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When Christians become a 'hated minority'
Evangelical Christians say they are the new victims of intolerance - they're persecuted for condemning homosexuality.
May 5th, 2013
06:00 AM ET

When Christians become a 'hated minority'

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - When Peter Sprigg speaks publicly about his opposition to homosexuality, something odd often happens.

During his speeches, people raise their hands to challenge his assertions that the Bible condemns homosexuality, but no Christians speak out to defend him.

“But after it is over, they will come over to talk to me and whisper in my ear, ‘I agree with everything you said,’" says Sprigg, a spokesman for The Family Research Council, a powerful, conservative Christian lobbying group.

We’ve heard of the “down-low” gay person who keeps his or her sexual identity secret for fear of public scorn. But Sprigg and other evangelicals say changing attitudes toward homosexuality have created a new victim: closeted Christians who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality but will not say so publicly for fear of being labeled a hateful bigot.

As proof, Sprigg points to the backlash that ESPN commentator Chris Broussard sparked recently. Broussard was called a bigot and a purveyor of hate speech when he said an NBA player who had come out as gay was living in “open rebellion to God.” Broussard said the player, Jason Collins, was “living in unrepentant sin” because the Bible condemns homosexuality.

“In the current culture, it takes more courage for someone like Chris Broussard to speak out than for someone like Jason Collins to come out,” says Sprigg, a former pastor. “The media will hail someone who comes out of the closet as gay, but someone who simply expresses their personal religious views about homosexual conduct is attacked.”

When is disagreement hate?

Bryan Litfin, a theology professor at Moody Bible Institute in Illinois, says Christians should be able to publicly say that God designed sex to take place within a marriage between a man and a woman.

“That isn’t so outrageous,” Litfin says. “Nobody is expressing hate toward homosexuals by saying that. Since when is disagreement the same as hate?”

But quoting the Bible doesn't inoculate anyone from becoming a bigot or hater, some scholars say. There's a point at which a Christian's opposition to homosexuality can become bigotry, and even hate speech, they say.

Crossing such a line has happened many times in history.

A literal reading of the Bible was used to justify all sorts of hatred: slavery, the subjugation of women and anti-Semitism, scholars and pastors say.

“Truly damaging speech cannot be excused just because it expresses genuine religious belief,” says Mark D. Jordan, author of “Recruiting Young Love: How Christians Talk about Homosexuality.”

“Some religious beliefs, sincerely held, are detestable. They cannot be spoken without disrupting social peace,” says Jordan, a professor at the John Danforth Center on Religion & Politics at Washington University in St. Louis.

The point where religious speech becomes hate speech is difficult to define, though, scholars and activists say.

The Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama is a nonprofit civil rights group that combats and monitors hate groups. Three years ago, it designated the Family Research Council, the group that Sprigg represents, as a hate group - a characterization the group stridently rejects.

Mark Potok,  a center spokesman, says there’s no shared definition of what constitutes hate speech.

“There is no legal meaning. It’s just a phrase,” Potok says. “Hate speech is in the ear of the beholder.”

'One of the most hated minorities?'

Intolerance may be difficult to define, but some evangelicals say they have become victims of intolerance because of their reverence for the Bible.

The conservative media culture is filled with stories about evangelicals being labeled as “extremists” for their belief that homosexuality is a sin.

Their sense of persecution goes beyond their stance on homosexuality. There are stories circulating of evangelical students being suspended for opposing homosexuality, a teacher fired for giving a Bible to a curious student, and the rise of anti-Christian bigotry.

A blogger at The American Dream asked in one essay:

“Are evangelical Christians rapidly becoming one of the most hated minorities in America?”

The reluctance of evangelicals to speak out against homosexuality is often cited as proof they are being forced into the closet.

Joe Carter, editor for The Gospel Coalition, an online evangelical magazine, wrote a blog post entitled “Debatable: Is the Christian Church a ‘Hate Group’?" He warned that young people will abandon “orthodox” Christian churches that teach that homosexuality is a sin for fear of being called haters.

“Faux civility, embarrassment, prudishness and a fear of expressing an unpopular opinion has caused many Christians to refrain from explaining how homosexual conduct destroys lives,” Carter wrote.

Some Christians fear that opposing homosexuality could cause them to lose their jobs and “haunt them forever,” Carter says.

“It’s easier to just go along,” says Carter, who is also author of “How to Argue Like Jesus.” “You don’t want to be lumped in with the bigots. That’s a powerful word."

Edward Johnson, a communication professor at Campbell University in North Carolina, says we are now living in a "postmodern" era where everything is relative and there is no universally accepted truth. It's an environment in which anyone who says "this is right" and "that is wrong" is labeled intolerant, he says.

There was a time when a person could publicly say homosexuality was wrong and people could consider the statement without anger, he says. Today, people have reverted to an intellectual tribalism where they are only willing to consider the perspective of their own tribe.

“They are incapable of comprehending that someone may have a view different than theirs,” Johnson says. “For them anyone who dares to question the dogma of the tribe can only be doing so out of hatred.”

Sprigg, from the Family Research Council, says his condemnation of homosexual conduct does not spring from intolerance but a desire to protect gays from harmful conduct, he says.

Sprigg, a senior fellow for policy studies at the council, wrote in a council pamphlet that homosexual men are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are straight men. He also wrote that gay men are also afflicted with a higher rate of sexually transmitted diseases and mental illness as well.

Sprigg says he does not believe homosexuality is a choice and that “personal testimonies" and "clinical experience” show that some people “can and do change from gay to straight.”

“Maybe we need to do a better job of showing that we are motivated by Christian love,” Sprigg says. “Love is wanting the best for someone, and acting to bring that about.”

'That's a lie'

Potok, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, has little use for the love Sprigg talks about.

He calls it hatred, and his voice rose in anger when he talked about the claims by Sprigg and other Christian groups that gay men are more predisposed to molest children and that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful.

He says the Southern Poverty Law Center didn’t designate the Family Research Group a hate group because they view homosexuality as a sin or oppose same-sex marriage, Potok says. There are plenty of Christian groups who hold those beliefs but are not hate groups, he says.

A group becomes a hate group when it attacks and maligns an entire class of people for their “immutable characteristics,” Potok says. The Family Research Council spreads known falsehoods about gays and lesbians, he says, such as the contention that gay men are predisposed to abuse children.

“That’s a lie,” Potok says. “These guys are engaging in straight-up defamation of a very large group of people. There are not many things much worse than you can say in America about somebody than they are a child molester.”

Potok scoffed at Spriggs’ claim that the council and other evangelical anti-gay groups are victims of intolerance.

“That’s whining on the part of people who spend their days and nights attacking gay people and then some people criticize them and they don’t like it,” he says. “That’s pathetic. It reminds me of slave owners complaining that people are saying ugly things about them.”

What the Bible says

What about the popular evangelical claim, “We don’t hate the sinner, just the sin” – is that seen as intolerance or hate speech when it comes to homosexuality?

There are those who say you can’t hate the sin and love the sinner because being gay or lesbian is defined by one’s sexual behavior; it’s who someone is.

“Most people who identify as gay and lesbian would say that this is not an action I’m choosing to do; this is who I am,” says Timothy Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible: The Unexpected History of an Accidental Book.”

Beal, a religion professor at Case Western University in Ohio, says it should be difficult for any Christian to unequivocally declare that the Bible opposes homosexuality because the Bible doesn’t take a single position on the topic. It's an assertion that many scholars and mainline Protestant pastors would agree with.

Some people cite Old Testament scriptures as condemning homosexuality, such as  Leviticus 18:22 - “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” But other Christians counter by saying they are not bound by the Old Testament.

There are those who also cite New Testament scriptures like Romans 1:26-27 - “… Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men. …”

Beal, however, says Jesus said little about sex. And the Apostle Paul, who wrote Romans, was probably referring to male prostitution and men having sexual relations with boys, a practice in the Greco-Roman world.

“Paul does not understand genetics and sexual orientation the way we understand it now as something much more than a choice,” says Beal.

Some evangelicals say Christians can’t change their view of biblical truth just because times change. But some scholars reply:

Sure you can. Christians do it all the time.

Denying a woman’s ability to preach in church was justified by scriptures like 1 Timothy 2:11-12 - “… I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” But many churches have abandoned that teaching - and some scholars say a woman preached the first Christian sermon, when Mary Magdalene proclaimed that Jesus had risen.

Slaveholders in 19th century America justified slavery through a literal reading of the Bible, quoting Titus 2:9-10 – “Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything. …” And anti-Semitism was justified by the claims that Jews killed Jesus, such as Matthew 27: 25-26 - “Let his blood be on us and on our children.”

Litfin, from Moody Bible Institute, acknowledged that the Bible once sanctioned slavery, but he said that practice was a “cultural expression” that changed over time. Evangelicals who oppose same-sex marriage by citing the Bible are on more solid ground, he says.

“Marriage is a universal and timeless institution that God set up for maximum human flourishing. He set it up in the first book of the Bible with the story of Adam and Eve. It is consistent throughout the whole Bible. … Marriage is in a different category than those cultural things.”

Public jousts over the Bible's stance on homosexuality rarely change people’s minds. What changes is when people get to know gay and lesbian people as friends and hear their story, says Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible.”

“If you open up to that other person genuinely, you basically come to a point where you have to sacrifice them to your ideology or crack open your ideology to make a hospitable place for them,” Beal says.

One Christian pastor who is gay says the uproar over the ESPN commentator’s comments can actually be good,  because debates help settle moral disputes.

“What appears to us as antiquated and prejudicial now was once a disputed issue that required debate,” says the Rev. Richard McCarty, a minister in the United Church of Christ and a religious studies professor at Mercyhurst University in Pennsylvania.

Until the debate over homosexuality is settled - if it ever is - there may be plenty of evangelical Christians who feel as if they are now being forced to stay in the closet.

Carter, the evangelical blogger, says he foresees a day when any church that preaches against homosexuality will be marginalized. Just as many churches now accept divorce, they will accept sexual practices once considered sinful.

“It’s getting to the point,” he says, “where churches are not going to say that any sexual activity is wrong.”

- CNN Writer

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Christianity • Church • Church and state • Culture wars • Protest • Sex • Sexuality • Sports

soundoff (10,982 Responses)
  1. Dyslexic doG

    If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
    – Matthew 18:7-9

    Get to work on yourselves Christians. Every word of the Bible must be obeyed right? Every word Matthew wrote was a true quote from Jesus' lips right?

    What a joke!

    May 6, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      I think the joke might just be your simpleton understanding of this all. You'd be completely embarrassing yourself if your ignorance wasn't so shared in common here.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      keep with the denial Steve ... it seems to be working for you.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • sam

      Steve is about to impart that old chestnut about how you have to be a good christian who is right with god to truly understand the bible.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • snopes says

      Steve is a dumb shit

      May 6, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Curious. Why do some folks who commit themselves to a Christian life and, read and study Scripture, lead exemplary lives and raise loving families, build companies and become productive peaceful citizens while others find it ridiculous and only use it to ridicule and smear those who find value in it? Obviously there are two kinds of people.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • sam

      Bill, the christians you're describing tend to mind their own business. They're a rare breed. There are plenty of other types. Stop being a pandering shit.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Madtown

      Obviously there are two kinds of people
      -----
      There are many more than 2 types of people. There are plenty of people that build families, have productive lives, live in peace, and still don't know the first thing about christianity.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @Bill: those people would have lived good, productive lives anyway, with or without a religion.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • JMEF

      Bd. I read somewhere that you were a self confessed murderer, if that is true what kind of exemplary life have you led to be so judgemental of others that do not believe as you do?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Christians make up the body of Christ. Those scriptures pertain to throwing the member of the church out because they refuse to learn, comprehend and abide in Jesus' truth.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      @ Dyslexic doG –

      Since you seem to have studied this (lol), how about you explain to everyone how we know what we know about Mithras, for example? (I'll be waiting)

      May 6, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
  2. Dyslexic doG

    If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall ... say to the elders of his town, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death.
    – Deut 21

    Get to work on your teenagers Christians. Every word of the Bible must be obeyed right?

    What a joke!

    May 6, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • biggles

      Sounds like the god of the Jews wasn't messin

      May 6, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      god of jews and christians - same guy.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      God wanted to repent for his a hole ways. So he killed his own son.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      dog, imagine if your parents didn't prevent you from running across the street. Besides being a bloody mess, you'd probably would have been run over and killed. Parents teach their children His wisdom to not only save you in this life, but, the hereafter.

      May 6, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @Heavensent ... how are the parents saving me if they are having the neighbors stone me to death?

      May 6, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
  3. lamb of dog

    @RAINER
    Lust is awesome. Stop fighting one of the best human feelings.

    May 6, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • meifumado

      Indeed.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      dog, And they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust.

      Psalms 78:18

      Amen.

      May 6, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
  4. Ron Nospam

    What hypocrisy! If Christians hadn't gone around passing judgement on everybody else for the last 2,000 years, they might not find themselves judged so harshly now! Gays would almost certainly stop fighting with the church if the church would stop fighting with them! Claiming a religious right to discriminate is an abuse of the first amendment, not to mention very unethical!

    May 6, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      Baloney! The GLBT activists brought this fight to the church, not the other way around. Their stated goal isn't acceptance... they already largely have that. Their goal is to force everyone to celebrate them.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • Athy

      Bullshit Steve. Not true and you know it.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • snowboarder

      @steve, that is an outright lie. the church has continually sought to marginalize and restrict the rights of those it deemed "immoral".

      May 6, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      Yes, there was once such a time. However, GLBT folks have had identical rights for quite some time now.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • sam

      Nice try, Steve. It's got to be tiring to be that delusional, though.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • hal 9001

      Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), "that's a crock of shit, Steve".

      May 6, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Steve. Not true and you know it.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      Ok, name a right that I have that GLBT person doesn't.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • sam

      Steve, you apparently know how to use a computer to some extent, so you're not completely cut off from the world...so I can only guess your obstinate lack of knowledge is by choice. Run along and let the big kids talk.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      I'm waiting......

      May 6, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Steve, There is a whole list but how about this for starters:
      The federal government accords 1,138 benefits and responsibilities based on marital status, not on civil union status. A few of those benefits are unpaid leave to care for an ill spouse, social security survivor benefits and spousal benefits, and the right not to testify against one’s spouse, among others.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • snowboarder

      @steve, you're just too easy. h0m 0s3 xuals legally married in their states are denied the federal benefits which accompany marriage.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "Their goal is to force everyone to celebrate them." Your is apparently to pass a bunch of hysterical lies about them. Really, why do you always end up approaching us with a lie on your lips?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      A GLBT person has the exact same rights as I do concerning the State in regard to marriage.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • snowboarder

      @steve, again with the lies. h0m 0s3 xuals legally married in their states are denied the federal benefits of their marriage.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • sam

      This is the part where Steve trots out the old 'they can marry the opposite sex, just like I can', totally missing the point, embarassing himself further, and outing himself as nothing more than another delusional attention whore.

      Boring, Steve. Boring.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      @ sam –

      It isn't missing any point. They have the same legal right.
      The point is... what is at discussion isn't rights. What is being discussed is changing marriage.
      With that out of the way, is marriage some actual thing, or whatever we want to make it?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
    • snowboarder

      sorry steve, we have given examples of rights which are denied to those who are legally married. your argument is empty.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Steve, They don't have the same rights as has been demonstrated to you. Now you're changing tack. Friend of Chad's per chance?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
    • sam

      Marriage has changed many times over the millennia; and it far predates christianity. Now, that said, there's no reason not to have it legalized between consenting adults of the same gender. None. If churches don't want to participate, they don't have to. They can keep all their old archaic ways intact.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • sam stone

      steve: they have acceptance? how about equal rights?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      "It isn't missing any point. They have the same legal right."

      LOL just like blacks had the same right to use a public restroom....as long as it was black only.

      May 6, 2013 at 4:35 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      @ sam –

      My first response didn't go... so I'll give it another try.
      First, I'm not going to argue for Christian marriage here, just secular or 'State'. The reason the State gets involved is for the benefit of society, not to fulfill whatever wishes some citizens might come up with. What are these benefits? Well, for one, protecting the rights of the children (check, even, the UN declaration on children's rights). Secondly, but related in the longer term, building a stable society.

      Remember, the State prohibits, permits, or promotes. GLBT unions are currently not prohibited. They are certainly permitted. What is in question here is promoting them by conferring benefits and putting them on equal status with one-male, one-female marriage. This not only costs the State, but has consequences to society. Once you dilute optimal, you lower everything. Granted, no-fault divorce has already sunk marriage, probably beyond repair. GLBT-'marriage' will just accelerate it's demise.

      Also, you might note that on your view, there is nothing intrinsic in 'marriage' to limit it to two. One could just as easily argue for polygamy or polyamory. If not, you aren't for so called 'marriage equality.' You'd be denying someone their fulfillment in life, and could be, then, called all the stuff Christians are now being called. Maybe you'd be OK with marriage being anything, but I just wanted to make you aware of the LOGICAL slippery slope you've started down.

      May 6, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Steve. What's wrong with polygamous or polyandrous marriage as long as it is between informed, consenting adults (unlike the FLDS who additionally claim state benfits instead of working)

      May 6, 2013 at 5:45 pm |
    • sam stone

      At this point, we do not have what you call optimum.

      Stable families are the cornerstone of society. I think allowing marriage equality will promote this

      May 6, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • sam stone

      ah..the old "slippery slope" argument. at least you did not sink to the "now people will want to marry kids, animals, inanimate objects" line that others put forth

      May 6, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Steve

      First, polygamy is a problem not on civil grounds but strictly on tax codes and the legality of it. We've built the whole code based on 2 people marriages so when divorce occurs custody is given to one of 2 people, assets are split and both people agree to become single again. With polygamy how would you decide who gets what? who gets custody? who gets to stay with the other wives and/or husbands? The logistics are way to complex to be written into law and that is the ONLY reason why polygamy should not be accepted and integrated into society the way that gay marriage between 2 consenting adults should be.

      Second, the rest of your post is typical of a person who has never met a gay person and clearly believes that every gay person out there is interested in sleeping with you. Guess what, they're not, most likely because you're ugly.

      May 6, 2013 at 6:22 pm |
  5. Dyslexic doG

    If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods …do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.
    – Deut 13:7-12

    Get to work Christians. Every word of the Bible must be obeyed right?

    What a joke!

    May 6, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      Context much???
      Sheesh!

      May 6, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • Alias

      Doesn't that imply that there are other gods?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • R.M. Goodswell

      Dyslexic doG

      You didn't get the memo bud..... OT is to be ignored while the new improved version is being hashed out.....seems there is some problem with rewording and editing.....they took out the controversial content and were left with a book smaller than a leaflet.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      @ R.M. Goodswell
      Umm... no. That's not the memo. If there were signs of actual intelligence, or even a serious attempt here, I'd probably spend the time trying to explain it.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Pole dancing for Jesus

      Wilko accusing others of insufficient intelligence! Whatever next, HeavenBent citing biblical verses.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • sam

      Apparently if Steve doesn't agree with you, it's because you're not intelligent.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      Ok, show me some signs of intelligence and the ability to have a coherent discussion then. I'll apologize and take that back then.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      Context? Read it. The implied context is "within society." So if someone gives you a pamphlet about Islam, and you do not kill him, you are ignoring the plain words of God. Hey, it's your book. I just read it.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • sam

      You first, Steve. So far you've been nothing but a disingenious parrot.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      So, since you folks all know this stuff well, in context... how about you explain WHY God gave that command to the post-exilic Jewish people. Note, who I said it was given to, and you have most of your other answer.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
    • sam

      Jesus, Steve, we get it. You have to argue until you declare yourself winner. You win. Now I'll go outside and argue with a box of rocks, which will be a better use of my time.

      May 6, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      " how about you explain WHY God gave that command to the post-exilic Jewish people"

      Please prove that god gave this command as all I read are words written by men.

      May 6, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      I figured as much.
      Thanks sam... so am I a rock-star then?

      May 6, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Steve, There's no evidence that any religious text is the work of a god. Which means that the bible, specifically Genesis, has no more credibility than, for example, the kumulipo. So quoting from the bible is meaningless.

      May 6, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
  6. Bill Deacon

    For several centuries christians used the Bible to justify slavery.
    Today we think that was wrong.
    Just 2 generations ago in this counrty (USA) we used the same Bible to discriminate against people with dark skin. Again, we were wrong.
    Now we are using the words from the old testament to descriminate against gays. Jesus never spoke out against it, but that won't stop us!
    Could we be wrong yet again?

    May 6, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • Science

      Bill .................yep wrong again.................the fire pit of hell ?

      All cults...........creationists, ID believers and devil cults.................

      The fact...............the earth is to old ...........time to EVOLVE !.

      Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

      Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

      May 6, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bill Deacon,
      Well said.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      Yes

      May 6, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • {*}

      Bill, to say that gay marriage is contrary to the laws of nature is not the same as hating gays. But one would think that gay marriage is the only thing the church is interested in. The church has had far more to say about multiple hetro marriages than about gay marriage. But on this page, people get their religious training from the media, not inside the church.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Name stealer. Can't argue with my post so steals my name and creates a perversion of reality. Just like gaay marriage.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • sam

      I was almost hoping that Bill had finally achieved some actual compassion and morals, but of course, it was just a fake.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • sam

      ps Bill – the filter doesn't block you from just typing 'gay'. Or are you misspelling it to be more of a douche than usual?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      That post was stupid and clearly disproven.
      How can we claim that a society is not better served by giving equal rights to all its members?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Pole dancing for Jesus

      Just when it looks like Bill Deacon has seen reason it turns out to be a fake just like the god he worships.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      P.S. Fuck you for making all Bill Deacons look like ignorant cunts.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      Maybe you missed that it was Christians who FREED the slaves?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Steve. What interpretation do you put on Genesis 9

      May 6, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "Maybe you missed that it was Christians who FREED the slaves?" Maybe you missed that it was Christians they freed the slaves FROM, and they had to fight and kill a lot of Christians to do it. Maybe being a Christian isn't so special?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      @ In Santa we trust –

      I assume you mean where Noah awakes from his drunken stupor and mumbles a curse?

      Apart from having to understand a bit more about slavery thoughout history... I guess I'm missing the point you're trying to make. Are you saying that your understanding of it would be that Christians should follow everything anyone in the reporting of history does?

      So, to simplify this a bit:
      1) Noah makes a curse.
      2) Therefore....?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • sam

      Don't hurt yourself, Steve.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      @ Bible Clown© –

      OK, from a non-Christian world-view, please explain how you would justify overturning the practice of slavery.
      (It isn't a coincidence that abolition came out of Christian culture.)

      May 6, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • It was christians that owned slaves

      Steve Wilkinson "Maybe you missed that it was Christians who FREED the slaves?"

      I assert most unhesitatingly, that the religion of the South is a mere covering for the most horrid crimes– a justifier of the most appalling barbarity, a sanctifier of the most hateful frauds, and a dark shelter under which the darkest, foulest, grossest, and most infernal deeds of slaveholders find the strongest protection. Where I to be again reduced to the chains of slavery, next to that enslavement, I should regard being the slave of a religious master the greatest calamity that could befall me. . . I. . . hate the corrupt, slaveholding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land.-Frederick Douglass (After the Escape)

      May 6, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      @ It was christians that owned slaves –

      I agree with that sentiment. It was terrible. Whether it was hypocritical would depend on their level of understanding. If they knew they were just twisting the Bible to suit their purposes, then yes. If not, then it might be ignorant and certainly brutal, but not hypocritical.

      I think you might be forgetting, though, that the common denominator of slave owners wasn't Christianity, but humanity. Pretty much everyone had forms of slavery throughout history. But, the abolition movement (and more importantly, the foundation of it) didn't come out of nowhere.

      May 6, 2013 at 5:58 pm |
  7. Jesus was a lich

    Welcome to the new age , xtians.

    May 6, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • {*}

      "Xtians" have outlasted more new ages than you can possibly imagine. The church always outlasts its enemies and then buries them. And without an army at that.

      BTW, you possibly mean for that "x" at the front of 'xtians' to be perjorative. The "x" is actually from the Chi Rho, a symbol for Christ.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • sam

      @ {*}

      And it only needs about 30,000 denominations because they can never agree with each other on just what the hell christianity is. Congrats.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • Jesus was a lich

      With the gradual rise of free thinkers, I doubt Christianity will survive another 500 years, which is a shame, because I was hoping for a better future for my children not just their childrens childrens children.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • {*}

      @sam 30,000 denominations? That is because Christianity has enough depth and breadth and substance to engage very many minds. Substantial things always produce deep thinking and discussion. Atheists seem to be of one mind – animating many bodies.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • sam

      @{*} LOL omg, you actually believe that, don't you! That's hilarious. I give you a 10.0 for mental gymnastics.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "Atheists seem to be of one mind – animating many bodies." Another clumsy lie. You'd rather pretend that than pay attention, I guess. Nope, there's a whole range of beliefs that share the commonality of not believing in gods, and you can find Marxists who make atheism a religion and scientists who just want the facts and criminals who just look out for number one under that umbrella. There are Christians who are p0rn stars and murderers and drug smugglers, and they all say God understands why they do it and is their personal savior. People are just plain crazy, you know?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "30,000 denominations? That is because Christianity has enough depth and breadth and substance to engage very many minds."
      Seen any Albigensians lately? Oh wait, Christianity wiped them out as heretics. Even killed the babies to "root it out."

      May 6, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • Kevin Harris

      No thanks!

      May 6, 2013 at 6:47 pm |
  8. Bible Clown©

    It was once considered normal to have several wives, and the Bible is all happy about it. It even gives you pointers on how to sell your extra children. Today we lock up bigamists and execute slavers, and guess what? God doesn't seem to care. When will God set us back on the right track of polygamy and white slavery?
    Things change, and yesterday's "godly" is today's evil. Tribes wanted everyone to be straight because they needed babies born to keep increasing the tribe. We have extra people today, and there's no breeding pressure.

    May 6, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
  9. Rainer Braendlein

    Christians are never the minority in the sense that they would exist at the very edge of society. In fact, the Christians are the core of the civilized world. There is a strong tendency of barbarization in the world. By nature people are inclined to make profit on cost of their neighbours, we are selfish by nature. This destructive power can only be stopped through the Spirit of God which dwells in the Christian Church. This Spirit causes a love which is stronger than the destructive power of man, and causes an unselfish love which is not only concerned for oneself but also for the neighbour. The love of Christ will never aspire after profit on the cost of the neighbour.

    Of course, the mega-selfish people in the world, our criminal leaders, feel disturbed by the Christian Church or the Spirit of God, and declare the Christians would be a "minority", a sect living at the very edge of society. Yet, one day it will become clear that these people had made a mistake, and they will manifest as the losers.

    Gayness is just extreme selfishness. Gays are complete slaves of the lust of their body, that means that they are completely deprived of the Spirit or any faith in Christ. The "King of disbelief" was Mahound (Muhammad); he had even intercourse with a young girl and anyway with many women. Extreme disbelief seems to culminate in se-xual misbehaviour.

    http://confessingchurch.wordpress.com

    May 6, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      Get help

      May 6, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @Rainer: Let's talk about Horus from 3000 BC (Jesus is a copy of Horus), or Attis from 1500 BC (Jesus is a copy of Attis), or Mithra from 1200BC (Jesus is a copy of Mithra), or Krishna from 900BC (Jesus is a copy of Krishna), or Dionysus from 500 BC (Jesus is a copy of Dionysus) .... or any of the DOZENS of other gods predating the bronze age book character Jesus who were born of a virgin on Dec 25, traveled as a teacher, had 12 disciples, performed miracles, was killed and lay dead for 3 days and was resurrected.

      You Christians are not even original! What a joke!

      May 6, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      If gayness is extreme selfishness, then what is pedophilia? A gift from god? According to catholics, probably yes.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • ..

      Rainer, your posts get more irrational every day.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • sam stone

      "the core of the civilized world"?

      perhaps to a goose stepping lemming like yourself

      May 6, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      ReligionIsBS, both are guilty of the sin of Pride which is what satan is guilty of. Notice the use of 'GAY PRIDE" in their mantra.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      HS have you seen Satan?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      sam stone, you posted "the core of the civilized world? perhaps to a goose stepping lemming like yourself"

      Answer: Hitler was a Jew or did you not know why he tried to destroy his family history?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      Translation:
      Non christians are barbarians.
      Lust is evil. But for some reason it is also a natural human feeling.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist, No one will see satan until he comes back as the antichrist. However, I survived what his followers did to destroy my life, as I knew it.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      And you base the existence of Satan on writings of men. Interesting

      May 6, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      dog,

      For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

      1 John 2:16

      Amen.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      HS, your writings of men only hold authority in the ignorant minds who blindly follow them.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • Athy

      Read what the christians did to Hypatia sometime.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Ted, Jesus is the author of the Bible. You refuse to believe because of what He had Holy Men divinely inspired by His Holy spirit ... write in 2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

      Amen.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Ted, you unbelievers have been lied to when trained to listen and abide in man made lies (traditions of men), which causes them to lose their soul versus Jesus' truth that will save their soul.

      Matthew 23:29-36
      Matthew 27:20-26
      T itus 1:10-16
      1 S amual 8:4-9
      A cts 9:10-23
      Revelation 2:8-11
      Revelation 3:7-13

      Amen.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Maynard

      "Jesus is the author of the Bible."

      LOL

      May 6, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      "Holy Men divinely inspired by His Holy spirit"
      .
      .
      And this is where your faith comes in with zero direct evidence.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      HS Jesus is the author of the Bible
      .
      Um noooooooooooooooooo lol

      May 6, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "Jesus is the author of the Bible." Just hush before you get any stupider.

      May 6, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • fintastic

      @heavenstench........."Jesus is the author of the Bible"

      Evidence? .....

      May 6, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
    • sam stone

      hitler was a jew? where do you come up with this?

      May 6, 2013 at 6:28 pm |
  10. Stevie Masen (@combatTVgirl)

    Here's my question: So many of you are spewing forth your own hate speech in the comments sections, calling Christians all kinds of names and condemning them as worthless good-for-nothing sheep. Then why, if you are so convinced there is no God, did you read this post in the first place, let alone comment on it? What do you care if Christians are now persecuted for their beliefs? It shouldn't matter to you; this post should have been less than worthless to you. So why take the time unless it's to join in the persecution?

    May 6, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Madtown

      Maybe they find it interesting.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      And another with a self persecution complex

      May 6, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • sam

      Uh oh; persecution. OUTRAGE!!!1!

      May 6, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      for reperation purposese! Time to reap what you sow, buddy. Just be thankfull we arent treating you the way you used to treat us. Dont worry, we dont need any pitchforks and burning crosses and we wont torture you, like you did us. All we are doing is laughing at you for what you brought upon yourself. Oh, the horror!

      May 6, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • ..

      Because the idea of Christians being a persecuted, hated minority is absurd, that's why, and I wanted to see how they rationalized it. They didn't.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • {*}

      Steve, that was a well laid trap ! At any rate, Christians have survived everything from Nero to Stalin. They will easily survive the current zeitgiest temper tantrums.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • Science

      To.....{*}

      All cults...........creationists, ID believers and devil cults.................

      The fact...............the earth is to old ...........time to EVOLVE !.

      Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

      Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

      May 6, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
    • Stevie Masen (@combatTVgirl)

      I have no persecution complex, only a desire for understanding and respect. I have done my best to sow compassion and a desire for a peaceful co-existence. I have not always succeeded, but I feel I've done pretty well. It takes so much energy to hate; I simply don't understand why so many want to dedicate so much time to it. So I asked the question. I don't consider that to be a trap.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      @ {*}

      It's probably a good thing, as the stats and numbers will now quickly become more realistic. I think we're going to find that the USA is closer to 10-15% Christian, and the majority of those aren't equipped to do much with their beliefs, or possibly hold them in the face of challenge and persecution.

      It's sad, but a bit funny, reading through just a small bit of the comments though. Irrationality reigns. One person is talking Mithras and Mystery Religions, which have been so thoroughly debunked in academia, you'd have to want to miss that to be so clueless. We've got people who can't form coherent arguments, or think through even a couple sentences to understand the opposition's point. We've got name calling. Simpleton mockery. Extremely crude misunderstandings of Christianity, when an actual semi-serious attempt is made to dialog.

      Either the internet is, as Dr. James White often says, a stupidity aggregator, or we're really in trouble as a society. I'm guessing the latter from off-line conversations I've had. People are just a lot more shy and 'nice' about it off-line. The true-selves tend to shine out here more.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      Reduction in power and equal rights = hate?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Stevie Masen
      The subjects of this story are members of the Family Research Council / Focus on The Family.
      They are a powerful political lobby with the stated intention of turning the US into a Christian theocracy.
      They seek to implement state sponsored prayer in school, remove evolution from science curricula, and teach abstinence only s/ex ed, amongst other things (like denying gays their civil rights).

      That is why Christian groups like FOF are of great concern to secularists.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Science

      Stevie Masen (@combatTVgirl)............this too.

      Maybe they should not have created the wedge !!!

      The wedge strategy is a political and social action plan authored by the Discovery Insti-tute, the hub of the intelligent design movement. The strategy was put forth in a Discovery Insti-tute manifesto known as the Wedge Docu-ment,[1] which describes a broad social, political, and academic agenda whose ultimate goal is to defeat materialism, naturalism, evolution, and "reverse the stifling materialist world view and replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic
      convictions.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy

      Dover Trial Transcripts............................................. FACTS.

      Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.

      http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/intelligentdesigncase/dovertrialtranscripts.htm

      May 6, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "why, if you are so convinced there is no God, did you read this post in the first place, let alone comment on it? "

      You guys are dangerous. You burn people at the stake. Read about what you did to Emmet Till sometime, ok? You feel threatened and you want to lash out and kill ME for the Jesus in the sky. I read stuff about dangerous religious maniacs wanting to kill because someone drew a cartoon about their prophet, so why wouldn't I read this? You might be getting ready to bomb us or crucify us or just burn a cross on our lawn, so naturally we are concerned.

      May 6, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • biggles

      They r dogmatic. They stick to a position regardless if it is wrong. They don't debate. They flee. They redirect. They have to claim it is the burden of the Christian first to prove his god exists, to their satisfaction, before they can refute it with evidence. Too bad. Meet my standards first then I'll play ball is the kind of irrational nonsense and superiority the constantly claim Christianity demands. Faith is a gift. And faith isn't intellectual suicide. But, they have no workable arguments. They are loudmouths, terrorists, violent, perverted dogs.

      May 6, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
    • Steve Wilkinson

      Oh yea... dangerous Christians... starting hospitals and universities, feeding the poor... what will they be up to next?

      You might want to study history sometime. You might find that the common thread in what you fear isn't actually religion.

      May 6, 2013 at 6:03 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Do you have an opinion on murder? Wouldn't that only be allowed if you were a murderer?

      May 6, 2013 at 6:06 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Steve, Good deeds are not exclusive to the religious. History records the Crusades, the Inquisition, the missionaries in the Pacific Islands and Africa, etc. so what is your point?

      May 6, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
  11. STFU

    HeavenSent, I see you have been using word "Unbelievers" generously, like muslims call all non followers of Muhammad kafirs; so Jesus and Mohammad followers do have something in common !!!

    May 6, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • Stevie Masen (@combatTVgirl)

      examiner–First cousin marriage is legal in 26 states and all but two are north of the Mason-Dixon line.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      maybe that becuase we never needed to put that in our northern laws, becuase we know not to do that!

      May 6, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Stevie Masen (@combatTVgirl)

      My bad–replied to the wrong thread, sorry.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
  12. Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

    The Christians are losing their power so they equate that to "hate" and losing freedoms???? KKK feels the same in the South. How dare those blacks and gays demand equal rights and we cannot impose our view on them.

    May 6, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • examiner

      Speaking of the south. Gay marriage is the latest plaything for those who love to be liberal. But if gay marriage is thinkable, so should be marriage to first cousins. That means that those old jokes about southerners and incest won't be funny anymore. And anyone who tells such a joke can be crucified for hate speach.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • WhenCowsAttack

      @examiner

      Get out of the room, please. The adults are having a conversation.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • ..

      Ooooh, slippery slope...the last defense of the bigot, lmao...

      May 6, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      That doesnt make sense. Why would you have to let cousins marry.
      Oh I get it. You are trying to use scare tactics. Next you will say why not marry animals.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
    • ..

      And most of the time they don't want to marry their sister, they just want to do 'em.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
    • Eric g

      @examiner: Interesting question...... should first cousins be able to marry if they do not produce offspring? The genetic deformations resulting from inbreeding are the basis for why incest is illegal.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "those old jokes about southerners and incest won't be funny anymore" I live within an hour and a half of Tiger Ridge. They aren't jokes and they weren't funny. These people were isolated and not very sharp, and what happened mostly happened in the 1930s. Their descendants are having to live with it. Eric g, the most common thing in Tiger Ridge was polydactylism, and there was a touch of gargoyle in many faces. People still drive through there on Halloween honking their horns and being ignorant.

      May 6, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
  13. SJ Braden

    Rightwing Christians need to understand that Christianity is A religion, not THE religion, and that even all Christians do not agree with you. The best way to live in harmony is to keep your religion and your politics to yourself.

    May 6, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      That is where logic stops and Christardation takes over.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      But half the fun of religion is getting to condemn this and that from a fiery pulpit!

      May 6, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • Athy

      Right you are, Doc! The religies would have to invent new hobbies if they had to give up condemning others.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "Rightwing Christians need to understand that Christianity is A religion, not THE religion?" They don't have to admit any such thing, and no one is trying to tell them what to believe. They need to understand that in America, we treat all religions as equal. We don't allow one church to own our government, the way EVERY COUNTRY ON EARTH did before 1776.

      May 6, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
  14. Science

    Monkey Math: Baboons Show Brain's Ability to Understand Numbers ............E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................?

    May 3, 2013 — Opposing thumbs, expressive faces, complex social systems: it's hard to miss the similarities between apes and humans. Now a new study with a troop of zoo baboons and lots of peanuts shows that a less obvious trait - the ability to understand numbers - also is shared by humans and their primate cousins.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130503132719.htm

    Where do morals come from?

    By Kelly Murray, CNN

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments

    May 6, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
  15. lamb of dog

    Even though the leaders are elected. And the church leaders are cronies.

    May 6, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
  16. Chuckles

    I have a great idea.

    Everyone says that everyone else is persecuted so lets all keep our opinions to ourselves shall we? Christians have every right to believe that being gay is a sin, and an atheist or non christian has every right to think that christian belief is wrong and silly. Where we cut out this "persecution" is that the christian doesn't need to tell everyone and their mom how wrong it is and try and legislate laws to prove their belief. You don't like gay people? Fine, don't be gay or have gay friends. It's that simple and I promise you the only "persecution" you'll feel is that there people out there who disagree with you.

    May 6, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
  17. TheRationale

    This is absolutely ridiculous.

    "You're all sinners and you're going to hell!"
    "Boo hoo, don't be a bigot towards me and my religious beliefs"

    Honestly, Christian stupidity never ceases to flat out amaze me with its infinite depth.

    May 6, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
  18. Jen

    Don't you hate when your religious beliefs get trumped by others' rights? Here you are, just hating gays/women/Jews/others like the Bible commands and now suddenly you're a bad person for it! And you can no longer yell in public that you are against their sinful behavior, without getting called a 'bigot.'

    May 6, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • fred

      So much for my religious freedom I guess!

      May 6, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Now they know how the KKK feels. I feel the same pity for both.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • ..

      Fred, worship as you like; you will just get called out on hateful behavior hidden by thge pulpit. So?

      May 6, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
    • LinCA

      @fred

      You said, "So much for my religious freedom I guess!"
      Discriminating against others was never part of your religious freedom. Your religion doesn't apply to anyone but yourself. The "rules" that you think flow from it, apply only to you.

      Not a single phrase, not a word, not even a single letter, from your fairy tale applies to anyone but those that believe that nonsense. Your religious freedom doesn't include forcing the bullshit on the sane part of society, or even on those afflicted by a slightly different delusion.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      LOL fred...you lose your 1st amendment right whey you trample on the rights of others.....

      May 6, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "So much for my religious freedom I guess!" Get back to me when you are forced to go to a Catholic church and fined by the civil authorities for non-attendance, then finally imprisoned and forced to confess your sins and repent. Just let me know when that happens, ok?

      May 6, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
  19. Every Black Dude Ever

    WHERE DA WHITE WOMEN AT?!?!

    May 6, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Every White Dude Ever

      "It's just not fair Thomas, even your mouth isn't able to get my manhood past 5 inches! Why did those ebony skinned Adonis's get blessed with six pack abs AND subway sandwich sized sausages? It's Just not fair!"

      "You're preaching to the choir Rick, after that night with Jerome your lovin is like throwing a hot dog down a hallway..."

      May 6, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      If you are going to quote Blazing Saddles, please try to be funny. Otherwise I will make those campfire sounds in your general direction.

      May 6, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
  20. Colin

    The day a Christian can present one piece of evidence supporting the existence of the Judeo Christian god, I will take their belief seriously. However, all I have ever been proffered every time I issue this challange is garbage like "what, do you think it all happened by chance?" or " well how do YOU explain the origins of the Universe?" as if their theory gets a special place and is to be believed unless and until somebody can convincingly negate it !!!

    Well, reality doesn't work that way. If you want to claim something, you have to provide evidence to support it. So, once again, what positive evidence does any Christian have that their god (or any god for that matter) created the Universe?

    May 6, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Dare to be a Daniel

      The evidence you dismissed is the hope you have lost forever

      May 6, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Dare to be Daniel
      Well that's a fine non-sequiter.
      "Full of sound and fury but signifying nothing"...

      May 6, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • ..

      Dare to be Daniel??? Bwa ha ha ha ha!!!! Conceited!

      May 6, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Unbelievers have been lied to when trained to listen and abide in man made lies (traditions of men), which causes them to lose their soul versus Jesus' truth that will save their soul ...

      Matthew 23:29-36
      Matthew 27:20-26
      T itus 1:10-16
      1 S amual 8:4-9
      A cts 9:10-23
      Revelation 2:8-11
      Revelation 3:7-13

      Amen.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Dare to be a Daniel

      You said, "The evidence you dismissed is the hope you have lost forever"
      Do you hope for a quarter in return for a tooth under your pillow? Do you hope the Easter Bunny will lay colored eggs?

      All gods are about as likely to exist as the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. There is exactly equal evidence for all. If you want your imaginary friend to stand apart from other imaginary creatures, you need to start by providing a rational case for it, supported by verifiable evidence.

      Good luck.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      Your quotes of men have noe bearing. You do not have the authority to speak on behalf of the gods

      May 6, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • catholic engineer

      Those of us who believe that God exists are not interested in the scientific “proofs” of athiests. With his observations, postulations, calculations, and ruminations, the best that scientists can discover is always a "someTHING". But we are interested in a SomeONE – a Person. THe proofs atheists want are irrelevant.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • Dare to be a Daniel

      The evidence is Christ, the messiah.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      "The evidence you dismissed is the hope you have lost forever"

      LOL thanks for the laugh.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • Ted Jones the crusader not for khrist

      Dare to be a Daniel

      The evidence is Christ, the messiah
      ...
      And the evidence is?????????????????????????????????????????????

      May 6, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      "Unbelievers have been lied to when trained to listen and abide in man made lies (traditions of men), which causes them to lose their soul versus Jesus' truth that will save their soul ...

      Matthew 23:29-36
      Matthew 27:20-26
      T itus 1:10-16
      1 S amual 8:4-9
      A cts 9:10-23
      Revelation 2:8-11
      Revelation 3:7-13

      Amen."

      LOL those words were written by MORTALS.....whos being lied to now?

      May 6, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      Those of you who believe in god are not interested in "proof".

      May 6, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Don't forget that during Biblical times, there were MANY claimaints to the Messiah role like Simon of Peraea, Athronges, Menahem ben Judah, Vespasian, Simon bar Kokhba, etc. ad nauseum.

      o A lot of the core prophecies "fulfilled" by Jesus are up for debate.
      For example: They say that Jesus being born of a virgin fulfills the Isaiah 7:14prophecy.
      However, the Hebrew term in Isaiah “almah” which means a “young woman”. "Virgin" is a mistranslation.
      Christians assert that Jesus is from David's line, but Joseph is not Christ's biological father.
      Tribal line cannot be passed on through adoption, nor does it pass through the mother.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • snowboarder

      doc, i do enjoy me some macbeth.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Dare to be a Daniel

      You said, "The evidence is Christ, the messiah."
      The only thing that is evidence of, is mental illness.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • Madtown

      The evidence is Christ, the messiah.
      -----
      "Who's Christ? Never heard of him."

      – signed,
      your human brother who God place in an area of the world with no access to christianity

      May 6, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      "Those of us who believe that God exists are not interested in the scientific “proofs” of athiests. "

      Atheists not athiest

      And really, this is not so surprising coming from someone with blinders on. I would however guess that when you're ill you're taking advantage of the medicine that science has come up with for you and not expecting your god to do the healing.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • Dan

      " THe proofs atheists want are irrelevant." Just like the God we want proof of that no religious person has ever been able to do more than say "Unnnnngh, did you feel it? There it was again, did you feel it that time? Come on, don't tell me you didn't feel something just now, deep down inside you, kind of a warm reassuring feeling, well that's God! See you have experienced him too!"

      Apparently God is like wetting the bed...

      May 6, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • fred

      You've been presented with plenty of proof, but every tie you simply deny it's proof. You're blinded by your worldview, and only see the facts you want to, and ignore those you don't. Closed minded and dishonest you are.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • sam

      @Dare to be a Daniel
      "The evidence you dismissed is the hope you have lost forever"

      Were you gazing wistfully out of a rain-splattered window and sighing pensively to yourself when you typed that poetry?

      May 6, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Ian Osmond

      Colin:

      Most actual theologians start with the premise that you CAN'T prove the existence of God scientifically. Most of the arguments about the existence of god are SO poorly done that they're almost painful to read - on BOTH sides, really, but, frankly, the theistic arguments are worse.

      Most serious theologians agree with Stephen Jay Gould's concept of non-overlapping magisteria - religion and science don't cover the same ground. You CAN'T scientifically prove the existence of a god, or any specific nature of God, or whether this or that religious tradition has the Truth about God - except in the most extreme cases: you CAN prove, for instance, that there are no larger-than-human human-like beings that physically live on the top of Mount Olympus. But you cannot prove that those Greek gods have no METAPHYSICAL reality.

      The physical and the metaphysical are disjoint sets. The very nature of "God", as most of us use the word, requires that the Divine NOT be subject to the limitations of the physical universe. Which means that, if you CAN scientifically detect, analyze, or prove it, well, it's NOT fitting into whatever we think of as "God".

      So, congratulations, Colin! Your atheism shows a greater and deeper knowledge of the nature of "God" than naive theistic arguments. You CAN'T be shown scientific evidence of the existence of God, because such a thing definitionally does not exist.

      This means that arguments against whether God does or does not exist are utterly pointless. They CAN'T be determined, EITHER way, scientifically.

      May 6, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • .

      fred just described himself perfectly

      May 6, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • Eric g

      The "proof of god" is irrelevant. Proof is unnecessary until claims of authority or knowledge are based in faith. Claims of authority or knowledge based in faith are dangerous and must be follwed with a demand of verifiable evidence that satisfies the burden of proof inherent to the claim.

      (insert "flying planes into buildings" cliche here)

      May 6, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • snowboarder

      @ian, how incredibly convenient for the theists.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • skolvikings

      Looking for proof there's a God? Sounds just like the people who dismiss credible eye-witnesses to crimes. If there's no forensic evidence, there's no proof, eh?

      May 6, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
    • Eric g

      @skolvikings

      "Looking for proof there's a God? Sounds just like the people who dismiss credible eye-witnesses to crimes. If there's no forensic evidence, there's no proof, eh?"

      Not at all. Many claim to be witness to a god. That claim carries a burden of proof. I would not question a credible eye-witness that they saw something. Their claim that they saw a god requires further verifiable evidence, as it is a different claim. Many people have claim to see Elvis too.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      " Sounds just like the people who dismiss credible eye-witnesses to crimes."

      Except the people who wrote the book were hardly "eye-witnesses".....

      May 6, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Colin

      Thank Ian, and I suppose the same holds true for the existence or non existence of Azura Mazda, Angus, Belenos, Brigid, Dana, Lugh, Dagda, Epona, Allah Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares, Artemis, Atehna, Demeter, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Gaia, God, Hades, Hekate, Helios, Hephaestus, Hera, Hermes, Hestia, Pan, Poseidon, Selene, Uranus, Zeus, Mathilde, Elves, Eostre, Frigg, Ganesh, Hretha, Saxnot, Shef, Shiva Thuno, Tir, Vishnu, Weyland, Woden, Yahweh, Alfar, Balder, Beyla, Bil, Bragi, Byggvir, Dagr, Disir, Eir, Forseti, Freya, Freyr, Frigga, Heimdall, Hel, Hoenir, Idunn, Jord, Lofn, Loki, Mon, Njord, Norns, Nott, Odin, Ran, Saga, Sif, Siofn, Skadi, Snotra, Sol, Syn, Ull, Thor, Tyr, Var, Vali, Vidar, Vor, Herne, Holda, Nehalennia, Nerthus, Endovelicus, Ataegina, Runesocesius, Apollo, Bacchus, Ceres, Cupid, Diana, Janus, Juno, Jupiter, Maia, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Neptune, Pluto, Plutus, Proserpina, Venus, Vesta, Vulcan, Attis, Cybele, El-Gabal, Isis, Mithras, Sol Invictus, Endovelicus, Anubis, Aten, Atum, Bast, Bes, Geb, Hapi, Hathor, Heget, Horus, Imhotep, Isis, Khepry, Khnum, Maahes, Ma’at, Menhit, Mont, Naunet, Neith, Nephthys, Nut, Osiris, Ptah, Ra, Sekhmnet, Sobek, Set, Tefnut, Thoth, An, Anshar, Anu, Apsu, Ashur, Damkina, Ea, Enki, Enlil, Ereshkigal, Nunurta, Hadad, Inanna, Ishtar, Kingu, Kishar, Marduk, Mummu, Nabu, Nammu, Nanna, Nergal, Ninhursag, Ninlil, Nintu, Shamash, Sin, Tiamat, Utu, Mitra, Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukiyomi, Inari, Tengu, Izanami, Izanagi, Daikoku, Ebisu, Benzaiten, Bishamonten, Fukurokuju, Jurojin, Hotei, Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, Inti, Kon, Mama Cocha, Mama Quilla, Manco Capac, Pachacamac and Zaramama.

      As well as any other gods who I missed.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Eric g

      All except Marduk.
      That guy is a toolbag.

      May 6, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "The evidence you dismissed is the hope you have lost forever" Yeah, Santa Claus ain't real and I'm all boo hoo wah about it. Can you repair my lost belief in Santa, mister man?

      May 6, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.