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May 11th, 2013
10:00 PM ET

My Take: ‘Gay Christian’ is not an oxymoron

Editor’s note: Justin Lee is the Executive Director of the Gay Christian Network and author of Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate.

By Justin Lee, Special to CNN

(CNN)–In high school, I was a Christian know-it-all.

My nickname was "God boy," and I was known for regularly preaching at my friends about social issues of the day. I dismissed their objections - and accusations of homophobia - as intolerance for my faith.

"I'm just telling you what God's Word says," I'd argue.

Years later I realized my mistake. What my peers most objected to wasn't my beliefs - it was my condescending attitude. I debated and preached when I should have listened. I thought that stating my position loudly and unyieldingly was a sign of strength. In the process, I alienated my friends.

I'm still an evangelical Christian, but one thing is now crystal clear to me. American evangelicals' bad reputation isn't just because of what we believe. It's mostly because of how we behave.

When ESPN commentator Chris Broussard was criticized for saying that openly gay NBA player Jason Collins was “openly rebelling against God,” some evangelicals argued that conservative theological views are no longer tolerated in America.

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But they're missing the point.

Broussard's language didn't just express a religious view about sexual morality; it referred to gay people in ways that were dehumanizing, reducing all gay people's lives to a single sex act. Other outspoken Christians routinely say even worse things, comparing gay people to pedophiles, for example.

No one is immune from criticism in a free country with diverse beliefs. But if Christians feel particularly singled out at times, I'd argue that our perceived lack of empathy for others is largely to blame.

I can often test a Christian's level of empathy by offering a single admission: When I was 18, I realized that I'm gay.

Empathetic Christians are typically intrigued by such a statement, even if they also question how a conservative Southern Baptist could also be openly gay. They want to know about my struggles, how my family and church responded, and whether I ever feel my faith and sexuality are at odds with one another.

I love these questions, because they show that the other person genuinely sees me as a human being.

But far too often, Christians respond not with curiosity and questions but with politics and preaching.

They quote Bible passages at me, make assumptions about my faith, or tell me why they’re opposed to same-sex marriage.

I'm no longer a person to them; I'm a symbol of a culture war. A battlefield. And when I don't want to be treated that way, they assume I'm turning away because I didn't really want to hear the truth.

This kind of behavior is why so many of my LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) friends want nothing to do with the church.

But it's not only them.

In my book, "Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate," I share the story of Cindy, a conservative evangelical mom whose life was thrown into turmoil when her son told her he was gay.

This wasn't a political question for Cindy; it was a personal one. But the dehumanizing rhetoric about gay people she heard from the pulpit made her afraid to talk to anyone at church about her son's sexuality.

Christians are not a monolithic group. I know many empathetic Christians, including many who speak up regularly for their LGBT brothers and sisters.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

The loudest megaphones do not speak for the rest of us, but they are still loud, and legion. To them I say: Gay people are not an issue. We're people. Some of us are Christians, too. And if it disturbs you that I refer to myself as both gay and Christian, I invite you to take the time to get to know me, and read what I write. You don't have to agree, and you might think I’m a sinner, but at least you’ll see me as a human being.

Baptist minister and author Tony Campolo quips that Jesus entreated Christians not to "love the sinner and hate the sin," but to "love the sinner and hate your own sin."

Jesus saved his harshest words for the self-righteously devout and chose the outcasts and sinners as his closest friends.

Perhaps a lesson in Jesus-style humility might do us all some good.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Justin Lee.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Homosexuality • Opinion

soundoff (3,629 Responses)
  1. Atheist Hunter

    Human knowledge, apart from God, is flawed. The Bible also refers to it as worthless because it isn’t tempered by love (1 Corinthians 13:2). The knowledge man possesses tends to make one proud. “Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up” (1 Corinthians 8:1). Therefore, the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake, without seeking God, is foolishness. “Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom . . . but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind. For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief” (Ecclesiastes 1:17-18). Worldly knowledge is a false knowledge which is opposed to the truth, and Paul urges us to “Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith” (1 Timothy 6:20-21). Human knowledge is opposed to God’s knowledge and therefore is no knowledge at all; rather, it is foolishness.

    May 13, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Don't hunters normally have weapons and ammunition?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:36 pm |
    • Observer

      Atheist Hunter,

      It's always entertaining to hear religious people put down education. It's kind of like saying that the dumber you are, the better God likes you.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
    • mama k

      I'm sure hardliners were reminding people of that notion when they were first approached with ground-breaking news about the earth being round. And didn't they throw Galileo in jail for his "knowledge"? The thing is, we have this knowledge now about homosexuality and it's not going away. The question is – how much longer can religion in general keep trying to explain away this fundamental component of nature away as "sin"?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • Millie

      I see a little boy who wants to play dress up as a hunter. What's wrong, little boy? You scared of those big bad atheists? LOL!
      You don't know squat about hunting. You're just a little troll who isn't even an adult yet. Shut up.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:44 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "Human knowledge, apart from God, is flawed."

      Well since there are many versions of just your god your statement is inherently false.

      Not to mention you are a human claiming knowledge, which by your definition is flawed and so you have sucessfully refuted yourself. Good job.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
  2. revbates

    Gay Christian is an oxymoron for most Christian sects ... there are about 38,000 of them. Why not just follow Jesus and forget the religion that contradicts his teaching? Jesus was for everybody. Let Christians have their Apostle Paul ... and follow Jesus.

    May 13, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • Bonnie

      There is no such thing as a gay Christian; they are deceiving themselves. Jesus made it very clear that he hates hypocrisy.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • Observer

      Bonnie,

      Christian churches are full of Christian adulterers who have divorced and remarried.

      Christian churches are full of Christians with tattoos.

      Skip the HYPOCRISY.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • Bonnie

      Observer, thank you for clarifying my point. The so-called "churches" have become a cesspool and fortress of hypocrisy.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:44 pm |
    • Millie

      Jesus was a hypocrite himself. He violated the commandments and then rewrote them. He was a heretic, hypocrite, and GAY.
      He didn't fulfill anything. He died for being a criminal. He didn't die for you. He had no control over his death. He was filth.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • lol??

      Observer, yer gubmint god, in charge of marriage, made it real easy for da wimen to say I ain't obeyin' nuthin'! Then they kill babies, too. Goes downhill from there. Don't blame the Creator.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
    • Observer

      lol??

      Please respond in English next time.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:55 pm |
  3. Gay Marriage Watch

    Same-se-x marriage in the U.S.

    Done deal: Connecticut, Delaware, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington & the District of Columbia.

    Who's next?
    Illinois: Gov. Pat Quinn called on the Illinois House to send him legislation to legalize gay marriage, saying lawmakers had plenty of time to make up their mind on the issue. The state Senate passed the measure on Valentine's Day, and the governor has said he's ready to sign it.

    New Jersey: Gov. Christie doesn't seem to be against gay marriage coming from a ballot measure, but has stated in the past he would veto such a change from legislators. This was his stance before the President changed his views. If Christie reconsiders, NJ could be sooner than expected.

    California: It seems gay marriage will be in CA soon one way or the other. This is because polls show a much larger support for gay marriage than when Prop 8 was passed. So even if the upcoming SCOTUS case were to fail, it would likely be put to voters there very soon again.

    Hawaii: Already has some good laws on the books evidently, and although things have been put on hold until after 2013, legislators there are attempting to speed up the process.

    ==========================
    Let's see around the globe:

    Done deal: Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Iceland, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Uruguay, & portions of Brazil.

    In the works:

    France: Has already passed same-se-x marriage bill in both houses; president intends to sign; right-wing party plans to challenge in the Consti tutional Council to try to force a delay on enactment.

    Germany: On 22 March 2013 the Bundesrat passed an initiative to open marriage to same-se-x couples, which now moves onto the Bundestag for approval.

    Ireland: On 14 April 2013 as part of the Consti tutional Convention a measure voted in favour of same-se-x marriage by a margin of 79 percent.

    UK: On 5 February 2013, the House of Commons debated the Marriage (Same Se-x Couples) Bill and approved it in a 400–175 vote at the second reading. (Third reading to be scheduled.)

    Finland: 03-19-2013: The citizens' initiative overrides the committee's decision, and thus the bill must now be considered by the Parliament.

    Brazil: In November 2012, the Court of Bahia legalized same-se-x marriage in the state of Bahia. In December 2012, the state of São Paulo legalized same-se-x marriage. More Brazilian states are considering measures.

    Luxembourg: On 6 February 2013, the Chamber's justice committee agreed to approve the measure opening marriage for same-se-x couples. On 20 February, the committee initially backed the right to simple adoption for same-se-x couples. On 6 March 2013, the committee confirmed that position.

    Australia: lower house MP will seek to have his Marriage Equality Amendment Bill brought for an immediate vote in the House on June 6.

    Mexico: rulings due this summer.

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCLF2ji0rZI&w=640&h=360]

    May 13, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
  4. Chad

    @Colin "Chad, have you sought to experience Azura Mazda.[long list of "gods" deleted].."

    =>no, as I have said a million times, I have a reason that I dont need to. Since the God of Israel IS real, then all the other gods are fake.

    Believers have a reason not to investigate the others.
    atheists can claim that that reason isnt real
    but
    atheists can not claim that the believers dont have a reason and athests do.

    What is your reason for rejecting Azura Mazda? It isnt the same as my reason for rejecting Azura Mazda.

    May 13, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • hal 9001

      Apparently "Chad" has found himself in "jello" again.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Since the God of Israel IS real, then all the other gods are fake."

      Great logic there, chard

      You are keeping jeebus waiting. You could be on your knees servicing him now

      May 13, 2013 at 4:27 pm |
    • Caleb

      That is very true Chad, "Truth by definition excludes.”-The Absolute claims of the Christian message.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:27 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      I dont worship Azura Mazda because I worship a giant cactus and since the giant cactus is real, then the christian god is obviously fake.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
    • Science

      LMAFO........Hal 9001..................maybe someday the green slime will come off ?

      Peace

      May 13, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • JMEF

      Chad
      No you are just too damn lazy, especially your thought process. Just wondering how often do you watch re-runs of the Flying Nun, isn't Sister Bertrille hot or doesn't Rachel let you watch?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Chad, all the fools that will eventually fry if they don't take those blinders off so they can believe, repent and follow Jesus' truth have the arrogance to mock the saved. They truly believe they are better than believers by being conned by antichrists that taught them in school. Who's zooming who? LOL.

      God Bless you Chad.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:38 pm |
    • mama k

      So let's see, HS, you last declared with me that gay marriage has not yet been won in the U.S. by popular vote. Are you still claiming that????

      May 13, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • Pwnd U

      I KNOW I am better than any Christian and better than their filthy god. MY morals and ethics MAKE SENSE and do not contradict each other.
      I do not need to fall all over myself trying to explain and justify a psychotic god who is supposed to be "self-evident".
      I do not need to wrestle with obscure ancient dialects explaining the best way to be stupid and insane.
      I do not need to feel guilty over things fairy-tale characters did or feel relieved when another fairy-tale character uses magic to wipe away my false guilt over nothing real.
      I do not need a book of contradictory and frankly psychotic ramblings to know how to be nice to other people.
      Bring your god before me. Oh, you can't?
      Have him talk to me. Oh, you can't?
      Ask him to tell you the truth. Oh, you are not allowed to doubt your fake god? What a surprise.
      Prove your prayers work. Oh, wait, you can't because they are fake.
      Show me your good works that could not be done by anyone. Oh, wait, you can't do that either.
      Gee, I guess I kicked your god's ass. It was soooo easy because your god is nothing. I have more power than your god.
      Even a watch battery has more power than your god. Your god is worthless.
      You religitards all need to be put in a mental ward.

      May 13, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
    • Science

      The se-x thingy and you know evolution...........wins hands down.

      Two Mutations Triggered an Evolutionary Leap 500 Million Years Ago

      June 24, 2013 — Evolution, it seems, sometimes jumps instead of crawls. A research team led by a University of Chicago scientist has discovered two key mutations that sparked a hormonal revolution 500 million years ago.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130624152617.htm

      Can chad/pope be good and say............. no fairy in the sky needed ?

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/22/pope-francis-atheists-can-be-good

      June 26, 2013 at 9:55 am |
  5. Timber72

    "The one who says 'I know him', but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

    It IS possible to stop willfully sinning. The "no one can ever stop sinning" line is a lie, fed to us by an adversary who wants nothing more than to destroy each and every one of us. There IS hope.

    May 13, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • ME II

      But doesn't the Bible say that it is impossible to not sin at all? Only God is perfect, or without sin, or something like that.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      "But doesn't the Bible say that it is impossible to not sin at all? Only God is perfect, or without sin, or something like that."

      the bible is a creation of men....does it really matter what it says? It also condones slavery, shall we listen that that too>?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • Observer

      Timber72,

      "Sinning" includes having tattoos, but it's a lot more fun for Christian hypocrites to pick on gays.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • Bonnie

      FOR MEII: Speaking of unity with Jesus, "Everyone remaining in union with Him does not practice sin; no one that practices sin has either seen him or come to know him." 1ST John 3:6 at back of the Bible. Mistakes happen and can be forgiven; premeditated, educated disobedience to God is NOT acceptable and will NOT be forgiven. "For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left." Hebrews 10:26.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:42 pm |
  6. RobK

    Sin is sin. It does not define the person. Evil thoughts or feelings are not necessarily sins, but acting on those thoughts is sin. Sin is forgiven if it is repented of. To accept sinful actions and trying to justify them is not right. Many people get angry with each other, but it is not acceptable to attack someone else. But if one does and then sincerely repents of that sin, it is forgiven. But one can not justify the assault by saying that is one's personality.

    May 13, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Sin does not exist; it is an element of ancient mythology. Invisible diseases (sin) in undetectable body parts (souls) are irrelevant.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
  7. Divdar

    Interesting. Of course gays can be Christians. Just like adulterers, liars, thieves and even myself.. I am far from perfect. However, I think he misses the point about evangelicals. The perception of Christians come from the media, where they are constantly portrayed in a negative light, or the whole is judged on the actions of a few. Christians generally work through one on one relationships. I think he would be hard pressed to mention someone he personally knows, someone he would call a friend, who responded not with curiosity and questions but with politics and preaching. I don't agree with my gay friends, just like I don't agree with my friends who visit strip clubs. They are still my friends.

    May 13, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
    • mama k

      Your friends who visit strip clubs can choose that activity or not. Are you another who has fallen behind in biology and psychology?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • Not a GOPer and nor do I play one on TV

      @Divdar,

      "The perception of Christians come from the media, where they are constantly portrayed in a negative light, or the whole is judged on the actions of a few."

      So?

      The perception of Christians comes from the way the Evangelical mouthpieces behave in the media. The media doesn't do it – it's the Evangelical Protestants do. By definition, yes those who get quoted in the press are few in number.

      Believers judge atheists on the behaviour of pot-stirrers like David Sliverman.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
  8. Dear Justin Lee,

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBRbUG-NoHg&w=640&h=360]

    May 13, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Fundies Gone Wild!

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0-04VDrCbM&w=640&h=360]

      May 13, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
  9. mama k

    I see from some of the comments and questions that some still don't have a basic education about homosexuality. Muslims lead the way as having the most uneducated, disenfranchising stance toward gays. But many Christians are not far behind. Just last week CNN reported some gays being arrested in Zambia which is a predominantly Christian nation.

    Christianity has always been conflicted on social issues, but this current hot topic really highlights the extremism within Christianity. One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over four million members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage. Thomas Jefferson hit the nail on the head over 200 years ago:

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    (from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

    Some claim that Christianity and science are not incompatible, yet we find many who continue to ignore current scientific knowledge on the issue of homosexuality. Is the problem poor education, steadfastness to one's own flavor of biblical interpretation, or both?

    Whatever your religion, whatever your belief, with gay marriage coming quickly to the U.S., now is the time to at least have a basic education about homosexuality.

    The following is long, but note the quote from Professor MIchael King below in the section on psychology.
    =======================================================
    Psychology

    The American Psychological Association states "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people", and says most people's sexual orientation is determined at an early age. Research into how sexual orientation in males may be determined by genetic or other prenatal factors plays a role in political and social debates about homosexuality, and also raises concerns about genetic profiling and prenatal testing."

    Professor Michael King states: "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."

    The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:

    "Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice."

    Biology

    The following is from the article:

    Homosexuality ultimately a result of gene regulation, researchers find (12/11/2012 – LiveScience)

    [ The search for a "gay gene" may be off-target, new research finds. Another process called epigenetics that switches genes on and off may explain why homosexuality runs in families.

    Epigenetics are heritable changes caused by factors other than DNA. Instead of traits getting passed down through the genes, epigenetic change happens because of the way genes are regulated, or turned on and off.

    These genetic regulators may be the reason homosexuality persists in nature despite the fact that gay people are less likely to reproduce, suggests the new study published in the journal The Quarterly Review of Biology.

    "These things have evolved because they're good for the parents, but they sometimes, not [with] high frequency, but sometimes carry over" into offspring, study researcher William Rice, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, told LiveScience. In a male fetus, Rice and his colleagues write, an epigenetic change that benefited the mother may lead to "feminization" of sexual preference — homo- or bisexuality. The same may be true for epigenetic changes passed down by dad to a female fetus. (The terms feminization and masculinization of sexual preference refer to sexual orientation only — not to physical or personality traits of the offspring.)

    The findings add to past research suggesting gay men haven't died out, because female relatives of gay men tend to have more children on average than other females. The study researchers specifically found that two genes passed on through the maternal line could produce this effect.

    Hormones, epigenetics and orientation

    Rice and his colleagues focused on epi-marks, which are molecular changes that act like temporary "switches" to turn genes on and off. If a gene is a blueprint, the epi-mark is the construction foreman who makes sure the product gets built. An epi-mark also determines when, where and how much a gene is expressed, according to the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis.

    These molecular switches are usually erased very early in the developmental process, but they can be passed down from generation to generation, too, Rice said.

    Some epi-marks are particularly important during fetal development, when they promote normal physical development in the sexes despite natural variations in testosterone during pregnancy. Researchers know that fetal exposure to too much testosterone can masculinize the genitals, brain or behavior of a genetically female fetus. Likewise, too little testosterone can make a genetically male fetus more feminized.

    But here's the catch: There's lots of overlap between the levels of testosterone male and female fetuses get exposed to. That means there must be another side to the story, Rice and his colleagues wrote.

    That side appears to be epigenetics, Rice said.

    "Early in development, we think these epi-marks are laid down so that girl fetuses will be relatively insensitive to testosterone and male fetuses will be relatively sensitive to testosterone," Rice said.

    Biological behavior

    Thus, if an epi-mark that kept a mother from getting exposed to high testosterone in development gets passed on to her son — the opposite sex — it could desensitize him to testosterone, contributing to his sexual preference for men. Similarly, if a male-specific epi-mark from dad gets passed to a daughter, it could "masculinize" her sexual preference, making her more interested in women.

    These findings could explain why twin studies show that homosexuality runs in families, but no "gay gene" can be found, Rice said. In identical twins, there's about a 20 percent chance that if one twin is gay, the other will be too. If genetic change were responsible for homosexuality, you'd expect a much higher match, Rice said. Epigenetics, however, can explain the heritability without the need for a specific genetic change.

    The hypothesis could be tested by examining epigenetic marks in parents of kids with gay versus straight offspring, Rice said. There are, of course, concerns that this knowledge could be used by parents who want to avoid gay offspring, Rice said, but that concern already exists around certain hormonal conditions in utero, which are known to contribute to an increased chance of offspring being lesbians.

    "That cat's already out of the bag," Rice said. He added that an understanding of the biological underpinnings of homosexuality could help emphasize that same-sex behavior is not "unnatural."

    "In fact, it's a major part of the natural world," Rice said. Fourteen percent of Western gulls raise chicks in female-female pairs, he pointed out. And 8 percent of male sheep show zero interest in fertile ewes, but get sexually excited by other rams. ]
    =========================================================

    May 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • Billy

      That story is so gay!

      May 13, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • lol??

      Is Science your son, mamama K??

      May 13, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • mama k

      There's some good info in there, Billy, and I'm not even charging a fee today.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Environmentalist oppose chemically treated food but no one thinks twice about chemically treating our reproductive biology. Oh wait, Catholics do. We oppose it. It's inorganic.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • mama k

      What does that have to do with epigenetics, Bill?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:22 pm |
    • JMEF

      BD Damn good idea Bill if your not going to use them or are supposed to use them, why not chemically castrate all the church hierarchy from priest to pope? Don't know about deacons but it seem that yours were nothing but trouble and made you the wretch you are. Would save a lot in payoffs and damages, the RCC is always into protecting cash flow.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
    • Science

      Hey Bill ............How about this .............you and the red devil did iT NO ?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:26 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Humans are born infants. It's nurturing that shapes you. YOU weren't born gay, but you have a lot of help today insisting you make the grade. Mmmh, who wants to ensure you fry? Antichrists that deny Jesus Christ. Mmmh, what did HS?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:43 pm |
    • mama k

      Having trouble latching into reality and current knowledge, HS? And, like yesterday, are you still claiming that gay marriage has not yet been won in a state by popular vote yet? Get your head out of the clouds, HS.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I'm all for science mama. Describe for me how introducing chemicals into our food supply is toxic but introducing them into our gene pool is not please.

      May 13, 2013 at 5:06 pm |
  10. A pilgrim on the journey

    If the definition of a "god" is Omnipotent, Omnicient, and Omnipresent, wouldn't one have to be all those things to say "there is no god"? Wouldn't being less than Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent and saying "there is no god" be like being a flea on a dogs butt and saying "there is no dog"?

    May 13, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • ME II

      Only if God is a dog.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      There is a Chinese creation myth that says the ancestors of mankind were the fleas and lice on the body of the God Pan Gu. Are you sure that Christians aren't the fleas denying the True God, Pan Gu?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • sam stone

      the same thing would apply to say that there is a god

      May 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Well, when you provide any evidence of a god, that will be a convincing argument. Until then I won't believe.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • snowboarder

      @pilgrim, negative. man has invented innumerable deities, religions and doctrines over the course of history and nearly all things once attributed to supernatural cause have been determined to be of natural origins. the realm of gods has been reduced to nothing more than the ever shrinking unknown and the unknowable.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • A pilgrim on the journey

      But wouldn't the flea who said "there is a dog" be right?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • Pole dancing for Jesus

      Only if god is a dog with fleas.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Answers that explain everything.....explain nothing.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • ME II

      @A pilgrim on the journey,
      "But wouldn't the flea who said "there is a dog" be right?"

      Not sure about being right, but a talking flea sure would be a miracle.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
  11. Shannon Roberts

    Yeah..... all of that love your neighbor as your self, give to the poor and widows, forgive those who harm you, dont kill, steal, lie, cheat.... that's all dangerous stuff. sarcasm.

    May 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • Billy

      love one day, hate the next – as they say – you can take any side of any issue and argue it from the Bible

      May 13, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • lol??

      The socie way of doin' it more than bankrupted everybody. The servants turned the masters into debt slaves.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • Here’s some more love from your bible

      And Moses said unto them “Have ye saved all the women alive?... Now therefore Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known a man by lying with him, but all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves” Num 31:1-2, 9-11, 14-18

      May 13, 2013 at 7:56 pm |
  12. Jesus was a space alien

    Who knows. Maybe Jesus was gay or a cross dresser. He had long hair and long flowing robes. Just accept who you are and stop trying to figure out if the sky fairy approves of you dating other men. You would have the same success banging your head against the wall, however, it might provide you with some relief.

    May 13, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • ed

      He was into feet.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • james

      where do people get the idea that Jesus had long hair? he lived by the law that said long hair on a man is a dishonor but if a woman does it is a glory. 1 Cor. 11:14,15

      May 13, 2013 at 4:27 pm |
  13. Science

    Update:

    The god damn sign in picture above is wrong !

    That red devil with the funky horns...........and his partner the fairy in the sky.........did NOT create US !

    The ORIGIN story is bullsh-it...............so is the bible............... nasty !

    From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

    http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

    Scientists have unearthed the first direct signs of cheesemaking, at a site in Poland that dates back 7,500 years.

    Human Evolution

    http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2cHumanevo.shtml

    AND

    Easy to do !

    For all creationists and ID believers...............IT only takes minutes to figure IT out. No fairy in the sky needed !

    New Device Can Extract Human DNA With Full Genetic Data in Minutes

    May 6, 2013 — Take a swab of saliva from your mouth and within minutes your DNA could be ready for analysis and genome sequencing with the help of a new device.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130506132100.htm

    Foot note............ethics + morals = really tough on religion !

    Facts work best for teaching children !

    Evolution wins hands down ..........time for god(s) to get the HELL out of the way................so humanity can evolve !

    Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418104324.htm

    Peace

    Oops do not forget about the chondrites !

    Was the bible around back then ?

    Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

    Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

    No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US

    Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.

    May 13, 2013 at 8:52 am | Report abuse | Reply

    Science

    And

    Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

    The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

    The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

    Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

    April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |

    May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |

    May 6, 2013 at 10:03 pm | Report abuse |

    May 13, 2013 at 9:21 am | Report abuse |

    Science

    Foot note............ethics + morals = really tough on religion !

    May 13, 2013 at 9:24 am | Report abuse |

    Science

    Where are the ethics and morals....................with a talking snake in the grass is the question ?

    May 13, 2013 at 9:32 am | Report abuse |

    lol??

    What country do YOU live in??

    May 13, 2013 at 10:44 am | Report abuse |

    Science

    The sea..................better to see by !!!

    May 13, 2013 at 10:48 am | Report abuse |

    Science

    By the way lol??............that funny phrase........really does not work............you know...........may god hellp us.......

    no it won't...................but cod is good to eat !

    May 13, 2013 at 12:00 pm | Report abuse |

    https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/comment-page-106/#comments

    May 13, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • Simple Wisdom

      Do you bash fairy tales on Disney's website too? If you truly believe this is a fairy tale, you are so angry about this...why so threatened? Fact is, you have no idea, NO proof that God does not exist.

      Science: 7 Characteristics of Life (BIO101): #1 Life is Organized – just that point alone, how does an organized scientific perspective on life result from chance and chaos? Can you explain that? Everything about science is finite and calculated. And all that was born from chance???

      Dude, it takes more FAITH for me to believe that the organized life I see around me came from some primordial soup than it does to believe an "Organizer" engineered this organized universe. Think about it...talk about fairy tales and bad science! I believe in evolution and natural selection. And both support an intelligent design that adapts to change. Your beliefs are akin to stumbling upon a 2013 Dodge Challenger in the forest and assuming that somehow it just evolved. Duh, obviously someone designed it and put it together. But the world is different, right? Ignorance...just cause you can't see 'Him' doesn't mean 'He' doesn't exist. #headsburiedinthesand

      May 13, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • Science

      HEY SW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or is that BW. ?

      Free speech helps educate the masses................POLITICIANS too !

      Where do morals come from?

      By Kelly Murray, CNN

      https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments

      Gravity is not up for debate !

      BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !

      Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet..............................E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas.

      Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130425142250.htm

      Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

      The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

      The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

      Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm
      April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |

      May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |

      Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418104324.htm

      And NO ANGELS the pope KICKED them OFF the TEAM last year !

      From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

      http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

      the wrong path is Adam and Eve !

      Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

      Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

      No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US

      Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.

      No god(s) needed................... Old. DNA works..................also catches crooks !

      Ancient DNA Reveals Europe's Dynamic Genetic History

      Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423134037.htm

      Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute

      http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/.../page4

      Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...

      Good stuff !

      The fact...............the earth is to old for this nonsemse ! Time to EVOLVE !

      Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

      Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

      For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !

      Where do morals come from?

      By Kelly Murray, CNN

      https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/

      Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.

      Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’

      Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
      bears his name as the “God particle.”

      http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/08/atheist-prof-peter-higgs-stop-calling-higgs-bosen-the-god-particle/

      Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
      Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \

      https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/28/pope-praises-science-but-insists-god-created-world/

      Science

      Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
      By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...

      https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/heaven-is-a-fairy-story-scientist-stephen-hawking-says/

      April 7th, 2012

      08:32 PM ET

      The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth

      https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/the-jesus-debate-man-vs-myth/comment-page-137/#comment-2281915

      Make sure to read comments

      April 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |

      Breaking News

      NASA: Three planets found are some of best candidates so far for habitable worlds outside our solar system.

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/planet-discovery/index.html

      NASA: Mars could have supported life

      Star Dust we are

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWdU_px9ApE&w=640&h=360]

      Peace

      Holy Hallucinations 35

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XTCRdC8Dlo&w=640&h=360]

      BBC. Planet of the Apemen. Battle for Earth 1. Ho-mo Erectus

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUliLKSJ4bQ&w=640&h=360]

      BACKFILL on E =mc2.....

      Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'

      By Jessica Ravitz, CNN

      Decades before atheist scientist and author Richard Dawkins called God a "delusion," one world-renowned physicist – Albert Einstein – was weighing in on faith matters with his own strong words.

      “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

      https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/category/culture-science/

      May 4, 2013 at 6:47 am | Report abuse |

      May 13, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • Science

      Oops............GW

      May 13, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • jake1969

      Simple wisdom, great points that I always make too. Nothing in science precludes orchestration. Science determines the building blocks to the deepest level, it never explains how they all got together the way they did and evolved to amazing levels. I'm somewhat agnostic, but have always found the notion of all our existence simply being an evolution from single cells to what we are today - with no orchestration! I do believe in evolution, I just tend to believe something was behind it. Atheists are a lot like religious fundamentalists. They both know the answer and they both like to force it down your throat! Reality is, none of us know the answers...and I'm comfortable with that.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
  14. John Abbott

    I can and do agree that people who are gay are also people! No argument there. I do struggle with the idea that anyone involved in habitual and unrepentant sin can legitimately call themselves a Christian. My major disagreement comes from those who do not accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God. To me they simply want to twist God's Word to suit their personal desires.

    May 13, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • snowboarder

      i suppose if you believe in the while "sin" thing, everyone is involved in continual and habitual sin. how would h0m 0s3 xuality be any different.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Twice in one day I've been intrigued by comments on this blog. John, how long did you debate with yourself over whether gay people are actually people?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • Topher

      Agreed.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • lol??

      Relax and don't struggle.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • snowboarder

      @john, there is no legitimate reason to believe that the bible is anything more than a collection of myths and fables.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • Joe

      "To me they simply want to twist God's Word to suit their personal desires."

      That's why even you probably ignore some of these abominations. Cheating (Mic. 6:10) ; A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17) ; A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22) ; Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17) ; A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18) ; A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19) ; A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19) ; A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1) ; The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5) ; Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15) ; Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15) ; Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9) ; Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5) Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4) ; Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16) ; Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15) ; Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17) ; Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)

      May 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • Madtown

      My major disagreement comes from those who do not accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God
      -----
      Why would you have disagreement with people who learn facts, and apply logic? "Infallible Word of God"?!? It was ALL written by men! Every word, written by the hand of man. Humans also edited the word, transcribed the word, translated the word, chose the individual works to comprise the greater work of the bible, left out other equally relevant works because they didn't send the exact message the humans wanted, and continue to edit the work in the form of new versions. The "word of God"? Not in any conceivable sense. I'd even think God would be disappointed to have this work credited to him. I think that would be taking God's name "in vain", suggesting he did something that he actually did not.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • sam stone

      "To me they simply want to twist God's Word to suit their personal desires."

      Like that is not done all the time

      May 13, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • ME II

      @John Abbott,
      "I can and do agree that people who are gay are also people! No argument there."

      Gee, how kind of you. /sarcasm

      May 13, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • lol??

      C'mon snow, you just corrupted the term legitimate. Not nice.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Right. The Bible is infallible.
      Except the bit about bats being birds. And mustard seeds being the smallest of all seeds. And the bit about there being winged, four legged insects. And unicorns. And half man, half goat beasts. And vocalizing incendiary foliage. And the rocks that scream if people can't praise Jesus. And the 7 headed dragon. And the locust that wears armor and a tiny little crown and has the face of a man, the hair of a woman, the mouth of a lion and the tail of a scorpion. And the parts about the Earth being flat. And held up on pillars. And that plants existed before the Sun. And the Earth existing before the sun.
      In fact, pretty much everything in Genesis and Revelation.
      And most of the parts in between.

      But other than that, absolutely infallible.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • snowboarder

      @lol, not even slightly. a belief in the bible as the infallible word of any god is irrational.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
    • lol??

      Snow, to change the subject, I bought a pair of boarder gloves for riding the cycle when it gets real cold.

      SR6 schoeller Keprotec

      Whatd'ya think?? Will they work out??

      May 13, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • Sue

      Amen, well said, John!

      May 13, 2013 at 4:23 pm |
    • sam stone

      "My major disagreement comes from those who do not accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God. To me they simply want to twist God's Word to suit their personal desires."

      Or, we see it as edited, translated iron age hearsay

      Even some people who do see it as the infallible word of god want to twist it to futher their desires

      May 13, 2013 at 4:47 pm |
  15. Simple Wisdom

    This whole topic is simple to understand for ALL Christians. Read your Bible. God made woman to be Adam's mate. God did not make man to be man's mate. He instructed them to "be fruitful and increase in number". How can a gay couple accomplish this? Read Genesis 1-3. God's intentions for man and woman are simple to understand.

    May 13, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • lol??

      SCOTUS likes to throw stones, errr bones, to the dawgs.

      May 13, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      So people who cant have children shouldnt marry either, correct?

      May 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • Madtown

      God's intentions for man and woman are simple to understand
      -----
      Simple to understand, but only for the simple-minded. You just need to read a book that man wrote, about a sub-set of his ideas of how he thinks God operates. Simple.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      God made males out of dust and clay.
      Then Adam got lonely so God took one of Adam's ribs and made a woman.
      Makes perfect sense.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • Simple Wisdom

      Another simple BIO101 concept. Natural selection favors those species that can reproduce the quickest no two species can occupy the same ecological niche at the same time. When 2 species of paramecium are placed in the same controlled environment, one species will eventually die off completely. The stronger species, whichever one can reproduce most efficiently, will continue.

      Even from a scientific standpoint, it appears natural selection has 'selected' gay genetic traits as a means to end certain genetic lines. The stronger genomes will reproduce, mutate, and evolve – adapt and continue. You don't even need the Bible to understand this. Believer or not, science backs this up. For believers, specifically, this should be an indicator of God's intentions – science supporting Genesis.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • God

      Hetro couples who are married and do not have children are living in SIN!!!!! Worse than gay couples, because they could make rug rats, and choose not to. Talk about thumbing your nose at God!!!!

      May 13, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
  16. Atheist Hunter

    The apostle Paul says that hom ose xuality, both the inward desire and the outward practice, is "Vile affections" (Romans 1:26-28). He said of the ancient people:

    Even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient (Romans 1:26-28).

    He is even more emphatic in writing to the Corinthians: Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or hom ose xual perverts or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves- none of these will posses [inherit] God's Kingdom (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

    However, lest someone reading these words should become discouraged, let us hasten to quote what else Paul says immediately. Hom ose xuals can be changed and converted. The next verse says: Some of you were like that. But you have been purified from sin; you have been dedicated to God; you have been put right with God by the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God (verse 11).

    Again, did God change??? Don't think so!

    May 13, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      Please address the mixed fabrics law. Did he change? Apparently. Or he doesnt exist. SInce you cant reply to it, ill just asume he isnt real.

      May 13, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • .

      John
      Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

      Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

      There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

      Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. Homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

      1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

      Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

      Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

      That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
  17. Topher

    Gosnell found guilty! Woo-hoo!

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/13/justice/pennsylvania-abortion-doctor-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    May 13, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
    • JMEF

      Topher
      So was jesus and was crucified, get over yourself and by the way jesus loved his disciples one at a time or in groups who knows.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
    • ME II

      @Topher,
      I haven't followed this case, but if the linked article is accurate, I would agree with you on this one. This guy and his organization needed to be stopped.

      Hopefully, easier access to such care by qualified people and organizations would alleviate the need for women to resort to such options.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
  18. Atheist Hunter

    The Sodom and Gomorrah story clearly presents hom ose xuality as a sin and a crime punished with divine judgment (Genesis 19:4-11). Ever since, the words "Sodom and Gomorrah" are words of horror and revulsion. Wicked as our modern world is, there is no city or village anywhere in the world that has taken those names!

    Wouldn't God owe them an apology if the same lifestyles are "Christian" for us?

    May 13, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • mama k

      oh, lovely story. Especially the part where Lot's daughters seduced their father with wine. Boy it's a good thing God spared them after destroying S&G. We all ought to just go back to living in a cave – it's would be the best for all of us.

      May 13, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • ReligionIsBS

      Shouldnt god owe us all an apology for telling us to not wear mixed fabrics? And you know....for dorwining the entire world except 2 of everything cuz he threw a temper tantrum? Again, your fake god is a lunatic.

      May 13, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • ShawnDH

      So you're one of the clowns who ACTUALLY believes ancient Middle Eastern fairy tales are real. The Bible was written by people who didn't understand natural disasters the wy we do today.

      How does it feel to be trapped in a 2,000 year old mindset? Do you embrace all the nonsense in the Bible, or just the things that support your ignorant hatred of gay people? If you have ever eaten shellfish, you are going straight to hell. It's an abomination. Says so in the Bible.

      May 13, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
    • .

      Elaine
      .
      In Genesis 18, the story about the angels coming to Lot's house, we learn that the reason they were coming to destroy Sodom was because of the wickedness that ALREADY existed in the city. The exact form of wickedness is not mentioned in that story!

      Let's just reinforce this CRITICAL piece of information. In the story of Sodom, in Genesis 18, God had ALREADY decided to destroy the city BEFORE the attempted rape of the angels – which incidentally was perpetrated mainly by heterosexuals since ALL the men of the city were involved, and we know that throughout history, gays have only represented about 10% of the population. Also, if they were homosexuals, why would Lot suggest that they take his daughters instead? That just doesn't make sense if the men were gay.

      So just to get this straight, the event that took place at Sodom was an act of violence and rape, mainly by heterosexuals. It had nothing to do with a loving relationship between two people of the same sex, and homosexuality was NOT the sin of Sodom in whatever form. The story of Sodom in Genesis 18 was about violence and domination, the same type of event that takes place in prisons and occupied countries, but it was NOT the reason for God's decision to destroy the city, and to use this story as a basis for prejudice against homosexuality in general is like comparing rape to marriage. There is NO similarity!

      The aftermath of Sodom aside, let's take a look at other passages of Scripture that mention the sin of Sodom. Here are 14 references to Sodom and not one of them mentions homosexuality!!!!! The overwhelming themes are idolatry, immorality and inhospitality! To me, this indicates people like Bob and HeavenSent have taken things out of context!

      Deuteronomy 29:17-26 – the sin – idolatry and images to false gods – "Why has the Lord done this to the land? . . . It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord . . ."

      Deuteronomy 32:32-38 – the sin – idolatry – "He will say 'Now where are their gods?'"

      Isaiah 1:2-23 – the sin – idolatry, rebellion, injustice, murder, greed, theft, covetousness, mistreating the poor – "They have rebelled against Me."

      Isaiah 3:8-19 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance – "Their words and deeds are against the Lord, defying His glorious Presence"

      Jeremiah 23:10-14 – the sin – idolatry, adultery, lying by priests and prophets – "Both prophet and priest are godless. . . . They prophesied by Baal and led My people astray."

      Jeremiah 49:16-18 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance, oppression, pride of the heart – "The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived
      you. . ."

      Jeremiah 50:2-40 – the sin – idolatry, pride, false prophets – "Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror. . . . . For she has defied the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. . . . . Their shepherds have led them astray."

      Lamentations 4:3-6 – the sin – cruelty and failure to care for the young and poor – "My people have become heartless."

      Ezekiel 16:49-50 – the sin – "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned: they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

      Amos 4:1-11 – the sin – idolatry, oppression, mistreating the poor – "I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom . . . . yet you have not returned to Me."

      Zephaniah 2:8-11 – the sin – idolatry, pride, mocking – "This is what they will get in return for their pride, for insulting and mocking the people of the Lord Almighty. The Lord will be awesome to them when He destroys all the gods of the land."

      Luke 17:26-29 – Jesus speaking – No specific sins mentioned

      II Peter 2:1-22 – the sin – idolatry, living after ungodliness, lawlessness, arrogance, blaspheming, adultery, greed, corruption, depravity, boasting, lust – "But there were also false prophets among the people . . . . ."

      Jude 1:7-8 – the sin – sexual immorality and perversion, i.e fornication after strange flesh (angels, see Genesis 6:1) KJV

      The dictionary defines "perversion" as "a sexual practice regarded as abnormal". That means that a heterosexual practicing homosexual acts is perverted as in the case of ALL the men of Sodom wanting to engage with the angels (strange flesh). However, since sex with the same gender is normal for a gay person, there is no perversion associated merely by the sexual act.

      Note also that, while the word "abomination" has been used with reference to homosexuality, the biblical interpretation of the word "abomination" relates to any act of uncleanness as set out in the Holiness Code, such as eating shellfish, trimming your hair, touching the skin of a dead pig (should we stone the entire NFL?), wearing clothes of two kinds of material (polyester/cotton) – the list is long. How can we discuss one sin to the exclusion of all others?

      This is an enormous subject, which has been reduced to simplistic values. It is plain and simple prejudice to portray homosexuals as immoral just because of the gender to whom we are attracted. Of course there are immoral homosexuals, just as there are immoral heterosexuals, but simple orientation carries no implication of morality or immorality.

      Our sexuality is God-given. God made us the way we are. It follows naturally that He loves us exactly the way He made us. So long as we embrace marriage with the same standards as any monogamous, loving heterosexual relationship there should be no barrier against us.

      When gays are only asking to have their loving relationships acknowledged and respected, why is there so much fear and anger? To strengthen marriage, why not take a stand against divorce and separation, instead of opposing love and commitment? Jesus spoke of divorce, but he never mentioned homosexuality. I believe that was because homosexuality was not even an issue in His day. Love was love. Love IS Love!

      "Protect marriage? Puhlease. With a 50 percent divorce rate, rampant domestic violence, Las Vegas drive-through chapels, and I wanna-marry-a-really-rich-guy reality TV shows, there's no way gays could trash marriage the way straight people have."

      This letter only refers to the sin of Sodom. There are actually six "clobber verses" which are used against gays. Space does not permit an explanation of each one, but just as the sin of Sodom has been misrepresented, so have the other verses. There is an explanation for each one that clearly indicates that, just as slavery was condoned by Scripture for many years, ("Slaves obey your masters . . . . ." Eph. 6:5-8) and civil wars were fought to protect the ownership of people, we now know that Scripture was interpreted incorrectly, for God would not have people to be possessions.

      We now have a fuller understanding of Scripture with regard to slavery. It's time to accept a fuller understanding of homosexuality based on new research into language, concepts and customs when these words were written.

      So please choose acceptance and inclusiveness whether or not you understand fully. One of us is wrong. Many of you think it's me. I think it's you, based on solid research into Scripture from another perspective. Yes, God encourages us to question Scripture.
      "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, REPROOF and instruction in righteousness." II Tim. 3:16
      If there is even a chance that I could be right, do you want to take the eternal risk of rejecting some of God's children, and slamming the doors of your churches to those of us who wish to enter? That's what you're doing when you treat us as less than yourselves simply based on our orientation.

      If we have done the research, and it is our understanding that God loves us, including our orientation, then why not just let God be the judge? He will be in the end anyway. If one of us is to err, why not err on the side of love and acceptance? Now that was truly Jesus' example!

      May 13, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Or maybe, as God Himself said in Ezekiel 16:49, their crime was that of being inhospitable jerks.
      "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it."

      May 13, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • M.E.

      What you call "Sodom and Gomorrah" I call "a fun saturday night."

      May 13, 2013 at 4:37 pm |
  19. ShawnDH

    Well Jesus was a single 33 year old man (hmmmm, not even a girlfriend...). Think about it.

    May 13, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Plus, Jesus had 2 Dads.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • lol??

      Not a problem for Christians, Doc. They have two dads too.

      May 13, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
  20. snowboarder

    the definition of christian covers such a broad group of beliefs as to be nearly useless.

    May 13, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.