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May 11th, 2013
10:00 PM ET
My Take: ‘Gay Christian’ is not an oxymoron
By Justin Lee, Special to CNN (CNN)–In high school, I was a Christian know-it-all. My nickname was "God boy," and I was known for regularly preaching at my friends about social issues of the day. I dismissed their objections - and accusations of homophobia - as intolerance for my faith. "I'm just telling you what God's Word says," I'd argue. Years later I realized my mistake. What my peers most objected to wasn't my beliefs - it was my condescending attitude. I debated and preached when I should have listened. I thought that stating my position loudly and unyieldingly was a sign of strength. In the process, I alienated my friends. I'm still an evangelical Christian, but one thing is now crystal clear to me. American evangelicals' bad reputation isn't just because of what we believe. It's mostly because of how we behave. When ESPN commentator Chris Broussard was criticized for saying that openly gay NBA player Jason Collins was “openly rebelling against God,” some evangelicals argued that conservative theological views are no longer tolerated in America. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter But they're missing the point. Broussard's language didn't just express a religious view about sexual morality; it referred to gay people in ways that were dehumanizing, reducing all gay people's lives to a single sex act. Other outspoken Christians routinely say even worse things, comparing gay people to pedophiles, for example. No one is immune from criticism in a free country with diverse beliefs. But if Christians feel particularly singled out at times, I'd argue that our perceived lack of empathy for others is largely to blame. I can often test a Christian's level of empathy by offering a single admission: When I was 18, I realized that I'm gay. Empathetic Christians are typically intrigued by such a statement, even if they also question how a conservative Southern Baptist could also be openly gay. They want to know about my struggles, how my family and church responded, and whether I ever feel my faith and sexuality are at odds with one another. I love these questions, because they show that the other person genuinely sees me as a human being. But far too often, Christians respond not with curiosity and questions but with politics and preaching. They quote Bible passages at me, make assumptions about my faith, or tell me why they’re opposed to same-sex marriage. I'm no longer a person to them; I'm a symbol of a culture war. A battlefield. And when I don't want to be treated that way, they assume I'm turning away because I didn't really want to hear the truth. This kind of behavior is why so many of my LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) friends want nothing to do with the church. But it's not only them. In my book, "Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate," I share the story of Cindy, a conservative evangelical mom whose life was thrown into turmoil when her son told her he was gay. This wasn't a political question for Cindy; it was a personal one. But the dehumanizing rhetoric about gay people she heard from the pulpit made her afraid to talk to anyone at church about her son's sexuality. Christians are not a monolithic group. I know many empathetic Christians, including many who speak up regularly for their LGBT brothers and sisters. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories The loudest megaphones do not speak for the rest of us, but they are still loud, and legion. To them I say: Gay people are not an issue. We're people. Some of us are Christians, too. And if it disturbs you that I refer to myself as both gay and Christian, I invite you to take the time to get to know me, and read what I write. You don't have to agree, and you might think I’m a sinner, but at least you’ll see me as a human being. Baptist minister and author Tony Campolo quips that Jesus entreated Christians not to "love the sinner and hate the sin," but to "love the sinner and hate your own sin." Jesus saved his harshest words for the self-righteously devout and chose the outcasts and sinners as his closest friends. Perhaps a lesson in Jesus-style humility might do us all some good. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Justin Lee. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor’s note: Justin Lee is the Executive Director of the Gay Christian Network and author of
Is it not written to "Seek first the kingdom (domains) of God? If so, stop your lollygagging with bogus religious perceptivities few will ever believe and search the good book for the whereabouts of God's kingdom domains. Too much 'leg work'? Here, let me give you two verses of scripture that I dare stand firmly upon.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom (domain) of God is within (inside) you.
1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.
Until all or many of ongoing generations can fathom the inner workings of 'atomic' relationships being very similar to our stellar relations. High societies will ever lead the social 'band wagons' while never as yet, taking a good, 'let's see' toward quantum spatial relationships of the inner and outer chasms of the atomic and stellar spectroscopies similarities. The innerness chasms of atomic perceptions are yet veiled in secrecies.
Likewise, our astronomical observances of stellar cartographies stances upon the reasoning that said 'universe' is only 16 or so billion years old, is not justifications for the 'universe' we find being but one small part of the overall relativities of spatial cosmologies too far away from our spatial centrality which is earth. The Hubble space telescope took a time lapse picture of total blackness and did in time reveal there to be thousands of galaxies never before seen! Imagine one taking a greater time lapse picture with an even bigger space telescope! Space therefore is not relative to our perceptions of time. Space is infinite and infinitely beyond our feeble measuring!
LL is the belief blog pseudo intellect, don't bother reading their posts just laugh and move on to another post.
" ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building."
I told you before LL, it's not good to hold all that stuff in – have some prunes before bedtime if necessary.
Religious people are the best argument against religion.
I always love seeing the nincompoops with "God Hates Fags" signs on the street corners. They are creating atheists far better than atheists ever could.
Sad Floppy,
"For the wicked [man without God] boasts of his heart's desire; he blesses the greedy and renounces the Lord. The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts." Psalm 10:3-4 (i.e. no God-shaped void)
Amen.
Is it not written, "lionlylamb make zero sense?" Yea, it is verily so.
Clue to the clueless: Flinging biblical diarrhetoric at people who think the Bible is idiotic and ridiculous, well, it's just not as effective as you think.
"I do not like green eggs and ham.
"I do not like it, Sam-I-Am."
Amen
write up a post that makes sense
go to AltaVista.com
choose english to korean
put your post into the english side
hit translate
now take that new translation and translate it to several other languages
translate it back to english
now post it on CNN belief blog
congratulations, you can post just like Lionylamb!
Lol...do you think that's what he does, Booty?
Space as we can perceive it is not infinite...we have seen to the edges of our universe...what if anything lies beyond is still a mystery.
mama k,
What I really need is to have 3 or 4 glasses of milk to relieve me, not prunes. Milk goes right thru me!
In subtleness for wanting to be expressive in ways, visionaries of today's measuring do nary dare tread; becomes my Word. I love my embodiment's God and all God's families and brethren and maids and servants living inside me just the same ways your body is inhabited by a different God's families, brethren, maids and servants.
"...becomes my Word."
Why the random capitalization of 'word'?
Lionly
I don't know what you have inside you but if you are human, your human cells only make up 10% of the total cells in and on your body. That leaves the other 90% of cells as aliensYour human cells are much larger than all of the microbes and bacteria, so make up the lions ( or lionly lambs) share of the weight.
The cells that are not human generally would fill 1/2 gallon container and weigh around 4 pounds.
You are hosting billions of life forms alien to you, some we have a symbiotic relationship to, others are harmful, and many others are just along for the ride.
I don't know what you think you have in you, but that's the deal with everyone else.
Good luck sleeping tonight while you contemplate that.
Richard Cranium,
My stance upon the spatial voids of outer space being infinite goes beyond our infantile telescopic visualization. Stellar cartographies photograph only at field depths and ranges. In the ever nearing future, astronomy will have created space telescopes with mirror sizes as large as the earth. When this comes, astronomers will be able to focus further out into space way beyond our bias 16 or so billions of years old many think the 'universe is!
We will be able to see so far into space and photograph distant galaxies which we are now unable to photograph due to small mirrors limiting our depth and range perceptions.
As I said...we have already seen to the edges of the universe. We know where this universe ends...we can already see it. We do not know if there is anything beyond.
I would refer you to all of the data that we have that ultimately proved the Big Bang. We know exactly how big our playground is.
Richard Cranium,
You are biased if you think we have seen all there is to be seen within all spatial relatives. The verbal malarkey giving a 'dead end' to the infinity of outer space seems case hardened and socially denes and perversely block headed. Astronomers can only see into outer space depths with their telescopic range abilities which today is limited by mirror size.
The Sad Floppy Life of Cluckles the Boneless Chicken, you posted "Clue to the clueless: Flinging biblical diarrhetoric at people who think the Bible is idiotic and ridiculous, well, it's just not as effective as you think."
Answer: For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Galatians 5:17
Amen.
liony
Most telescopes do not have mirrors. They are radio telescopes, not visual light.
"Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money!"
– George Carlin
Arthur Bryant does not exist.
Blessed [is] the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Proverbs 8:34
Amen.
Richard Cranium,
Radio telemetry is not a mainstay regarding telescopic cartographies. As time traverses on, our telescopic instrumentations will much improve and we will be able to visualize ever further into the unlimited chasms of the infinitely spatial. Just on accounts with believing case hardened issues of biased theories regarding the never ending infinity of outer space chasms keeps many folks from a basic understanding of space being infinite and never ending. Keep on believing in a finite universe if you wish. I've long ago outgrown such feeble mindedness brought about by science's inabilities to rationalize the very infinity of outer space being a never ending story.
Why on earth would any gay person or any female want to be part of Christianity? The Bible was written by men, with parts written with the purpose of subjugating women and discriminating against others.
i've thought that a million times myself.
the short answer is:
it's hard to escape cult mentality. you will find a way to justify your position so you can still be a part of the cult.
Having your entire childhood dedicated to indoctrinating you into the Borg would be very hard to transcend. It takes a long time to achieve authenticity when you have been so heavily brainwashed.
Fetch
It’s a choice and a disgusting one at that. I don’t care what anybody says.
But enough about Christianity, let’s discuss the gay issue….
LOL!
Colin, you had me for a second. i started reading and literally thought, "did someone jack Colin's handle?"
nice one.
Hey BF. Sorry dude, couldn't resist.
It can happen, I managed to escape Hobbitism , but I still have those big ugly feet.
Gay pride is but a socially deviancy to win emancipation and declare to the world that sodomy exists and will not go away on its own merits. For as w h o r e d o m s go, many a sodomite is at their best whenever they exalt and over inflate their inbred socialite egos making the crowds go wild!
r a n d o m
w o r d s
LL is the belief blog pseudo intellect, don't bother reading their posts just laugh and move on.
hindus deniers of truth absolute of human life are crying out to legitimize, hindu hind love ism, way of of hindu primates, ignorant self centered by nature as a human norm, limit. One has to be hindu secular, ignorant self centered to recognize their hindu atheist, ignorant self centered way of life as legit.
Someone thinks they can legitimize Islam as the foundation of the US government. Good luck with that. lol.
Let's see, he ranted against gays, then realized he was one.
He must have posted here under the name "Douglas".
You can be pretty sure you invented God in your image when it turns out he hates all the same people you do.
It is very helpful to have your super invisobuddy say it's okay to hate who you want to hate.
"listen, guys, i don't want to hate you - but my God does. he gets super angry when we don't do what he says. so sorry, i hate you."
No one invented truth absolute GOD, but every one is subordinated to truth absolute GOD, hindu secular s, ignorant s , dumb, deaf and blind self centered have to follow HIM, every second of their life.
i feel sorry for this guy. he has enough strength to reject the h.omophobia of the bible, but still accepts the other ignorance offered by that book.
I see from some of the comments and questions that some still don't have a basic education about homosexuality. Muslims lead the way as having the most disenfranchising stance toward gays. But many Christians are not far behind. Just last week CNN reported some gays being arrested in Zambia which is a predominantly Christian nation.
Christianity has always been conflicted on social issues, but this current hot topic really highlights the extremism within Christianity. One sect calls homosexuality an abomination while the next one (over four million members) in the same denomination is already performing gay marriage. Thomas Jefferson hit the nail on the head over 200 years ago:
Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
(from Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)
Some claim that Christianity and science are not incompatible, yet we find many who continue to ignore current scientific knowledge on the issue of homosexuality. Is the problem poor education, steadfastness to one's own flavor of biblical interpretation, or both?
Whatever your religion, whatever your belief, with gay marriage coming quickly to the U.S., now is the time to at least have a basic education about homosexuality.
The following is long, but note the quote from Professor MIchael King below in the section on psychology.
=========================================================
Psychology
The American Psychological Association states "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people", and says most people's sexual orientation is determined at an early age. Research into how sexual orientation in males may be determined by genetic or other prenatal factors plays a role in political and social debates about homosexuality, and also raises concerns about genetic profiling and prenatal testing."
Professor Michael King states: "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."
The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:
"Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice."
Biology
The following is from the article:
Homosexuality ultimately a result of gene regulation, researchers find (12/11/2012 – LiveScience)
[ The search for a "gay gene" may be off-target, new research finds. Another process called epigenetics that switches genes on and off may explain why homosexuality runs in families.
Epigenetics are heritable changes caused by factors other than DNA. Instead of traits getting passed down through the genes, epigenetic change happens because of the way genes are regulated, or turned on and off.
These genetic regulators may be the reason homosexuality persists in nature despite the fact that gay people are less likely to reproduce, suggests the new study published in the journal The Quarterly Review of Biology.
"These things have evolved because they're good for the parents, but they sometimes, not [with] high frequency, but sometimes carry over" into offspring, study researcher William Rice, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, told LiveScience. In a male fetus, Rice and his colleagues write, an epigenetic change that benefited the mother may lead to "feminization" of sexual preference — homo- or bisexuality. The same may be true for epigenetic changes passed down by dad to a female fetus. (The terms feminization and masculinization of sexual preference refer to sexual orientation only — not to physical or personality traits of the offspring.)
The findings add to past research suggesting gay men haven't died out, because female relatives of gay men tend to have more children on average than other females. The study researchers specifically found that two genes passed on through the maternal line could produce this effect.
Hormones, epigenetics and orientation
Rice and his colleagues focused on epi-marks, which are molecular changes that act like temporary "switches" to turn genes on and off. If a gene is a blueprint, the epi-mark is the construction foreman who makes sure the product gets built. An epi-mark also determines when, where and how much a gene is expressed, according to the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis.
These molecular switches are usually erased very early in the developmental process, but they can be passed down from generation to generation, too, Rice said.
Some epi-marks are particularly important during fetal development, when they promote normal physical development in the sexes despite natural variations in testosterone during pregnancy. Researchers know that fetal exposure to too much testosterone can masculinize the genitals, brain or behavior of a genetically female fetus. Likewise, too little testosterone can make a genetically male fetus more feminized.
But here's the catch: There's lots of overlap between the levels of testosterone male and female fetuses get exposed to. That means there must be another side to the story, Rice and his colleagues wrote.
That side appears to be epigenetics, Rice said.
"Early in development, we think these epi-marks are laid down so that girl fetuses will be relatively insensitive to testosterone and male fetuses will be relatively sensitive to testosterone," Rice said.
Biological behavior
Thus, if an epi-mark that kept a mother from getting exposed to high testosterone in development gets passed on to her son — the opposite sex — it could desensitize him to testosterone, contributing to his sexual preference for men. Similarly, if a male-specific epi-mark from dad gets passed to a daughter, it could "masculinize" her sexual preference, making her more interested in women.
These findings could explain why twin studies show that homosexuality runs in families, but no "gay gene" can be found, Rice said. In identical twins, there's about a 20 percent chance that if one twin is gay, the other will be too. If genetic change were responsible for homosexuality, you'd expect a much higher match, Rice said. Epigenetics, however, can explain the heritability without the need for a specific genetic change.
The hypothesis could be tested by examining epigenetic marks in parents of kids with gay versus straight offspring, Rice said. There are, of course, concerns that this knowledge could be used by parents who want to avoid gay offspring, Rice said, but that concern already exists around certain hormonal conditions in utero, which are known to contribute to an increased chance of offspring being lesbians.
"That cat's already out of the bag," Rice said. He added that an understanding of the biological underpinnings of homosexuality could help emphasize that same-sex behavior is not "unnatural."
"In fact, it's a major part of the natural world," Rice said. Fourteen percent of Western gulls raise chicks in female-female pairs, he pointed out. And 8 percent of male sheep show zero interest in fertile ewes, but get sexually excited by other rams. ]
=========================================================
great post, mama, but Christians hate facts.
And atheist 's hate feeelings
mama k
Answer for you, Christians as hated minority thread, p 104 near bottom 6:21 AM. Tempranillo, got the spelling right this time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRaI7ZOmTr4
I'm not following JMEF – I see that post. ??
mama k
You asked about the deist that was posting, it was me , maybe we were talking at cross purpose?
Oh yes, sorry, JMEF – I did see your answer much later and meant to reply to you, but must have been distracted. Thanks for the explanation there – it does seem there is a lot of common ground between the modern Deist and the agnostic atheist.
mama k
No problem, just think the modern day definition of deism allows one to accept the discoveries of science while allowing one to still not discard the idea of a Creation belief. My categories, anti-theist, theist, agnostic, deist, theist, and theist fanatic, see Chad.
Oops should read...
anti-theist, atheist,
lol – I do understand why you ordered your categories so, JMEF.
One for chad................ he might understand this one !
Tom and Jerry Blast Off to Mars! 2005
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mCQ058IQIY
Oops Austin too.................and his kitty !
Wow! What a very in depth and intelligent way to say "We really don't know". Yeah, this is science.
just being a qu-eer is being a moron oxy got nothing to do with it you cannot be a qu-eer and a Christian
similar to how you can't be Christian and think for yourself.
Bootyfunk, how funny that you don't realize you're just another sheep in the "I'm an Athiest", "I hate Christians", "Science is My God" group. You're just following the herd. Maybe one day your two brain cells will accidentally bump into each other, form an original coherent thought, and you'll put down your crayons and post it. Then we'll REALLY get to see how ignorant you are.
midwest tail
No need to be an expert of language, Google it. Foxymoron is derived from Latin word fauxa morus
Letter F is redundant, has no use in dark matter, and is silent
Vowel O identifies quantification of a dark matter, or noor
Letter X is invented by atheist to show unification with another gentleman, meaning man to man coupling, females are not counted in equation.
Letter y represents will or street desire of a nun.
Letter M represents, essence of Thin Allah or a matter substance, or crap.
Vowel O identifies quantification of a dark matter, like O-ring.
Letter R identifies path or the way of a noun or a dark matter,
Vowel A identifies established unification or quantified unification in path.
Letter N always, no matter what, appears to indicate establishment of a dark matter or a soul.
Foxymoron, The one shrined or qualifitifried, tableized in secular ism, self center ism, and he is none other than a Salafi, Mohammad baba, ignorant self centered, using cover of muslim religion to justify his hindu secular ism, self center ism, goat ism
"90% of Lev. is no longer applicable" So, what you're saying is that god changed his omniscient mind about what is or is not acceptable? Reminds me of one of my former (junior high) girlfriends.
Who had a authority to change it, some hindu oxymoron, ignorant self centered pretending to be god, and hindu ignorant s following him as their hindu sanatan, crook man god?
Christians, embarrassed by the harshness and silliness of the Old Testament, often try to distance themselves from it. of course, this is disingenuous, as Jesus himself says you cannot drop a single letter from the OT. it's understandable why you would want to distance yourself from the fear, guilt and ignorance of the Old Testament, but there's plenty of terrible, disgusting and silliness actions and beliefs expressed in the New Testament, too - it's like comparing two Dr. Seuss books for facts.
My friend, he never accepted Greek Torah as book of Hebrews, but condemned it as a hearsay of Pharisees, goons, seculars, self centered of Egypt, renamed as old testament.
If Jesus had admitted that he was trying to rewrite all the rules, they would have stoned him on the spot.
Nothing of what he said conforms to the OT, that's why he was killed. He was apostate, heretic, fraud.
nothing of what he said except his commands to follow it?
Death meant nothing to him, and he would have care less of threat to his life, because he knew HIM better than any one else, truth absolute GOD. He preached and lived by nothing else, but way of truth absolute GOD, having no respect for, in hindu secular ism, ignorant self center ism, in denial of truth absolute GOD, foundation of American consti tution.
@bippyfink
nope
State any where in 4 gospels, he clearly orders his dispels to accept Greek Torah, book to follow as a True Torah and live by it.
He did everything he could to hijack Judaism, to poach every follower by saying he was the only one who could intercede with Yahweh, that the priests in the Temple were not needed.
Explain how that stuff fits in the OT? You can't. It doesn't. He just said it won't pass away, not that everyone should follow the current orthodoxy based upon the OT and Maimonaides' fraudulent exclamations as most Jews were doing at the time.
He just said that to keep from getting stoned to death or arrested and executed.
If you look for orthodoxy in what is attributed to him, you will find nothing.
He did more than just form a splinter group, he formed an apostate cult from the original.
He stayed on the run with his 12 minyan-required disciples until one of them turned him in. He was guilty.
He had espoused communism, put himself forth as a Jewish messiah and son of Yahweh, re-interpreted everything in the OT his own way, and did his best to convert other unemployed Jews like himself to his own personality cult.
Had he been in charge of an army, I have no doubt he would have been busy committing atrocities throughout the area.
In fact, he taught the opposite of so many OT rules that it was just a matter of time before the Levite priests caught him and had him executed for violating their religious laws. He was clearly insane.
jesus: insane or liar? either is a pretty good explanation.
it always amazes me that someone would want to be in a club that hates them. this author is deluded. born into a cult (christianity), he was told all kinds of crazy things, like g.ays are abomination and should be killed. but instead of rejecting all the crazy, he just rejects the part that points at him.
"I'm still an evangelical Christian, but one thing is now crystal clear to me. American evangelicals' bad reputation isn't just because of what we believe. It's mostly because of how we behave."
wrong. it's what you believe. it's in your rule book. that's g.ays are to be put to death is in the bible, very very clearly. christians usually cherry-pick the bible, leaving out passages that make them uncomfortable or embarrassed. this guy doesn't discuss how he gets past Leviticus, which specifically says g.ays are to be killed. anyone that actually followed the bible would be among the worst serial killer/mass murderers to have ever existed. in order to be a good person you have to ignore the bible, skip it's disgusting commands to kill innocent people, like non-virgin brides, disobedient children and anyone working the weekend.
does this guy believe he is a sinner, an "abomination"? can you imagine what this guy's opinion would be about h.omos.exuals if he wasn't himself g.ay? imagine the hatred and intolerance he would spew - kind of like his friends are doing now? if this guy was straight, he'd be an opponent of g.ays.
Masochists are made, not born. He's obviously a masochist to openly join such a sadistic religion. Sad.
There are many versions of Christianity that do not espouse hatred, that openly and unconditionally love people of all types. We can not take the label "Christian" and use it to paint all who wear it as homophobes and bigots.
That is, I think, at least part of the author's point. You don't get to define for him what he believes. He believes his god loves him just the way he is. He attempts to counteract the hate we often see from others who wear the same label. This is good, in my opinion.
He points out something I've long believed, that it isn't the belief that makes most people dislike Evangelical Christians, after all, this is a free country. Believe what you will. The problem is the behavior, the dismissive (at best) or demonizing (at worst) language that reduces other people to non-human, not important, "other".
It's the belief that shapes the hateful behavior, myweightinwords, so you might as well shut up now and gtfo.
"The problem is the behavior, the dismissive (at best) or demonizing (at worst) language that reduces other people to non-human, not important, "other"."
It could be the reason people go extreme in Christianity is so they can feel better about themselves and their lives, that need to feel "special." It's why their condescending attitudes carry over to others that don't believe in their version of religion or reality.
@myweightinwords
There are many versions of Christianity that do not espouse hatred, that openly and unconditionally love people of all types. We can not take the label "Christian" and use it to paint all who wear it as h.omophobes and bigots.
*** nice try to get around the bible. the bible says g.ays are abomination and to be put to death. that's in the rule book. because christians do NOT follow the bible makes them better people - but not better chrisitans. they are being good people not by following the bible, but by ignoring it.
That is, I think, at least part of the author's point. You don't get to define for him what he believes. He believes his god loves him just the way he is. He attempts to counteract the hate we often see from others who wear the same label. This is good, in my opinion.
*** it's great that he attempts to counteract the hate, and i agree he is doing that. but he's asserting the bible doesn't express hatred toward g.ays - which is wrong. it does, very clearly. i'm glad he ignores the messages of hatred and bigotry in the bible - but that doesn't mean they aren't there, which is what this author is pretending. he is free to describe himself as he will - and i'm free to describe him as i wish, too. it's great he's trying to counteract the hate of his religious cult - but he'd be much better off leaving the cult and thinking for himself - then he wouldn't have to worry about God considering him abomination and burning in hell for his normal s.exual desires.
He points out something I've long believed, that it isn't the belief that makes most people dislike Evangelical Christians, after all, this is a free country. Believe what you will. The problem is the behavior, the dismissive (at best) or demonizing (at worst) language that reduces other people to non-human, not important, "other".
*** no, the problem is being a member of a religion that is so very h.omophobic. the problem is that even though christianity has a rule book saying he should die, he will justify/ignore it so that he can still be a member of the cult. you think the problem is 'dismissive' and 'demonizing' language? what a joke. the problem is the terrible bigotry and h.omophobia christianity has caused, the misery and suicides religion has caused, the terrible self-loathing it has caused. i can't imagine how hard this guy has struggled and still obviously does because he can't think for himself.
@battyf-uck
nope
nope is false
midwest rail
No need to be an expert of language.
Vowel o identifies quantification of a matter,
Letter X is invented to show unification, meaning tide to, coupled with.
Letter y represents will or desire of a noun.
Letter M represents, essence of choice of a person or a matter.
Vowel O identifies quantification of a matter.
Letter R identifies path or the way of a noun or a matter,
Vowel A identifies established or quantified in path.
Letter N always appears to indicate establishment of a matter or a noun.
Oxymoron, The one enshrined or quantified, established in secular ism, self center ism, and he is none other than a hindu atheist, ignorant self centered, using cover of religion to justify his hindu secular ism, self center ism,
"gay coitus is a sin in the Bible."
coitus definition
sexual intercourse, especially between a man and a woman.
LOL! Douglas you are such a moron.
I'm afraid your assertions are correct, "LOL!". "Douglas" is, in fact, a moron.
OK...sodomy is a sin and a deadly and dangerous practice.
Thanks for clarifying the sin for all of us.
Much appreciated!
–Douglas
"sodomy"
You are still a moron because the definition of sodomy also includes oral and annal sex by heterosexuals. LOL!
"sodomy is a sin"
There is no way I am giving up blow jobs at all dude! Oral sex is what allows people to orgasm. Those wet lips surrounding the shaft with the tongue doing it's thing....ohhhhhhh.....ahhhhhh...come on Douglas you know you want it.
Troll heaven ...........for doogie and fred i guess !
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/26/mormon-church-satisfied-with-boy-scouts-possibly-lifting-gay-youth-ban/#comments
Doug: Did the blow up doll deny you again? Your ignorance and bigotry are shining bright as always.
For doogie and fred
Scooby Doo on Zombie Island – It's Terror Time Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkNask_pMKo
Doug is too young to buy inflatable dolls. That's why he's all backed-up in his head. Massive sexual frustration is driving him stupidly batty. And where is his mother? It's mothers day today.
Fred, beejays are "oral sodomy", and under Doug's definition, is a sin, also...and no, given the tone of his posts, I don't think he does want it...or ever has. Asexual pops into mind.
I have to wonder if Douglas's hairshirts come in a rainbow of colors?
There are many w h o r e d o m s in all mannerisms of social decadence.
Welcome LGBTQ Chrisitians!
Remember to practice celibacy...gay coitus is a sin in the Bible.
The Bible is the guidebook for Christians growing and maintaining their faith.
Welcome again!
Douglas admitting to pedophilia:
Douglas says:
April 28, 2013 at 9:12 pm
The truth can hurt. It sure does when the boy is on top of me.
Douglas dude just come out of the closet already society will accept you. Stop being afraid.
Just think about the mind blowing sex we could have together, you know you want it. Just ask! Come on now, you have to be getting hard just thinking about it.
Rubbish. Christians can't even agree with one another on this issue. You get your vote, and guess what – you're not batting very good with your nutty ideas from ancient folklore. Gay marriage is a reality for the U.S. and the world, Dougie. Live in a cave in you prefer.
Dot man...
Interesting how you dig up old posts that you fabricated to make them appear as if
I posted them...a contiual tactic by LGBTQ losers on this blog.
The only pedophiles out there are people like you and your gay
allies who want to infiltrate the Boy Scouts so you can have access to young boys
for a chickenhawk meal.
Pound sand...the SCOTUS is going to say thumbs down to the acceptance of gay marriage.
Fornication is and will remain a sin in the United States.
Practice celibacy and your risk of STD/AIDs will diminish rapidly.
"the SCOTUS is going to say thumbs down to the acceptance of gay marriage."
Dream on, DOMA has been found unconstitutional by 8 appellate courts.
"Practice celibacy and your risk of STD/AIDs will diminish rapidly."
They have cured AIDS in a child and in monkeys, it's just a matter of time before the cure is world wide, then Dougie what are you going to use as an excuse for your prejudice and bigotry?
All the more reason to throw that book of silliness away.
It is made up entirely by men.
I there were a god, and it truly were the god (ess) of love, then it would accept you the way you are.
And douglas, there is no such thing as "gay coitus". You are a bigot. trying to make people deny themselves so they can fit into YOUR perverted interpretation of your book of myths.
"Fornication is and will remain a sin in the United States."
No it's not, you hysterical old hag. It's a sin in your narrow, little bitter mind. Fortunately for mentally healthy people, it remains an expression of love between two consenting adults.
And learn the difference between pedophilia and gay already. You lying dolt. You are part of the hate problem towards gay people.
You are stunted in your emotional age, Douglas. You need to grow up, already, and get your mind off of sex, gay or otherwise. You are obsessed, and that CANNOT be good for you.
mama k
Answer for you on Christians as hated minority thread p 104 near bottom 6:21 AM. Hung over from the Temprallino? I find it a little to heavy and stains the teeth and tongue.
" Fornication is and will remain a sin in the United States. "
Most unintentionally funny post of the day. Douglas is losing it.
or, g.ay Christians, you can just leave the church, lead a life free of mind control, and think for yourself.
Nice try at deflection, Douglas. You wrote it, own it and stop with the "you fabricatyed it" nonsense. I suspect it was the one time you posted a truth about yourself. Get help, dude. You need it desperately. Focusing all your attention to what other adults do in the privacy of their own home is borderline psychotic. You never post about anything else here...you are the pervert, thinking about it all the time....not the loving, committed SS couple. Good God, man...grow UP.
Isn't that in Colorado Springs??.
"The only pedophiles out there are people like you and your gay
allies who want to infiltrate the Boy Scouts so you can have access to young boys
for a chickenhawk meal."
So everyone who calls you out on your lies, bigotry, and hatred is a pedophile, when you admitted yourself that you ARE one? You're projecting your own behavior onto others again, you hateful sot. You have done all of those things, not the people on these boards. YOU. You have admitted it, and in your attempts to deny what you are and GET HELP, try to paint all those who support equal rights for all as the bad guys instead of putting the blame for your own thoughts where it belongs: on YOU.
Asshole. I'm not gay, I'm married, but even if I WERE gay, I'd be calling you out on your ignorant behavior and ho.mo.phobia. You are dangerous in your beliefs. Someone should be keeping a very close eye on you to make sure you don't snap and grab a gun in some crowded theater...
"Practice celibacy and your risk of STD/AIDs will diminish rapidly."
Celibacy doesn't work...try telling that to a teenager with raging hormones. Education is the better solution-teaching about safe sex and enabling the use of condoms.
Just another good reason to not be a christian.
Word oxymoron means, one tide to his hindu soul, filthy desire, a hindu secular, ignorant self center, an atheist, religion has nothing to do with his life style, in denial of truth absolute in life, but he is nothing else, but a hindu oxymoron, filthy self centered, by his deeds.
So here's what I don't get in the article, he says at 18 he discovered (decided?) he was gay? I thought you were born that way? Which one is it?
He doesn't say it either way you attribute it. He says he *realized* he was gay. The distinction is significant.
None of those, he decided to live by the way of hindu secular s, ignorant self centered, oximoron after turning 18 to please his hindu lustily soul, desire.
I.F., you clearly have no idea what the word oxymoron means.
Midwest, discovered is a synonym of realized, how did he not know up until that point?
I was attracted to other guys (and never to girls) from puberty, but I believed it was a phase I'd grow out of. I considered myself straight and dated girls, and it wasn't until I was 18 that I finally faced the fact that my attractions weren't changing and that I might be gay. In my book, I go into a lot more detail about that whole experience.
Hmmm – discovered may be a synonym, buy certainly not one that is primary. Why not just post his words as they appear ? Why restate them to suit your narrative ?
"When I was 18, I realized that I'm gay."
That sounds funny. I think if I were him, I would say "When I was 18, I realized that I was gay."
But in any event it's quite normal for someone to have already been questioning their sexuality by that age, and then come to accept the way they were born.
Thank you Justin for your (refreshingly) thoughtful response and clarification. As a believer, I am trying to work through my personal belief and response to this topic, again than you
T 52
Apparently you did not go through puberty.
You may need to take a few lessons in biology to understand the effects of hormones on the human body, and then realize that there are fundamental physiological differences in the male and female brains, and the effects those hormones have on the body and brain. For one with a female brain in a male body or vice-versa it can be EXTREMELY confusing. At that age, many straight people experiment with H0m0$exuality as it can be very confusing to someone with a male body in a male body, or female brain, female body pairing. The hormone levels of pre- through post adolescence is a moving target, and since they can change the way we think, you will see many gay people realize their own$exuality only when the fog of adolescence starts to clear.
My pleasure, Table 52. It can be a challenging and complex subject, so obviously there's way more to be said than can fit in one article (or comments section). If you're interested, this is an ongoing topic of discussion on my blog. I don't think I can link it from here but it's easy to find. It's called "Crumbs from the Communion Table."
My cousin, (may she rest in peace) came out in her 40's...she knew she was gay, but due to the climate of the 60's and the 70's, she didn't acknowledge it, and indeed, married and had a child to suit the idea of what passed for "normal" in those days.
I cannot fathom the pain of having to deny an intrinsic part of one's psyche. I cannot fathom a society that forces one to.
I'm glad we are progressing.
Cranium your condescension is not necessary,...
@Table
don't try to make the issue so black and white, you sound like a child. you can be g.ay, but not 'discover' it until you are older, especially if you're taught being g.ay is wrong, you might reject what you really are for a long time. use your head. think it through for 3 seconds before you post.
I too Akira hope there doesn't come a day when I have to live in fear of my beliefs also.....as evidence in this blog, that could be the future of my faith
Booty boy, not making it black and white, as evidenced by Justin's response to my question, just asking for clarification, and doing it respectfully. You seem to be the one who has to make it an antagonistic conversation, in order to make your point. I am trying to make meaning out of this topic based on informed answers from people who care to solve this....
As Justin recommended there may be other forums that will continue a more respectful dialogue.....
You might even find a blog where you can twist people's words without being called on it. Good luck.
I have profound pity for you rail boy
Unnecessary.
T52
Some condescention is applicable when someone not only asks a stupid question , but changes the quote and inserts a word with a very different meaning , changing the authors meaning.
I did not know if you were a 10 year old either, so the statement was certainly a possibility.
And how is Table 52 not a restaurant, when it is in Chicago. If there is geographic location, ti is not very well known.
Funny the author of the article did not take offense at the question, nor did he get hung up on the semantics of my question. He responded respectfully, yet you are still sniping well after the question was clarified and resolved. Sounds like it is more your issue...
"The real gospel is chiefly about reforming us."
YeahRight
The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
Like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.
Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.
A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.
Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.
Despite personal belief it is going to eventually be legal. Meaning they will be able to experience the same ups and downs of every married couple, no longer special just the same....
Waiter! Table 52 has a fly in his soup! Bring us a frog at once!
That's the end game in equality, to be equal..
Astropup, if you knew where table 52 is... That would be funnier
It's not that we are equal, its that we should all be treated equally under the law. There are no criteria to use other than the most general descriptions to objectively compare individuals, so we cannot be equal, we can only strive to treat each other equally under the law.
And I'm guessing Table 52 is in a book, right? This frog is not going to fit in a book.
Waiter! Take the frog back and bring me a librarian. I'm going to see this book gets put in its place.
Nope, table 52 is a geographical location. Ok so as the law changes we will all have equal access to the rights and wrongs of marriage , got it
So ultimately it will be laws that derive, equality, safety, and happiness
We can all strive to treat everyone as equally as possible, but religious people will likely refuse all such fellowship since their rules are not written with equality or enlightened self-interest in mind.
Religious people who follow these bigoted religions will never willingly treat others equally, so equality under the law will have to wait until we have purged religious corruption from our governments and seek a rational future. I will be long dead by then.
A Chicago restaurant? Really? Are you the guy on the website?
You must have to hover over your customers so they don't steal all the stuff that isn't tied down you have piled everywhere.
Hopefully Censored News Network will not delete this:
God's Gospel of His Son Jesus Christ offered to gays, all other sinners and to me:
God, the Father, delivered God, the Son, Jesus, for our sins, and raised him from the dead for our justification.
What is sin?
The opposite of love of neighbour. When ever we inflict pain, damage or any disadvantage on our neighbour we sin (against love). Love is not only a principle but a person, Jesus Christ or God. If we sin, we forsake God's life-giving presence on which we depend. That means, if we sin we damage also ourselves, and will feel the consequences of sin through depression, lonelyness, diseases, etc., even without the attendance of any commandments (commandments would only help us to realize that we do things which don't please God but they cannot help us to overcome our egoism, even the temptation becomes stronger through the law or commandments).
As we cannot return to God (into his life-giving) presence through the law or the commandments, God delivered his Son Jesus for us. He has borne our sins when he died for us on the cross, and He lives for the sake of our justification. If we simply believe this message and get sacramentally baptized, we die for the sin and "enter" Christ in whom we can love God and our neighbour despite our intrinsic sinfulness (the sin dwells in the limbs of our body).
Dear gay (brother), God gave his Son also for you, and wants to set you free through the releasing power of Jesus death and resurrection. Accept this know, and start a new life in Jesus. If you have yet received infant baptism, you mustn't be baptized again but refer to your infant baptism, and believe that you have died and resurrected together with Him through baptism.
Gospel of Jesus Christ, Amen.
Allowing someone else to take your just punishment is a sin, so accepting jesus and allowing him to take your punishment is a sin. Odd how you have to sin in order to join your cult.
Bearing false witness again, RainyBra? You'd fit right in with all those Muslims. I think I hear them calling your mothers name.
Happy Mothers Day you ugly old woman!
The real gospel is chiefly about reforming us. The reform of our life through the gospel is at least as important as the forgiveness of our sins through Christ's sacrifice as an atonement.
Let's start by returning the word gospel to it original "gods spell", first off. Second you haven't addressed how you can reconcile the allowing of someone else to take your just punishment as a way to save yourself.
Would you not be more accepted by god if you refused to commit the sin of letting another suffer for YOUR actions?
The whole of christianity is based on that immorality, and somehow the rest of it somehow justifies it.
CNN didn't delete anything. Another poster did. Get in the game, Rainer.
"1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
What's that smell? Oh, its someone sweating pure Xanax out his pores. Babbling too.
Someone duct-tape a bible to this idiots forehead and send him out to cross in heavy traffic.