't say its wrong or anything.....Because Religions aren't supposed to be a cut above the norm or anything, right?
      BTW... how could ANYONE at anytime in history call slavery ok? the writers of the Bible actually have Jesus telling slaves to "be the best slave you can be"

      the best you can say is "well you do it too"...... lol

      April 26, 2013 at 9:47 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      There is no worst religion in than hinduism, denial of truth absolute, constant and soruce of racism around the globe.

      April 26, 2013 at 9:50 pm |
  3. The real Tom

    To LionlyLame's therapist: Put your patient in a secure facility. He can't be trusted to manage independent living.

    April 26, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
  4. lionlylamb

    The main copout of societal trends regarding the gay issues is one of orientation. They can't help becoming gay for they were born 'orientated' that way! What a farce! It's in my genes! Really!? When I orientate myself directionally it is done via a compass. When I orientate myself with what the speaker is talking about it is the orientation of thoughts perceived that orientates one's views. Being orientated to any type of se exualism is just that, a question of orientation brought about from continually re-orientating one's mindset. S exual orientation comes to one only after one begins to contemplate a s exual awareness, not beforehand! It is the tangled web one weaves that leads many a stray; away from a hetero living.

    April 26, 2013 at 8:16 pm |
    • The real Tom

      When you manage an actual thought, LL, notify the media.

      April 26, 2013 at 8:17 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      So you're of the opinion that it is a pure choice. Those who are gay "choose" to be ostracized from society by religiously bigoted assholes like you? They choose to not be able to get married in many states. They choose to undergo the risk of bodily harm from the crazy "THIS IS GOD'S COUNTRY fuckheads?
      Sure, keep telling yourself that lie. If you really think that's the case, then "choose" to get into a loving, sexually active, long term relationship to someone of the same gender. Do it today, and keep at it for 5 years. Then I might give your flat assertion that it's a choice some merit.

      April 26, 2013 at 8:20 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Can you make yourself "orientate" to being gay, idiot? If not, why would you think someone can make himself be "straight"?

      Why are you so fvcking dumb?

      April 26, 2013 at 8:21 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      hawaiiguest,

      I sense pain and anguish in your word. Sorry to hear such anger. So sad,, so sad. 🙁

      April 26, 2013 at 8:42 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @lionly

      And once again, you are unable to actually address the point of a post.
      You really are just a pathetic tool without any clue as to what you're talking about.

      April 26, 2013 at 8:45 pm |
    • Akira

      "The main copout of societal trends regarding the gay issues is one of orientation. They can’t help becoming gay for they were born ‘orientated’ that way! What a farce! It’s in my genes! Really!?"

      Yes, really. Truly. And for real.
      While you're doing research in your little pet topics, do a little research here and get educated.
      Your compass analogy was absurd.
      No one "chooses" to be gay. Grow up.

      April 26, 2013 at 8:46 pm |
    • Bill

      Of note today: Gay "unconversion" guy recants:
      http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-gay-activist-reportedly-gay-again-2013-4

      April 26, 2013 at 8:46 pm |
    • Akira

      Someone needs to save this for Douglas. Show him just how much harm these types of programs cause...I believe I will c/p for him...

      April 26, 2013 at 9:12 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "I sense pain and anguish in your word"

      I sense psychotropic meds in yours, azzhole.

      April 26, 2013 at 9:14 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Akira,

      That's what I tell the gays to do, "Grow up!" Their infantile lingering still with childhood fantasies coming to physical revelations is childish to say the least when one is all grown up!

      April 26, 2013 at 9:16 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Sez LionlyLeeringLoser, who admitted to abusing a relative of the same gender.

      Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, LionlyLoser.

      April 26, 2013 at 9:19 pm |
    • Akira

      Lionly, you perceived notions about gay people are extremely myopic and wrong. I do not know ONE person who has ever "outgrown" their sexual orientation.
      They can no more abandon sexual preference than you can.
      You have no qualifications to tell *anyone* else anything about their orientation. All you have is your opinion, which is scientifically *wrong*.
      If a gay person told you to grow up and stop being hetero, would you give any credence to such a ridiculous opinion?
      Of course not. I also doubt you even *know* any gay people, let alone walk up to them and say such an absurd thing.

      April 26, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
    • ..

      One of the biggest copouts is trying to tell someone else how to behave when their own life is a train wreck. One of the silliest things I have ever heard is someone who is celibate BY CHOICE telling anyone that is the way for all people to behave.
      Douglas does it, lionlylamb does it, both are unqualified to give advice on sexuality or orientation.
      If you want to live with your own dysfunction, fine, but don't EVEN presume to pass off your idiocy as advice. You look stupid as hell, and you will be (rightly) laughed at. Hung up on sex? That's on you, lionly, and the majority of people aren't, so shut up, already!!

      April 26, 2013 at 9:42 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Akira stated, "Lionly, you perceived notions about gay people are extremely myopic and wrong. I do not know ONE person who has ever "outgrown" their se xual orientation."

      That my Akira is a problem then isn't it? Your perceptiveness is in matching with political correctness. Mine isn't. As for knowledge of "ONE" person, outgrowing their once infantile acts at a young age there are more than you think who 'dabbled' in the physical arts. Many chose hetero Life. Some chose not. Their bad, not mine!

      April 26, 2013 at 10:27 pm |
    • Austin

      then there are those who choose to be such a flamer that everyone in the vicinity knows they are flaming. Instead of struggling they are flamboyant. like a drunk thirteen year old at a party. Huuuuuuu I'm drunk.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • Akira

      Lionly: look up some scientific and neurological papers that will tell you, empirically, that sexual orientation isn't a *choice*. This is where you err; thinking that it is.
      For someone who prides himself on searching for scientific answers, you fail miserably when it comes to this very, very simple reality.

      I am not the one in error here.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      The dead jew zombie death cult aka christianity version of a flamer is a Babble Humper evangelizing and harassing people on public streets.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:45 pm |
    • Akira

      Austin, you are showing yourself to be as big of a bigot as lionlylamb. If you don't understand anything about sexual pathology, don't say anything at all.
      Is this what you do when you reveal your 'revelations'? Show off? It seems to me that you are just as flamboyant when it comes to those.
      Do you want people to accept you as you are? So do gay people. Period.

      April 26, 2013 at 10:45 pm |
    • The real Tom

      LL, you are a fvcking bigot. You CHOSE to abuse a younger male relative. THAT was a choice.

      The gender one is attracted to is not.

      How long are you going to stay stupid?

      April 26, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Why can't you answer a simple question, LionlyLipsh!t? Could you will yourself, right now, to be attracted to someone of the same gender?

      Why can't you answer? Are you just a coward?

      April 26, 2013 at 11:18 pm |
  5. Trance

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKxk9TvyJrs

    April 26, 2013 at 7:06 pm |
  6. STFU

    Russians arrested 140 muslim suspects straight out of mosque, while we are pampering a real bomber, big difference.

    April 26, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
  7. ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

    My fart ism, filthy secular s, Tin Foiled Allah, boom, pressure cooker issm, truth absolute, boom

    April 26, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
  8. Mrs. Pepperpot

    Uh, oh. Are they starting the deletion stuff with this blog, too? I just answered lionlylamb, and it is gone...

    April 26, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
  9. lionlylamb

    Ken wrote on April 26, 2013 at 4:03 pm, "lionlylamb, If you're not already, do you think that you could just choose to be gay? Pretty or plain, rich or poor, short or tall, athletic or not, "popular" or not, straight or not, "smart" or not, ... kids judge each other in a thousand different ways, and some bully those who are different, often very brutally. We can teach children to accept who and what they are, and who and what others are, no matter what makes them different. It's teaching kids that difference is wrong that's psychologically damaging them."

    "Difference" is a fact of living ones Life. You failed to answer my question though. Let me ask once again. "Is it better for one to be 'g'ay or bi then to be hetero?" Another question, "Who are the most socially prideful, 'g'ays, bi's or heteros?" BTW, I am a resolute hetero and by choices I made in my Life passing have I stayed hetero. Single and now 58, I live with my brother. I care for him deeply. I support him and will so do till my death. We live a meager Life. He stays drunk most of the time and I will not try to change him. I quit drinking alcohol in 2009. I love him as I loved our parents. My love for my bro is sensual not physical. But what do you know about the differences between the sensual and the physical?

    April 26, 2013 at 4:57 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @lionly

      Good job not actually answering the question, as is usual for you.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
    • David

      the answer is: define "better". Is it better to be right handed or left handed? If you define better as which one is more common making the goods we buy and use catered to a certain hand, then I would say being right handed is "better" because so many things are made specifically for right handed persons. But if you define it as which makes you a more valuable human then I would same they are exactly the same, it does not matter in the least. That is the same answer to your question. Being hetro is "better" when defined by ease of use and commonality, but certainly not "better" when it comes to value as a human and eligibility for our human rights.

      April 26, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • David

      "I am a resolute hetero"

      LOL.

      res·o·lute /ˈrezəˌlo͞ot/Adjective: Admirably purposeful, determined, and unwavering.

      I'm glad you are "unwavering" in the s e xuality you were born. Others were not born that way so my question to you: What makes you think anyone should get to judge others as to who was born better or worse?

      April 26, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
    • Mrs. Pepperpot

      Inasmuch as gay people are hated, persecuted, and generally loathed by our society, what would EVER posess you to think that it is better to be gay? You are missing the point; it's not a choice for gay people, lionlylamb, anymore than it is a choice to have the color of the skin you were born with. What perplexes you so??

      April 26, 2013 at 5:08 pm |
    • Sam

      Well tall people are better than short people, i mean, that's just a fact right?

      April 26, 2013 at 5:33 pm |
    • Ken

      Me, I'm straight as well, but I haven't the slightest attraction to men so I don't believe that I could "choose" to switch even if I wanted to. That's not to say that I don't accept other men's assertion that they're only attracted to men, or to men as well as women. They're just different that I am, that's all. Of course, I could act like I'm something different, but I wouldn't be happy doing it. We're not all living in some prison where dominating other guys by ra ping them is how you gain power. We're living in the free world where consenting adults ought to be free to love one another, yes?

      I don't think that any particular orientation is "happier" than the others. I think that being forced to pretend to be something that you're not isn't a recipe for any kind of happiness.

      April 26, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
    • Ken

      Oh, I'm sorry, you said which is "better"? Again I say it's better to be true to thine own self, to paraphrase the Bard.

      April 26, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Short people got no reason to live

      April 26, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • Marlon Brando

      Bring me the butter...

      Oh, oh, you said which was better... thats obvious, butter is better...

      April 26, 2013 at 5:56 pm |
    • Akira

      @BDeacon: thanks, Randy Newman.

      April 26, 2013 at 7:50 pm |
  10. lionlylamb

    Akira wrote on April 26, 2013 at 3:59 pm, stating, "Ll, families don't get to choose their offspring's gender preference.
    You are all about science, aren't you? Surely you know that."

    Parents and not societal jurisdictions should be what matters when teaching ones child(ren) the facts of s exualism. As a child distances themselves from parental governing, they begin to seek out a social construct to ease their wanting for being and becoming known to a social niche. What a child becomes in adult Life is due their upbringing way. A child who is brought up knowing their parents' views on all social mannerisms, said child will empathize its parental concerns. A child who is left to fend for their own views regarding social mannerisms, they become lost in societal transitioning.

    Again I ask a question to be answered. Is it better to be 'g'ay or bi then to be hetero?

    April 26, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • .

      LL is the belief blog pseudo intellect, just laugh at their posts and move on.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:35 pm |
    • David

      "What a child becomes in adult Life is due their upbringing way." So, if I raise my child to be gay, they will surely be attracted to people of their same gender when they grow up? And i'm sure all you parents out there with gay children raised them to be gay right?

      LL, you are a total moron. It doesn't work that way and never has.

      As for your question: "Again I ask a question to be answered. Is it better to be 'g'ay or bi then to be hetero?"

      the answer is: define "better". Is it better to be right handed or left handed? If you define better as which one is more common making the goods we buy and use catered to a certain hand, then I would say being right handed is "better" because so many things are made specifically for right handed persons. But if you define it as which makes you a more valuable human then I would same they are exactly the same, it does not matter in the least. That is the same answer to your question. Being hetro is "better" when defined by ease of use and commonality, but certainly not "better" when it comes to value as a human and eligibility for our human rights.

      April 26, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      David,

      Children brought up by parental concerns outwardly and with no societal restraints leveraged them, they will see the sociological internments of s exuality for what it is.

      April 26, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • David

      did you just say "Parents who don't force hetro behavior on their children will inevitibly have gay children?

      What part of "born that way" are you not getting? Parents who force hetro behavior on their children will have the same chance of having a gay child as anyone else, they just won't have much chance of a meaningful relationship with that child who thinks their parents will disown them if they find out their gay.

      April 26, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • Dippy

      Actually, Lionly's posts are starting to make sense, albeit in their own peculiar way. At least he can construct a sentence that is self-consistent.

      April 26, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
    • The real Tom

      What a moron. Is it better to be male or female, LL? That's just as idiotic as your asinine query. What don't you understand about the fact that we don't choose our orientation any more than we choose our gender?

      My word, you just keep getting more absurd.

      April 26, 2013 at 6:37 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      So then, "What good comes from being physically gay? What illnesses can be acquired thru anal intercourse?"

      April 26, 2013 at 7:32 pm |
    • Akira

      Listen, lionly, if you want to be willfully ignorant as to how gender preference occurs, fine. Your questions now border on the absurd. How gay people express themselves is none of your business. Plus, you are completely ignoring the fact that a) hetero couples engage in anal sex, and b) lesbians are gay, also, and you seem to me targeting gay males for your queries.

      You are attracted to the opposite sex. Gay people are attracted to the same sex. Bi's are attracted to both. Their upbringing has nothing to do with it, unless their parents sought to quash their natural sexuality, once made apparent to them, of course.

      Your feelings toward your brother has nothing to do with anything, and why you brought him up is beyond me.
      Sibling love is completely different from gay love, so you don't need to worry about waking up one day with your orientation changed, and wanting to act on that with (of all people) your brother.

      April 26, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
  11. Over 40,000 denominations of insanity

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over 4,000,000 members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    Some believe the Pope is the Anti-Christ. Some believe Obama is the Anti-Christ.

    Some believe that celibacy is the only option for certain people, or for people in certain positions. Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but pretend not to understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease.

    In the U.S. recently we learned of the head of Lutheran CMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create more extreme divisions as time goes by, constantly subjecting others in its crossfire.

    April 26, 2013 at 4:00 pm |

    • Theodore Roosevelt did not take the oath of office on a Bible in 1901.

      John Quincy Adams swore on a book of law.

      William Howard Taft, the only U.S. President to also hold the office of Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court:

      I do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe.

      As Deist Christians, the first five presidents including John Adams, James Madison & Thomas Jefferson were likely to have quite a different notion of God than the Christian God of today. Deist Christians may have followed Christ's teachings, but usually refuted the divinity of Christ. They were always ready to call out on the dark side of organized religion:

      I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved – the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced! With the rational respect that is due to it, knavish priests have added prostitutions of it, that fill or might fill the blackest and bloodiest pages of human history. "

      (John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 09/03/1816)

      Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

      (Thomas Jefferson, from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

      During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

      (James Madison, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution & Bill of Rights – from A Memorial and Remonstrance as delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785.)

      John Tyler, the 10th POTUS was a Deist Christian.

      Many believe Abraham Lincoln was a Deist.

      John Remsburg, in his book Six Historic Americans (1906), cites several of Lincoln's close associates:

      After his assassination Mrs. Lincoln said: "Mr. Lincoln had no hope and no faith in the usual acceptance of these words." His lifelong friend and executor, Judge David Davis, affirmed the same: "He had no faith in the Christian sense of the term." His biographer, Colonel Lamon, intimately acquainted with him in Illinois, and with him during all the years that he lived in Washington, says: "Never in all that time did he let fall from his lips or his pen an expression which remotely implied the slightest faith in Jesus as the son of God and the Savior of men."

      The Deistic side of John Adams comes out strong in these paragraphs A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America (1787-1788)

      The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

      Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • mama k

      My posts are dedicated today to "Bill" and "lol??"

      April 26, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
  12. STFU

    only in Pakistani muslims:
    1. Parents allow brothers to mess around with sisters, and marry them
    2. Adults are socially allowed to sleep with young boys under custom called "Buchha Bazi", literally sleeping with young boys

    ISLAM IS A SICK RELIGION AND GETTING SICKER

    April 26, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      your facts are wrong. many cultures and civilizations have allowed siblings to marry. don't pigeon hole.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
  13. Doc Vestibule

    When the American south was forced to rescind Jim Crow laws and accept racial integration, it was Baptists who most strongly opposed equality.
    Wallie Criswell, an extremely popular and influential Southern Baptist Minister famously said "Let them integrate! Let them sit up there in their dirty shirts and make all their fine speeches. But they are all a bunch of infidels, dying from the neck up."
    Scarcely half a century later, the zeitgeist has shifted so radically that such open racism is considered abhorrent to the very same Christian sect that spouted scripture to justify insti.tutionalized bigotry.
    The prevailing Christian condemnation of ho.mose.xuality will soon be viewed with the same sense of shame that the memory of segregation elicits.

    April 26, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Roger that

      Indeed.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION

      hind itches. arrrrg. used wrong hand.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      well said, Doc. conservatives have ALWAYS been on the wrong side of social justice. they opposed freeing slaves. they opposed a woman's right to vote. they opposed minority voting rights, as well as civil rights. they opposed blacks & whites marrying. now they opposed g.ay marriage. the list goes on...

      conservatives, which usually means religious, are some of the worst people in the world. they preach "love" and "tolerance", but really only mean for anyone in their own group. outsiders not welcome - unless you'll join the cult. if a white guy has a flat tire on the side of the road, as long as he doesn't have tattoos and a mohawk, people driving by will stop and help him. now make it a middle-eastern guy or an indian with a turban and watch those same "kindly" people call the police, "there's a terrorist stealing a car on the side of the highway."

      April 26, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • STFU

      ISLAM IS A SICK RELIGION AND GETTING SICKER, IT IS TIME THIS WEED IS ERADICATED

      April 26, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      So then, how should hetero families teach their children that they can choose to be 'g'ay or hetero or even bi? 'S'exual ident ities become psychologically entangled when the adults can no longer teach innocent children of moralized 'se'xual behaviorisms within their cultured society leaving said children to suffer their way in Life. Is being 'g'ay or bi better then being hetero?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • Larry

      Doc
      The pattern that appears to me is that one small liberal sect arises to counter the majority opinion about something. First, killing heretics, then crusading, then burning witches, then freeing the slaves, then not openly persecuting Jews, and finally integration. Each of these were spearheaded by liberal Christians, usually allied with atheists and agnostics, and opposed by powerful Conservative forces. After every defeat, and long after the changes were accepted by the majority from even their own churches, Conservative leaders would, of course, claim that their churches were the ones behind bringing about this change.

      50 years from now, the pastors who consider themselves the leaders of the Christian Right will be claiming victory for the positive changes of having openly gay, legally married couples bringing their kids to their churches, and will deny any whisper of what the bible colleges they graduated from use to teach. Their parishioners will, of course, also accept this as the gospel truth, coming as it does from a person of God whom they were taught to trust completely and the cycle will continue with whatever group Conservative Christianity has labelled as it's enemy at that time.

      I can't imagine who that would be, but they'll find somebody. They have to have one. Nothing keeps a group together like a common enemy that both strokes people's fear and is weak enough to terrorize in self-righteous zeal.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • Ken

      Bootyfunk
      A lot of them still oppose these things, and there aren't too many Conservative Christian leaders out there brave enough to put them straight. Not many Republican politicians brave enough either.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • Akira

      Ll, families don't get to choose their offspring's gender preference.
      You are all about science, aren't you? Surely you know that.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • Ken

      lionlylamb
      If you're not already, do you think that you could just choose to be gay?

      Pretty or plain, rich or poor, short or tall, athletic or not, "popular" or not, straight or not, "smart" or not, ... kids judge each other in a thousand different ways, and some bully those who are different, often very brutally. We can teach children to accept who and what they are, and who and what others are, no matter what makes them different.

      It's teaching kids that difference is wrong that's psychologically damaging them.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • David

      I believe when we stick to teaching children the similarities between themselves and others the whole debate over gay/straight is shown to be hollow. Instead of teaching them from the perspective of "One of these things is not like the other..." We need to be teaching them "How many things are just like the other, how many things are exactly the same"

      The other way to view the question is to ask yourself, "how would I teach my child not to bully others for anything?" If you are a sane parent the answer should be obvious, which is to not bully your child and to take an active role in your childs daily life, meet their friends, talk to their teachers and monitor their internet and facebook useage, otherwise you will be living with a stranger and may have to ask yourself "How did they turn out this way? I never saw it coming? My child could never hurt or bully someone else, could they?"

      April 26, 2013 at 4:38 pm |
  14. Bootyfunk

    Mormons, the morons that bankrolled Prop 8 in Cali, are okay with g.ay boy scouts? gotta say i'm surprised.

    good to see more and more Christians moving away from the bible.

    April 26, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Answer

      It's another ploy for more converts. It always is.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
  15. Reality

    Should we really care what a business cult that fronts as a religion and is based on a visit from a mythical, horn-blowing, angel has to say on any subject?

    Added details are available.

    April 26, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • ;

      Give us details on why we should even consider YOUR opinion.

      ONLY details on why we should consider YOUR opinion.

      Do you have a college education in theology?

      Do you have a degree in history?

      Do you have a degree in ancient literature?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      @;
      you go first. why does your opinion matter? what qualifications do you have to question his opinion?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • ;

      I'm human, that is reason enough to question another person is it not?

      April 26, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • David

      ; – "Give us details on why we should even consider YOUR opinion."

      "you go first. why does your opinion matter?"

      ; – "I'm human, that is reason enough to question another person is it not?"

      So I take it you must have assumed that "Reality" is not human but a computer which is why you question it's opinion?

      April 26, 2013 at 4:44 pm |
    • ;

      David, you are an idiot.
      But if it helps for those that care, I have taken college classes in Judaism, Christianity and multiple history courses. If philosophy only counts for the intellectual snobs out there I have also read Camus, Kierkegaard and Dante. Though some might consider his writings more theological.

      Now then, what do you bring on here Reality?

      April 26, 2013 at 5:36 pm |
    • David

      – golf clap –

      So witty with that come back that did not have anything to do with what I pointed out.

      So with all that education, what is your opinion then? You must have one I assume? Should we care what a business cult called Mormonism that fronts as a religion and is based on a visit from a mythical, horn-blowing, angel has to say on any subject? Should we care what these magic undie wearing Moroni Baloney blowhards think? Joseph Smith was a lying pedophile sycophant who stole an unknown authors fictional work and turned it into one of the greatest cash cows of all time, which from a business persepctive was pretty darn savy.

      April 26, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • ;

      David, why do you feel this strange need to shelter Reality from these questions? I am sure he is adult enough to defend himself.

      Curious, please define "business cult"?

      April 26, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • David

      Business: a usually commercial or mercantile activity engaged in as a means of livelihood : trade, line

      cult /kəlt/Noun 1.A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
      2.A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

      Business cult: commercial or mercantile activity engaged religious beliefs or practices that are designed to separate the fool and their money and are regarded by others as strange or sinister.

      April 26, 2013 at 6:29 pm |
    • ;

      Which comes first? The business or the religion?

      April 26, 2013 at 7:51 pm |
    • Reality

      Added details:

      Bottom line: Mormonism is a business/employment/investment cult using a taxing i.e. t-ithing "religion" as a front and charitable donations and volunteer work to advertise said business. And the accounting books are closed to all but the prophet/"profit" and his all-male hierarchy.

      Tis a great business model i.e. charge your Mormon employees/stock holders a fee/t-ithe and invest it in ranches, insurance companies, canneries, gaudy temples, a great choir and mission-matured BYU football and basketball teams.

      And all going back to one of the great cons of all times i.e. the Moroni revelations to Joseph Smith analogous to mythical Gabriel's revelations to the hallucinating Mohammed !!!

      April 26, 2013 at 11:57 pm |
    • Reality

      And some more details on Mormonism:

      From: lds-mormon.com/time.shtml

      "The first divergence between Mormon economics and that of other denominations is the t-ithe. Most churches take in the greater part of their income through donations. Very few, however, impose a compulsory 10% income tax on their members. Ti-thes are collected locally, with much of the money pas-sed on informally to local lay leaders at Sunday services. "By Monday," says Elbert Peck, editor of Sunstone, an independent Mormon magazine, the church authorities in Salt Lake City "know every cent that's been collected and have made sure the money is deposited in banks." There is a lot to deposit. Last year $5.2 billion in t-ithes flowed into Salt Lake City, $4.9 billion of which came from American Mormons."
      "The Mormons are stewards of a different str-ipe. Their charitable spending and temple building are prodi-gious. But where other churches spend most of what they receive in a given year, the Latter-day Saints employ vast amounts of money in investments that TIME estimates to be at least $6 billion strong. Even more unusual, most of this money is not in bonds or stock in other peoples' companies but is invested directly in church-owned, for-profit concerns, the largest of which are in agribusiness, media, insurance, travel and real estate. Deseret Management Corp., the company through which the church holds almost all its commercial as-sets, is one of the largest owners of farm and ranchland in the country, including 49 for-profit parcels in addition to the Deseret Ranch. Besides the Bonneville International chain and Beneficial Life, the church owns a 52% holding in ZCMI, Utah's largest department-store chain.

      All told, TIME estimates that the Latter-day Saints farmland and financial investments total some $11 billion, and that the church's nont-ithe income from its investments exceeds $600 million. "

      "Members of the church celebrate the Lord's Supper with water rather than wine or gra-pe juice. They believe their President is a prophet who receives new revelations from God. These can supplant older revelations, as in the case of the church's historically most controversial doctrine: Smith himself received God's sanctioning of pol-ygamy in 1831, but 49 years later, the church's President announced its recision. Similarly, an explicit policy barring black men from holding even the lowest church offices was overturned by a new revelation in 1978, opening the way to huge missionary activity in Africa and Brazil. "

      The leaders of the Mormon Church/"Cult" are not paid? Actually, they are paid via being executives of the large Mormon-owned businesses:

      e.g. http://207.224.220.202/excerpts/hier2.htm

      "The Quorum of Twelve's president Ezra Taft Benson was a director of Beneficial Life Insurance Co. Apostle Howard W. Hunter was president of the Polynesian Cultural Center (Hawaii), and director of Beneficial Life Insurance Co., of Continental Western Life Insurance Co., of Deseret Federal Savings and Loan, of First Security Bank of Utah, of First Security Corp., of Heber J. Grant & Co., of PHA Life Insurance Co. (Oregon), of Watson Land Co. (Los Angeles), and of Western American Life Insurance Co. Apostle Thomas S. Monson was president and chairman of the board of Deseret News Publishing Co., vice-president of LDS Social Services and of Newspaper Agency Corp, and director of Beneficial Life Insurance Co., of Commercial Security Bank, of Commercial Security Bankcorporation, of Continental Western Life Insurance Co. (Iowa), of Deseret Management Corp., of IHC Hospitals, Inc., of Mountain States Telephone and Telegraph Co., of Murdock Travel, of PHA Life Insurance Co. (Oregon), of Pioneer Memorial Theater, and of Western American Life Insurance Co. Apostle Boyd K. Packer was chairman of the board of Utah Home Fire Insurance Co., while also director of Murdock Travel and of Zion's First National Bank. Apostle Marvin J. Ashton was president of Deseret Book Co., chairman of the board of ZCMI, and director of Beneficial Development Co., of First Security Bank of Utah, of First Security Corporation, of Laie Resorts (Hawaii), and of Zion's Securities Corporation. Apostle L. Tom Perry was director of American Stores Co. (which operated Skaggs Drugs and Alpha Beta supermarkets), of ZCMI, of Zion's First National Bank, and of Jewel Companies, Inc. (Chicago), and trustee of LDS Social Services and of Nauvoo Restoration. Apostle David B. Haight was director of Bonneville International Corporation, of Deseret Management Corporation, of First Security Bank of Utah, of First Security Corporation, and of Valtek, Inc., while also a trustee of Deseret Management Corporation Foundation. Apostle James E. Faust was vice-president of Deseret News Publishing Co., director of Commercial Security Bank, and of Commercial Security Bank Corporation, while also a trustee of Ballet West and of LDS Social Services. Apostle Neal A. Maxwell was director of Mountain Fuel Resources, Inc., of Mountain Fuel Supply Co., and of Deseret News Publishing Co. Apostle Russell M. Nelson was director of Zion's First National Bank. Apostle Dallin H. Oaks was chairman of the Public Broadcasting System (national), while also director of O.C. Tanner Jewelry Co. and of Union Pacific Railroad."

      April 27, 2013 at 12:01 am |
  16. Doc Vestibule

    Since atheists are all cult members in Bill's world, I guess agnostics are memebers of The Cult of Maybe.

    April 26, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • Science

      Hello Doc .....................well te devil made me do it ...............LOL

      Peace

      April 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      The Cult of Maybe pays homage to the deity known as Ayedunnoe.
      They've been having a hard time compiling their Holy Book since nobody can decide what the ti/tle should be.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      @Doc

      LOL!

      they have made a decision on the color of the cover of their holy book though - grey.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
  17. alias

    @ bootyfunk.
    One of us counted wrong.
    Discriminating against gays is wrong and stupid. For the Boy Scouts to concern themselves with the sxual orientation of children would be laughable if they weren't doing it.

    It was the 'firing a woman for not having sx with me' i was questioning. What if i hire a hoooker?

    April 26, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      you think children aren't developing s.exually? you should really take a child development class. also, boy scouts can be 17 years old. think a 17 year old "child" isn't s.exual at all? do you think s.exuality turns on at 18 years of age and not before? you sound like a parent that thinks if they don't talk to their 13 year old about s.ex, the 13 year old will never think about it.

      and what about firing a hoo.ker? not sure what question you're asking.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
  18. Uncouth Swain

    As long as other organizations are not using their power and posiiton to force others to do things they don't want to...then there is no problem. We need to respect freedom of choice no matter what that choice is.

    April 26, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      do you think the civil rights act should be repealed? should there be freedom to provide a separate drinking fountain for blacks? should you have the freedom to pay asians less than europeans at your work? should you have the freedom to shout "fire" in a movie theater? freedom to punch someone in the face if they disagree with you? freedom to fire a woman if she won't have s.ex with you?

      April 26, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • alias

      @ bootyfunk
      no
      no
      no
      no
      no
      well, now you're getting technical and oversimplifying the issue.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      am i oversimplifying? not allowing membership because someone is g.ay sounds very close to not hiring someone because they are black. it's actually a very reasonable comparison. not allowing someone to be a member of the club based on s.exual orientation or ethnicity - not much difference at the end of the day. perhaps you don't like the comparison because it puts your beliefs in a bad light....?

      April 26, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Bill

      Being black is totally a different subject, being a black person doesn't mean they're black because of a mental disease. On the other hand, being gay is a mental disease as well as being an atheist.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      being g.ay is not a mental disease. all medical associations, including the APA, say being g.ay is normal. seems you're mostly lacking in education. you know more than the Psychological Association of America about psychology? you obviously think being g.ay is evil because the bible told you to think that. you don't have to obey, Bill. have the courage to stand up and join the human race.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
    • .

      "On the other hand, being gay is a mental disease "

      .
      .YeahRight

      Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      April 26, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • ME II

      I think the discrimination aspect has to do with the purpose of the organization. A church has a right to discriminate based on religion when hiring a priest or pastor because the religion is its purpose, but a restaurant cannot discriminate based on race because its purpose is making money by selling food to the public.
      Although, how the BSA is allowed to discriminate on orientation, I'm not certain, but I think orientation not being a protected class factors into it.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Bill
      Not a single mental health organization would agree with you.
      The DSM (basically the Bible of mental health professionals) does NOT classify being gay as a mental disorder.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Akira

      Bill is enjoying his trolling. I submit that Bill knows very well that being gay and being an atheist are not mental diseases, but enjoys the attention being a flamer employs. I won't entertain his bigotry any longer.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • Bill

      Of course not, because the gays put so much pressure on the gov. to have it changed. But before it was changed it was declared as a mental disease and its still is. Having forced the gov., by crying out discrimination don't change the fact that is was diagnosed a mental disease. The problem with you atheists and gays is you forced the gov, to change things and values that don't suits you. You like it your ways, and doesn't mean that you are right. Syphilis at one time was so spread around the world that on passenger boats back then removed every door knobs of every door to protect their passengers. The companies and the gov, did everything to stop this disease being spread by gays. Having that changed now don't change the fact that more disease will be coming from them in the future. Playing in someone sewer pipe is not a hygienic area to start with.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • mama k

      Bill sounds a bit like Salero – just as childish. Maybe Salero missed some meds and was just in more of a funk as "Bill".

      April 26, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Ok I'm actually calling Poe on Bill. This is just way to stupid and incoherent to think of seriously.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • Bill

      It's all i have to say, over and out.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • mama k

      "But before it was changed it was declared as a mental disease"

      You're an idiot. Lots of things were a mental disease for which we now have better answers. It's just a matter of going back far enough to see when exactly we learned things. That word "learn" bothers you, doesn't it, Bill?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      @Bill
      we forced the gov't to treat people fairly. i know you can't stand that. you'd love to inst.itute tyrannical biblical law and stone non-virgin brides to death, but this is not a theocracy. you'd love to have christians promoted above all others. you actually seem to think you know more than all the scientists in the world that study the brain. talk about the height of ignorance. because you 2K year old book written by people that thought the earth was flat says g.ays are evil doesn't make it so.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • mama k

      I see your point, hawaii; lol.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Bootyfunk- "not allowing membership because someone is g.ay sounds very close to not hiring someone because they are black. it's actually a very reasonable comparison."

      Not really at all. One difference is that when you try to compare businesses and public places with the Boy Scouts. Public places and businesses are answerable to the Federal Govt because they pay taxes and/or recieve benefits from the govt. As far as I can remember, the Boy Scouts are still tax free and does not benefit directly from the govt.

      They are an independant organization and are free to behave as they see fit as long as it does not harm the private citizen outside of the organization. But the moment they are under the jurisdiction of the Fed. Govt..I'll be right with you telling them they cannot dicriminate.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      @Uncouth
      you are under informed. the boy scouts receive TONS of federal (and state) money. who told you they didn't?
      go to this website: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/03/25/boy-scouts-get-federal-money-for-their-discrimination/
      "a Boy Scout group in Alaska is about to get nearly $1,000,000 worth of federal funds from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development."

      that's one example of MANY. so since they DO receive federal tax dollars - still think they should be allowed to be prejudice?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @Booty- Well...the Scouts are an 501(c) organization that makes them tax exempt.

      As for recieving help from the govt, if there is a legal problem then they should take away the cash like they did Acorn for crossing the line.
      If they don't...then I guess the govt approves of what they are doing or how they define their organization.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      that's the point - they do receive tax exempt status, they do receive tax payer money and yet they still promote prejudice. the gov't isn't SUPPOSED to be okay with this:

      "Both HUD and White House websites have rules that say no grant-receiving group can discriminate against anyone who wants to use the service."

      yet they still get the money. why? because they hide behind religion. you can say all sorts of prejudicial comments as long as you say your religious - we have to excuse you. that's not how it should be. you receive federal tax dollars or are exempt from taxation, you don't get to make your own rules about how to treat people or who to hire and who not to. the boy scouts should have all this revoked.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      "he Boy Scouts are still tax free and does not benefit directly from the govt."

      you must live in dreamland if you think not paying taxes isn't benefiting directly. you "directly" get to keep money others have to give. watch someone with tax exempt status go the the register and saves hundreds of dollars in not paying sales tax. is there anything more direct than that? you don't have to wait for your benefit - it's immediate, tangible and quantifiable.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "yet they still get the money. why? because they hide behind religion."

      Though I agree with most of what you said, I couldn't with this. personally I think it's more of a matter of the Scouts history within the nation and patriotism than religion.
      When I think of the Boy Scouts from when I was young (I was never a member but had friends that were) I remember the focus on patriotism and virtually nothing about religion.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      So, if it's a mental disease (which it isn't) you are for discriminating against people for having an illness or a genetic disability?

      Either way, you're a jerk.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "you must live in dreamland if you think not paying taxes isn't benefiting directly."

      It's not quite that clean cut of course. Just like with religious insti tutions....being tax exempt means they are not suppose to affect the nation outside of their organization. In the case of religion, not telling your flock how to vote and who to vote for. In the case of the Boy Scouts, not using their resources to lobby for certain political measures.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      i have a different memory. a friend at school asked me to join his scout group. i tried. but i was an atheist. you have to be a christian to be a scout. you have to swear to god. they tried to convert me. with no success, they told me i wasn't welcome and sent me home. after that i just thought of them as a prejudiced religious organization.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "i just thought of them as a prejudiced religious organization."

      I would say they are a biased religious organization myself. Personally I never cared for the scouts and never had any desire to join when I was a kid (the patriotism stuff I didn't like and grown to hate in some degree) and really don't care what they do as long as they stay within the confines of the law. If the govt finds them in violation then they should take away their support.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      political lobbying has nothing to do with it. no you shouldn't be able to do lobby politically if you receive tax dollars. but that's a separate issue. we're talking about receiving tax money and not paying taxes and prejudicial policies regarding joining. if you receive federal dollars, which means mine and your tax money, you should NOT be allowed to have prejudicial rules of membership. want to make your own rules, like the KKK does? stop taking tax dollars and start paying your fair share.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • Ken

      "But before it was changed it was declared as a mental disease"
      That would be back in the good old days when people were shamed into keeping their mentally handicapped kids at home, or shipping them off to live out their days in inst.itutions. Back when lobotomies and shock treatment were the treatments of choice for a wide variety of mental conditions. Those are the days, and the kind of science you want to go back to, eh?

      April 26, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      If being gay should be in the DSM then there is no question believing in imaginary supernatural beings should also be considered a mental illness. Probably isn't because of the political clout of the believer cult industry.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
  19. Bill

    Not worth my time- correction.

    April 26, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • alias

      Typical christian hypocrite.
      Good job Bill

      April 26, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      give Bill a break – he's a Christian. not used to thinking critically. he's been taught to turn off his brain his whole life.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • Bill

      What else do you want from me? I already gave my point of view about atheism and paranoia, what else do you want? That's typical of you, you asked one question then we answer then you ask again and we answer again, after a few times it gets boring having to answer to that same question, then you turn around and call us typical christian hypocrites. Gosh you atheists are more mentally sick than i previously thought.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      yes, we asked you to clarify your position - we're sick! especially for those who didn't read the posts on the previous page - sick how they asked for your point of view!

      lol.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • Bill

      If you're so sick of it then just don't ask me anymore, simple as that. lol

      April 26, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      okay, Bill, no more discussion on the discussion boards. good advice.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • alias

      @Bill

      I looked. You did not answer my question anywhere i could find.
      How do you know you are worshipping the right god?

      April 26, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Akira

      Look up paranoia (DSM IV 301.0). It is a human condition that affects everyone; religious (and as there are more of them than atheists, more likely to have larger numbers of those suffering from it) and the non-religious.
      Paranoia is a manifestation that doesn't target atheists, all atheists, as asserted. It is just another baseless opinion of the bigoted, as the assertion that being gay is a form of mental illness, which it assuredly is NOT.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • Bill

      You are a big joke Akira, paranoia just don't affect only a group of people, either they're black or white or religious or not. Paranoia could and can affect anyone, and in the case of atheism it is well defined, atheists feels that god and religion is constantly persecuting them. Or is it schizophrenia? lol

      April 26, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      it's not paranoia if it's really happening. ex-pres Bush said, "No, I don't think atheists should be considered American citizens."
      but you think that's paranoia?

      atheists have been fired from their jobs for their non-belief. but you think that's paranoia?

      at one time christians kill and tortured atheists. but you think that's paranoia?

      some of our greatest minds have been locked up for going against the bible? but you think atheists are being paranoid?

      you call it paranoia because you are part of the oppressive group.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • mama k

      Gee, jokster Bill, what kind of information can you supply to back up this notion of paranoia among atheists? I mean certainly you must have something to back that up, right?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Bill

      I've already answered that question somewhere on this comment board. Go read it.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • Akira

      Paranoid schizophrenia is a different diagnosis, Bill, and it seems that trying to educate you is the joke, not me.
      In any case, stay with your bigoted little ideas. Fortunately, you aren't allowed to codify your bigoted beliefs into law.

      Also, look up persecution complex, for your runs deep.
      It doesn't sound as if the atheists posting here are suffering from either paranoia OR persecution complex; but it does appear as if you are exhibiting some of the symptoms. As well as rampant bigotry.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • mama k

      You haven't answered shit, Bill. You still have unanswered questions on the previous page, silly

      April 26, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Bill

      Akira read both for Paranoia and Schizophrenia. Gosh will i have to bring it up to you on a silver plate? Want a coffee with that as well?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Akira

      Lol@Bill.
      No, because I understand it; clearly you don't.
      Deflection much?
      Dishonest debating by you? Why?

      April 26, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Bill

      @ Akira

      End of discussion as far as i'm concerned. I said what i had to say and that is it. Take it the way you like it or else, i leave it up to you. lol

      P.S. I see no gain to continue this discussion with atheists at this time. None of those atheists have provided me valuable evidences of the goods they can bring to this world or where did any atheists groups have provided help needed to any places in the world in time of crisis or at any places of disasters. They have not provided as well any evidences of any donations or any type of support to hospitals concerning children with deadly disease such as cancer. I have only observed that atheists groups are hanging on the internet harassing the public because of their fixation about God and Religion. They feel constantly prosecuted by Religions and they have no desire to change their image by involving themselves in some kind of benevolent activities instead of focusing all their efforts into fighting Religions. Atheists have no desire of any kind for involving themselves in activities on a humanitarian level. Until proven otherwise, atheism is defined as a cult because of their belief system and should not be allowed to received any credits of any kind from any government or private sector. And they should not be credible candidates in a political / religion arena.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • .

      "None of those atheists have provided me valuable evidences of the goods they can bring to this world or where did any atheists groups have provided help needed to any places in the world in time of crisis or at any places of disasters. "

      Bill's lying what's new of Christians huh? Geeze.... Atheists and agnostics are more driven by compassion to help others than are highly religious people, a new study finds.

      That doesn't mean highly religious people don't give, according to the research to be published in the July 2012 issue of the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science. But compassion seems to drive religious people's charitable feelings less than it other groups.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • .

      Bill, you tard, look up Bill and Melinda Gates' foundation. You're a disingenuous, bigited asshole troll who just needs to get a grip on your hatred for anyone different than you...fuck off.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I donate via richarddawkins.net – I dare Bill to check it out.

      April 26, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
  20. Bootyfunk

    ALL religions are cults, including Christianity.. cults are bad for you. cults teach you to turn off your brain and obey.
    when cults become accepted by society, they become religions. this has already happened with Christianity.
    when religions fall out and loose all their cult members, they become mythologies.

    Christianity is at step 2.

    April 26, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • Bill

      As well as atheism, it is also a cult.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      If being atheistic means one is a member of a cult, that would mean that being asymptomatic means one has a disease or that being apolitical means one has a political affiliation.

      I've been feeling perfectly healthy today. I guess I should go to my doctor to find out what is ailing me...

      April 26, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      Bill, in what way is atheism a cult? serious question. you throw out a blanketing and ignorant question like that, but with no evidence. how is atheism a cult? perhaps you should define 'cult' first.

      April 26, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • Bill

      I've already answered that question somewhere on this comment board. Go read it.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • mama k

      You haven't answered shit, Bill.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Bill

      Yes i did. On page 1.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • mama k

      Nope. There is no answer to that question on page 1, Bill. You are either lying or you are misinformed. Perhaps you should try again.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • Bill

      @Mama K

      Oh yes i did on page 1, is it because you're too lazy to go read or is it because you are an hypocrite that you won't admit it? I did explained why i think atheism is a cult on page 1.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      Actually, you merely made an accusation without any references to back it up, then proceeded to commit a Hasty Generalization fallacy based on that unsubstantiated claim.
      So even if one were to take your initial claim at face value, your argument still didn't work.
      And that Bill, is called a Reducto ad Absurdum.

      April 26, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • Bill

      Atheists getting nervous pretty much? lol

      April 26, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      Does it make you feel good to not actually address any posts? Or is it some kind of self-righteous imperative that you be able to spew out whatever you want and ignore any challenge to it?\
      What is your point here Bill? Are you merely a poe, or are you as dishonest as you are presenting yourself to be?

      April 26, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.