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May 2nd, 2013
12:52 PM ET

Ex-NFL player's support for gay NBA player apparently costs him church appearance

By Dan Merica, CNN
[twitter-follow screen_name='DanMericaCNN']

Washington (CNN) – LeRoy Butler, a former safety for the Green Bay Packers, is one of many professional athletes to tweet support for Jason Collins, the NBA player who came out as gay this week.

“Congrats to Jason Collins,” Butler tweeted April 29, the day Collins came out in a Sports Illustrated cover story.

But Butler says the four-word tweet cost him a speaking appearance at a Wisconsin church.

He was scheduled to speak at the church (whose name he has not revealed) about bullying and his new book, "The LeRoy Butler Story: From Wheelchair to the Lambeau Leap." That was until the church, according to Butler, told him he was no longer welcome because of his tweet in support of Collins.

"The pastor called me and that's when we got into the old, the whole religion thing about gay people and things of that nature and the conversation just went back and forth for us a couple of minutes," Butler told Anderson Cooper on Thursday.

After the exchange with the pastor, Butler took to twitter to express his frustration.

Butler later tweeted that “some parents went to the church and complained about my tweet” supporting Collins. The church, according to Butler, said that if the football player apologized, he would be allowed to speak.

"They basically said this, if you apologize, ask God for forgiveness and remove the tweet, you'll be able to do this speaking engagement with the kids," he said. "I won't do that. That's taking my dignity and respect away."

He continued: "I told the pastor, blame it on my mom because my mom brought me up to love everybody."

Butler recently tweeted that the church apologized for the incident and thanked him “for not releasing the church name.”

Butler played 11 years, from 1990 to 2001, with the Packers and helped them win a Super Bowl in 1997. He was a four-time All-Pro selection, the highest honor for a year of work in the NFL, and is credited with inventing the Lambeau Leap, the iconic touchdown celebration in which a Packer leaps into the Lambeau Field stands to celebrate with fans.

As for Butler's stance on gay athletes in professional sports, he said they have "support from straight guys like me that won't judge them."

"If we win a Super Bowl ring, I don't care who you bring to the ring ceremony, I just want to win the ring," Butler said. "That's what it's all about. ... Isn't that what it's all about? Winning the championship? Not who is in my bed when I turn the lights out."

Since retiring, Butler has been active in the Green Bay community, and his Facebook page chronicles appearances and speeches he has given to churches in the area.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Belief • Same-sex marriage

soundoff (3,002 Responses)
  1. oOo

    This incident is not at all surprising to me. Christianity has always been conflicted – certain issues make that conflict more obvious. One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over four million members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage. Thomas Jefferson hit the nail on the head over 200 years ago:

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    (from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

    Some claim that Christianity and science are not incompatible, yet we find many who continue to ignore science on the issue of homosexuality. Is the problem poor education, steadfastness to one's own flavor of biblical interpretation, or both?

    The following is long, but note the quote from Professor MIchael King below in the section on psychology.
    =========================================================
    Psychology

    The American Psychological Association states "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people", and says most people's sexual orientation is determined at an early age. Research into how sexual orientation in males may be determined by genetic or other prenatal factors plays a role in political and social debates about homosexuality, and also raises concerns about genetic profiling and prenatal testing."

    Professor Michael King states: "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."

    The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:

    "Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice."

    Biology

    The following is from the article:

    Homosexuality ultimately a result of gene regulation, researchers find (12/11/2012 – LiveScience)

    [ The search for a "gay gene" may be off-target, new research finds. Another process called epigenetics that switches genes on and off may explain why homosexuality runs in families.

    Epigenetics are heritable changes caused by factors other than DNA. Instead of traits getting passed down through the genes, epigenetic change happens because of the way genes are regulated, or turned on and off.

    These genetic regulators may be the reason homosexuality persists in nature despite the fact that gay people are less likely to reproduce, suggests the new study published in the journal The Quarterly Review of Biology.

    "These things have evolved because they're good for the parents, but they sometimes, not [with] high frequency, but sometimes carry over" into offspring, study researcher William Rice, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, told LiveScience. In a male fetus, Rice and his colleagues write, an epigenetic change that benefited the mother may lead to "feminization" of sexual preference — homo- or bisexuality. The same may be true for epigenetic changes passed down by dad to a female fetus. (The terms feminization and masculinization of sexual preference refer to sexual orientation only — not to physical or personality traits of the offspring.)

    The findings add to past research suggesting gay men haven't died out, because female relatives of gay men tend to have more children on average than other females. The study researchers specifically found that two genes passed on through the maternal line could produce this effect.

    Hormones, epigenetics and orientation

    Rice and his colleagues focused on epi-marks, which are molecular changes that act like temporary "switches" to turn genes on and off. If a gene is a blueprint, the epi-mark is the construction foreman who makes sure the product gets built. An epi-mark also determines when, where and how much a gene is expressed, according to the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis.

    These molecular switches are usually erased very early in the developmental process, but they can be passed down from generation to generation, too, Rice said.

    Some epi-marks are particularly important during fetal development, when they promote normal physical development in the sexes despite natural variations in testosterone during pregnancy. Researchers know that fetal exposure to too much testosterone can masculinize the genitals, brain or behavior of a genetically female fetus. Likewise, too little testosterone can make a genetically male fetus more feminized.

    But here's the catch: There's lots of overlap between the levels of testosterone male and female fetuses get exposed to. That means there must be another side to the story, Rice and his colleagues wrote.

    That side appears to be epigenetics, Rice said.

    "Early in development, we think these epi-marks are laid down so that girl fetuses will be relatively insensitive to testosterone and male fetuses will be relatively sensitive to testosterone," Rice said.

    Biological behavior

    Thus, if an epi-mark that kept a mother from getting exposed to high testosterone in development gets passed on to her son — the opposite sex — it could desensitize him to testosterone, contributing to his sexual preference for men. Similarly, if a male-specific epi-mark from dad gets passed to a daughter, it could "masculinize" her sexual preference, making her more interested in women.

    These findings could explain why twin studies show that homosexuality runs in families, but no "gay gene" can be found, Rice said. In identical twins, there's about a 20 percent chance that if one twin is gay, the other will be too. If genetic change were responsible for homosexuality, you'd expect a much higher match, Rice said. Epigenetics, however, can explain the heritability without the need for a specific genetic change.

    The hypothesis could be tested by examining epigenetic marks in parents of kids with gay versus straight offspring, Rice said. There are, of course, concerns that this knowledge could be used by parents who want to avoid gay offspring, Rice said, but that concern already exists around certain hormonal conditions in utero, which are known to contribute to an increased chance of offspring being lesbians.

    "That cat's already out of the bag," Rice said. He added that an understanding of the biological underpinnings of homosexuality could help emphasize that same-sex behavior is not "unnatural."

    "In fact, it's a major part of the natural world," Rice said. Fourteen percent of Western gulls raise chicks in female-female pairs, he pointed out. And 8 percent of male sheep show zero interest in fertile ewes, but get sexually excited by other rams. ]
    ========================================================

    Whenever... preachers, instead of a lesson in religion, put [their congregation] off with a discourse on the Copernican system, on chemical affinities, on the construction of government, or the characters or conduct of those administering it, it is a breach of contract, depriving their audience of the kind of service for which they are salaried, and giving them, instead of it, what they did not want, or, if wanted, would rather seek from better sources in that particular art of science.

    (Thomas Jefferson)

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    (James Madison, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution, framer of the first ten Amendments; from A Memorial and Remonstrance as delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785.)

    May 5, 2013 at 9:49 am |
    • Science

      Free speech helps educate the masses................POLITICIANS too !

      Where do morals come from?

      By Kelly Murray, CNN

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments

      Gravity is not up for debate ! ............E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas..........that do not lie or sin !!!..........

      BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !

      Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet

      Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130425142250.htm

      Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

      The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

      The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

      Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

      April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |

      May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |

      Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418104324.htm

      And NO ANGELS the pope KICKED them OFF the TEAM last year !

      From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

      the wrong path is Adam and Eve !

      Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

      Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

      No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US

      Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.

      No god(s) needed................... Old. DNA works..................also catches crooks !

      Ancient DNA Reveals Europe's Dynamic Genetic History

      Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423134037.htm

      Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute

      http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/.../page4

      Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...

      Good stuff !

      The fact...............the earth is to old for this nonsemse ! Time to EVOLVE !

      Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

      Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

      For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !

      Where do morals come from?

      By Kelly Murray, CNN

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/

      Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.

      Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’

      Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
      bears his name as the “God particle.”

      http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/08/atheist-prof-peter-higgs-stop-calling-higgs-bosen-the-god-particle/

      Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
      Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/28/pope-praises-science-but-insists-god-created-world/

      Science

      Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
      By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/heaven-is-a-fairy-story-scientist-stephen-hawking-says/

      April 7th, 2012

      08:32 PM ET

      The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/the-jesus-debate-man-vs-myth/comment-page-137/#comment-2281915

      Make sure to read comments

      April 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |

      Breaking News

      NASA: Three planets found are some of best candidates so far for habitable worlds outside our solar system.

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/planet-discovery/index.html

      NASA: Mars could have supported life

      Star Dust we are

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWdU_px9ApE

      Holy Hallucinations 35

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XTCRdC8Dlo

      The ORIGIN story is bullsh-it...............so is the bible............... nasty !

      From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

      Scientists have unearthed the first direct signs of cheesemaking, at a site in Poland that dates back 7,500 years.

      Human Evolution

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2cHumanevo.shtml

      BBC. Planet of the Apemen. Battle for Earth 1. Ho-mo Erectus

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUliLKSJ4bQ&feature=player_embedded

      BACKFILL on E =mc2.....

      Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'

      By Jessica Ravitz, CNN

      Decades before atheist scientist and author Richard Dawkins called God a "delusion," one world-renowned physicist – Albert Einstein – was weighing in on faith matters with his own strong words.

      “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/category/culture-science/

      May 4, 2013 at 6:47 am | Report abuse |

      Cheech & Chong's History of 420

      http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/3b1508d1f0/cheech-chong-s-history-of-420?rel=player&playlist=341944

      All cults...........creationists, ID believers and devil cults.................

      The fact...............the earth is to old ...........time to EVOLVE !.

      Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

      Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

      Dover Trial Transcripts............................................. FACTS.

      Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.

      http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/intelligentdesigncase/dovertrialtranscripts.htm

      Education works for children

      Earth From Space

      Detailed satellite images reveal the web of connections that sustain life on Earth. Aired February 13, 2013 on PBS

      Program Description

      "Earth From Space" is a groundbreaking two-hour special that reveals a spectacular new space-based vision of our planet. Produced in extensive consultation with NASA scientists, NOVA takes data from earth-observing satellites and transforms it into dazzling visual sequences, each one exposing the intricate and surprising web of forces that sustains life on earth. Viewers witness how dust blown from the Sahara fertilizes the Amazon; how a vast submarine "waterfall" off Antarctica helps drive ocean currents around the world; and how the sun's heating up of the southern Atlantic gives birth to a colossally powerful hurricane. From the microscopic world of water molecules vaporizing over the ocean to the magnetic field that is bigger than Earth itself, the show reveals the astonishing beauty and complexity of our dynamic planet.

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/earth-from-space.html

      February 16, 2013 at 7:18 am | Report abuse |

      Peace

      May 5, 2013 at 9:55 am |
    • Duke

      The key part to this article is that these studies don't definitively proof anything. Nor do these scientist have anything remotely clear. Instead, this is their belief. They are acting on faith that there "might" be a on off mechanism. Funny how when Christians use faith they are ridiculed but when others put faith in science that is based only on an unproven, proposed theory with no actual proof, that is justified.

      Look, if there was an on-off that ran in families, why do studies with identical twins reveal that many times if one twin is gay the other isn't. They have the same genetic make-up and the same family history.

      What this study points toward is that something genetic might be a factor, as long with environmental influences. Those influences could exposure to other elements, associations with different people, and even a changing culture that now wants to openly embrace this behavior.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      No big surprise that Einstein did not know God to be able to love Him. The Jews were the first to be deceived by Satan's children.

      Matthew 23:29-36
      Matthew 27:20-26
      T itus 1:10-16
      1 S amual 8:4-9
      A cts 9:10-23
      Revelation 2:8-11
      Revelation 3:7-13

      Amen.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • Science

      No matter what HS says........... it is BS to the max.

      May 5, 2013 at 5:18 pm |
    • biggles

      Lol

      May 11, 2013 at 8:39 pm |
  2. Reality

    The Apostles' Creed 2013 (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
    ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen
    (References used are available upon request.)

    May 5, 2013 at 8:01 am |
  3. Adrienne D

    Good for you LeRoy! I'm glad he told that church no!! I'm a Christian and that church's actions are deplorable. You see Christians, this is why people don't like us. Tell those nosy church mom's to get off the Internet looking for trouble. I love the part where he said my mom taught me to love everyone. Ha!! But on a serious note, the "moral clause"? Really Pastor?!? How about what you're probably doing behind closed doors? But the church wouldn't dare open that can of worms. And why aren't they loud and proud about rescinding his offer? If they feel so holy then why not shout from the rooftop that they told him he couldn't speak based on his support of a fellow athlete? Why are you thanking him for not releasing the churches name? You should be proud of your intolerance right church? Sickens me. All these people walking around claiming Christ this and Christ that, they don't act anywhere near the way Christ did. The church's name as well as the pastor's should be released! Pastor, come on tv and explain to America how you and your flock can be so hateful but preach the message of a loving savior. We're listening...

    May 5, 2013 at 7:58 am |
    • Science

      Adrienne D...................Morals ...........they donot come from the bible !!!

      Where do morals come from?

      By Kelly Murray, CNN

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments

      May 5, 2013 at 9:14 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Adrienne, either you're a nonbeliever posing as a Christian or you need to read a few scriptures on how to be a salty Christian.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
  4. Gnn

    Gnn – where being gay is news!

    May 5, 2013 at 7:06 am |
  5. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    May 5, 2013 at 6:58 am |
    • Observer

      Yep. Ask all the people who died horrible deaths while praying.

      May 5, 2013 at 9:09 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Not as horrible as dying on a cross for everyone's sins.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      May 10, 2013 at 11:59 am |
    • Really?

      "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things"

      That's why the data, has shown that atheists have happier and healthier lives than conservative Christians. Your post is built on a lie!

      May 10, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
  6. Missed Calling

    Chad. Faith is the art of believing in fantasy. Faith is the belief in something for which there is no proof. Belief is all you have Chad. Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true. So your faith and belief is all you have, your constantly claimed and rejected "proofs" are just fantasy (supernatural), apologetics or down fight lies. Keep trying though there maybe someone out there you will convince, for the rest of us ROTFLMAO.

    May 5, 2013 at 6:49 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Nonbelievers have faith that Satan will follow through with the lies he tells you.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
    • The real Tom

      HS, you're the resident expert on lying.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
  7. the AnViL™

    "Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homopho bic individual is either unaware of or denies."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014

    says a lot about the people speaking out against all the gayness.

    rotflmao

    May 5, 2013 at 3:14 am |
    • Science

      the AnViL™....................thiest............chad..............does not like this !

      Free speech helps educate the masses

      Gravity is not up for debate !

      BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !

      Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet

      Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130425142250.htm

      Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

      The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

      The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

      Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

      April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |

      May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |

      May 5, 2013 at 5:16 am |
    • Science

      And the THEY seem to NOT be able to read the truth !!!

      Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.

      Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’

      Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
      bears his name as the “God particle.”

      http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/08/atheist-prof-peter-higgs-stop-calling-higgs-bosen-the-god-particle/

      May 5, 2013 at 5:24 am |
  8. No Fairy Tales, mythology or stupidity. The time is now.

    No Superstition, mythology or stupidity. The time is now.
    I am planning a nation-wide ‘million man/woman" march. I want to make history and strike while the iron’s hot. We will be Atheists, LBGT's and anyone else who wants to support the cause or feels discriminated against. “We will walk hand in hand and put the homophobes, Atheist haters and dirty lobbyists and politicians in their place.

    It is time. It is our generation. We must take back government. We must be powerful and watch them fall from grace. Our talent will be on display in every major city possible. Oratorical, art, music, painting, come and show your stuff while we both weep and celebrate.

    The most important thing is for you people who are ashamed to get off your asses and tell the world who you are. This is our world too and I for one want it back. Get out of the damn closet. We need all of your skills and talents! Lawyers, Doctors, Teachers, Trash Men, Musicians, Cashiers, Cooks, Football Players, Scientists…everyone. Even your kids. Let’s get them off on the right foot and teach them truth and activism. We must not let the religious loons get in their heads.

    Planning and staging can start right here on the blog and then we can go from there. Let’s make news. Let’s make history. Look for CS whenever you want to talk. I am ready to do this thing. We can make a difference.

    P.S. Forgive me for posting this from time to time, I would like a wide audience. CS

    May 5, 2013 at 2:06 am |
    • SImran

      Your post spews the same hatred and bigotry against which I as an atheist stand up. So, you really do not get my vote. No one is here TO TEACH anyone anything. The process of learning anything starts from within, not without.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:16 am |
    • No Fairy Tales, mythology or stupidity. The time is now.

      SImran

      You are completely irrelevant.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:09 am |
    • the AnViL™

      SImran – as an atheist you may not believe in gods.. but as a person, you're a squeamish dweeb.

      intolerance of religious bigotry is a good thing. it's perfectly OK to be intolerant of bad things, retard.

      and i agree with the top post.... you are irrelevant.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:59 am |
    • SImran

      No fairy.... & Anvil

      While it is okay to acknowledge one's atheism, and stand up against religious bigotry, it is also important to do so maintaining one's own dignity. When someone says – "Let's teach them...... or watch them fall from grace", well, I simply don't agree. You want change. Good. You want to be heard. Great. You want the government to be truly secular – I am with you. But you want an EYE FOR AN EYE – I don't come along.
      Someone wants to advertise for a protest march – the words written above don't convince me, they just put me off! Anvil, you want to resort to name calling – well, what does that make you?

      May 5, 2013 at 5:46 am |
    • HeavenSent

      No Fairy, the first million man march that took place in this country were of Christian black men.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:51 pm |
  9. Roro

    The Bible said that God would allow men to go to a reprobate ind and do evil continually. Hell was made for Satan and his Angles, but with the fall of man in the fall of man in the Garden of Eden we became the children of sin which God cant stand. Jesus died for every human being on the earth, but if you reject him and his gift then you basically tell God I'm doing this on my own, and don't need you, and your will. That's when by the desires of our own lust we live the way we want on earth, and may get by for a while, but sin always brings death, and judgment.

    Now this gay thing God loves everyone of them, but their lifestyle is contradicting to his word. Everyone man/women serves something that takes the number 1 spot in their life. It can be self, another person, or thing. God says in his word he is a jealous God and shares that spot with no one. Jesus can set all who call on him free from their bondage's.

    May 5, 2013 at 1:35 am |
    • Athy

      And you really believe this preposterous bullshit, Roro? And it's "bondages," not "bondage's." You religies always seem to be a little weak in the mind...in more than one way.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:46 am |
    • Observer

      Roro,

      When heteros no longer engage in s3xual activitives that God and Jesus condemned, then you will have credibility.

      Until then, it's all hypocrisy.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:56 am |
    • tallulah13

      There is no proof that your god, or any god for that matter, actually exists. You are simply passing judgement because you have been trained to do so. Or perhaps you simply enjoy it because it makes you feel superior. You certainly enjoy believing that a man was tortured to death so that you don't have to be responsible for your own actions, which is disturbing. I will never understand the fundamental selfishness and immorality which are the very foundations of christianity.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:11 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Tallulah, you lie. It is the nonbelievers that are selfish for not appreciating Jesus Christ.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:54 pm |
  10. the AnViL™

    it's really comical to see how all the blatantly repressed latent homosexuals fear gay people and same-sex marriage.

    most of the people who speak out against homosexuality are really the ones most aroused by it.

    the abrahamic religions are dangerous, in that they repress human nature, and in the process create really unstable people who act out in the most abhorrent ways.

    to people who aren't delusional and mentally ill – it's obvious that tolerance of religious idiocy has to end, and violently if needs be.

    enough is enough

    May 5, 2013 at 12:47 am |
    • A Conversaton

      "and violently if needs be." The true atheist mind at work. You are no different that those islamists who think the answer to life's problems is to blow something. Have a nice day.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:01 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I imagine there are quite a few bigots out there quite prepared for a fight. The targets of their bigotry, on the other hand, imagine fair play will win out, and it probably will, eventually, if no one moves toward violence. It's unfortunate that violence mostly affects people who are unprepared for it, don't want it, and aren't looking for it.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:08 am |
    • lol??

      Uumm, anvillage,
      Freud had wrong data. He and his rich pals all had wet nurses. His theories are built on a sand bar. Get with it, dude.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:10 am |
    • the AnViL™

      i am no mere atheist, or some wishy-washy confused weakling agnostic....

      i am an anti-theist.

      and one who isn't afraid to point out that often times the only way to extinguish a powerful out-of-control fire – is with an explosion.

      i'm one who isn't afraid to point out that yes, sometimes violence does solve problems. in fact, sometimes violence is the only solution.

      only frightened immature people neglect or ignore these facts.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:10 am |
    • A Conversaton

      For the record, when idiots like you and William Demuth start talking about killing Christians, I can't help but note that none of the other atheists, who purport to be so much more ethical than Christians, never come around to admonish you. The atheist mind at work.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • the AnViL™

      easy now "a conversation" – i never said a thing about killing xians....

      that was YOUR idea....

      not saying it's a bad idea.... definitely something to explore.

      May 5, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
  11. faith

    dear dorothy, as u no, i simply quoted u with fvck spelled properly and u won't post it. u don't expect us to no who controls this cesspool, true? r u a bigger idiot than t the moron and sam thew slimeball nazi terrorist?

    May 4, 2013 at 11:58 pm |
    • Athy

      Try using English next time, assuming you know (not "no") it.

      May 5, 2013 at 12:26 am |
  12. lol??

    lol??
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Wis-con-sin-ites have quite the socialist underground public servant PACK.!

    May 4, 2013 at 11:54 pm |
  13. Religion For Weak Minds

    I am glad that he stuck to his principles and refused to apologize and remove the tweet. The next step would be to remove himself completely from a religion that derives its morals from a time period that is vastly different than the present day.

    May 4, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
  14. Over 40,000 denominations of insanity

    One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over 4,000,000 members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage.

    One sect, the Westboro Baptist Church believes Americans are being killed at war because America is too kind to "fags".

    One sect believes women to be subservient, while another sect in the same denomination promotes equality between the sexes.

    One sect believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri.

    Some believe the Pope is the Anti-Christ. Some believe Obama is the Anti-Christ.

    Some believe that celibacy is the only option for certain people, or for people in certain positions. Many of the people from these same institutions advocate against abortion, but pretend not to understand the realistic benefit of the morning after pill or even basic contraception; their unrealistic wishful thinking is causing the death of many at the hands of disease.

    In the U.S. recently we learned of the head of Lutheran CMS chastising a minister of that church for participating in a joint service for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

    Conflicted right from the very beginning, Christianity continues to splinter and create more extreme divisions as time goes by, constantly subjecting others in its crossfire.

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    (Thomas Jefferson, from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

    May 4, 2013 at 10:49 pm |
    • Science

      Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

      The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

      The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

      Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

      April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |

      May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |

      May 5, 2013 at 5:49 am |
  15. Douglas

    I stand with churches that are consistent with Biblical direction.

    A Christian church has no business "affirming" any type of active gay relationship.

    That is what this issue is about.

    It is not about science, it is not about "gay rights", it is about the Christian, Biblical definition
    of human relations between a man and a woman. Attempts to throw in same gender relationships
    as consistent with Biblical practice are at best erroneous and at worst an egregious sin against God.

    Let's cut to the chase and declare that if you are a Christian you follow the Bible.

    If not, then stop trying to hijack Christianity to suit a Biblically condemned lifestyle.

    May 4, 2013 at 10:30 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Delusional nonsense. They were never asked to "affirm" anything. Make all the excuses you wish.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:32 pm |
    • mama k

      Let's cut to the chase indeed, Dougie. If the Christian definition of marriage were not tied to civil legal advantages afforded to one type of couple over another, then you might have something to scream about. But it IS tied to civil legal advantages, so guess what you have NOTHING. No one is trying to dictate who a church chooses to marry. It's only a matter of time, but get ready because gay marriage is coming and we see it happening all over the world.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • Observer

      Douglas,

      If Christians stuck with the Bible they wouldn't allow people with tattoos to speak. The church wouldn't let in people who are handicapped. Women couldn't instruct men. Slavery would still be supported.

      Why not skip all the pick and choose hypocrisy?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:43 pm |
    • Now I get it

      So you actually believe that some god has decreed that everyone who doesn't believe and love him according to the Christian faith is going to suffer for eternity in a place called hell. You actually believe that hell is real and that the vast majority of mankind is going to go there forever based upon what they believe. So if they believe the wrong thing, some loving and just god will torture them forever. Well, actually now that I typed it out, it sounds like the right thing to do. Yes, indeed I want to get on my knees and worship such a being. I hope in heaven I don't remember all the people that god created that are being tortured for eternity. That would kind of bum me out. I know lots of people who aren't Christian you see and I sure do think they are great people. Yes, I will pray to god and ask him to make me forget all of the good people in my life when I die and go to heaven for eternal bliss while they are suffering for eternity for believing the wrong thing/not believing in anything so that I don't have to feel bad.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:03 pm |
    • Austin

      Now I get it. We can delude God into the diabolical mimicry that satan produced and act like our greatest responsibility in life is not glorifying the giver and creator of life.

      This insane escape is just a preoccupation of subtle agreement with evil rejection of God.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
    • oOo

      LOL – so Austin, you God can be deluded? Wow. Diabolical mimicry is the expression used by early Xtian apologists as their best EXCUSE as to why the un-authored gospel writings look like other similar stories already known at the time.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:36 pm |
    • Austin

      Noah killed one of his nephews for writing down an omen given by the watchers. this is out of the book of Enoch, which predates genesis and possibly Job.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:40 pm |
    • Salero21

      Douglas if you keep making false claims about the Lord and the bible, God will allow the hom.os to give you butt flu.

      May 5, 2013 at 12:00 am |
    • biobraine

      "...and act like our greatest responsibility in life is not glorifying the giver and creator of life. "

      Why in the world would some all powerful all knowing creator of the universe care in any way whatsoever what we thought of it?

      May 5, 2013 at 12:32 am |
    • Yesu

      What cabn possibly predate Genesis, Austin??

      May 5, 2013 at 12:35 am |
    • tallulah13

      We all know how you feel, Dougie. You've made no secret of your hatred of homosexuality and your desire to shame and punish gays and lesbians for having the audacity to be happy. It's probably your brand of malicious ignorance that is causing people to move away from organized religion.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:23 am |
    • Science

      Doogie , Austin and sally ...........remind of fruitcake from xmas past !

      May 5, 2013 at 5:28 am |
  16. Science Assistant - Weekend Update

    Recently poster "skeptical" wrote: [ the word "behavior" leads one to believe that the scientific community and/or psychological community deems being gay a "state of mind' which is false. Both consider it a "way of life" or rather a naturally occuring matter of genetics. The church is welcome not to support those scientific facts – much the way Galileo was excommunicated for daring to reorder the planets with Earth not at the center ]

    A poster "Duke" replied: [ The only scientific evidence points to possible genetics leading to innate tendencies that are ALSO effected by environmental factors. No clear genetic link had been found. But environmental factors are conclusively found. That means it IS more of a behavior and not uncontrollable attribute. ]

    It seems that Duke has not kept up to date on current biological and psychological research and opinion on the issue. His last sentence denotes a connotation for the words "environmental factors" that do not echo what we see from the scientific community:

    =================================================

    Psychology

    The American Psychological Association states "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people", and says most people's sexual orientation is determined at an early age. Research into how sexual orientation in males may be determined by genetic or other prenatal factors plays a role in political and social debates about homosexuality, and also raises concerns about genetic profiling and prenatal testing."

    Professor Michael King states: "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."

    The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:

    "Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice."

    Biology

    The following is from the article:

    Homosexuality ultimately a result of gene regulation, researchers find (12/11/2012 – LiveScience)

    [ The search for a "gay gene" may be off-target, new research finds. Another process called epigenetics that switches genes on and off may explain why homosexuality runs in families.

    Epigenetics are heritable changes caused by factors other than DNA. Instead of traits getting passed down through the genes, epigenetic change happens because of the way genes are regulated, or turned on and off.

    These genetic regulators may be the reason homosexuality persists in nature despite the fact that gay people are less likely to reproduce, suggests the new study published in the journal The Quarterly Review of Biology.

    "These things have evolved because they're good for the parents, but they sometimes, not [with] high frequency, but sometimes carry over" into offspring, study researcher William Rice, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, told LiveScience. In a male fetus, Rice and his colleagues write, an epigenetic change that benefited the mother may lead to "feminization" of sexual preference — homo- or bisexuality. The same may be true for epigenetic changes passed down by dad to a female fetus. (The terms feminization and masculinization of sexual preference refer to sexual orientation only — not to physical or personality traits of the offspring.)

    The findings add to past research suggesting gay men haven't died out, because female relatives of gay men tend to have more children on average than other females. The study researchers specifically found that two genes passed on through the maternal line could produce this effect.

    Hormones, epigenetics and orientation

    Rice and his colleagues focused on epi-marks, which are molecular changes that act like temporary "switches" to turn genes on and off. If a gene is a blueprint, the epi-mark is the construction foreman who makes sure the product gets built. An epi-mark also determines when, where and how much a gene is expressed, according to the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis.

    These molecular switches are usually erased very early in the developmental process, but they can be passed down from generation to generation, too, Rice said.

    Some epi-marks are particularly important during fetal development, when they promote normal physical development in the sexes despite natural variations in testosterone during pregnancy. Researchers know that fetal exposure to too much testosterone can masculinize the genitals, brain or behavior of a genetically female fetus. Likewise, too little testosterone can make a genetically male fetus more feminized.

    But here's the catch: There's lots of overlap between the levels of testosterone male and female fetuses get exposed to. That means there must be another side to the story, Rice and his colleagues wrote.

    That side appears to be epigenetics, Rice said.

    "Early in development, we think these epi-marks are laid down so that girl fetuses will be relatively insensitive to testosterone and male fetuses will be relatively sensitive to testosterone," Rice said.

    Biological behavior

    Thus, if an epi-mark that kept a mother from getting exposed to high testosterone in development gets passed on to her son — the opposite sex — it could desensitize him to testosterone, contributing to his sexual preference for men. Similarly, if a male-specific epi-mark from dad gets passed to a daughter, it could "masculinize" her sexual preference, making her more interested in women.

    These findings could explain why twin studies show that homosexuality runs in families, but no "gay gene" can be found, Rice said. In identical twins, there's about a 20 percent chance that if one twin is gay, the other will be too. If genetic change were responsible for homosexuality, you'd expect a much higher match, Rice said. Epigenetics, however, can explain the heritability without the need for a specific genetic change.

    The hypothesis could be tested by examining epigenetic marks in parents of kids with gay versus straight offspring, Rice said. There are, of course, concerns that this knowledge could be used by parents who want to avoid gay offspring, Rice said, but that concern already exists around certain hormonal conditions in utero, which are known to contribute to an increased chance of offspring being lesbians.

    "That cat's already out of the bag," Rice said. He added that an understanding of the biological underpinnings of homosexuality could help emphasize that same-sex behavior is not "unnatural."

    "In fact, it's a major part of the natural world," Rice said. Fourteen percent of Western gulls raise chicks in female-female pairs, he pointed out. And 8 percent of male sheep show zero interest in fertile ewes, but get sexually excited by other rams. ]

    May 4, 2013 at 10:15 pm |
    • lol??

      Science is and has always been out for the dough.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:31 pm |
    • == o ==

      @lol?? So Lot, your daughters aren't so attractive anymore? You should have come out of the cave when you had the chance.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:42 pm |
    • faith

      dear dorothy, as u no, i simply quoted u with fv ck spelled properly and u won't post it. u don't expect us to no who controls this cehbut appool, true? r u a bigger idiot than t the moron and sam thew slimeball nazi te rr orist?

      May 5, 2013 at 12:00 am |
    • lol??

      == o ==,
      Amazing what desperate women in heat can do when they put their minds together.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:05 am |
  17. Observer

    Chad,

    "Historical evidence – no historical detail in the bible has ever been proved to be incorrect"

    Absolute NONSENSE. Why spread such ignorance?

    – II Chronicles 22:2 “Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in
    Jerusalem.” [KJV]
    – II Kings 8:26 “Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.”

    OOOPS!

    May 4, 2013 at 10:13 pm |
    • faith

      "II Chronicles 22:2 “Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in
      Jerusalem.” [KJV]
      – II Kings 8:26 “Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.”

      there is a problem?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • Observer

      faith,

      So was he voted out of office as king, but then re-elected?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:45 pm |
    • biggles

      Why are you asking? You should know before you lie about sacred things

      May 4, 2013 at 11:17 pm |
    • Observer

      biggles,

      "Why are you asking? You should know before you lie about sacred things"

      I stated EXACTLY what the Bible said. Saying that is "lying" just points out who the liar is.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:21 pm |
    • lol??

      II Chronicles 21:20 says that Ahaziah’s dad began to reign at age thirty-two. He reigned for eight years and then died (at age forty). Obviously his son could not have been forty-two at that time! However, it is quite possible that there were a couple of kings that reigned in quick succession here (since Ahaziah only reigned one year). Supporting this idea is the confusion of names that appear for the king at this time (Jehoahaz in II Chronicles 21:17 and Azariah in 22:6). Moreover, Matthew 1:8 completely skips this part of the genealogy, further confusing the issue. It also appears that Azariah was a VERY common name. Note in II Chronicles 21:2 that Ahaziah had two uncles named Azariah! Perhaps one of them reigned briefly. The age difference would certainly fit. Note also below.

      2KI 9:27 Jehu shot Ahaziah near Ibleam. Ahaziah fled to Meggido and died there. 2CH 22:9 Ahaziah was found hiding in Samaria, brought to Jehu, and put to death.

      It is very likely that we are dealing with two different individuals. In support of this, II Kings describes how Jehu, after shooting Ahaziah, goes to Samaria and kills numerous other members of the royal family (II Kings 10:12-14). Furthermore, the Ahaziah that is killed in II Chronicles 22:9 is said to be the son of Jehosophat (rather than grandson), and in II Chronicles 21:2 we note that Jehosophat did have two sons named Azariah.

      You can unscramble all this without the coroner's report?
      http://www.genesispark.com/essays/contradictions/answered/

      May 5, 2013 at 12:15 am |
    • Observer

      lol?

      "He had brothers, the sons of Jehoshaphat: Azariah, Jehiel, Zechariah, Azaryahu, Michael, and Shephatiah; all these were the sons of Jehoshaphat king of Israel." {NKJV]

      No duplicate names there.

      May 5, 2013 at 12:26 am |
    • lol??

      Just give us a flow chart if you're the expert. You're not the first to ponder it.

      May 5, 2013 at 12:38 am |
    • PaulB

      faith
      The problem is that 22 years does not equal 42 years.

      May 5, 2013 at 12:40 am |
    • Ken

      Here's a simple one. Exodus 9:3-6 has God kill off all the horses of the Egyptians before the Israelites were set free, and then Pharaoh's army chases after them using horses.

      May 5, 2013 at 12:57 am |
    • lol??

      Ken,
      "Exd 9:6 And the LORD did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of Egypt died: but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one."
      Read a little closer. Enuff

      May 5, 2013 at 1:28 am |
    • faith

      Observer
      Chad,
      "Historical evidence – no historical detail in the bible has ever been proved to be incorrect"

      Absolute NONSENSE. Why spread such ignorance?
      – II Chronicles 22:2 “Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in
      Jerusalem.” [KJV]
      – II Kings 8:26 “Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.”
      OOOPS!
      May 4, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Reply
      faith
      "II Chronicles 22:2 “Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in
      Jerusalem.” [KJV]
      – II Kings 8:26 “Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.”
      there is a problem?
      May 4, 2013 at 10:39 pm | Report abuse |
      Observer
      faith,
      So was he voted out of office as king, but then re-elected?
      May 4, 2013 at 10:45 pm | Report abuse |
      biggles
      Why are you asking? You should know before you lie about sacred things

      May 4, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Report abuse |
      Observer
      biggles,
      "Why are you asking? You should know before you lie about sacred things"

      I stated EXACTLY what the Bible said. Saying that is "lying" just points out who the liar is."

      this, my beloved, is the reason nazi terrorists god-haters have no credibility.

      May 5, 2013 at 9:45 am |
  18. faith

    .
    Did the KKK Kweef Kween get yet another name??? Lmfao!!!
    Oh yeah, it's "BUT T out, Bit ch." And fu ck you, mainepigglesqueefyfaith1.

    our loving moderator and moral atheist, nazi, god-hating "scholar"

    no?

    May 4, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
  19. STFU

    Austin, let's talk about s.ex and religion; why do people become remorseful after performing masterb ation?

    May 4, 2013 at 9:04 pm |
    • lol??

      Science calls it afterglow, err angel dust.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:13 pm |
    • Austin

      No............why did you change the subject from talking about se.x to masturb.ation? Don't you understand your error?

      Let's talk about football. Serena Williams is a the best .

      May 4, 2013 at 11:49 pm |
  20. Bostontola

    Imagine if a group said to people, give me some of your money, a lot of your time, your love and devotion now, and we'll give you everlasting joy and ecstasy in a life after you die. The bunko squad would be all over them.

    May 4, 2013 at 8:28 pm |
    • Chad

      Not if the promise of everlasting life is true..

      May 4, 2013 at 8:51 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad,
      More than one group (religions) promise this and make it contingent on their rules only. That means at best all but 1 are con artists.

      May 4, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
    • Chad

      all but one

      you are correct

      May 4, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Many people in the other religions are certain theirs is the unique correct on. They have direct personal witness of their god's touching their soul. Why is that witness less valid than yours?

      May 4, 2013 at 9:04 pm |
    • Chad

      Judeo/Christianity is unique in many respects.
      – it's real and grounded in actual history
      – It does not rely on a single persons revelation of truth
      – the deity actually came to this earth
      – all other religions tell their followers to reach up to god, the God of Israel reaches down to man.

      all of this is unique. You should investigate!

      May 4, 2013 at 9:10 pm |
    • midwest rail

      None of which answers the question, " Why is that witness less valid than yours ?"

      May 4, 2013 at 9:12 pm |
    • Bostontola

      Chad,
      I'm not trying to disprove your beliefs, we are all arguing over unprovable things (with respect to god, many religious beliefs are provably wrong). I was brought up Jewish with Hebrew school and bar mitzvah. I've taken comparative religion classes in college. I think I've done quite a bit of exploration. It doesn't work for me, but it does fascinate me.

      May 4, 2013 at 9:14 pm |
    • Chad

      @midwest rail "None of which answers the question, " Why is that witness less valid than yours ?""

      =>The belief systems are mutually exclusive, the God of Israel is valid because He is real.

      May 4, 2013 at 9:14 pm |
    • midwest rail

      That wasn't the question, but I'm hardly surprised at the answer.

      May 4, 2013 at 9:17 pm |
    • Chad

      @Bostontola " It doesn't work for me, but it does fascinate me."
      @Chad "well, if you have done what you claim, you should know by now that Judeo/Christianity is not a philosophy. It makes no claim to "work for anyone", it does not compete with self help programs.
      If makes a claim to be real
      I'm sure you'll agree that we dont get to ignore inconvenient reality.

      May 4, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Really? You seem to do so all the time, Chard.

      May 4, 2013 at 9:43 pm |
    • Ken

      Chad
      Yup, it's not like your ordinary self-help advice. Dr. Phil would never say that you deserve to be tortured forever just because you couldn't get anything out of one of his books.

      May 4, 2013 at 9:46 pm |
    • Ken

      Chad
      If this were a case before the bunko squad, and you were claiming that yours was a sole legitimate case of an actual god saving mankind amongst thousands of frauds, you'd be expected to provide proof, correct? Can you prove that your god exists and this is something that he can actually provide?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:01 pm |
    • Jesus freaker

      the God of Israel is valid because He is real.

      Well I'm convinced. Where do I send my check?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:03 pm |
    • Chad

      @Ken,

      A. What would you consider proof
      B. What investigation have you done into the claims of Christianity?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:03 pm |
    • Observer

      Chad,

      We are all still waiting. You have been completely unable to supply ONE FACT that proves the existence of God.

      On the other hand, there is plenty of proof that the 3 Stooges existed.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
    • The real Tom

      Your posts are the evidence, Chard. You've done all the research. You've presented what you have here. It's not enough.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
    • Chad

      Historical evidence
      – no historical detail in the bible has ever been proved to be incorrect
      – Historicity of Jesus of Nazareth
      – Historicity of the empty tomb
      – Origin of the disciples belief that they had met a resurrected Jesus, a belief they held so strongly that they were willing to go to their deaths proclaiming the truth.

      Scientific evidence for the God of Israel
      Fossil Record.
      From the late 1800's thru 1972 the notion of "Darwinian gradualism" held the world captive. The notion that purely random mutation preserved in the population by natural selection would produce a gradual change, which over time would create the complexity of life we now observe (phyletic gradualism).
      Then, in 1972 the publication of "Punctuated equilibria: an alternative to phyletic gradualism" by Stephen Gould (atheist) finally forced the scientific world to accept the reality that the fossil record does not show the gradual change over time that Darwin proposed.

      Instead, what the community was forced to acknowledge, is that the fossil record reflects stasis and rapid change.
      This supports the theistic evolutionist claim that God used natural processes to develop life on this earth, as pure chance can never explain the grand paroxysm of necessarily interrelated mutations that are required to occur to accomplish this rapid change.

      Origins of the universe
      For most of scientific history, the universe was thought to have always existed, directly refuting the theistic claim that the universe had a beginning, and a creator.

      Then, a series of discoveries resulted in a complete transformation of thought, we now know that our universe has not always existed, rather it had a beginning, confirming the theistic claim:
      – 1929: Edwin Hubble discovers red shift (the stars and planets are all moving away from each other. The universe is expanding in all directions)
      – 1965: discovery of microwave cosmic background radiation (the echo's of the big bang)
      – 1998, two independent research groups studying distant supernovae were astonished to discover, against all expectations, that the current expansion of the universe is accelerating (Reiss 1998, Perlmutter 1999).
      – 2003: Borde, Guth, and Vilenkin's Past-Finite Universe proves our universe had a beginning

      Fine Tuning of the universe
      In the past 30 or 40 years, scientists have been astonished to find that the initial conditions of our universe were fine-tuned for the existence of building blocks of life. Constants such as gravitational constant have been found, the variation of which to even the smallest degree, would have rendered the universe utterly incapable of supporting life.

      "There is now broad agreement among physicists and cosmologists that the Universe is in several respects ‘fine-tuned' for life". However, he continues, "the conclusion is not so much that the Universe is fine-tuned for life; rather it is fine-tuned for the building blocks and environments that life requires." - Paul Davies

      "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the mas ses of the proton and the electron. ... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life - Stephen Hawking

      “As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.” - Professor Freeman J. Dyson of the Insti tute for Advanced Study in Princeton

      ”The big bang appeared to be a very peculiar kind of explosion. Just imagine a pin balancing on its point. Nudge it slightly in any direction and it will fall. So it is with the big bang. A large universe sprinkled with galaxies, like the one we see around us, is produced only if the power of the primoridial blast is fine tuned with incredible precision. A tiny deviation from the required power results in a cosmological disaster, such as the fireball collapsing under its own weight or the universe being nearly empty” – Alexander Vilenkin

      Now, neither Davies or Hawking is a believer in God. They both believe in fine tuning, they just posit natural reasons for it.

      Evidence from human experience
      – Objective morality exists
      – Free will exists (it doesn’t in the atheist/naturalist/determinist view)

      May 4, 2013 at 10:09 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Well, that was inevitable.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • The real Tom

      If it wasn't persuasive the first 85 times you c/p it, Chard, it's not going to be persuasive this time, either.

      Knock it off, bozo. You don't have proof. That you think you do is laughable.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:11 pm |
    • Ken

      Chad
      A. What would I consider proof? Anything that directly indicated that God exists. Certainly not any gaps in our knowledge where God could be hiding. That's just speculation.

      B. What investigation have I done into the claims of Christianity? I've heard plenty of Christianity's claims, most likely all of the major ones believers find most compelling, and I've found none of them convincing. Beyond that, it's not my job to search out additional proof for myself. There's already billions of Christians out there arguing for it, and they have the benefit of thousands of years of theology to draw upon. If they can't convince me with the case they can put together with all that why should I bother looking for more?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
    • Ken

      Chad
      And there's the patented Chad copy-and-paste list of tired old arguments that have been picked apart here time and again. Don't you have anything new to argue with?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:18 pm |
    • Athy

      It's the same tired Chad argument. Best to ignore it.

      May 4, 2013 at 10:29 pm |
    • faith

      what do you think, bosthwana?

      May 4, 2013 at 10:43 pm |
    • faith

      "Ken
      Chad
      A. What would I consider proof? Anything that directly indicated that God exists. Certainly not any gaps in our knowledge where God could be hiding. That's just speculation.

      B. What investigation have I done into the claims of Christianity? I've heard plenty of Christianity's claims, most likely all of the major ones believers find most compelling, and I've found none of them convincing. Beyond that, it's not my job to search out additional proof for myself. There's already billions of Christians out there arguing for it, and they have the benefit of thousands of years of theology to draw upon. If they can't convince me with the case they can put together with all that why should I bother looking for more?"

      if it ain't workin for ya, it ain't workin. beat it. get lost. y r u wasting your and our time here? r u a clown? so what, god don't exist. what do u want from us? scram idiot

      May 4, 2013 at 11:32 pm |
    • faith

      i won't ask "r u an idiot?" we all no who this moron tom is.

      "The real Tom
      If it wasn't persuasive the first 85 times you c/p it, Chard, it's not going to be persuasive this time, either.
      Knock it off, bozo. You don't have proof. That you think you do is laughable."

      what do u want? get lost. duh. whatjewexpect, imbecile, after 85 times? DUH

      May 4, 2013 at 11:37 pm |
    • Austin

      Nice post Chad.

      can't touch this.

      May 4, 2013 at 11:45 pm |
    • Ken

      Austin
      This copy-and-paste from Chad has been "touched" upon very effectively in these places, at least:

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/07/my-take-the-pope-is-irrelevant/comment-page-4/

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/28/my-faith-why-im-going-back-to-church-for-good-friday/comment-page-2/

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/18/my-take-godless-in-boston-mourn-too/comment-page-23/

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/29/new-film-examines-science-vs-religion/comment-page-2/

      http://0-religion.blogs.cnn.com.library.ccbcmd.edu/2013/02/13/pope-benedict-makes-first-appearance-since-resignation-news/

      http://0-religion.blogs.cnn.com.library.ccbcmd.edu/2013/02/27/fill-in-the-blank-jesus-is____/comment-page-5/

      He has others that comprise the majority of his responses here, it seems, and each gets patiently deconstructed every time it gets pasted. It's very hard to take such a character seriously but, then again, how many times has it been that we've heard about your dreams here? No wonder you're such a fan! 😉

      May 5, 2013 at 12:37 am |
    • Wendy

      @Chad

      – it's real and grounded in actual history
      – It does not rely on a single persons revelation of truth
      – the deity actually came to this earth
      – all other religions tell their followers to reach up to god, the God of Israel reaches down to man.

      You're the one trying to make a case, so it's up to you to provide the proof. You can't push this responsibility off onto your critics. If you don't have any, then these are just unsubstantiated assertions.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:02 am |
    • redzoa

      "Instead, what the community was forced to acknowledge, is that the fossil record reflects stasis and rapid change.
      This supports the theistic evolutionist claim that God used natural processes to develop life on this earth, as pure chance can never explain the grand paroxysm of necessarily interrelated mutations that are required to occur to accomplish this rapid change."

      PE is a species-level observation, i.e. speciation events. "Species" is the lowest rung on the taxonomic hierarchy and the differences between a parental and daughter species are morphologically and genetically minimal. There is no "grand paroxysm of interrelated mutations" required for a speciation event. Furthermore, the nodes of the PE changes span, at a minimum, tens of thousands of years which is more than enough time for multiple rounds of speciation. Moreover, these tens of thousands of years provide plenty of time for speciation by gradual changes:

      "The relationship between punctuationism and gradualism can be better appreciated by considering an example. Suppose the average length of a limb in a particular species grows 50 centimeters (20 inches) over 70,000 years—a large amount in a geologically short period of time. If the [[Arithmetic mean|average]] generation is seven years, then our given time span corresponds to 10,000 generations. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that if the limb size in our hypothetical population evolved in the most conservative manner, it need only increase at a rate of 0.005 cm per generation (= 50cm/10,000), despite its abrupt appearance in the geological record."

      Lastly, although PE observations dominate the fossil record, there remain clear examples of gradualism, e.g. Foraminifera. Chad knows his reliance on PE is unfounded as it has been explained to him dozens of times in painstaking detail. He is willfully ignorant of the science and hopelessly disingenuous in repeating this misrepresentation of PE. His final two "points" have been repeatedly refuted and amount to bald as-sertions.

      May 5, 2013 at 1:14 am |
    • Missed Calling

      Chad would make a great Imam.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:15 am |
    • tallulah13

      "all but one"

      That what they all say, chad. Every true believer of every god ever worshiped has felt the exact same certainty that you feel. And there is exactly the same amount of evidence of existence for every one of those gods: None whatsoever.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:33 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.