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May 11th, 2013
10:00 PM ET
My Take: ‘Gay Christian’ is not an oxymoron
By Justin Lee, Special to CNN (CNN)–In high school, I was a Christian know-it-all. My nickname was "God boy," and I was known for regularly preaching at my friends about social issues of the day. I dismissed their objections - and accusations of homophobia - as intolerance for my faith. "I'm just telling you what God's Word says," I'd argue. Years later I realized my mistake. What my peers most objected to wasn't my beliefs - it was my condescending attitude. I debated and preached when I should have listened. I thought that stating my position loudly and unyieldingly was a sign of strength. In the process, I alienated my friends. I'm still an evangelical Christian, but one thing is now crystal clear to me. American evangelicals' bad reputation isn't just because of what we believe. It's mostly because of how we behave. When ESPN commentator Chris Broussard was criticized for saying that openly gay NBA player Jason Collins was “openly rebelling against God,” some evangelicals argued that conservative theological views are no longer tolerated in America. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter But they're missing the point. Broussard's language didn't just express a religious view about sexual morality; it referred to gay people in ways that were dehumanizing, reducing all gay people's lives to a single sex act. Other outspoken Christians routinely say even worse things, comparing gay people to pedophiles, for example. No one is immune from criticism in a free country with diverse beliefs. But if Christians feel particularly singled out at times, I'd argue that our perceived lack of empathy for others is largely to blame. I can often test a Christian's level of empathy by offering a single admission: When I was 18, I realized that I'm gay. Empathetic Christians are typically intrigued by such a statement, even if they also question how a conservative Southern Baptist could also be openly gay. They want to know about my struggles, how my family and church responded, and whether I ever feel my faith and sexuality are at odds with one another. I love these questions, because they show that the other person genuinely sees me as a human being. But far too often, Christians respond not with curiosity and questions but with politics and preaching. They quote Bible passages at me, make assumptions about my faith, or tell me why they’re opposed to same-sex marriage. I'm no longer a person to them; I'm a symbol of a culture war. A battlefield. And when I don't want to be treated that way, they assume I'm turning away because I didn't really want to hear the truth. This kind of behavior is why so many of my LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) friends want nothing to do with the church. But it's not only them. In my book, "Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate," I share the story of Cindy, a conservative evangelical mom whose life was thrown into turmoil when her son told her he was gay. This wasn't a political question for Cindy; it was a personal one. But the dehumanizing rhetoric about gay people she heard from the pulpit made her afraid to talk to anyone at church about her son's sexuality. Christians are not a monolithic group. I know many empathetic Christians, including many who speak up regularly for their LGBT brothers and sisters. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories The loudest megaphones do not speak for the rest of us, but they are still loud, and legion. To them I say: Gay people are not an issue. We're people. Some of us are Christians, too. And if it disturbs you that I refer to myself as both gay and Christian, I invite you to take the time to get to know me, and read what I write. You don't have to agree, and you might think I’m a sinner, but at least you’ll see me as a human being. Baptist minister and author Tony Campolo quips that Jesus entreated Christians not to "love the sinner and hate the sin," but to "love the sinner and hate your own sin." Jesus saved his harshest words for the self-righteously devout and chose the outcasts and sinners as his closest friends. Perhaps a lesson in Jesus-style humility might do us all some good. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Justin Lee. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor’s note: Justin Lee is the Executive Director of the Gay Christian Network and author of
To Psst,
Thnx. Rushed lack of editing.
Mirosal
The "buy-bull" is NOT considered evidence because, from a legal perspective, it does NOT meet the criteria for the word "evidence". It does, however, fully meet the meaning of "hearsay", which is NOT admis'sible as evvidence of any kind.
prove it
Simple ... if you want to use it as "evidence", you must first verify its source. So, since Christians think it's the "word of god", then all you have to do is get "god" to sign an affidavit, or take the stand and say that it's "his" word. Otherwise, it's just stories written decades after Jesus supposedly lived, with no 1st person witnesses that verified a single word of what was written about Jesus in the New Testament. Also, learn to use the "reply" link.
"Mirosal
Simple ... if you want to use it as "evidence", you must first verify its source. So, since Christians think it's the "word of god", then all you have to do is get "god" to sign an affidavit, or take the stand and say that it's "his" word. Otherwise, it's just stories written decades after Jesus supposedly lived, with no 1st person witnesses that verified a single word of what was written about Jesus in the New Testament. Also, learn to use the "reply" link."
incorrect.
"incorrect."
how incredibly insightful. thank you, thank you for that bit of wisdom.....
"Prove it."
Idiot, try citing the Bible in a court of law.
"Idiot, try citing the Bible in a court of law."
They tried that with the 10 commandments and they had to tear it down. LOL!
Illinois took care of the pesky hearsay concept. "Hearsay evidence proves crucial in Drew Peterson's conviction"
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/07/justice/illinois-drew-peterson-verdict
I love how you have to lie to make a point, lolly.
Here's the truth: But Illinois passed a special law in 2008 that allows such hearsay evidence in rare instances when prosecutors believe a person was killed to prevent his or her testimony.
The law quickly became known as "Drew's law."
Defense attorneys argued that it was unconsti tutional.
And they plan to appeal. Do you get the fact that the law allows such evidence RARELY? And only under the circ umstances shown above?
You're as much a liar as HS or Chard.
when and if u want to learn about christ, take your time. study. ask honest questions and be sincere. open your mind.
If YOU actually did any of those things then you would discover that nothing that you believe is true is supported by any evidence whatsoever. How do I know this? Because if any of it was true then you wouldn't need faith. It would be obvious to anyone who did honest research of the facts. But there are no facts...all you have is faith and that's simply not good enough.
"AtheistSteve
If YOU actually did any of those things then you would discover that nothing that you believe is true is supported by any evidence whatsoever. How do I know this? Because if any of it was true then you wouldn't need faith. It would be obvious to anyone who did honest research of the facts. But there are no facts...all you have is faith and that's simply not good enough."
incorrect
faith is not the absence of evidence.
Faith; noun – belief that is not based on proof.
The dictionary disagrees with you.
"Faith; noun – belief that is not based on proof.
The dictionary disagrees with you."
I don't think faith knows how to use a dictionary.
Lack of proof and lack of evidence aren't the same thing. There are hundred's of definitions of faith, however, so this conversation can only get sillier.
hundreds
nazi god hating fascists, what is it u want? y r u here asking questions about the lord jesus christ?
There is no fairy in the sky..............with his partner the red devil !
But.....................MOM AND DAD DID IT !!!..................and NOT with the horn-y red devil `
Scientists Identify Why Some Fathers Are Left Holding the Baby
Mar. 12, 2013 — A century old mystery as to why, for some animals, it's the father rather than the mother that takes care of their young has been cracked by researchers at the University of Sheffield.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130312121842.htm\
That red devil with the funky horns...........and his partner the fairy.........did NOT create US !
The ORIGIN story is bullsh-it...............so is the bible............... nasty !
From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml
Scientists have unearthed the first direct signs of cheesemaking, at a site in Poland that dates back 7,500 years.
Human Evolution
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2cHumanevo.shtml
For all POLITIANS see below!
For all creationists and ID believers...............IT only takes minutes to figure IT out. No fairy in the sky needed !
New Device Can Extract Human DNA With Full Genetic Data in Minutes
May 6, 2013 — Take a swab of saliva from your mouth and within minutes your DNA could be ready for analysis and genome sequencing with the help of a new device.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130506132100.htm
But Sara..................the POLITICIANS...............military and police forces should know the information and understand IT !
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/11/my-take-gay-christian-is-not-an-oxymoron/#comments
well, that is wonderful. thanks for sharing.
so what?
Maybe they.............the politicians and you faith can learn the truth ..................and everybody around the planet !
Mom and Dad............created you ............not the fairy in the sky............with the red horn-y devil.
Peace
Chad too.............poke.
And faith....................they might know already.
https://www.f35.com/
Peace
rambling moron /rāMB Ling Mor On/ Noun: Complete trust or confidence in someone or something. Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
y does that bother u so much?
when you de man d that cer tain docu m ents b e e x cl ud ed as e v id enc e be c au se the y are "t o ta l y f i c t t i o us," you have to supp ort that stat e ment with facts.
No, the burden of proof is on the person claiming it is true. You have to prove the existence of your deity to support your contention that the Bible is credible. Christians are the ones with the credibility problem.
You are simply playing the "disprove a negative" game, which is of course disingenuous. The first claim was be Christians that the Bible is fact; they must support that assertion.
Nice try on the disingenuous thing, though.d
"Not so
No, the burden of proof is on the person claiming it is true. You have to prove the existence of your deity to support your contention that the Bible is credible. Christians are the ones with the credibility problem.
You are simply playing the "disprove a negative" game, which is of course disingenuous. The first claim was be Christians that the Bible is fact; they must support that assertion."
honey, u r not very bright r u?
u cannot set out to engage someone in a debate and before it begins forbid her from using certain arguments because you question the validity of the evidence she may choose to introduce. that is not a debate. if, after the debate has begun, you challenge her evidence, u must have sound reasons.
faith is full of ..............you know faith................!
The "buy-bull" is NOT considered evidence because, from a legal perspective, it does NOT meet the criteria for the word "evidence". It does, however, fully meet the meaning of "hearsay", which is NOT admis'sible as evvidence of any kind.
oth e r wise, a ny one in a d eb ate co uld de and the p ro hi b iti o n of the others' use of everyt hing she plan ned to use to prove her point me rely by in s i st ing on it.
What's with the idiotic breaking up of words? Catch a clue: You only need to do that for words with tits or cum in them, like "fictitious" or "document." When you break up words like "be", which you did do, you look like a total idiot. Which your content proves you to be anyway, so don't make it worse.
"Athy
So prove it. And the bible is inad mis sible. Too old, too mi st ran sla ted, too h ypo th etical. And to tally fi ct i ti ous."
so, u can't prove a negative?
"Observer
Chad,
If God really cared about saving us, he'd reveal himself and save billions of people from going to hell."
he would?
Hery faith.............go see what Billy Graham says is going to happen.................on wnd ?
Something about an anti something !
"mama k
Well I thought you were some Christian, or at least one that wouldn't avoid truth or facts, but apparently I'm wrong. Apparently to lie and try to weasel out of making false statements is an admirable thing to do for your Lord, which you have proven above. Okee dokee."
you thought she was some christian!
This was regarding HeavenSent and well, there's no need to say anymore; lol.
mama k continues to prove John 8:44.
Beasts are gubmints. The spirit that was in charge of Rome is in charge of the diverse beast, the USA. The NT version of the OT is Rome, Spain, British, Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, and the melting pot...
How many dufus humanoids actually believe that gubmints are in charge of marriage?? Usurping at its worst.
proving santa, fsm, sky daddy, (all the atheist's god-hating fascist gods) don't exist was cake. it is impossible to reach that conclusion about jesus christ, god's only begotten son. it is easy to prove he lived and that he was who he said he was.
faith.
OOOPS! Only believers can hate God.
Your statement is entirely without LOGIC.
Guess again.
So prove it. And the bible is inadmissible. Too old, too mistranslated, too hypothetical. And totally fictitious.
Athy, only sinners who refuse to give up their sinful ways fight for that ridiculous argument.
Blah, blah, blah.
What a steaming pile, HS. You have no proof and you know it, but you will lie until you choke because you are too arrogant to ever admit that you are wrong. The only person you fool is yourself.
HS...."sin" is a man made concept
Proverbs 10:16
Amen.
@Heavensent: Is all of the Bible the word of God? You seem to be saying that some parts are not and some parts are? If it's not 100% the word of God, then why do so many Christians swear that it is the word of God?
Will it be "change the subject" time for HeavenSent, or "run away and pretend she didn't see it" time?
dog, the Bible was scribed by Holy Men inspired by the Holy Ghost. God is the author.
Inquiring Minds, get over that ego. I want to log off so I can go to sleep,
So the bible was written by "holy men" who were inspired by the "holy ghost", but god was the author. And you really believe that?
Athy, I believe every word of God to be true, unlike you that believes the lies of satan.
HeavenSent
"I believe every word of God to be true, unlike you that believes the lies of satan."
TOTAL LOGIC FAILURE. The only people who believe in Satan are those who believe in God.
1 Samuel 15:23
Amen.
"tallulah13
So are we supposed to be inspired by your made up stories?"
so, i agree. we thought you would be inspired. that's why u r here
It's a violation of the Ninth Commandment to lie about why Tally is here. No heaven for you.
Observer, for your generation, if you do not repent your sins to Jesus and ask Him for forgiveness ... you'd rather believe the false prophets that slew the true prophets and Jesus... that declared God's law to be true. All the true prophets wanted to live in these last days to witness all the foolishness.
HeavenSent,
Still completely STUMPED by a question asking what the Bible is all about?.
WOW! Have you ever read a Bible? You apparently are clueless as to what is says it's all about.
Jesus thought he was living in the last days. So did Paul. Slight boo-boo on that one.
Oh, and learn to write. Grammatically you said that it was the false prophets that declared God's law to be true . . . which I certainly agree with, but that is not what you meant.
Observer, the law is God's truth and the prophets (before them were the Angels) taught men (meaning women too) His truth.
Kill-Crazy, Jesus never thought He was living in end of days. The apostles did and were only given their portions of God's truth to spread. Eleven of them, along with Jesus taught the Jews, whereas, Paul, taught the gentiles. There is a reason for this.
HeavenSent,
So you're still STUMPED.
What did Jesus specifically say "IS WHAT THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS ARE ALL ABOUT"?
Last try. If you still can't figure it out, start reading a Bible.
The Kill-Crazy Tuba Rampage of Barry Manilow, I could have typed it better but, you understood what I posted, even if it's late and I'm tired and about to log off.
Perhaps you would be happier with the moniker "STUMPED", "HeavenSent".
Observer, are you or are you not going to post what you want me to read?
Observer, I'm logging off. I'm sure you'll stalk me some other time, somewhere else on these articles.
Observer, even though I tried to post Matthew 5:17-18 with Jesus speaking was blocked. I'm sure you can read it yourself.
Jesus' own assertion that the End Time was only a few years away: Luke 21:32, Matthew 24:34.
I did enjoy your little "stalking" persecution complex hissy fit, though.
Liars never stand alone.
How do you know which passages of the Bible need to be obeyed and which can be ignored? What is the % of the Bible that must be obeyed and what % can be ignored?
it has to be all or nothing doesn't it? Either obey every line of the bible as God's word, or else admit that some lines can be ignored, and then the entire book is of dubious value.
If some lines, in fact MANY LINES can be ignored, then how can you be so sure about the gay references?
Seems like you are just using the bible to justify your own bigotry.
Dyslexic doG,
Don't expect an answer from Chad. When the questions got tough, he ran off as usual.
Actually, as much as fundies deny it, Jesus said" For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law."
Earth has not disappeared, so it is safe to say you are still required to execute your mouthy teenagers (okay, that doesn't sound like a bad idea).
Every word is in force. Every psychotic line of Deuteronomy, every insane uttering in Leviticus. All still in force.
So basically, heaven must be totally empty.
dog, all of Jesus' scriptures are truth and all are to be obeyed by each and every one. And, don't whine about not obeying all His truth because we live on earth and have to give our allegiance to our government first as in render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him. 2 Mark 12:17,
Observer, if we don't answer your questions it because we left the blog before you posted it or, just didn't see a post asking for an answer. That's 2 truth to bank on.
HeavenSent,
Don't make excuses for Chad. He's run off several times as soon as I him a question he is afraid to answer.
Glad you're on this page. No excuse not to answer the question below.
Jesus' words that are truly not true:
"Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things (the End Times) have happened."
"Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
@Heavensent: then what about all the words attributed to Jesus that were written decades or even hundreds of years after his death by people that had never met him? Surely you can't believe that they are verbatim?
HS probably thinks verbatim is some new type of pasta.
Observer, due to the sin of pride, you have no shame. Chad most likely leaves before you post another babble post.
Athy, can you hum a few bars of "silence is golden"?
I like to hum "My Shower Is Golden".
dog, what part of God created all do you not believe and, therefore, not understand?
Phony heavensent, quit your day to evening job.
Phony phony HeavenSent, clean the cobwebs from your cameltowe
HeavenSent,
Don't blame me. Unlike you, I know what the Bible says is what the law and the prophets are all about. Even someone on their first day of Sunday School should have learned that.
Read a Bible or ask a Sunday School kid.
@Heavensent: I'd appreciate it if you could explain this to me. Is all of the Bible the word of God? If it's not 100% the word of God, then why do so many Christians swear that it is?
Well, I think we've exposed HS for what she is. Let's move along to the next one.
I've seen verbatims on DVDs – everyone knows what they are.
Observer, even though I tried to post Matthew 5:17-18 it gets blocked. I'm sure you can read it yourself.
Athy, I'm sure you are good at exposing but, His truth isn't your forte.
HeavenSent,
Good quote. So all of the Old Testament laws are still in effect, right?
HeavenSent
"... truth isn't your forte."
And the "truth" of the word filter is not your forte, kid.
(your Matthew quote has the word "ti-ttle" in it)
Title? What's wrong with that word?
Athy,
It's "ti-ttle" in the quote (like the dot on the letter i). Nice of you to display your html skills, though!
Athy, nice of you to write what you think happened, except I've posted that same scripture many times in the past and it took.
HeavenSent, you're unbelievable stupid. The fact that you're not embarrassed by your lack of ability is proof of just how stupid you are.
edit: "unbelievably".
Tom, I know most Christians refuse to post on this site because of you and your dummy handles spewing insults to everyone. Do you think you can back off from stalking me tonight since I'm only on for a short time?
Nope. Don't like it? Suck on it, HS.
Psalms 12:3
Amen.
Ending Christian evangelism with a prayer:
Only for the new members-
The Apostles'/Agnostics’ Creed 2013: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Jerusalem.
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
Amen
(references used are available upon request)
Revelation 3:9
Amen.
9:3 noitaleveR
nemA
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 4:2
Amen.
So part of Deuteronomy is still in effect, and part isn't, and nowhere can you find any reference of what is still a law and what isn't.
Right.
Sure, Matthew 5:17-18 with Jesus speaking is being blocked on this site. You do know how to search the net for scriptures to read His truth, don't you?
Sure, Matthew 5:17-18 with Jesus speaking can be read on the net because my posting this scripture is being blocked.
Matthew 5:17-18
New International Version (NIV)
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished
Matt 5: 17-18, has been analyzed by many contemporary historical Jesus scholars such as Professors Crossan, Ludemann, Borg and Fredriksen, and has been judged to be an invention by Matthew or by a translator i.e. a single attestation (only appears on Matthew's Gospel) and appears in the third Stratum (80-120CE) ex. see Professor Crossan's book, The Historical Jesus. See also:
Professor Ludemann's review in his book Jesus After 2000 Years, pp. 137-138 and http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb392.html.
"Nineteenth-century agnostic Robert G. Ingersoll branded Revelation "the insanest of all books".[30] Thomas Jefferson omitted it along with most of the Biblical canon, from the Jefferson Bible, and wrote that at one time, he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." [31]
Martin Luther once "found it an offensive piece of work" and John Calvin "had grave doubts about its value."[32]
Reality, unlike you, those men were believers of Jesus' truth but they lived in an age that the Book of Revelation wouldn't make sense to them just as microwaves, computers, cell phones, other hi tech etc. today. You, on the other hand will find were you stand with Jesus when he wrote about you many times in scriptures until your final countdown at Revelation 21:8.
"You kids get off my lawn! Just wait till your dad gets home!"
Boo bully Tom, boo.
HS, And posting threats from your sky-fairy handbook is not an attempt at bullying. "A fiery lake of burning sulfur awaits anyone who disagrees with me"
In Santa we trust, remember, Jesus is truth, satan lies.
speakin of des pi cable, rot ten, thoroughly dis gu sting people, how was work 2da y to mto m? bus ted your hump i bet. lol
The real Tom
Which is exactly why she was fired from her job. No one could stand to work with such a nasty person. Can you imagine her in an office? A lab? A school? A department store? I can't think of a single job someone like that could possibly do well. She was a miserable cow to everyone around her and finally got shown the door.
At least she can capitalize.
That thing you do with the water jets in the bathtub, how does God feel about it? Does he like to watch?
HeaventSent,
So what does the New Testament say is what THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS ARE ALL ABOUT? Exact wording please. Show us what you know about the Bible.