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 Evangelical Christians say they are the new victims of intolerance - they're persecuted for condemning homosexuality.
May 5th, 2013
06:00 AM ET
When Christians become a 'hated minority'By John Blake, CNN (CNN) - When Peter Sprigg speaks publicly about his opposition to homosexuality, something odd often happens. During his speeches, people raise their hands to challenge his assertions that the Bible condemns homosexuality, but no Christians speak out to defend him. “But after it is over, they will come over to talk to me and whisper in my ear, ‘I agree with everything you said,’" says Sprigg, a spokesman for The Family Research Council, a powerful, conservative Christian lobbying group. We’ve heard of the “down-low” gay person who keeps his or her sexual identity secret for fear of public scorn. But Sprigg and other evangelicals say changing attitudes toward homosexuality have created a new victim: closeted Christians who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality but will not say so publicly for fear of being labeled a hateful bigot. As proof, Sprigg points to the backlash that ESPN commentator Chris Broussard sparked recently. Broussard was called a bigot and a purveyor of hate speech when he said an NBA player who had come out as gay was living in “open rebellion to God.” Broussard said the player, Jason Collins, was “living in unrepentant sin” because the Bible condemns homosexuality. “In the current culture, it takes more courage for someone like Chris Broussard to speak out than for someone like Jason Collins to come out,” says Sprigg, a former pastor. “The media will hail someone who comes out of the closet as gay, but someone who simply expresses their personal religious views about homosexual conduct is attacked.” When is disagreement hate? Bryan Litfin, a theology professor at Moody Bible Institute in Illinois, says Christians should be able to publicly say that God designed sex to take place within a marriage between a man and a woman. “That isn’t so outrageous,” Litfin says. “Nobody is expressing hate toward homosexuals by saying that. Since when is disagreement the same as hate?” But quoting the Bible doesn't inoculate anyone from becoming a bigot or hater, some scholars say. There's a point at which a Christian's opposition to homosexuality can become bigotry, and even hate speech, they say. Crossing such a line has happened many times in history. A literal reading of the Bible was used to justify all sorts of hatred: slavery, the subjugation of women and anti-Semitism, scholars and pastors say. “Truly damaging speech cannot be excused just because it expresses genuine religious belief,” says Mark D. Jordan, author of “Recruiting Young Love: How Christians Talk about Homosexuality.” “Some religious beliefs, sincerely held, are detestable. They cannot be spoken without disrupting social peace,” says Jordan, a professor at the John Danforth Center on Religion & Politics at Washington University in St. Louis. The point where religious speech becomes hate speech is difficult to define, though, scholars and activists say. The Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama is a nonprofit civil rights group that combats and monitors hate groups. Three years ago, it designated the Family Research Council, the group that Sprigg represents, as a hate group - a characterization the group stridently rejects. Mark Potok, a center spokesman, says there’s no shared definition of what constitutes hate speech. “There is no legal meaning. It’s just a phrase,” Potok says. “Hate speech is in the ear of the beholder.” 'One of the most hated minorities?' Intolerance may be difficult to define, but some evangelicals say they have become victims of intolerance because of their reverence for the Bible. The conservative media culture is filled with stories about evangelicals being labeled as “extremists” for their belief that homosexuality is a sin. Their sense of persecution goes beyond their stance on homosexuality. There are stories circulating of evangelical students being suspended for opposing homosexuality, a teacher fired for giving a Bible to a curious student, and the rise of anti-Christian bigotry. A blogger at The American Dream asked in one essay: “Are evangelical Christians rapidly becoming one of the most hated minorities in America?” The reluctance of evangelicals to speak out against homosexuality is often cited as proof they are being forced into the closet. Joe Carter, editor for The Gospel Coalition, an online evangelical magazine, wrote a blog post entitled “Debatable: Is the Christian Church a ‘Hate Group’?" He warned that young people will abandon “orthodox” Christian churches that teach that homosexuality is a sin for fear of being called haters. “Faux civility, embarrassment, prudishness and a fear of expressing an unpopular opinion has caused many Christians to refrain from explaining how homosexual conduct destroys lives,” Carter wrote. Some Christians fear that opposing homosexuality could cause them to lose their jobs and “haunt them forever,” Carter says. “It’s easier to just go along,” says Carter, who is also author of “How to Argue Like Jesus.” “You don’t want to be lumped in with the bigots. That’s a powerful word." Edward Johnson, a communication professor at Campbell University in North Carolina, says we are now living in a "postmodern" era where everything is relative and there is no universally accepted truth. It's an environment in which anyone who says "this is right" and "that is wrong" is labeled intolerant, he says. There was a time when a person could publicly say homosexuality was wrong and people could consider the statement without anger, he says. Today, people have reverted to an intellectual tribalism where they are only willing to consider the perspective of their own tribe. “They are incapable of comprehending that someone may have a view different than theirs,” Johnson says. “For them anyone who dares to question the dogma of the tribe can only be doing so out of hatred.” Sprigg, from the Family Research Council, says his condemnation of homosexual conduct does not spring from intolerance but a desire to protect gays from harmful conduct, he says. Sprigg, a senior fellow for policy studies at the council, wrote in a council pamphlet that homosexual men are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are straight men. He also wrote that gay men are also afflicted with a higher rate of sexually transmitted diseases and mental illness as well. Sprigg says he does not believe homosexuality is a choice and that “personal testimonies" and "clinical experience” show that some people “can and do change from gay to straight.” “Maybe we need to do a better job of showing that we are motivated by Christian love,” Sprigg says. “Love is wanting the best for someone, and acting to bring that about.” 'That's a lie' Potok, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, has little use for the love Sprigg talks about. He calls it hatred, and his voice rose in anger when he talked about the claims by Sprigg and other Christian groups that gay men are more predisposed to molest children and that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful. He says the Southern Poverty Law Center didn’t designate the Family Research Group a hate group because they view homosexuality as a sin or oppose same-sex marriage, Potok says. There are plenty of Christian groups who hold those beliefs but are not hate groups, he says. A group becomes a hate group when it attacks and maligns an entire class of people for their “immutable characteristics,” Potok says. The Family Research Council spreads known falsehoods about gays and lesbians, he says, such as the contention that gay men are predisposed to abuse children. “That’s a lie,” Potok says. “These guys are engaging in straight-up defamation of a very large group of people. There are not many things much worse than you can say in America about somebody than they are a child molester.” Potok scoffed at Spriggs’ claim that the council and other evangelical anti-gay groups are victims of intolerance. “That’s whining on the part of people who spend their days and nights attacking gay people and then some people criticize them and they don’t like it,” he says. “That’s pathetic. It reminds me of slave owners complaining that people are saying ugly things about them.” What the Bible says What about the popular evangelical claim, “We don’t hate the sinner, just the sin” – is that seen as intolerance or hate speech when it comes to homosexuality? There are those who say you can’t hate the sin and love the sinner because being gay or lesbian is defined by one’s sexual behavior; it’s who someone is. “Most people who identify as gay and lesbian would say that this is not an action I’m choosing to do; this is who I am,” says Timothy Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible: The Unexpected History of an Accidental Book.” Beal, a religion professor at Case Western University in Ohio, says it should be difficult for any Christian to unequivocally declare that the Bible opposes homosexuality because the Bible doesn’t take a single position on the topic. It's an assertion that many scholars and mainline Protestant pastors would agree with. Some people cite Old Testament scriptures as condemning homosexuality, such as Leviticus 18:22 - “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” But other Christians counter by saying they are not bound by the Old Testament. There are those who also cite New Testament scriptures like Romans 1:26-27 - “… Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men. …” Beal, however, says Jesus said little about sex. And the Apostle Paul, who wrote Romans, was probably referring to male prostitution and men having sexual relations with boys, a practice in the Greco-Roman world. “Paul does not understand genetics and sexual orientation the way we understand it now as something much more than a choice,” says Beal. Some evangelicals say Christians can’t change their view of biblical truth just because times change. But some scholars reply: Sure you can. Christians do it all the time. Denying a woman’s ability to preach in church was justified by scriptures like 1 Timothy 2:11-12 - “… I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” But many churches have abandoned that teaching - and some scholars say a woman preached the first Christian sermon, when Mary Magdalene proclaimed that Jesus had risen. Slaveholders in 19th century America justified slavery through a literal reading of the Bible, quoting Titus 2:9-10 – “Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything. …” And anti-Semitism was justified by the claims that Jews killed Jesus, such as Matthew 27: 25-26 - “Let his blood be on us and on our children.” Litfin, from Moody Bible Institute, acknowledged that the Bible once sanctioned slavery, but he said that practice was a “cultural expression” that changed over time. Evangelicals who oppose same-sex marriage by citing the Bible are on more solid ground, he says. “Marriage is a universal and timeless institution that God set up for maximum human flourishing. He set it up in the first book of the Bible with the story of Adam and Eve. It is consistent throughout the whole Bible. … Marriage is in a different category than those cultural things.” Public jousts over the Bible's stance on homosexuality rarely change people’s minds. What changes is when people get to know gay and lesbian people as friends and hear their story, says Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible.” “If you open up to that other person genuinely, you basically come to a point where you have to sacrifice them to your ideology or crack open your ideology to make a hospitable place for them,” Beal says. One Christian pastor who is gay says the uproar over the ESPN commentator’s comments can actually be good, because debates help settle moral disputes. “What appears to us as antiquated and prejudicial now was once a disputed issue that required debate,” says the Rev. Richard McCarty, a minister in the United Church of Christ and a religious studies professor at Mercyhurst University in Pennsylvania. Until the debate over homosexuality is settled - if it ever is - there may be plenty of evangelical Christians who feel as if they are now being forced to stay in the closet. Carter, the evangelical blogger, says he foresees a day when any church that preaches against homosexuality will be marginalized. Just as many churches now accept divorce, they will accept sexual practices once considered sinful. “It’s getting to the point,” he says, “where churches are not going to say that any sexual activity is wrong.” soundoff (10,982 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 Next »
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American Views-Love everyone. Do not judge. Accept all people. Respect other religions, races, views, etc... except for christianity. Mock christians. Judge them. Tease them. Point fingers and laugh at them. Bully them. But make sure to treat everyone else with dignity and respect. It doesn't apply to christians. Never has, never will.
Uh oh somebody has a self persecution complex. Want a tissue?
Nobody mocks Christians when they feed the hungry, or when the care for the sick, or when they act like Christians. They do mock Christians when they judge and condemn others, because Christ told you not to do this!
u r cookin bro
it is sport
it is fun for them
REMEMBER
AS OF NOW it is also about doing whatever is necessary to end christianity and christians immediately through any means available
THEREFORE
REPORT THEM TO THE fbi NOW
BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE
look 4 anvil's posts. she is a frequent offender
faith – I'm pretty sure the FBI would be more interested in you and your crazy behavior.
The christian persecution complex at its best!
Christians are the ones trying to dictate what should and shouldn't be taught in school (Intelligent Design vs Evolution); they whine when women stand up for their rights (birth control, abortion); they whine when LGBT ask for equal rights; they stand on street corners and hand out their propaganda; they literally try to step in to every aspect of the public forum.
When they learn that their actions are not merited and that they should mind their own business then the calling-out will stop.
Dear FBI, I'm pretty sure "faith" has a bunch of pressure cookers and fertilizer. We've seen a lot of fertilizer already. Please stop faith before it does any more harm.
Father, glorify your name!" Then a voice came from heaven, "I have glorified it, and will glorify it again."
atheist nazis do not care about gay rights, per se. they care about trying to make hay out of it
Brains?
And then there came another voice, saying "Why in Hell can't I just send Email from my Bible?" And the people spoke, saying "Verily, your Bible is not a thing of science, but a comfort to your heart, and therefore let common sense have a turn."
So, its ok to bash christens and not gays????? This world is on its way out!!! Guess what ,If its ok for peopkle to say its ok to be gay, than its ok for me to say they are creeps .
You can say whatever you want. But you are still a pri.ck.
And my guess is that christians have a higher percentage of creeps compaired to gay people.
Looks like someone's having a case of the Mondays.
It's not our place to judge. Thats God's job. You need to put down your picket signs and start worrying about your own sins. With that being said I think it's ridiculous how its ok to be muslim, gay, ect. but it's not ok to be a Christian. We are living in the end times indeed. Just remember all you have to is accept Jesus Christ, we are all sinners and fall short of God's glory.
End. You don't judge except when you do. One of the many religious convolutions. If you know you're not good enough for your god why bother trying to please it?
"So, its ok to bash christens and not gays?????"
One is based in never-never land, the other based in reality, so when the one based in never-never land (christianity) stops bashing the one based in reality (gays) the bashing will stop.
Yeah, but that Christen thinks she's all that, ya know.
"And my guess is that christians have a higher percentage of creeps compaired to gay people." Go in a leather boy bar some Friday night and see if you still think that.
Time to learn more about the rich history that existed at one time. http://anthropologist.livejournal.com/1314574.html Now, CONServatives have taken over and are capriciously ruling with an iron fist.
it is wrong to hate an entire group of people because of the actions of a few.
Who told you that??
Yes, actually Seoras is right! Whenever there is a gay pride parade and some guys dress flashy and near-naked the conservative wing tends to condemn them all. So, what Seoras is saying is quite true and has much merit!
Pride already did em in.
"1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."
That comes from Archie Bunker. He was having an argument with Meathead.
http://goingtodamasc.us/why-the-marriage-debate-has-already-destroyed-us/
The linked article may have a good point with ".. the spread of technology and social media we are now able to relay information and arguments faster than ever before causing the polarization of people to increase at never-before-seen rates."
But it attempts to call for sensibility on the issue of gay marriage between the Christian right and what it calls the "Post-Modern Left". For the latter author seems mainly to call for a more intense reading of the Bible and for the "right" it has some recommendations, but it doesn't care to address one of the most troubling problems preventing any kind of decent understanding between various types of theists: lack of a basic education about homosexuality.
If Christians are hated it is because they they have done hateful things. If Christians are hated its is because they have tried to force their beliefs and moral codes on others. Such behavior is worthy of hate.
Tell that to the gubmint god with all its force and usurping.
"Yes, the long war on Christianity. I pray that one day we may live in an America where Christians can worship freely! In broad daylight! Openly wearing the symbols of their religion... perhaps around their necks? And maybe - dare I dream it? - maybe one day there can be an openly Christian President. Or, perhaps, 43 of them. Consecutively.” – Jon Stewart
Silly Xtian persection complex.
What do you or Stewart know about acceptable service?? ZIP with no code.
John 15:18
And LOL and Heavensent respond with gibberish. Anyone care to interpret?
Of course they'd say that proves the bible right – Babel and all that
"A literal reading of the Bible was used to justify all sorts of hatred" Mmmm... Nope! An out of context, selective reading of the Bible was used to justify all sorts of hatred.
And how exactly does one determine the "true" reading of the Bible?
You have to be chosen.
If the text doesn't jive with your personal interpretation, then it's being taken "out of context" What a joke... ...
The bible is the great book of pick-n-choose. You can interpret it to say whatever you like.
No, the Bible is pretty clear about violent acts. It condemns some, it encourages others. The Bible is a useless tool when it comes to morality and basing your life and judgments around the eclectic writings of irrational goat herders from the first century is absolutely deserving of hatred.
Yeah... those Bible-era Jesus-worshipping slave owners were totally just taking scripture that was written directly to them in their own time period out of context.
Be honest... you wouldn't understand literary context if it up and slapped you in the face.
Well, certainly not by focusing on isolated verses
frank, if you find the Bible's truth useless, what's that say about you?
Frank sayz,
"............goat herders from the first century is absolutely deserving of hatred...."
Well dude, according to the A&A RAGS man is a hal mil years old, and that makes the 1st century like yesterday, Daddy-O. Don't burn yasef out on HATE.
“Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles
- Leviticus 21:17-20
We were warned
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
-Barry Goldwater
How was he s'posed to foresee elmo, barney, and the housing collapse??
Barry was right....
Ignore me, I'm a troll
twit, fools refuse to learn His wisdom and you continue to prove it.
When I was younger I liked Barry, nuke em, Goldwater.
Christians are a majority, not a minority. The issue is when the majority uses this righteous christian morale (of some religions) and tries to set it upon others, like sharia law in the islamic world. Then what sets us apart as the civilized, free society we claim to be?
UH huh, what's your share of the national debt??
Luke 11:14-23
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters.
Amen,
There's another example of the bible lying.
I am not against god or with him. He does not exist.
“for whoever is not against us is for us” Mark 9:40
I got a wunnerful idea for faith in action and gubermint. Send washington a blank check. Let them fill it out as they see fit.
Ignore me, I'm a troll
Jason Collins: "I'm Gay"
Media: You are a hero.
Tim Tebow: "I'm a Christian"
Media: Keep that to your self. It's personal.
Jason Collins wasn't doing anything in the end zone to demonstrate his se.xuality.
I know, he was on a court. But whatever. Get it?
Despite this article Christians, in general, are not a persecuted minority and therefore proclaiming ones Christianity is seen as more boastful than courageous, more so anyway than needed to proclaim ones orientation while a major sports figure.
Bible: Slavery is ok
Abe Lincoln: No its not.
Jason Collins: Part of an oppressed minority
Tim Tebow: Pandering to the oppressive majority
You see the difference?
Tim's such a hero for deciding to stand up and agree with the vast majority of American's... man, that guy shows real backbone when he stands there and proudly proclaims the exact same thing that 74% of the nation is saying... wow... what a hero.
BS, slavey ensured that a roof was over your head, food in your belly, clothes and sandals on your feet. All given for work completed. I guess it would be better for you if people back then starved to death.
Thank You, HeavenSent, for explaining the views of slave owners so clearly. Yes, they were magnanimous people indeed.
HS "slavey ensured that a roof was over your head..."
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
Exodus 21:20-21
· Top 10 Poorest States:
1. Mississippi -Republican
2. Arkansas – Republican
3. Tennessee -Republican
4. Oklahoma – Republican
5. Louisiana -Republican
6. Montana – Republican
7. South Carolina -Republican
8. Kentucky – Republican
9. Alabama – Republican
10. West Virginia – Republican/Democrat – leans more Republican
I could be wrong. But I bet they are also the least intelligent states also.
-also
Socies always steal the most. They have bigger needs.
Let's not forget the 11th state – Texas – it is not exactly basking in richness due to its governor not wanting to help the people who need it the most in that state. Time to Turn Texas Blue to save people from the CONServatives.
You can disagree with their lifestyle as long as you don't try to pursue a piece of legislation backed by that religious belief. Once you try to push your beliefs onto another person through the use of laws you have become a bigot.
Like gay marriage becoming law?
Has the mob chosen the Gay for the Day and elected him yet today, hooray??
Ignore me, I'm a troll
its sad that so many people hate christians & muslims, there are a lot of religiophobes out there
Its sad that some religious people hate gay people.
A phobia is an irrational fear. There is plenty of rantional reasons to fear christianity and islam.
Its sad that so many Christians and Muslims believe that everyone should be forced to live under their personal rules.
It's sad that Christianity and Islam have been a consistent source of world-wide atrocities for the last oh... couple of thousand years, right up to the present.
Seoras, they'd rather believe in the traditions of man made lies than Jesus' truth.
Matthew 23:29-36
Matthew 27:20-26
T itus 1:10-16
1 S amual 8:4-9
A cts 9:10-23
Revelation 2:8-11
Revelation 3:7-13
Amen.
Jesus is just one more man made lie.
You must think it's very odd of me
That I enjoy the act of sodomy
You might call the wrath of God on me
But if you try it, then you might agree
That you enjoy the act of sodomy...
Don't worry if you feel afraid
It's been around for years
Thousands more that can't be named
Are interested in rears
Don't worry about Hell
No harm will come to your soul
We're not all pentacostal
But everybody's got an a.sshole...
It might just improve your s.ex
A hard act to follow
The fact that fundamentalists find
Difficult to swallow
So join me as I sing
Of an activity that's fun
Open up your ring
and try it front-to-bum!
Bum-bum!
Bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum
– From Peter Jackson's "Meet the Feebles"
an ode to the bum?
Hard to believe that the man who made The Lord of The Rings trilogy made a naughty muppet movie....
Then there were bum worshippers who worshipped bums
That's what you get for listening to the lies of man-made traditions than Jesus' truth.
Matthew 23:29-36
Matthew 27:20-26
T itus 1:10-16
1 S amual 8:4-9
A cts 9:10-23
Revelation 2:8-11
Revelation 3:7-13
Amen.
You should not discriminate against my age, religion, or racial orientation.
So long as your Religion does not discriminate against the freedoms of others. Which it does. So you are SOL.
Religion is a philosophy, not a natural occurrence of birth. And we discriminate against harmful/primitive philosophies all the time: Nazis, KKK, Islam... I have no problem adding Christianity to that list.
I agree, no-one should discriminate against YOU for what YOU believe.
However, the beliefs themselves are open game.
Listening and abiding in man made lies (traditions of men) versus Jesus' truth.
Matthew 23:29-36
Matthew 27:20-26
T itus 1:10-16
1 S amual 8:4-9
A cts 9:10-23
Revelation 2:8-11
Revelation 3:7-13
Amen.
"jesus' truth = mans lies.
Join us in reality.
just because the bibles says it so, it isn't so.
it's a book full of errors and outdated thinking which devout Christians cherry pick sins. (Like eating Lobster and owing women as slaves)
If you see errors and outdated thinking in the Bible, you own your perception in life.
If you see errors in the bible, it means your brain is turned on...it will start making sense once you turn it back off.