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When Christians become a 'hated minority'
Evangelical Christians say they are the new victims of intolerance - they're persecuted for condemning homosexuality.
May 5th, 2013
06:00 AM ET

When Christians become a 'hated minority'

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - When Peter Sprigg speaks publicly about his opposition to homosexuality, something odd often happens.

During his speeches, people raise their hands to challenge his assertions that the Bible condemns homosexuality, but no Christians speak out to defend him.

“But after it is over, they will come over to talk to me and whisper in my ear, ‘I agree with everything you said,’" says Sprigg, a spokesman for The Family Research Council, a powerful, conservative Christian lobbying group.

We’ve heard of the “down-low” gay person who keeps his or her sexual identity secret for fear of public scorn. But Sprigg and other evangelicals say changing attitudes toward homosexuality have created a new victim: closeted Christians who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality but will not say so publicly for fear of being labeled a hateful bigot.

As proof, Sprigg points to the backlash that ESPN commentator Chris Broussard sparked recently. Broussard was called a bigot and a purveyor of hate speech when he said an NBA player who had come out as gay was living in “open rebellion to God.” Broussard said the player, Jason Collins, was “living in unrepentant sin” because the Bible condemns homosexuality.

“In the current culture, it takes more courage for someone like Chris Broussard to speak out than for someone like Jason Collins to come out,” says Sprigg, a former pastor. “The media will hail someone who comes out of the closet as gay, but someone who simply expresses their personal religious views about homosexual conduct is attacked.”

When is disagreement hate?

Bryan Litfin, a theology professor at Moody Bible Institute in Illinois, says Christians should be able to publicly say that God designed sex to take place within a marriage between a man and a woman.

“That isn’t so outrageous,” Litfin says. “Nobody is expressing hate toward homosexuals by saying that. Since when is disagreement the same as hate?”

But quoting the Bible doesn't inoculate anyone from becoming a bigot or hater, some scholars say. There's a point at which a Christian's opposition to homosexuality can become bigotry, and even hate speech, they say.

Crossing such a line has happened many times in history.

A literal reading of the Bible was used to justify all sorts of hatred: slavery, the subjugation of women and anti-Semitism, scholars and pastors say.

“Truly damaging speech cannot be excused just because it expresses genuine religious belief,” says Mark D. Jordan, author of “Recruiting Young Love: How Christians Talk about Homosexuality.”

“Some religious beliefs, sincerely held, are detestable. They cannot be spoken without disrupting social peace,” says Jordan, a professor at the John Danforth Center on Religion & Politics at Washington University in St. Louis.

The point where religious speech becomes hate speech is difficult to define, though, scholars and activists say.

The Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama is a nonprofit civil rights group that combats and monitors hate groups. Three years ago, it designated the Family Research Council, the group that Sprigg represents, as a hate group - a characterization the group stridently rejects.

Mark Potok,  a center spokesman, says there’s no shared definition of what constitutes hate speech.

“There is no legal meaning. It’s just a phrase,” Potok says. “Hate speech is in the ear of the beholder.”

'One of the most hated minorities?'

Intolerance may be difficult to define, but some evangelicals say they have become victims of intolerance because of their reverence for the Bible.

The conservative media culture is filled with stories about evangelicals being labeled as “extremists” for their belief that homosexuality is a sin.

Their sense of persecution goes beyond their stance on homosexuality. There are stories circulating of evangelical students being suspended for opposing homosexuality, a teacher fired for giving a Bible to a curious student, and the rise of anti-Christian bigotry.

A blogger at The American Dream asked in one essay:

“Are evangelical Christians rapidly becoming one of the most hated minorities in America?”

The reluctance of evangelicals to speak out against homosexuality is often cited as proof they are being forced into the closet.

Joe Carter, editor for The Gospel Coalition, an online evangelical magazine, wrote a blog post entitled “Debatable: Is the Christian Church a ‘Hate Group’?" He warned that young people will abandon “orthodox” Christian churches that teach that homosexuality is a sin for fear of being called haters.

“Faux civility, embarrassment, prudishness and a fear of expressing an unpopular opinion has caused many Christians to refrain from explaining how homosexual conduct destroys lives,” Carter wrote.

Some Christians fear that opposing homosexuality could cause them to lose their jobs and “haunt them forever,” Carter says.

“It’s easier to just go along,” says Carter, who is also author of “How to Argue Like Jesus.” “You don’t want to be lumped in with the bigots. That’s a powerful word."

Edward Johnson, a communication professor at Campbell University in North Carolina, says we are now living in a "postmodern" era where everything is relative and there is no universally accepted truth. It's an environment in which anyone who says "this is right" and "that is wrong" is labeled intolerant, he says.

There was a time when a person could publicly say homosexuality was wrong and people could consider the statement without anger, he says. Today, people have reverted to an intellectual tribalism where they are only willing to consider the perspective of their own tribe.

“They are incapable of comprehending that someone may have a view different than theirs,” Johnson says. “For them anyone who dares to question the dogma of the tribe can only be doing so out of hatred.”

Sprigg, from the Family Research Council, says his condemnation of homosexual conduct does not spring from intolerance but a desire to protect gays from harmful conduct, he says.

Sprigg, a senior fellow for policy studies at the council, wrote in a council pamphlet that homosexual men are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are straight men. He also wrote that gay men are also afflicted with a higher rate of sexually transmitted diseases and mental illness as well.

Sprigg says he does not believe homosexuality is a choice and that “personal testimonies" and "clinical experience” show that some people “can and do change from gay to straight.”

“Maybe we need to do a better job of showing that we are motivated by Christian love,” Sprigg says. “Love is wanting the best for someone, and acting to bring that about.”

'That's a lie'

Potok, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, has little use for the love Sprigg talks about.

He calls it hatred, and his voice rose in anger when he talked about the claims by Sprigg and other Christian groups that gay men are more predisposed to molest children and that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful.

He says the Southern Poverty Law Center didn’t designate the Family Research Group a hate group because they view homosexuality as a sin or oppose same-sex marriage, Potok says. There are plenty of Christian groups who hold those beliefs but are not hate groups, he says.

A group becomes a hate group when it attacks and maligns an entire class of people for their “immutable characteristics,” Potok says. The Family Research Council spreads known falsehoods about gays and lesbians, he says, such as the contention that gay men are predisposed to abuse children.

“That’s a lie,” Potok says. “These guys are engaging in straight-up defamation of a very large group of people. There are not many things much worse than you can say in America about somebody than they are a child molester.”

Potok scoffed at Spriggs’ claim that the council and other evangelical anti-gay groups are victims of intolerance.

“That’s whining on the part of people who spend their days and nights attacking gay people and then some people criticize them and they don’t like it,” he says. “That’s pathetic. It reminds me of slave owners complaining that people are saying ugly things about them.”

What the Bible says

What about the popular evangelical claim, “We don’t hate the sinner, just the sin” – is that seen as intolerance or hate speech when it comes to homosexuality?

There are those who say you can’t hate the sin and love the sinner because being gay or lesbian is defined by one’s sexual behavior; it’s who someone is.

“Most people who identify as gay and lesbian would say that this is not an action I’m choosing to do; this is who I am,” says Timothy Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible: The Unexpected History of an Accidental Book.”

Beal, a religion professor at Case Western University in Ohio, says it should be difficult for any Christian to unequivocally declare that the Bible opposes homosexuality because the Bible doesn’t take a single position on the topic. It's an assertion that many scholars and mainline Protestant pastors would agree with.

Some people cite Old Testament scriptures as condemning homosexuality, such as  Leviticus 18:22 - “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” But other Christians counter by saying they are not bound by the Old Testament.

There are those who also cite New Testament scriptures like Romans 1:26-27 - “… Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men. …”

Beal, however, says Jesus said little about sex. And the Apostle Paul, who wrote Romans, was probably referring to male prostitution and men having sexual relations with boys, a practice in the Greco-Roman world.

“Paul does not understand genetics and sexual orientation the way we understand it now as something much more than a choice,” says Beal.

Some evangelicals say Christians can’t change their view of biblical truth just because times change. But some scholars reply:

Sure you can. Christians do it all the time.

Denying a woman’s ability to preach in church was justified by scriptures like 1 Timothy 2:11-12 - “… I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” But many churches have abandoned that teaching - and some scholars say a woman preached the first Christian sermon, when Mary Magdalene proclaimed that Jesus had risen.

Slaveholders in 19th century America justified slavery through a literal reading of the Bible, quoting Titus 2:9-10 – “Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything. …” And anti-Semitism was justified by the claims that Jews killed Jesus, such as Matthew 27: 25-26 - “Let his blood be on us and on our children.”

Litfin, from Moody Bible Institute, acknowledged that the Bible once sanctioned slavery, but he said that practice was a “cultural expression” that changed over time. Evangelicals who oppose same-sex marriage by citing the Bible are on more solid ground, he says.

“Marriage is a universal and timeless institution that God set up for maximum human flourishing. He set it up in the first book of the Bible with the story of Adam and Eve. It is consistent throughout the whole Bible. … Marriage is in a different category than those cultural things.”

Public jousts over the Bible's stance on homosexuality rarely change people’s minds. What changes is when people get to know gay and lesbian people as friends and hear their story, says Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible.”

“If you open up to that other person genuinely, you basically come to a point where you have to sacrifice them to your ideology or crack open your ideology to make a hospitable place for them,” Beal says.

One Christian pastor who is gay says the uproar over the ESPN commentator’s comments can actually be good,  because debates help settle moral disputes.

“What appears to us as antiquated and prejudicial now was once a disputed issue that required debate,” says the Rev. Richard McCarty, a minister in the United Church of Christ and a religious studies professor at Mercyhurst University in Pennsylvania.

Until the debate over homosexuality is settled - if it ever is - there may be plenty of evangelical Christians who feel as if they are now being forced to stay in the closet.

Carter, the evangelical blogger, says he foresees a day when any church that preaches against homosexuality will be marginalized. Just as many churches now accept divorce, they will accept sexual practices once considered sinful.

“It’s getting to the point,” he says, “where churches are not going to say that any sexual activity is wrong.”

- CNN Writer

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Christianity • Church • Church and state • Culture wars • Protest • Sex • Sexuality • Sports

soundoff (10,982 Responses)
  1. Doc Vestibule

    @Josh
    Yes, everybody has a way of looking at the universe.
    What you must realize is that the rejection of gods is only one small part of it.
    Do not fall for the Kierkergaardian conceit that without God, one must be miserable even if they think they're happy.
    That the human race is not the predilect object of Creation doesn't make me feel depressed.
    The realization that that concepts such as ‘state', ‘society’ and ‘government’ have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals is not negative.
    Morality, blame, guilt, responsibility etc. are matters taking place inside human beings singly and nowhere else. Therefore, we should be rational and realize that not everyone will share the same evaluations of good and evil. We must try to live perfectly in an imperfect world, aware that our efforts will be less than perfect while trying to remain undismayed by self knowledge of failure.
    To me, that concept is central to Christianity. Christ taught that we are imperfect and must struggle all our lives to better ourselves.
    People are not good to one another by default. Effective cooperation is a learned skill and the successful religions recognize this. Christianity reveals this truth about ourselves most poignantly in the character of Jesus Christ. His message is one of peace, charity, modesty and forgiveness – the traits most important to develop when living in a society.
    But the character of Jesus is not unique – He is an example of an archetype in mythology.
    Religion, like people, has evolved based on the laws of Darwinian evolution in that different environments have brought about different religions.
    Sociological evolution is leading us away from religion. Not because Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc are negative in and of themselves, but becuase they are necessarily divisive.

    May 7, 2013 at 9:00 am |
  2. We are evangelicals

    3 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

    May 7, 2013 at 8:59 am |
  3. The real Tom

    CNN is having a conniption again. Posts are disappearing and clicking on the "recent posts" doesn't work.

    May 7, 2013 at 8:59 am |
    • ..

      Looks like they're doing mass deletions again.

      May 7, 2013 at 9:01 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      LET's Religiosity Law #1 – If Jesus came back today he would be shot in the head. That's what you do to put down zombies; otherwise they eat your brains.

      May 7, 2013 at 9:25 am |
    • Science

      so of like the christians be nice article ?

      May 7, 2013 at 9:38 am |
    • Science

      dang it..............sort

      May 7, 2013 at 9:39 am |
    • jim

      I am glad to see it wasn't a bad acid trip come back to bite me. felt like an old rerun of the Twilight Zone. I knew I was here last night or maybe we're all wrong and we are not in the place we thought we were. oh well carry on debaters cause if they delete you they are paying attention.

      May 7, 2013 at 9:40 am |
    • Science

      Tom here is one that went to the abyss !............go figure ? urls funny science

      Well HS where did your comment go ?................that was above ?

      Is this IT !

      HeavenSent

      Obsessed much (LOL)?

      May 6, 2013 at 6:36 pm | Report abuse |

      May 7, 2013 at 10:44 am | Report abuse |

      May 7, 2013 at 10:53 am |
    • Science

      Page 88 by the way...................under the Chad thread,

      May 7, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • Bible Clown©

      They get rid of it after a few "Report Abuse" clicks. I'm waiting for the "Use This Doll To Show Where They Touched You" button myself.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
  4. Tom

    When "Christians" stop telling gay people that they are living in "unrepentant sin"... perhaps they will not see a backlash.

    May 7, 2013 at 8:54 am |
  5. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good... No, Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good... When the levee breaks, mama you got to move...

    May 7, 2013 at 8:39 am |
  6. Hey Science guy

    You're no better than the idiot chris-tards who can only quote the Babble because they don't have orginal thoughts in their heads. You seem to be of the same cloth, because all you can do is post inane videos. I guess your thoughts are too easily molded, because all I see from you are posts of other people's work. Can't you type an original sentence without the visual aids? Or havent they covered that in your 4th year of 5th grade yet?

    May 7, 2013 at 7:15 am |
    • Science

      Hey Science guy

      Math works...so do facts. with a source..................E = mc2.................(U-Pb)..................two that do not lie or sin !

      Really there is no leg to stand on when it comes to a fairy in the sky.

      Peace

      May 7, 2013 at 7:28 am |
    • Science

      Hey Science guy..... ........do you have one................a Y ?

      Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

      Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

      No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US

      Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve..

      Peace

      May 7, 2013 at 7:37 am |
    • Science

      One more for you ...Hey Science guy..............

      Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

      The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

      The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

      Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

      April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |

      May 7, 2013 at 7:42 am |
    • Hey Science guy

      I know there's no god required, and that is a GOOD thing. As far as chromsomes, I have the standard issue 46. So, anything orginal from you, or are you just going to keep posting the same damned videos and formulas over and over again?

      May 7, 2013 at 7:46 am |
    • Science

      Hey Science guy

      Thanks for the help !

      Find a chondrite magnets stick to them !!!

      May 7, 2013 at 7:51 am |
    • Science

      Hey Science guy....................the sign in picture above is BULLSH-IT to the MAX !

      May 7, 2013 at 7:55 am |
    • Hey Science guy

      well, of course it is!! It's quoting from a 2000 year old book of fiction. If I want to read something of relevance from that long ago, I'll read Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Sophocles, or even Caesar. You know, real works by people who actually existed.

      May 7, 2013 at 7:59 am |
    • Science

      Hey Science guy..............another good read is Stephen King and Clancy.............plus the Dover trail transcripts.

      Have a great day.

      May 7, 2013 at 8:07 am |
    • Hey Science guy

      I'ver read the Dover transcripts :), and I've read everything Tom Clancy has put out. But, I'm really NOT that much of a Stephen King fan, either his books or his movies.

      May 7, 2013 at 8:16 am |
    • Science

      Hey Science guy...............................star dust !..................telescopes are cool !

      Hubble Sees the Remains of a Star Gone Supernova

      May 6, 2013 — A new image from the Hubble Space Telescope shows delicate wisps of gas that make up an object known as SNR B0519-69.0, or SNR 0519 for short.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130506161618.htm

      May 7, 2013 at 8:20 am |
    • nclaw441

      Some believe in God, others do not. It is the very essence of faith that there is no proof of the existence of God. True tolerance (in short supply by both sides of this discussion) demands that, while we may disagree with each other, that we respect the right of others to believe as they do, even if we vehemently disagree, especially where holding that belief does us no harm.

      I disagree with most of how Rodney King led his life, but he was right: "Can't we all just get along?"

      May 7, 2013 at 8:30 am |
    • The real Tom

      nclaw, that would be lovely, but it must have escaped your notice that believers are attempting to force everyone to accept their beliefs as truth. They'd like creationism to be taught in public schools. They'd like to keep gay marriage illegal. They'd like to take women's rights from them.

      If they'd stop insisting on interfering with others' lives, I wouldn't care about their beliefs. If they'd behave as their Christ said they should, I would have no problem with their convictions. Some of them can't seem to do that.

      May 7, 2013 at 8:34 am |
    • Science

      nclaw441............believe in your fairy all you.want............but the truth is best for children !

      Figure it out ok !

      Thanks for the help !

      May 7, 2013 at 8:35 am |
  7. Reality

    As good students, you have read the reiterations of the "fems" (flaws, errors, muck and stench) of religion. Therefore the seeds have been planted in rich soil. Go therefore and preach the truth to all nations, reiterating as you go amongst the lost, bred, born and brainwashed souls of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism as Rational Thinking makes its triumphant return all because of you!!!!

    May 7, 2013 at 7:09 am |
  8. RJ

    So, to sum up: Christians are upset that they're being persecuted for persecuting others? i.e. "Waaaah! People are now treating us the way we've been treating them!" I guess it's not the same thing if you're persecuting others in the name of Jesus...

    May 7, 2013 at 7:03 am |
    • Mirosal

      RJ.. it's karma .. the definition of karma is ... nature's way of saying "Let's see how YOU fvckin' like it!!"

      May 7, 2013 at 7:05 am |
    • Charles

      Christians helping to demonstrate a feature of a non-Abrahamic religion, now that's karma!

      May 7, 2013 at 8:01 am |
    • Bible Clown©

      Exactly, they are discovering that Buddha was right and that karma will get you if you don't walk the path of righteousness. Why didn't Jesus tell them about karma? Was He silenced by the authorities before He could write that chapter? Did they think He meant Kama?

      May 7, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
  9. Science

    See for yourself below.................the sign in picture above is wrong !!!........The fairy in the sky did NOT create us !!!

    Monkey Math: Baboons Show Brain's Ability to Understand Numbers ..........E = mc2..............(U-Pb) numbers do not lie !

    May 3, 2013 — Opposing thumbs, expressive faces, complex social systems: it's hard to miss the similarities between apes and humans. Now a new study with a troop of zoo baboons and lots of peanuts shows that a less obvious trait – the ability to understand numbers – also is shared by humans and their primate cousins.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130503132719.htm

    May 7, 2013 at 6:08 am |
    • saggyroy

      What does the ability of baboons say about Americans that can only do math with a calculator?

      May 7, 2013 at 6:16 am |
    • Mirosal

      Roy, isn't a gathering of baboons called a "congress"? Just sayin' lol 🙂

      May 7, 2013 at 6:32 am |
    • Science

      saggyroy

      Easy/lazy way (technology is good though)...................but we had our children learn math with out one...........it is a great

      mind game, math !

      Peace

      May 7, 2013 at 6:33 am |
    • Science

      Sort of like a calculator ?

      Apps for Apes: Smithsonian Orangutans using iPads for Enrichment

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsSIKj5ULp4

      May 7, 2013 at 7:06 am |
    • Science

      Education works for children !

      The ORIGIN story from that book does not work !

      From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

      Scientists have unearthed the first direct signs of cheesemaking, at a site in Poland that dates back 7,500 years.

      Human Evolution

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2cHumanevo.shtml

      Peace

      May 7, 2013 at 7:22 am |
    • Larry

      Science
      We still don't have a proof that God, or some other god did't have a hand in the origins of the universe. All we do know is that it isn't some forgone conclusion that some supernatural agent was needed. The universe could have come about naturally, which is a far simpler and more eloquent explanation than "God did it" which only creates more questions than it answers.

      May 7, 2013 at 8:06 am |
    • Science

      Hey Larry

      Gravity is not up for debate ! ............E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas..........that do not lie or sin !!!..........

      BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !

      Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet

      Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130425142250.htm

      Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.

      Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’

      Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
      bears his name as the “God particle.”

      http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/08/atheist-prof-peter-higgs-stop-calling-higgs-bosen-the-god-particle/

      May 7, 2013 at 8:14 am |
    • Science

      Hey Larry...............star dust !

      Hubble Sees the Remains of a Star Gone Supernova

      May 6, 2013 — A new image from the Hubble Space Telescope shows delicate wisps of gas that make up an object known as SNR B0519-69.0, or SNR 0519 for short.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130506161618.htm

      May 7, 2013 at 8:18 am |
    • nclaw441

      The primates also eat FOOD. Proof positive that there is no God. /off sarcasm

      May 7, 2013 at 8:38 am |
    • Science

      nclaw441..................and a bear sh-its in the woods by the trout stream !

      May 7, 2013 at 9:12 am |
  10. saggyroy

    I think it is because they try to put god into schools.

    May 7, 2013 at 6:08 am |
  11. Tom

    Same old, same old. 'I'm being told I can't bully, persecute or discriminate against people any more! That means I'm being bullied, persecuted and discriminated against! Waaah!'

    The irony is not lost on me.

    May 7, 2013 at 5:57 am |
    • saggyroy

      Here in Michigan, one of our law makers tried to introduce into our anti-bullying legislation a provision that would make bullying ok in cases of religious convictions. Just sayin'

      May 7, 2013 at 6:20 am |
  12. weareallgods

    Ahhhh karma

    May 7, 2013 at 2:08 am |
    • bobk52

      Karma b good!

      May 7, 2013 at 3:13 am |
    • Siddhartha Gautama

      Oh no, Buddha was real!

      May 7, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
  13. Athy

    The comment total is decreasing.

    May 7, 2013 at 1:44 am |
    • Ugh

      Why do you insist on using the term "gubmint?" Do you somehow think it's cutesy? Take it from me, it's not. You can do better. Please try.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:52 am |
  14. Filthy Hind I love to Mithrism lick and talk Islam bunk

    There is no reason that cultural norms from 3000 years ago should inform modern human discourse.
    The ONLY reason these laws are in the texts of what would become the Bible is that they already existed in the culture.
    They came from human culture, not the gods. Sprigg obviously knows nothing about the Bible, or the ancient Near East.
    Idiot.

    May 7, 2013 at 12:57 am |
  15. Reality

    Darn, darn, darn,

    Here I thought this thread ended a few hours ago. Again:

    As good students, you have read the reiterations of the "fems" (flaws, errors, muck and stench) of religion. Therefore the seeds have been planted in rich soil. Go therefore and preach the truth to all nations, reiterating as you go amongst the lost, bred, born and brainwashed souls of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism as Rational Thinking makes its triumphant return all because of you!!!!

    Lesson # 1-

    Only for the newbies:

    Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e. the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    • A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinker bells? etc.) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.

    Added details available upon written request.

    May 6, 2013 at 11:52 pm |
  16. myweightinwords

    The simple act of believing something as truth, even when that belief is based on religion, does not, by itself mean that the belief is not bigoted or hateful.

    In fact, expressing your belief as a means of measuring another person does nothing to showcase your own goodness or the truth of your belief. All it actually does is put on display your discomfort that not all share your belief.

    May 6, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
    • Peregrine

      If supporting legislation aimed specifically at limiting the rights of a segment of the population is not bigotry then please define exactly what bigotry is please.

      May 6, 2013 at 11:23 pm |
      • myweightinwords

        Peregrine,

        I'm not sure if your comment was aimed at me or not.

        The textbook definition of bigotry is: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself

        So yes, supporting legislation aimed specifically at limiting the rights of others who are different than you is certainly a sign of bigotry.

        May 6, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I sincerely hope that "faith" is not the religious, but crazy, faith who has been posting here for the past few months. If recent posts are not by an imposter, it appears that her believer mental illness is progressing very rapidly.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:27 am |
    • Science

      Josh ..............no hell !............but it looks like you like that cult !

      May 7, 2013 at 5:41 am |
    • Bible Clown©

      "I sincerely hope that "faith" is not the religious, but crazy, faith who has been posting here"

      Faith hates me because I did her sisters Hope and Charity.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
  17. Heretic

    What a cacophony of madness this is. Why try to reason with a religious person? You will sooner draw blood out of a stone than talk any sense into what is left of their poor minds.

    May 6, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
    • ..

      Good old faith is lying for Jesus again. Unless s/he is talking about a differnt Jimmy Carter. Whoda hell knows with this one?

      May 6, 2013 at 11:13 pm |
    • Science

      fred......you really have no leg to stand on , when it comes to your fairy in the sky .

      May 7, 2013 at 5:48 am |
  18. Vic

    The world is cluttered with conflicting viewpoints and politics that it is hard for anyone to discern the TRUTH anymore! It is reminiscent of pollution and toxic ambiance where one seeks fresh air to breathe clearly again!

    When I seek the TRUTH about God, I start with a FRESH LOOK AROUND this Creation and Life in it, and I see Prima Facie EVIDENCE of God, just like a Breath of Fresh Air!

    May 6, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I bet you don't have a single bit of actual evidence, but go ahead, surprise me.

      May 6, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Emotional reactions are not proof of god.

      I can look at the beauty and the splendor of the world and the universe, and guess what? I don't see god. The most amazing realization that I've ever had was when I realized that all of this happened without the need for any god.

      May 6, 2013 at 11:05 pm |
    • Nick

      Vic, your initial premise is flawed. Start without the creator assumption out of the gate, and do try to stifle confirmation bias. See where that takes you.

      May 7, 2013 at 12:01 am |
    • fred

      Nick
      Great advice you apply your confirmation bias to the foundation that there is no creator and your view somehow makes more sense? Nonsense.
      Only God can open the eyes of those dead set against the concept of a creator who have been deluded to thinking quantum gravity phase somehow represents a more enlightened causation.

      May 7, 2013 at 12:16 am |
    • HotAirAce

      What fred, a typical dishonest believer, is not saying is that *every* time he is challenged to override his confirmation bias, he eventually admits that he does not have a single factual, objective, verifiable or independent bit of evidence for his beliefs. He, like many other Babble Humpers, throw around claims of evidence, and attempt to distort science to support their cult's claims, but *never* come through. Grab some popcorn and watch. . .

      May 7, 2013 at 12:41 am |
    • fred

      "What fred, a typical dishonest believer,"
      =>Instantly when an atheist is faced with a scientist that actually knows how tensor calculus is applied in Pre-big bang cosmologies we see the outpouring of personal attack.

      "he eventually admits that he does not have a single factual, objective, verifiable or independent bit of evidence for his beliefs."
      =>restated HotAirAce is actually complementing my honesty which directly refutes his opening statement that I am dishonest. Interestingly enough it is the atheist that seems to have problems admitting their rejection of God is also based simply on beliefs as evidence of causation continues to be purely speculative musings.

      "He, like many other Babble Humpers,"
      =>back to the insults. When personal insults do not work try try try again.

      " throw around claims of evidence"
      =>scientific evidence does not and cannot address God.

      "attempt to distort science to support their cult's claims,"
      =>I made no claims based on science except to reject your claim that science proves or disproves God is required for causation or that there is no God needed as I made it clear that would not be an accepted position.

      "Grab some popcorn and watch."
      =>tired of Tom and Jerry reruns?

      May 7, 2013 at 1:08 am |
    • HotAirAce

      There you go again fred, attempting to drag in scientific phrases and projecting your lack of evidence onto me. I made no claims about science and the existence of god – you are creating, again, that straw man. I came to my view on religious cults and gods because of a lack of evidence for their claims, not because of anything a scientist says. You give away your inability to learn, and the depth of your indoctrination, when you state there are positions that are not acceptable. If you were honest, you would openly admit there is a non-zero probability your god does not exist, especially given zero evidence for, as I admit there is a small, but virtually zero (given no evidence for), probability your god does exist. Who is more open and honest? Who is suffering from delusions?

      May 7, 2013 at 1:24 am |
    • fred

      HotAirAce
      You are correct in that I cannot drop below 100% confidence that God is exactly as presented to me. I just did a back flip and you have no evidence but given that I could have you must assign a non zero value. I know that I just did one. That does not make me delusional it makes me provide testimony about what just happened. Based on my personal testimony and the testimony of others that I have witnessed God is exactly as revealed.

      May 7, 2013 at 1:56 am |
    • HotAirAce

      And the cycle is complete! You have gone from claiming evidence to having testimony in just a few minutes and posts. Testimony IS NOT evidence!

      May 7, 2013 at 2:01 am |
    • sam stone

      fred: personal revelations are fine, but they are not convincing

      May 7, 2013 at 2:02 am |
    • fred

      sam stone
      HotAirAce
      I agree we both go through life and are presented with evidence some scientific and some without scientific basis. God is based on testimony and belief is a matter of faith. Alternative explanations to God are also based on testimony or scientific speculation / musings and belief or non belief a matter of faith.

      May 7, 2013 at 2:37 am |
    • Science

      fred and vic you better go talk to your buddy Chad !............you know fred ....vic too !!

      May 7, 2013 at 5:37 am |
    • Science

      fred......you really have no leg to stand on , when it comes to your fairy in the sky . repost in correct thread

      May 7, 2013 at 5:50 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Once again, fred displays his complete ignorance or denial of The Scientific Method.

      May 7, 2013 at 5:50 am |
    • Bible Clown©

      "I see Prima Facie EVIDENCE of God, just like a Breath of Fresh Air!"

      I guess he means that a breath of fresh air is literally his proof of God's existence. I like my proof to have a little more proofiness in it. Look, some air, God is real? Not really feeling it.

      May 7, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
  19. Saraswati

    "Nobody is expressing hate toward hom.o.exuals by saying that. Since when is disagreement the same as hate?"

    What's really pathetic is that they really think everyone will let their bigotry slide as long as the word "hate" is removed. But to the rest of the world they may as well be saying they don't *hate* people of other races, they just think they should be enslaved, and hey, that's just "disagreement". You've really got to be in deep delusion not to realize how stupid it sounds.

    May 6, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
  20. Chuck Anziulewicz

    Well, SHUCKS. I'm sorry poor Peter Sprigg feels so persecuted ... but then again, Gay people aren't the ones telling HIM that HE isn't allowed to marry the person he loves.

    May 6, 2013 at 9:58 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      well said, Chuck.

      May 6, 2013 at 10:08 pm |
    • The real Tom

      HS, you're stuck on stupid. Jiggle your handle and maybe your mouth will stop running.

      May 6, 2013 at 10:15 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Real Tom: Thanks for the laugh. I may have to borrow that one sometime.

      May 6, 2013 at 11:07 pm |
    • Charles

      HS
      Matthew 24:38
      For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;

      Hmmm... people were marrying before the flood? Back in those sinful old times leading up to the flood? Hardly seems like the holy inst.itution mandated by God that the anti-gay marriage crowd would have us believe it to be. Sounds like most people's happiest days, celebrating and marrying. Why did God find THAT so offensive?

      May 6, 2013 at 11:34 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Gods, at least the alleged and unproven ones. do seem to hate men having fun. . .

      May 7, 2013 at 12:49 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.