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When Christians become a 'hated minority'
Evangelical Christians say they are the new victims of intolerance - they're persecuted for condemning homosexuality.
May 5th, 2013
06:00 AM ET

When Christians become a 'hated minority'

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - When Peter Sprigg speaks publicly about his opposition to homosexuality, something odd often happens.

During his speeches, people raise their hands to challenge his assertions that the Bible condemns homosexuality, but no Christians speak out to defend him.

“But after it is over, they will come over to talk to me and whisper in my ear, ‘I agree with everything you said,’" says Sprigg, a spokesman for The Family Research Council, a powerful, conservative Christian lobbying group.

We’ve heard of the “down-low” gay person who keeps his or her sexual identity secret for fear of public scorn. But Sprigg and other evangelicals say changing attitudes toward homosexuality have created a new victim: closeted Christians who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality but will not say so publicly for fear of being labeled a hateful bigot.

As proof, Sprigg points to the backlash that ESPN commentator Chris Broussard sparked recently. Broussard was called a bigot and a purveyor of hate speech when he said an NBA player who had come out as gay was living in “open rebellion to God.” Broussard said the player, Jason Collins, was “living in unrepentant sin” because the Bible condemns homosexuality.

“In the current culture, it takes more courage for someone like Chris Broussard to speak out than for someone like Jason Collins to come out,” says Sprigg, a former pastor. “The media will hail someone who comes out of the closet as gay, but someone who simply expresses their personal religious views about homosexual conduct is attacked.”

When is disagreement hate?

Bryan Litfin, a theology professor at Moody Bible Institute in Illinois, says Christians should be able to publicly say that God designed sex to take place within a marriage between a man and a woman.

“That isn’t so outrageous,” Litfin says. “Nobody is expressing hate toward homosexuals by saying that. Since when is disagreement the same as hate?”

But quoting the Bible doesn't inoculate anyone from becoming a bigot or hater, some scholars say. There's a point at which a Christian's opposition to homosexuality can become bigotry, and even hate speech, they say.

Crossing such a line has happened many times in history.

A literal reading of the Bible was used to justify all sorts of hatred: slavery, the subjugation of women and anti-Semitism, scholars and pastors say.

“Truly damaging speech cannot be excused just because it expresses genuine religious belief,” says Mark D. Jordan, author of “Recruiting Young Love: How Christians Talk about Homosexuality.”

“Some religious beliefs, sincerely held, are detestable. They cannot be spoken without disrupting social peace,” says Jordan, a professor at the John Danforth Center on Religion & Politics at Washington University in St. Louis.

The point where religious speech becomes hate speech is difficult to define, though, scholars and activists say.

The Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama is a nonprofit civil rights group that combats and monitors hate groups. Three years ago, it designated the Family Research Council, the group that Sprigg represents, as a hate group - a characterization the group stridently rejects.

Mark Potok,  a center spokesman, says there’s no shared definition of what constitutes hate speech.

“There is no legal meaning. It’s just a phrase,” Potok says. “Hate speech is in the ear of the beholder.”

'One of the most hated minorities?'

Intolerance may be difficult to define, but some evangelicals say they have become victims of intolerance because of their reverence for the Bible.

The conservative media culture is filled with stories about evangelicals being labeled as “extremists” for their belief that homosexuality is a sin.

Their sense of persecution goes beyond their stance on homosexuality. There are stories circulating of evangelical students being suspended for opposing homosexuality, a teacher fired for giving a Bible to a curious student, and the rise of anti-Christian bigotry.

A blogger at The American Dream asked in one essay:

“Are evangelical Christians rapidly becoming one of the most hated minorities in America?”

The reluctance of evangelicals to speak out against homosexuality is often cited as proof they are being forced into the closet.

Joe Carter, editor for The Gospel Coalition, an online evangelical magazine, wrote a blog post entitled “Debatable: Is the Christian Church a ‘Hate Group’?" He warned that young people will abandon “orthodox” Christian churches that teach that homosexuality is a sin for fear of being called haters.

“Faux civility, embarrassment, prudishness and a fear of expressing an unpopular opinion has caused many Christians to refrain from explaining how homosexual conduct destroys lives,” Carter wrote.

Some Christians fear that opposing homosexuality could cause them to lose their jobs and “haunt them forever,” Carter says.

“It’s easier to just go along,” says Carter, who is also author of “How to Argue Like Jesus.” “You don’t want to be lumped in with the bigots. That’s a powerful word."

Edward Johnson, a communication professor at Campbell University in North Carolina, says we are now living in a "postmodern" era where everything is relative and there is no universally accepted truth. It's an environment in which anyone who says "this is right" and "that is wrong" is labeled intolerant, he says.

There was a time when a person could publicly say homosexuality was wrong and people could consider the statement without anger, he says. Today, people have reverted to an intellectual tribalism where they are only willing to consider the perspective of their own tribe.

“They are incapable of comprehending that someone may have a view different than theirs,” Johnson says. “For them anyone who dares to question the dogma of the tribe can only be doing so out of hatred.”

Sprigg, from the Family Research Council, says his condemnation of homosexual conduct does not spring from intolerance but a desire to protect gays from harmful conduct, he says.

Sprigg, a senior fellow for policy studies at the council, wrote in a council pamphlet that homosexual men are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are straight men. He also wrote that gay men are also afflicted with a higher rate of sexually transmitted diseases and mental illness as well.

Sprigg says he does not believe homosexuality is a choice and that “personal testimonies" and "clinical experience” show that some people “can and do change from gay to straight.”

“Maybe we need to do a better job of showing that we are motivated by Christian love,” Sprigg says. “Love is wanting the best for someone, and acting to bring that about.”

'That's a lie'

Potok, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, has little use for the love Sprigg talks about.

He calls it hatred, and his voice rose in anger when he talked about the claims by Sprigg and other Christian groups that gay men are more predisposed to molest children and that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful.

He says the Southern Poverty Law Center didn’t designate the Family Research Group a hate group because they view homosexuality as a sin or oppose same-sex marriage, Potok says. There are plenty of Christian groups who hold those beliefs but are not hate groups, he says.

A group becomes a hate group when it attacks and maligns an entire class of people for their “immutable characteristics,” Potok says. The Family Research Council spreads known falsehoods about gays and lesbians, he says, such as the contention that gay men are predisposed to abuse children.

“That’s a lie,” Potok says. “These guys are engaging in straight-up defamation of a very large group of people. There are not many things much worse than you can say in America about somebody than they are a child molester.”

Potok scoffed at Spriggs’ claim that the council and other evangelical anti-gay groups are victims of intolerance.

“That’s whining on the part of people who spend their days and nights attacking gay people and then some people criticize them and they don’t like it,” he says. “That’s pathetic. It reminds me of slave owners complaining that people are saying ugly things about them.”

What the Bible says

What about the popular evangelical claim, “We don’t hate the sinner, just the sin” – is that seen as intolerance or hate speech when it comes to homosexuality?

There are those who say you can’t hate the sin and love the sinner because being gay or lesbian is defined by one’s sexual behavior; it’s who someone is.

“Most people who identify as gay and lesbian would say that this is not an action I’m choosing to do; this is who I am,” says Timothy Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible: The Unexpected History of an Accidental Book.”

Beal, a religion professor at Case Western University in Ohio, says it should be difficult for any Christian to unequivocally declare that the Bible opposes homosexuality because the Bible doesn’t take a single position on the topic. It's an assertion that many scholars and mainline Protestant pastors would agree with.

Some people cite Old Testament scriptures as condemning homosexuality, such as  Leviticus 18:22 - “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” But other Christians counter by saying they are not bound by the Old Testament.

There are those who also cite New Testament scriptures like Romans 1:26-27 - “… Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men. …”

Beal, however, says Jesus said little about sex. And the Apostle Paul, who wrote Romans, was probably referring to male prostitution and men having sexual relations with boys, a practice in the Greco-Roman world.

“Paul does not understand genetics and sexual orientation the way we understand it now as something much more than a choice,” says Beal.

Some evangelicals say Christians can’t change their view of biblical truth just because times change. But some scholars reply:

Sure you can. Christians do it all the time.

Denying a woman’s ability to preach in church was justified by scriptures like 1 Timothy 2:11-12 - “… I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” But many churches have abandoned that teaching - and some scholars say a woman preached the first Christian sermon, when Mary Magdalene proclaimed that Jesus had risen.

Slaveholders in 19th century America justified slavery through a literal reading of the Bible, quoting Titus 2:9-10 – “Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything. …” And anti-Semitism was justified by the claims that Jews killed Jesus, such as Matthew 27: 25-26 - “Let his blood be on us and on our children.”

Litfin, from Moody Bible Institute, acknowledged that the Bible once sanctioned slavery, but he said that practice was a “cultural expression” that changed over time. Evangelicals who oppose same-sex marriage by citing the Bible are on more solid ground, he says.

“Marriage is a universal and timeless institution that God set up for maximum human flourishing. He set it up in the first book of the Bible with the story of Adam and Eve. It is consistent throughout the whole Bible. … Marriage is in a different category than those cultural things.”

Public jousts over the Bible's stance on homosexuality rarely change people’s minds. What changes is when people get to know gay and lesbian people as friends and hear their story, says Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible.”

“If you open up to that other person genuinely, you basically come to a point where you have to sacrifice them to your ideology or crack open your ideology to make a hospitable place for them,” Beal says.

One Christian pastor who is gay says the uproar over the ESPN commentator’s comments can actually be good,  because debates help settle moral disputes.

“What appears to us as antiquated and prejudicial now was once a disputed issue that required debate,” says the Rev. Richard McCarty, a minister in the United Church of Christ and a religious studies professor at Mercyhurst University in Pennsylvania.

Until the debate over homosexuality is settled - if it ever is - there may be plenty of evangelical Christians who feel as if they are now being forced to stay in the closet.

Carter, the evangelical blogger, says he foresees a day when any church that preaches against homosexuality will be marginalized. Just as many churches now accept divorce, they will accept sexual practices once considered sinful.

“It’s getting to the point,” he says, “where churches are not going to say that any sexual activity is wrong.”

- CNN Writer

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Christianity • Church • Church and state • Culture wars • Protest • Sex • Sexuality • Sports

soundoff (10,982 Responses)
  1. Douglas

    Christians are persecuted...it has been that way ever since Jesus showed us the way to salvation.

    The LGBTQ and their atheist allies here have used Christianity as the strawman for relentless and specious attacks because the morality of Christianity is a stumbling block for the fornicating actions of non-celibate LGBTQ.

    Christians are now repelling the attacks by the LGBTQ and atheists. The fact that this pro-gay blog, with its pro-gay
    editorial staff, even entertains this topic is a sign of progress.

    When the Supreme Court delivers a thumbs down on gay marriage watch for the explosion of hate against Christians.

    It is all about the family and morality...the Supreme Court has no other alternative.

    Christians hold the line...reinforcements are on the way.

    May 5, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Cows, Charge on!

      May 5, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • Athy

      I'm afraid the Supreme Court is going to disappoint you, Doug.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • Errday

      Yeah christians! Stay true to the lies! More liars will be along shortly to reinforce your stupid lies that fuck up your brain.
      LOLOLOLOLOL
      .
      Give it up, Dougless! You don't have a leg to stand on and you know it! LOL
      All your christard friends are running in the other direction with their hands trying to cover their fat asses! LOLOLOL

      May 5, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      The christians do far more persecution, than they get. Try growing up an atheist in America, you'll see what I mean.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • JWT

      The christian rules as stated by some christians mean nothing to non-christians or other chiristians with different beliefs Douglas. Your concepts on Gays etc are only meaningful to you and it's soley your problem to deal with your failures.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Akira

      Someone is under the impression that only atheists support gay rights. Someone is wrong, as usual.

      The Supreme Court will inevitably support equal rights for all of its citizens, and watch for the bigots who could not insert their religion into civil laws froth at the mouth at the injustice of it all...that they cannot impede the civil rights of others.
      Oh well,

      Hairshirt time for the latents.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I don't think dougie understands the Constitution or the separation of church and state. Gay equality is inevitable. It will happen in the U.S. even as it is happening in the majority of the industrialized world.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
  2. Kap

    This just in: Hateful Bigots complain about being perceived as hateful bigots.

    May 5, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      perceived bigotry makes cow mad

      May 5, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • lol??

      Bigot.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • Errday

      Looks like you caught one, Kap! And it's a fat little fucker called "lol??/captainamerica/herbert/etc.
      So easy to troll the stupid haters errday.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • KT

      That's an Onion-worthy headline:-)

      May 5, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • craig

      a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance . Most believers I know are not bigots, we may not agree with something, but not hatred and intolerance. We understand the difference. Jesus said to love your neighbors as your self, but he also said to not get involved in the worldly sinful nature.

      May 17, 2013 at 6:44 pm |
  3. churches

    "Christians as victims" is a meme that knows no bounds. Christians who believe this are crazy. christians who protray this meme are manipulative.

    May 5, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
  4. yalesouth

    Is it not obvious to Christians who feel villified that the problem is not the fact that they believe as they do but that they feel as though their religion is a license to force their beliefs on everyone?

    May 5, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • Bob

      Exactly. I avoid christians as much as possible because I find them intolerant, mean-minded and vindictive. But I don;t stand on a corner saying they should all die.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      yalesouth,

      When was it you last were 'talking' with a Christian who made demands or jilted your "I am better than you" audaciousness a t t I t u d e s ?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      @lionly

      I have had christian coworkers refuse to associate with me after they found out I was an atheist. They acted as though I was the Antichrist personified. That good enough for ya?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • Thomas

      And just how do we "force" our releigion on you? In some countries in the middle east they might kill you or imprision you or family for not following Islam. SO what horrible things are happening to you that Christiams are forcing upon you?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      To err is human, to forgive , bovine !

      May 5, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • robert

      I think it is sad when people refuse to intellectually and sincerely consider the claims of Christianity because they have been offended by the behavior of people who call themselves Christians. I put that in the same category as a person with a terminal illness who refuses to consider a sure cure because they are offended by an experience they had with a doctor sometime in the past.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      @robert,

      What on earth gave you the impression that I have "never seriously considered Christianity" and that I "refuse to do so"?

      No, my friend, I left the church because in the end I was simply unable to believe it, I just felt it was all nonsense.

      Since I have admitted the truth to myself, I must be very careful about who I let know that I'm an atheist. Because of the treatment I receive from Christians.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Thomas
      The lie "in god we trust" on our money
      Changing the pledge of allegience to add your god, excluding all others.
      There are several states that still have on their books that atheists cannot hold public office.
      The "Blue Laws"
      Arkansas , an atheist is not allowed to testify in court.

      There are some examples of how the christians have harmed america by forcing their beliefs on others....do you want more, there are many, many examples.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:49 pm |
    • robert

      When Cows Attack, Sorry about that. I just find oftentimes people that are atheists have never really looked into things like the uniqueness of the Bible, the brilliant story of redemption in Jesus Christ, etc... If you looked into all that objectively without the clutter of bad "Christian" or bad "church" examples and chose to not believe, you certainly have that right and should be respected for it. I guess I would just say that one day we will all know if it was indeed true or not and if it is true there is really a lot at stake. Good luck in your quest.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
    • Richard Cranium

      Robert
      Have you seriously considered any of the other thousands of religions, the thousands of gods they hold dear?
      I doubt it. You probably have rejected most out of hand and may know some things about some of the big ones, but why do you reject the greek gods, the south american gods, the native american gods.... see the point?

      I have always been an atheist but not because my parents were. I was born and raised presbyterian, until I was 6. It was at that point the church asked my parents to not bring me to sunday school, as they could not answer my questions. If it does not stand up to the questions of a 6 year old, it is likely not worth much...the rest of my life I have studies many different religions, trying to find my own way...it all boils down to one simple thing.
      There may or not be gods. It is unlikely, but just as likely as the infinite number of other possibilities.
      The god as described in the bible is impossible.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • sam stone

      " I would just say that one day we will all know if it was indeed true or not"

      not if we just cease to exist

      "true there is really a lot at stake"

      channeling mr. pascal?

      "Good luck in your quest."

      Back atcha

      May 5, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • robert

      Richard, Thanks for your comments. You are right, I have not studied ALL other religions but I have studied some and am comfortable that the ones I have studied do not explain the meaning of life, death, creation or eternity with the same logical force as Christianity. Just my conviction. I do wonder what the basis is for your comment that the God of the Bible is impossible. Just wondering.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
  5. bribarian

    CNN is trying too hard, we get it, you hate America, religion, and Christianity. But at the end of the day you're failing badly.

    May 5, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • tallulah13

      No, bribarian, CNN just hates you!

      May 5, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • yalesouth

      What?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • Bob

      Because the article doesn't see things the way you want, they hate America? How old are you?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • Will of Grace

      Anything that is not in lock step with your limited views of freedom is expressed as a forum of suppression when actually you need to deal with the fact that you lost your white male hetro privilege in 1969. Since then you have fought tooth and nail to get it back, what a surprise to us all.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
    • lol??

      willy grace sayz, "......white male hetro privilege in 1969......"
      Are you in possession of the XX chromed zones??

      May 5, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
  6. JWoody907

    Aww, the poor little Christian bigots are scared because they're finally getting called out for being what they are.

    Strange how the Christians have been the big bully on the playground for oh, SINCE THE ROMAN EMPIRE, but now these pesky concepts of Logic, Reason, and Equality are blowing big holes in their dominance, they want to crawl away and hide because "it's not fair"

    Tough for them. They want to be bigoted, racist, chauvinist, fear-mongers then fine, but the rest of us who live in the real world and bothered to read and think for ourselves get to call them Bigots, Racists, Chauvinists and Fear-Mongers and they have to take it, or change.

    May 5, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • omeany

      or go into denial. You can't fight delusion with reason...unfortunately.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Thomas

      Christians are bigoted and racist? Can we have some examples please.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
  7. JanetMermaid

    Oh, please, HARDLY a minority but enough so-called "good" Christians have been hateful racists and bigots that they give all of them a bad name. If the REAL Christians want to be treated with respect rather than contempt they need to stand up to the hate and bigotry and demand their brethren put a stop to it.

    May 5, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
  8. Reality

    Only for the newbies:

    Hmmm, another Sunday CNN headline and the Belief blog lights up like a holiday tree. To put things into 21st century perspective:

    The Apostles' Creed 2013 (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
    ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen
    (References used are available upon request.)

    May 5, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Eating cheese calms your senses

      May 5, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • lol??

      "....semi-fiction writers......"

      Is that a truck driver who plays games with the log? Give us a metaphor. People are getting bored. Make it about rock N roll.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Come on, cows. How long are you going to milk this joke?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      @tallulah, no kidding.

      Getting a little annoyed with it as I don't really care to be confused with that yahoo.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
  9. thinkandbefree

    Religion is all myth – a nice way of saying a giant pack of lies.

    May 5, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Chill out with some bitto

      May 5, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • Dan

      Christianity IS a myth, even to those who believe it to be true.. I'd recommend you go find out the definition of myth.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • Thomas

      Then don't beleive. But quit trying to keep others from believing or talking about their faith.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Errday

      Fuck you, Thomas! Telling people the truth is too harsh for your soft little head? Too bad.
      We have the right to tell people their religion is utter bullshit and for them to get it the fuck out of our business!
      So fuuuuuuuuuck YOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

      May 5, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
  10. What the hell do science noes anyway?? They can't heal people quick likes THIS!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0-04VDrCbM

    May 5, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Mad cows are obsessed with this one Benny hinn you tube clip. Go figure!

      May 5, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Theseus

      hahahaha, no more need said!

      May 5, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • lenojames

      What is happening is simple. Christians make assertians using the bible, and only the bible as their proof. Then, others come along and point out that their assertions are wrong, with repeatable, verifiable proof.

      Traditionally, Christians would just bully or torture those people into submission, or burn them at the stake. And the would do so with both religious and governmental authority.

      But today, in a country with Separation of Church and State, they can't use torture and execution to preserve their faith. They have to argue, and prove their assertions. And in the marketplace of ideas, they are failing miserably.

      So, without a government to help with enforcement, they revert back to Roman history, and claim to be victims. Christians are being PERSECUTED, and VILLIFIED, and OSTRACIZED for their beliefs!

      And that's because they have such weak support for them.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
  11. Happy Camper

    If christians are feeling persecuted, their church could invite an LGBT person to give a seminar on how to handle vilification and persecution.

    May 5, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      wild cows can do a better job

      May 5, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • lol??

      They are already burdened with seminaries and you want to add to their problems??

      May 5, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • Doobs

      ^ This, times infinity.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Doobs

      I mean that for Happy Camper, NOT lol??

      May 5, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
  12. Lamb of Dog

    If FOX let people post comments all the religous nuts would be over on fox.com and we wouldnt be telling them that they are crazy. But FOX doesnt want to look bad so they dont allow posts.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      They used to have a comment forum, they shut it down for the exact reasons that you supposed.

      Go figure, eh?

      May 5, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      Imagine that. So now they come to cnn to spew their crazy.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • lol??

      Great, you tell em, dog.

      "Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third [day] I shall be perfected."

      May 5, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      This is EXACTLY the case. They all migrated over here as soon as the comment boards on Fox were deleted, all the while complaining about how liberal CNN is.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Hillcrester

      And the discussion here has never been useful since that migration.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • JWoody907

      The concept of FOX not wanting to look stupid is hilarious. Sure they ended discussion forums on their website, but have they bothered to look at their lineup?!

      May 5, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • Thomas

      Or it could have been shut down because the Left just goes over their to make trouble and not want to get into any meaningful dialogue. Ah, the left, will shout from the rooftops how tolerant they are. . . .unless it doesn't agree with their position.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
  13. joanace7

    What really is disturbing is the amount of manipulated ignorance of most people here. Hating and criticizing the Bible when it is evident, most have not read it, studied it, researched topics historical, spiritual, and cultural content and context. It's sad. At least have some responsibility and speak with historical accuracy and certainty. Know facts, dont be so quick to respond, listen, process things.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      I was raised catholic. And I still think that the bible is a silly book.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      You are so wrong- the majority of those of us who criticize it, have read it, studied it, identified as christian at some point in our lives, been there, done that and bought the T-shirt.

      Most atheist are more knowledgeable about the bible than most christians.

      You are the one who is making unfounded suppositions about an entire group of people.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • Observer

      joanace7,

      It's the Christians who haven't read the Bible. They are the ones who ignore the Golden Rule and pretend the Bible mentions abortion, for instance.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      I was forced to go to sunday school. I learned that the church is a place of mass hysteria.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Yeah, cows speak Christianese

      May 5, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • lol??

      Lamb of Dog sayz,
      I was raised catholic."

      There's yer problem. Raising is for vegetables. Add water and they do what they do. Training is for children. Cain got all mixed up 'bout vegetables.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      @lol?

      Right, right, Lamb of Dog was just doing it wrong...how'd I know that was coming?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • yalesouth

      as much as policits has playedin crafting the bible ie in the council of nicea and as much as it has been used as a tool of subjugation (ie re the jews and justifying slavery) you can actually say, with a str8 face, that the bible is key to safeguarding our freedoms as a nation?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • Hillcredster

      If one is a nonbeliever/disbeliever there is no study or research that will make the bible relevant to our lives. I NEVER contest specific claims made on the basis of the bible by using other parts of the bible. To me, it is in its entirely a sort-of history book mixed with a literature book that plays no role in how I live or what I agree or disagree with.

      You are welcome to your beliefs. They are not my beliefs. Please do not join the chorus that claims at some later time I will come to see my error. I am not wrong, for me.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Sharon

      Joanace7: Evidently you aren't quite as informed as you think.

      http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/Survey-of-Bible-Knowledge-ATHEISTS-BEAT-EVANGELICALS.html

      May 5, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I tried reading the bible years ago, but I thought it was dry. The Iliad was a much better read, and there's just as much evidence to support the existence of the Greek pantheon as there is evidence of the existence of the christian god.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
  14. Brooklyn Boy

    Ah yes, the poor, oppressed christians... this is the old Nazi trick where the oppressors play the victim card. These deluded folks are usually thwarted in their efforts to turn this country into some kind of evangelical theocracy. So, when all else fails, they portray themselves as victims. Sadly, many folks are dumb enough to buy it!

    May 5, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Brooklyn cowboy?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • omeany

      They are a manipulative lot. I dared suggest I didn't believe in a need for a savior and was bombarded with a bunch of videos telling me about the horrors of hell and why I'm going there. I guess if you don't have a rational argument you can only threaten people who disagree with you.

      Just to be clear, if any Christians want to argue with me. Here is what I believe and not to be rude but I really don't care if you agree with me or not. I have studied the origins of Christianity and the history of hell and because of what I found I don't believe in hell, I don't think I'm going to heaven because I'm basically a "good" person and I don't know what happens when we die. But then again...NEITHER DO YOU!

      Believing in something does not make it real. I hope there is a heaven and I hope one day we can all live in peace but until we stop judging each other according to these outdated beliefs that's not going to happen.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
  15. jays

    How about live and let live, respect our differences, and stop the belittling on both sides?

    Lol who am I kidding... how would our politicians get elected if there was no hate? They'd actually have to debate on something crazy like the potential ramifications of their policies or something

    May 5, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
  16. cvryder2000

    The only "hated minority" here is hateful "Christians" who cloak their hate and bigotry in religion.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      cvryder200,

      What a minimalist consecration of ill willed colloquialism!

      May 5, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      mad cows are peaceful

      May 5, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Dan

      It's funny how believing a specific behavior is wrong means you're 'hateful' – no matter how you actually treat the people you believe are acting immorally. You could feed them, take care of them, give to them, but if you say that one thing they do is wrong, you must hate them!

      May 5, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      No, Dan, it's trying to deny them basic rights that's the problem.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Paul Jaramillo

      There is no such thing as a Hateful Christian, just a flawed person. There are only Christians and they have nothing to fear, they have been around for 2,000 years. Hatemongers can say anything they want, but lies die quickly.
      The only argument you will get from liberals are lies and vulgarities, because they are ignorant and irrational, no sense of logic, and just childish emotionalism, logic is the foundation of truth.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • faith

      preach it dodo

      May 5, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • faith

      "WhenCowsAttack
      No, Dan, it's trying to deny them basic rights that's the problem."

      y do atheists want to deny them certain rights?

      May 5, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      PJ, You need to work on your logic especially if you're going to accuse others of being emotional and illogical.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • faith

      i hope atheists will be in charge real soon. frankly, i'm tired of voting. atheists r right. xtards have no business voting.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • faith

      plus, they can start murdering fetuses when they are ready for school. women shouldn't have to send that thing to get a christian education. all society is poisoned by xtards, especially r schools. should spare them.

      May 5, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
  17. edd

    Christianity is the most tolerant religion in the world. those of you who say trash about christianity would be silenced in the middle east (where islam is not toyed with). check your history books, the USA (the country of my dream) was founded on christian values and became the Greatest Country in the World. everyday, christians pray fo this country, our leaders, troops, the economy, values and morality, and all we get back is hatred from abortion groups, gay right movements and other form of wayward beleifs with the sole purpose of reducing humans to the same level as animals. By the way, Most scientific research centres are sponsored by christians.
    My question to you gay marriage supporters, how can you support something that has no scientific evidence, (afterall, a fully bearded man with a large penis, with all the testosterone in the world, comes up to say that hes gay) and instead of trying to understand and correct this psyhcological anomaly, you applaud it and support it...why? ..because the media says so? You so called enlightended people sure do lack the ability to think for yourselves and sure are full of hate for those who do and who do not support your stance on something so illogical and unatural.
    You dream of society without christianity, that society will be a very wicked society, where kids are killed before they are born, murder and robbery will be on the rise because when people do not fear God, they certainly will not fear the law...and lets not forget the rise in diseases that result from such unnatural behaviours.
    I am a scientist, a christian and as both i do not support gay marriage, i love gay people, they are my friends and part of my world, they need our help. A Godless society is the begining of the downfall of man.

    May 5, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Blah, blah

      May 5, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • kenny

      some brits would say terrorists founded america, indians would say murderers founded this country, blacks would say murdering slave holders founded this country... do i need to go on about xtians....

      May 5, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I think what edd is trying to say in his own convoluted way is that he really doesn't pay too much attention to stuff like history or science.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Lamb of Dog

      Translation:
      At least christianity isnt as bad as islam.
      If we dont follow christianity you will all be sorry. Because the world will fall apart.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      edd,

      Truth in and of your Word finds favors with mine! 🙂 🙁 🙂

      May 5, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      @ When Cows Run Amok-

      Kindred spirit?

      May 5, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • ..

      There is so much wrong with your post, I wouldn't even know where to start, except to say that being gay isn't a illness, and there isn't a cure for gay any more than there is a cure for hetero.
      You are also a liar. You state you are a scientist, and then act as if being gay is a "psychological anomaly". Bull. You're not a scientist, or you would know that it isn't psychological in origin at all.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • Observer

      edd,

      Why not skip all the hypocrisy?

      If creating babies is the only reason for marriage, elderly people and the sterile should not get married.

      Tell us all about what the Bible says about abortion. Oooops. No "abortion" isn't in the Bible.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "edd", but based on the number of capitalized words in your post, I would strongly recommend that you see a mental health professional as soon as possible. Good luck, "edd".

      May 5, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • tallulah13

      edd's a scientist? Right. Maybe a christian scientist, since that particular cult was created by Mary Baker "Edd"y.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • Sharon

      A godless society will be the beginning of true freedom for mankind.

      May 5, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • Doobs

      "Christianity is the most tolerant religion in the world."

      That's a lie. Isn't lying a sin?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • Larry

      "a godless society" would be an improvement. Look at the number of wars throughout history started by religions. The more juvenile the religion, the more likely some of the adherents will become radicals and try to force everyone to follow their rules. Look at Christianity and Islam as the perfect examples of this.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • Theseus

      You're so wrong. This country was formed on REPUBLIC values. If it was formed on Christians values they wouldn't have wanted others to practice religion freely. This is the oldest argument in the Christian book, that America IS Christian. Despite the religion of the founding fathers, they wanted others to practice their different beliefs if they wanted. Christians today stand on the graves of great leaders and tout nonsense like "they wanted us to be Christians". The most tolerant religion in the world? Shouldn't be surprised that's coming from a Christian mouth... they're not great at recognizing reality.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • Theseus

      Did this Bible touter just say "how can you believe something that has no scientific evidence"... now THAT'S rich! Don't you have someone to raise from the dead?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • John

      I sincerely doubt that you are a scientist. A scientist uses the scientific method in his thoughts. Your extrapolation of the results of not having a christian theology running things neither follows a logical path nor does it agree with other societies that are sucessful without a strict religious code. In fact your complaints about islamic societies, while being bad from a chirstian perpective, emfatically validate why we do not need a theocracy in this country nor in any other.

      May 5, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • craig

      COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER. AMEN.

      May 17, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
  18. lionlylamb

    Gays yes, are 'fairy' nice folks up until you 'get their goat'!

    May 5, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      eat more chikin!

      May 5, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
  19. samuraikatana1

    Oh wow I just feel SO bad for these poor Christians who spout off biblical nonsense and expect everyone else in the world to treat it as sacredly as they do. Give me a freaking break...

    May 5, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Time for the almighty cows to take over

      May 5, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
  20. faith

    "Observer
    Chad,

    "Historical evidence – no historical detail in the bible has ever been proved to be incorrect"

    Absolute NONSENSE. Why spread such ignorance?

    – II Chronicles 22:2 “Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in
    Jerusalem.” [KJV]
    – II Kings 8:26 “Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.”

    OOOPS!"

    no apology. figures. lie. lie some more. if it makes u feel good

    May 5, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • When cows run amok

      Got milk

      May 5, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • Observer

      faith,

      Are you really brainless enough to say I am lying when I quote EXACTLY what the Bible says?

      May 5, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.