home
RSS
May 2nd, 2013
12:52 PM ET

Ex-NFL player's support for gay NBA player apparently costs him church appearance

By Dan Merica, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='DanMericaCNN']

Washington (CNN) – LeRoy Butler, a former safety for the Green Bay Packers, is one of many professional athletes to tweet support for Jason Collins, the NBA player who came out as gay this week.

“Congrats to Jason Collins,” Butler tweeted April 29, the day Collins came out in a Sports Illustrated cover story.

But Butler says the four-word tweet cost him a speaking appearance at a Wisconsin church.

He was scheduled to speak at the church (whose name he has not revealed) about bullying and his new book, "The LeRoy Butler Story: From Wheelchair to the Lambeau Leap." That was until the church, according to Butler, told him he was no longer welcome because of his tweet in support of Collins.

"The pastor called me and that's when we got into the old, the whole religion thing about gay people and things of that nature and the conversation just went back and forth for us a couple of minutes," Butler told Anderson Cooper on Thursday.

After the exchange with the pastor, Butler took to twitter to express his frustration.

Butler later tweeted that “some parents went to the church and complained about my tweet” supporting Collins. The church, according to Butler, said that if the football player apologized, he would be allowed to speak.

"They basically said this, if you apologize, ask God for forgiveness and remove the tweet, you'll be able to do this speaking engagement with the kids," he said. "I won't do that. That's taking my dignity and respect away."

He continued: "I told the pastor, blame it on my mom because my mom brought me up to love everybody."

Butler recently tweeted that the church apologized for the incident and thanked him “for not releasing the church name.”

Butler played 11 years, from 1990 to 2001, with the Packers and helped them win a Super Bowl in 1997. He was a four-time All-Pro selection, the highest honor for a year of work in the NFL, and is credited with inventing the Lambeau Leap, the iconic touchdown celebration in which a Packer leaps into the Lambeau Field stands to celebrate with fans.

As for Butler's stance on gay athletes in professional sports, he said they have "support from straight guys like me that won't judge them."

"If we win a Super Bowl ring, I don't care who you bring to the ring ceremony, I just want to win the ring," Butler said. "That's what it's all about. ... Isn't that what it's all about? Winning the championship? Not who is in my bed when I turn the lights out."

Since retiring, Butler has been active in the Green Bay community, and his Facebook page chronicles appearances and speeches he has given to churches in the area.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Belief • Same-sex marriage

soundoff (3,002 Responses)
  1. Bostontola

    If Jesus loves gays (even if he expects them to correct their sin), and all Mr. Butler did was show compassion and love for a gay person, what would that church object?

    May 4, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • Bostontola

      why

      May 4, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Salerno,
      By your logic, I would be proud to be designated stupid.

      May 4, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • STFU

      talking to yourself Bostontola ? must be work related stress !!

      May 4, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
  2. Russ

    @ CNN:
    cheap journalism: openly g.ay anchor interviewing pro-g.ay athlete
    cheap journalism: openly g.ay anchor interviewing militantly anti-g.ay group
    real journalism: openly g.ay anchor interviewing Christian groups who are serving the sick & dying among the g.ay community *compassionately* while YET STILL believing the Bible teaches ho.mo.se.xuality is a sin

    how about something substantive for a change, CNN?
    it still amazes me you are giving more attention to this than to stories like Kermit Gosnell...

    May 4, 2013 at 11:47 am |
    • Gnn

      What else do you expect from gay news network?

      May 4, 2013 at 11:49 am |
    • Observer

      It's got to be tough to see that the days of discimination against fellow humans is coming to an end. Rhode Island became the 10th state to allow gay marriage.

      Bigotry is being destroyed by education.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:52 am |
    • Science

      Where do morals come from?

      By Kelly Murray, CNN

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments

      May 4, 2013 at 11:53 am |
    • Rob

      Being against gays is NOT bigotry. Educate yourself. It's called morals.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: why would you want melodrama instead of real dialogue?
      the cheap option: vilify those with whom you disagree.
      the harder reality: actual, substantive discussion.

      biblical Christians are not going away. neither are ho.mo.se.xuals. why not have real interactions instead of reciprocal hatred? if you really believe in changing minds, follow Mandela's playbook instead of smear campaigns.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:58 am |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      Why not skip the hypocrisy? Most Christians just PICK and choose what they support from the Bible and IGNORE the rest especially when it comes to fellow Christians.

      May 4, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Science

      Russ .................

      Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

      The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

      The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

      Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

      May 4, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      "Being against gays is NOT bigotry. Educate yourself. It's called morals."

      If this is how you feel then you have a rather screwed up moral compass.

      May 4, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • Observer

      Truth Prevails,

      Certainly not everyone opposing gays is a bigot (and I never said they are), but a huge number are bigots. The rapid change in support for gay marriage shows what a factor educational is.

      May 4, 2013 at 12:17 pm |
    • Jesus freaker

      It's ok Russ. We will fight for your rights. Come on out.

      May 4, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Observer: For sure, It is the way Rob is coming across that screams bigotry. It just baffles me that in the 21st century we're still hearing people speak like this.

      May 4, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: I agree that adultery (among other things) in the Church is a (statistically speaking) much bigger problem than ho.mo.se.xuality. BUT that does not mean EITHER is a good thing by biblical standards.

      the "pick & choose" argument is a classic attempt to bypass biblical Christianity. for those of us who believe it is the Word of God, there is no "picking & choosing" – to do so would be rejecting God's authority (i.e., sinning). however, this is normally where someone who's never actually studied the bible as a whole starts spouting about shellfish. it does help to actually understand what Jesus was saying about the Bible...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkNa6tLWrqk

      May 4, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Science: it's clear from your arguments that you don't realize your entire view is contingent on 'methodological naturalism.' as i said to you before, it's the reason i keep talking to you about the foundation of the house, and you keep citing articles about the color of the dr.apes.

      again, here is the article from the Economist (a secular publication) on one of the many problems with your view – in a critical review of Stephen Hawking's book...

      "Once upon a time it was the province of philosophy to propose ambitious and outlandish theories in advance of any concrete evidence for them. Perhaps science, as Professor Hawking and Mr Mlodinow practice it in their airier moments, has indeed changed places with philosophy, though probably not quite in the way that they think."
      http://www.economist.com/node/16990802

      May 4, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Ignorance is not the same as morality, Rob, no matter how much you want it to be.

      May 4, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Science

      Russ...............please pound sand ok................sorry forum gota puke !!!

      Free speech helps educate the masses................POLITICIANS too !

      Where do morals come from?

      By Kelly Murray, CNN

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments
      Gravity is not up for debate !

      BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !

      Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet..............................E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas.

      Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130425142250.htm

      Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

      The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

      The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

      Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

      April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |

      May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |

      Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418104324.htm

      And NO ANGELS the pope KICKED them OFF the TEAM last year !

      From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

      the wrong path is Adam and Eve !

      Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

      Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

      No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US

      Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.

      No god(s) needed................... Old. DNA works..................also catches crooks !

      Ancient DNA Reveals Europe's Dynamic Genetic History

      Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423134037.htm

      Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute

      http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/.../page4

      Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...

      Good stuff !

      The fact...............the earth is to old for this nonsemse ! Time to EVOLVE !

      Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

      Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

      For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !

      Where do morals come from?

      By Kelly Murray, CNN

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/

      Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.

      Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’

      Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
      bears his name as the “God particle.”

      http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/08/atheist-prof-peter-higgs-stop-calling-higgs-bosen-the-god-particle/

      Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
      Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/28/pope-praises-science-but-insists-god-created-world/

      Science

      Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
      By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/heaven-is-a-fairy-story-scientist-stephen-hawking-says/

      April 7th, 2012

      08:32 PM ET

      The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/the-jesus-debate-man-vs-myth/comment-page-137/#comment-2281915

      Make sure to read comments

      April 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |

      Breaking News

      NASA: Three planets found are some of best candidates so far for habitable worlds outside our solar system.

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/planet-discovery/index.html

      NASA: Mars could have supported life

      Star Dust we are

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWdU_px9ApE

      Holy Hallucinations 35

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XTCRdC8Dlo

      The ORIGIN story is bullsh-it...............so is the bible............... nasty !

      From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

      Scientists have unearthed the first direct signs of cheesemaking, at a site in Poland that dates back 7,500 years.

      Human Evolution

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2cHumanevo.shtml

      BBC. Planet of the Apemen. Battle for Earth 1. Ho-mo Erectus

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUliLKSJ4bQ&feature=player_embedded

      BACKFILL on E =mc2.....

      Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'

      By Jessica Ravitz, CNN

      Decades before atheist scientist and author Richard Dawkins called God a "delusion," one world-renowned physicist – Albert Einstein – was weighing in on faith matters with his own strong words.

      “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/category/culture-science/

      May 4, 2013 at 6:47 am | Report abuse |

      Cheech & Chong's History of 420

      http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/3b1508d1f0/cheech-chong-s-history-of-420?rel=player&playlist=341944

      All cults...........creationists, ID believers and devil cults.................

      The fact...............the earth is to old ...........time to EVOLVE !.

      Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

      Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

      Peace

      May 4, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "it does help to actually understand what Jesus was saying about the Bible..."

      Well there seems to be alot of differing opinion among the people who study the bible, how can we heathens know who is right?

      May 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
    • Science

      Dover Trial Transcripts............................................. FACTS.

      Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.

      http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/intelligentdesigncase/dovertrialtranscripts.htm

      May 4, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Jesus freaker

      it does help to actually understand what Jesus was saying about the Bible...

      Really? Congratulations on the enlightenment. Let's not forget that nothing that Jesus said during his lifetime was written down. Tell us what Jesus was really saying.

      May 4, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I predict that in a generation or so whether someone is gay will be irrelevant to nearly all people in nearly all situations. There will be quaint religious sects that insist that their God cares, but there are groups that think that it is prominent in God's will that they should handle poisonous snakes, or wash each others' feet, or that God cares about skin color. Polite people will avoid them. Mainstream religion (I've no doubt there will still be such a thing) will have evolved away from such notions in order to survive.

      May 4, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Science: you still are not hearing the critique. you are citing articles & forums that still don't deal with your *presuppositions.* And that is the ENTIRE debate.

      like i said, go read that economist article.
      or here's one from the NY Times... at Columbia professor pointing out many of the same problems in Lawrence Krauss' book...
      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/books/review/a-universe-from-nothing-by-lawrence-m-krauss.html?_r=0

      your objections continue to show you're not hearing the critique. seriously, read some of these. I'd rather have a real conversation with you than just your normal citation of yet another example that doesn't deal at all with your presuppositions. you don't have to agree with me to realize your current responses fail to address the criticisms being raised.

      May 4, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      "for those of us who believe it is the Word of God, there is no "picking & choosing"

      So do you protest against all the adulterers in your church?

      So do you protest against all your church members with tattoos?

      May 4, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Cheesemaker: go to the earliest sources. what does Jesus say in the Gospels? take him at his OWN words.

      He keeps telling them over & over again that all of the Bible is about him (Jn.5:39-40; Lk.24:27,44; etc.). At least recognize how *differently* such a reading of the Bible operates than your standard "do this/do that"/rulebook mentality. If it's really all about Jesus...

      May 4, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Russ

      @ TTTOO: the same mentality existed in the late 1800s. it's basically what led to the rise of the Unitarians. Mainline Protestants have followed that thought as well. BOTH of which are dying breeds. Meanwhile, it is those that take the Bible seriously which have growing denominations – both in the US & especially abroad.

      May 4, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • Science

      Russ...............Really ?...............no fairy in the sky....................really no leg to stand on is there ?.

      May 4, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: adulterers, yes. faithful churches follow up there – as messy as that is. and it is messy for all involved.

      tattoos is a failure to understand what Jesus' ultimate sacrifice did to fulfill the cleanliness code.
      here, this will help, if you'll take the requisite 90 seconds to read it...
      http://www.redeemer.com/news_and_events/newsletter/?aid=363

      May 4, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • Science

      Oops forgot Russ again thanks for the help !............religion part of the devil's cult...........not mine !

      May 4, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Science: you clearly are not reading these articles – not even skimming them. some of these guys don't even agree with my religion – but they are criticizing your position.

      understand, most scientific classes tell you at some point that the philosophical operating assumption of science is 'methodological naturalism.' it's a philosophy... a metaphysical presupposition... a FAITH, if you will.

      your criticisms against metaphysics fail to recognize that science itself necessarily *presupposes* metaphysics.
      it is not science per se that is a faith – but putting ultimate faith in science IS.
      science is merely a tool – a highly tuned human discipline of observation. as such, it's wonderful.
      but forgetting the basis on which it operates leads to conflating FAITH in science with science itself.
      that is no longer science, but scientism.

      thinking that science explains away faith NECESSARILY is making that mistake.
      physics cannot address metaphysics – as it PRESUPPOSES the latter. to do so would be self-refuting.

      i've posted this before, but i don't think you've actually listened to it.
      the speaker is citing *atheist* publications which have consistently panned your premise. note especially where he cites those critiques at the 2:15 mark & following...
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK0mjVcmcIo

      May 4, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Russ............. urls speak volumes !!!

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/28/when-religious-beliefs-becomes-evil-4-signs/#comments

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/29/new-film-examines-science-vs-religion/#comments

      May 4, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      Try this again. God SPECIFICALLY forbade tattoos.

      So do you remind fellow Christians what sinners they are about this?

      Do you protest against speakers in church who have tattoos?

      It's all "pick and choose". Pick on gays. Ignore all the Christian sinners you like in church.

      May 4, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Science

      Russ ...........might have a wedgie ? .............

      E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas....................numbers do not lie or sin !!!

      It would be nice......... but
      Maybe they should not have created the wedge !!!
      The wedge strategy is a political and social action plan authored by the Discovery Insti-tute, the hub of the intelligent design movement. The strategy was put forth in a Discovery Insti-tute manifesto known as the Wedge Docu-ment,[1] which describes a broad social, political, and academic agenda whose ultimate goal is to defeat materialism, naturalism, evolution, and "reverse the stifling materialist world view and replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic
      convictions.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy

      Peace

      February 10, 2013 at 11:03 am | Report abuse

      May 4, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Science

      Oh well Russ......................

      Scientists Find Genes Linked to Human Neurological Disorders in Sea Lamprey Genome

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130224142915.htm

      Peace

      Facts work .

      May 4, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Science:
      1) your two examples yet again fail to address their own presuppositions
      a) for example, the book in question (Charles Kimball's "When Religion Becomes Evil") fails even in its own ti.tle. Religion itself normally *dictates* good & evil, so from what ground / on what basis is he making the critique? if you read the book, he is presupposing his OWN metaphysics and projecting those standards onto others. it would actually be a devastating critique if he was looking to make such statements from WITHIN the religion's own self-understanding (for such an example, follow Observer's line of questioning here to me – at least his questions recognize this).

      b) the second example fails to even hear the criticism both cited & stated in the clip I just gave you above.

      to write it: if the manner of sweeping religion away is to appeal to evolutionary programing of the mind...
      "why do you believe in morality? you were programmed to..."
      "why do you believe in god(s)? you were programmed to..."
      not only is that a statement that your evolutionary programming DOES NOT guarantee you know the *truth* (again, the entire goal of this debate), but is also makes you susceptible to the very same critique...
      "why do you believe in evolution? you were programmed to..."

      your criticism is self-refuting. it debunks your OWN position. you continue to FAIL to see that. fellow atheists are calling you out. it's not a good argument – regardless of what you think of my faith.

      2) I'm not a young earth creationist. I don't think the Bible speaks directly to the issue of the earth's age.

      your appeal to the Creation Insti.tute (a young earth group) fails to understand the distinction.

      May 4, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: did you read the article? it doesn't seem like it.

      God also forbade shellfish. Then (in Acts 10), he said "have at it."
      by your reading, shellfish should still be off the menu.

      let's see if i can sum this up relatively quickly...
      there are 3 types of OT laws: judicial, ceremonial & moral.
      1) judicial: of or pertaining to the governance of the theocratic state of Israel
      2) ceremonial: cleansing laws/rituals necessary to approach the Holy One (YHWH)
      3) moral: laws that directly reflect God's character & are necessary for having a relationship with him

      Judicial: no longer applies because we are no longer in the theocratic state of Israel.
      Ceremonial: Jesus was our ultimate sacrifice. to continue to feel the need to do 'sacrificial/ceremonial' cleansing is to fail to understand the effects of the cross. See Acts 15 & the issue with circ.umcision (or read Galatians).
      Moral: the 10 Commandments are a great example. They still apply today.

      In short, the first two were utterly fulfilled & exceeded. that last one is part of understanding our relationship with God in an ongoing fashion.

      BUT the bigger issue here with you (from the sounds of it):
      Every other major religion in the world: follow the rules, curry favor with God/diety/power/etc. & get in
      it's up to you. obey... then maybe you'll get loved.
      Christianity: you can't follow these rules. Jesus did what we can't. love precedes obedience. obedience is not fear-based for a Christian, but a RESULT of seeing how deeply loved we are. everythign else is maneuvering... which is being your own Savior (what I do saves me).

      May 4, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      God FOBADE tattoos.
      God FORBADE h0mos3xual activity.
      Jesus SUPPOSEDLY attoned for sins.

      Show me where the Bible says being gay wasn't atoned for, but wearing tattoos was.

      Get serious and honest with yourself.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • .

      best reread the restrictions placed on tattoos you are totally wrong it is tattoos that are for the dead that are forbidden not tattoos in general. your preconceived hatred and bigotry towards all things biblical is showing

      May 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • Science

      Russ foosil records work better than the bible....................Look Close Wisconsin and a big lake !.......1900 million years !

      First Snapshot of Organisms Eating Each Other: Feast Clue to Smell of Ancient Earth

      Apr. 29, 2013 — Tiny 1,900 million-year-old fossils from rocks around Lake Superior, Canada, give the first ever snapshot of organisms eating each other and suggest what the ancient Earth would have smelled like.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • Science

      Oops the sourc for above.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130429154107.htm

      May 4, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: i'm sorry my categories were unclear for you.

      did you understand the shellfish example? the Levitical code (God's Word) forbade shellfish. Then, in Acts 10, God himself said to Peter "take & eat." Now, either you can cheaply say "that's just contradictory! see, the Bible is bunk!" or you can actually engage the text and ask why. right now, you are choosing the former.

      another example: shellfish is forbade in the OT. then it's ok in the NT. what's the big difference? the cross. the prohibition against shellfish – much like the prohibition against a woman's monthly cycle in the camp – was communicating something about ritual cleanliness. it was POINTING FORWARD to something greater. as Christians, that is the CROSS. Jesus was – as John the Baptist said – "the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." these things are no longer necessary as ways to "stay clean" before God.

      so we come to your question: what about being g.ay? note: the cross answers the issue of cleanliness – but the moral code continues. so what do we make of that question. is it just an issue of cleanliness or morality? we don't have to guess. the NT affirms that it is still wrong (see Rom.1, for example). the Bible speaks univocally here – especially when you don't just look to the half dozen or so references to ho.mo.se.xuality, but add in the CONSTANT theme of marriage throughout the Bible.

      again, if you are not purposefully dodging my point here – read the article. Tim Keller really draws this out. you don't have to agree with Christianity to understand how being biblically consistent is NOT the issue here.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • Observer

      "best reread the restrictions placed on tattoos you are totally wrong it is tattoos that are for the dead that are forbidden not tattoos in general. your preconceived hatred and bigotry towards all things biblical is showing"

      – Leviticus 19:27-28 “You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard. You shall
      no make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord”

      Ooops. Just another Christian HYPOCRITE who hasn't read the Bible.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: and to be clear, I never said that Jesus' death on the cross couldn't atone for being g.ay. you said that.

      but that's like saying it also atones for adultery. neither are to be celebrated or practiced in an ongoing way if we understand what God is doing.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • Science

      Chomp Chomp Chomp ...........Russ...................in spanish............education works for adults too !

      (EA) FÓSILES, FOSILIZACIÓN Y PALEONTOLOGÍA.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1cRg9oKTc&feature=player_embedded

      May 4, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • Science

      Dear Russ

      History Channel's "The Bible" Parts 3 & 4 – In Under 11 Minutes!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTRn28iZD_g

      May 4, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Science: more on the dr.apes, I see.
      when will you start talking about your foundation?

      for example, many here say some form of "Only what is provable is true/real/etc."
      that statement ITSELF fails its own criteria. it's NOT provable!

      again – your point of departure is CIRCULAR. it's a faith. yet you continue to appeal to data BASED upon your circular point of departure. as a result, we read the data VERY differently. i don't find it contrary to my beliefs – but because you fail to see that you are doing the very same thing from a different perspective, you continue to present secondary & tertiary citations in support of your position.

      pointblank: this is a philosophical issue. no amount of appealing to science can speak to the philosophy upon which it is based. i'm pointing at your foundation. you're continuing to talk about the interior design.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      You and I both KNOW that if Butler instead had said "I think people should be able to wear tattoos" instead that this would have been NO ISSUE at all and you would not have any any issue of it.

      All the double-talk doesn't do a thing to negate the word's of God who "NEVER CHANGES":

      "You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord”

      So did God lie or just CHANGE HIS MIND?

      May 4, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Science: ok, i guess that's a step forward. you posted *something* besides a science article.
      but to be clear, my faith is not based upon the History Channel mini-series.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:27 pm |
    • Science

      One from oeverseas Russ ! Chomp Chomp !!!

      Prehistoric shark captured on film

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mneDhOtVEQw

      May 4, 2013 at 4:27 pm |
    • Science

      Russ ..........Again thanks for the help !!!

      Have a great life !

      May 4, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: are you not reading what I'm writing? there's nothing wrong with tattoos in the NT church. Jesus' sacrifice has ended the need for that ritual cleansing.

      it's not that *God* has changed. our circ.umstances have changed – we now have a perfect sacrifice, so we don't need to continue such rituals.

      ho.mo.se.xuality (like adultery), however, remains a violation of the moral code.
      yes, Christ's sacrifice is big enough to cleanse us, but to become a Christian is not just to use Jesus as a carwash, but to begin to increasingly want what he wants – and clearly *that* is not what he wants.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • Science

      Russ facys work !

      The African Rift

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okWkmgkS00w

      Dover Trial Transcripts............................................. FACTS.

      Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.

      http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/intelligentdesigncase/dovertrialtranscripts.htm

      May 4, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Science: do you understand the difference between science and philosophy (especially metaphysics)?
      look up naturalism. you are clearly not hearing the distinction b/t the two in this discussion.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Observer

      Russ,

      – Malachi 3:6 “I the Lord do not change.”
      – Numbers 23:19 “God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.”

      "Tattos are fine now" – God

      May 4, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Science

      Education works for children

      Earth From Space

      Detailed satellite images reveal the web of connections that sustain life on Earth. Aired February 13, 2013 on PBS

      Program Description

      "Earth From Space" is a groundbreaking two-hour special that reveals a spectacular new space-based vision of our planet. Produced in extensive consultation with NASA scientists, NOVA takes data from earth-observing satellites and transforms it into dazzling visual sequences, each one exposing the intricate and surprising web of forces that sustains life on earth. Viewers witness how dust blown from the Sahara fertilizes the Amazon; how a vast submarine "waterfall" off Antarctica helps drive ocean currents around the world; and how the sun's heating up of the southern Atlantic gives birth to a colossally powerful hurricane. From the microscopic world of water molecules vaporizing over the ocean to the magnetic field that is bigger than Earth itself, the show reveals the astonishing beauty and complexity of our dynamic planet.

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/earth-from-space.html

      February 16, 2013 at 7:18 am | Report abuse |

      May 4, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Observer: I'm come to expect more of you than "Science" here. that's the cheap way out. do you really want to understand Christianity or just take uninformed shots?

      I'll go one further on you:
      "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." (Heb.13:8)
      Now, technically you could say – simply from a physical standpoint – that's IMPOSSIBLE. The bible even said he *grew* in stature & wisdom. Hence: the Bible is self-refuting, wipe your hands, you're done here.
      But that's obviously the most shallow reading of that text possible.

      let's do a little theology here, if you will... how could God become human, experience a FULLY human life in our place, and NOT change (when physically He HAD to change to experience a fully human life)? we can't be talking about his physical person, but his character.

      that's the point. his character doesn't change. he doesn't change his mind (Ex.32:14 notwithstanding). he is who he is. that's his name: "I Am." he is not a contingent being. he stands outside space & time – because he created it.

      no, he does not change. do we? yes. does the story *progressively* reveal who he is? yes, we know more about God because of Jesus than *anyone* in the OT did.

      if you're willing to read it in context (instead of looking for the easiest, shallowest way to dismiss it), there are intelligent answers here. and unlike some of your compadres here, I've come to expect you to actually want to hear the best argument of your opponents in debate rather than just look to caricature. i certainly hope to do you the same courtesy.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:46 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Russ............boarded up an old 400 room catholic assumsion siminary under orders from the police.............

      a devil's cult was having pigion rituals in the place !!!!

      May 4, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Russ ....................you can still catch brook trout on the proberty !!!

      May 4, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
    • Science

      One more fore you Russ Iam fvcking Irish !!!

      May 4, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • Science

      Oops ..............for

      May 4, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
    • Frank Jeffries

      So, if Jesus aatoned for adultery, he atoned for homoseuality, also. Interesting to note that homoseity didn't make the Top Ten, but that's all the Christians ever freaking go on about. Clean your own house first, you stinking hypocrites.

      May 4, 2013 at 5:30 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Science:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_argument_against_naturalism

      May 4, 2013 at 5:32 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Frank Jeffries:
      1) to any degree that Christians make ho.mo.se.xuality out to be more deserving of Hell than any other sin, we are hypocrites. The cross tells us we all deserve hell apart from what he did.

      but to use that as an excuse to *continue to do* things that are self-destructive is the height of cognitive dissonance.
      is the cross that powerful? yes.
      "should we go on sinning so grace might look even better? no way!" (Rom.6:1)

      2) the 10 Commandments aren't the "Top Ten".
      when asked what mattered most, Jesus said "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind & strength" (quoting Dt.6 – NOT part of the 10 Commandments).

      Actively, purposefully, continually disobeying God goes directly against that.
      Is the cross big enough to save from even that? yes.
      So I can do that & still be a Christian? temporarily, yes. long term, no. it means you are trusting something other than Jesus to be your 'functional savior.'

      May 4, 2013 at 5:42 pm |
    • Science

      Holy Hallucinations 36

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufCsSgZRPJo&list=UUe17o0PQX4LK7AvAaARxqwQ&index=2

      May 4, 2013 at 5:42 pm |
    • Science

      Oops

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufCsSgZRPJo

      May 4, 2013 at 5:46 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Russ,

      I don't find anything Jesus said all that wonderful. Don't get me wrong, he said some worthy thoughts, but nothing to make me think he was god.

      May 4, 2013 at 5:54 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Cheesemaker:
      1) is it that you don't believe his direct claim to divinity?
      2) or you are unimpressed by dead people rising back to life?
      3) or does the message (the only 'God' willing to die for me rather than making me die for it/him/her) not resonate?

      Maybe the better question then is: what are you dying for? what are you presently giving your life away for? how is that going for you? is that functional savior (success, romance, money, power, family, morality, etc.) actually delivering on what it promised?

      or do you find yourself more like Tom Brady... who when 60 Minutes asked him w/ all his success, fame, fortune, romance, family, etc., what had he learned... and he said: "there's got to be more than this. i mean, this can't be all it's cracked up to be."

      May 4, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      1 Corinthians 6

      1   Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

      2   Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

      3   Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

      4   If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

      5   I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

      6   But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

      7   Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather [suffer yourselves to] be defrauded?

      8   Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that [your] brethren.

      9   Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

      10   Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

      11   And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

      12   All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

      13   Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body [is] not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

      14   And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

      15   Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make [them] the members of an harlot? God forbid.

      16   What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

      17   But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

      18   Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

      19   What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

      20   For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

      Amen.

      May 4, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
    • Science

      HS + BS = BS..............or splat or go pound sand HS !!!

      May 4, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
    • Jesus freaker

      Blah blah, blah blah blah. Blah blah.

      Translation: As Christians, we have the prerogative to choose the Bible verses that support our predjudices and ignore the verses that do not conform to our lifestyles. Pass the offering plate. Thank you.

      May 4, 2013 at 6:28 pm |
    • JWT

      Whilw you can believe all that stuff you want to HS it means nothign toother people and there is no reason ever that it should mean anything. The bible does not apply to other people unless they want it to.

      May 4, 2013 at 6:46 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Observer, the tattoos spoken about in scriptures are for those people who lived in Biblical times, cutting themselves, then tattooing their bodies over the death of a loved one. P.S. the people these scriptures told about were not believers at the time of the writings.

      May 4, 2013 at 6:52 pm |
    • Science

      hey Russ..............url cool science !

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/29/new-film-examines-science-vs-religion/#comments

      May 4, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Translation of HS's post: HS has "LOSER" tattooed on her ass and needs an excuse for it.

      May 4, 2013 at 6:55 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      JWT, you're wrong. Jesus Christ died for all our sins. The reason you refuse to believe is the beginning of how He will judge you and your works.

      May 4, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Nonsense as usual, HS. You have no clue what happens when we die. There is no evidence for a "heaven" or a "hell," and there's no evidence that anything you believe is accurate at all.

      If there's some god that thinks you're the best, he's an idiot.

      May 4, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • JWT

      You miss the point entirely HS Your god is not my god. That is a fact you can take to the bank. Your fake god cannot sit in judgement of me ever it's impossible. You are seriously deluded if you believe otherwise.

      May 4, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Russ.

      1) Nope, sure don't.
      2) I would be impressed by dead people coming back from the dead, I have no reason to think it has ever actually happened. (please don't trot out NDE's, it is called 'near death' for a reason)
      3) No it does not resonate, nor does it make sense, nor is it a moral concept.

      I am not dying "for" anything. There are things I would die for. Christianity has a fascination with death, it is really kind of creepy.

      "or do you find yourself more like Tom Brady... who when 60 Minutes asked him w/ all his success, fame, fortune, romance, family, etc., what had he learned... and he said: "there's got to be more than this. i mean, this can't be all it's cracked up to be."

      Maybe there is, maybe there isn't....but I don't find Christianity actually answers anything...it claims to....but it is a lie....not that you don't believe it but claiming knowledge you don't have is lying...

      May 4, 2013 at 8:03 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The real Tom, you posted "Nonsense as usual, HS. You have no clue what happens when we die. There is no evidence for a "heaven" or a "hell," and there's no evidence that anything you believe is accurate at all. If there's some god that thinks you're the best, he's an idiot."

      Answer: You nonbelievers prove what we will not miss when we die the physical death and dwell with Jesus for eternity. While you, fervently work towards the 2nd death.

      May 4, 2013 at 8:16 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      JWT, you posted "You miss the point entirely HS Your god is not my god. That is a fact you can take to the bank. Your fake god cannot sit in judgement of me ever it's impossible. You are seriously deluded if you believe otherwise."

      Answer: JWT, what part of knowing nonbelievers follow the lies of Satan do you think I'm deluded about? Satan is who you follow. Satan is a liar and deceives the entire world. Jesus Christ will judge all.

      May 4, 2013 at 8:24 pm |
    • JWT

      Grow up HS there are other choices in life than your versions of a god and satan.

      May 4, 2013 at 8:39 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Cheesemaker:
      1) on what basis do you discount his claim?

      2) I'm not a fan of NDE books. I really think if Lazarus didn't feel the need to write one (and he would have been the definitive example), why do so many other Christians (among others) advocate this?
      besides, I'm not speaking merely about resuscitation (in which one must die again), but permanent resurrection – which is what Jesus' eyewitnesses claimed they saw after his death. but that leads us down the path toward discussing the eyewitness accounts... which feels strangely familiar...

      two great scholarly resources on the topic:
      Richard Bauckham's "Jesus & the Eyewitnesses"
      NT Wright's "The Resurrection of the Son of God"

      3) yes, if you lack awareness of how sin is actively enslaving you (as Jesus says in Jn.8:34), then that wouldn't fit your categories.

      4) as for being obsessed with death, check out Ernest Becker's "the Denial of Death." Pulitzer Prize winner for pointing out how those who claim *not* to be obsessed with death are actually thoroughly obsessed with it.

      case in point: we are the first society in history to attempt to put all our meaning, significance & life into SOLELY the immediate (for lack of a belief in the afterlife), and – as such – the need for creating one's own significance is crushing us. we have to cram all our hope for happiness, all our longings, all our needs into this one life... or fail?

      5) the lie is attempting to explain your own existence w/o referent to something greater than yourself.
      you didn't create yourself – yet you exist. what now?
      ignore that *miraculous* reality – or pursue it to know your purpose?

      May 4, 2013 at 9:15 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      JWT, you posted "Grow up HS there are other choices in life than your versions of a god and satan."

      Answer: In other words JWT, there has to be other choices in life where sins aren't easily uncovered.

      May 4, 2013 at 9:59 pm |
    • The real Tom

      "You nonbelievers prove what we will not miss when we die the physical death and dwell with Jesus for eternity."

      Jesus must be a masochist if he desires the company of azzholes like you, HS. Why would anyone want to spend eternity in your company?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:05 pm |
    • JWT

      You have a personal definition of sin HS. It's not for other people to follow nor are others actions sins in their own version of life or religion. Thee is no reason for anyone to follow your version of sin. You do not set the standards for all people. Nor should you.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:30 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Russ

      1) On the basis that there is no reason to believe it. People shouldn't accept all claims until they are proven wrong, we should reject claims until proven true. Faith is not a virtue.

      2) It's not eyewitness accounts, it's hearsay of hearsay. There is no non-biased account of the event actually happening. It should sound familier. BTW, in court eyewitness testimony is the least reliable, I am not going rely on eyewitness testimony (not that we actually have it anyway) of primitive, ignorant people for my belief. You wouldn't apply the same rational to any other non-religious belief.

      Scholars or not they have a "dog in the fight", a god that truly wanted to be known would not require apologists or rely on the absurdity that is the bible. No one knows what Jesus exactly said. There are scholars who make that point as well. A god would know that such "evidence" is not reliable and I would expect better. Just because you think you can rationalize all the immorality and inconsistacies doesn't therefore make it true.

      3) That is part of the claim, you can't demonstrate "sin", or your god is actually real, saying it is and citing the "effects" of sin as proof of the claim is what I like to call "cult logic" in that accepting the invalid premise is required. I don't accept the premise.

      4) I read the Wikipedia page on the book. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Of course death is important, that wasn't my point. It is the obsession with claiming answers to questions you don't have and the religion that was built around it.

      "case in point: we are the first society in history to attempt to put all our meaning, significance & life into SOLELY the immediate (for lack of a belief in the afterlife), and – as such – the need for creating one's own significance is crushing us. we have to cram all our hope for happiness, all our longings, all our needs into this one life... or fail?"

      If you can't demonstrate that the afterlife is real, why should I put significance of my real life in it? Once again, acceptance of the premise does not make it true. On a personal note I am far happier with " I don't know" as an answer than the false pretension that I do.

      5) The lie is claiming answers you don't have. Just because it makes you feel better to think something "greater than yourself" gives you some ill defined purpose doesn't make it less deluded.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Cheesemaker:

      1) so, we should "reject all claims until proven true"? what about that claim itself? it fails its own litmus test. you can't prove that very claim, and yet it's your primary basis for testing facts. it's self-refuting. you are beginning with an unprovable point of circular logic WHILE using that unprovable, circular basis to criticize other unprovable, circular points of departure.

      2-3) read Richard Bauckham's book... heck, even just read a decent scholarly review of it. the things you are saying ("hearsay of hearsay") ignores volumes of *evidence* presented there.

      as for not having a 'dog in the fight,' that's preposterous. if Jesus is who he said he was, it changes everything – for you personally, for existence, etc. to claim to be unbiased in the question at hand it to be naive about the implications of the very thing a supposed 'scholar' is studying. there is no 'unbiased' approach here. as Ann Rice once noted: she's yet to meet the Elizabethan scholar who simply hates the primary subject of one's own field of study, yet a significant portion of biblical scholars seem to hate Jesus. why?

      4) your assumption at the outset is that revelation is not possible and/or there is no transcendent. otherwise you would not be able to say "claiming answers to questions you don't have." your bias at the outset doesn't even really entertain the question. it's a self-fulfilling prophecy – and the entire debate is in your presupposition.

      5) ironically, you are making the same claim from the opposite extreme – yet ironically for you, you are precluding the very possibility we are discussion (namely, that something 'greater than yourself' might exist and might even speak into our existence).

      May 6, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
  3. Observer

    Church policies:

    Church members who are commiting ADULTERY by divorcing and remarrying (unless your spouse already was an adulterer) – no problem; you are welcome here

    Church members who get tattoos which were specifically forbidden by God - no problem, you are welcome here.

    Leroy Butler - you are not welcome here; we don't allow sin here

    WORLD CLASS HYPOCRISY.

    May 4, 2013 at 11:44 am |
    • The real Tom

      lolly was hatched in 1930.

      May 4, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
    • Akira

      Lol??, do you know any women? Do you know anything modern? How is it you will let modern man get a pass from being the sort of spouse your idea of women should be?

      May 4, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
    • Science

      Maybe even earlier than that Tom...................again you know every thread is comedy gold on the CNN belief blog.

      Atheists to start 1-800 hotline for doubters

      By Dan Merica, CNN

      Hey HS...............you stuck in the forest/matrix and need help getting out ?

      http://www.bing.com/search?q=Hey+HS+find+T+REX+..........................you+know.............+the+one+that+goes+chomp++or%0D%0A%0D%0A1900+million+year+old+fossils+found+by+which+Great+Lake+HS+%3F&form=HPNTDF&pc=HPNTDF&src=IE-SearchBox

      Ex-NFL player's support for gay NBA player apparently costs him ...

      religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/02/ex-nfl-players-support-for-gay...

      May 02, 2013 · ... programming DOES NOT guarantee you know the ... Tiny 1,900 million-year-old fossils from rocks ... One from oeverseas Russ ! Chomp ...

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/04/atheists-to-start-1-800-hotline/#comments

      June 11, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
  4. Bostontola

    Does Jesus love gay people?

    May 4, 2013 at 11:43 am |
    • Bostontola

      lol??,
      Gay people in general.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Bostontola

      lol??,
      Lol.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • The real Tom

      "we don't have to believe in Jesus anymore."

      You lying sack of poo, nobody said that in a twitter feed. Why are you so willfully stupid and dishonest?

      May 4, 2013 at 11:59 am |
    • Science

      Doogie is a troll pouning sand !!!

      May 4, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Science

      Oops............pounding sand !!

      May 4, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
    • Science

      lol?? .............thanks for helping !!!

      May 4, 2013 at 12:53 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Matthew 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

      Amen.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:01 pm |
  5. Bostontola

    When this story first came out, I thought there must be another side to it. But the church hasn't tried to tell their story in the last few days so Mr. Butler's account is all we have. Any church that cancels a contract because a person showed compassion to another human being is not living by their own principles and therefore deserves no respect. Christians being hypocritical is not a surprise, many people have weak character, but for the leaders of a church to be so hypocritical, leading their members down a hateful path, is shameful.

    May 4, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • Akira

      Lol, dear, are you having problems seeing today? I've seen you ask questions a couple of times asking to clarifiy what is plainly written..."but for the leaders of a church to be so hypocritical, leading their members down a hateful path, is shameful."

      May 4, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • Bostontola

      lol??,
      It's ok to be Christian and be critical of a particular church when their leadership goes astray. It's easier for an atheist to see it, but you should be able to see it and show enough courage to say something.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:52 am |
    • Akira

      Lol??, the ones you keep asking.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:55 am |
    • Bostontola

      lol??,
      Speaking out against bad behavior is a choice. Sometimes it takes courage, but its still a choice. Whether it makes a difference only the future will reveal.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:05 am |
    • Russ

      @ Bostontola: we had this conversation on this very blog a few days ago...

      why do you think compassion requires compromising one's morality?
      as i said before, replace this hot topic with something YOU deem immoral, and reconsider the church's actions.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • Jesus freaker

      lol??,

      Maybe this will help explain it.

      20 "If a man lies se xually with a woman who is a slave, assigned to another man and not yet ransomed or given her freedom, a distinction shall be made. They shall not be put to death, because she was not free;
      21 but he shall bring his compensation to the LORD, to the entrance of the tent of meeting, a ram for a guilt offering.
      22 And the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the LORD for his sin that he has committed, and he shall be forgiven for the sin that he has committed.

      Leviticus

      Perhaps not?

      May 4, 2013 at 11:34 am |
    • Bostontola

      .

      May 4, 2013 at 11:35 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Immorality has nothing to do with consensual s3x between abults.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:40 am |
    • Bostontola

      Russ,
      I don't understand your question. I don't think compassion is immoral. The church must think compassion is immoral since it used the morals clause to get out of the contract.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:40 am |
    • Science

      Where do morals come from?

      By Kelly Murray, CNN

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments

      May 4, 2013 at 11:46 am |
    • Jesus freaker

      as i said before, replace this hot topic with something YOU deem immoral, and reconsider the church's actions.

      Russ,

      That preacher, like you, is a Bible buffeteer. Do you think this preacher wears clothing with two kinds of material?

      "You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.

      Has this preacher called for the execution of Collins? The Bible says that he should be put to death. Why enforce one Bible law and not another? Because it would be against our secular laws? We have no law that prevents a church from preaching hate and prejudice so carry on.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • The real Tom

      Doogie the Dolt says: What would have been hypocritical would be for the church to "endorse" a speaker
      presenting a philosophy that runs in opposition to the church's teachings.

      You idiot. The guy was asked to speak about bullying. Is that "in oppositions to the church's teachings," you putz? Or did you fail to read the story and assume he was going to talk about being gay?

      Dumbfvck.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • The real Tom

      "Gay behavior is considered very bad form."

      What is "gay behavior," lolly? How is different from what many straights do?

      You are dumber than a bag of hammers.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • Rob

      The church was right.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:59 am |
    • The real Tom

      No, Rob. The church was wrong.

      May 4, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • tallulah13

      The church had the right to cancel. And we have the right to call them out on their indoctrinated hatred and bigotry.

      May 4, 2013 at 1:02 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Judging Is Believing.

      Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? (Luke 12:57)

      What is right?

      The statutes of the Lord are right (Psalm 19:8)

      Amen.

      May 4, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • biggles

      What hatred?

      May 4, 2013 at 8:38 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Opposite of hatred is Jesus' love for all.

      Matthew 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

      Amen.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:04 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Then why are some of his most ardent followers hateful sh!ts like you?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:08 pm |
  6. PeterVN

    A great blog quote that applies to 'faith':

    Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, the cowardly, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them.

    And don't forget to click on a few ads so CNN can make some cash...

    May 4, 2013 at 9:52 am |
    • Ben

      You said it, bro.

      May 4, 2013 at 9:53 am |
  7. Dyslexic doG

    Let's talk about Horus from 3000 BC (Jesus is a copy of Horus), or Attis from 1500 BC (Jesus is a copy of Attis), or Mithra from 1200BC (Jesus is a copy of Mithra), or Krishna from 900BC (Jesus is a copy of Krishna), or Dionysus from 500 BC (Jesus is a copy of Dionysus) .... or any of the DOZENS of other gods predating the bronze age book character Jesus who were born of a virgin on Dec 25, traveled as a teacher, had 12 disciples, performed miracles, was killed and lay dead for 3 days and was resurrected.

    You Christians are not even original! What a joke!

    May 4, 2013 at 8:11 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      Not at all but they had to make themselves look good to get the converts.

      May 4, 2013 at 8:20 am |
    • Ben

      Yeah even the virgin birth bit isn't original. Stolen from earlier myths. What a stinker.

      Too funny what Christians have bought into -just rewarmed stolen fairy tales.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • Ken

      Austin
      Are you doubting that the ancients believed in gods like Horus just as passionately as you believe in Christ?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:11 am |
  8. Anna

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKxk9TvyJrs
    ;;

    May 4, 2013 at 6:03 am |
  9. CNN visitor

    A church bullies a man in to pulling out of speaking out against bullying. The definition of irony, I believe.

    May 4, 2013 at 4:15 am |
    • Akira

      That the definition of irony is a church bullies a man in to pulling out of speaking out against bullying.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:42 am |
    • The real Tom

      lolly, you never had a thought in your life. Those are just brain farts. Try Beano.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:41 am |
  10. Mark Faucette

    The fact that the church apologized to Mr. Butler and thanked him for not revealing its name tells me that the church is too embarrassed by this action to own up to it. That's shameful.

    May 4, 2013 at 4:07 am |
    • Science

      lol?? loolk in the mirrior ?

      E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas.............numbers do not lie or sin !

      SPLAT !!!

      May 4, 2013 at 5:59 am |
    • Science

      Oops................. look

      May 4, 2013 at 6:00 am |
    • Science

      Humans = civil laws and the law will take care of it !

      May 4, 2013 at 7:52 am |
    • Akira

      lol?? says:
      What’s shameful?

      The fact that the church apologized to Mr. Butler and thanked him for not revealing its name tells me that the church is too embarrassed by this action to own up to it. That’s shameful.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:48 am |
  11. Bootyfunk

    @Bootyfunk "what would be proof? writings from reliable outside sources. for instance, there is no Roman record showing Pontius Pilate having Jesus executed."
    @Chad "There are no Roman records of Pontius Pilate himself existing.
    You didnt know that did you 🙂
    If there are no existing Roman records of Pilate, a governor, why would there exist any of a little known preacher executed under his rule?
    *** Hahaha, yes, i did know that. which only proves my point more - the bible is full of fict.itious characters. Perhaps the right answer is neither existed? The Romans were great record keepers, seems unlikely there would be no record of Pontius Pilate at all, considering his rank and status. A governor, but not even a deed? Not even one executive order signed by Pilate? Doubtful. Thanks for adding to my points, though. 🙂

    May 4, 2013 at 3:23 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      @Bootyfunk "not only was there no "life image" of Jesus made during his life, the bible doesn't say a single word about what he looked like"
      @Chad "The bible doesnt really say anything about the way ANYONE looked. It is not relevant.
      There are no life images of ANYONE from that time period (except emperors).
      This may shock you, but the first camera was not invented until 1840.
      *** This may shock you - there are other methods of recording an image aside from cameras. there are plenty of paintings and sculptures of people other than emperors - artists, noblemen, champions, political figures, etc. do your homework.

      May 4, 2013 at 3:23 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      @Bootyfunk " Jesus supposedly did some pretty amazing things: healing people with a touch, send 2K pigs off a cliff, bringing people back from the dead, coming back from the dead himself, etc. – seems odd other people didn't write about these 'miracles'."
      @Chad "ummm...
      they did
      see the Gospels, letters of Paul, Peter, etc.. They were all authored by independent people, many eye witnesses.
      *** ummm... jesus was dead when 2 out of the 4 authors of the gospels were born. who are these "many eye witnesses"? oh, paul said there were witnesses in his story - so that's proof. lol. please name these witnesses instead of talking about them va.guely. you may not realize most of the bible was written centuries after Jesus supposedly lived and died. it's like you saying a story you heard about a guy doing magic from 1792 - but you're definitely sure it's true.

      May 4, 2013 at 3:23 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      Using the Bible as partial biographical evidence of Jesus is not as completely insane or wall-bangingly circular as it may first seem. Although the gospels are generally published in one compendium known as The Bible, they are separate doc uments and almost certainly were written by separate authors.
      *** Yes, and the OT doesn't mention Jesus, so those fairy tales have nothing to do with this argument (though most of those are myths as well). Chad says the bible proves the bible is real - that's really funny. that's proof to you? so the Cat in the Hat is proof in itself that cats really do live in hats? try harder.

      Chad - please provide REAL proof, sources outside the bible. Jesus raised people from the dead, right? he had mult.itudes of people coming out to hear him speak? surely someone must have wrote about it besides a couple of Christians?

      May 4, 2013 at 3:24 am |
  12. oceanluvver2

    don't worry leroy, that church is not a house that the Lord would be proud of. You will find another place to spread your message. thank you for supporting collins.

    May 4, 2013 at 3:06 am |
  13. Bootyfunk

    HeavenSent

    Booty, you posted "@dino, the bible is the rule book of christians, right? the bible says to KILL g.ays (among others). so i'm being hateful by pointing out that the christian guide for good living says to murder innocent people? that's funny.

    i'm glad christians don't follow the bible closely any longer – more like Christianity Light – but those words are in your book. you are actually being a bad christian by not following the bible and killing all g.ay people (also non-virgin brides, disobedient children and anyone working the weekend). i'm glad you're not a devout christian, of course – but that's what it is – you don't do what the bible tells you to do."

    Answer: Those scriptures you complain about were written to the Jews that were under His law.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Real Answer: They are in your Christian bible, too. Sorry, can't get out of what your rule book says. Your 10 commandments are in the OT, too - still follow those? Jesus himself says you cannot drop a single letter from the OT. Try again to explain why the bible says to murder g.ay people - and explain why you don't do what your God tells you to do.

    May 4, 2013 at 3:00 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      it's true - the bible is pollution.

      May 4, 2013 at 5:40 am |
  14. ItsAllGood

    It turned out ok. Jason Collins came out of the closet now that his career is over. LeRoy voiced his thoughts and supported him and then the church did what they had to do. Its all good on all sides, and keep in mind its a church, they abide by what they interpret to be God's rules or laws. no harm done by any side on this.

    May 4, 2013 at 2:57 am |
    • sam stone

      the church revealed itself

      May 4, 2013 at 11:06 am |
  15. Livilla

    Bravo! He is certainly more of a christian than that pathetic excusemfor a "pastor".

    May 4, 2013 at 2:42 am |
  16. rswon

    Way to go Leroy. I'm glad you stood your ground in support of Collins.

    May 4, 2013 at 1:55 am |
  17. Robert

    Butler is sort of stupid if he thought he could bless what God calls sin and still be invited to a Christian church.

    May 3, 2013 at 11:17 pm |
    • Tamsyn

      Where did he say he "blessed" anything?

      May 3, 2013 at 11:21 pm |
    • Athy

      You're beyond help, Robert. Do us all a favor and don't have any children.

      May 3, 2013 at 11:22 pm |
    • Observer

      Why not? The church is likely FULL of sinners who are hypocrites.

      May 3, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
    • Kate

      Doesn't it also say in the bible to Love Thy Neighbor? And what about that oldie but goodie, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." So glad I don't attend church anymore. Too many self-righteous hypocrites.

      May 3, 2013 at 11:51 pm |
    • .

      Moron.

      May 4, 2013 at 12:34 am |
    • Beefburger

      We are ALL sinners. WWJD? Love the sinner hate the sin. "Go and sin no more."

      May 4, 2013 at 12:57 am |
    • WWDD?

      Darwin would tell the pastor to pound sand.

      May 4, 2013 at 2:32 am |
    • sam stone

      have another drink, austin

      May 4, 2013 at 11:08 am |
  18. Mark

    Butler donates his speaking fees to charity.

    May 3, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
  19. Nodack

    Good for him.

    May 3, 2013 at 10:12 pm |
  20. jim atmad

    St Dunstan's Episcopal Church in Madison will have Mr Butler at some future date to give the anti-bullying talk that he was bullied out of presenting.

    I need to pay my credit card and electric bill this weekend. I'll write an extra check to St Dunstan's to support them, even though I'm not a member there.

    May 3, 2013 at 9:58 pm |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.