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When Christians become a 'hated minority'
Evangelical Christians say they are the new victims of intolerance - they're persecuted for condemning homosexuality.
May 5th, 2013
06:00 AM ET

When Christians become a 'hated minority'

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - When Peter Sprigg speaks publicly about his opposition to homosexuality, something odd often happens.

During his speeches, people raise their hands to challenge his assertions that the Bible condemns homosexuality, but no Christians speak out to defend him.

“But after it is over, they will come over to talk to me and whisper in my ear, ‘I agree with everything you said,’" says Sprigg, a spokesman for The Family Research Council, a powerful, conservative Christian lobbying group.

We’ve heard of the “down-low” gay person who keeps his or her sexual identity secret for fear of public scorn. But Sprigg and other evangelicals say changing attitudes toward homosexuality have created a new victim: closeted Christians who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality but will not say so publicly for fear of being labeled a hateful bigot.

As proof, Sprigg points to the backlash that ESPN commentator Chris Broussard sparked recently. Broussard was called a bigot and a purveyor of hate speech when he said an NBA player who had come out as gay was living in “open rebellion to God.” Broussard said the player, Jason Collins, was “living in unrepentant sin” because the Bible condemns homosexuality.

“In the current culture, it takes more courage for someone like Chris Broussard to speak out than for someone like Jason Collins to come out,” says Sprigg, a former pastor. “The media will hail someone who comes out of the closet as gay, but someone who simply expresses their personal religious views about homosexual conduct is attacked.”

When is disagreement hate?

Bryan Litfin, a theology professor at Moody Bible Institute in Illinois, says Christians should be able to publicly say that God designed sex to take place within a marriage between a man and a woman.

“That isn’t so outrageous,” Litfin says. “Nobody is expressing hate toward homosexuals by saying that. Since when is disagreement the same as hate?”

But quoting the Bible doesn't inoculate anyone from becoming a bigot or hater, some scholars say. There's a point at which a Christian's opposition to homosexuality can become bigotry, and even hate speech, they say.

Crossing such a line has happened many times in history.

A literal reading of the Bible was used to justify all sorts of hatred: slavery, the subjugation of women and anti-Semitism, scholars and pastors say.

“Truly damaging speech cannot be excused just because it expresses genuine religious belief,” says Mark D. Jordan, author of “Recruiting Young Love: How Christians Talk about Homosexuality.”

“Some religious beliefs, sincerely held, are detestable. They cannot be spoken without disrupting social peace,” says Jordan, a professor at the John Danforth Center on Religion & Politics at Washington University in St. Louis.

The point where religious speech becomes hate speech is difficult to define, though, scholars and activists say.

The Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama is a nonprofit civil rights group that combats and monitors hate groups. Three years ago, it designated the Family Research Council, the group that Sprigg represents, as a hate group - a characterization the group stridently rejects.

Mark Potok,  a center spokesman, says there’s no shared definition of what constitutes hate speech.

“There is no legal meaning. It’s just a phrase,” Potok says. “Hate speech is in the ear of the beholder.”

'One of the most hated minorities?'

Intolerance may be difficult to define, but some evangelicals say they have become victims of intolerance because of their reverence for the Bible.

The conservative media culture is filled with stories about evangelicals being labeled as “extremists” for their belief that homosexuality is a sin.

Their sense of persecution goes beyond their stance on homosexuality. There are stories circulating of evangelical students being suspended for opposing homosexuality, a teacher fired for giving a Bible to a curious student, and the rise of anti-Christian bigotry.

A blogger at The American Dream asked in one essay:

“Are evangelical Christians rapidly becoming one of the most hated minorities in America?”

The reluctance of evangelicals to speak out against homosexuality is often cited as proof they are being forced into the closet.

Joe Carter, editor for The Gospel Coalition, an online evangelical magazine, wrote a blog post entitled “Debatable: Is the Christian Church a ‘Hate Group’?" He warned that young people will abandon “orthodox” Christian churches that teach that homosexuality is a sin for fear of being called haters.

“Faux civility, embarrassment, prudishness and a fear of expressing an unpopular opinion has caused many Christians to refrain from explaining how homosexual conduct destroys lives,” Carter wrote.

Some Christians fear that opposing homosexuality could cause them to lose their jobs and “haunt them forever,” Carter says.

“It’s easier to just go along,” says Carter, who is also author of “How to Argue Like Jesus.” “You don’t want to be lumped in with the bigots. That’s a powerful word."

Edward Johnson, a communication professor at Campbell University in North Carolina, says we are now living in a "postmodern" era where everything is relative and there is no universally accepted truth. It's an environment in which anyone who says "this is right" and "that is wrong" is labeled intolerant, he says.

There was a time when a person could publicly say homosexuality was wrong and people could consider the statement without anger, he says. Today, people have reverted to an intellectual tribalism where they are only willing to consider the perspective of their own tribe.

“They are incapable of comprehending that someone may have a view different than theirs,” Johnson says. “For them anyone who dares to question the dogma of the tribe can only be doing so out of hatred.”

Sprigg, from the Family Research Council, says his condemnation of homosexual conduct does not spring from intolerance but a desire to protect gays from harmful conduct, he says.

Sprigg, a senior fellow for policy studies at the council, wrote in a council pamphlet that homosexual men are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are straight men. He also wrote that gay men are also afflicted with a higher rate of sexually transmitted diseases and mental illness as well.

Sprigg says he does not believe homosexuality is a choice and that “personal testimonies" and "clinical experience” show that some people “can and do change from gay to straight.”

“Maybe we need to do a better job of showing that we are motivated by Christian love,” Sprigg says. “Love is wanting the best for someone, and acting to bring that about.”

'That's a lie'

Potok, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, has little use for the love Sprigg talks about.

He calls it hatred, and his voice rose in anger when he talked about the claims by Sprigg and other Christian groups that gay men are more predisposed to molest children and that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful.

He says the Southern Poverty Law Center didn’t designate the Family Research Group a hate group because they view homosexuality as a sin or oppose same-sex marriage, Potok says. There are plenty of Christian groups who hold those beliefs but are not hate groups, he says.

A group becomes a hate group when it attacks and maligns an entire class of people for their “immutable characteristics,” Potok says. The Family Research Council spreads known falsehoods about gays and lesbians, he says, such as the contention that gay men are predisposed to abuse children.

“That’s a lie,” Potok says. “These guys are engaging in straight-up defamation of a very large group of people. There are not many things much worse than you can say in America about somebody than they are a child molester.”

Potok scoffed at Spriggs’ claim that the council and other evangelical anti-gay groups are victims of intolerance.

“That’s whining on the part of people who spend their days and nights attacking gay people and then some people criticize them and they don’t like it,” he says. “That’s pathetic. It reminds me of slave owners complaining that people are saying ugly things about them.”

What the Bible says

What about the popular evangelical claim, “We don’t hate the sinner, just the sin” – is that seen as intolerance or hate speech when it comes to homosexuality?

There are those who say you can’t hate the sin and love the sinner because being gay or lesbian is defined by one’s sexual behavior; it’s who someone is.

“Most people who identify as gay and lesbian would say that this is not an action I’m choosing to do; this is who I am,” says Timothy Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible: The Unexpected History of an Accidental Book.”

Beal, a religion professor at Case Western University in Ohio, says it should be difficult for any Christian to unequivocally declare that the Bible opposes homosexuality because the Bible doesn’t take a single position on the topic. It's an assertion that many scholars and mainline Protestant pastors would agree with.

Some people cite Old Testament scriptures as condemning homosexuality, such as  Leviticus 18:22 - “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” But other Christians counter by saying they are not bound by the Old Testament.

There are those who also cite New Testament scriptures like Romans 1:26-27 - “… Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men. …”

Beal, however, says Jesus said little about sex. And the Apostle Paul, who wrote Romans, was probably referring to male prostitution and men having sexual relations with boys, a practice in the Greco-Roman world.

“Paul does not understand genetics and sexual orientation the way we understand it now as something much more than a choice,” says Beal.

Some evangelicals say Christians can’t change their view of biblical truth just because times change. But some scholars reply:

Sure you can. Christians do it all the time.

Denying a woman’s ability to preach in church was justified by scriptures like 1 Timothy 2:11-12 - “… I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” But many churches have abandoned that teaching - and some scholars say a woman preached the first Christian sermon, when Mary Magdalene proclaimed that Jesus had risen.

Slaveholders in 19th century America justified slavery through a literal reading of the Bible, quoting Titus 2:9-10 – “Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything. …” And anti-Semitism was justified by the claims that Jews killed Jesus, such as Matthew 27: 25-26 - “Let his blood be on us and on our children.”

Litfin, from Moody Bible Institute, acknowledged that the Bible once sanctioned slavery, but he said that practice was a “cultural expression” that changed over time. Evangelicals who oppose same-sex marriage by citing the Bible are on more solid ground, he says.

“Marriage is a universal and timeless institution that God set up for maximum human flourishing. He set it up in the first book of the Bible with the story of Adam and Eve. It is consistent throughout the whole Bible. … Marriage is in a different category than those cultural things.”

Public jousts over the Bible's stance on homosexuality rarely change people’s minds. What changes is when people get to know gay and lesbian people as friends and hear their story, says Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible.”

“If you open up to that other person genuinely, you basically come to a point where you have to sacrifice them to your ideology or crack open your ideology to make a hospitable place for them,” Beal says.

One Christian pastor who is gay says the uproar over the ESPN commentator’s comments can actually be good,  because debates help settle moral disputes.

“What appears to us as antiquated and prejudicial now was once a disputed issue that required debate,” says the Rev. Richard McCarty, a minister in the United Church of Christ and a religious studies professor at Mercyhurst University in Pennsylvania.

Until the debate over homosexuality is settled - if it ever is - there may be plenty of evangelical Christians who feel as if they are now being forced to stay in the closet.

Carter, the evangelical blogger, says he foresees a day when any church that preaches against homosexuality will be marginalized. Just as many churches now accept divorce, they will accept sexual practices once considered sinful.

“It’s getting to the point,” he says, “where churches are not going to say that any sexual activity is wrong.”

- CNN Writer

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Christianity • Church • Church and state • Culture wars • Protest • Sex • Sexuality • Sports

soundoff (10,982 Responses)
  1. Jeff

    Troy, you are right. I simply have a lack of belief.

    May 5, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
    • Troy

      Me too, but I also know that my lack of belief has no bearing on reality. And since the Universe is a big place, it's just impossible to say. Either way, no God is interferring with us.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:54 pm |
    • Hillcrester

      I describe myself as a devout disbeliever.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
  2. otherside

    all u americanos r christen, u just dont now it.keep fighting each other

    May 5, 2013 at 10:50 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      OtherSnide, what the hell are you talking about?

      May 5, 2013 at 11:07 pm |
  3. akmac65

    The issue isn't that they are Christians, the issue is that they cannot or will not distinguish between belief (essentially opinion) and fact. That they believe in a literal interpretation of the bible is fine as long as they realize that their interpretation is not binding on the rest of us. When people use quotes from the bible, accurate or not, to justify prejudice and persecution they are no less a bigot than one who is simply ignorant.

    May 5, 2013 at 10:49 pm |
    • Hillcrester

      Exactly. The claim that their beliefs are "truths" leads them to intolerant efforts to use the law to impose those beliefs on everyone. That must be put down. The intensity of their claim for universality must be met by an equal fervor in opposing that claim. If they won't voluntarily "render unto Caesar," then it must be forced on them. I really don't care what their bible says–that applies to them, not to me.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:57 pm |
    • faith

      for example...

      May 5, 2013 at 11:04 pm |
  4. Jeff

    Can't prove a negative

    May 5, 2013 at 10:49 pm |
    • snyskies

      Come on Jeff, you gotta be a little more aware than that ..... at some point everyone takes leaps of faith – atleast I'm honest and aware of mine.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
    • Troy

      You are both full of yourselves.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
    • Austin

      Jeff, when i was reading through the old testament, i was having dreams about what i was going to read, to t , and i have no clue what the subject was about at all, not the entire book , let alone the minute details that were revealed to me.

      This is the work of the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit is a sanctifying spirit that bears the truth of God's word on a persons heart.

      What happened through the Holy Spirit and Gods word, was the most supernaturally miraculous thing that I have experienced,and it was so incredibally awesome that I will never be the same person that I was. The Lord has redeemed this lost soul, and I was like Paul. I was an enemy of the cross.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:55 pm |
    • mama k

      are you published somewhere with this material, Austin – you know through a publisher? Can we go to a bookstore or rent a video that would be evidence of your claims? I think you're full of shit. I could claim I was a walrus yesterday and you'd have to trust my claim just as much based on the evidence you've shown so far week after week of plastering this BS on these boards.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:10 pm |
    • Hepcat

      koo koo ka choo

      May 5, 2013 at 11:13 pm |
    • Troy

      Austin is a fine example of someone living in their own world. It's not safe for these people to be let loose in society.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
  5. Jeff

    There is no God, so get over it

    May 5, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • snyskies

      Prove it.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
    • Troy

      Atheists and theists are all the same. You think you know but you can't know. Just accept that you can't know. Both of you.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:50 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Troy

      You said, "Atheists and theists are all the same. You think you know but you can't know. Just accept that you can't know. Both of you."
      I acknowledge that there is a non-zero chance that there are gods, but without evidence they exist it is unreasonable to believe that they do. Assigning specific traits to a creature for which there is no evidence that it exists is irrational.

      While the claim that there are no gods is unsupported, it is far more reasonable than the unsupported claim that there are.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:56 pm |
    • Austin

      Lin CA
      you have to listen to what i am saying to you.

      I experienced supernatural revelaion of Gods word. I experienced the direct revealing of scripture in my dreams. This was the Holy Spirit, or angelic ministry.

      There is absolutely no other answer to this question any more. I was supernaturally acquainted with THE BIBLE. why was it THE BIBLE that I dreamed about while i was reading it? why was it not the news paper?

      May 5, 2013 at 11:05 pm |
    • Troy

      @LinCA I think the question is too big to apply that logic. There are something that just cannot be know. What happened before the big bang? Can't know. Accepting that there is no answer is far better than making one up and accepting it.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
    • Troy

      However "reasonable" it may seem.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Austin

      Indoctrination is a powerful tool. If you want to believe, go right ahead. If you wish to convince me, you'll need to bring a little more.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:19 pm |
    • Hepcat

      LinCA is someone who worships ignorance, pretending to know the levels of other people's ignorance.
      A militant agnostic who will insist we have no proof when we have nothing BUT proof that there are no gods.
      Define "god", test for existence using logic and data. Specific types of gods will have specific types of proof.
      All of them fail the existence test as well as failing to meet the definition of a god.
      Conclusion: LinCA wants desperately for there to be uncertainty instead of acknowledging all of human knowledge.
      Why? No doubt this is a personal psychological thing.
      Clinging to uncertainty when certainty is known is a sign of mental illness. Refusing to face reality is denial.
      The existence of a god is testable and has been tested. LinCA is fail.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:20 pm |
    • Troy

      @Hepcat, I think you're talking about the wrong person. I'm the agnostic. Militant? Hardly. There is no test that can be made to find God. No amount of shouting from people that come to a conclusion about the universe and lives on a planet and has never left that planet to explore the rest of the universe can hardly give their 2 cents on the matter. Your logic and hatred for truth is a stain on humanity.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Troy

      You said, "I think the question is too big to apply that logic."
      Why? What makes a belief in gods any different from a belief in the Tooth Fairy?

      You said, "There are something that just cannot be know."
      Agreed.

      You said, "What happened before the big bang? Can't know. Accepting that there is no answer is far better than making one up and accepting it."
      I accept, wholeheartedly, that there are things I don't know. I accept that there is far more that I don't know than that I do. But I'm not making up any answers. So why would making shit up and calling it a religion get a pass? Everyone is free to believe that nonsense but without evidence to back up the core belief, it is not any better than believing the Easter Bunny exists. Without any supporting evidence there simply is no reason to believe the claim.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
    • Troy

      And I hope that your clinging to certainty makes you sleep well.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Hepcat

      You said, "The existence of a god is testable and has been tested."
      Ignorant fuck, care to share the test results?

      May 5, 2013 at 11:27 pm |
    • Troy

      @LinCA maybe I am confused, I thought you were atheist. I am agnostic, just to clarify. I know nothing.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:29 pm |
    • Hepcat

      @LinCA
      Test it yourself, punk. I struck a nerve, didn't I?
      Do you even acknowledge the fact that the question is testable? Or will you retreat into sophistry some more?

      May 5, 2013 at 11:32 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Troy

      You said, "I thought you were atheist. I am agnostic, just to clarify. I know nothing."
      The two are not mutually exclusive.

      Theism and atheism are about belief, or the lack thereof. Gnosticism and agnosticism are about knowledge, or the lack thereof.

      It is pretty common to acknowledge not to have knowledge about the existence of gods, but in light of the complete and utter lack of any evidence in favor of their existence, not believe they exist.

      I am both.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:32 pm |
    • Austin

      Hepcat,

      Ill by you lunch and we can talk about how I know there is a God because He has revealed Himself in my life.

      austoni42@gmail.com

      May 5, 2013 at 11:36 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Hepcat

      You said, "Test it yourself, punk."
      So you've got nothing. I thought so.

      You said, "I struck a nerve, didn't I?"
      Don't flatter yourself. Dimwits like yourself don't get a rise out of me.

      You said, "Do you even acknowledge the fact that the question is testable?"
      Every time I propose a test, I get the response from believers that their god doesn't allow himself to be tested in that way.

      I've asked believers to play a game of trust (something believers seem to pride themselves on). I ask them to pray to their god and ask him to catch them as they allow themselves to fall backward onto a concrete floor. Without fail, all refuse to do so.

      Your god is indistinguishable from a figment of your imagination.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:39 pm |
    • Hepcat

      @Austin
      I wouldn't trust you with roadkill, much less my email address. Go die in a fire.
      You will never learn how badly you've been brainwashed because death is a cessation, not a waypoint.
      I refuse to waste my time with crazy people other than to heap well-deserved scorn upon all of youl on the internet.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:40 pm |
    • Hepcat

      @LinCA
      Oh, I know I struck a nerve. Don't bother denying it. But then you love denial, don't you? Sad.
      .
      Test results: No gods exist.
      There! That wasn't very hard, although I am sure it will be unsatisfactory to you. ha ha ha.
      .
      Okay, seriously now, I tried to spell it out to you, but perhaps I am overestimating your perceptiveness. I do that a lot.
      One: definition of a god – look it up.
      Two: examine the definition. Can a super-being be considered a god if they have zero interaction with this continuum? No.
      Being a god requires interaction with this continuum.
      =You are trying to pretend that there "may be" a god that does nothing we can examine, test, discover, perceive, etc.
      In other words, the god of Spinoza (who was a clueless fuck much like yourself), is what you want to believe "may" exist despite zero indication (testable also) that such a super-being exists in any way.
      Conservation of energy means there is no interaction, period.
      This continuum is closed. Nothing happens beyond physics. There are no metaphysics whatsoever, no magic, nothing supernatural or ANYTHING like that. NOTHING. Wishful thinking does not affect anything physical here beyond the person's psychological profile.
      With no metaphysics, no magic, no influence from mental exertions like praying, etc. to be seen even at the quantum level, any and all claims to the contrary, including your whiny "oh it might exist" bullshit, require proof to the contrary because the field has already been cleared. The game is over. There are no gods.
      You want more? I got more. I got more logic to burn your ignorant-loving ass with all day long. Come at me, bro.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:02 am |
    • Austin

      Hepcat.........
      Road kill?

      One day a kitten was on my porch, and that night I dreamed there was a dead persons spirit singing in a demonic dual tone voice, which inverted y body in the dream, the same cat , a white kitten ran underneath me with blood gushing out of it.

      I woke up and knew this was wierd, and sure enough, the cat had gotten hit by a car and was dead on the highway.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:12 am |
    • LinCA

      @Hepcat, or should I say Rational Humanist or Sum Dude

      I guess I should have recognized your toxic style earlier. I was fooled by your new moniker. My mistake. It is kinda sad that you have to change your name to get people to engage with you, don't you think?

      Believe all you want.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:14 am |
    • Hepcat

      Austin, you should play in the street more. Seriously.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:15 am |
    • Hepcat

      @LinCA – Giving up already? Good. You are learning to avoid those smarter than you. Clever strategy there, bub.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:16 am |
    • Austin

      Ahahahaha that was funny.

      Seriously, I will fly to your city and buy you lunch at the airport and show you this evidence .

      May 6, 2013 at 12:19 am |
    • faith

      "The philosophical question that has not been answered in origin-of-life studies is this: How can a universe of mindless matter produce beings with intrinsic ends, self-replication capabilities, and "coded chemistry"? Here we are not dealing with biology, but an entirely different category of problem."

      "the only reason which I have for beginning to think of believing in a First Cause god is the impossibility of providing a naturalistic account of the origin of the first reproducing organisms." flew

      hipcat is a loudmouth know-nothing birdbrain Nazi god-hating fascist little sambo

      May 6, 2013 at 12:21 am |
    • Hepcat

      @LinCA – Oh, and thanks for the grade. Toxic? lol
      Like I said, you worship uncertainty. You love being in denial. I spell it out for you as best I can, but I see I am constantly overestimating you. I thought you had more guts to face facts, but no. I am often wrong about people's abilities because I have no way of knowing how stupid they are without lots of cross-checking. Live and learn.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:21 am |
    • Dorothy

      Faith, how did you know?

      May 6, 2013 at 12:23 am |
    • Hepcat

      @faith
      I was a believer once. Now I am free of your brand of madness. I am stronger and more moral than your god because your god does not exist. I shit on your god. I shit on your Jesus. I shit on you. You should thank me for making you all smell better than usual.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:25 am |
    • Austin

      Spiritually dead wrong and ......well it isn't good.

      Hepcat, you are wrong. I have proof. And I always will. You are left out in the dark.

      It's not too late. For you.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:26 am |
    • LinCA

      @Hepcat

      You, smarter? Don't flatter yourself. Excluding every possibility beyond what you think you know, makes you a dumbfuck believer. How smart can you be?

      Your argument holds true if, and only if, the current understanding of the universe holds true, and only if ours is the only possible universe. I make no such assumptions.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:34 am |
    • Hepcat

      Austin, you are quite the troll, or should I say Chad? Really, if you wanted to convert me, you could prove it to me right now...but you can't because your god doesn't exist. Gosh.
      You would love to hunt me down, just as I would love to hear of your death. Good times.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:37 am |
    • Hepcat

      @LinCA
      I am making no assumptions. You are the believer here. I ruled those things out using logic, not your brand of denial.
      Ironic how you accuse me of what you are doing so blatantly. I did not dismiss them out of hand. I have an excellent grasp of physics, the scientific method, etc. You apparently do not.
      You are the one dismissing all of the science you can't handle in a bid to cling to your fantasy of "maybe" when it has already been dismissed using logic. You can argue okay against the fundies, but you are seriously lacking smarts in trying to bullshit me with your cognitive and perceptual biases.
      You remember biases? They are what you are using to cling to your fantasy.
      So ironic that you accuse me of what you do. There's a word for that, you know....

      May 6, 2013 at 12:46 am |
  6. SeaTigr

    You know, I've never understood the concept that, if the NT is true, Jesus died for our sins and all of us are going to the fiery Pit unless we have faith – no amount of good works will do.

    I mean, honestly, what kind of bovine excrement omniscient being designs a universe that obeys a set of rules (physics), but designs a sentient being that He will then cast into eternal torment at death – no matter how good the being was during its life – unless that being has faith in His son? Seriously..."Yes, I gave you a flawed design. But even if you overcome the limitations of that flawed design, I'm still going to condemn you to an eternity of torment – unless you believe in one religion out of the thousands that have existed." So, basically, somebody who lived a good life but was never exposed to Christianity (believe it or not, that IS possible in numerous areas of the world) is going to the Pit because they weren't lucky enough to meet a Christian?

    Count me out on worshipping a deity who is that much of a s.o.b.

    May 5, 2013 at 10:43 pm |
    • TR in ATL

      What 'right' do you have to anything different? Where does that right come from? It's really very simple. He created you, He can do whatever He chooses to you and with you.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
    • LinCA

      @TR in ATL

      What makes your imaginary friend any different from the Easter Bunny? Do you have any credible evidence it exists?

      May 5, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
    • Austin

      yes evidence and proof

      Jeff, when i was reading through the old testament, i was having dreams about what i was going to read, to t , and i have no clue what the subject was about at all, not the entire book , let alone the minute details that were revealed to me.

      This is the work of the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit is a sanctifying spirit that bears the truth of God's word on a persons heart.

      What happened through the Holy Spirit and Gods word, was the most supernaturally miraculous thing that I have experienced,and it was so incredibally awesome that I will never be the same person that I was. The Lord has redeemed this lost soul, and I was like Paul. I was an enemy of the cross.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
    • snyskies

      Lin ... the good news is that even though you are struggling with God, this world and yourself, He loves you and will continue to puruse your heart ... He'll never stop!!!

      May 5, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
    • LinCA

      @snyskies

      You said, "the good news is that even though you are struggling with God"
      I don't. I shed my infantile beliefs before I was 10 years old.

      You said, "He loves you and will continue to puruse your heart ... He'll never stop!!!"
      It really makes no difference to me what you think your imaginary friend does or feels. Your god is just as likely to exist as the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. Feel free to believe that utter bullshit, but I'll pass.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:07 pm |
    • Austin

      because He is sooooo faithful. That while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:07 pm |
    • mama k

      are you published somewhere with this material, Austin – you know through a publisher? Can we go to a bookstore or rent a video that would be evidence of your claims?

      May 5, 2013 at 11:08 pm |
    • snyskies

      Lin, you and I both know that you know the truth ... I've wrestled and continue to at times, but God has promised that even when we are unfaithful, He is still ... Christ continues to pursue you with His life.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:11 pm |
    • LinCA

      @snyskies

      You said, "Lin, you and I both know that you know the truth"
      Do you? It doesn't look like it from where I'm sitting. You appear to be a clueless believer.

      You said, "I've wrestled and continue to at times"
      Maybe you should explore that doubt a little more closely.

      You said, "but God has promised"
      Bullshit. All you have is an ancient fairy tale. Nothing more than bronze age folklore.

      Wake up.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
    • snyskies

      Lin, it is truly wonderful when one experiences the love and presence of Christ in their lives ... I will continue to pray for you – that you will know this someday! Yes, I struggle, but I'm honest with that and have explored that. The apostle Peter once responded to Christ's question about whether Peter was going to abandon him too with this beautiful and heartfelt phrase, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life" [John 6:68]. Jesus said, "Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." [John 20:29] ... Good news!

      May 5, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
    • LinCA

      @snyskies

      You said, "it is truly wonderful when one experiences the love and presence of Christ in their lives"
      I understand that it is reassuring for some to think they have someone watching over them. That doesn't mean there really is someone.

      You said, "I will continue to pray for you"
      You do that, and I will continue to think for you.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
    • snyskies

      Lin, thank-you .. it is nice to be thought of ... I know you will encounter Christ. There is nothing wrong with hope in such a dark world, but Christ promises that He'll return someday and make things right.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:36 pm |
    • LinCA

      For, not of.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:42 pm |
    • snyskies

      Lin,

      I tried to post this once and not sure what happened? I have to get some sleep, but thank-you for a respectful conversation – rare on these sites, even though we might disagree. Blessings.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:03 am |
  7. mama k

    This "problem" is nothing new. Christianity has always been conflicted – certain issues make that conflict more obvious. One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over four million members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage. (And they aren't the only large denomination performing same-sex marriages.)

    Thomas Jefferson hit the nail on the head over 200 years ago:

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    (from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

    Some claim that Christianity and science are not incompatible, yet we find many who continue to ignore science on the issue of homosexuality. Is the problem poor education, steadfastness to one's own flavor of biblical interpretation, or both?

    The following is long, but note the quote from Professor MIchael King below in the section on psychology.
    =========================================================
    Psychology

    The American Psychological Association states "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people", and says most people's sexual orientation is determined at an early age. Research into how sexual orientation in males may be determined by genetic or other prenatal factors plays a role in political and social debates about homosexuality, and also raises concerns about genetic profiling and prenatal testing."

    Professor Michael King states: "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."

    The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:

    "Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice."

    Biology

    The following is from the article:

    Homosexuality ultimately a result of gene regulation, researchers find (12/11/2012 – LiveScience)

    [ The search for a "gay gene" may be off-target, new research finds. Another process called epigenetics that switches genes on and off may explain why homosexuality runs in families.

    Epigenetics are heritable changes caused by factors other than DNA. Instead of traits getting passed down through the genes, epigenetic change happens because of the way genes are regulated, or turned on and off.

    These genetic regulators may be the reason homosexuality persists in nature despite the fact that gay people are less likely to reproduce, suggests the new study published in the journal The Quarterly Review of Biology.

    "These things have evolved because they're good for the parents, but they sometimes, not [with] high frequency, but sometimes carry over" into offspring, study researcher William Rice, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, told LiveScience. In a male fetus, Rice and his colleagues write, an epigenetic change that benefited the mother may lead to "feminization" of sexual preference — homo- or bisexuality. The same may be true for epigenetic changes passed down by dad to a female fetus. (The terms feminization and masculinization of sexual preference refer to sexual orientation only — not to physical or personality traits of the offspring.)

    The findings add to past research suggesting gay men haven't died out, because female relatives of gay men tend to have more children on average than other females. The study researchers specifically found that two genes passed on through the maternal line could produce this effect.

    Hormones, epigenetics and orientation

    Rice and his colleagues focused on epi-marks, which are molecular changes that act like temporary "switches" to turn genes on and off. If a gene is a blueprint, the epi-mark is the construction foreman who makes sure the product gets built. An epi-mark also determines when, where and how much a gene is expressed, according to the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis.

    These molecular switches are usually erased very early in the developmental process, but they can be passed down from generation to generation, too, Rice said.

    Some epi-marks are particularly important during fetal development, when they promote normal physical development in the sexes despite natural variations in testosterone during pregnancy. Researchers know that fetal exposure to too much testosterone can masculinize the genitals, brain or behavior of a genetically female fetus. Likewise, too little testosterone can make a genetically male fetus more feminized.

    But here's the catch: There's lots of overlap between the levels of testosterone male and female fetuses get exposed to. That means there must be another side to the story, Rice and his colleagues wrote.

    That side appears to be epigenetics, Rice said.

    "Early in development, we think these epi-marks are laid down so that girl fetuses will be relatively insensitive to testosterone and male fetuses will be relatively sensitive to testosterone," Rice said.

    Biological behavior

    Thus, if an epi-mark that kept a mother from getting exposed to high testosterone in development gets passed on to her son — the opposite sex — it could desensitize him to testosterone, contributing to his sexual preference for men. Similarly, if a male-specific epi-mark from dad gets passed to a daughter, it could "masculinize" her sexual preference, making her more interested in women.

    These findings could explain why twin studies show that homosexuality runs in families, but no "gay gene" can be found, Rice said. In identical twins, there's about a 20 percent chance that if one twin is gay, the other will be too. If genetic change were responsible for homosexuality, you'd expect a much higher match, Rice said. Epigenetics, however, can explain the heritability without the need for a specific genetic change.

    The hypothesis could be tested by examining epigenetic marks in parents of kids with gay versus straight offspring, Rice said. There are, of course, concerns that this knowledge could be used by parents who want to avoid gay offspring, Rice said, but that concern already exists around certain hormonal conditions in utero, which are known to contribute to an increased chance of offspring being lesbians.

    "That cat's already out of the bag," Rice said. He added that an understanding of the biological underpinnings of homosexuality could help emphasize that same-sex behavior is not "unnatural."

    "In fact, it's a major part of the natural world," Rice said. Fourteen percent of Western gulls raise chicks in female-female pairs, he pointed out. And 8 percent of male sheep show zero interest in fertile ewes, but get sexually excited by other rams. ]
    ========================================================

    Whenever... preachers, instead of a lesson in religion, put [their congregation] off with a discourse on the Copernican system, on chemical affinities, on the construction of government, or the characters or conduct of those administering it, it is a breach of contract, depriving their audience of the kind of service for which they are salaried, and giving them, instead of it, what they did not want, or, if wanted, would rather seek from better sources in that particular art of science.

    (Thomas Jefferson)

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    (James Madison, chief architect of the U.S. Constitution, framer of the first ten Amendments; from A Memorial and Remonstrance as delivered to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785.)

    May 5, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • snyskies

      24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for [p]a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed [q]forever. Amen.

      26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. [Romans 1; NASB]

      May 5, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • Observer

      snyskies,

      Pick and choose what you want and ignore all the sins of heteros in bed.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
    • snyskies

      Observer,

      Who is picking 'sins'? The Bible teaches that all have done wrong [sinned] and come short of the glory of God ... this is the good news of Jesus Christ – that if we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins! This is good news indeed!

      May 5, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
    • Austin

      observer, that is a good point but one that is also a rationalization for doing wrong. sodomy is the issue and it pertains to every human being. but it is impossible to hide for same se.x couples. so be it. no Christian can rationalize and ignore any part of scripture for the sake of se.xual immorality.

      IT IS NOT WORTH IT FOR ONE SECOND.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:28 pm |
    • Austin

      observer, that is a good point but one that is also a rationalization for doing wrong. sodomy is the issue and it pertains to every human being. but it is impossible to hide for same se.x couples. so be it. no Christian can rationalize and ignore any part of scripture for the sake of se.xual immorality.

      IT IS NOT WORTH IT FOR ONE SECOND. P.orn is just as bad.! this is basic baal worship. This is se,xual idolatry.

      22But Samuel replied:

      “Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
      as much as in obeying the Lord?
      To obey is better than sacrifice,
      and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
      23For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
      and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
      Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
      he has rejected you as king.”

      May 5, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
    • mama k

      Just for the record, from what Austin replied with here, it's safe to say he is condemning the over four million ELCA members and the roughly one million United Church of Christ members to hell since they are already marrying gays. Wow – way to go Austin.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:42 pm |
    • Hepcat

      I guess Austin is the pope, secretly trolling the CNN Belief Blog. Small world, ain't it?
      Or maybe he thinks he's Jesus, able to judge with supernatural perfection the souls of everyone on the earth.
      In any case, Austin is a prime example of why Christians are hated by so many other people – crazy hypocrites who can't think their way out of a wet paper bag yet who have no problem talking endlessly about their imaginary gods who don't exist.
      Talking without knowledge. We see a lot of that here, don't we.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:12 am |
  8. ha

    literally sounds exactly like what the KKK said in the 80s

    May 5, 2013 at 10:34 pm |
  9. Douglas

    Gay relations are a sin within the context of Christian doctrine, both Old and New Testament
    (we have all the bases covered in the good book)

    If you want to have gay relations...you can't call yourself a Christian.

    That settles it!

    May 5, 2013 at 10:32 pm |
    • LinCA

      ... according to your interpretation.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Gay people are perfectly able, and many are willing, to call themselves Christian. Have you ever had homosexual coitus, Douglas?

      May 5, 2013 at 10:35 pm |
    • mama k

      Oh – looks like I got back just in time. I have a post for your, Douglas- maybe you missed it the first time. I'll have to put it in as a new post though since it's kind of big.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:37 pm |
    • Douglas

      Tom...why would I want to commit a sin like that?

      Paul talked about the price to be paid for gay coitus...hence we have an explosion of STDs and AIDS.

      You may want to participate in the bug chasing...not me...no thanks!

      May 5, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • smokey

      You're also not supposed to judge. Or did you miss that part?

      May 5, 2013 at 10:40 pm |
    • smokey

      Douglas, why don't you leave it to God to decide who can "be" a Christian, and who can't. Mind your business. And take the beam out of your own eye. For the record, I'm not a Christian.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:42 pm |
    • Douglas

      Chrisitans are obligated to judge what goes on inside the church...outside the church is up to God.

      That's why Christians are enforcing the no gay coitus rules and defending marriage.

      It is our duty.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Just curious, Douglas. Your mission appears to be pointing out that an active homosexual sex life is abhorred by God, but celibacy is possible, even practical. Your personal experience has nothing to do with such ideas?

      May 5, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      "Duty" – that caught my eye. Do you have a duty to your imagination?

      May 5, 2013 at 10:50 pm |
    • Observer

      Douglas,

      Yep. So well more than one half of Christian couples who divorce and remarry are adulterers and therefore can't call themselves Christians.

      Pick and choose.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:55 pm |
    • mama k

      Just for the record, Douglas, shall we say it's safe to say you are condemning the over four million ELCA members and the roughly one million United Church of Christ members to hell since they are already marrying gays?

      May 5, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
    • Hepcat

      Douglas said, "Chrisitans are obligated to judge what goes on inside the church...outside the church is up to God."

      This is the first I've heard of it! WHERE does it say that in the Bible? ????????????

      May 5, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
    • Douglas

      hepcat...just for you,

      1 Corinthians 9 (New Testament)

      Backstory: (Paul is addressing church members regarding a member involved in immorality and what should be done about it)

      9I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;10I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:39 pm |
    • Hepcat

      Ah, I had forgotten that passage. Too bad it is already contradicted by what Jesus supposedly said about judging.
      There are hundreds of contradictions in the Bible, both OT and NT, yet that doesn't even slow idiots like you down, does it?
      Nope, can't get through to people when they are in denial. You cherry-pick yet if I were a fundie like you I could use anything I wanted to kill anyone who disagreed with me over something like which sentence or paragraph should be a mortal offense.
      I judge you to be worthless as a guide to any part of my life, simply because you are schizophrenic, religious, and a troll.
      Funny how so many other christians do not follow any particular text, yet are not punished for it. Think about it.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:33 am |
  10. Julie

    Mark 10:2-12
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    2 Some Pharisees came up to Jesus, testing Him, and began to question Him whether it was lawful for a man to divorce a wife. 3 And He answered and said to them, “What did Moses command you?” 4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.” 5 But Jesus said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. 6 But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. 7 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, 8 and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

    10 In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. 11 And He *said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; 12 and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.”

    May 5, 2013 at 10:31 pm |
    • Douglas

      Julie,

      Thanks for clarifying Jesus' definition of marriage and divorce (involves one man and one woman only)

      Keep up the good work!

      -Douglas

      May 5, 2013 at 10:34 pm |
    • Huh?

      I am confused how this passage clarified anything? It seems a far stretch to say this passage implied 'man and women.'

      May 5, 2013 at 10:54 pm |
    • Austin

      no it is not. come on. there is no just debate over this issue. It is thoroughly handled and sin is distinguished.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
  11. Joe

    ALL are welcome in Gods house. All are welcome! Its people (Christians & non-Christians) that have placed sin and ranking of sin ahead of Love, Mercy, Grace, and Forgiveness.

    May 5, 2013 at 10:30 pm |
    • Austin

      Joe that is a good point , but you want to quench the holy spirit in habitual sin so that grace may abound?

      keep encouraging people to commit themselves to a sinful lifestyle. Faith without works is dead. Resurrection power is the freedom from sin. We are baptized and submersed in freedom from sin.

      His name is 'THE WORD OF GOD"

      YOU ARE COMMANDED TO FLEE FROM TEMPTATION. repent means, "to turn away from"

      you dont get to choose to say "I want heaven and this sin I refuse to give up"

      Have you read the book of revelation ? every chruch is warned about se.Xual immorality.

      SE.XUAL IMMORALITY

      Romans 6:18 ►

      New International Version (©2011)
      You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

      Revelation 3:21 ►

      New International Version (©2011)
      To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:37 pm |
    • snyskies

      God is both love and truth and justice ... He cannot elevate one of these traits over the other ... He just is.

      Also, keep in mind that Jesus – 'the fun loving hippie, also spoke of judgment and hell ... you can just pull out the pieces of God you like and disregard the elements ... if so you are creating a god in your own image and not His.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • ImAlwaysRight

      Yes, and all people are called upon to leave their life of sin. ALL people are called to leave a life of sin, not embrace it!

      May 5, 2013 at 10:42 pm |
    • Joe

      Austin: Not encourage people to sin or condone it but lead people to Christ through my actions. When I “works by faith” through Christ it is for ALL!!! I don't pick and choose who is worthy of heaven or hell. I'll let God decide that. I'll just plant the seed with my actions.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:46 pm |
    • LinCA

      Holy fucking shit! There's a massive circle jerk going on here.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • Joe

      LinCA: HA. Yes; I suppose so.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:51 pm |
    • Austin

      Joe you are right.

      If you take the whole gospel, it starts with the sin in genesis. and it ends with a saved individual becoming like the resurrected Christ. That power over death is important symbolically. We cant allow people to go on thinking that they are enslaved to something that they are not. Reading straight through the NT we see how many times we are warned not to follow another doctrine. What is at stake in this forum , is the perversion of the doctrine of salvation. Which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If He dwells in us, we are slaves to righteousness and free from sin. Lordship salvation has to be understood.

      Christ blesses Peter.......upon this rock..............and look what happens four verses later.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:24 pm |
  12. Too much of a good thing

    “If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant … then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them” Sir Karl Popper

    May 5, 2013 at 10:21 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      An Ode to the tolerable for tolerability's sakes of intolerable coincidences.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:34 pm |
  13. LouAZ

    The christian right is neither.

    May 5, 2013 at 10:21 pm |
  14. Jesus

    I will no longer be reading CNN as it is basically a tabloid at this point. Peace! I'm out!

    May 5, 2013 at 10:20 pm |
    • Athy

      Goodbye. Don't come back.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:44 pm |
  15. Gerry

    I take issue with evangelicals who kidnap the term "Christians" as if they are the only ones who count. Yes, many of us have lost patience and respect with fundamentalist Christians who want to shove their distorted theological views on the rest of society. Yes, Evangelicals, if left unchecked, can become the Western Taliban.

    May 5, 2013 at 10:19 pm |
    • snyskies

      "Yes, Evangelicals, if left unchecked, can become the Western Taliban" .... please don't be so dramatic and ignorant!

      May 5, 2013 at 10:36 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Gerry

      It's "will", Gerry, "will". Evangelicals, if left unchecked, will become the Western Taliban.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • faith

      we r.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:51 pm |
    • Austin

      Faith .....you crack me up.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:38 am |
    • biggles

      Our Nazi god-hating fascists crack me up. They remain the funniest and dumbest morons on ert.

      May 6, 2013 at 12:43 am |
  16. BOb the Prayer-y Dog

    No one knows what happens when we die and anyone claiming such knowledge is a liar who probably wants your money.

    May 5, 2013 at 10:19 pm |
  17. AGayJewishBoy

    Awwww – I feel for them!

    May 5, 2013 at 10:19 pm |
  18. Non-Christian and Proud of It!

    The only people giving Christians a bad name is Christians. Instead of criticizing how everyone else is living their lives, why can't Christians just focus on themselves?

    May 5, 2013 at 10:14 pm |
    • erivera63

      Because they need someone to look down on so they can feel better about themselves.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:00 pm |
    • Austin

      no if you understand the Word of God, the name for Christ, you understand the doctrine of salvation. the doctrine and law of sin. We are all born as sinners. We all have the resurrection given through the risen savior. We all have the same guidelines. God has given us every bit of information that we need. And we wont let you jump off a bridge in error. We care to much about you to let you do it.

      there is freedom in truth, and Christ. When you walk with God , you please Him by choosing to repent. Even when it means letting go of the wrong relationship. We all have loved ones who need the correct discipline.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
  19. faith

    "Christians should know about Horus from 3000 BC (Jesus is a copy of Horus" proof murdock? AIN'T got none

    apologize 4 lyin, again

    May 5, 2013 at 10:13 pm |
    • ..

      Sig heil, Nazi swine faith!

      May 5, 2013 at 10:21 pm |
    • Austin

      Hi faith, How are you ?

      May 5, 2013 at 10:26 pm |
    • ..

      Hateful as usual, Austin, how the hell does she appear?

      May 5, 2013 at 10:31 pm |
    • faith

      faith b on fire austin, and u?

      May 5, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • Austin

      that light is shining! I admire the labor you put in. Faith, Jesus loves you! Keep sharing and keep the armor on.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:11 pm |
  20. helo

    P.S. I don't see us as a hated majority, there are more christians uniting and coming together like never before, and as we are persecuted for righteousness we become stronger and brighter with the persecution – streetevangelismtampabay

    May 5, 2013 at 10:13 pm |
    • JJ

      That's the way David Koresh thought too. I hope you grow a brain one day.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:18 pm |
    • Just call me Lucifer

      It will be an honor to persecute as many of you as possible. I'll bet you believe every word of that book that you NEVER READ COVER TO COVER. Your fictional character Christ was right about one thing... you're all mindless phucking sheep.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:19 pm |
    • faith

      y b a fake christian. on a good day there r 2 or 3 righteous people posting here. the rest r dodo and 1 or 2 devils. 2day christians r havin a revival.

      nah. it is dodo. she raises cream puff issues as a fake christian so she can make a fool out of the alleged christian poster

      May 5, 2013 at 10:20 pm |
    • albie

      for every one of you there is someone like me willing to shove you back down - more and more people are fed up with your "kind"

      May 5, 2013 at 10:25 pm |
    • ..

      Idiotfaith, you judgemental twat, he even gave a website...what is yours, liars.com? BitchesforJesus.com?

      May 5, 2013 at 10:28 pm |
    • Austin

      albie, what is one supposed to do after they experience the internal voice of a supernatural God. In my case, i would have to begin lying to my self, just to try to act like God is not real, so that I can be on the side of who? a bunch of people who reject the true God, forgiveness, eternal life, and the loving regeneration and redemption that our savior who dwells within us baptizes us in. We are baptized into the forgivenss and freedom from sin. The ship sinks, never to come up again. We are submersed in the freedom from sin.

      That is the best news I have ever heard, and no I cant nor would I ever desire to lie about what God has done so that I can join a bunch of complaining souls who insist on spiritual suicide.

      May 5, 2013 at 10:31 pm |
    • faith

      i would to god we are hated. despised. detested, whether there is 1 or 120,000,000 of us. if we are not hated, we are in trouble boys and girls

      May 5, 2013 at 10:46 pm |
    • erivera63

      And there are more Christians dropping out of the church , thanks to the pedophilia scandal.

      May 5, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.