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May 11th, 2013
10:00 PM ET

My Take: ‘Gay Christian’ is not an oxymoron

Editor’s note: Justin Lee is the Executive Director of the Gay Christian Network and author of Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate.

By Justin Lee, Special to CNN

(CNN)–In high school, I was a Christian know-it-all.

My nickname was "God boy," and I was known for regularly preaching at my friends about social issues of the day. I dismissed their objections - and accusations of homophobia - as intolerance for my faith.

"I'm just telling you what God's Word says," I'd argue.

Years later I realized my mistake. What my peers most objected to wasn't my beliefs - it was my condescending attitude. I debated and preached when I should have listened. I thought that stating my position loudly and unyieldingly was a sign of strength. In the process, I alienated my friends.

I'm still an evangelical Christian, but one thing is now crystal clear to me. American evangelicals' bad reputation isn't just because of what we believe. It's mostly because of how we behave.

When ESPN commentator Chris Broussard was criticized for saying that openly gay NBA player Jason Collins was “openly rebelling against God,” some evangelicals argued that conservative theological views are no longer tolerated in America.

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But they're missing the point.

Broussard's language didn't just express a religious view about sexual morality; it referred to gay people in ways that were dehumanizing, reducing all gay people's lives to a single sex act. Other outspoken Christians routinely say even worse things, comparing gay people to pedophiles, for example.

No one is immune from criticism in a free country with diverse beliefs. But if Christians feel particularly singled out at times, I'd argue that our perceived lack of empathy for others is largely to blame.

I can often test a Christian's level of empathy by offering a single admission: When I was 18, I realized that I'm gay.

Empathetic Christians are typically intrigued by such a statement, even if they also question how a conservative Southern Baptist could also be openly gay. They want to know about my struggles, how my family and church responded, and whether I ever feel my faith and sexuality are at odds with one another.

I love these questions, because they show that the other person genuinely sees me as a human being.

But far too often, Christians respond not with curiosity and questions but with politics and preaching.

They quote Bible passages at me, make assumptions about my faith, or tell me why they’re opposed to same-sex marriage.

I'm no longer a person to them; I'm a symbol of a culture war. A battlefield. And when I don't want to be treated that way, they assume I'm turning away because I didn't really want to hear the truth.

This kind of behavior is why so many of my LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) friends want nothing to do with the church.

But it's not only them.

In my book, "Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate," I share the story of Cindy, a conservative evangelical mom whose life was thrown into turmoil when her son told her he was gay.

This wasn't a political question for Cindy; it was a personal one. But the dehumanizing rhetoric about gay people she heard from the pulpit made her afraid to talk to anyone at church about her son's sexuality.

Christians are not a monolithic group. I know many empathetic Christians, including many who speak up regularly for their LGBT brothers and sisters.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

The loudest megaphones do not speak for the rest of us, but they are still loud, and legion. To them I say: Gay people are not an issue. We're people. Some of us are Christians, too. And if it disturbs you that I refer to myself as both gay and Christian, I invite you to take the time to get to know me, and read what I write. You don't have to agree, and you might think I’m a sinner, but at least you’ll see me as a human being.

Baptist minister and author Tony Campolo quips that Jesus entreated Christians not to "love the sinner and hate the sin," but to "love the sinner and hate your own sin."

Jesus saved his harshest words for the self-righteously devout and chose the outcasts and sinners as his closest friends.

Perhaps a lesson in Jesus-style humility might do us all some good.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Justin Lee.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Homosexuality • Opinion

soundoff (3,629 Responses)
  1. mama k

    I see from some of the comments and questions that some still don't have a basic education about homosexuality. Muslims lead the way as having the most uneducated, disenfranchising stance toward gays. But many Christians are not far behind. Just last week CNN reported some gays being arrested in Zambia which is a predominantly Christian nation.

    Christianity has always been conflicted on social issues, but this current hot topic really highlights the extremism within Christianity. One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over four million members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage. Thomas Jefferson hit the nail on the head over 200 years ago:

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    (from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

    Some claim that Christianity and science are not incompatible, yet we find many who continue to ignore current scientific knowledge on the issue of homosexuality. Is the problem poor education, steadfastness to one's own flavor of biblical interpretation, or both?

    Whatever your religion, whatever your belief, with gay marriage coming quickly to the U.S., now is the time to at least have a basic education about homosexuality.

    The following is long, but note the quote from Professor MIchael King below in the section on psychology.
    ==================================================
    Psychology

    The American Psychological Association states "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people", and says most people's sexual orientation is determined at an early age. Research into how sexual orientation in males may be determined by genetic or other prenatal factors plays a role in political and social debates about homosexuality, and also raises concerns about genetic profiling and prenatal testing."

    Professor Michael King states: "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."

    The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:

    "Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice."

    Biology

    The following is from the article:

    Homosexuality ultimately a result of gene regulation, researchers find (12/11/2012 – LiveScience)

    [ The search for a "gay gene" may be off-target, new research finds. Another process called epigenetics that switches genes on and off may explain why homosexuality runs in families.

    Epigenetics are heritable changes caused by factors other than DNA. Instead of traits getting passed down through the genes, epigenetic change happens because of the way genes are regulated, or turned on and off.

    These genetic regulators may be the reason homosexuality persists in nature despite the fact that gay people are less likely to reproduce, suggests the new study published in the journal The Quarterly Review of Biology.

    "These things have evolved because they're good for the parents, but they sometimes, not [with] high frequency, but sometimes carry over" into offspring, study researcher William Rice, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, told LiveScience. In a male fetus, Rice and his colleagues write, an epigenetic change that benefited the mother may lead to "feminization" of sexual preference — homo- or bisexuality. The same may be true for epigenetic changes passed down by dad to a female fetus. (The terms feminization and masculinization of sexual preference refer to sexual orientation only — not to physical or personality traits of the offspring.)

    The findings add to past research suggesting gay men haven't died out, because female relatives of gay men tend to have more children on average than other females. The study researchers specifically found that two genes passed on through the maternal line could produce this effect.

    Hormones, epigenetics and orientation

    Rice and his colleagues focused on epi-marks, which are molecular changes that act like temporary "switches" to turn genes on and off. If a gene is a blueprint, the epi-mark is the construction foreman who makes sure the product gets built. An epi-mark also determines when, where and how much a gene is expressed, according to the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis.

    These molecular switches are usually erased very early in the developmental process, but they can be passed down from generation to generation, too, Rice said.

    Some epi-marks are particularly important during fetal development, when they promote normal physical development in the sexes despite natural variations in testosterone during pregnancy. Researchers know that fetal exposure to too much testosterone can masculinize the genitals, brain or behavior of a genetically female fetus. Likewise, too little testosterone can make a genetically male fetus more feminized.

    But here's the catch: There's lots of overlap between the levels of testosterone male and female fetuses get exposed to. That means there must be another side to the story, Rice and his colleagues wrote.

    That side appears to be epigenetics, Rice said.

    "Early in development, we think these epi-marks are laid down so that girl fetuses will be relatively insensitive to testosterone and male fetuses will be relatively sensitive to testosterone," Rice said.

    Biological behavior

    Thus, if an epi-mark that kept a mother from getting exposed to high testosterone in development gets passed on to her son — the opposite sex — it could desensitize him to testosterone, contributing to his sexual preference for men. Similarly, if a male-specific epi-mark from dad gets passed to a daughter, it could "masculinize" her sexual preference, making her more interested in women.

    These findings could explain why twin studies show that homosexuality runs in families, but no "gay gene" can be found, Rice said. In identical twins, there's about a 20 percent chance that if one twin is gay, the other will be too. If genetic change were responsible for homosexuality, you'd expect a much higher match, Rice said. Epigenetics, however, can explain the heritability without the need for a specific genetic change.

    The hypothesis could be tested by examining epigenetic marks in parents of kids with gay versus straight offspring, Rice said. There are, of course, concerns that this knowledge could be used by parents who want to avoid gay offspring, Rice said, but that concern already exists around certain hormonal conditions in utero, which are known to contribute to an increased chance of offspring being lesbians.

    "That cat's already out of the bag," Rice said. He added that an understanding of the biological underpinnings of homosexuality could help emphasize that same-sex behavior is not "unnatural."

    "In fact, it's a major part of the natural world," Rice said. Fourteen percent of Western gulls raise chicks in female-female pairs, he pointed out. And 8 percent of male sheep show zero interest in fertile ewes, but get sexually excited by other rams. ]
    ==================================================

    May 14, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
    • Science

      Hey faith..................I remember asking you on Christians Be Nice................about S_EX education if it woked for you,

      and the SH-IT HIT THE FAN..................and pages went bye bye.................too funny................and the dance

      is going on over on the other thread faith...............you know .............lmfas..........bedevroooooom !!! and the red devil !!!

      May 14, 2013 at 6:09 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Revelation 21:8

      Amen.

      May 14, 2013 at 8:43 pm |
    • Ayn Rand

      HeavenBent still can't put together a sentence.

      May 14, 2013 at 8:46 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Revelation 21 : 8 hardly bodes well for you, H.S.

      May 14, 2013 at 8:47 pm |
    • Science

      Well it looks the same here mama k about the ethics issue ...................tough on religion and the red devil !

      May 15, 2013 at 6:56 am |
    • Science

      mama k................looks like morals are lacking too ?

      Peace

      May 15, 2013 at 6:59 am |
  2. Gay Marriage Watch

    Same-se-x marriage in the U.S.

    Done deal: Connecticut, Delaware, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington & the District of Columbia.

    Who's next?
    Illinois: Gov. Pat Quinn called on the Illinois House to send him legislation to legalize gay marriage, saying lawmakers had plenty of time to make up their mind on the issue. The state Senate passed the measure on Valentine's Day, and the governor has said he's ready to sign it.

    New Jersey: Gov. Christie doesn't seem to be against gay marriage coming from a ballot measure, but has stated in the past he would veto such a change from legislators. This was his stance before the President changed his views. If Christie reconsiders, NJ could be sooner than expected.

    California: It seems gay marriage will be in CA soon one way or the other. This is because polls show a much larger support for gay marriage than when Prop 8 was passed. So even if the upcoming SCOTUS case were to fail, it would likely be put to voters there very soon again.

    Hawaii: Already has some good laws on the books evidently, and although things have been put on hold until after 2013, legislators there are attempting to speed up the process.

    ==========================
    Let's see around the globe:

    Done deal: Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Iceland, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Uruguay, & portions of Brazil.

    In the works:

    France: Has already passed same-se-x marriage bill in both houses; president intends to sign; right-wing party plans to challenge in the Consti tutional Council to try to force a delay on enactment.

    Germany: On 22 March 2013 the Bundesrat passed an initiative to open marriage to same-se-x couples, which now moves onto the Bundestag for approval.

    Ireland: On 14 April 2013 as part of the Consti tutional Convention a measure voted in favour of same-se-x marriage by a margin of 79 percent.

    UK: On 5 February 2013, the House of Commons debated the Marriage (Same Se-x Couples) Bill and approved it in a 400–175 vote at the second reading. (Third reading to be scheduled.)

    Finland: 03-19-2013: The citizens' initiative overrides the committee's decision, and thus the bill must now be considered by the Parliament.

    Brazil: In November 2012, the Court of Bahia legalized same-se-x marriage in the state of Bahia. In December 2012, the state of São Paulo legalized same-se-x marriage. More Brazilian states are considering measures.

    Luxembourg: On 6 February 2013, the Chamber's justice committee agreed to approve the measure opening marriage for same-se-x couples. On 20 February, the committee initially backed the right to simple adoption for same-se-x couples. On 6 March 2013, the committee confirmed that position.

    Australia: lower house MP will seek to have his Marriage Equality Amendment Bill brought for an immediate vote in the House on June 6.

    Mexico: rulings due this summer.


    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ULdaSrYGLQ&w=640&h=360]

    May 14, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
  3. Atheist Hunter

    Do gay Christians read the bible or do you have another book you go by???

    May 14, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
    • Alison Tschains

      He's not going to answer you, jerkwad.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
    • Observer

      Do hetero Christians ever read the Bible and the very important Golden Rule?

      You won't find Christian hypocrites who pick on gays EVER refer to that on here.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:29 pm |
    • snopes says

      Atheist Hunter is a jerkwad.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
  4. Atheist Hunter

    Why do you read it?

    May 14, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
  5. Atheist Hunter

    Justin Lee.........you had it right the 1st time. You've been deceived.

    May 14, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • Giggling

      Only AH knows what god really wants. Everyone else is deceived.

      Messiah's pet.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:54 pm |
  6. Ben and Jerry and Mary

    There is no single uniform definition of traditional marriage.

    All our definitions are belong to us.

    May 14, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • Bill

      You might be adding significant depth to the age old (traditional?) question "Who's on top?".

      May 14, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
    • Jan Cohen

      I now pronounce thee man and car.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
  7. Atheist Hunter

    Hom ose xuality is clearly condemned by God Almighty as sin, and will never be accepted by
    Him, and embraced by Him (Romans 1:32). The Bible says, “For the wages of sin is death; but the
    gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord”(Romans 6:23). Sin is breaking the
    commandments of God (Romans 7:7-13). If one fails to repent of their sin and trust the Lord Jesus
    Christ by faith alone for their eternal salvation, they will die in their sin and will go to hell for all
    eternity, suffering in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:11-15). The Lord Jesus Christ said, “...except ye
    repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3). But Praise God, there is hope for sinful man to be
    saved from sin and escape the damnation of hell, and it is only through the Lord Jesus Christ (John
    14:6), when we repent of our sin and trust Him alone by faith as our personal Lord and Saviour (Acts
    20:21). The Bible says, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that
    whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life”(John 3:16).

    May 14, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
    • Observer

      God also condemns tattos and remarriage.

      So where is your outrage against your fellow Christians with tattos or have remarried?.

      Skip the hypocrisy.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
    • Madtown

      Hom ose xuality is clearly condemned by God
      ----
      No it's not. God has never made a statement on the subject, that we're aware of. If God disapproved of gays, it's highly likely he'd just quit making them.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:08 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      You've obviously never read the bible.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
    • Alison Tschains

      Then let God worry about it and hush your trap in the meantime, 'hunter'.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • Hubert

      You certainly spend a lot of time thinking about ho.mose.xuality Hunter.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      AH, The bible says many contradictory things and christians pick and choose which texts are obsolete. You are choosing to emphasize the homosexual parts ignoring the divorce, shellfish, etc. parts.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • Madtown

      Atheist Hunter
      You've obviously never read the bible.
      ---
      Me? I have read the bible. Still do on occasion. The writings of men. If you think gays are "condemned" based on the few references in the bible, their condemnation comes from the opinions of the human authors, and the religious leaders who edited the works.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Atheist Hunter,

      I believe in there to be a God above the allness of everything known. Beyond our celestial fathoming is God's reign and God's brethren live upon the insides of all things celestially formed as Life. Gayness is not a sin but rather an abomination in God's eyes. The only sin of being physically sensual is in the practicing of it before one is to be married.

      As it now is, most of the world's young are all w h o r I n g around and their mentors seem to condone such Acts of W h o r e d o m. Even the mentors themselves are w h o r I n g around! Live with it Christians and if you find yourself in a w h o r I n g situation, "Turn away"! Your turning asunder of W h o r e d o m ways will give one a better sense of perceptive understanding come one's future times.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
    • The bible also says

      And Moses said unto them “Have ye saved all the women alive?... Now therefore Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known a man by lying with him, but all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves” Num 31:1-2, 9-11, 14-18..

      May 14, 2013 at 7:35 pm |
    • lol??

      In Santa we trust
      AH, The bible says many contradictory things and christians pick and choose which texts are obsolete................"

      You sure have a food hangup stuck in ye ol' noodle.

      "Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat."

      May 14, 2013 at 7:42 pm |
    • lol??

      Madtown, what was the average pay for the editors you keep talkin' about??

      May 14, 2013 at 7:44 pm |
    • Madtown

      what was the average pay for the editors
      --–
      That's pretty funny, but no one knows. They didn't keep very accurate balance sheets back in those days.

      May 14, 2013 at 7:45 pm |
    • lol??

      Observer sayz,
      "God also condemns tattos and remarriage.

      So where is your outrage against your fellow Christians with tattos or have remarried?."

      Are you talkin' about your gubmint god's version of marriage?? How could that possibly work??

      May 14, 2013 at 7:47 pm |
  8. lionlylamb

    As the world does turn seemingly slowly, the person's intellectual recognitions are slow to be formulated. What once was viewed is now viewed differently and will so become changed once again in time's futures, until a finalized rationalism is made wholesome to one's ego, the psychic reservoir of emotional spiritualism, the soulfulness of recognizable perceptivities

    Believe whatever one wants. For, it makes no less difference to God and God’s godly believers. They are of one faith torn bitterly apart by many differing types of faithfulness issues. Believers need to put down their books and lean towards a sense of willingness to ponder today's Life equations.

    Still, the kingdom domains of God are so written to be located inside our bodies and yet do the majorities stay silent in this fact. It is also written that our bodies are Godly buildings in which the godly with God do live in and they keep relative systemic order inside our body/building.

    With so many inner space places to be filled by this earth's living numbers when death does come, why should one look elsewhere for God's kingdom domains than their being upon our bodies’ insides? This worldly family of all Life forms and formations are but from a one-celled family of a c c u m u l a t e d dissensions. As one cell, being our earliest beginning, our evolution, (the processes of mitigating a sense of cellular order from beginning celled moments to a cell’s ending finalities), resulted in mankind's finalized celestial ascension within this world's "Life Tree of Cellular Cosmologies".

    May 14, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
  9. Observer

    fred,

    Since likely millions of HETEROS engage in sodomy, it's somewhat hypocritical for Christians to make an issue of it.

    May 14, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • derp

      Sodomy is one of my favorite pastimes.

      May 14, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
    • G to the T

      Damned Straight! (LOL... couldn't help myself)

      May 17, 2013 at 10:08 am |
  10. Gary

    Kind of fun to watch Christianity tear itself apart. Not the first time, tho.

    May 14, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • lol??

      Time marches on, Kronos is fearsome. Funny ideas about fun.

      "Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

      May 14, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
  11. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    Bored It's nice outside and I'm in a SCIF. I'm ready to go home and go for a ride.

    May 14, 2013 at 3:53 pm |
    • Gary

      How are you managing to post from a SCIF?

      May 14, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      NIPRNet how else?

      May 14, 2013 at 4:04 pm |
    • lol??

      In a pickle, just wantin' to ride the motorsickle??

      May 14, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      roadbike not a motorcycle

      May 14, 2013 at 4:20 pm |
    • lol??

      The original biker gangs were mostly WWII vets that just needed an adrenalin rush and liked beer and women,too, til they got leavened.

      May 14, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
  12. Bootyfunk

    can you even imagine what a GIANT h.omophobe Justin Lee (the author of the article) would be if he wasn't g.ay himself? can you imagine the bigotry and hatred this guy would have been spewing about g.ays if he had been born a straight man?

    it's sad and frustrating to see this kind of story. i welcome people being less h.omophobic, but it really means they are just not listening to the bible saying man laying with man is "abomination" and that they "shall surely be put to death." he clearly ignores these parts of the bible or admits they are wrong and that the authors of the bible were victims of their times. but doesn't that tell you the bible is NOT an inerrant divine work of God - just a book written by men 2K years ago that thought the earth was flat? you've recognized that the bible is just plain wrong in some parts. take the next step - realize it's just a book of myth written by men, same as the "holy" scriptures of any god or goddess. it's the same. superst.ition.

    leaving a cult is hard. very hard. christianity is a cult. ALL religions are cults. the only difference between a cult and a religion is that one is accepted by society and one is not. christianity used to be a cult. then the roman empire made it the official "religion". when there are not more cult members to worship, religions become mythologies. this will eventually happen with christianity.

    cults are not good for you. cults tell you to turn off your brain. get up off your knees. think for yourself. leave the cult. you wont' regret it.

    May 14, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • lol??

      Can't handle a little Jesus cult?? Gwow up, doggie. You too, can have an ALPO treat.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
  13. mama k

    This is interesting to me, but I can't say I'm surprised.

    HeavenSent: "mama k, your Justin Martyr has no eyes to see nor ears to hear His truth. Like you, it's the blind leading the blind." (May 14, 2013 at 2:05 am)

    Saraswati: "@mama k, According to the mainstream (Gallup, Harris) polls about 30% of US Christians don't believe in Satan..." (May 14, 2013 at 9:26 am)

    I would really like to hear a Catholic perspective on this – well really different perspectives might be helpful. HS seems to align me with Justin Martyr. Does HS not know the significance of Justin Martyr in the early church?

    And Justin Martyr was not the only one- there were other early Christian apologists as well that, to explain away the charges that the gospels were copies of other stories, used Satan as the excuse – claiming that Satan had written earlier stories to occur first to confuse the faithful. Now I haven't forgotten that others have pointed out to me that based on surviving texts, based on that evidence alone, the Christian texts are the earliest we have. But the point is, using this as an example among possibly many, how do some Christians rationalize a non-existence of Satan, when Satan was a key explanation for certain things in Christian history? It seems to me, to not make a wobbly story any more wobblier, the Christian God and Satan would have to be joined at the hip for all eternity.

    ??

    May 14, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
    • Science

      And the little red devils game out to play ................mama k.................lmao.

      Paece

      Over the BEDVEROOOOOM

      May 14, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • mama k

      Wow. Don't be bashful now, Christians...

      May 14, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

      Revelation 12:9

      Amen.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:20 pm |
  14. fred

    LinCA
    “The risks associated with …..are far less than the real damage caused by marginalizing gays and lesbians for who they are.”
    =>No, the damage is caused by choices and those choices are influenced by many factors. The experts cannot seem to agree on the ordering of factors.

    “existence of your imaginary friend, it is no more likely to exist than the Tooth Fairy. Believing it exists places you at about the level of a five year old.”
    =>no, it reveals your compete lack of understanding. If you wish to put Obama, Clinton and most of our presidents in the category of 5 year olds then you need to reassess your grasp on reality. Given you see yourself as much greater than these men even though you cannot hope to achieve their level of authority and leadership your argument follows the same reasoning. The Tooth Fairy never achieved the level of authority or influence accredited to Jesus or the Bible for that matter yet somehow you think you have logically equated them. I wonder if all atheists suffer the same impairment.

    May 14, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      LinCA
      “The risks associated with …..are far less than the real damage caused by marginalizing gays and lesbians for who they are.”
      =>No, the damage is caused by choices and those choices are influenced by many factors. The experts cannot seem to agree on the ordering of factors.

      wrong. it's not choices, it's biological. check with the experts - they overwhelmingly agree on that. the APA and every other credible psychological association agrees - being g.ay is normal. and not a choice.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • mama k

      Choices. Like being born a homosexual, fred? Do you consider that a choice?

      May 14, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      “existence of your imaginary friend, it is no more likely to exist than the Tooth Fairy. Believing it exists places you at about the level of a five year old.”
      =>no, it reveals your compete lack of understanding. If you wish to put Obama, Clinton and most of our presidents in the category of 5 year olds then you need to reassess your grasp on reality. Given you see yourself as much greater than these men even though you cannot hope to achieve their level of authority and leadership your argument follows the same reasoning. The Tooth Fairy never achieved the level of authority or influence accredited to Jesus or the Bible for that matter yet somehow you think you have logically equated them. I wonder if all atheists suffer the same impairment.

      bad argument. you're saying that because some other people believe something and they are smart - they must be right about God. terrible logic. it's a way of getting around offering actual evidence of God's existence - for which there is zero. instead of comparing Yahweh to the Tooth Fairy, which you think is unfair - how about a comparison with Zeus, Odin or Ra? they all have "holy texts" to "prove" their authenticity - does that mean those Gods are real? or... is it that you were brought up in a cult called christianity and you believe anything the bible tells you?

      May 14, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Reality

      o "Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.

      To wit:

      1. The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:

      “ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

      2. "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

      3. See also the From the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”
      "Most scientists who study human se-xuality agree that gay people are born that way. But that consensus raises an evolutionary puzzle: How do genes associated with h-omose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?"
      http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/evolution/Gay-gene-deconstructed.html

      Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions supposedly abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.

      And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x/civil unions not same-se-x marriages.

      To wit:

      From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, ga-y s-exual activity is still mutual mas-turbation caused by one or more complex s-exual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.
      Yes, heteros-exuals practice many of the same "moves" but there is never a doubt who is the female and who is the male.

      As noted, there are basic biological differences in gay unions vs. heterose-xual marriage. Government benefits are the same in both but making the distinction is important for census data and for social responses with respect to potential issues with disease, divorce and family interactions.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Paul

      According to fred it is o.k. to discriminate against someone based on the choices they makes so I say we ban Christianity, after all it is only a choice.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • fred

      Bottyfunk
      Being "normal" is a clinical term that does not apply on the streets. Anal sex is not the designed function of the anus by evolved physiology. Anal sex is not the normal or functional use of the colon or anus.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • fred

      Paul
      It is a sin to look negatively at another. The sin is sexual lusts and desires which leads to rejection of God. Orientation is not a sin while treating others (Christians) as less than oneself is sin.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • sam

      fred...you're hilarious. Pathetic, to the point of laughability.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Russ

      Sin comes in many forums. We must steal ourselves to defend against it.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • sam

      LOL Russ, that was perfect.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:42 pm |
    • fred

      mama k
      Orientation is not a choice you know that. Sandusky may not have been acting out of choice either. This is a broken world and the Bible explains why it is broken and what to do about that. Jesus came to redeem the lost and that is what faith is all about. If we excuse the choice of a risky lifestyle or abuse of boys we miss the point. Sin points us towards the need for redemption. If we have no sin we do not need a savior or saving.
      God understands orientation and Sandusky much better than we ever could. God allowed both and allows the soul to fully reveal itself as given not as one would have it or imagine it. Sandusky made bad choices hurtful choices and will be held accountable as will I should I make choices that bring pain based on orientation. That is life and can reveal the hope and the light or run in dark circles.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      fred wrote:
      Bottyfunk
      Being "normal" is a clinical term that does not apply on the streets. A.nal s.ex is not the designed function of the a.nus by evolved physiology. A.nal s.ex is not the normal or functional use of the colon or a.nus.

      ah yes, the "normal" debate. you're taking this to a different realm, but i'll humor you. btw, lol @ "apply on the streets"
      the experts are saying there is nothing wrong with being g.ay. i know you don't like hearing that, but that's what they're saying in a nutshell. that being g.ay is "normal."

      is use of the mouth on g.enitalia to produce o.rgasm "normal?" or by hand m.anipulation? yet it's a regular or "normal" part of straight s.ex lives. more straight people engage in oral and m.asturb.atory s.ex than don't. so that's pretty "normal" in our society. just like a.nal s.ex is "normal" in g.ay male s.ex (though not in lesbian s.ex.) but a.nal s.ex also becoming much more the norm in straight s.ex lives, too. my fiance and i had a.nal s.ex two days ago and we're straight. so when more straight people are having a.nal s.ex than aren't, will you think it's "normal?"

      your arguments are childish. ears are made to have earrings, so are you against earrings? hands aren't made to type on computer keyboards, so are you against keyboards? humans weren't made to fly, so are you against airplanes? lol. silly.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:49 pm |
    • Saraswati

      You can explain to the likes of fred the difference between conselnsual adult relationships and molesting children until you're blue in the face but they will never get it. Some people need the world to be simple and unless they can make a radical leap to another simple system of thought they aren't going to change.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • sam

      Some people are just flat out simple, Sara. fred may not even have the capacity to think differently.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • mama k

      fred, first sentence – OK. second sentence – not helpful. After that – you're in la la land again trying to fix the world. Well, just remember what's coming and what country you live in while you run around with those thoughts. It might be better for you to start thinking about how you're going to work with the new "world order" you previously mentioned, that is already here, by the way.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • fred

      Bootyfunk
      ok, I don't see how anal sex is normal for you. It was abnormal. If you do it a bunch it is still abnormal

      May 14, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
    • mama k

      a reply from fred copied from page 17 – I think this helps put some perspective on fred's position:

      mama k: “ is this your experience at one location in the U.S. or more?”

      fred: Two locations not inner city mostly middle class.

      mama k: “Should I assume that you are dealing with other problems besides those involving hom-ose-xuals?”

      fred: [ "Hom-ose-xual issues were less than 10% and the other issues were drugs/ alcohol, se-x, anger, food addictions, orientation in that order. These were mostly people looking for help from God to get out of their brokenness. They all had some prior knowledge or life experience with Christianity." ]

      May 14, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • Madtown

      Jesus came to redeem the lost and that is what faith is all about.
      ----–
      For everyone, or only those who have heard of Jesus and have the ability to follow his teachings?

      May 14, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
    • fred

      Madtown
      God (Jesus) will and does reveal the promise of eternal life to those souls that were called from the beginning of the earth. If you never heard of Jesus or God and never had the opportunity to reject God consider yourself blessed since you are only held accountable for what you were given

      May 14, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • mama k

      fred – do you personally know any homosexual couples that are happy and devoted to each other?

      May 14, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
    • midwest rail

      " since you are only held accountable for what you were given..."
      Can you show me where it says that in the bible ?

      May 14, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • Madtown

      If you never heard of Jesus or God and never had the opportunity to reject God
      -----–
      The exceptional irony in your statement, is that had you been born in Egypt you'd be a full-on muslim, and would consider christians to follow a false God. You'd probably still think you have it all correct, but your perspective would be very different. Interesting, isn't it?

      May 14, 2013 at 4:17 pm |
    • fred

      mama k
      Yes I do know many ,one was my roomate in College the others have been friends for many years.

      May 14, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
    • fred

      Madtown
      There is a distinct difference between one who has a heart inclined towards God and one who does not. The Bible says God will sort that out.

      May 14, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • fred

      midwest rail
      Luke 12:48
      But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

      May 14, 2013 at 4:40 pm |
    • Madtown

      fred
      There is a distinct difference between one who has a heart inclined towards God and one who does not.
      ------
      You seem to be drawing an equality with "God" and "christianity", with God being the God of christianity, or the 2 terms being equal. I say they are 2 distinct and independent terms. You don't need christianity to believe in God, heck...you don't need any religion to believe in God. That's my point, had you been born in Egypt, you'd still believe in God, and follow God. It's just that the details of how you followed God would be different, because you lived in a different culture with a different perspective on God. It's still "God".

      May 14, 2013 at 4:49 pm |
    • Alison Tschains

      @fred "There is a distinct difference between one who has a heart inclined towards God and one who does not. The Bible says God will sort that out."

      Got a feeling he'll find you wanting, fred.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
    • fred

      Madtown
      Yes, God simply "is" and we receive revalations of God in various ways and times.

      May 14, 2013 at 5:40 pm |
    • fred

      Alison Tschains
      No doubt about that. The longer I live the more I am aware of my shortcommings

      May 14, 2013 at 5:43 pm |
    • ChrisJoe

      Arcane religion follower stuck in his shell.

      May 14, 2013 at 7:03 pm |
    • Madtown

      Yes, God simply "is" and we receive revalations of God in various ways and times
      ------
      Great, then there's no "correct" religion. Everyone is worshipping God, as they understand him to be.

      May 14, 2013 at 7:47 pm |
    • fred

      Madtown
      The truth is soiled by the nature of man and so you are correct that no religion gets it right as people worship as they understand God. That is how God set the plan up in a creative feat only God can grasp. The creation bubbles with evil and good driven by the knowledge of good and evil that soiled our pure soul in the very beginning. Given Gods perfect goodness the end result is a creation that reflects all the goodness possible at which time evil will be separated. If you are from a farm the cream rises to the top so it can be separated. If you are a scientist you know evolution refines physiology such that which is not necessary for life is diminished.
      The Living Word of God never fails to reveal the attitude of the heart that reads it. The Word of God is revealed in your heart not the lines written in the Bible by man.

      May 14, 2013 at 8:04 pm |
    • Reality

      A Summary for the 21st Century:

      The Apostles' Creed 2013 (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
      ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen
      (References used are available upon request.)

      May 14, 2013 at 11:27 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      fred, Do you think that heterosexuals do not have oral and anal sex? So the purpose of the orifice seems somewhat irrelevant.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:32 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      fred "That is how God set the plan up in a creative feat only God can grasp. "

      Explain again how you grasped it.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
  15. Bootyfunk

    "Gay Christian" isn't an oxymoron the same way "Greenpeace whaler hunters" aren't an oxymoron.

    May 14, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
  16. lionlylamb

    As the world does turn seemingly slowly, the person's intellectual recognitions are slow to be formulated. What once was viewed is now viewed differently and will so become changed in time's futures until a finalized rationalism is made wholesome to one's ego, the psychic reservoir of emotional spiritualism, the soulfulness of recognizable perceptivities

    Believe whatever one wants. For, it makes no less difference to God and God’s godly believers. They are of one faith torn apart by many differing types of faithfulness issues. Believers need to put down their books and lean towards a sense of willingness to ponder today's Life equations.

    Still, the kingdom domains of God are written to be located inside our bodies and yet do the majorities stay silent in this fact. It is also written that our bodies are Godly buildings in which the godly with God do live in and they keep relative systemic order inside our body/building.

    With so many inner space places to be filled by this earth's living numbers when they die, why should one look elsewhere for God's kingdom domains? This worldly family of all Life forms and formations are but from one celled family of a c c u m u l a t e d dissensions. As one cell being our earliest beginning, evolution, the processes of mitigating a sense of cellular order to from beginning moments to ending finalities resulted in mankind's finalized celestial ascension within this world's "Life Tree of Cellular Cosmologies".

    Christians don't hate the sensually trodden upon. They feel sorry about this world's W h o r e d o m ways and many ever losing sight, lusting in the animalistic pleasures of man with man and woman with woman. Their intellectually invented sensualistic escapades come on as being threatening towards many a child's upbringing.

    True, mostly all Christians see with little cognitive perceptivity regarding social trends around human animalisms of sensualist variations. For the W h o r e d o m ways of trendy animalistic perversions within mankind are wrought full of the depraved and lost ones seeking ever the instinctual rather than the mental bridges within the mutually conscientious kindred's of high social moorings.

    The W h o r e d o m domains of mankind will always be among us. Live with it rather than live against it.

    May 14, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
    • sam stone

      speaking for god, are ya LL?

      May 14, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
    • Dippy

      It's whoredom, idiot, not w h o r e d o m.

      May 14, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      sam stone,

      Does my desire for becoming an seasoned 'oracle' offend?

      May 14, 2013 at 3:59 pm |
    • G to the T

      Offend? No. But your sentance structure and word choices could certainly reduce the amount of confusion around your posts. Odd that... I thought Lucifer was the author of confusion but you seem to be doing a pretty good job...

      May 17, 2013 at 10:40 am |
  17. Chad

    @saraswati "... People only have to be a smidgeon smarter than those they're talking to to have the potential to be convincing."

    =>cant believe what I am reading!
    criticism from a determinist?

    that makes you immoral, right?

    Determinism – which holds that our behavior is determined by prior causes in the same way that the motion of an object through space is determined by prior causes – says that a person could not have acted differently. The laws of physics determine the motion of every electron, proton, and neutron on our body, meaning that they determine the motion of the body itself. There is no free will. It is never the case that an agent could have overthrown these laws of physics and done something else.

    Therefore, it is never the case that an agent ought to have done something else. Any claim that they ought to have is false – built on this false assumption that humans have a supernatural capacity to overthrow the laws of physics.

    May 14, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Why would Chad expect a determinist not to do or say what was predetermined he would do or say? Obviously, a determinist is going to say or do what was already determined. Stupid Chad.

      May 14, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Chad

      because I am not a determinist 🙂

      May 14, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • Chad

      But I am stupid, thanks.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      Yes, you are, to ask a determinist why he would do something. And also to believe in free will when many verses in the bible express that there is none.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Chad

      @Cpt. Obvious "Yes, you are, to ask a determinist why he would do something"
      @Chad "I am not a determinist, I believe that even people who purport to believe they are determinists have free will.
      As such, I am free to ask someone what their justification is for their action. As a believer in free will, I have a coherent position in that respect.

      On the other hand, a determinist does not have a coherrent position. They claim to believe that there is no free will, so the person being criticized could not have done anything else. As such, the criticism is immoral.

      ===
      @Cpt. Obvious "And also to believe in free will when many verses in the bible express that there is none."
      @Chad "sounds like you are confused on the docritine of predestination.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • Paul

      Capt, if the bible didn't say conflicting things about pretty much everything how could Chad interpret it to mean exactly what he wants it to mean?

      May 14, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
    • Paul

      To believe in a god who knows everything you are going to do before you are born, and at the same time believe you have free will is not exactly coherent position.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • Chad

      @Paul "To believe in a god who knows everything you are going to do before you are born, and at the same time believe you have free will is not exactly coherent position."

      =>it is when one considers that God is not bound by the serial progression of our time/space.
      You can claim the bible is nonsense, but you cant claim that it is inconsistent with free will. The bible states that God exists outside of time, and can (in essence) "time travel forward" to see what we has resulted from the execution of our free will.

      An ent ity not bound by our time space is not bound by our time space..

      May 14, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
    • Saraswati

      This looks like the third place Chad has posted this same thing and it looks just as ignorant each time. No Chad, I'm not going to answe your foolishness in three separate places.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Russ

      Chad it is dangerous to speak of god having absolute power over time. That can eliminate causal responsibility.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Gary

      WTF is "causel responsibility"???

      May 14, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Paul

      Chad, you are free to believe that, but it has always amazed me that anyone over the age of 5 would fall for that one.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @Chad

      We've already seen this song and dance before. You say all atheists are determinists (eventhough you know that to be false). You wait for an atheist to point that out and then fall into your position that being a determinist automatically invalidates the nebulous idea of "free will". You refuse to actually discuss the difference between physical free will (are we able to have a certain degree of control over our subconcious mind?) and theological free will (Are we predestined or determined to do something or do we have free will to choose our own path).

      You then turn a blind eye to the incoherent position of having a god who can time travel and see the result of a "choice" you made and then go back and pretend like that initial choice will still somehow turn out differently.

      You base this all on the assumption that humans have a soul and when challenged with this it gets blown up into the broader issue of "does the supernatural exist?" which you equivocate (which is incidentally the word of the day today) the origin of the universe to be a supernatural event.

      You have pages and pages of dicussions with the atheist du jour that you deign to talk to (Whether it be me, ME II, Saraswati, etc...) and then when you finally run away after being thouroughly trounced, you begin again, on a different page and refuse to address the atheist that just word ra.ped you.

      Considering we all know this game, why do you keep on playing? Why do you keep embarrassing yourself day in and day out on the same discussion points? I'm seriously asking here because we all know the definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result), so I'm very serious when I ask, are you insane?

      May 14, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Ken

      Chad
      "You can claim the bible is nonsense, but you cant claim that it is inconsistent with free will."

      But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses. Exodus 9:12

      So, free will except when God chooses to make you do something against your will?

      Also, you might say that we all have free will to accept God, or not, but when the guy is supposedly helping only certain people believe in him by working some "sign", or miracle in their lives, isn't that interfering with free will? It certainly makes it an uneven playing field, something that any judge, or referee wouldn't consider doing within any game that they plan on officiating fairly.

      May 14, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
    • Typical Christian

      The bible does say we have free will, as long as you ignore all of the parts where it says we don't have free will.

      May 14, 2013 at 4:16 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Oh, Chad, you idiot..

      Yes, you're an idiot to ask someone who does not believe in the exact free will that you do to answer a question based on your values and not their own values.

      That you are forced to disagree with the bible on free will and determinism is obvious, because every bible believer must disagree with the bible since it states both things that can't possibly both be true. You've got as much an argument against the non-free-will folks as they have against you free-will folks. Your bible is fvcked up forcing you to be a hypocrite in either case. What a stupid god.

      May 14, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
    • G to the T

      Quantum indeterminancy – there. That was easy. It's not possible to map out every possible variable down to a sub-atomic level. Sometimes effects happen without (at least obvious) cause at that level. Plenty of wiggle room for the idea of free will (a concept which never appears in the bible).

      May 17, 2013 at 10:42 am |
  18. Fact

    Nearly 100% of Americans agree that Americans can't agree on anything 100%. That is why most Americans have decided to decide for themselves where to privately place their privates.

    May 14, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • lol??

      Dog licenses and marriage licenses are needed of course. Not God approved.

      May 14, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      god's approval is just a "made in taiwan" stamp.

      May 14, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
  19. Matt

    "When ESPN commentator Chris Broussard was criticized for saying that openly gay NBA player Jason Collins was “openly rebelling against God,” some evangelicals argued that conservative theological views are no longer tolerated in America."

    That's right, they ARE no longer tolerated in America. When your views oppress others, it's unacceptable. As a country, we're starting to realize that. Now gtfo.

    May 14, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • lol??

      Yeah, that was a silly comment to make about someone already given up.

      May 14, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      agreed, Matt.
      lol? misses the fifties when uppity black people couldn't vote.

      May 14, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
  20. HeavenSent

    Stupid atheists believing that satan is king and God a peasant. Only Jesus can give you an eternal life of happiness in His Kingdom, which is Heaven. My camel-toe blew a .08 but the truck was pushed out. If your mission in life is other than loving and believing in Him, you are on the wrong track.

    Amen.

    May 14, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • Jim

      neither God or Satan exist so no, we don't believe that crap and you prove once again to be a dishonest liar.

      May 14, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
    • sam

      Stop trying to hide liquor in your camel toe, HS!

      May 14, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • Science

      It is sort of fun HS ...................watching Chad chase the devil's tail though !

      Over ...............you know HS ?

      May 14, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      sowwy, both satan AND god are made up fictional characters in badly written stories.

      here's a fun fact:
      number of people killed by:
      Satan = 10
      God = millions

      who's the more evil of the two...?

      May 14, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
    • AB

      You worry me booty.

      May 14, 2013 at 4:38 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent, never to be the best that Jesus wants her to be.

      May 15, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.