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May 11th, 2013
10:00 PM ET
My Take: ‘Gay Christian’ is not an oxymoron
By Justin Lee, Special to CNN (CNN)–In high school, I was a Christian know-it-all. My nickname was "God boy," and I was known for regularly preaching at my friends about social issues of the day. I dismissed their objections - and accusations of homophobia - as intolerance for my faith. "I'm just telling you what God's Word says," I'd argue. Years later I realized my mistake. What my peers most objected to wasn't my beliefs - it was my condescending attitude. I debated and preached when I should have listened. I thought that stating my position loudly and unyieldingly was a sign of strength. In the process, I alienated my friends. I'm still an evangelical Christian, but one thing is now crystal clear to me. American evangelicals' bad reputation isn't just because of what we believe. It's mostly because of how we behave. When ESPN commentator Chris Broussard was criticized for saying that openly gay NBA player Jason Collins was “openly rebelling against God,” some evangelicals argued that conservative theological views are no longer tolerated in America. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter But they're missing the point. Broussard's language didn't just express a religious view about sexual morality; it referred to gay people in ways that were dehumanizing, reducing all gay people's lives to a single sex act. Other outspoken Christians routinely say even worse things, comparing gay people to pedophiles, for example. No one is immune from criticism in a free country with diverse beliefs. But if Christians feel particularly singled out at times, I'd argue that our perceived lack of empathy for others is largely to blame. I can often test a Christian's level of empathy by offering a single admission: When I was 18, I realized that I'm gay. Empathetic Christians are typically intrigued by such a statement, even if they also question how a conservative Southern Baptist could also be openly gay. They want to know about my struggles, how my family and church responded, and whether I ever feel my faith and sexuality are at odds with one another. I love these questions, because they show that the other person genuinely sees me as a human being. But far too often, Christians respond not with curiosity and questions but with politics and preaching. They quote Bible passages at me, make assumptions about my faith, or tell me why they’re opposed to same-sex marriage. I'm no longer a person to them; I'm a symbol of a culture war. A battlefield. And when I don't want to be treated that way, they assume I'm turning away because I didn't really want to hear the truth. This kind of behavior is why so many of my LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) friends want nothing to do with the church. But it's not only them. In my book, "Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate," I share the story of Cindy, a conservative evangelical mom whose life was thrown into turmoil when her son told her he was gay. This wasn't a political question for Cindy; it was a personal one. But the dehumanizing rhetoric about gay people she heard from the pulpit made her afraid to talk to anyone at church about her son's sexuality. Christians are not a monolithic group. I know many empathetic Christians, including many who speak up regularly for their LGBT brothers and sisters. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories The loudest megaphones do not speak for the rest of us, but they are still loud, and legion. To them I say: Gay people are not an issue. We're people. Some of us are Christians, too. And if it disturbs you that I refer to myself as both gay and Christian, I invite you to take the time to get to know me, and read what I write. You don't have to agree, and you might think I’m a sinner, but at least you’ll see me as a human being. Baptist minister and author Tony Campolo quips that Jesus entreated Christians not to "love the sinner and hate the sin," but to "love the sinner and hate your own sin." Jesus saved his harshest words for the self-righteously devout and chose the outcasts and sinners as his closest friends. Perhaps a lesson in Jesus-style humility might do us all some good. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Justin Lee. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor’s note: Justin Lee is the Executive Director of the Gay Christian Network and author of
GAY CHRISTIAN IS NOT AN OXYMORON, BUT INTELLIGENT CHRISITAN CERTAINLY IS.
Hey Science, better keep up. They're blaming YOU for the gay pop.
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Scooby – Doo On Zombie Island: "The Ghost Is Here"
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Keep up Science. Yer turn in the barrel. Gays are yer fault.
Quite simply, Christianity continues to splinter, become more extreme and is still conflicted over sexuality and sin.
Biology and psychology has become less conflicted that homosexuality is not a "life style".
Many Christians are starting to look more and more ignorant as they ignore facts. There is no nicer way to put this.
( have become )
Go back to England, ya Tory.
First, the recent pamphlet published by the APA was created by the APA Committee on LGBT Concerns. Part of their mission is to “Make recommendations regarding the integration of these issues into the APA's activities to further the cause of civil and legal rights of LGBT psychologists within the profession”. On subgroup of this committee, The APAGS Committee on LGBT Concerns (APAGS-CLGBTC), “works on behalf of the community of LGBT graduate students in psychology and their allies nationwide”. This is clearly biased. In addition, their opinion is based on “only a few studies have been conducted in the last 10 years” and “none of the recent research (1999-2007) meets methodological standards that permit conclusions regarding efficacy.” The APA should be embarrassed to publish an opinion that has no research to support it and blatantly biased.
Second, there are plenty of known cases and research to support that it is a choice. There are plenty of gay and ex-gay people who will attest to this.
The lack of debate and the suppression of alternate ideas are not furthering the scientific progress.
Get ye to the nearest theocracy, lol?? Can't find one – try Zambia – they've been acting like the next best thing.
The day you lie on your death bed is the day that you will look to God. My grandfather did not believe. The day he died my father told me he said Oh God and raised his hands. Everyone of us will face this sooner or later.
brian: please get off your knees
Brian37, you might want to look up Pascal's Wager. I'd bet now that you don't understand it.
Brian, I'd be glad to help you die so you can see what you are talking about, since it is obvious you are a clueless idiot.
That's called fear. People want to believe in god because they cannot accept their own mortality. It's much easier to believe that you will go to heaven and all will be well, than to understand the truth..... you will be gone, forever... no heaven, no nothing.
It's hard to accept, but reality often is.
I say "jesus christ" when I stub my toe – doesn't mean I believe he was the son of god... It's a cultural affectation...
How many dufus humanoids actually believe that gubmints are in charge of marriage?? A man's home is not his castle??
Those who are dead to God have no conscience, for God works through our consciences to keep us on the right path. Therefore, those who are spiritually dead will see no problem with whatever they do. They will see bad as good and good as bad, just like God told us they would. Problem is, this death is spreading fast across the society of this wicked world. Those of us who obey God are accused of being haters. The only thing we hate is outrageous disobedience to our God and Creator who has a right to make and enforce His rules.
how did you find out about the "rules"?
It's 2013...the 21st century..wish you were here...
Bonnie: Try not to be a delusional, snivelling sycophant
The key is your god, billions of people couldn't give a good god damn what your belief is, so pray tell why anyone other than the jesus freaks should give a sh1t?
Bonnie,
God's rules on marriage:
It can be FORCED on slaves.
It can be FORCED on r@pe victims.
It can be FORCED on men whose married brothers died.
Have you read a Bible?
Your religion is based on the presumption that you will act immorally. Your religion is also based on the presumption that you will be forgiven for acting immorally. There is absolutely no moral accountability in your "faith".
Religion, christianity in particular, is the absolutely greatest excuse for poor moral behavior ever created by man.
Christianity cornered the market on immorality, and it's basic doctrine requires that it forgive that behavior.
just like God told us they would
----
How is it that God told you anything? How did you hear it, where did you read it?
Correction Derp, forgiveness, then sin no more.
I attended a Science of Mind church for 10 years. A significant percentage of the congregation was gay. They were openly accepted there and we all worshipped together. The focus was spiritual growth not judging others. Anyone who feels rejected by mainstream religion will find themselves welcome in Science of Mind and Unity. You can't become enlightened while harboring hate.
Were they dying while growing??
Dr M, it's following Jesus' truth and applying what He teaches to your life is the start of learning His wisdom to live a righteous life. The more you follow Him, the more you live a righteous life leaving sin(s) behind.
The issue is whether ho.mo$exuality is a sin or not. Accordong to God it is a sin. According to the majority of Americans it is not. God says it, that settles it, and I believe it.
how did you find out from God?
"God" said nothing......it came from a book...written by human beings......
According to Iron Age man it is, and then attributed it to god
BooCat, God said plenty when He destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah while exterminating the Sodomites. Check your history books.
Bonnie,
Sodom was destroyed because of GREED.
Read a Bible someday.
history books? tell us which history books you used to determine this
The Bible, for one, is a book of history, and this one tells the truth exactly as it happened. You can do the research yourself, beginning at Genesis chapter 19, verses 4-28. See also Matthew 10:15 where Jesus speaks about it.
"The Bible, for one, is a book of history"
Wrong. The Bible is primarily a book of religion, a guide to faith. it was not a book of history, poetry, economics, or science. It contains all sorts of literary genre, which are used to teach about the relationship between God and mankind. Even biblical history is edited history: events were chosen to illustrate the central theme of the Bible. The Biblical writers did not pretend they were giving a complete history; instead they constantly refer us to other sources for full historical details, sources such as "The Annals of the Kings of Judah" (or Israel).
It is therefore not possible to try to "prove" the Bible by means of checking its historical or scientific accuracy. The only "proof" to which it can be subjected is this: Does it correctly portray the God-human relationship? In the best analysis, the Bible is a religious book, not an historical document.
Observer, you must have skipped over Genesis 13:13 to name just one. That's what you get for listening to others in the same sinful condition preaching traditions of men, than Jesus' truth.
Smithsonian, history means His Story.
Smithsonian, cats mean dinner. God designed the world for us to consume.
Amen
Smithsonian, god designed the world for us to eat. I mean if he hadn't, then why the f did he make so many cats? Cats cats cats. Cats.
Amen
"Smithsonian, history means His Story."
No it doesn't mean that at all but at least you just showed your stupidity. The largest research complex in the world have proven it's not an historical document so there is no way it's His Story because it's full of literary genre.
Amen brother. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Again, When a righteous man does turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at your hand. 21Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul. 22And the hand of the LORD was there on me; and he said to me, Arise, go forth into the plain, and I will there talk with you. …
Acts 20:31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.
--------------------------–
Ezekiel 33:9 But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.
This Mortal Flesh
Abraham, the father of Faith and many nations, and the friend of God, was a liar!
Moses, the father of Judaism, was a killer!
David, king of Israel, was a murderer and an adulterer!
And the list goes on and on..
Why then did God reveal His messages through them?! The answer is SIMPLE! They TRULY BELIEVED!!!
God imputes righteousness to people on the basis of Faith and NOT on the basis of works, since the beginning of time!
This mortal flesh is corrupt due to the original sin, and it can never be clean, until the end of times!
A Sinless Human is an Oxymoron; a Paradox!
A lot of people who venture into the Bible, Christians & non-Christians, DO NOT UNDERSTAND the above fact, the Dispensation of Times and God's Ultimate Divine Intervention to SAVE this world!
A lot of Christians turn into Pharisees (the originals of whom condemn and sentenced Jesus to death!, aka self-righteous) whether in good faith or not!
Therefore, it is imperative for whoever hears the Good News of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to discern this truth:
THE FREE GIFT OF SALVATION
John 3:16,17
"16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him."
Romans 6:23
"23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Ephesians 2:8,9
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
[Scripture is from the New American Standard Bible (NASB)]
http://www.biblegateway.com
Reference:
https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/11/my-take-gay-christian-is-not-an-oxymoron/comment-page-5/#comment-2337710
wow, vic, a cut and paste!
nothing more convincing than that, nosireebob
Lord of the Rings says Gandalf is real; I read it, it's true.
Shall we drag that god damn sign over here to.VIC.........you know !
Bring back Scooby Doo
"whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
Yep. You keep spamming stuff that shows how HEARTLESS God is to children and babies who die.
@Observer "....."
This is not spamming!
I added a significant passage from the Bible to the post:
Ephesians 2:8,9
Vic,
It's spamming when you can't think of anything new or exactly relevent to the topic and just cut and paste over and over. So why wasn't the new line just by itself?
It just amazes me that you "Christians" have a bible verse for EVERYTHING! Do they make you memorize the bible throughout your entire life. Thus at ANY time you can pull a bible verse out to fit the situation. If true, it's remarkable. I think I'll stick with being "ignorant" and act in more hospitable manner. I don't need to prove my "superiorness" to anyone.
Anneave, Christians know the answers to everything because Jesus wrote His truth about life and the hereafter. He created all. You'd know His truth too, if you read the Bible, comprehended what He teaches, and apply His righteousness to your life.
"bible throughout your entire life. "
No they don't posters like HS uses google and bible study sites, doesn't mean they actually comprehend what they post.
God made everything. Everything came from God. God is perfect so everything coming from God is perfect. There is no good or bad. Only thinking makes it so. Nothing dies it only changes. When done changing it is God.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 ESV
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
get this new age crap out of hear. so the devil is not bad now is that what we're saying. is sin not bad now is that what we're saying. pick a side the gray area is getting smaller
everything coming from God is perfect
---
Well, human beings aren't perfect. If you argue God made us, then your statement contradicts itself.
Christards are so incredibly dumb.
Threatening atheists with hell, is like threatening christians with science.
We don't believe in hell. Why would we be afraid of it?
because they are logically challenged
One may not believe that cancer exists, and therefore not be afraid of it. That will not stop cancer from devastating them.
"That will not stop cancer from devastating them."
There is actual proof of cancer, there is no proof of your hell. Bad analogy.
derp, correction to that thinking in your brain. Look at what it really is. Christian tell you His truth about life and the hereafter. If you want to stay a rock that His seeds of truth can't grow on you. So be it. You were warned.
Jesus said:
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
kinky...
Better to listen to the Father than the Son.
"I and my Father are one"
That sounds kind of gay to me.
They're married?
Lol Jesus and the Father were never one but ask a Christian they were o_0
Papa Don't Preach!
–John 4:Madonna
So he secretly married his father? That is so gross I may puke.
Atheist Hunter, we have a winner. Jesus is God, therefore, they are one.
"I and my Father are one. John 10:30"
We know the bible supports incest.
Wrong interpretation – he meant that we ARE ALL one. WE are ALL the SONS of God. (by the way, research "son of man" for more info on what Jesus actually believed, not what the "accepted" gospels say).
Not saying I'm right but my point is that the bible is open to MANY interpretations. No one can honestly KNOW there's is the right one...
There is no such thing as a gay christian. It is as God labeled the very act; an abomination unto Him...
What if you are gay, and believe that being gay is a sin?
Couldn't you then be a gay christian?
Oh Shut up....
Donkey, Why?
Yep, being gay is an abomnation like eating lobster, scallops, and Alaskan king crablegs. Ooops.
"God" labeled NOTHING. It was a book written thousands of years ago....WRITTEN BY MEN.......it's the 21st century..wish you were here.
Silly. Leviticus was not written by God, nor was it written for Christians. Try again.
No, "Truth", Iron Age sheep mounters did that
It is as God labeled the very act; an abomination unto Him
----
Except, God DIDN'T label the act at all.
Observer, again, you lie. Eating scavengers that clean the ocean floor isn't a sin against Jesus, it's a sin against our bodies and can/will make us sick.
The church is about money and power, and the term gay christian is an oxymoron, as no organized religion would see you live in peace. Two hundred years ago, or even 100, they would have tortured and murdered you, like they did countless others like us. Holding up a candle for these awful bigots only serves to highlight your own ignorance, not to whitewash clean organized child abuse, err religion.
The church is not completely full of awful bigots, and although the history of the church (like any organization) is full of corruption, scandal, murder, and greed, it is not its only purpose around the globe. Many of the churches around the world exist to help those within their community with both their physical self, as well as their spiritual self. For some, the bible is a means to judge others. For others, the bible is a means to guide us in enriching the world. Stereotyping Christians as bigots is no better than any other negative stereotype. I am Catholic and support gay rights.
Ronnie, generalize much? Which church(es) are you referring to? Most churches teach Jesus' truth and it has nothing to do with power or money.
Thank goodness I am a Humanist!
I know one gay christian amongst the many gay folks and christian folks I know. The two are generally a bit mutually exclusive. Gay or straight, I prefer religious people in general not preach at me.
So, it irks you that someone tells you what you need to hear/know instead of you wanting to listen to what you want to hear. What a generation! No wonder why Jesus made you the last generation.
"No wonder why Jesus made you the last generation."
Another illiterate comment from the Christians. That's why Christians have been making this claim for centuries and it's still not true.
@Chad ""IMHO, you better know if God is real or not. Saying that it is irrelevant because He cant be scientifically detected is a catastrophically weak argument."
@Joe "And using your imagination to say that it is there is a huge catastrophic! You better know if (Adad, Adapa, Adrammelech, Aeon, Agasaya, Aglibol, Ahriman, Ahura Mazda, Ahurani, Ai-ada, Al-Lat, Aja, Aka, Alalu, Al-Lat, Amm, Al-Uzza (El-'Ozza or Han-Uzzai), An, Anahita...
@Chad "again. I have a reason for not investigating those other "gods". Since the God of Israel IS real, then all the other gods are fake.
What is your reason for rejecting Azura Mazda? It isnt the same as my reason for rejecting Azura Mazda.
Very true! "Truth by definition excludes"– The absolute claims of Christianity.
Your god is not real. I can prove it right now. There. See? Your god isn't real. I just proved it. What? Oh, that. You have to have faith that I proved it. You are comfortable with faith, right? Well, put up or shut up.
Chad
You accuse others of confirmation bias, LMAO. So if you are too lazy to do the research get Rachel to do it when she/it takes over.
May 8, 2013 — An international team of physicists has found the first direct evidence of pear shaped nuclei in exotic atoms
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130508172151.htm
Plus new woodland lizard found in Peru !
May 12, 2013 at 12:21 pm | Report abuse |
(omg sock puppet "Rachel" must be on vacation)
And, here again, Chad claims knowledge he does not have and cannot demonstrate.
"My god is real"
and how does Chad 'know' this
'Empty Tomb' of course.
No it is the red devil thing with Chad maybe......................the horns are POKING him to hard ?
@Cheesemakers
=>that the tomb was found empty by a group of Jesus' women followers is accepted as historically reliable by a majority of scholars (believer, atheist, agnostic).
Christianity rests on strong historical evidence.
Atheism, on the other hand, virtually always rests on an a-priori assumption that God does not exist (as demonstrated on this blog every day)
"Gary Habermas surveyed 1400 scholars (both skeptics and non-skeptics), Of these scholars, approximately 75% favor one or more of these arguments for the empty tomb, while approximately 25% think that one or more arguments oppose it. Thus, while far from being unanimously held by critical scholars, it may surprise some that those who embrace the empty tomb as a historical fact still comprise a fairly strong majority(75%).
http://www.garyhabermas.com/articles/J_Study_Historical_Jesus_3-2_2005/J_Study_Historical_Jesus_3-2_2005.htm
If Jesus existed he was not likely to have been placed in a tomb so one of those probably accounts for the empty tomb.
"Atheism, on the other hand, virtually always rests on an a-priori assumption that God does not exist "
Chard, still blathering on stuff you do not understand?
Chad, Christianity is not founded on strong historical evidence. There is little evidence for Jesus as a person and none for the divinity, miracles, empty tomb, etc. The NT has no evidence to support it (apart from a few places and people) and science contradicts the creation myth and with it removes the underpinning for "original sin".
@Chad,
Come on, update your copy/paste file. I told you before that it wasn't "1400 scholars", but 1400 papers.
"Since 1975, more than 1400 scholarly publications on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus have appeared."
That's from your own link.
Eyewitness is very unreliable easily influenced by manipulation and the more time taken after the fact the less reliable it is.
Two examples from my training.
Class of 20. First student is given ample time to read a script of an incident. First student tells the tale to the second verbally, 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th, etc. At the end all are required to write their version the differences can be quite dramatic.
Class of 20. A short violent skit is acted out in front of the students, that are then required to use their training and write down all the details they remember. Again when comparing the results the can be quite different from trained pros.
So Chad ....Not hard for...I saw some guy walking around that looked just like jesus, even the same type of robes...2nd guy....No can't be they killed him three days ago....3rd guy...This guy told me they saw jesus walking around, sounds crazy...40 to 50 years later...and people saw jesus alive and talking to his disciples.
BS can be formulated fairly easily, Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, don't you know?
"=>that the tomb was found empty by a group of Jesus' women followers is accepted as historically reliable by a majority of scholars (believer, atheist, agnostic)."
That is another lie Chad.
Chad wants to be president of the Liars for Jesus club...he is working very hard at it.
lie?
The way you are using that word leads me to believe you arent completely clear on its real definition.
"Gary Habermas surveyed 1400 scholars (both skeptics and non-skeptics), Of these scholars, approximately 75% favor one or more of these arguments for the empty tomb, while approximately 25% think that one or more arguments oppose it. Thus, while far from being unanimously held by critical scholars, it may surprise some that those who embrace the empty tomb as a historical fact still comprise a fairly strong majority(75%).
http://www.garyhabermas.com/articles/J_Study_Historical_Jesus_3-2_2005/J_Study_Historical_Jesus_3-2_2005.htm
sam stone, you posted "Atheism, on the other hand, virtually always rests on an a-priori assumption that God does not exist "
Chard, still blathering on stuff you do not understand?"
Answer: You don't understand sam. Without Jesus there would be nothing (void). And you sam, wouldn't be around to have your foolish assumption.
Chad
Lordy, Lordy, can you find some Christian apologetics quote that redefines every word in the language? What a disingenuous creep you are. A cave can become a tomb if a corpse is enclosed, no body no tomb, an empty tomb is just a cave. The traditions of the time was to take the crucified cover them over with dirt in a ditch to prevent the stench, not very likely that the Romans would allow this particular criminal to be allowed any special burial, that could make him out to be some sort of martyr, in the ditch he went. The folklore is just that, delusional BS.
See.... Chad and HS..........MOM AND DAD DID IT !!!.................it was not the red horn-y guy/gal
Scientists Identify Why Some Fathers Are Left Holding the Baby
Mar. 12, 2013 — A century old mystery as to why, for some animals, it's the father rather than the mother that takes care of their young has been cracked by researchers at the University of Sheffield.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130312121842.htm
From another thread............
But Sara..................the POLITICIANS...............military and police forces should know the information and understand IT !
https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/11/my-take-gay-christian-is-not-an-oxymoron/#comments
HS, Do you have any evidence for that?
CHad,
1. Gary Habermas is a CHristian apologist, so I don't accept his "research" as non-biased.
2. Your quoted statement says "skeptics and non-skeptics", it does not say "atheist". How many were "skeptics"? There could have been 1 skeptic or 10 or 50. What is his definition of "skeptic"? Of course non-skeptics are going to accept the assertion, that is what makes them "non-skeptic" which of course skews the whole "majority" claim doesn't it? I now see where you get some of your dishonest and lying style Chad, from Gary.
3. Name one atheist or agnostic scholar who accepts the empty tomb arguement, that wass an actual proven event.?
Chad
This should not come as a surprise to you that a very large majority at least 75% of posters would define you as a disingenuous, lying Christian apologetics troll. You accuse others of a priori or confirmation bias when you have already reached your conclusion that the god of Israel is real and would reject out of hand any argument to the contrary. You are what you are but what do you hope to accomplish?
From the topic:
"I'm still an evangelical Christian, but one thing is now crystal clear to me. American evangelicals' bad reputation isn't just because of what we believe. It's mostly because of how we behave."
Actually, it is about 50/50:
And being gay does not change the ratio:
Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).
Current problems:
Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I always shake my head reading any of your posts reality. You're a dead man typing.
HS. Because you don't like reality and prefer fairy tales?
Well there's no need for the oxy- prefix for sure.