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When Christians become a 'hated minority'
Evangelical Christians say they are the new victims of intolerance - they're persecuted for condemning homosexuality.
May 5th, 2013
06:00 AM ET

When Christians become a 'hated minority'

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - When Peter Sprigg speaks publicly about his opposition to homosexuality, something odd often happens.

During his speeches, people raise their hands to challenge his assertions that the Bible condemns homosexuality, but no Christians speak out to defend him.

“But after it is over, they will come over to talk to me and whisper in my ear, ‘I agree with everything you said,’" says Sprigg, a spokesman for The Family Research Council, a powerful, conservative Christian lobbying group.

We’ve heard of the “down-low” gay person who keeps his or her sexual identity secret for fear of public scorn. But Sprigg and other evangelicals say changing attitudes toward homosexuality have created a new victim: closeted Christians who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality but will not say so publicly for fear of being labeled a hateful bigot.

As proof, Sprigg points to the backlash that ESPN commentator Chris Broussard sparked recently. Broussard was called a bigot and a purveyor of hate speech when he said an NBA player who had come out as gay was living in “open rebellion to God.” Broussard said the player, Jason Collins, was “living in unrepentant sin” because the Bible condemns homosexuality.

“In the current culture, it takes more courage for someone like Chris Broussard to speak out than for someone like Jason Collins to come out,” says Sprigg, a former pastor. “The media will hail someone who comes out of the closet as gay, but someone who simply expresses their personal religious views about homosexual conduct is attacked.”

When is disagreement hate?

Bryan Litfin, a theology professor at Moody Bible Institute in Illinois, says Christians should be able to publicly say that God designed sex to take place within a marriage between a man and a woman.

“That isn’t so outrageous,” Litfin says. “Nobody is expressing hate toward homosexuals by saying that. Since when is disagreement the same as hate?”

But quoting the Bible doesn't inoculate anyone from becoming a bigot or hater, some scholars say. There's a point at which a Christian's opposition to homosexuality can become bigotry, and even hate speech, they say.

Crossing such a line has happened many times in history.

A literal reading of the Bible was used to justify all sorts of hatred: slavery, the subjugation of women and anti-Semitism, scholars and pastors say.

“Truly damaging speech cannot be excused just because it expresses genuine religious belief,” says Mark D. Jordan, author of “Recruiting Young Love: How Christians Talk about Homosexuality.”

“Some religious beliefs, sincerely held, are detestable. They cannot be spoken without disrupting social peace,” says Jordan, a professor at the John Danforth Center on Religion & Politics at Washington University in St. Louis.

The point where religious speech becomes hate speech is difficult to define, though, scholars and activists say.

The Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama is a nonprofit civil rights group that combats and monitors hate groups. Three years ago, it designated the Family Research Council, the group that Sprigg represents, as a hate group - a characterization the group stridently rejects.

Mark Potok,  a center spokesman, says there’s no shared definition of what constitutes hate speech.

“There is no legal meaning. It’s just a phrase,” Potok says. “Hate speech is in the ear of the beholder.”

'One of the most hated minorities?'

Intolerance may be difficult to define, but some evangelicals say they have become victims of intolerance because of their reverence for the Bible.

The conservative media culture is filled with stories about evangelicals being labeled as “extremists” for their belief that homosexuality is a sin.

Their sense of persecution goes beyond their stance on homosexuality. There are stories circulating of evangelical students being suspended for opposing homosexuality, a teacher fired for giving a Bible to a curious student, and the rise of anti-Christian bigotry.

A blogger at The American Dream asked in one essay:

“Are evangelical Christians rapidly becoming one of the most hated minorities in America?”

The reluctance of evangelicals to speak out against homosexuality is often cited as proof they are being forced into the closet.

Joe Carter, editor for The Gospel Coalition, an online evangelical magazine, wrote a blog post entitled “Debatable: Is the Christian Church a ‘Hate Group’?" He warned that young people will abandon “orthodox” Christian churches that teach that homosexuality is a sin for fear of being called haters.

“Faux civility, embarrassment, prudishness and a fear of expressing an unpopular opinion has caused many Christians to refrain from explaining how homosexual conduct destroys lives,” Carter wrote.

Some Christians fear that opposing homosexuality could cause them to lose their jobs and “haunt them forever,” Carter says.

“It’s easier to just go along,” says Carter, who is also author of “How to Argue Like Jesus.” “You don’t want to be lumped in with the bigots. That’s a powerful word."

Edward Johnson, a communication professor at Campbell University in North Carolina, says we are now living in a "postmodern" era where everything is relative and there is no universally accepted truth. It's an environment in which anyone who says "this is right" and "that is wrong" is labeled intolerant, he says.

There was a time when a person could publicly say homosexuality was wrong and people could consider the statement without anger, he says. Today, people have reverted to an intellectual tribalism where they are only willing to consider the perspective of their own tribe.

“They are incapable of comprehending that someone may have a view different than theirs,” Johnson says. “For them anyone who dares to question the dogma of the tribe can only be doing so out of hatred.”

Sprigg, from the Family Research Council, says his condemnation of homosexual conduct does not spring from intolerance but a desire to protect gays from harmful conduct, he says.

Sprigg, a senior fellow for policy studies at the council, wrote in a council pamphlet that homosexual men are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are straight men. He also wrote that gay men are also afflicted with a higher rate of sexually transmitted diseases and mental illness as well.

Sprigg says he does not believe homosexuality is a choice and that “personal testimonies" and "clinical experience” show that some people “can and do change from gay to straight.”

“Maybe we need to do a better job of showing that we are motivated by Christian love,” Sprigg says. “Love is wanting the best for someone, and acting to bring that about.”

'That's a lie'

Potok, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, has little use for the love Sprigg talks about.

He calls it hatred, and his voice rose in anger when he talked about the claims by Sprigg and other Christian groups that gay men are more predisposed to molest children and that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful.

He says the Southern Poverty Law Center didn’t designate the Family Research Group a hate group because they view homosexuality as a sin or oppose same-sex marriage, Potok says. There are plenty of Christian groups who hold those beliefs but are not hate groups, he says.

A group becomes a hate group when it attacks and maligns an entire class of people for their “immutable characteristics,” Potok says. The Family Research Council spreads known falsehoods about gays and lesbians, he says, such as the contention that gay men are predisposed to abuse children.

“That’s a lie,” Potok says. “These guys are engaging in straight-up defamation of a very large group of people. There are not many things much worse than you can say in America about somebody than they are a child molester.”

Potok scoffed at Spriggs’ claim that the council and other evangelical anti-gay groups are victims of intolerance.

“That’s whining on the part of people who spend their days and nights attacking gay people and then some people criticize them and they don’t like it,” he says. “That’s pathetic. It reminds me of slave owners complaining that people are saying ugly things about them.”

What the Bible says

What about the popular evangelical claim, “We don’t hate the sinner, just the sin” – is that seen as intolerance or hate speech when it comes to homosexuality?

There are those who say you can’t hate the sin and love the sinner because being gay or lesbian is defined by one’s sexual behavior; it’s who someone is.

“Most people who identify as gay and lesbian would say that this is not an action I’m choosing to do; this is who I am,” says Timothy Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible: The Unexpected History of an Accidental Book.”

Beal, a religion professor at Case Western University in Ohio, says it should be difficult for any Christian to unequivocally declare that the Bible opposes homosexuality because the Bible doesn’t take a single position on the topic. It's an assertion that many scholars and mainline Protestant pastors would agree with.

Some people cite Old Testament scriptures as condemning homosexuality, such as  Leviticus 18:22 - “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” But other Christians counter by saying they are not bound by the Old Testament.

There are those who also cite New Testament scriptures like Romans 1:26-27 - “… Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men. …”

Beal, however, says Jesus said little about sex. And the Apostle Paul, who wrote Romans, was probably referring to male prostitution and men having sexual relations with boys, a practice in the Greco-Roman world.

“Paul does not understand genetics and sexual orientation the way we understand it now as something much more than a choice,” says Beal.

Some evangelicals say Christians can’t change their view of biblical truth just because times change. But some scholars reply:

Sure you can. Christians do it all the time.

Denying a woman’s ability to preach in church was justified by scriptures like 1 Timothy 2:11-12 - “… I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” But many churches have abandoned that teaching - and some scholars say a woman preached the first Christian sermon, when Mary Magdalene proclaimed that Jesus had risen.

Slaveholders in 19th century America justified slavery through a literal reading of the Bible, quoting Titus 2:9-10 – “Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything. …” And anti-Semitism was justified by the claims that Jews killed Jesus, such as Matthew 27: 25-26 - “Let his blood be on us and on our children.”

Litfin, from Moody Bible Institute, acknowledged that the Bible once sanctioned slavery, but he said that practice was a “cultural expression” that changed over time. Evangelicals who oppose same-sex marriage by citing the Bible are on more solid ground, he says.

“Marriage is a universal and timeless institution that God set up for maximum human flourishing. He set it up in the first book of the Bible with the story of Adam and Eve. It is consistent throughout the whole Bible. … Marriage is in a different category than those cultural things.”

Public jousts over the Bible's stance on homosexuality rarely change people’s minds. What changes is when people get to know gay and lesbian people as friends and hear their story, says Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible.”

“If you open up to that other person genuinely, you basically come to a point where you have to sacrifice them to your ideology or crack open your ideology to make a hospitable place for them,” Beal says.

One Christian pastor who is gay says the uproar over the ESPN commentator’s comments can actually be good,  because debates help settle moral disputes.

“What appears to us as antiquated and prejudicial now was once a disputed issue that required debate,” says the Rev. Richard McCarty, a minister in the United Church of Christ and a religious studies professor at Mercyhurst University in Pennsylvania.

Until the debate over homosexuality is settled - if it ever is - there may be plenty of evangelical Christians who feel as if they are now being forced to stay in the closet.

Carter, the evangelical blogger, says he foresees a day when any church that preaches against homosexuality will be marginalized. Just as many churches now accept divorce, they will accept sexual practices once considered sinful.

“It’s getting to the point,” he says, “where churches are not going to say that any sexual activity is wrong.”

- CNN Writer

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Christianity • Church • Church and state • Culture wars • Protest • Sex • Sexuality • Sports

soundoff (10,982 Responses)
  1. Casey

    We are all well aware that Christians can be extremists, hypocrits, bigots, etc. What truly cracks me up about the discussions happening here are the athiests who claim that Christians are always forcing their beliefs on others, and yet sit around preaching their beliefs (or lack thereof) and forcing them on others. Get over your all-knowing selves and stop being hypocritical. You're just like the Christians you preach about.

    As for gay marriage, I could care less. Let the GLBT's do what they want!

    May 5, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • faith

      u were a little light on the xtards, i'm afraid. they also murder, hate, own slaves, fly planes into buildings, pressure cookers into backpacks, cheat, steal, commit adultery all the time, fornicate, drink and drug excessively, are narcissists, ego-driven show offs, selfish, conceited, jealous and disgusting-on a good day

      better dorothy?

      May 5, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • Casey

      You tell me... because "etc" wasn't sufficient enough for you. Thank you for wasting your time. Feel better?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • JWoody907

      You make a good point, but as a fairly vocal atheist let me try and explain why we do that.

      For decades (and even centuries) atheists and even other religions, were quiet and let the Christians do their own thing, the problem is that unfortunately it wasn't a "live and let live" scenario. The Christians became an unchecked force, and began proselytizing constantly, whether through personal connections, mass media, the internet, or even door-to-door missionaries. They used their public relations powers to begin vilifying those who did not share their beliefs, such as atheists who were branded for many many many years as satanists, pagans, etc.

      Because of this, the atheists (amongst others) decided to get organized and put out a counter message, make it okay to be an atheist, agnostic, humanist, whatever, and correct the highly-skewed image that Christianity had created of us. After that started to happen, the message just kind of spilled into other arenas as well, including arguing strongly against organized religion because it's followers are often the worst kind of misinformed, they read only the material selected for them, and then presume they are experts. They often have just enough knowledge of the material to sound intelligent, and make a half-decent argument, which is convincing, but they don't understand it so they're blindly following something.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
  2. Science

    The wrong path is Adam and Eve .............. 338,000 thousand years ago...........where was the bible ?

    Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

    Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

    No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US

    Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.

    No god(s) needed................... Old. DNA works..................also catches crooks !

    Ancient DNA Reveals Europe's Dynamic Genetic History

    Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423134037.htm

    May 5, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Mad cows have more in common with humans like you

      May 5, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • Science

      When cows run amok...................Milk good ..............creates gas and cheese.

      The ORIGIN story is bullsh-it...............so is the bible............... nasty !

      From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

      Scientists have unearthed the first direct signs of cheesemaking, at a site in Poland that dates back 7,500 years.

      Human Evolution

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2cHumanevo.shtml

      peace

      May 5, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
  3. Concerned Church Mom

    Psalm 68:2

    Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

    May 5, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Observer

      Is there an English translation available?

      May 5, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      You should be concerned about education more than religion.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      ???
      Ok, I'm normally pretty good at reading between the lines, and figuring out what someone is saying, but this is random gibberish, right...and has nothing to do with the psalm they cited, which has something to do with god smoking....

      May 5, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • yalesouth

      What are you trying to say?

      May 5, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Maybe god wasn't the only one smoking. I think CCM got her hands on of some of the good stuff.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
  4. SeanKB

    When someone's opinions in and of themselves are hateful, responding with a smile gets you nowhere. Why should secular humanists just keep letting Christians get away with being as hateful and vile as they possibly can be. At least when we hate you, we don't need a mob to tell you. Christians need a mob to make their opinions heard because their opinions are absurd, and with a mass collective of lowered intelligence reinforcing them, they need not concern themselves with not having a leg to stand on.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      We need to stop those Christians. Worship the cow.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
  5. lol??

    Saved Israel and lost Israel. Fleshly Israel and Spiritual Israel. Old Jerusalem and New Jerusalem.

    "Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."..

    May 5, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • G to the T

      I'll take "Concepts that didn't exist until decades after Jesus live"?

      May 9, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
  6. Kevin

    Oh, the irony.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Glad to hear 'they' are a minority

      May 5, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
  7. When cows run amok

    John Blake seems to have some valuable pointers in this post.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
  8. Paul Jaramillo

    I hope most of these conversations don't involve this childish accusations that a person is gay, even though they are not, that is juvenile and stupid.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Eat some cheese

      May 5, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
  9. jim atmad

    Really?

    The President is a self-proclaimed Christian, as is the Vice President, and nearly every Senator, Congressperson, Governor, and state-level representative in America.

    Every Christian church that wanted to hold services today, did so, just like every Sunday. People show up for services without fear of interference or retribution, wear crosses to work, and discuss their faith freely. As long as nobody tries to impose their beliefs and practices on other people, everybody gets along fine.

    People call out a sports talking head for what many people (including many Christians (including me)) perceive as bigoted remarks and we're pulling out the VICTIM CARD?!?

    The 70% of us who call ourselves Christians are somehow a 'hated minority'??? Amazing.

    No wonder Christianity is losing followers every day. The grip on reality in some circles has been completely lost.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • lol??

      You're blaming God because public servant jobs morphed into highly coveted ones through the help of the socialists??

      May 5, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Now it is time for us to remove all of the things that the christains HAVE imposed on everyone else.
      Remove the LIE " in god we trust" from our money. ( It only became law in the fifty's, and they had to violate the const!tution to pass it)

      Remove the phrase that references god in the pledge of allegience. Return it to the way it was written and accepted, and give the pledge back to the people, not just those with gods.

      Repeal the laws that are still on the books preventing atheists from holding office, or in Arkansas, from testifying in court.
      Remove the "Blue Laws", as they were put in place because people were supposed to be in church.

      In other words, remove the damage the christians have already done.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • lol??

      Yes get that off the money. The sneaky little socialist trick of swearin' to a flag ain't so hot either. Hold the servants to an allegiance to the consti*tution and the masters.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Sharon

      @ Richard Cranium: I TOTALLY AGREE with you.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
  10. faith

    we are failing. hated majority is what we seek. but remember, many r cold but few r frozen

    May 5, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Got milk?

      May 5, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
  11. Michele

    They reap what they sow.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Eh, We chew what you sow

      May 5, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
  12. joanace7

    Let the persecution begin....

    May 5, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • faith

      on your mark

      May 5, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      Let the bigotry end.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Watch out running wild, hell hath no fury as a mad cow running wild

      May 5, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Errday

      Cure humanity of mental illness and see religion disappear forever.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
  13. Big Sky Humanist

    when theism goes away, atheism will go away

    May 5, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • Errday

      um, no.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
  14. Daneel Chevalier

    So they are being persecuted because they are being made to feel ashamed for their bigotry? In that case, the KKK is also being persecuted.

    When you tell that the creator of the universe thinks that those who are not like you are worthy of an eternity of torture, don't expect people to like you as a result.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      worship the almighty cow

      May 5, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
  15. John

    “They are incapable of comprehending that someone may have a view different than theirs,” Johnson says.

    Isn't this exactly why fundamentalist christians are concidered by others as bigots? Isn't this why so much of the public views incorporation of "christian" viewpoints into law as bigotry? This centuries long battle did not begin with non christians.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • James Madison

      Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt. will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

      The Civil Govt, tho' bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability and performs its functions with complete success, Whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the Priesthood, & the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church from the State.

      (Chief architect of the U.S. Constitution; framer of the first ten Amendments.)

      May 5, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
  16. Notevangelical

    Many evangelicals refuse to engage with the rest of the world, preferring to sit in their megachurch palaces and weep about how the world is rejecting them and their message. The miss the fundamental message of the Gospel: to go into the world and live in such a way that the unbelievers will want to emulate them and freely join with them. It's much harder to do than what they are doing now.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      And the last thing I want to do is sit in a megachurch with millions of dollars in audio/video equipment and act like I am being oppressed.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
  17. urmomlol

    "Since when is disagreement the same as hate"

    Whenever it disagrees with current progressive orthodoxy. Still, many Christians really ought to stop being dumb about this issue, because if they're looking for cultural issues on which to take a stand they're really barking up the wrong tree with this one.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
  18. Blessed are the Cheesemakers

    “That isn’t so outrageous,” Litfin says. “Nobody is expressing hate toward ho.mose.xuals by saying that. Since when is disagreement the same as hate?”

    I agree with this point but both sides do this. When the premise of Christianity is attacked Christians claim it is "hate", and the same happens to them when they attack gay lifestyles. The line is crossed when we want to take away individual rights. As the old saying goes "my right to swing my arm stops at your nose".

    May 5, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
  19. Tom

    Why is this such a controversial matter? It's not rocket science. 1 Corinthians 11:9 says that God made the woman for the man. Genesis agrees with that because God made the first woman for the first man. That is a fact that cannot be denied. Then Jesus said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?" Without apology, when Jesus spoke of marriage, He ONLY spoke of a man and a woman and He did not either mention nor imply man/man or woman/woman. Even our physiology biologically agrees with that. So why do people continually lie to themselves about it, and then become angry and HATEFUL when someone (like me) simply expresses the truth?

    May 5, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • Jill

      1. Your education in biology is lacking.
      2. Other theists disagree with your interpretation.

      Wow – how simple is that?

      May 5, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • Observer

      Tom,

      You missed the rest of your quote. It says that "what God has joined, let man not separate".

      Ooops. NO DIVORCES.

      Let's not talk about that. Pick and choose. Let's pick on gays instead.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Sharon

      Simply because it is not the "truth". It is your version of the truth. Your logic falls apart from the very beginning.

      1) The bible teachings you quote require a belief that the bible is the word of god. If someone (and there are many) doesn't believe in god or doesn't believe that the bible is the word of god then your premise is dead in the water.

      2) Jesus Christ probably didn't exist. And even if he did, the bible that supposedly contains his teachings was written a very long time after he was dead.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      Simple for a simple mind.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • dzerres

      Keep your "truth" to yourself. You don't constantly want to hear, from our side, how ignorant, knuckle dragging neanderthals you religious zealots are. Those are our opinions and you can have yours. We could give a cr@p what any Book says about us because we know its all made up out of thin air and its mythology at best, hate mongering at worst.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      I am not a Christian, and do not care what your bible says. I am not, and should not be, forced to live under its laws, except those which agree with common sense morality such as crimes against others, theft, etc.

      Gay people harm nobody. You can't force them to accept your god.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      It is not rocket science and is a simple matter. Keep your bible off our laws.

      If you have a cogent argument that is not bible based , please feel free to present it, otherwise, keep your bible away from our laws.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • Tyler

      You are correct. The bible does say that. However, I don't think any moral lessons that come from from a silly and antiquated holy book has any relevance. Your bible also says that slavery is a perfectly acceptable practice.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • robert

      I cannot believe the double standard of the supporters of the gay community. They criticize this man's post with hateful disrespectful responses and then expect him to silently sit by and hold his opinions to himself. Let's be consistent folks!

      May 5, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Your "truth" is nothing more than your opinion. Knowledge of the natural world has progressed far, far beyond the understanding of the men who wrote the bible 2000 years ago. There is far more evidence to indicate that homosexuality is innate than there is evidence for any god.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • Observer

      robert,

      Yes. Let's be consistent folks.

      When Christians pick on gays, they need to remember that there are FAR FAR MORE Christian adulterers than there are total gays.

      "let's be consistent" and skip all the Christian HYPOCRISY.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • dondondon12

      the bible also tells of speaking snakes and donkeys.. As well as the guidlines for how many slaves you can own.. Lets not forget the ban on pork..or working on the sabbath-you can be put to death for mowing your lawn on the sabbath..all in the same book you site as irrefutable fact..

      May 5, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Robert: Tom claimed that his version was the truth, when in fact it was his opinion. I don't think anyone would deny another their opinion, no matter how backward and ignorant they find that opinion. But Tom made a false claim, and I don't think anyone believes that blatant lies should be respected.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • BaZinga

      Tom, your 'Truth" comes from a collection of books written by people who didn't personally witness the events they wrote about, not to mention claimed to be fact by the very people who wrote it. What makes you think your book is any more correct than the koran or the hindu texts. In fact, christianity is very closely related to the mithra religion that predates christianity by at least a 1000 years. If I wrote a book and claim it to be without error would you be stupid enough to believe it?

      Offer up some credible peer-reviewed evidence, or better yet, tell your god to make a public appearance, and you will gain some credibility.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Larry

      So you can quote specifics from bronze age writers (with bronze age views), great. How is that relevant to the present day. You can believe it comes from a "god" but many don't. So it is just your opinion. Express it all you want, but don't stand in the way of others' rights.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • M

      I agree with you. It takes more faith to believe in God than to believe in science. The Bible even says that it is not meant for the philosopher or the scientists but that belief is simply out of faith. Keep doing what you do. I would just say that you might want to share God's Word with people who would accept it more. Comment boards don't get any one anywhere trust me I've tried.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • M

      When I say agree I mean with Tom.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • tallulah13

      M: Embracing ignorance has never been a virtue. But I can see how it must be difficult for people to set aside common sense and human decency in order to maintain their religious beliefs. That's probably the reason why people who can't shut off their compassion and honesty are leaving organized religion in droves.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • robert

      tallulah13, I don't know where you are getting your statistics but the reality is that people are turning to Christ faster than ever before. They just aren't doing it in the west as much. Christianity is still the fastest growing religion in the world and has nothing to do with criticizing lifestyles. It has everything to do with offering a message of hope and grace to everyone regardless of who they are or what they have done. All this political correct discourse is a mere distraction from the real issues. People are lonely, hurting, and unfulfilled and they need hope, meaning and purpose. Jesus Christ offers that and more. And by the way, please don't let ignorant or insensitive "Christians" sidetrack you or others from the real issues.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • MS

      You're citing the Bible itself as your proof. I think you've answered your own question.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:44 pm |
    • Doobs

      "tallulah13, I don't know where you are getting your statistics but the reality is that people are turning to Christ faster than ever before. They just aren't doing it in the west as much."

      Exactly. People in the west, with the ability to get a decent education, are much more difficult to indoctrinate with your babble. So you go to impoverished countries and promise to build the villagers a well if they worship your god. You're getting new converts with extortion.

      May 5, 2013 at 7:24 pm |
  20. Christian Privilege

    I don't even try to argue with zealots anymore. I'm confident that between access to information and the old dying out that it won't be a problem for much longer.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      I think youre correct.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • kvankam

      Well, information at internet are not making people more educated, kitties and memes aren't, you know, enyclopedical.

      They are not more interested in science than before. You can see this in the fact that english students don't know where bacon came from.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • Christian Privilege

      Lucky for me, not only the internet favors logic and science over faith and willful ignorance. It's also schools, television, music, movies, and every other influence. Lock up your children, because they're the country's future atheists! bwahaha.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      And kvankam show how crazy he or she really is.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • ..

      "English students don't know where bacon comes from."
      Should they learn that in an English class? No, probably not.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      Bacon comes from god....

      May 5, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I thought Bacon was British.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      Thats the good bacon.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • BaZinga

      I agree. The only reason I post is in retaliation for the nut jobs who disrupt science forums with their biblical nonsense in an attempt to corrupt the nations youth. If they had their way the U.S. would fall even further behind in science and technologies leaving us little to compete with on the global market.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.