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 Harold Camping, now 91, is the force behind Family Radio -- and a couple failed prophecies.
May 16th, 2013
07:00 AM ET
End times for doomsday-linked radio network?By Jessica Ravitz, CNN (CNN) - Dealing with a struggling radio business – this wasn’t the way it was supposed to be. By all his calculations, Harold Camping expected to be nearly two years into his Rapture revelry, hanging in heaven with God and the select others who’d been saved. But when his predicted and vastly promoted May 21, 2011, Day of Rapture came and went, and the end of the world on October 21, 2011, didn’t pan out either, Camping lost his doomsday mojo. It didn’t help that he had another knock against him, having made a similar failed prophecy back in 1994. By March 2012, the degreed engineer who’s spent more than a half-century studying the Bible admitted mistakes. He vowed to back off from the prediction business. Now it seems Family Radio, the nonprofit Christian radio broadcasting network Camping started in 1959, may be foundering, according to an investigative story recently published in the Contra Costa Times. Financial documents show that Family Radio's assets dropped by more than $105 million in less than five years, despite an influx of $85 million in donations over that time, the California newspaper reported. This, of course, was during the big push to spread the news about the end that wasn’t. The paper also said donations have tumbled nearly 70% since May 21, 2011, spawning layoffs of longtime employees. And saddled with loans, a dwindling cash flow and alleged mismanagement, the network was reportedly forced to sell off its three biggest stations. “You eliminate those three (FM stations) and, ultimately, the rest of it dies,” former employee Matt Tuter told the Contra Costa Times. “I believe they are killing it off.” All of these financial struggles, however, come as the network grapples with losing the voice of its biggest star - Camping himself. He suffered a stroke in June 2011. And though he remains involved and still serves as the network's president, the flagship show he hosted, "Open Forum," is only running previously recorded programs. It was through Family Radio – and its multitude of U.S. stations, satellite feeds, shortwave radio use, Internet reach and translation machine – that Camping’s teachings and 2011 predictions spread across the globe. His doomsday message was bolstered by a massive billboard campaign at a reported price tag of $5 million. There were also initiatives like Project Caravan, which dispatched teams of volunteers in RVs to warn the people. CNN hopped on board one caravan and traveled with faithful ambassadors who’d given up everything for this cause. The coordinator for Project Caravan, Ted Kim, left Family Radio soon after May 21, 2011. Once his ambassadors - still around and not raptured - had a place to go, he told CNN, his work was done. Even though he doesn't work there anymore, that doesn’t mean he’s lost faith in the mission. He still believes spiritual judgment occurred in 2011 and that the world’s physical destruction is near. Photos: Doomsdays throughout time Kim, who is now home schooling his children and caring for his mother, suspects the supporters who fell away had erroneously put more stock in Camping than they’d put in the Bible or God himself. But Tuter, the former employee who served at Camping’s side for years before he was fired in 2012, suggested to the Contra Costa Times that a demise of Family Radio may be deliberate. He said Camping made it clear to him in 1996 that he wanted the network to die when he did. "He was very specific he did not want it to continue," Tuter told the newspaper. He said Camping confided in him a week before going into heart surgery: "God raised up Family Radio just as a platform for me!" Tom Evans, who has taken over the network’s day-to-day reins since Camping suffered that stroke, could not be reached by CNN for comment. But he offered the newspaper a very different perspective than Tuter's. Evans said he hopes that Family Radio can move forward, leaving this end-of-the-world banter behind it. “We want to be a comfort and reminder of God’s strength and mercy,” he said. “In the end, our founding mission is to proclaim the word of God.” That mission, coupled with the network’s recent history, may not make them boom like they once did. But to Evans and those who are keeping the faith, neither should it portend doom.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Hey Christians: denial is not just a river in Egypt!
Those Christians who actually follow the teachings of Christ are generally good people. Christianity, like most other large industries, is also flooded with greedy people out to turn a buck. So many of these large media ministries are huge money making scams. "You need to have faith" is a phrase that makes it easy to plunder people's pocketbooks. But hey, they'll all good capitalistic enterprises like other businesses. If this one preys upon Christians, well that's just simply having identified a demographic to which to address a specially tailored marketing campaign.
It's identical to right wing radio. Right wing radio simply spends its time inventing conspiracy theories in order to entertain its audience, to which it can sell advertised products.
You are totally correct !
well said!
My aunt gave away her money to a cult in Hawaii that promised her a seat next to Jesus when the world was supposed to end last December. My aunt tried to get all her family and friends to give their life saving to these snake oil salesmen. Now she is pennyless her family has abandoned her because of her hateful reactions against them for not joining, and this church of con artists have now packed up their tent and moved to a diffferent island, looking for another scam to pull.
The problem is that these transparent scams are protected under the guise of "religious freedom"...
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Dribble dribble.. splat splat.
Booger, are you by any chance related to LionlyLamb?
Word salad person #1 -vs- word salad person #2..
Both idiotic.
Read it backward, it makes sense...don't know why you would bother with the reverse speak though.
@Richard
What is the point of reading it backwards? Why the ploy of making it so?
The reasoning is this.. some lonely person decides to do a stunt for himself. Posts a complete literate post all backwards to have a self ego boost for himself. Let's some other person reveal the fact that it may be legible backwards to say "hey look someone figured it out."
That someone now can be considered clever to talk to. "He got my point."
To those that don't get it.. "I've proven to my self that my unique way of doing something gets me some kicks."
Let...not let's.
Answer...I didn't bother to read it...I have already studied well beyond it....just happened to notice it was backwards. Read enough to see where it was going and moved on.
@Richard
Neither did I.
I made a psychological evaluation of the person doing it.
Nobody seems to consider that perhaps the Bible was written in a way so that the people of those times could understand it. The bible specifically warns us of false prophets and this man is one of them... so are the Christians that believe the world is only 10K years old, and so are the Christians that can't accept evolution as fact.
Nobody knows how long it really took God to create... time is relevant. Nobody knows how God really created life, evolution could very well be in his plan...although there is no real evidence of human evolution, as there is with other animals.
God is the ultimate scientists, and to believe in him, and in Jesus make more sense than any other theory of how the universe came to be.
twist the bible any way you find necessary to make it fit reality. good job.
"although there is no real evidence of human evolution, as there is with other animals"
Can we just crown this guy with the stupidist statement of the day?
"perhaps"
So you admit you don't know what you are talking about. Well, that was easy. Next!
There's no evidence of a god creating anything and certainly the foundational biblical stories have been disproven by science, so why put any credence on the rest?
Evolution is hinduism absurdity of hindus ignorant s, nothing can form with dark matter, also known as spirit by science, but hindu atheist, ignorant denier of truth absolute GOD, insist of hindu fabrication called Evolution, and deny truth absolute of spirit by their hindu atheism, ignorant self center ism.
Actually, there is significant evidence of human evolution. And more is being discovered all the time. One only needs to pick up a good science article on it, instead of the bible.
I would be interested to know how you explain the rich, diverse, temporally consistent and vast array of hominid fossils we have acquired over the last170 years. We have found thousands upon thousands of hominid fossils in Ethiopia, Chad, Tanzania, South Africa, Croatia, Isreal, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Russia, Moldovia, the Ukraine, Java, China, the Phillipines, Iraq, Pakistan and Iran. They tell an interesting tale and show the gradual evolution in "humanness" including bipedalism, tool use, and brain capacity.
The last common ancestor of man and chimpanzees lived about 6 million years ago in Africa. Around that time, there was a branching in the evolution of the species and any intermediate species between this last common ancestor and modern man (Ho.mo sapiens) is called a hominid.
A number of different species of hominids have been identified. Beginning, roughly with the oldest to the newest, these are –
Sahelanthropus tchadensis
Australopithecus afarenses
Australopithecus africanus
Ho.mo habilus
Ho.mo ergaster
Ho.mo erectus
Ho.mo heidelbergensis
Ho.mo neanderthalis (Neanderthal man)
Ho.mo foresiensis
And us, Ho.mo sapiens.
The ages of the respective fossils suggest that our immediate ancestor was Ho.mo Erectus and that Ho.mo heidelbergensis, Ho.mo neanderthalis (Neanderthal man) and Ho.mo floresiensis all went extinct. That is to say, they were not in our lineage, they were our “cousins” although some interbreeding may have occurred.
The above is an over-simplification, omits many other intermediate species and is not without controversy in some areas, but is a useful yardstick to gauge how humans evolved from the last common ancestor we shared with the great apes.
But, we wil lfind the answers in the fossil record, not in Genesis.
Nobody knows if any gods exist...all of the evidence indicates men created all of the thousands of gods.
Hey @Colin ... have they found any ribs? That would explain where all the girls came from. 😉
Colin, every time you find a fossil it just gives me two new missing links to complain about.
It's better to believe and nothing happen, than to falsify and ridicule God, and deal with your judgement. I feel sorry for those who don't believe. It's a feeling that cannot be explained. Also, Genesis of the Bible talks about the beginning of the earth and universe, but so many of you are confused. Nowhere does it say the earth was made 6,000 years ago, nor does it say the length of time man was created after the earth. God could have made the earth 40 million years ago, and created man 39,994,000 years later.
Pascal's Wager was discredited almost as soon as he made it.
the cowards reason for belief is the most entertaining.
Thats called Pascals Wager, and you are pretty dim if you havent heard of it yet. You could ascribe that logic to any god. Why not beleive in Thor so he wont beat you with his hammer when you die? Why not beleive that Islam is the true religion, so you dont go to hell? Pascals Wager is the epitome of cowardice. You sir, are a coward.
Also, you're still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off if you think the workd is only 40 million years old.
I, for one, am not confused. There is no god, so how can there be any confusion? Creation of the earth and life happened naturally, no god needed.
There is a book about an amazing person named Harry Potter. It tells of all the miracles he performs. There are wise men and disciples that travel with him and reference to life after death in a heaven type place. There is evil and fighting and temptation. The book is about the same thickness as the bible, and it is written by someone with a far better knowledge of the world than bronze age goat herders living in the desert.
By your logic, because science can't PROVE that Harry does not exist, he must exist and we should worship him ...?
Do you worry about dying gloriously in battle so you can get to Valhalla?
No?
Then I hope you understand why we don't fret about your God's posthumous judgement.
Obvious troll...
Pascals Wager fails every time and is a pathetic reason for accepting a god that would rape s child; order a mass murder; uses torture as a punishment for not believing in him; condones slavery; condones hatred of gays; condones child abuse. So if by some very very slim chance you're right and we're wrong, I will be happy to be where the party truly would be at...far away from your vindictive god.
The so called "so what" syndrome...
"Please I beg you to believe like I do, because I'm really looking for some comfort. We can be friends together and share our delusions. If we can't be friends because my delusion is not relevant to you, then I'll have to either shout at you, or make you fear my delusion. You can join in with me in being as pathetic and stupid as I am, please. Please please accept my delusion. I'm emotional and I want to share my emotions without evidence."
Moving now to the 21st century:
origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.
New Torah For Modern Minds
“Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).
The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.
The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."
I'm 4 billion years old and what is this bullshit you are saying about me????
Beware of falling rocks, fool.
Technically the bible conflates the beginning of the Earth with the beginning of the Universe, which certainly makes it consistent with notions of creation at the time of writing. I think you paint a false choice because a person and choose not to believe respectfully and without ridicule of that belief. We can finally argue all day (and we might) whether there is merit to believing something that is untrue, but it cannot be denied that acting on a false belief can be detrimental. For example, and I think this goes for any sort of scam, the millions of dollars poured into it could be better spent on cancer research, education, poverty, hunger or driving down the national debt. It could even be argued it might be better to burn $100m than to hand it to a scam artist that he might use it to create more victims of his scam.
It was merely a quick statement on the 40 million years. I could care less how old the earth is. It doesn't affect me now. Too many people rely on science for answers (btw, science has not and cannot disprove God). As you wake up each and every morning feeling like something is missing in your life, just think back to this day, and remember you were given the chance. One day it will be too late. No worries...I won't be there to rub it in your face saying I told you so....but it will be hot.
~~Compare... if you will
1) "If we can't be friends because my delusion is not relevant to you, then I'll have to either shout at you, or make you fear my delusion. "
2) "I won't be there to rub it in your face saying I told you so....but it will be hot."
Fear and hot.
Isn't it neat? XD
I BELIEVE IN GOD–SO WHAT,
Science is under an illusion that this 'universe' is all of 16 or close to 'billions' years old. It is sciences' biasedness thru their beleaguered underpinnings of theories in prejudicial accountings of faulted baselessness that I see the sciences being found a wrong standing.
Our scientifically declared universe is formed out of mankind's inabilities to see past the outer reaches of spatial relativities. There is out there much more than our current days' perceptions of spatial declinations. Outer Space goes onwards into an infinity of spatial chasms beyond our ever knowing the allness of Outer Space relationships. Only Inner Space is finite and Outer Space is Infinite and never ending!
"It was merely a quick statement on the 40 million years. I could care less how old the earth is. It doesn't affect me now."
If you're too uneducated and too lazy to research the actual data, you will be called out.
"Too many people rely on science for answers (btw, science has not and cannot disprove God)."
Don't go to a Doctor the next time you get sick. Unplug your computer; disconnect your electricity; sell your car-without science you have none of that. As for not disproving a god, they can't disprove it any more than you can prove it. For non-believers, it is simply a matter of not seeing evidence to support a god.
As you wake up each and every morning feeling like something is missing in your life, just think back to this day,"
Nothing is missing in my life. I am quite content.
"and remember you were given the chance. One day it will be too late. No worries...I won't be there to rub it in your face saying I told you so....but it will be hot."
I'm not too worried because there is not evidence to support your irrational claim. As far as anyone knows, once you die there is nothing more. It is your belief not ours, therefore it is your hell to enjoy...your good apparently doesn't like his ilk to judge-that's a sin punishable by eternal torture...hahahahaha.
Some of these same "contributors" and "believers" of what this kook preached have also been known to ridicule Muslim radicals who put on suicide bombs and blow up people. They don't see that they have to same radical views.. taking delight in knowing they are going to their heaven while the vile people around them rot in a hell.
What might be worse is that you could compare them to a failed suicide bomber.. "Ok, Ok, I forgot to pull the pin, but let me try it again... my bad, believe me, next time I won't forget. Btw, can you send my family more money in the mean time?" "Ok, ok, we messed up on the date, little miscalculation, but we got it this time, believe me, the world is coming to an end.. but in the mean time can you send my family enough money to live for another..lets say 10 years?"
"Tranlation?" What does that mean?
Dippy is on a roll. LOL
To respons in more detail to John's post below, the theory most scientists currently favor for the origins of life is called “abiogenesis,” the gradual emergence of life on Earth from non-living matter.
Scientists believe that life first arose on Earth about 3.5 billion years ago. The Earth of that epoch was very different to what we see today. If you could hop in a time capsule and travel back, you wouldn’t recognize the place. The familiar continents would not exist, the moon would be much closer and larger in the sky and you would be dead within a few minutes. This is because the Earth was enveloped by a choking atmosphere of carbon dioxide, nitrogen, hydrogen sulfide and sulfur dioxide.
To understand what we think happened then/there to lead to life, we need to understand some basic biochemistry. All life is comprised of complex arrangements of proteins, fats and carbohydrates. The manner in which these molecules come together to form a living organism is dictated by the organism’s DNA and/or RNA. DNA, RNA and proteins are by far the most important components of a living organism, carrying out virtually every function in a cell. Fats and carbohydrates are generally simpler molecules and play critical, but subordinate roles in cells.
DNA and RNA are made of five nucleotides – adenine, thymine, cytosine, guanine and uracil. They act as a cell’s “mission control,” orchestrating the cell’s activities. All proteins are made of 20 amino acids. They are the workhorse of the cell – the nails, wood, steel beams and machinery that make the cell run. It is the order of amino acids in a protein that determine its shape and, therefore what it does. This order and shape of proteins is itself dictated by the cell’s DNA, which builds proteins through the use of RNA.
So, in short, life is made up of complex arrangements of; (i) the five nucleotides – adenine, thymine, cytosine, guanine and uracil, arranged into the spiraling double helixes of DNA and RNA; (ii) the twenty amino acids that form all proteins, including enzymes and the other 100,000 or so proteins in a complex organism’s body; (iii) carbohydrates, which include sugars and starches and are much simpler elements than proteins or DNA or RNA and act as an energy source for cells; and (iv) fats, also called lipids, which are important as an energy source and in constructing cell membranes.
The simplest cells are prokaryotic cells. They exist today principally as bacteria. Stromatolites and other fossils from all over the planet suggest that, for the first billion years of life on earth, all life was simple, one-celled prokaryotic life. These cells consisted of a fatty cell membrane, like a balloon skin, with DNA/RNA, proteins, fats and carbohydrates on the inside. They had no nucleus. Cells with a nucleus, called eukaryotic cells (which make up virtually all multi-cellular organisms) are much larger and more complex that prokaryotic cells and likely resulted from the early combining of prokaryotic cells into colonies, as single celled organisms still do today.
So, can such a cell come into existence in the conditions that existed on early Earth without the intervention of God, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Yahweh or any other divine/magic being? Or is such an event is so unlikely that it makes more sense to invoke divine intervention by a deity? Beginning in the 1950s, scientists started to seriously look at this question. They began to mimic the conditions on the early Earth in the laboratory to see whether some kind of “life-fairy” was necessary to get things started.
In 1952, as the country was debating adding “under God” to the Pledge of allegiance, Stanley Miller ran what must be one of the most elegant experiments in history, given the small cost involved and the return he got on his investment. He basically set up an apparatus in his laboratory and filled it with water and an atmosphere reflecting that of the Earth of 4 billion years ago. He then subjected this “mini Earth” to periodic heating and cooling, electric sparks to mimic lightning and light. He let his experiment run for a few weeks and then checked the apparatus to see what happened.
The result was amazing. All 20 of the amino acids that form the building blocks of all life on Earth had self assembled in his “mini Earth.” The experiment was groundbreaking because it suggested that, under the perfectly natural conditions of the early Earth, the building blocks of life can and will self-assemble. Indeed, it now seems that major volcanic eruptions 4 billion years ago would have created an even more diverse atmosphere than the one Miller used. When these were added to the mix in subsequent experiments, and the conditions of the experiments were modified to more closely resemble our increasing knowledge of the primitive Earth, they have resulted in the creation of all five nucleotides, all twenty amino acids and basic fatty membranes and various carbohydrates.
That is to say, with no magic or divine intervention, all life’s building blocks will self-assemble. There is a natural tendency in simple molecules to coalesce into more complex molecules under the natural conditions that likely existed four billion years ago on Earth. But nails, wood, wiring and bricks a house do not make. Even the simplest life requires these building blocks to be arranged in very, very complex ways. In various however, scientists have been able to create a wide range of cell-like structures of increasing complexity on the road toward a simple self-replicating organism. These creations are called protobionts or coacervates and if you “you tube” or google these terms, you will see many examples.
This is still a far cry from a cell, but the important thing is that the experiments uniformly demonstrate that organic molecules have a natural tendency to clump together in increasingly complex forms under early Earth-like conditions. They are not being pushed into doing something “against their will”.
Where it gets really suggestive is that scientists have been able to isolate what they believe to be some of the most primitive genes on Earth, by comparing the DNA of two organisms whose last common ancestor lived soon after the formation of the Earth. For such genes to be common to both such organisms, they must be very, very old. When these ancient genes produce amino acids, they are rich in the amino acids most common in the Stanley Miller and similar experiments! This suggests that these experiments do indeed reflect early Earth conditions and that life itself did arise under such conditions.
The other important factor is that these impressive results have been achieved in laboratories over small periods of time. Imagine the whole Earth as the “Petri dish” and hundreds of millions of years as the timescale. Simple life gradually emerging from such a “soup” does not seem at all impossible and certainly not incredible enough that we in the USA have to give up and call the remaining gap in knowledge “God,” while our Indian colleagues do the same and attribute it all to the Lord Brahma.
Scientists are approaching it from the other side too, gradually stripping away at prokaryotic cells to see how stripped down and simple they have to become for life to “stop.” Viruses are close to the edge in this respect. A virus is little more than DNA or RNA and protein.
Meanwhile others continue to build up from coacervates and protobionts. The gap is narrowing as our knowledge continues its inexorable march. The Christian sky-fairy is being pinched out! There’s not a lot of room left for him now. The pincers of science are closing in from both sides, squeezing out religion and ignorance. Soon, the two sides of the pincer will meet and this unnecessary holdover from 2,000 years ago will have to flutter off and find another dark corner to settle in, where the penetrating light of science and knowledge has not yet shone. The believers’ mind remains perhaps the most reliable.
*stick fingers in ears*
LALALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING....
=P
tl;dr
You say: "That is to say, with no magic or divine intervention, all life’s building blocks will self-assemble." Where did the building blocks come from? At some point, you're going to have to accept, without scientific evidence (on faith?), that something came from nothing.
"He basically set up an apparatus in his laboratory and filled it with water and an atmosphere reflecting that of the Earth of 4 billion years ago. He then subjected this “mini Earth” to periodic heating and cooling, electric sparks to mimic lightning and light. He let his experiment run for a few weeks and then checked the apparatus to see what happened.
The result was amazing. All 20 of the amino acids that form the building blocks of all life on Earth had self assembled in his “mini Earth.”
Well, that wasn't certainly intelligent of him to do that. Great design.
Really?!?!?!? You believe in Evolution...sometimes called "Darwinism". Explain to my why everything has stopped "EVOLVING". If humans came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys? As funny as you think it is that I believe in God, I am absolutely rolling on the floor that you believe it all started with a fish out water.
No you don't. All atoms more complex than hydroben, helium and lithium were created in stars that later exploded as supernovas. Those 3 elements were generated in th big bang. The law of the conservation of mass-energy means that something can come from nothing provided the overall energy of the system is zero. Quantum fluctuations in a vacuume are proof of this. Our universe may be one of many in a multiverse and/or may expand and contract in an infinite cycle of big bangs and big crunches.
But, there is no need to invoke a Greco-Roman sky-god dreamed up in a Palastnian slum to answer these complex questions.
JA, We know what happened from a few microseconds of the Big Bang, before that we don't know, so why do you jump to the conclusion that a god did it? We don't know does not equal a god did it?
@ I believe. It hasn't stopped. Evolution is going on all around you. Ever heard of antibiotic resistent drugs? New bredds of dog? Larger fruit?
Second, man did not descend from monkeys. Man and monkeys share a common long extinct ancestor.
@Just Asking – so who designed your designer?
So what. Evolution is still occurring. An obvious example is the flu virus.
Who designed my designer-beats the hell out of me. But it is a whole lot easier for me to believe that there is a super natural force that we can't explain than a natural force that is, in fact, contrary to laws of nature, but is still considered natural (huh?) (i.e. something from nothing).
Don't forget that your whatever designed you designer would have need a designer as well, and so forth and so on for infinity designers.
Colin, you're a biologist or something aren't you? I'm just asking because I'm a nitpicker about physics. Small errors exist in your post concerning atoms but only a nitpicking geek like me would be bothered by it.
For example, not all of those atoms were created in the Big Bang, some were created in the normal stellar fusion process as well in the usual way with supernovas. There are also other ways these atoms can arise, such as in scientific equipment or in extreme physical events of myriad natures.
Those atoms are not locked into one configuration. They can be torn apart and reassembled into other atoms and other particles/wavicles under relevant conditions.
I'm just being a d1ck. Don't mind me. Go back to whatever you were doing. Thanks for reading.
Simply put ...
Christianity is the belief that a god impregnated a virgin with himself, to give birth to himself, so he could sacrifice himself to himself to forgive the "original sin" of a couple we now all know never existed.
Atheism is the belief that the above belief is fvcking stupid
Couldn't have said it better myself -:)
Colin you couldn't have said it better but I am confident you could have taken longer.
and everything you said, is true for pro phat Mohammad, HE, pubh, impregnated his mother, to give birth to truth absolute his Harami brother, secular s , 360*
Bill, you say far too much.
if i had a nickel for everytime some nutcase erroneously invoked the end of times over the fast 2000 years, i would be a very wealthy individual.
@ISLAM FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN CONSTI TUTION.. This is not the crosswords section of the daily paper..
Learn meanings of words, one uses to convey his thoughts, than to be a hindu ignorant like an owl.
Beware the hindoo curry rice favor with the islam fareed. Cups of wroth and lathe and plaster shape the walls behind the cushions you see around you.
Chili has more flavorful bean mastication. The seasonings of relative peace have no flag to fly above islamabad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0-04VDrCbM
That was hilarious.
I have a feeling these followers are going to be pretty surprised when they die and then are reincarnated as sea turtles doomed to live another 200 years on the earth they thought would just disappear.
I'd rather believe in the Jesus BS than reincarnation.
I'd rather believe in all the Jesus BS than reincarnation.
you're repeating yourself ...
Duly noted.
truth absolute, Sharia has banned female citizens from passing gas.
slam, boom, in waiting.
He did it to himself, and he deserves what he gets! Subjecting all of us to his nutty beliefs via news, internet, and bus ads was just too much! The end of the world will come when we destroy it, or when mother nature (including space) has had quite enough of us. Not when your imaginary god feels like it.
Amen my brutha! And I'd like to add a bit Hallelujah!!!
Atheism is the faith that a bolt of lightning once hit a mud puddle, and thereby assembled the all the complexities of the DNA molecule. Yea, sure.
Really? Perhaps you can point me to a science journal that says that.
The only tome I know that makes ridiculuous claims about man arising magically from dust is the Bible.
As opposed to believing that the whole thing was assembled in 6 days about 6,000 years ago. Yeah, sure.
Heh-heh, Rob Schneider, derp dee derp! Derp dee derpittee derpee derp! Until one day, a derpa derpa durba derp! Derp dee derp, - da teetley tum! From the creators of - DER - and - TUM TA TI.TTALY TUM TERPA DERP, Rob Schneider is - DA DERP DEE DERP DA TEETLEY DERPEE DERPEE DUMB. Rated PG-13
I'll play troll...
LET's Religiosity Law #7 – If you think the bible is historical fact of the creation of the Universe, Earth or Mankind and believe without a doubt that some Jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat of his flesh, drink of his blood, and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master; so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a sinful woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree! Yea sure…
The specific processes involved in abiogenesis are still being actively investigated. That is the beauty of science, it is constantly being challenged and refined, a method whose veracity I trust a million times more than whatever absurd mythological explanation you have to offer...
What snappy preplanned copy/paste do you have for those that don't believe that the Bible is 100% historical fact?
Begone, troll. I hear yo mamma callin.
This copypasta needs moar sauce.
oh ye of little faith.
Jesus, you're ignorant.
Go on and tell us how everything has to have a beginning, an origin and a creator.. and that your god created it.. Then go ahead and ignore the most obvious question.. "If everything has to have a creator, who created God?" I know I know.. he is god and he has just always been around and he doesn't need a creator... change the rules to fit your fantasy.
No, it's not. Which would be obvious if you had any idea what you were talking about.
Joh: Does your Mommy know you're using her computer? Should you not be getting back to your homework now?
John only reads books from the Christian Book Store.
Dyslexic: Apparently and they probably have three words per page with pretty pictures.
•A [person's] ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. [We] would indeed be in a poor way if [we] had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death - Albert Einstein
Gary commits an appeal to authority. Who cares if Albert said it. If you agree with the statement then putting up who said it was irrelevant.
"The internet is a place of always-truthful information." – Abraham Lincoln
Post by Gary S. contains an appropriate citation of the author and is relevant to the article subject matter.
Earlier Fallacy Spotting 101 post is a fake.
http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
Saloth Sar was the eighth of nine children and the second of three sons to Pen Saloth and Sok Nem. The family was living in a small fishing village during the French colonialism of the area.[14] Pen Saloth was a rice farmer who owned 12 hectares of land and the family was considered moderately wealthy by the day's standards. The family had already entered mainstream society by the time Sar was born.[17]
In 1935, Sar left Prek Sbauv to attend school. He lived with his cousin, a woman who was, a member of the Royal Ballet.[18] In 1926 she bore King Monivong's son.[19] She was given an official tiitle Sar stayed with her household until 1942. His sister Roeung was a concubine of King Monivong, so through the two women, he often had cause to visit the royal palace.[20] In 1947, he gained admission to the exclusive Lycée Sisowath. After gaining admission to technical school he was awarded a scholarship to Paris.
He later changed his name to Pol Pot.
@Bill Deacon
You forgot one little detail –
The school he attended for 8 years was a Catholic School in Phnom Penh.
there was a gay man who traveled his bronze age country with 12 other men. This gay man and his likely group of lads told people many stories and performed a few con tricks. His name was Jesus.
The citation is not in question, it is the purpose of putting it there. Being said by Al Einstien doesn't make the statement any better if it was said by Heavensent, Chad or Reailty.
And there is no "fake" or "real" Fallacy Spotting. It's username that has no owner.
Gary still performed an appeal to authority and is no different from the religious quoting from the Bible and putting that Luke said it as if that makes it more of a valued statement.
At least get your time periods correct dog, not to mention your ignorance on certain people's se xual orientations.
Doesn't matter Doc. For the purposes of Gary's statement, I submit that all the conditions of Einstein's proposal were present yet failed to yield the indicated result. So, unless you are prepared to make the case that Catholic grade school creates monsters, I conclude Albert was wrong.
Sorry Camus, Jesus was likely gay.
Bill, you actually think Albert was wrong based on one dictator? If anything, Pol Pot was introduced to plenty of religion, and it didn't do him any good, apparently.
Post by Gary S. contains an appropriate citation of the author and is relevant to the article subject matter.
First Fallacy Spotting 101 post in this thread is a fake, and the liar who did it lacks the guts to admit it. What a coward.
http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
Stalin – educated in a strict Catholic school
Pol Pot -educated by Catholic school
Hitler and his staff- educated by Catholic school
Mussolini – educated by Catholic school
All South American dictators – educated by Catholic school
-
"Among the many Nazi leaders who were Roman Catholics, in addition to Adolf Hitler, were Josef Goebbels, Heinrich Himmler, Reinhard Heydrich, Heinrich Müllerv and Rudolf Hoess, (not to be confused with Hitler's Deputy Fuëhrer and secretary, Rudolf Hess). Hermann Goering, on the other hand, had mixed Catholic – Protestant parentage, while Rudolf Hess, Martin Bormann, Albert Speer, and Adolf Eichmann had Protestant backgrounds. Not one of the top Nazi leaders was raised in a liberal or atheistic family. "
-
These lists are woefully incomplete. Basically, every place where the RCC has influence, it has invariably used that power to install monstrous murderers in positions of power.
Second Fallacy Spotting 101 post in this thread is a fake, and the liar who did it lacks the guts to admit it. What a coward.
Being a quote from Al doesn't make it more important. The poster could have said virtually the same thing and would be fine. He only chosen ol Al because he thought it would carry some weight.
http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
Sorry Jwg, you are likely gay and stupid.
Gay because of your focus on who you think is gay and stupid because you do not have any evidence that points to any se xual orientation for him.
sam, the premise wasn't that morality comes from the correct amount of religion. It was that the proper social conditions imbued morality without the aid of religion. Unless you want to make the case that his eight years of Catholic education counteracted his rather privileged upbringing, I don't think poor Albert has much of a case. Do you really need other examples?
This is fun:
Andreas named his first-born son after himself. Abandoned by his father at a young age, the boy grew up with his mother's family in a rural farming town. His mother was called Assa (1904–1970), an ethnic Lugbara and a traditional herbalist who treated members of royalty, among others. The boy joined an Islamic school in Bombo in 1941. After a few years, he left school with nothing more than a fourth grade English-language education and did odd jobs before being recruited to the army
Idi Amin
Post by Gary S. contains an appropriate citation of the author and is relevant to the article subject matter.
First Fallacy Spotting 101 post in this thread is a fake, and the liar who did it lacks the guts to admit it. What a coward.
http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
Second Fallacy Spotting 101 post in this thread is a liar, and a fake who lacks the guts to admit it. What a coward.
Being a quote from Al doesn't make it more important. The poster could have said virtually the same thing and would be fine. He only chosen ol Al because he thought it would carry some weight.
http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
Don't play dumb, Bill. The point is this: with or without religion, those people would still have been sociopathic, deranged murderers. That does not negate the idea that religion is not required to develop morality. You can try all you like to pretzel logic your way out of that; you're only going to look sillier.
"may be foundering" ??
Nice proofreading folks.
Does this help?
foun·der
verb (used without object)
1.(of a ship, boat, etc.) to fill with water and sink.
2.to fall or sink down, as buildings, ground, etc.: Built on a former lake bed, the building has foundered nearly ten feet.
3.to become wrecked; fail utterly: The project foundered because public support was lacking.
4.to stumble, break down, or go lame, as a horse: His mount foundered on the rocky path.
fred, have you ever used a dictionary? You know, that big book with all the words in it in alphabetical order with their definitions? Try it some time.
Maybe...?
Flounder are a group of flatfish species. They are demersal fish found at the bottom of coastal lagoons and estuaries of the Northern Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
As per usual Bill Deacon – the idiot – can't understand the original poster's intent on proof-reading.
-The poster wanted to cleverly use this definition.
floun·der
1 [floun-der]
verb (used without object)
1.
to struggle with stumbling or plunging movements (usually followed by about, along, on, through, etc.): He saw the child floundering about in the water.
2.
to struggle clumsily or helplessly: He floundered helplessly on the first day of his new job.
Bill the Fvcking retard can't even get the gist.
"foundering" is the correct word.
Fre61924.... where'd you go? to much knowledge for you?
Brad, it's "too," not "to." Shit, can't anybody on this blog write worth a damn?
I heard Sara say the limitations of the board require us to comprehend the words you use, not the ones you wish you had.
So yeah, I suppose retard is the correct word but I suppose the object is in your mirror answer
@Answer
No one intended to use "floundering" and its use certainly would not have been clever.
The definition of "foundering" is a much better fit, as his radio station has failed partly due to setbacks related to false prophecies and poor financial management.
You should also learn when hyphens are appropriate.
Can't spell or conjugate? Might be time to find a magisterium for those Bible interpretations
Why didn't god provide a guide that needs so much interpreting? Wouldn't he have know the limitations in reading comprehension of the beings he is said to have created?
Smells like "secret decoder ring" rot to me.
*did*
@Bill
UHHHHHH, I THINK YOU MEANT "MAGIC-TARIAN" DUDE.
LP: yup. yup. Sleight of hand all the way.
Your question presumes that no on understands Holy Scripture which is not the case. Granted, various denominations emphasis certain portions out of whatever portion of the faith they lean towards, but the principle content is not disputed.
Not disputed? What a bald-faced liar you are to be sure. It has been disputed since it was created. Lying sack of sht.
Anyone who says that the bible claims are not disputed is either dishonest or very ignorant.
You confuse disbelief with dispute. You may disbelieve it but it says what it says.
Bill Deacon is either a poe or one of the most evil people to post here I have ever seen.
He made good money on the end of the world thing.
But, all religions do that.
Yep, I need to get into the end-times preaching business.
GLORY BE TO GOD.... NOW EVERYONE SEND ME A QUARTER!!!
@Brad
I hope you're not really going to just ask for a quarter.
You're forgetting the postage cost – if your goal is only through snail mail.
I'm an atheist that seems to have a different take on things. I see a difference between needing or wanting it. If you want it because it makes you feel good, gives you a reason to help others out, etc. That's pretty awesome and I'd probably make something for your bake sale or whatever even if it doesn't effect me in the least.
If you need it though, I'd place that into some sort of paranoia depending on how far you take it. If you feel that if you don't do something you're going to hell, think that everyone needs to believe that exact same thing as you or they're wrong, overall defining your life by that single trait etc. That's not cool and is one of the contributing reasons that this country isn't doing so hot right now. I've got friends that are Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, etc. Just because we don't think the same way is no reason to flat out dislike them because of it.
Living by truth absolute GOD, essence of humanity is of heaven, and to live by hindu atheism, criminal self center ism is not of human, but a sure way to hell, on earth and after life. take you pick. every one has a choice.
slam, boom. Have, a, boom. Good, riddance.
Brian, your lack of integrity towards the rest of humanity is clear. You do not care if they take us all to the ovens. Okay.
hindu atheist, ignorant self centered deny truth of life, in denial of truth absolute GOD and follow hindu animals, ignorant self centered by nature as their gods.
Word ANIMAL.
An or Ann is a word and a letter by Latin, Hebrew and Arabic besides many other languages. meaning according to, or 20/20
Vowel E identifies relationship in essence of a noun and adjective.
Vowel i represents subordinated to.
Latter M represents essence of choice.
Vowel A represents in existence according to intentions.
Letter L means to a limit.
Word animal means according to self choice, in defiance of truth absolute. A secular, self centered, or an atheist. a criminal by intention. also known a malo in Latin, meanings, a secular, self centered. in denial of truth absolute GOD by nature.
Meanings of word NUN.
Nun is a word and a letter by Latin, Hebrew and Arabic standard.
N-U––N
Letter N represents intention by heart and mind in truth absolute.
Letter U identifies path, also known as RAH in truth absolute to reach results in truth absolute.
Second letter N identifies accomplishment or establishment of a noun in its true fundamentals, or truth absolute.
Every function of every one is required to be by NUN to achieve its intended form, proven by science and a fundamental commandment of truth absolute for human to follow to have peace, Islam in life and hereafter.
What medication were you supposed to take today that you forgot? Welcome on board the crazy train, population = you.
Do you have any more of whatever it is you've been smoking?
you spelled ISLAM wrong.... it's spelled....... D. U. M. B.
Hard to find so much nonsense and craziness in just one post, congratulations on winning the crazy award of the year!