home
RSS
May 11th, 2013
10:00 PM ET

My Take: ‘Gay Christian’ is not an oxymoron

Editor’s note: Justin Lee is the Executive Director of the Gay Christian Network and author of Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate.

By Justin Lee, Special to CNN

(CNN)–In high school, I was a Christian know-it-all.

My nickname was "God boy," and I was known for regularly preaching at my friends about social issues of the day. I dismissed their objections - and accusations of homophobia - as intolerance for my faith.

"I'm just telling you what God's Word says," I'd argue.

Years later I realized my mistake. What my peers most objected to wasn't my beliefs - it was my condescending attitude. I debated and preached when I should have listened. I thought that stating my position loudly and unyieldingly was a sign of strength. In the process, I alienated my friends.

I'm still an evangelical Christian, but one thing is now crystal clear to me. American evangelicals' bad reputation isn't just because of what we believe. It's mostly because of how we behave.

When ESPN commentator Chris Broussard was criticized for saying that openly gay NBA player Jason Collins was “openly rebelling against God,” some evangelicals argued that conservative theological views are no longer tolerated in America.

Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter

But they're missing the point.

Broussard's language didn't just express a religious view about sexual morality; it referred to gay people in ways that were dehumanizing, reducing all gay people's lives to a single sex act. Other outspoken Christians routinely say even worse things, comparing gay people to pedophiles, for example.

No one is immune from criticism in a free country with diverse beliefs. But if Christians feel particularly singled out at times, I'd argue that our perceived lack of empathy for others is largely to blame.

I can often test a Christian's level of empathy by offering a single admission: When I was 18, I realized that I'm gay.

Empathetic Christians are typically intrigued by such a statement, even if they also question how a conservative Southern Baptist could also be openly gay. They want to know about my struggles, how my family and church responded, and whether I ever feel my faith and sexuality are at odds with one another.

I love these questions, because they show that the other person genuinely sees me as a human being.

But far too often, Christians respond not with curiosity and questions but with politics and preaching.

They quote Bible passages at me, make assumptions about my faith, or tell me why they’re opposed to same-sex marriage.

I'm no longer a person to them; I'm a symbol of a culture war. A battlefield. And when I don't want to be treated that way, they assume I'm turning away because I didn't really want to hear the truth.

This kind of behavior is why so many of my LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) friends want nothing to do with the church.

But it's not only them.

In my book, "Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate," I share the story of Cindy, a conservative evangelical mom whose life was thrown into turmoil when her son told her he was gay.

This wasn't a political question for Cindy; it was a personal one. But the dehumanizing rhetoric about gay people she heard from the pulpit made her afraid to talk to anyone at church about her son's sexuality.

Christians are not a monolithic group. I know many empathetic Christians, including many who speak up regularly for their LGBT brothers and sisters.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

The loudest megaphones do not speak for the rest of us, but they are still loud, and legion. To them I say: Gay people are not an issue. We're people. Some of us are Christians, too. And if it disturbs you that I refer to myself as both gay and Christian, I invite you to take the time to get to know me, and read what I write. You don't have to agree, and you might think I’m a sinner, but at least you’ll see me as a human being.

Baptist minister and author Tony Campolo quips that Jesus entreated Christians not to "love the sinner and hate the sin," but to "love the sinner and hate your own sin."

Jesus saved his harshest words for the self-righteously devout and chose the outcasts and sinners as his closest friends.

Perhaps a lesson in Jesus-style humility might do us all some good.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Justin Lee.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Homosexuality • Opinion

soundoff (3,629 Responses)
  1. Heathen Mike

    Bob, I just want to add to your biblical observations:
    The only explanation for the Book of Revelations is that the author was psychotic. It therefore naturally follows that millions of people have convinced themselves it comes direct from G*d. hmm...

    May 16, 2013 at 7:51 am |
    • Len

      Well, there could have been gasses in that cave, like at the Oracle at Delphi, or John was into shrooms.

      May 16, 2013 at 8:07 am |
    • lol??

      Mikey-Len, How's that gay LUV work when you eat oatmeal??

      May 16, 2013 at 8:45 am |
    • Neal Dakota

      I'd suggest you do a detailed study of Revelation. The book itself is a complex linking of Old Testament imagery that takes years of study to thoroughly grasp all of the Old Testament references. Now, you can dismiss all of that imagery as being fairy tales, but not teams of Hollywood writers today can link together such imagery from multiple stories. The author of Revelation was clearly well educated on Hebrew literature and had a detailed understanding of how it all fit together.

      Now again, you can dismiss all of the referenced literature as imaginary, but to say the author was on an acid trip is both ignorant and intellectually dishonest.

      May 16, 2013 at 9:33 am |
    • correction

      had a detailed plan to make it look like everything fit together all along

      May 16, 2013 at 9:37 am |
    • sam stone

      neal: no one mentioned an acid trip

      May 16, 2013 at 9:45 am |
    • lol??

      Is there an oatmeal eatin' lunar cycle that science hasn't revealed yet??

      May 16, 2013 at 9:46 am |
    • Saraswati

      Neal, as Sam pointed out the subject was mental illness, not drugs. However, for the reasons you point out that is more likely than mental illness, which would normally make writing in that style more difficult (true schizophrenic writing is much less coherent). On the other hand I am personally acquainted with a well established and published philosopher who's theories in logic and metaphysics are in part an effort to recreate structures he saw during an acid trip many years ago. His writing style is very different and I suspect few people are aware of the inspiration, but then his visions and experiences are also very different.

      May 16, 2013 at 9:53 am |
    • Neal Dakota

      Forgive my exaggeration. I was merely grouping such claims as "psychotic", "cave fumes", and "shrooms" into a single label to emphasize the claims against John's mental state at the time of his writing. Sometimes I forget that the best way to address people on this thread is by picking apart their syntax and grammar choice word for word!

      May 16, 2013 at 10:02 am |
    • lol??

      One thing for sure, God has shown his power over the brain functions.

      "Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?"

      May 16, 2013 at 10:03 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Neal, if what you mean is that a good way to address people is by accurately representing what people have said rather than putting inaccurate statements into their mouths, then yes. There is a big difference between saying someone is mentally ill with a neurotransmitter imbalance and they they are partaking of recreational drugs.

      May 16, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • lol??

      The Beast's version of science, from wiki,
      "..............Hundreds of participants, including CIA agents, government employees, military personnel, prosti*tutes, members of the general public, and mental patients were given LSD, many without their knowledge or consent............"

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lysergic_acid_diethylamide

      May 16, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • sam stone

      "There is a big difference between saying someone is mentally ill with a neurotransmitter imbalance and they they are partaking of recreational drugs."

      sure, but when you put them together, they's dynamite

      May 16, 2013 at 10:26 am |
    • Science

      lol??.................is that in window payne or blotter form ?

      May 16, 2013 at 10:26 am |
    • Saraswati

      @sam

      "sure, but when you put them together, they's dynamite"

      Unfortunately that exact combination accounts for a large portion of the homeless population. Poor, hungry, unclean and miserable, but not so much dynamic and not often capable of writing much. We might be looking here at something on the spectrum towards schizophrenia or some drug use, but severe mental illness or a combo with drug use seems unlikely to me.

      May 16, 2013 at 11:45 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      You spent so much energy drilling down on drug use and mental illness that you missed the point. The book of the Revelation of John is written in an ancient and formal style known as Apocalyptic. John wasn't mad and he wasn't inebriated. He was lucid, educated, creative and inspired.

      May 16, 2013 at 11:52 am |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      John of Patmos was certainly intelligent, but he may have been tripping, too. There's no telling what he was eating and drinking, and plenty of plants and fungi have psychosymatic properties.

      May 16, 2013 at 11:56 am |
    • Saraswati

      @Bill, This is kind of an aside since I don't think we're really going to determine someone's mental health status at this kind of distance. But I've found fascinating the recent work on the relationship between schizophrenia, bolar disorder and creativity. Many researchers now look at it as a continuum. I'd love to be an author, but may main issue write now is whether to think of myself as not creative enough or too sane?

      An interesting evolutionary question is even raised as to whether the trait is advantageous in a milder form and that's why it stays around:

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201203/schizophrenia-and-creativity

      A little like the sickle cell theories. Anyway, not particularly relevant to the discussion except in so far as all creative people might be thought of as a "little crazy", but often in a good way.

      May 16, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
  2. Gay Marriage Watch

    Congrats to Brazil on becoming the third and largest Latin American country to fully legalize same-sex marriage this past Tuesday, the same day that Minnesota legalized gay marriage. Before Tuesday, only some jurisdictions allowed same-sex marriage. In a bold move for the majority Roman Catholic nation, Brazil's National Council of Justice ruled that all Brazilian notary publics must register same-sex civil unions as marriages if the couple requests it. The announcement was explained by the Chief Justice of Brazil's Supreme Federal Court. (Same-sex civil unions were already recognized country-wide in Brazil since 2011.)

    Brazil, host of the 2014 World Cup and 2016 Summer Olympics, is one of the fastest-growing major economies in the world with an average annual GDP growth rate of over 5 percent. (GDP – $2.2 trillion USD in 2013). It is currently the second largest economy in the western hemisphere. The South American country has a total area slightly larger than the continental United States, and is home to ~200 million people (roughly eight times the population of the next most populous predominantly Portuguese-speaking nation). It is also the most bio-diverse country on the planet. You may have seen televised coverage in recent weeks of the 2013 X Games, held at Iguazu Falls, which lies on Brazil's border with Argentina:
    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bURthT5Xl6c&w=640&h=360]

    May 16, 2013 at 7:13 am |
  3. Gay Marriage Watch

    Same-se-x marriage in the U.S.:

    Done deal: Connecticut, Delaware, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington & the District of Columbia.

    Who's next?
    Illinois: Gov. Pat Quinn called on the Illinois House to send him legislation to legalize gay marriage, saying lawmakers had plenty of time to make up their mind on the issue. The state Senate passed the measure on Valentine's Day, and the governor has said he's ready to sign it.

    New Jersey: Gov. Christie doesn't seem to be against gay marriage coming from a ballot measure, but has stated in the past he would veto such a change from legislators. This was his stance before the President changed his views. If Christie reconsiders, NJ could be sooner than expected.

    California: It seems gay marriage will be in CA soon one way or the other. This is because polls show a much larger support for gay marriage than when Prop 8 was passed. So even if the upcoming SCOTUS case were to fail, it would likely be put to voters there very soon again.

    Hawaii: Already has some good laws on the books evidently, and although things have been put on hold until after 2013, legislators there are attempting to speed up the process.

    Virginia: A new Washington Post poll reported Tuesday, 5/14/13 shows, for the question,

    "Do you think it should be legal or illegal for gay couples to get married?",

    56% of Virginians answered legal – an increase of ten percent on the same question and answer from the same poll two years ago.

    The state, birthplace to eight U.S. presidents is adjacent to Maryland and the District of Columbia where same-se-x marriage is already legal.

    Arizona: A new Rocky Mountain poll shows 55% of Arizona residents now support gay marriage.
    ==========================
    Let's see around the globe:

    Done deal: Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, Iceland, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Uruguay, & portions of Brazil.

    In the works:

    France: Has already passed same-se-x marriage bill in both houses; president intends to sign; right-wing party plans to challenge in the Consti tutional Council to try to force a delay on enactment.

    Germany: On 22 March 2013 the Bundesrat passed an initiative to open marriage to same-se-x couples, which now moves onto the Bundestag for approval.

    Ireland: On 14 April 2013 as part of the Consti tutional Convention a measure voted in favour of same-se-x marriage by a margin of 79 percent.

    UK: On 5 February 2013, the House of Commons debated the Marriage (Same Se-x Couples) Bill and approved it in a 400–175 vote at the second reading. (Third reading to be scheduled.)

    Finland: 03-19-2013: The citizens' initiative overrides the committee's decision, and thus the bill must now be considered by the Parliament.

    Luxembourg: On 6 February 2013, the Chamber's justice committee agreed to approve the measure opening marriage for same-se-x couples. On 20 February, the committee initially backed the right to simple adoption for same-se-x couples. On 6 March 2013, the committee confirmed that position.

    Australia: lower house MP will seek to have his Marriage Equality Amendment Bill brought for an immediate vote in the House on June 6.

    Mexico (UPDATE): Gay marriage is already legal in Mexico City, however, the Miami Herald reported today that "A unanimous ruling by the Mexican Supreme Court overturning a state law against same-se-x marriage has opened the way for the eventual legalization of gay marriage across Mexico, legal experts say. The court ruled unconsti-tutional a law in southern Oaxaca state that defines marriage as a legal union between a man and a woman."

    Vietnam: Last July, the Justice Ministry in Vietnam said it would consider a provision for same-se-x marriage rights in an amendment to the country's marriage laws.

    Taiwan: Last year, a same-se-x Buddhist couple married in Taiwan, where a legalization bill has been pending since 2003. Taipei is also home to Asia's largest annual gay pride parade, according to organizers. Taiwan’s Ministry of Justice are currently examining whether to change their civil code to accept same-se-x marriage or to legislate for civil partnerships. Taiwan could very well be the first Asian country to legalize gay marriage.

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ULdaSrYGLQ&w=640&h=360]

    May 16, 2013 at 7:13 am |
  4. faith

    "There is no proof that your god or any god actually exists. You have chosen a culturally-approved path that makes you feel better about your failings and your mortality. Rational people are comforted by the truth, not by religious fairy tales."

    Not one ounce of evidence. pure b u l l. 100% garbage. all of it. they have never proven a single claim that there is no evidence for god. they have stated this absurd, ridiculous lie non-stop day and night, 24-7, year after year w/o ever proving any of it. never. nothing. nada. zero. zilch.

    May 16, 2013 at 3:12 am |
    • Science

      Recent search Chadie and faith

      http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/5/5/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority#

      Front page there too billie and chadie

      And twitter results..............
      Page 2 of about 4,310,000 results (0.20 seconds)

      May 16, 2013 at 5:36 am |
    • faith

      prophesied not one god-hating nazi fascist would express any sorrow or grief or regret over the helpless, innocent, defenseless murdered children butchered with a cold, dirty stainless steal scapel by snipping through each girl's neck

      so, our loving nazi god hating fascist bigots did exactly what i predicted. agree

      May 16, 2013 at 6:28 am |
    • Science

      Good morning faith.

      Have a great day................go find chad.

      May 16, 2013 at 6:55 am |
    • sam stone

      faith: jeebus is waiting. use your sidearm

      May 16, 2013 at 7:59 am |
    • Len

      faith
      And yet, you still don't state any evidence.

      May 16, 2013 at 8:09 am |
    • Truth Prevails :-)

      "prophesied not one god-hating nazi"

      Nazis were not god-haters, they were under their good christian leaders orders to do as they were told or risk certain severe punishment (sounds typical christian...do you as you're demanded to or suffer horrible torment). You are about as clueless as a slug, try reading something other than your buybull.

      May 16, 2013 at 8:19 am |
    • faith

      "Science
      Good morning faith.
      Have a great day................go find chad."

      c?

      May 16, 2013 at 10:06 am |
    • Science

      faith......................domesday .................when is going to happen faith and chad ?

      You know faith..................with the red devil coming up from below?

      se-x education does it work for you faith

      from christians be nice comment from long ago ?

      May 16, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • Science

      Oops forgot................it.

      May 16, 2013 at 10:22 am |
    • Science

      So faith.........is the sh-it going to hit the fan here too ?

      May 16, 2013 at 10:31 am |
  5. faith

    "Filthy Hind I love to Mithrism lick and talk Islam bunk John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." If it were really a god, it could have just accomplished the result without being subject to a "system", which required the death. That is no god."

    prove it. u can't. u r a liar

    NEXT

    May 16, 2013 at 2:59 am |
  6. faith

    "LinCA
    @Logan
    You said, "I do not co ndone the act of intam cy from the LGBT community, but I also do not act negatively towards them either."
    What two consent ing adults do to each other is none of your f c ki ng business. there is nothing for you to "condone". Your conde scension is acting negatively towards them."

    so, amen

    so, preach it dodo

    so, good point. that's why we must vote according to your will. agree

    so, all nazi god hati ng fas c is ts favor same se ks ma rri age agree

    so, and every na zi god h ating fasc ist is enti tled to know how u vote in priv acy agre e

    May 16, 2013 at 2:45 am |
  7. faith

    "Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol
    And have you checked with every single atheist in the world? You are so stupid."

    that's y u r ending chris t ianity. every chris tian is a big o ted ho mo ph obe. enough b enough.

    May 16, 2013 at 2:06 am |
    • faith

      "Richard Cranium
      Get over what? You think someone can "get over" being gay?
      You need to get over your religion...religion is a choice, h0m0$exuality isn't."

      prove it

      May 16, 2013 at 2:17 am |
  8. faith

    dodo is wiig's character in reverse. she is more miserable, more skeptical, more negative, more pessimistic, more critical, more harsh, more disillusioned, more bitter, more angry, she has more reasons to feel sorry 4 herself, more hateful

    c what i mean?

    not one word

    but, say something, anything suggesting disapproval of gay marriage and she won't shut up.

    love use dodo

    May 16, 2013 at 2:00 am |
  9. faith

    thanks ladies

    i prophesied not one god-hating nazi fascist would express any sorrow or grief or regret over the helpless, innocent, defenseless murdered children butchered with a cold, dirty stainless steal scapel by snipping through each girl's neck

    May 16, 2013 at 1:43 am |
    • Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol

      And have you checked with every single atheist in the world? You are so stupid.

      May 16, 2013 at 1:47 am |
    • Dippy

      What's a "scapel?"

      May 16, 2013 at 1:53 am |
    • Mark From Middle River

      You seem silent Ak-Haru when some Atheist do the same. How many times have folks on your side attempted to label all those of Faith as being the same?

      May 16, 2013 at 1:53 am |
    • Dippy

      And what kind of metal is "steal?" Wow. How old are you, faith? You seem to be about 12.

      May 16, 2013 at 1:57 am |
    • Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol

      @Mark – Easy there, big guy. Are you accusing me of painting all Christians the same in some untrue way?
      Please show where I have done that, troll, or stfu and gtfo.

      May 16, 2013 at 2:12 am |
    • Mark From Middle River

      >>>"Are you accusing me of painting all Christians the same in some untrue way?"

      Did I accuse you of doing such.... this is the point where you start to get the desire to moving to a mirror and repeating STFU to yourself over and over. 🙂

      All I said was that you were "silent" on others actions...not that you did such.

      Now fool ... since you want to play flame wars .... balls in your court.

      May 16, 2013 at 2:17 am |
    • Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol

      You accuse me of being "silent" when it is merely the lack of me posting anything. I am not silent. What do you need me to say for your selfish pleasure, O wonderful and lovely troll?
      I would be glad to help you by speaking on whatever topic you like, unless I have to go and cannot post for a long while.
      I do have things to do other than posting, so calling me "silent" is rather ridiculous.

      May 16, 2013 at 2:23 am |
    • Mark From Middle River

      >>>"You accuse me of being "silent" when it is merely the lack of me posting anything. I am not silent. "

      Lack equals silence, especially when you only choose to speak when it is your group being targeted. How can you be considered credible when you ask someone if they know all Atheist when so many Atheist speak/post as if they know all those of Faith.

      >>>"What do you need me to say for your selfish pleasure, O wonderful and lovely troll?"

      If it takes a troll smacking you in the face at 1:30 in the morning to understand that the biggest problem is not bigots on one side or the other but bigots on both the Atheist and Faithful sides...then there you have it.

      >>>"I would be glad to help you by speaking on whatever topic you like, unless I have to go and cannot post for a long while."

      Yeah, I am about to go into a hour long Halo/Unreal marathon. 🙂

      May 16, 2013 at 2:32 am |
    • midwest rail

      Mark, can you provide a link to comments demonstrating that you have taken on both sides ?

      May 16, 2013 at 2:34 am |
    • Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol

      @Mark
      "How can you be considered credible when you ask someone if they know all Atheist when so many Atheist speak/post as if they know all those of Faith. "

      Are you saying I am one of those "Atheist" who do that? Can you show where I have done this?
      Again, you insinuate and accuse me of being silent. No one put me in charge, fool. I am not required to respond to everyone's post anywhere, so you can just pull back on your extremist views concerning me.
      You don't know me, troll. So quit talking like you do.

      May 16, 2013 at 2:48 am |
    • Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol

      @Mark
      "How many times have folks on your side attempted to label all those of Faith as being the same?"

      So you think I am all-knowing? I'm flattered, but you really should explain why you think I need to suddenly do your homework for you. I have no idea how many people would do such a thing but I am confident it is more than one.
      So some atheist zinged you and now you are butthurt and are lashing out at me as if all atheists were the same.
      Good going, Mark. Hypocrisy is always good for a laugh when done by someone accusing others of hypocrisy.
      Thanks.

      May 16, 2013 at 2:55 am |
    • Mark From Middle River

      >>>"Mark, can you provide a link to comments demonstrating that you have taken on both sides ?"

      I do not know, maybe when I write :

      "to understand that the biggest problem is not bigots on one side or the other but bigots on both the Atheist and Faithful sides..."

      I have posted the same for a while now. I used to post more when I had time between classes. Now days I do not have as much time as I have in the past.

      >>"You don't know me, troll. So quit talking like you do."

      >>"So you think I am all-knowing?"

      Ak-Haru, I think knowing you happened on your post at May 16, 2013 at 1:35 am.

      At that point you became just like all of the rest of the rabid evangelical Atheist. Basically, no different than all the bigots on the Faithful side.

      How can you expect to question if I know you when you do the same to another.In Lee's article he stated:

      "But far too often, Christians respond not with curiosity and questions but with politics and preaching.They quote Bible passages at me, make assumptions about my faith, or tell me why they’re opposed to same-s'ex marriage."

      Then you state:

      "He shows himself to be a severely schizophrenic masochist who also happens to be gay. How can we respect insanity?"

      I am sorry Ak-Haru....but your post are no different than the bigots in the Faith. Hatred is Hatred.

      May 16, 2013 at 3:21 am |
    • Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol

      @Mark
      lmao!
      I had to go looking for that post you referenced. Wowee you are one giant aching pair of butt cheeks dude.
      Here, I will paste that post of mine and your response::

      Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol
      How can we give Justin Lee a chance when he has already blown it? (no pun intended)
      He shows himself to be a severely schizophrenic masochist who also happens to be gay.
      How can we respect insanity? Shall we honor suicide bombers also? You make no sense.
      May 16, 2013 at 1:35 am
      ----------
      Mark From Middle River
      Who is this "we". I have been on this blog for year or two and I have noticed that rabid Atheist are no different in their closed mindedness as Fred Phelps of Westburo or even the late Bin Laden. If you look at your post, how different are you from the most hate-filled Christian, Muslim or even Jewish Westbank settler.
      I get it, some person of Faith told you off in the past and you want to get back at all of us as a whole. That's stupid and guess what, if you just want to flame then ok, declare yourself a troll and go fishing for other trolls. Just leave Justin alone, you look silly in your attack.
      May 16, 2013 at 1:51 am

      -------
      So...you think I was talking to you? I was responding to "Heathen Mike" the post just above mine. If you read my words in light of this new information, you might be able to make more sense and not sound like someone who sees nazis everywhere.
      I stand by my words. Justin Lee is clearly schizophrenic (he is delusional because he believes imaginary things are real), and he is clearly a masochist (remaining the member of a cult that hates his xexual orientation). As to his being gay that doesn't matter to me at all and I tried to make that clear. Maybe you missed that part.
      You call me close minded and say I am no better than Bin Laden himself or Fred Phelps of the Westburo nutjobs!
      Wow, Mark, you need some meds I guess!
      If I am as bad as Bin Laden you'd better call Seal Team Six to pay me a visit, huh.
      LOL
      So tell me something, mister I-see-bin-laden-everywhere. I'll ask it again, only this time from you:
      How can we respect insanity? Shall we honor suicide bombers also?
      Tell me why I should respect Justin Lee?
      He's a delusional young man who has been brainwashed so deeply he cannot leave the cult that hates him.
      I do not respect mental illness. I do not respect the delusions of crazy people.
      As a fellow human being, I certainly would be glad to hear of Justin somehow escaping his dangerous situation and even more glad to hear of him getting de-programmed as much as possible. I don't hate Justin, I hate his mental illness.
      Kind of like "love the sinner -hate the sin", right?
      But, no, you think I am a second Bin Laden or a nazi or whatever paranoid delusion you've got stuck in your craw because I dare to point out the mental illness of Justin Lee.
      So what? There are more where he came from, that's for sure. You sound like a nutjob, Mark. So far I haven't seen anything from you that deserves respect.
      Are you a gay Christian, too? Is that why you are so upset? Can I call you a waaambulance?
      Gay is fine. Christian is not. Mental illness is not okay. See a mental health professional, please.
      How can I respect someone who could murder in the name of imaginary nonsense?
      Answer me that, troll. I can kill in self-defense, but people like you can kill for any imaginary reason. Think about that and quit making assumptions about people you don't know squat about. I do not respect people who are threats to me.
      Any religious person is a potential threat. You try to paint me as dangerous, but I am the rational one here.

      May 16, 2013 at 4:42 am |
  10. faith

    bible study with dodo, noted scholar and pragmatist,

    she pulls verses out of nowhere and makes wonderful personal applications for the believer.

    dodo's most profound thinking on exegesis goes like this: to all filthy deluded, sick, gay-hating reborners, you must follow every word in the buybull. so, as judas went and hanged himself. he commands you, go, and do thou likewise. and, that thou doest, do quickly

    May 16, 2013 at 12:17 am |
  11. Austin

    Who sells the gay clothing?

    May 15, 2013 at 11:46 pm |
    • Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol

      Who trips the light fantastic? How did the fox jump over the lazy dog? Where is Mr. Body?
      Can any man judge for himself? This mystery is beyond the pale! Call out the dogs! Release the pigeons!

      May 16, 2013 at 1:16 am |
    • lol??

      The socies tricked society with the flag.Sold a bunch. Made the kids take the pledge.

      May 16, 2013 at 1:28 am |
    • midwest rail

      More conspiracy babble from the lol?? compound. How many times does the "word" socies appear in the KJV ?

      May 16, 2013 at 1:35 am |
    • sam stone

      why, austin....looking to upgrade your closet?

      make it more comfy in there?

      May 16, 2013 at 8:14 am |
  12. Tom

    If you are an Evangelical Christian and Gay and you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of god. Then you must realize that the Bible defines being Gay as an abomination. Make sure you also don't eat shrimp or wear mixed fabrics. I also like the parts of the Bible identify female slaves as being about half the value or male slaves and how you can determine if you are at fault for your slave's death after beating them.

    May 15, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Not everyone who believes the bible is inspired believes it is inerrant. If they do, however, yep, they've got some hefty changes to make.

      May 15, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
    • lol??

      Yeah, it looks like the gays should stay outa parades.

      "Jam 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:"

      May 15, 2013 at 11:21 pm |
    • lol??

      The churches fouled up on the Easter bonnet parade, too. The wimen didn't get it. They ended up wearin' salad bars on their heads.

      May 15, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
    • faith

      or, we could discuss collapsing baby's' skills

      May 15, 2013 at 11:36 pm |
    • Austin

      Tom , female slaves were not worth as much as a male slave? Do you think there is something wrong with the pricing?

      May 15, 2013 at 11:49 pm |
    • Science

      Interesting comment there................sara ?

      https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/

      May 15, 2013 at 11:52 pm |
    • Dippy

      Faith, try "babies' skulls." Are you literate? Do you know what that means?

      May 16, 2013 at 12:04 am |
    • hal 9001

      At this rate, "Dippy", the next time "faith" needs an apostrophe, she may have to buy one.

      May 16, 2013 at 12:20 am |
    • Dippy

      She wouldn't know that she needs one. That's the problem with marginally literate people.

      May 16, 2013 at 12:23 am |
    • faith

      Dippy
      Faith, try "babies' skulls." Are you literate? Do you know what that means?

      oh. skulls! duh, my fault.

      who wants to discuss collapsing "skulls" of babies? oh kermit. kermit gosnell! oh snap. he didn't vacuum their brains. he severed their spines to kill those children.

      was that much fun kirby? i haven't seen one nazi god-hating fascist comment over these senseless murders performed for womens' reproductive health

      May 16, 2013 at 12:35 am |
    • Dippy

      Faith, I'll give you "skills" as a typo. But using an apostrophe to form a plural of "baby" reveals a serious deficiency in your intelligence level. To make that understandable to you, let me put it this way: You are a stupid twit with a low IQ.

      May 16, 2013 at 1:00 am |
    • Dippy

      And it's women's...not womens'. Jeez, how ignorant can you be, faith? Go back o school. And stay awake this time!

      May 16, 2013 at 1:20 am |
    • Neal Dakota

      Before you go telling Christians how to read their Bible, I'd suggest you actually read and study what the Bible says about the law, specifically under the New Covenant.

      May 16, 2013 at 9:36 am |
  13. Please post the verse from the bible that say " if you are gay you cannot be a christian"?

    Of course I know all about the ones that say it's an abomination; but, they say that about eating lobster too. But where in the bible does it say "being gay is the unforgivable sin"? And all of you "go thou and sin no more" folks, please describe how you never do the same sin again after you have prayed for forgiveness?

    May 15, 2013 at 10:10 pm |
    • lol??

      R U Nutzo??

      May 15, 2013 at 10:24 pm |
    • faith

      2 dodo 8 vs 12 – do unto dodo before dodo does it to you NNIVLB

      May 15, 2013 at 11:38 pm |
  14. Logan

    I hope and pray that believers and non-believers both will take into consideration what I am about to say.

    Christians today are failing today because they truly lack the understanding and knowledge of what Jesus was teaching. Take into account that everything Jesus taught had multiple meanings and consider his question to John in the gospel of John chapter 21. Jesus asked John "Do you love me?", John responds yes. He asks John this three times. Perhaps Jesus asked this question to draw light upon the fact that is alright and truly acceptable to love another man and vice versa woman to woman. Because God loves us truly and deeply, not just pat on the back "Hey man I love you too", but true love that a man expresses to his wife. As Christians we need to expound on that connection, drawing the connection back to God. Quit turning people away because they are LGBT and have a civilized, respectable discussion with them. I do not condone the act of intamcy from the LGBT community, but I also do not act negatively towards them either. What I do accept is the generous amount of love that needs to be expressed and shown towards all are fellow neighbors. Jesus would never have accepted the hated actions of Christians today.

    May 15, 2013 at 9:58 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Logan

      You said, "I do not condone the act of intamcy from the LGBT community, but I also do not act negatively towards them either."
      What two consenting adults do to each other is none of your fucking business. there is nothing for you to "condone". Your condescension is acting negatively towards them.

      May 15, 2013 at 10:17 pm |
    • Bob

      Logan, you probably should look at your bible, both testaments, more closely and with a more open mind. One actually can find guidance to do all manner of hate and bigotry in it. The Golden Rule might be a better foundation to start from than a religion with such built-in hate as Christianity has.

      There's more to the bible than the "love thy neighbor" stuff that is the popular "pick and choose" selection, and some of it is very nasty. The package is not an acceptable whole. Here are just a few examples, from many. Note the remarks towards the end about interpretation and context too:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 15, 2013 at 10:19 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @Logan, I appreciate you goal to be loving and civil and it truly is an improvemnt on how. many behave. However, I think you underestimate the negative impact of expressing disaaproval of the most important relationship in a persons life. For most of us, gay or straight, our spouse or partner is the most important person in our life and any expression that aims toward severing that relation will always be seen as nothing but viscious and, even if you don't see it that way, hateful.

      May 15, 2013 at 10:32 pm |
    • lol??

      You're makin' much tadoo about nuthin'. Get the Beast out of peoples lives. You do realize they have been given up?? The commie monsters pulled a fast one. The gubmint god doesn't marry people. Look it up.

      May 15, 2013 at 10:39 pm |
    • .

      Annnnnd it's pretty obvious which of the childish responders here thinks they are God.

      May 15, 2013 at 10:47 pm |
    • .

      or that they speak for God, right, lol??

      May 15, 2013 at 10:48 pm |
    • *

      Logan, you have been sucked into the web of the enemy. It is not the voice of True Shepherd you're hearing, but of a lying spirit.

      May 15, 2013 at 11:10 pm |
    • faith

      what an idiot

      May 16, 2013 at 1:06 am |
    • faith

      "LinCA
      @Logan
      You said, "I do not condone the act of intamcy from the LGBT community, but I also do not act negatively towards them either."
      What two consenting adults do to each other is none of your fvcking business. there is nothing for you to "condone". Your condescension is acting negatively towards them."

      thanks god

      May 16, 2013 at 1:08 am |
    • faith

      "Bob
      Logan, you probably should look at your bible, both testaments, more closely and with a more open mind. One actually can find guidance to do all manner of hate and bigotry in it. The Golden Rule might be a better foundation to start from than a religion with such built-in hate as Christianity has. There's more to the bible than the "love thy neighbor" stuff that is the popular "pick and choose" selection, and some of it is very nasty. The package is not an acceptable whole. Here are just a few examples, from many. Note the remarks towards the end about interpretation and context too:
      Numbers 31:17-18 17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death” Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal. Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is. And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created."

      bob. thank you. lol

      May 16, 2013 at 1:24 am |
    • Heathen Mike

      Saraswati, I like the way you think. Someone I can respect, even while disagreeing on certain points. Thanks for trying to keep a civil tone in a blog that is anything but.
      If someone feels they must be religious, then being thoughtful about it is the way to go. Nice to hear Christians acknowledge that using the bible as a guidance aid in life does not absolve one of the responsibility to use the brain and read the scriptures with some healthy skepticism, both for what is printed and the possibility of error in interpretation.
      What makes no sense at all is people claiming to be followers of Christ and yet being hateful and arrogant. Thanks for NOT doing that!

      May 16, 2013 at 8:05 am |
    • Ken

      faith
      "44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves."
      So, that's why so many rich Christians here don't want amnesty for illegals coming from our neighbor country, Mexico; paying them a fraction of the wage they deserve is the closest thing to biblical slavery that the law will still allow.

      May 16, 2013 at 8:25 am |
    • Neal Dakota

      Bob,

      Your Biblical references, specifically to OT law, are misguided and not understood. Before you go telling Christians how to read their Bible, I suggest you study the purpose of the law, specifically under the New Covenant.

      May 16, 2013 at 9:38 am |
    • Logan

      To all of those who have read and responded to my comments I thank you. Your comments continue to inspire.

      I would also like to apologize to any whom I may have offended. My comments were a reflection of my religious beliefs. I did not intend to attack anyones personal Beliefs, Feelings, or Opinions. However, the majority of those that posted in response to my comments did so in direct opposition to what I was trying to convey, which was Love. Know that if you continue to allow hatred to rule you, it will consume you and will hurt yourself more than those whom you express it towards. May you all continue to search for True Peace, Happiness, and Love.

      May 16, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Logan

      You said, "My comments were a reflection of my religious beliefs."
      Since your religious beliefs are yours, and yours alone, they may affect how you live your life but they are of no consequence for the lives of anyone else.

      You are free to live your life by your fairy tale and infantile beliefs. You are free to not engage in homosexual acts. But you are not free, and never will be, to expect anyone else to live according to your delusion.

      Homosexuality is a normal part of nature and it harms no one. It is perfectly acceptable. In contrast, religion is entirely man made and it harms millions. If you are looking for something to eradicate, maybe you should look at religion.

      You said, "However, the majority of those that posted in response to my comments did so in direct opposition to what I was trying to convey, which was Love."
      The "love" part is appreciated.

      My beef is with when you said, "I do not condone the act of intamcy from the LGBT community", as there is nothing for you to "condone". It is also entirely void of "love". Your post implies that you somehow that you get to determine what is, and what isn't, acceptable behavior. Your comment implies that your fairy tale somehow applies to everyone. You, and your fairy tale, simply don't have the authority.

      You said, "Know that if you continue to allow hatred to rule you, it will consume you and will hurt yourself more than those whom you express it towards."
      No hate here, just intolerance for intolerance.

      May 17, 2013 at 11:24 am |
  15. doe john

    Christians are supposed to be gay, right ... you know, happy.

    May 15, 2013 at 9:15 pm |
    • Topher

      Austin, is that me?

      May 15, 2013 at 9:17 pm |
    • Science

      http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/5/5/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority#

      May 15, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
    • doe john

      Sorry Topher, I really tried but have no clue what you're talking about?

      May 15, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
    • doe john

      Sorry Science, I have no idea what your link is supposed to say in reference to Christians being gay [happy]?

      May 15, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
    • Science

      Front page there too billie and chadie

      May 15, 2013 at 10:11 pm |
    • Austin

      doe john our statement is a question?

      May 15, 2013 at 10:22 pm |
    • Science

      Austin ...............what ?

      May 16, 2013 at 8:33 am |
  16. mama k

    Congrats to Brazil on becoming the third and largest Latin American country to fully legalize same-sex marriage. Before yesterday only some jurisdictions allowed same-sex marriage. Brazil's National Council of Justice ruled that all Brazilian notary publics must register same-sex civil unions as marriages if the couple requests it. (The President of the fifteen-member National Council of Justice is the Chief Justice of Brazil's Supreme Federal Court.) (Same-sex civil unions were already recognized country-wide in Brazil since 2011.)

    Brazil, host of the 2014 World Cup and 2016 Summer Olympics, is one of the fastest-growing major economies in the world (currently second largest in the Western hemisphere) with an average annual GDP growth rate of over 5 percent. In Brazilian reals, its GDP was estimated at R$ 4.403 trillion in 2013($2.223 trillion USD). The South American country has a total area slightly larger than the continental United States.

    May 15, 2013 at 8:42 pm |
    • mama k

      I meant to also mention that the article where I read about this news started off with:

      "In a bold stride for the majority Roman Catholic nation, . . .

      May 15, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
    • mama k

      And on that note, I'm going to let Archie take over, but I'm only going to give him one note. I've got things to do...

      May 15, 2013 at 8:57 pm |
    • Archibald Smythe-Pennington, III

      Samba De Uma Nota So (Portuguese for 'One Note Samba')

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4B1QnflR9c&w=640&h=360]

      May 15, 2013 at 9:01 pm |
  17. Milk and lemons

    Gay Christianity...trying to pull this one off is like trying to mix cream and lemon juice (I speak from personal experience).

    My heartfelt love to GLBT Christians especially...I am sorry your personal life (spiritual and romantic) is in the spotlight now on account of everybody elses freaking politics.

    You have my love.

    May 15, 2013 at 8:35 pm |
    • Not a GOPer and nor do I play one on TV

      The Italians have figured it out: Lemon Gelato!

      May 15, 2013 at 8:44 pm |
  18. cosmic warriorz

    John 9:31
    We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.

    May 15, 2013 at 8:32 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Even more bullsh!t.

      May 15, 2013 at 8:51 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Christians like to say that all men are sinners. So basically you're saying that god doesn't listen to anyone. This comes as no surprise, as god would actually have to exist to be able to listen.

      May 15, 2013 at 9:21 pm |
    • Athy

      Actually that's "godly" bullshit. There is a difference.

      May 15, 2013 at 11:15 pm |
    • Ken

      So, you have to actually believe in God before he will listen to you, or answer any prayers? Of course, once you believe in God then you'll accept the idea that God "talks" to people in dreams, deja vu, odd coincidences. You'll also likely accept the notion that God sometimes has you wait very long times before answering and, even then, he may still say "No". In short, God will only listen and talk to people who actually believe enough that he's out there that they could easily just be fooling themselves into thinking that he does do these things. Funny how that works.

      May 16, 2013 at 8:18 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      “The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history.”

      – Robert Heinlein

      May 16, 2013 at 8:26 am |
  19. GOOD NEWS

    Don't give in, don't give up.
    You CAN get over it, and GOD absolutely WILL help.

    http://www.holy-19-harvest.com
    UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES

    May 15, 2013 at 8:00 pm |
    • Athy

      Pure bullshit.

      May 15, 2013 at 8:22 pm |
    • Ken

      Nice advertisement for a product that is anything, but free.

      May 16, 2013 at 8:19 am |
  20. TC

    It's simple. Being gay is a natural and harmless trait. it is neither chosen, or changeable, as it was created by God. It does not prevent anyone from living a healthy and fulfilling life, nor does it prevent anyone from establishing a relationship with God.

    It cannot be a sin, any more that height, eye color, or handedness is a sin.

    May 15, 2013 at 4:14 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Traditions of men denying Jesus' truth.

      Romans 3:4

      Amen.

      May 15, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Traditionally, one does not live with so many cats. But I'm not traditional that way.

      Amen.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:30 pm |
    • Athy

      TC, you're right about everything but the god part.

      May 15, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent, sorry to read that you are still lost.

      May 15, 2013 at 6:29 pm |
    • tallulah13

      chihuahuas, fake Hs. Cats are far too independent for HS.

      May 15, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Traditions of men are manifold and so are my cats. I say Amen loudly each time I sit on one to cover up the noise.

      Amen.

      May 15, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
    • Science

      Recent search Chadie and faith...........you too HS................the devil got you by the tail ?........not mine !

      http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/5/5/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority#

      Front page there too billie and chadie

      May 15, 2013 at 11:39 pm |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.